Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
Thank you to everyone who took the time to make suggestions. I seem to have fixed the problem, but I can't pinpoint exactly which command or configuration change worked the magic. As you suggested, I made sure that portfast was on, port channel was off, and that the ports were not set to trunk and the problem still persisted. The next step I took was to make sure the ports broadcast limit was at 100%(set port broadcast mod_num/port_num threshold[%]). By default this should have, and apparently was, already set to 100%. But after I manually typed in the command the problem went away. And the real mindtwister is that the problem went away on ALL of the affected Macs in that VLAN(including on an upstream switch), not only the Mac on the interface I had specified. I'm guessing that something must have propagated all the way to the RSM. When the Macs boot up now they still get a window that says "Your AppleTalk network has become available". But it's just an FYI message. It doesn't require you to go into the AppleTalk control panel. Thank you for taking the time to write back, Dave Hi again, A few last points before I sign off for the night: 1) You do indeed have to ask your users to pay attention to the error message and do as it says (open and close the Control Panel). The person who told me it was just an FYI message was forgetting the reality of working with AppleTalk. (It was my husband, who was actually one of the creators of AppleTalk. He tends to forget bad things about it. Just kidding.) 2) The Apple white paper is indeed very vague about a real solution to the problem. ;-) But the solution is that you have to tweak the spanning tree parameters so that the switch ports don't take so long to start forwarding packets. Bottom line: the router's (RSM's) packets aren't getting through in time to the end nodes so they think they are on an isolated network. Then when they finally hear from the router, they put up that annoying message. Another solution would be to upgrade to Mac OS X, it sounds like?! ;-] 3) Having multiple seed routers is not a problem. (Even if you had multiple seed routers, I mean, it wouldn't be a problem. Multiple seed routers is a good thing.) Good luck! By the way, thank-you for buying my book. I hope you like it. Talk to you later, Priscilla At 06:49 PM 10/16/00, Dave Redwood wrote: Thanks to everyone who sent a response. I'm sorry I didn't give more details when I wrote last night; I think I was just on the verge of going to sleep. The exact message was: "Your AppleTalk network has become available. To use the network, open the AppleTalk control panel, then close it. " So the users actually have to open the control panel in order to access other AppleTalk devices(even if they are in the same VLAN or segment). And no zones are displayed until after the control panel is opened and then closed. I've tried locking down the ports to all possible combinations of 10/100 half/full, setting the ports of the affected machines to portfast/regular STP implementations, and the problem still lingers. The only thing I have noticed in the last 24hrs is that the machines running OS-X beta aren't having the problem, those running OS9 and earlier are) We don't have multiple seed routers(but thx for suggesting it Chris!). Here's our layout: (multiple mac clients G3/G4/etc...) | | 100/full (But i've tried all possible combinations) | | Catalyst 5500a(VLAN 33) | | GigE-net | | Catalyst 5500b(VLAN 33) | | GigE-net | | Catalyst 5500c w/RSM ISL And the Apple TIL mentions this exact issue. However a clear solution isn't provided. But thank you for noting it(Priscilla) and finding the link for me(Daniel) it definitely is worth the read. Well, I think I'm stuck. But I'll keep working on the problem and let you know if I find a solution. Thank you *all*(Ian, Daniel, Chris and Priscilla) for taking the time to make the suggestions P.S.: Priscilla, I just started reading TDND and am loving it. I'm honored(I would try to find a more subtle word, but it's true) to have had your input on this issue. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
