Re: Stus-List C&C 29-2 Prop walk

[Knowles Rich via CnC-List]

I think that there are plenty of variables that will influence the amount of 
prop walk and wash including the design of the propellor, hull design, location 
of the prop, aperture or not, hull-to-prop-tip distance, shaft angle, both 
vertical and horizontal, rudder design, prop rpm/speed, hull speed through the 
water, phase of the moon, etc. etc, but I’ll stick with my basic premise until 
disproved or ridiculed out of contention.

I’m a sensitive guy.

Rich Knowles
Nanaimo, BC
INDIGO LF38
Almost sold in Halifax, NS.





On May 16, 2015, at 07:19, Bob Hickson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Interesting theories / comments on the causes of prop walk.
You should note that on the 29-2 the prop is offset from the center line of the 
hull and it is located to the port side of the small skeg leading into the 
rudder.
The combined downward angle of the prop shaft PLUS the angle towards the port 
side of the hull is likely to worsen prop walk as compared to a prop located on 
the center line of the hull
 
Fair Winds,
 
Bob Hickson, P. Eng.
Frenchman’s Bay Yacht Club,
C and C 29 mark 2, Flying Colours,
416-919-2297
bobhick...@rogers.com 
 
 
 
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Rich Knowles
Nanaimo, BC
INDIGO LF38
Almost sold in Halifax, NS.





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Re: Stus-List Rusted cotter ring remnants in anchor roller retaining pin

[Russ & Melody via CnC-List]

Hi Pete,

I expect it is spring steel if you're dealing 
with a (split) ring. So it's difficult to drill.


The simplest method is to dress it flush with the 
pin surface as best you can, file or grinder, and 
drill a new hole ~90 degrees from the old. A 
little away from the old path if you have enough 
material towards the end so you don't bump into 
the old ring on your way through. It helps to 
flatten the surface & centre punch where you want to drill.


If you try acid then get the strongest that you 
are comfortable working with and wear eye 
protection, gloves, blah blah. Don't worry about 
the S/S pin, our 93% strength sulfuric acid pumps 
& piping is stainless steel. Then when ready try 
to drive it out with a pin punch instead of drilling.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1

At 10:04 AM 16/05/2015, you wrote:

Pete,
For what it’s worth, Citric Acid will eat the 
rust(iron) and not effect the stainless.  I am 
not sure how you would use that info.  Maybe 
soak the area intermittently with a 10% citric 
solution.  I don’t think it will harm your fiberglass.

The powdered drink “Tang” is high in Citric acid.
Cheers
Rick
C&C 37+ Paikea
Poulsbo, WA
On May 15, 2015, at 4:36 PM, 
kellype...@msn.com 
via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:


Listers, please give me advice.
Due to inferior steel, a cotter ring has rusted 
badly, and I am unable to remove the remnants from the pin.
So far, a hardened-steel drill bit (Irwin 
brand) is simply enlarging the hole around the 
edges, but not removing the ring remnants.

Is there chemical solution?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


Pete W.
Siren. Song
'91 C & C 30 MkII
Deltaville, Va.




Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Tablet


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Re: Stus-List Keel Bolt problem 35-3

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

I made new ones from G10 fiberglass. see 
 G10 handles 
compression loads very well.  It has held up for 7 years, and I don't 
see a problem.  If yours are wedged shaped, machining the material to 
fit can be a challenge.  Also, if your 'spacer' cracked it may have been 
because it was bridging over a gap or uneven spot in the bilge.  G10 
does *not* handle that kind of stress well, either.  I broke one of my 
little spacers because it was supported on the ends but had some air in 
the middle around the bolt.  I made a new spacer, set some epoxy 
thickened with colloidal silica around the problem area, and put the 
spacer down with some waxed paper underneath to avoid epoxying the thing 
into the boat. I used the nut to press the spacer into place and ensure 
that it was aligned right with the bolt.  After everything cured, I 
pulled it up, and when we set the keel for good we caulked the living 
heck out of it.


Note that I didn't have the spacer things before.  I set them there to 
keep the nuts and washers off the bilge floor, so they wouldn't sit in 
standing water.


Wal



On 5/16/2015 5:26 PM, scott gary via CnC-List wrote:

  Hello Listers, I was tightening my keel bolts on my 35-3 before launch when I 
heard a crack.



