Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
As far as I can see, Odersky also doesn't follow the hint, and hence does not pass the test cases provided with the original problem. The hint is not really a hint but rather a change to the problem. The original problem is elegant and essentially consists of inverting a clearly defined function that maps word+number sequences to phone numbers. That's why logic programming (and for comprehensions which is a poor man's logic programming) is so good at it. Unfortunately, implementing the problem plus hint pretty much forces you to use the exact same imperative algorithm as he did to generate his test cases. The people in the study also had to do the same, so if you want your code to be comparable with the results in the study that's what you have to do... Jules On Saturday, September 22, 2012 6:23:25 PM UTC+2, David Nolen wrote: On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Dennis Haupt d.ha...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: here's my solution: https://gist.github.com/3766508 the original (done in 2 hours) solution is commented out. i made some improvements and solved the whole thing in 39 lines (counting only the content of main). doing it in the minimal amount of lines was not my goal. i was trying to minimize the logic. shorter code was just a side effect. try to beat it :). let's see how that looks in clojure. Looks pretty convoluted ;) Here's Odersky's Scala version and mine that uses core.logic http://gist.github.com/1107653. I'm headed to StrangeLoop so I don't have time to verify that the Scala or my version fully satisfies the original problem description. But my guess is that Odersky did really solve the original problem. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
I agree that Odersky's version doesn't match the spec. Hint or no hint, it doesn't look like he even attempts to address the issue of inserting single digits into the encoding. He's solving a different, somewhat simpler problem. I don't agree that the hint changes the problem statement. The original spec is relatively clear about the conditions under which you are allowed to insert a plain digit in the encoding. I can see how someone might interpret it differently, but it stresses that it's meant to be treated as a local decision -- you can only insert a digit if no word from the dictionary is a leftmost substring of the remaining letters. The hint simply clarifies what is already in the spec. Has anyone tried running Nolen's core.logic version yet to see if it works? At first glance, it looks like it only finds combinations of exactly two words that combine to encode the number, which isn't even the version that Odersky did. --Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
i did not need the hint to develop a correct solution. the hint just clarifies what could have been misunderstood. Am 23.09.2012 21:03, schrieb Mark Engelberg: I agree that Odersky's version doesn't match the spec. Hint or no hint, it doesn't look like he even attempts to address the issue of inserting single digits into the encoding. He's solving a different, somewhat simpler problem. I don't agree that the hint changes the problem statement. The original spec is relatively clear about the conditions under which you are allowed to insert a plain digit in the encoding. I can see how someone might interpret it differently, but it stresses that it's meant to be treated as a local decision -- you can only insert a digit if no word from the dictionary is a leftmost substring of the remaining letters. The hint simply clarifies what is already in the spec. Has anyone tried running Nolen's core.logic version yet to see if it works? At first glance, it looks like it only finds combinations of exactly two words that combine to encode the number, which isn't even the version that Odersky did. --Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
The spec says if there is no word in the dictionary that can be used in the partial encoding starting at digit k+1 then a digit can be used. Some people interpreted that as no word from the dictionary can be used in a solution. Others interpreted that as no word from the dictionary can be used for a single word addition :) Are there other challenges like this study? On Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:40:35 PM UTC+2, HamsterofDeath wrote: i did not need the hint to develop a correct solution. the hint just clarifies what could have been misunderstood. Am 23.09.2012 21:03, schrieb Mark Engelberg: I agree that Odersky's version doesn't match the spec. Hint or no hint, it doesn't look like he even attempts to address the issue of inserting single digits into the encoding. He's solving a different, somewhat simpler problem. I don't agree that the hint changes the problem statement. The original spec is relatively clear about the conditions under which you are allowed to insert a plain digit in the encoding. I can see how someone might interpret it differently, but it stresses that it's meant to be treated as a local decision -- you can only insert a digit if no word from the dictionary is a leftmost substring of the remaining letters. The hint simply clarifies what is already in the spec. Has anyone tried running Nolen's core.logic version yet to see if it works? At first glance, it looks like it only finds combinations of exactly two words that combine to encode the number, which isn't even the version that Odersky did. --Mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.comjavascript: Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com javascript: For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
here's my solution: https://gist.github.com/3766508 the original (done in 2 hours) solution is commented out. i made some improvements and solved the whole thing in 39 lines (counting only the content of main). doing it in the minimal amount of lines was not my goal. i was trying to minimize the logic. shorter code was just a side effect. try to beat it :). let's see how that looks in clojure. Am 20.09.2012 19:30, schrieb David Nolen: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Jules julesjac...@gmail.com mailto:julesjac...@gmail.com wrote: This problem would be ideally suited for core.logic except because of the hint (http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/hint2.html) you'd need to do something far more ugly. The solution I came up with doesn't attempt to encode the entire solution in core.logic. Also I admit the solution I came up with was a response to Odersky's neat version for the Scala Days 2011 Keynote and not the original problem. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Dennis Haupt d.haup...@gmail.com wrote: here's my solution: https://gist.github.com/3766508 the original (done in 2 hours) solution is commented out. i made some improvements and solved the whole thing in 39 lines (counting only the content of main). doing it in the minimal amount of lines was not my goal. i was trying to minimize the logic. shorter code was just a side effect. try to beat it :). let's see how that looks in clojure. Looks pretty convoluted ;) Here's Odersky's Scala version and mine that uses core.logic http://gist.github.com/1107653. I'm headed to StrangeLoop so I don't have time to verify that the Scala or my version fully satisfies the original problem description. But my guess is that Odersky did really solve the original problem. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