Did you verify you're at Open Transport 2.06? Earlier versions of OT (the ones shipping with OS 9)included a bug that could cause this problem. If you've enabled portfast and updated to 2.06 you should be OK. -Original Message- From: Dave Redwood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 9:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem Thanks to everyone who sent a response. I'm sorry I didn't give more details when I wrote last night; I think I was just on the verge of going to sleep. The exact message was: "Your AppleTalk network has become available. To use the network, open the AppleTalk control panel, then close it. " So the users actually have to open the control panel in order to access other AppleTalk devices(even if they are in the same VLAN or segment). And no zones are displayed until after the control panel is opened and then closed. I've tried locking down the ports to all possible combinations of 10/100 half/full, setting the ports of the affected machines to portfast/regular STP implementations, and the problem still lingers. The only thing I have noticed in the last 24hrs is that the machines running OS-X beta aren't having the problem, those running OS9 and earlier are) We don't have multiple seed routers(but thx for suggesting it Chris!). Here's our layout: (multiple mac clients G3/G4/etc...) | | 100/full (But i've tried all possible combinations) | | Catalyst 5500b(VLAN 33) | | FDDI | | Catalyst 5500b(VLAN 33) | | FDDI | | Catalyst 5500c w/RSM ISL And the Apple TIL mentions this exact issue. However a clear solution isn't provided. But thank you for noting it(Priscilla) and finding the link for me(Daniel) it definitely is worth the read. Well, I think I'm stuck. But I'll keep working on the problem and let you know if I find a solution. Thank you *all*(Ian, Daniel, Chris and Priscilla) for taking the time to make the suggestions P.S.: Priscilla, I just started reading TDND and am loving it. I'm honored(I would try to find a more subtle word, but it's true) to have had your input on this issue. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
Well, turning on portfast would have been my method of troubleshooting also. The other thought that comes to mind is that maybe the EtherTalk devices can't hear from their router quickly enough because the switch ports don't enter forwarding mode soon enough. An EtherTalk device sends a ZIPGetNetInfo packet to find its router when it boots. It sends this packet a few times. Perhaps the response takes a long time, causing the device to think it's not on an AppleTalk internetwork to start with. Then when it finally gets a response, it displays the message about the AppleTalk connection becoming available. I think we would need more info on your topology to troubleshoot this. Where is the router? Is it far away, across many switches? There used to be an article on this topic at Apple's site, but I can't find it anymore. But maybe you can search for help there. Good luck! Priscilla At 11:02 PM 10/15/00, Dave Redwood wrote: Good evening everyone. Well, I'm here on my Sunday night trying to figure out a problem I'm having with some of the newer PowerMacintoshG4's and their interactions with a Catalyst 5500. For some reason the Macs always come up without their AppleTalk(EtherTalk) connection up as it was before a restart. A message that basically reads, "your appletalk connection has become available, you must open your appletalk control panel and close it again in order to activate the connection". So, I thought that maybe, possibly, it could be a STP issue on the Catalyst so I set it to port fast... the problem still occurrs. So while I think the problem is with the MacOS I was curious if anyone has run into the same problem and if they knew of a solution... I took a look around CCO and the closest thing I could find was that I should, perhaps, upgrade the software on my supervisor engine... But I'd rather not just jump into that one. :-) Hope everyone had a good weekend, Dave CCNA _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
I have seen this once in the past. It was caused by multiple seed routers (one Unix box and one Mac) on the same segment. IP connectivity was fine, but AppleTalk would come and go. Chris Lemagie Systems Engineer Cisco Systems Seattle Commercial Region (425) 468-0959 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cisco.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Priscilla Oppenheimer Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:35 PM To: Dave Redwood; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem Well, turning on portfast would have been my method of troubleshooting also. The other thought that comes to mind is that maybe the EtherTalk devices can't hear from their router quickly enough because the switch ports don't enter forwarding mode soon enough. An EtherTalk device sends a ZIPGetNetInfo packet to find its router when it boots. It sends this packet a few times. Perhaps the response takes a long time, causing the device to think it's not on an AppleTalk internetwork to start with. Then when it finally gets a response, it displays the message about the AppleTalk connection becoming available. I think we would need more info on your topology to troubleshoot this. Where is the router? Is it far away, across many switches? There used to be an article on this topic at Apple's site, but I can't find it anymore. But maybe you can search for help there. Good luck! Priscilla At 11:02 PM 10/15/00, Dave Redwood wrote: Good evening everyone. Well, I'm here on my Sunday