Re: Stus-List C trademark stripe.

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Available at most automotive parts stores.  I used one this Spring to remove 
the old home port of the transom of Persistence.  Persistence is a painted hull 
(Awlgrip I am assuming) and this tool did not harm the paint

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 9:19 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List C trademark stripe.


Get a 3M Stripe Off wheel and remove the old tape.  It's basically a round 
rubber eraser on a mandrel.  10 minutes a side.

3M part 07498

Dennis C.
On Sep 22, 2015 11:02 AM, "David via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
We are re-doing ours as well.  Can you apply tape over old tape after cleaning 
thoroughly?

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:59:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Stus-List C trademark stripe.
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
CC: billbinal...@gmail.com

Any place that sells autobody supplies can get you scotchlite tape in any color 
and width you like. It lasts about 20-30 years.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/ScotchliteNA/Scotchlite/

Bill Bina
On 9/22/2015 10:21 AM, Mitchell's via CnC-List wrote:

The paint in my recessed stripes and stars is fading and peeling. Anyone have 
success with tape? How long tape will it last in the sun? Where did you get the 
tape?

Len Mitchell

Crazy Legs

1989 37+



Sent from my mobile device.

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Stus-List Boat Names

[mike amirault via CnC-List]

When my psycologist friend was looking for a name for his Mirage 25, I 
suggested "Freudian Sloop" ; the name stuck and he has a Freud graphic on the 
stern. When I bought my own Mirage 25, I named it "Mental Floss" (Jimmy Buffett 
tune)  My current C II is named "Lovely Cruise" (also Jimmy Buffett) which 
is probably appropriate given our performance on the race course. ;) ___

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Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

[david via CnC-List]

Thanks guys. Confirmed my thoughts and what information I had found online. I
also had another survey situation with the wire nuts being a no-no so I know
about that one already.
 
David Donnelly
C 26 Mistress

> On September 23, 2015 at 8:57 AM Frederick G Street via CnC-List
>  wrote:
> 
>  The biggest difference I’ve seen is price; put the word “marine” or “boat” on
> anything and the cost goes up.
>   
>  As with the others, I’ve had good luck with a good GFCI from Home Depot; you
> may need to put a bigger back-box in, though, as they don’t wire too well into
> standard electrical boxes as they’re so big.  Also, NO WIRE NUTS!!!  And you
> should use locking fork terminals that snap over the screws, rather than try
> to wrap the wire around and tighten the screw (that doesn't satisfy the ABYC
> standards):
>   
> 
> http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02650968?src=pla=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_003=7867724_010=02650968
> 
> 
>  Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>  S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
> 
> 
>  > >   
> > 
> >  >___

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Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet w/ USB?

[PME via CnC-List]

My old 29mk1 was setup with one GFCI protecting all outlets.  Have you verified 
that the head outlet is
 separate by tripping the GFCI and seeing if there is still power? 


On another note,  they now have combination USB-120VAC outlets.  Does anyone 
know if it comes in a GFCI version?


-
Paul E.
1981 C 38 Landfall 
S/V Johanna Rose
Carrabelle, FL

> On Sep 23, 2015, at 10:17 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2015 21:54:02 -0600
> From: "David Donnelly" >
> To: >
> Subject: Stus-List GFCI Outlet
> Message-ID: <00d901d0f5b3$7fef1370$7fcd3a50$@gnuattitude.ca 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> So if on a survey it was noted that the 120V receptacle in the head is not a
> GFCI (as this was not required during original construction) and the
> recommendation is to change it to a GFCI outlet as per ABYC standards. Is it
> enough to change just the one receptacle and if so what is the difference
> between a hardware store "weather proof" or a marine equivalent. A search of
> the web has brought me nothing definitive although it is possible the marine
> variety is tinned and able to accommodate stranded wire vs solid wire like
> would be used in a home.
> 
> 
> 
> Bad thing is we don't even have access to shore power on our lake...but
> standards are standards where insurance is concerned.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> David Donnelly 
> 
> C 26 Mistress

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Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

“Weatherproof” is the outlet box and cover, not the actual GFCI outlet.  
Something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Bell-5180-0-Horizontal-Weatherproof/dp/B000C14XKA/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8=1443019048=8-5=weatherproof+outlet+cover
http://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Bell-5101-1-Horizontal-Weatherproof/dp/B000BVZAX0/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8=1443019102=8-3=weatherproof+outlet+cover+gfci

I used these for my outlets in the v-berth because spay and rain coming in the 
hatch can possibly get on the outlets. You would want these for your head for 
general safety and taking a shower in there if you ever do.

Joe
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of david via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 10:26 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: david
Subject: Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

Thanks guys. Confirmed my thoughts and what information I had found online. I 
also had another survey situation with the wire nuts being a no-no so I know 
about that one already.