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Re: Stus-List Keel Bolt problem 35-3

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Scott,

 

The originals are aluminum.  For what reason, I can't imagine.  Low cost and
easy to machine.  When we R&R'd the keel, the yard made new ones from
stainless.  It's the only way to go.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

"Midnight Mistress"

C&C 35 Mk-III

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of scott
gary via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2015 1:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: scott gary
Subject: Stus-List Keel Bolt problem 35-3

 

 

Hello Listers,

 

I was tightening my keel bolts on my 35-3 before launch when I heard a
crack.  Fortunately not the bolt, but the wedge shape spacer under the
washers and nut cracked.  This is the piece that levels the surface the
washers and nut sit on to keep it perpendicular to the keel bolt.  I'm not
sure, but the material may be aluminum, anyone replace these and what
material did you use?

 

Thanks,

Scott 

1987 C&C 35-3 "Oasis"

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Re: Stus-List Keel Bolt problem 35-3

[scott gary via CnC-List]

Yes, I agree, I was planning on replacing with stainless, it just doesn't seem 
like the old ones are stainless as they pretty much crumbled when I removed 
them while the stainless bolts, nuts and washers are nearly perfect condition.
 
Scott
 
Date: Sat, 16 May 2015 14:09:50 -0400
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel Bolt problem 35-3
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: captnga...@gmail.com

Stainless steel and aluminum don't mix.  You'll get severe galvanic corrosion.  
All hardware should be stainless steel.  A keel is a bad thing to lose!
Gary~~~_/)~~



On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 1:26 PM, scott gary via CnC-List 
 wrote:



 Hello Listers, I was tightening my keel bolts on my 35-3 before launch when I 
heard a crack.  Fortunately not the bolt, but the wedge shape spacer under the 
washers and nut cracked.  This is the piece that levels the surface the washers 
and nut sit on to keep it perpendicular to the keel bolt.  I’m not sure, but 
the material may be aluminum, anyone replace these and what material did you 
use?
Thanks,Scott 1987 C&C 35-3 “Oasis”

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Re: Stus-List Keel Bolt problem 35-3

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Stainless steel and aluminum don't mix.  You'll get severe galvanic
corrosion.  All hardware should be stainless steel.  A keel is a bad thing
to lose!

Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 1:26 PM, scott gary via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Hello Listers,
>
> I was tightening my keel bolts on my 35-3 before launch when I heard a
> crack.  Fortunately not the bolt, but the wedge shape spacer under
> the washers and nut cracked.  This is the piece that levels the surface the
> washers and nut sit on to keep it perpendicular to the keel bolt.  I’m not
> sure, but the material may be aluminum, anyone replace these and what
> material did you use?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
> 1987 C&C 35-3 “Oasis”
>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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Re: Stus-List Keel Bolt problem 35-3

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Touche's are stainless.

Dennis C.

On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 12:26 PM, scott gary via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Hello Listers,
>
> I was tightening my keel bolts on my 35-3 before launch when I heard a
> crack.  Fortunately not the bolt, but the wedge shape spacer under
> the washers and nut cracked.  This is the piece that levels the surface the
> washers and nut sit on to keep it perpendicular to the keel bolt.  I’m not
> sure, but the material may be aluminum, anyone replace these and what
> material did you use?
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
> 1987 C&C 35-3 “Oasis”
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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Stus-List Keel Bolt problem 35-3

[scott gary via CnC-List]

 Hello Listers, I was tightening my keel bolts on my 35-3 before launch when I 
heard a crack.  Fortunately not the bolt, but the wedge shape spacer under the 
washers and nut cracked.  This is the piece that levels the surface the washers 
and nut sit on to keep it perpendicular to the keel bolt.  I’m not sure, but 
the material may be aluminum, anyone replace these and what material did you 
use?
Thanks,Scott 1987 C&C 35-3 “Oasis”___

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Re: Stus-List C&C 29-2 Prop walk

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

I thought offset to port would help the situation.  No?
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Bob Hickson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Interesting theories / comments on the causes of prop walk.
>
> You should note that on the 29-2 the prop is offset from the center line
> of the hull and it is located to the port side of the small skeg leading
> into the rudder.
>
> The combined downward angle of the prop shaft PLUS the angle towards the
> port side of the hull is likely to worsen prop walk as compared to a prop
> located on the center line of the hull
>
>
>
> Fair Winds,
>
>
>
> Bob Hickson, P. Eng.
>
> Frenchman’s Bay Yacht Club,
>
> C and C 29 mark 2, Flying Colours,
>
> 416-919-2297
>
> bobhick...@rogers.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Rusted cotter ring remnants in anchor roller retaining pin

[Rick Rohwer via CnC-List]

