Stus-List C&C 25 MkI

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Hi Rick, 
I'm curious about the 25 model. I looked thru the brochures on the 
cncphotoalbum.com site and did not find the MkI '73 or '75 C&C 25 listed. The 
brochures appear to be 80's vintage. I think our local yard has MkI 25? It has 
a cabin top that fairs into the foredeck, no bump, and a very swept back keel. 

Anybody have the brochure for this model? 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Rick Brass"  
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 9:44:50 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25 



>From the pictures you sent, it appears that the fiberglass layup is virtually 
>identical to the layup in my early 1975 model. I have the same raised area of 
>fiberglass under one of the keel bolts, and also the same strip if roving 
>athwart the bilge and extending up under the cockpit sole. 



I am interested in the irregular hole in the sole that you show in photo #1. My 
bilge is accessed through a long rectangular opening in the sole, and the edges 
of the sole are recessed to take a rectangular teak board. So all of my keel 
bolts are accessible through the same rectangular opening. 



When I bought Belle in May, 1994 she had a C&C smile – though I did not know 
what that was at the time. On someone’s recommendation I opened up the crack, 
laid in sealant (maybe 5200?), faired over the sealant, and finished painting 
the bottom. When I hauled out that October, the smile was back. 



Belle also has rust in the bilge. My keel nuts were stainless, but there were 
what was left of galvanized washers under the nuts. I can’t quite determine if 
your keel nuts are stainless or galvanized – but the keel bolts and nuts on 
Belle were obviously clean stainless and still pretty shiny as I recall. 



Anyway, over the first winter I discovered a precursor to this list and learned 
about the C&C smile and proper keel bolt torque. I had some new stainless 
backing plates made from stainless (3/16” or ¼” thick) and before the spring 
launch I replaced all the rusted backing plates with stainless (one bolt at a 
time) and properly torqued the keel bolts. Then re-faired the smile and applied 
bottom paint. I re-torqued the bolts during a haul out in about 2003 or 2004 
(they did not seem to have loosened any in the intervening 8 or 9 years). When 
Belle was last hauled a couple of years ago, there was still no evidence of a 
smile. 



Rick Brass 

Imzadi C&C 38 mk 2 

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 

Washington, NC 




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Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

- Original Message -

From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Rick Brass"  
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 9:44:50 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25 



>From the pictures you sent, it appears that the fiberglass layup is virtually 
>identical to the layup in my early 1975 model. I have the same raised area of 
>fiberglass under one of the keel bolts, and also the same strip if roving 
>athwart the bilge and extending up under the cockpit sole. 



I am interested in the irregular hole in the sole that you show in photo #1. My 
bilge is accessed through a long rectangular opening in the sole, and the edges 
of the sole are recessed to take a rectangular teak board. So all of my keel 
bolts are accessible through the same rectangular opening. 



When I bought Belle in May, 1994 she had a C&C smile – though I did not know 
what that was at the time. On someone’s recommendation I opened up the crack, 
laid in sealant (maybe 5200?), faired over the sealant, and finished painting 
the bottom. When I hauled out that October, the smile was back. 



Belle also has rust in the bilge. My keel nuts were stainless, but there were 
what was left of galvanized washers under the nuts. I can’t quite determine if 
your keel nuts are stainless or galvanized – but the keel bolts and nuts on 
Belle were obviously clean stainless and still pretty shiny as I recall. 



Anyway, over the first winter I discovered a precursor to this list and learned 
about the C&C smile and proper keel bolt torque. I had some new stainless 
backing plates made from stainless (3/16” or ¼” thick) and before the spring 
launch I replaced all the rusted backing plates with stainless (one bolt at a 
time) and properly torqued the keel bolts. Then re-faired the smile and applied 
bottom paint. I re-torqued the bolts during a haul out in about 2003 or 2004 
(they did not seem to have loosened any in the intervening 8 or 9 years). When 
Belle was last hauled a couple of years ago, there was still no evidence of a 
smile. 



Rick Brass 

Imzadi C&C 38 mk 2 

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 

Washington, NC 







From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ahmet via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 2:30 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Ahmet  
Subject: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25 




Hi everybody, 


Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I realized 
that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but really not a 
daysailor :) 





I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat. 





Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I am 
dealing with: 





There was excessive rust (Picture 1) in the bilge. After cleaning it up I 
discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer and a backing plate 
under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the 1.5 inch nut with and 
the 3 inch washer is in great shape ,whatever once was under the washer is 
almost totally rusted off . In some areas 1/3 or more of the washer is up in 
air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. (Picture 2) and what is left, I 
am afraid, is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted 
metal pieces. 





Also there was a very sloppy work in the area where the bilge sump is, such 
that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the washer. 
(Picture 3) . The washer is halfway in the air and not totally aligned with the 
keelbolt. This one is the part that concerns me the most. 


Also on that picture you can see parts of the mat having cured in odd shapes , 
in front of the bolt. 





Perhaps someone at one time has done reinforcing, because I see a substantial 
layer (almost 1/2 in) additional layer of mat about 10 inches wide laid up 
across the bilge on the keelbolt areas. (Picture 4) 





Interestingly, there is no water intrusion into the bilge, and no C&C smile . I 
suspect it has been this way for years. 