David Donnelly
C 26 Mistress
On September 23, 2015 at 8:57 AM Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
> wrote:

The biggest difference I’ve seen is price; put the word “marine” or “boat” on 
anything and the cost goes up.

As with the others, I’ve had good luck with a good GFCI from Home Depot; you 
may need to put a bigger back-box in, though, as they don’t wire too well into 
standard electrical boxes as they’re so big.  Also, NO WIRE NUTS!!!  And you 
should use locking fork terminals that snap over the screws, rather than try to 
wrap the wire around and tighten the screw (that doesn't satisfy the ABYC 
standards):

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02650968?src=pla=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_003=7867724_010=02650968

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI


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Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

The biggest difference I’ve seen is price; put the word “marine” or “boat” on 
anything and the cost goes up.

As with the others, I’ve had good luck with a good GFCI from Home Depot; you 
may need to put a bigger back-box in, though, as they don’t wire too well into 
standard electrical boxes as they’re so big.  Also, NO WIRE NUTS!!!  And you 
should use locking fork terminals that snap over the screws, rather than try to 
wrap the wire around and tighten the screw (that doesn't satisfy the ABYC 
standards):

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02650968?src=pla=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_003=7867724_010=02650968

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Sep 23, 2015, at 12:00 AM, Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I did the same as Jim, installed  hardware store GFI outlets in both the 
> galley and head. Each being on different circuits. That was 8 years ago and 
> no issues using them on a daily basis. 
> Doug Mountjoy
> sv  Pegasus 
> LF38
> Ballard WA
> 
> 
> Doug Mountjoy
> sv Pegasus 
> LF38
> just west of Ballard, WA
> 
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 8:54 PM, David Donnelly via CnC-List 
> > wrote:
> So if on a survey it was noted that the 120V receptacle in the head is not a 
> GFCI (as this was not required during original construction) and the 
> recommendation is to change it to a GFCI outlet as per ABYC standards. Is it 
> enough to change just the one receptacle and if so what is the difference 
> between a hardware store “weather proof” or a marine equivalent. A search of 
> the web has brought me nothing definitive although it is possible the marine 
> variety is tinned and able to accommodate stranded wire vs solid wire like 
> would be used in a home.
> 
>  
> 
> Bad thing is we don’t even have access to shore power on our lake…..but 
> standards are standards where insurance is concerned.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
> David Donnelly 
> 
> C 26 Mistress
> 

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Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

[Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List]

Leviton has a "slim profile GFCI outlet that fits in tight boxes.



Bill Bina

On 9/23/2015 9:57 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List wrote:
The biggest difference I’ve seen is price; put the word “marine” or 
“boat” on anything and the cost goes up.


As with the others, I’ve had good luck with a good GFCI from Home 
Depot; you may need to put a bigger back-box in, though, as they don’t 
wire too well into standard electrical boxes as they’re so big.  Also, 
NO WIRE NUTS!!!  And you should use /locking/ fork terminals that snap 
over the screws, rather than try to wrap the wire around and tighten 
the screw (that doesn't satisfy the ABYC standards):


http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02650968?src=pla=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_003=7867724_010=02650968

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

On Sep 23, 2015, at 12:00 AM, Douglas Mountjoy via CnC-List 
 wrote:


I did the same as Jim, installed hardware store GFI outlets in both 
the galley and head. Each being on different circuits. That was 8 
years ago and no issues using them on a daily basis.

Doug Mountjoy
sv  Pegasus
LF38
Ballard WA


Doug Mountjoy
sv Pegasus
LF38
just west of Ballard, WA

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 8:54 PM, David Donnelly via 
CnC-List>wrote:


So if on a survey it was noted that the 120V receptacle in the
head is not a GFCI (as this was not required during original
construction) and the recommendation is to change it to a GFCI
outlet as per ABYC standards. Is it enough to change just the one
receptacle and if so what is the difference between a hardware
store “weather proof” or a marine equivalent. A search of the web
has brought me nothing definitive although it is possible the
marine variety is tinned and able to accommodate stranded wire vs
solid wire like would be used in a home.

Bad thing is we don’t even have access to shore power on our
lake…..but standards are standards where insurance is concerned.

