VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
Cisco support vlan tagging over frame circuits?
I was looking at a Tierra networks router and it was listed as one of it +'s.
Does Cisco even support this? This kinda creeps up even further on the +'s
of atm and how long atm is going to survive.
Other than being capable of joining elans at oen fac. from another, can
anyone even think of why atm still exists? With wdm and all the newer
technology coming around the corner, why is atm still so saught after for
long distance links?
-Patrick
> Confidentiality Disclaimer
This email and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential and
/or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar Health System,
Inc. ("WellStar") and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom
addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or
copying of any information from this email is strictly prohibited, and may
subject you to criminal and/or civil liability. If you have received this
email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and then delete this
email and its attachments from your computer. Thank you.
Message Posted at:
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RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
quite possibly because the big telecom providers
connect most of their pops/CO's with high speed
atm links...
Larry Letterman
Cisco Systems
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Patrick Ramsey
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:25 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
Cisco support vlan tagging over frame circuits?
I was looking at a Tierra networks router and it was listed as one of it
+'s.
Does Cisco even support this? This kinda creeps up even further on the +'s
of atm and how long atm is going to survive.
Other than being capable of joining elans at oen fac. from another, can
anyone even think of why atm still exists? With wdm and all the newer
technology coming around the corner, why is atm still so saught after for
long distance links?
-Patrick
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Confidentiality Disclaimer <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
This email and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential and
/or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar Health System,
Inc. ("WellStar") and is intended only for the individual or entity to whom
addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be
privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If
the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or
copying of any information from this email is strictly prohibited, and may
subject you to criminal and/or civil liability. If you have received this
email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and then delete this
email and its attachments from your computer. Thank you.
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38015&t=38003
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RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
I work for a large ISP. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as a
high speed ATM link. In the cisco carrier class ATM world oc-12 is as fast
as you go. Unless of course you use the mgx 8850, the biggest piece of junk
ever painted blue and stamped with a bridge. ATM is still a great way to do
statistical multiplexing, a great revenue stream for carriers and popular
among the "connect all the sites in my enterprise together with DS3s
crowd." ATM circuit emulation is darn handy for legacy video. It's days
are numbered in larger networks. It's all but extinct in the > OC-12
networks, but it's going to be around for a while for smaller networks.
Mike
---
Mike Bernico [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Illinois Century Network http://www.illinois.net
(217) 557-6555
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry Letterman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:00 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
>
>
> quite possibly because the big telecom providers
> connect most of their pops/CO's with high speed
> atm links...
>
>
> Larry Letterman
> Cisco Systems
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Patrick Ramsey
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:25 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
>
>
> Cisco support vlan tagging over frame circuits?
>
> I was looking at a Tierra networks router and it was listed
> as one of it
> +'s.
>
> Does Cisco even support this? This kinda creeps up even
> further on the +'s
> of atm and how long atm is going to survive.
>
> Other than being capable of joining elans at oen fac. from
> another, can
> anyone even think of why atm still exists? With wdm and all the newer
> technology coming around the corner, why is atm still so
> saught after for
> long distance links?
>
> -Patrick
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Confidentiality DisclaimerThis email and any files
transmitted with it may contain
> confidential and
> /or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar
> Health System,
> Inc. ("WellStar") and is intended only for the individual or
> entity to whom
> addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be
> privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
> applicable law. If
> the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
> are hereby
> notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or
> copying of any information from this email is strictly
> prohibited, and may
> subject you to criminal and/or civil liability. If you have
> received this
> email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and
> then delete this
> email and its attachments from your computer. Thank you.
>
>
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38023&t=38003
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Re: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
Out of curiosity, what hardware/protocol do you use for an OC-192?
- Original Message -
From: "Mike Bernico"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:28 PM
Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> I work for a large ISP. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as
a
> high speed ATM link. In the cisco carrier class ATM world oc-12 is as fast
> as you go. Unless of course you use the mgx 8850, the biggest piece of
junk
> ever painted blue and stamped with a bridge. ATM is still a great way to
do
> statistical multiplexing, a great revenue stream for carriers and popular
> among the "connect all the sites in my enterprise together with DS3s
> crowd." ATM circuit emulation is darn handy for legacy video. It's days
> are numbered in larger networks. It's all but extinct in the > OC-12
> networks, but it's going to be around for a while for smaller networks.