nice... he approximately does with for loops what i do without the sugar, hence all the chained calls. i noticed i do a bit more than necessary (the reverse thing is a remainder of an early misinterpretation of the spec), but who cares, it works :) however, odersky's short version doesn't solve the problem ;) it doesn't: * handle the - / and chars * handle the fallback-case (print a number if no word fits) * format the output correctly removing all this from my code, just 2/3 of the current implementation remain. i updated my solution, it's a bit more elegant now. Am 22.09.2012 18:22, schrieb David Nolen: On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Dennis Haupt d.haup...@gmail.com mailto:d.haup...@gmail.com wrote: here's my solution: https://gist.github.com/3766508 the original (done in 2 hours) solution is commented out. i made some improvements and solved the whole thing in 39 lines (counting only the content of main). doing it in the minimal amount of lines was not my goal. i was trying to minimize the logic. shorter code was just a side effect. try to beat it :). let's see how that looks in clojure. Looks pretty convoluted ;) Here's Odersky's Scala version and mine that uses core.logic http://gist.github.com/1107653. I'm headed to StrangeLoop so I don't have time to verify that the Scala or my version fully satisfies the original problem description. But my guess is that Odersky did really solve the original problem. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
language shootout / the phonecode study
i stumbled upon this: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/ the results: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf summary: concise languages bashed c, c++ and java if you look at the time needed to complete the program. however, in 1999, there were no good ides, and there was no lisp implementation. and no scala one, obviously. i intend to see for myself how long i need to solve this using currently available tools and am asking around if anyone would like to participate in my little study. the more, the merrier. if enough people volunteer i'll set something up -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Dennis Haupt d.haup...@googlemail.comwrote: i stumbled upon this: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/ the results: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf summary: concise languages bashed c, c++ and java if you look at the time needed to complete the program. however, in 1999, there were no good ides, and there was no lisp implementation. and no scala one, obviously. i intend to see for myself how long i need to solve this using currently available tools and am asking around if anyone would like to participate in my little study. the more, the merrier. if enough people volunteer i'll set something up Let me know if you want to see a ridiculously concise solution using core.logic ;) David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
what i am really interested in is the time necessary to finish the task. i'll probably need to modify the requiremet so the participants cannot cheat - or i'll allow cheating deliberately and say this is the result under optimal conditions (meaning the raw coding time is measured, no debugging, fixing and so on) i'll have to think about that 2012/9/20 David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Dennis Haupt d.haup...@googlemail.comwrote: i stumbled upon this: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/ the results: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf summary: concise languages bashed c, c++ and java if you look at the time needed to complete the program. however, in 1999, there were no good ides, and there was no lisp implementation. and no scala one, obviously. i intend to see for myself how long i need to solve this using currently available tools and am asking around if anyone would like to participate in my little study. the more, the merrier. if enough people volunteer i'll set something up Let me know if you want to see a ridiculously concise solution using core.logic ;) David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
This problem would be ideally suited for core.logic except because of the hint (http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/hint2.html) you'd need to do something far more ugly. On Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:07:52 PM UTC+2, David Nolen wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Dennis Haupt d.ha...@googlemail.comjavascript: wrote: i stumbled upon this: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/ the results: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf summary: concise languages bashed c, c++ and java if you look at the time needed to complete the program. however, in 1999, there were no good ides, and there was no lisp implementation. and no scala one, obviously. i intend to see for myself how long i need to solve this using currently available tools and am asking around if anyone would like to participate in my little study. the more, the merrier. if enough people volunteer i'll set something up Let me know if you want to see a ridiculously concise solution using core.logic ;) David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Jules julesjac...@gmail.com wrote: This problem would be ideally suited for core.logic except because of the hint (http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/hint2.html) you'd need to do something far more ugly. The solution I came up with doesn't attempt to encode the entire solution in core.logic. Also I admit the solution I came up with was a response to Odersky's neat version for the Scala Days 2011 Keynote and not the original problem. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
gaaah you almost made me read it Am 20.09.2012 19:19, schrieb Jules: This problem would be ideally suited for core.logic except because of the hint (http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/hint2.html) you'd need to do something far more ugly. On Thursday, September 20, 2012 5:07:52 PM UTC+2, David Nolen wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Dennis Haupt d.ha...@googlemail.com javascript: wrote: i stumbled upon this: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/ http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/ the results: http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/Biblio/jccpprt_computer2000.pdf summary: concise languages bashed c, c++ and java if you look at the time needed to complete the program. however, in 1999, there were no good ides, and there was no lisp implementation. and no scala one, obviously. i intend to see for myself how long i need to solve this using currently available tools and am asking around if anyone would like to participate in my little study. the more, the merrier. if enough people volunteer i'll set something up Let me know if you want to see a ridiculously concise solution using core.logic ;) David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
Re: language shootout / the phonecode study
i came to a correct solution without that hint :) just like in reality, i started coding without reading the spec. a few surprises came along the way (what? they want it like this? they just added this to mock me!) i spent about 50% of the time writing code and 50% thinking about it. i'll tell my times anyone who solves it as well. and i'm definately not going to rewrite this in java this is crazy Am 20.09.2012 19:30, schrieb David Nolen: On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Jules julesjac...@gmail.com mailto:julesjac...@gmail.com wrote: This problem would be ideally suited for core.logic except because of the hint (http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/prechelt/phonecode/hint2.html) you'd need to do something far more ugly. The solution I came up with doesn't attempt to encode the entire solution in core.logic. Also I admit the solution I came up with was a response to Odersky's neat version for the Scala Days 2011 Keynote and not the original problem. David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Clojure group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en