Thanks

David Donnelly

C 26 Mistress





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Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Sorry, that was the wrong link — those are for 1/4” bolts.  This is the correct 
one for #10 bolts:

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02650943 


And this one for #8 bolts:

http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02650992

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Sep 23, 2015, at 8:57 AM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> The biggest difference I’ve seen is price; put the word “marine” or “boat” on 
> anything and the cost goes up.
> 
> As with the others, I’ve had good luck with a good GFCI from Home Depot; you 
> may need to put a bigger back-box in, though, as they don’t wire too well 
> into standard electrical boxes as they’re so big.  Also, NO WIRE NUTS!!!  And 
> you should use locking fork terminals that snap over the screws, rather than 
> try to wrap the wire around and tighten the screw (that doesn't satisfy the 
> ABYC standards):
> 
> http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02650968?src=pla=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test_003=7867724_010=02650968
>  
> 
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
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Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

[Syerdave--- via CnC-List]

worked for Hubbell for 21 years  There is no standard specifying what 
constitutes marine grade, so, the difference could simply be the label.  The 
GFCI, despite being a safety device, is built offshore to a price, driven that 
way by the residential construction market.  The marine variant might be 
upgraded in some basic ways (visible plating) or might not, and this will vary 
by manufacturer. Years ago, manufacturers built better stuff and did not 
focus so much on standardization and cost.   To be fair, most customers are not 
willing to pay for better, when good enough will do.   
GFCIs have provision to protect downstream devices, but they must be wired 
accordingly. The GFCI first, and the downstream receptacles connected to the 
purpose-specific terminals on that GFCI.   Note that this means that the 
cumulative ground leakage for the downstream portion are now "seen" by the 
GFCI, and "nuisance tripping" could be a result. 
Are you worried about safety or compliance?
I think the biggest safety issue is not in the head but somewhere else, 
probably when working on the boat.  (how often do you use 110v appliances 
concurrent with the presence of standing water  in the head?  At home sure, but 
in the boat?  In two years I have never used the receptacle in the head. )
IMO to do this right, install a GFCI receptacle or module as far upstream as 
possible, but after the 15A branch circuit breaker (in the 33ii there are two 
circuits, port and starboard, I think.)   protecting as a priority the 
receptacles where you are most likely to be using 120v - fans, tools.  .   
One thing to check, and I don't know the answer, is whether or not you are 
protected on circuits energized by an inverter.   GFCIs don't or at least 
didn't always work without a real ground reference.   (Gensets as an example - 
years ago this created a great deal of confusion WRT workplace safety 
practices.)
Dave

 




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Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

[S Thomas via CnC-List]

Most inverters sold now (I know, not all) are isolated from the ground, and 
should NOT have one side grounded, but the new GFCIs are not dependent on 
the existence of an earth ground. It is legal to install 3 pronged GFCI 
receptacles in older houses without separate ground wires where I live, 
because the GFCI works by detecting any difference in the current flowing in 
the 2 wires. There is no separate earth ground available in that situation.


The GFCI circuits might also be affected by the harmonic content of the 
"quasi" sinewave inverters, but I have not tried it. The waveform from these 
inverters is a rectangle, tuned to minimise the third harmonic. Not all 
loads like that sort of power, but everything I have tried so far seems to 
work ok.


Steve Thomas


- Original Message - 
From: "Syerdave--- via CnC-List" 

To: 
Cc: "syerd...@gmail.com" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 12:17
Subject: Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet


worked for Hubbell for 21 years  There is no standard specifying what 
constitutes marine grade, so, the difference could simply be the label. 
The GFCI, despite being a safety device, is built offshore to a price, 
driven that way by the residential construction market.  The marine 
variant might be upgraded in some basic ways (visible plating) or might 
not, and this will vary by manufacturer. Years ago, manufacturers 
built better stuff and did not focus so much on standardization and cost. 
To be fair, most customers are not willing to pay for better, when good 
enough will do.
GFCIs have provision to protect downstream devices, but they must be wired 
accordingly. The GFCI first, and the downstream receptacles connected to 
the purpose-specific terminals on that GFCI.   Note that this means that 
the cumulative ground leakage for the downstream portion are now "seen" by 
the GFCI, and "nuisance tripping" could be a result.

Are you worried about safety or compliance?
I think the biggest safety issue is not in the head but somewhere else, 
probably when working on the boat.  (how often do you use 110v appliances 
concurrent with the presence of standing water  in the head?  At home 
sure, but in the boat?  In two years I have never used the receptacle in 
the head. )
IMO to do this right, install a GFCI receptacle or module as far upstream 
as possible, but after the 15A branch circuit breaker (in the 33ii there 
are two circuits, port and starboard, I think.)   protecting as a priority 
the receptacles where you are most likely to be using 120v - fans, tools. 
.
One thing to check, and I don't know the answer, is whether or not you are 
protected on circuits energized by an inverter.   GFCIs don't or at least 
didn't always work without a real ground reference.   (Gensets as an 
example - years ago this created a great deal of confusion WRT workplace 
safety practices.)

Dave




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Re: Stus-List Re; Boat names

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

There's a C 40 here on Lake Ontario named "Vatican II
"
that's been for sale for a while. It's a centerboard model and nicely
outfitted for cruising. Any connection?
Has a big crucifix on both sides. Not really my cup of tea but unique
anyway.