>
>
> Mike
> ---
> Mike Bernico [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Illinois Century Network http://www.illinois.net
> (217) 557-6555
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Larry Letterman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:00 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> >
> >
> > quite possibly because the big telecom providers
> > connect most of their pops/CO's with high speed
> > atm links...
> >
> >
> > Larry Letterman
> > Cisco Systems
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Patrick Ramsey
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:25 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> >
> >
> > Cisco support vlan tagging over frame circuits?
> >
> > I was looking at a Tierra networks router and it was listed
> > as one of it
> > +'s.
> >
> > Does Cisco even support this? This kinda creeps up even
> > further on the +'s
> > of atm and how long atm is going to survive.
> >
> > Other than being capable of joining elans at oen fac. from
> > another, can
> > anyone even think of why atm still exists? With wdm and all the newer
> > technology coming around the corner, why is atm still so
> > saught after for
> > long distance links?
> >
> > -Patrick
> >
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Confidentiality DisclaimerThis email and any files
> transmitted with it may contain
> > confidential and
> > /or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar
> > Health System,
> > Inc. ("WellStar") and is intended only for the individual or
> > entity to whom
> > addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be
> > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
> > applicable law. If
> > the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
> > are hereby
> > notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or
> > copying of any information from this email is strictly
> > prohibited, and may
> > subject you to criminal and/or civil liability. If you have
> > received this
> > email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and
> > then delete this
> > email and its attachments from your computer. Thank you.
> >
> >
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38026&t=38003
--
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Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
Heh, for only about $240,000 list you too can own a 1 port oc-192 POS card
for a 124xx series GSR that will do not only PPP and HDLC over sonet, but
also frame relay encapsulation...
Seriously though, we aren't ready for 10Gig yet, but when the time comes I'm
considering using 10 Gig E between our core routers instead. I'm not sure
how serious I am about that, but the line cards will be less than half the
cost. Anyone other SPs out there considering that?
Mike
-Original Message-
From: Mike Mandulak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tue 3/12/2002 5:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
Out of curiosity, what hardware/protocol do you use for an OC-192?
- Original Message -
From: "Mike Bernico"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:28 PM
Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> I work for a large ISP. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing
as
a
> high speed ATM link. In the cisco carrier class ATM world oc-12 is as
fast
> as you go. Unless of course you use the mgx 8850, the biggest piece of
junk
> ever painted blue and stamped with a bridge. ATM is still a great way to
do
> statistical multiplexing, a great revenue stream for carriers and popular
> among the "connect all the sites in my enterprise together with DS3s
> crowd." ATM circuit emulation is darn handy for legacy video. It's days
> are numbered in larger networks. It's all but extinct in the > OC-12
> networks, but it's going to be around for a while for smaller networks.
>
>
> Mike
> ---
> Mike Bernico [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Illinois Century Network http://www.illinois.net
> (217) 557-6555
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Larry Letterman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:00 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> >
> >
> > quite possibly because the big telecom providers
> > connect most of their pops/CO's with high speed
> > atm links...
> >
> >
> > Larry Letterman
> > Cisco Systems
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Patrick Ramsey
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:25 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> >
> >
> > Cisco support vlan tagging over frame circuits?
> >
> > I was looking at a Tierra networks router and it was listed
> > as one of it
> > +'s.
> >
> > Does Cisco even support this? This kinda creeps up even
> > further on the +'s
> > of atm and how long atm is going to survive.
> >
> > Other than being capable of joining elans at oen fac. from
> > another, can
> > anyone even think of why atm still exists? With wdm and all the newer
> > technology coming around the corner, why is atm still so
> > saught after for
> > long distance links?
> >
> > -Patrick
> >
> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Confidentiality DisclaimerThis email and any files
> transmitted with it may contain
> > confidential and
> > /or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar
> > Health System,
> > Inc. ("WellStar") and is intended only for the individual or
> > entity to whom
> > addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be
> > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
> > applicable law. If
> > the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
> > are hereby
> > notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or
> > copying of any information from this email is strictly
> > prohibit
Re: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
Do you think I need a couple for my home lab? The largest I've worked
with are oc-3's.
- Original Message -
From: "Mike Bernico"
To: "Mike Mandulak" ;
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:24 AM
Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> Heh, for only about $240,000 list you too can own a 1 port oc-192 POS card
for a 124xx series GSR that will do not only PPP and HDLC over sonet, but
also frame relay encapsulation...