night trying to figure out a problem I'm having with some of the newer PowerMacintoshG4's and their interactions with a Catalyst 5500. For some reason the Macs always come up without their AppleTalk(EtherTalk) connection up as it was before a restart. A message that basically reads, "your appletalk connection has become available, you must open your appletalk control panel and close it again in order to activate the connection". So, I thought that maybe, possibly, it could be a STP issue on the Catalyst so I set it to port fast... the problem still occurrs. So while I think the problem is with the MacOS I was curious if anyone has run into the same problem and if they knew of a solution... I took a look around CCO and the closest thing I could find was that I should, perhaps, upgrade the software on my supervisor engine... But I'd rather not just jump into that one. :-) Hope everyone had a good weekend, Dave CCNA _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n30922 May be the article to which Priscilla was referring. -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 2:35 PM To: Dave Redwood; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem Well, turning on portfast would have been my method of troubleshooting also. The other thought that comes to mind is that maybe the EtherTalk devices can't hear from their router quickly enough because the switch ports don't enter forwarding mode soon enough. An EtherTalk device sends a ZIPGetNetInfo packet to find its router when it boots. It sends this packet a few times. Perhaps the response takes a long time, causing the device to think it's not on an AppleTalk internetwork to start with. Then when it finally gets a response, it displays the message about the AppleTalk connection becoming available. I think we would need more info on your topology to troubleshoot this. Where is the router? Is it far away, across many switches? There used to be an article on this topic at Apple's site, but I can't find it anymore. But maybe you can search for help there. Good luck! Priscilla At 11:02 PM 10/15/00, Dave Redwood wrote: Good evening everyone. Well, I'm here on my Sunday night trying to figure out a problem I'm having with some of the newer PowerMacintoshG4's and their interactions with a Catalyst 5500. For some reason the Macs always come up without their AppleTalk(EtherTalk) connection up as it was before a restart. A message that basically reads, "your appletalk connection has become available, you must open your appletalk control panel and close it again in order to activate the connection". So, I thought that maybe, possibly, it could be a STP issue on the Catalyst so I set it to port fast... the problem still occurrs. So while I think the problem is with the MacOS I was curious if anyone has run into the same problem and if they knew of a solution... I took a look around CCO and the closest thing I could find was that I should, perhaps, upgrade the software on my supervisor engine... But I'd rather not just jump into that one. :-) Hope everyone had a good weekend, _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
Multiple AppleTalk seed routers shouldn't be a problem, unless one of them is misconfigured. If they both agree on the cable range and zone name(s), then it doesn't matter if there's more than one seed router. A cisco router would make sure they both agreed. If the routers are UNIX or Mac software routers, as you mentioned, Chris, then they could both come up and cause a problem if one were misconfigured. I think the problem that this fellow is having is that the Macs don't hear from the router when they first start up, so they decide that they are on an isolated network and use a network number from the special range. Then they hear evidence of a router and have to change their network number to the correct number as advertised by the router. They hear evidence of a router because they finally get a response to ZIPGetNetInfo or they finally hear an RTMP. This shouldn't cause a real problem, according to an "expert" that I asked. He said the message the users see if FYI. They don't have to do anything. (I would check the actual wording of the message.) Good luck. Let us know what you find out! Thanks. Priscilla At 01:33 PM 10/16/00, Chris Lemagie wrote: I have seen this once in the past. It was caused by multiple seed routers (one Unix box and one Mac) on the same segment. IP connectivity was fine, but AppleTalk would come and go. Chris Lemagie Systems Engineer Cisco Systems Seattle Commercial Region (425) 468-0959 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cisco.com/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Priscilla Oppenheimer Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:35 PM To: Dave Redwood; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem Well, turning on portfast would have been