Steve
Suhana, C 32
Toronto

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> My dad met a fellow in Vancouver who sold him on the C 27...and the
> brand. The fellow's name was Mike Pope, so naturally enough, his boat was
> called Vatican.
>
> Andy
> C 40
> Peregrine
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Robert Gallagher via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> My first boat, C 30MKI was named Trysail.  The previous owner sold
>> Flying Scotts (I think) at one time so it was a play on words.  She still
>> carries that name.
>>
>> My new boat, C 30 MKII, was named Lagniappe when I purchased her.  Talk
>> about a mouth full and a triple repeat on the spelling when calling a
>> bridge, marina, or vessel.  After the delivery trip North from Annapolis to
>> Mystic I changed the name.  I got tired of repeating myself.  Didn't like
>> the name myself, but anyone from New Orleans seemed to love it, reminded
>> them of home.
>>
>> So I renamed my current boat HANUMAN.  Seems simple enough and I'm still
>> amused that most folks can't pronounce it, nor spell it.  HA NEW MAN.
>>
>> Hanuman is a very prevalent character in the Ramayana and his picture is
>> probably hanging on the wall in every Indian restaurant in the world.
>> Millions of kids watch him in cartoons.  He's carved into every early
>> Buddhist/Hindu temple across Asia.  I just happen to be on the wrong side
>> of the world now and I guess I spent to much time in Asia.
>>
>> Oddly enough, Hanuman is also the namesake of one of the J Class yachts.
>> The owner has spinnaker graphics similar to the tattoo on my leg. :)
>>  Fortunately, I had the tattoo longer so I can say he stole my idea..lol
>> It's the Khmer version of Hanuman carved into the the temples of Cambodia,
>> Laos, Thailand and Burma/Myanmar.
>>
>> Anyway, the Ramayana is one of those books everyone should read, or at
>> least try to, once in their life.
>>
>> I hope I didn't put anyone to sleep with this tale
>>
>> Rob
>> C 30 MKII
>> HANUMAN
>> Noank, CT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> phone  +401 965 5260
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

My GFCIs trip when tested on inverter power. Grounding and inverters is a 
complicated subject. "Real" marine certified inverters with internal cut-over 
switches will work one way and the various cheap consumer units not intended to 
be hardwired could work any possible way. 
Joe DB
Coquina

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of S Thomas via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 1:00 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: S Thomas
Subject: Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet

Most inverters sold now (I know, not all) are isolated from the ground, and 
should NOT have one side grounded, but the new GFCIs are not dependent on the 
existence of an earth ground. It is legal to install 3 pronged GFCI receptacles 
in older houses without separate ground wires where I live, because the GFCI 
works by detecting any difference in the current flowing in the 2 wires. There 
is no separate earth ground available in that situation.

The GFCI circuits might also be affected by the harmonic content of the "quasi" 
sinewave inverters, but I have not tried it. The waveform from these inverters 
is a rectangle, tuned to minimise the third harmonic. Not all loads like that 
sort of power, but everything I have tried so far seems to work ok.

Steve Thomas


- Original Message -
From: "Syerdave--- via CnC-List" 
To: 
Cc: "syerd...@gmail.com" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 12:17
Subject: Re: Stus-List GFCI Outlet


> worked for Hubbell for 21 years  There is no standard specifying what 
> constitutes marine grade, so, the difference could simply be the label. 
> The GFCI, despite being a safety device, is built offshore to a price, 
> driven that way by the residential construction market.  The marine 
> variant might be upgraded in some basic ways (visible plating) or might 
> not, and this will vary by manufacturer. Years ago, manufacturers 
> built better stuff and did not focus so much on standardization and cost. 
> To be fair, most customers are not willing to pay for better, when good 
> enough will do.
> GFCIs have provision to protect downstream devices, but they must be wired 
> accordingly. The GFCI first, and the downstream receptacles connected to 
> the purpose-specific terminals on that GFCI.   Note that this means that 
> the cumulative ground leakage for the downstream portion are now "seen" by 
> the GFCI, and "nuisance tripping" could be a result.
> Are you worried about safety or compliance?
> I think the biggest safety issue is not in the head but somewhere else, 
> probably when working on the boat.  (how often do you use 110v appliances 
> concurrent with the presence of standing water  in the head?  At home 
> sure, but in the boat?  In two years I have never used the receptacle in 
> the head. )
> IMO to do this right, install a GFCI receptacle or module as far upstream 
> as possible, but after the 15A branch circuit breaker (in the 33ii there 
> are two circuits, port and starboard, I think.)   protecting as a priority 
> the receptacles where you are most likely to be using 120v - fans, tools. 
> .
> One thing to check, and I don't know the answer, is whether or not you are 
> protected on circuits energized by an inverter.   GFCIs don't or at least 
> didn't always work without a real ground reference.   (Gensets as an 
> example - years ago this created a great deal of confusion WRT workplace 
> safety practices.)
> Dave
>


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