>
> Seriously though, we aren't ready for 10Gig yet, but when the time comes
I'm considering using 10 Gig E between our core routers instead. I'm not
sure how serious I am about that, but the line cards will be less than half
the cost. Anyone other SPs out there considering that?
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Mandulak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tue 3/12/2002 5:14 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
>
>
>
> Out of curiosity, what hardware/protocol do you use for an OC-192?
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Bernico"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:28 PM
> Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
>
>
> > I work for a large ISP. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing
as
> a
> > high speed ATM link. In the cisco carrier class ATM world oc-12 is as
fast
> > as you go. Unless of course you use the mgx 8850, the biggest piece of
> junk
> > ever painted blue and stamped with a bridge. ATM is still a great way
to
> do
> > statistical multiplexing, a great revenue stream for carriers and
popular
> > among the "connect all the sites in my enterprise together with DS3s
> > crowd." ATM circuit emulation is darn handy for legacy video. It's
days
> > are numbered in larger networks. It's all but extinct in the > OC-12
> > networks, but it's going to be around for a while for smaller networks.
> >
> >
> > Mike
> > ---
> > Mike Bernico [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Illinois Century Network http://www.illinois.net
> > (217) 557-6555
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Larry Letterman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:00 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> > >
> > >
> > > quite possibly because the big telecom providers
> > > connect most of their pops/CO's with high speed
> > > atm links...
> > >
> > >
> > > Larry Letterman
> > > Cisco Systems
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > > Patrick Ramsey
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:25 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> > >
> > >
> > > Cisco support vlan tagging over frame circuits?
> > >
> > > I was looking at a Tierra networks router and it was listed
> > > as one of it
> > > +'s.
> > >
> > > Does Cisco even support this? This kinda creeps up even
> > > further on the +'s
> > > of atm and how long atm is going to survive.
> > >
> > > Other than being capable of joining elans at oen fac. from
> > > another, can
> > > anyone even think of why atm still exists? With wdm and all the newer
> > > technology coming around the corner, why is atm still so
> > > saught after for
> > > long distance links?
> > >
> > > -Patrick
> > >
> > >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Confidentiality DisclaimerThis email and any files
> > transmitted with it may contain
> > > confidential and
> > > /or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar
> > > Health System,
> > > Inc. ("WellStar") and is intended only for the individual or
> > > entity to whom
> > > addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be
> > > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
> > > applicable law. If
> > > the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
> > > are hereby
> > > notified that any unauthorized access, dissemination, distribution or
> > > copying of any information from this email is strictly
> > > prohibited, and may
> > > subject you to criminal and/or civil liability. If you have
> > > received this
> > > email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and
> > > then delete this
> > > email and its attachments from your computer. Thank you.
> > >
> > >
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=38074&t=38003
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Re: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
the largest I have had expereince with is oc-12 on an oc-48 smart
ring...There's no difference in setup really. hell I would go for the
cheapest!
>>> "Mike Mandulak" 03/13/02 01:19AM >>>
Do you think I need a couple for my home lab? The largest I've worked
with are oc-3's.
- Original Message -
From: "Mike Bernico"
To: "Mike Mandulak" ;
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:24 AM
Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> Heh, for only about $240,000 list you too can own a 1 port oc-192 POS card
for a 124xx series GSR that will do not only PPP and HDLC over sonet, but
also frame relay encapsulation...
>
> Seriously though, we aren't ready for 10Gig yet, but when the time comes
I'm considering using 10 Gig E between our core routers instead. I'm not
sure how serious I am about that, but the line cards will be less than half
the cost. Anyone other SPs out there considering that?
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Mandulak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tue 3/12/2002 5:14 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
>
>
>
> Out of curiosity, what hardware/protocol do you use for an OC-192?
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike Bernico"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:28 PM
> Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
>
>
> > I work for a large ISP. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing
as
> a
> > high speed ATM link. In the cisco carrier class ATM world oc-12 is as
fast
> > as you go. Unless of course you use the mgx 8850, the biggest piece of
> junk
> > ever painted blue and stamped with a bridge. ATM is still a great way
to
> do
> > statistical multiplexing, a great revenue stream for carriers and
popular
> > among the "connect all the sites in my enterprise together with DS3s
> > crowd." ATM circuit emulation is darn handy for legacy video. It's
days
> > are numbered in larger networks. It's all but extinct in the > OC-12
> > networks, but it's going to be around for a while for smaller networks.