my method of troubleshooting also. The other thought that comes to mind is that maybe the EtherTalk devices can't hear from their router quickly enough because the switch ports don't enter forwarding mode soon enough. An EtherTalk device sends a ZIPGetNetInfo packet to find its router when it boots. It sends this packet a few times. Perhaps the response takes a long time, causing the device to think it's not on an AppleTalk internetwork to start with. Then when it finally gets a response, it displays the message about the AppleTalk connection becoming available. I think we would need more info on your topology to troubleshoot this. Where is the router? Is it far away, across many switches? There used to be an article on this topic at Apple's site, but I can't find it anymore. But maybe you can search for help there. Good luck! Priscilla At 11:02 PM 10/15/00, Dave Redwood wrote: Good evening everyone. Well, I'm here on my Sunday night trying to figure out a problem I'm having with some of the newer PowerMacintoshG4's and their interactions with a Catalyst 5500. For some reason the Macs always come up without their AppleTalk(EtherTalk) connection up as it was before a restart. A message that basically reads, "your appletalk connection has become available, you must open your appletalk control panel and close it again in order to activate the connection". So, I thought that maybe, possibly, it could be a STP issue on the Catalyst so I set it to port fast... the problem still occurrs. So while I think the problem is with the MacOS I was curious if anyone has run into the same problem and if they knew of a solution... I took a look around CCO and the closest thing I could find was that I should, perhaps, upgrade the software on my supervisor engine... But I'd rather not just jump into that one. :-) Hope everyone had a good weekend, Dave CCNA _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
That's the one. Thanks. It's a very well-written article, worth reading even if you don't have Macs. The gist of the problem is that the new Macs are too fast (;-) and you need to speed up spanning-tree convergence to accommodate AppleTalk running on them. Priscilla At 03:54 PM 10/16/00, Daniel Cotts wrote: http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n30922 May be the article to which Priscilla was referring. -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 2:35 PM To: Dave Redwood; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem Well, turning on portfast would have been my method of troubleshooting also. The other thought that comes to mind is that maybe the EtherTalk devices can't hear from their router quickly enough because the switch ports don't enter forwarding mode soon enough. An EtherTalk device sends a ZIPGetNetInfo packet to find its router when it boots. It sends this packet a few times. Perhaps the response takes a long time, causing the device to think it's not on an AppleTalk internetwork to start with. Then when it finally gets a response, it displays the message about the AppleTalk connection becoming available. I think we would need more info on your topology to troubleshoot this. Where is the router? Is it far away, across many switches? There used to be an article on this topic at Apple's site, but I can't find it anymore. But maybe you can search for help there. Good luck! Priscilla At 11:02 PM 10/15/00, Dave Redwood wrote: Good evening everyone. Well, I'm here on my Sunday night trying to figure out a problem I'm having with some of the newer PowerMacintoshG4's and their interactions with a Catalyst 5500. For some reason the Macs always come up without their AppleTalk(EtherTalk) connection up as it was before a restart. A message that basically reads, "your appletalk connection has become available, you must open your appletalk control panel and close it again in order to activate the connection". So, I thought that maybe, possibly, it could be a STP issue on the Catalyst so I set it to port fast... the problem still occurrs. So while I think the problem is with the MacOS I was curious if anyone has run into the same problem and if they knew of a solution... I took a look around CCO and the closest thing I could find was that I should, perhaps, upgrade the software on my supervisor engine... But I'd rather not just jump into that one. :-) Hope everyone had a good weekend, _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
I had done a lot of networking with Macs in the past - seems G3s had the same problem you are running into. Oftentimes enabling portfast will resolve the issue, but not always. I also found that switch platform doesn't matter 29xx, 35xx, 55xx, 65xx, etc.. I always found that locking down the port speed to 10 the the duplex to half will almost always solve the issue. The problem is, many Mac users do graphics and need to do large file transfers. Good Luck... _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