Pete, 
For what it’s worth, Citric Acid will eat the rust(iron) and not effect the 
stainless.  I am not sure how you would use that info.  Maybe soak the area 
intermittently with a 10% citric solution.  I don’t think it will harm your 
fiberglass.  
The powdered drink “Tang” is high in Citric acid.  
Cheers
Rick
C&C 37+ Paikea
Poulsbo, WA 
> On May 15, 2015, at 4:36 PM, kellype...@msn.com via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Listers, please give me advice.
> Due to inferior steel, a cotter ring has rusted badly, and I am unable to 
> remove the remnants from the pin.
> So far, a hardened-steel drill bit (Irwin brand) is simply enlarging the hole 
> around the edges, but not removing the ring remnants.
> Is there chemical solution? 
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
>  
> Pete W.
> Siren. Song 
> '91 C & C 30 MkII
> Deltaville, Va.
>  
>  
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Tablet
>  
> ___
> 
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> of page at:
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Stus-List C&C 29-2 Prop walk

[Bob Hickson via CnC-List]

Interesting theories / comments on the causes of prop walk.

You should note that on the 29-2 the prop is offset from the center line of
the hull and it is located to the port side of the small skeg leading into
the rudder.

The combined downward angle of the prop shaft PLUS the angle towards the
port side of the hull is likely to worsen prop walk as compared to a prop
located on the center line of the hull

 

Fair Winds,

 

Bob Hickson, P. Eng.

Frenchman's Bay Yacht Club,

C and C 29 mark 2, Flying Colours,

416-919-2297

bobhick...@rogers.com  

 

 

 

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Re: Stus-List Prop Walk C&C 29-2

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Sounds reasonable.  To add on, would you agree that the spinning column of
water which gets split by the rudder when going forward is then responsible
for the phenomenon called prop-wash?  I feel some pretty substantial wash
and a pretty strong pull to port when full throttle but a reasonable and
balanced helm when sailing.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On May 16, 2015 2:08 AM, "Knowles Rich via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Well, this might be just the right time to float a theory I've had for
> some time about "prop walk".  Here it is:
>
> When the propellor is spinning, it produces a rotating horizontal column
> or spinning cylinder of water molecules which move away from the propellor
> along its axis. When the boat is going forward, this rotating column is
> left in the wake and, other than being split equally by the rudder as the
> boat moves forward, the spinning column has little to no effect on the
> directional performance of the boat as it is left behind in the wake and
> gradually dissipates.
>
> When the propellor is put in reverse, forcing water to the front of the
> boat as it pulls the hull backwards, the column of spinning water leaving
> the prop is no longer free to dissipate in the wake, but encounters the
> hull of the boat immediately in front of the propellor. If you consider the
> column of water as a spinning cylinder made up of molecules of water, the
> outer wall of the cylinder striking the hull will cause it to roll up the
> side of the boat away from the keel and toward the surface, and the
> spinning molecules in the interior of the cylinder will be directed away
> from the centre line of the hull and off to the side.
>
> To see this in action, put your stationary boat in reverse and note on
> which side of the boat the water is agitated. If you have a right handed
> prop that turns left when in reverse, the column of water will be directed
> to the starboard side of the boat and will therefore push the stern of the
> boat to port. If you have a left handed propellor that turns to the right
> in reverse, the column of water will be directed to the port or left side
> of the boat pushing the stern to starboard. Thus the much cursed and very
> useful affect known as prop walk.
>
> Just my theory, but it seems to work for me. Comments welcomed.
>
> Cheers
>
> Rich
>
> Rich Knowles
> Nanaimo, BC
> INDIGO LF38
> Almost sold (really!) in Halifax, NS.
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 15, 2015, at 07:51, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Prop walk is a function of the asymmetrical thrust produced by the angle
> of the shaft / rotational angle of the blades vs the water surface.  The
> more downward angle on the prop / the longer the blade has to travel going
> from bottom towards the surface compared to the blade that goes from top to
> bottom.  Longer path = more thrust per rotation for that blade = unequal
> thrust.. Pretty simple concept.
> See here: http://www.castlemarine.co.uk/propwalk.pdf
>
> Increasing either pitch or diameter affects prop walk and so does prop
> design.  While efficient for sailing due to a typically smaller diameter,
> the Campbell Sailer is known for pretty bad prop walk..
>
> With a little practice prop walk can be useful when you need to pivot or
> crab sideways.  I use a Martec folder which is also known for dismal
> reverse / prop walk.  For what I do, neither bothers me at all.  When I
> don't want prop walk I just give it a smooth burst of reverse thrust then
> put it in neutral / glide precisely where I want.  (I always back into my
> slip)
>
> Good luck,
>
> -Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, GA.
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