> >
> >
> > Mike
> > ---
> > Mike Bernico [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Illinois Century Network http://www.illinois.net
> > (217) 557-6555
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Larry Letterman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:00 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> > >
> > >
> > > quite possibly because the big telecom providers
> > > connect most of their pops/CO's with high speed
> > > atm links...
> > >
> > >
> > > Larry Letterman
> > > Cisco Systems
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > > Patrick Ramsey
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:25 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
> > >
> > >
> > > Cisco support vlan tagging over frame circuits?
> > >
> > > I was looking at a Tierra networks router and it was listed
> > > as one of it
> > > +'s.
> > >
> > > Does Cisco even support this? This kinda creeps up even
> > > further on the +'s
> > > of atm and how long atm is going to survive.
> > >
> > > Other than being capable of joining elans at oen fac. from
> > > another, can
> > > anyone even think of why atm still exists? With wdm and all the newer
> > > technology coming around the corner, why is atm still so
> > > saught after for
> > > long distance links?
> > >
> > > -Patrick
> > >
> > >
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Confidentiality DisclaimerThis email and any files
> > transmitted with it may contain
> > > confidential and
> > > /or proprietary information in the possession of WellStar
> > > Health System,
> > > Inc. ("WellStar") and is intended only for the individual or
> > > entity to whom
> > > addressed. This email may contain information that is held to be
> > > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
> > > applicable law. If
> > > the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
> > > are hereby
&
RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003]
>Heh, for only about $240,000 list you too can own a 1 port oc-192 POS card >for a 124xx series GSR that will do not only PPP and HDLC over sonet, but >also frame relay encapsulation... > >Seriously though, we aren't ready for 10Gig yet, but when the time comes I'm >considering using 10 Gig E between our core routers instead. I'm not sure >how serious I am about that, but the line cards will be less than half the >cost. Anyone other SPs out there considering that? > >Mike I definitely know of service providers planning for it, although some of it may be wavelength switching rather than pure packet switching (see the Generalized MPLS work in the IETF). We definitely had OC-192 customers when I was at Nortel, and that OC-192 was being fed as multiple streams using DWDM. PPP and HDLC may be getting long in the tooth, as well as SONET, as IEEE starts to standardize the Spatial Reuse Protocol. A number of companies have OC-768 in development, but apparently going faster than that is going to require some major advances in solid state physics. On the other hand, they are getting more and more OC-192's multiplexed onto a fiber, and there are ultra-long-reach fiber systems that can run around 4000 kilometers between repeaters. > > -Original Message- > From: Mike Mandulak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tue 3/12/2002 5:14 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: > Subject: Re: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003] > > > > Out of curiosity, what hardware/protocol do you use for an OC-192? > > - Original Message - > From: "Mike Bernico" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 5:28 PM > Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003] > > > > I work for a large ISP. As far as I'm concerned there is >no such thing >as > a > > high speed ATM link. In the cisco carrier class ATM world oc-12 is as >fast > > as you go. Unless of course you use the mgx 8850, the >biggest piece of > junk > > ever painted blue and stamped with a bridge. ATM is still >a great way to > do > > statistical multiplexing, a great revenue stream for >carriers and popular > > among the "connect all the sites in my enterprise together with DS3s > > crowd." ATM circuit emulation is darn handy for legacy >video. It's days > > are numbered in larger networks. It's all but extinct in the > OC-12 > > networks, but it's going to be around for a while for >smaller networks. > > > > > > Mike > > --- > > Mike Bernico [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Illinois Century Network http://www.illinois.net > > (217) 557-6555 > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Larry Letterman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:00 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: RE: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003] > > > > > > > > > quite possibly because the big telecom providers > > > connect most of their pops/CO's with high speed > > > atm links... > > > > > > > > > Larry Letterman > > > Cisco Systems > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > > Patrick Ramsey > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:25 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: VLoFR and atm popularity [7:38003] > > > > > > > > > Cisco support vlan tagging over frame circuits? > > > > > > I was looking at a Tierra networks router and it was listed > > > as one of it > > > +'s. > > > > > > Does Cisco even support this? This kinda creeps up even > > > further on the +'s > > > of atm and how long atm is going to survive. > > > > > > Other than being capable of joining elans at oen fac. from > > > another, can > > > anyone even think of why atm still exists? With wdm and >all the newer > > > technology coming around the corner, why is atm still so > > > saught after for > > > long distance li