Thanks to everyone who sent a response. I'm sorry I didn't give more details when I wrote last night; I think I was just on the verge of going to sleep. The exact message was: "Your AppleTalk network has become available. To use the network, open the AppleTalk control panel, then close it. " So the users actually have to open the control panel in order to access other AppleTalk devices(even if they are in the same VLAN or segment). And no zones are displayed until after the control panel is opened and then closed. I've tried locking down the ports to all possible combinations of 10/100 half/full, setting the ports of the affected machines to portfast/regular STP implementations, and the problem still lingers. The only thing I have noticed in the last 24hrs is that the machines running OS-X beta aren't having the problem, those running OS9 and earlier are) We don't have multiple seed routers(but thx for suggesting it Chris!). Here's our layout: (multiple mac clients G3/G4/etc...) | | 100/full (But i've tried all possible combinations) | | Catalyst 5500b(VLAN 33) | | FDDI | | Catalyst 5500b(VLAN 33) | | FDDI | | Catalyst 5500c w/RSM ISL And the Apple TIL mentions this exact issue. However a clear solution isn't provided. But thank you for noting it(Priscilla) and finding the link for me(Daniel) it definitely is worth the read. Well, I think I'm stuck. But I'll keep working on the problem and let you know if I find a solution. Thank you *all*(Ian, Daniel, Chris and Priscilla) for taking the time to make the suggestions P.S.: Priscilla, I just started reading TDND and am loving it. I'm honored(I would try to find a more subtle word, but it's true) to have had your input on this issue. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: appletalk on catalyst 5500 problem
Hi again, A few last points before I sign off for the night: 1) You do indeed have to ask your users to pay attention to the error message and do as it says (open and close the Control Panel). The person who told me it was just an FYI message was forgetting the reality of working with AppleTalk. (It was my husband, who was actually one of the creators of AppleTalk. He tends to forget bad things about it. Just kidding.) 2) The Apple white paper is indeed very vague about a real solution to the problem. ;-) But the solution is that you have to tweak the spanning tree parameters so that the switch ports don't take so long to start forwarding packets. Bottom line: the router's (RSM's) packets aren't getting through in time to the end nodes so they think they are on an isolated network. Then when they finally hear from the router, they put up that annoying message. Another solution would be to upgrade to Mac OS X, it sounds like?! ;-] 3) Having multiple seed routers is not a problem. (Even if you had multiple seed routers, I mean, it wouldn't be a problem. Multiple seed routers is a good thing.) Good luck! By the way, thank-you for buying my book. I hope you like it. Talk to you later, Priscilla At 06:49 PM 10/16/00, Dave Redwood wrote: Thanks to everyone who sent a response. I'm sorry I didn't give more details when I wrote last night; I think I was just on the verge of going to sleep. The exact message was: "Your AppleTalk network has become available. To use the network, open the AppleTalk control panel, then close it. " So the users actually have to open the control panel in order to access other AppleTalk devices(even if they are in the same VLAN or segment). And no zones are displayed until after the control panel is opened and then closed. I've tried locking down the ports to all possible combinations of 10/100 half/full, setting the ports of the affected machines to portfast/regular STP implementations, and the problem still lingers. The only thing I have noticed in the last 24hrs is that the machines running OS-X beta aren't having the problem, those running OS9 and earlier are) We don't have multiple seed routers(but thx for suggesting it Chris!). Here's our layout: (multiple mac clients G3/G4/etc...) | | 100/full (But i've tried all possible combinations) | | Catalyst 5500b(VLAN 33) | | FDDI | | Catalyst 5500b(VLAN 33) | | FDDI | | Catalyst 5500c w/RSM ISL And the Apple TIL mentions this exact issue. However a clear solution isn't provided. But thank you for noting it(Priscilla) and finding the link for me(Daniel) it definitely is worth the read. Well, I think I'm stuck. But I'll keep working on the problem and let you know if I find a solution. Thank you *all*(Ian, Daniel, Chris and Priscilla) for taking the time to make the suggestions P.S.: Priscilla, I just started reading TDND and am loving it. I'm honored(I would try to find a more subtle word, but it's true) to have had your input on this issue. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