I would like to remove the keelbolts , one at a time, get rid of the rusty 
part, fair out the bottom of the bilge and install new washers. 





Unfortunately the boat is in the water for wet winter storage. My question is, 
should I wait until I haul out next spring to do the bottom paint to do this 
job, or should I do it now. I have more time over the winter than I will have 
next spring. 





Also, I see no trace of any 5200 or similar under the washers. Although I have 
no leaks, I will add that. 








My questions are:, 


· Is it possible that this sloppy work was done at the factory, considering 
that this is a 1973 model ? 

· Did anybody else have similar issues, if so, any words of wisdom ? :) 

· Could I safely do this in the water ? 

· Any suggestions, besides using mat and epoxy to build up the area around the 
exposed bolt in (Picture 3) . 





Many thanks in advance 





Ahmet 


Winthrop Yacht Club 

Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

>From the pictures you sent, it appears that the fiberglass layup is virtually 
>identical to the layup in my early 1975 model. I have the same raised area of 
>fiberglass under one of the keel bolts, and also the same strip if roving 
>athwart the bilge and extending up under the cockpit sole.

 

I am interested in the irregular hole in the sole that you show in photo #1. My 
bilge is accessed through a long rectangular opening in the sole, and the edges 
of the sole are recessed to take a rectangular teak board. So all of my keel 
bolts are accessible through the same rectangular opening.

 

When I bought Belle in May, 1994 she had a C&C smile – though I did not know 
what that was at the time. On someone’s recommendation I opened up the crack, 
laid in sealant (maybe 5200?), faired over the sealant, and finished painting 
the bottom. When I hauled out that October, the smile was back.

 

Belle also has rust in the bilge. My keel nuts were stainless, but there were 
what was left of galvanized washers under the nuts. I can’t quite determine if 
your keel nuts are stainless or galvanized – but the keel bolts and nuts on 
Belle were obviously clean stainless and still pretty shiny as I recall.

 

Anyway, over the first winter I discovered a precursor to this list and learned 
about the C&C smile and proper keel bolt torque. I had some new stainless 
backing plates made from stainless (3/16” or ¼” thick) and before the spring 
launch I replaced all the rusted backing plates with stainless (one bolt at a 
time) and properly torqued the keel bolts. Then re-faired the smile and applied 
bottom paint. I re-torqued the bolts during a haul out in about 2003 or 2004 
(they did not seem to have loosened any in the intervening 8 or 9 years). When 
Belle was last hauled a couple of years ago, there was still no evidence of a 
smile.

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C&C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ahmet via 
CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 2:30 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ahmet 
Subject: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

 

Hi everybody,

Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I realized 
that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but really not a 
daysailor :)

 

I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat. 

 

Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I am 
dealing with: 

 

There was excessive rust (Picture 1) 
  in the bilge.  After cleaning it 
up I discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer and a backing 
plate under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the 1.5 inch nut with 
and the 3 inch washer is in great shape,whatever once was under the washer is 
almost totally rusted off. In some areas 1/3 or more of the washer is up in 
air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. (Picture 2) 
   and what is left, I am afraid, 
is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted metal pieces.

 

Also there was a very sloppy work in the area where the bilge sump is, such 
that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the washer. 
(Picture 3)  . The washer is 
halfway in the air and not totally aligned with the keelbolt. This one is the 
part that concerns me the most. 

Also on that picture you can see parts of the mat having cured in odd shapes, 
in front of the bolt.

 

Perhaps someone at one time has done reinforcing, because I see a substantial 
layer (almost 1/2 in) additional layer of mat about 10 inches wide laid up 
across the bilge on the keelbolt areas.  (Picture 4) 
 

 

Interestingly, there is no water intrusion into the bilge, and no C&C smile. I 
suspect it has been this way for years. 

 

I would like to remove the keelbolts, one at a time, get rid of the rusty part, 
fair out the bottom of the bilge and install new washers.

 

Unfortunately the boat is in the water for wet winter storage.  My question is, 
should I wait until I haul out next spring to do the bottom paint to do this 
job, or should I do it now. I have more time over the winter than I will have 
next spring.

 

Also, I see no trace of any 5200 or similar under the washers. Although I have 
no leaks, I will add that. 

 

 

My questions are:, 

*Is it possible that this sloppy work was done at the factory, 
considering that this is a 1973 model ?

*Did anybody else have similar issues, if so, any words of wisdom ? :)  

*Could I safely do this in the water ?

*Any suggestions, besides using mat and epoxy to build up the area 
around the exposed bolt in  (Picture 3) 
 . 

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Ahmet

Winthrop Y

Re: Stus-List Fwd: Replacing Windows

[JP Mail via CnC-List]

We are using a surveyor we've worked with before. Jim Dias out of ct


Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2015, at 7:20 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Who is the surveyor?
> Gary
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 12:52 PM, JP Mail via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Just joined the list, minutes ago. Hopefully a new C&C owner after the 
>> survey in 10 days. Enjoyed the boat works video. Noticed the the East 
>> Greenwich RI tag after Gary's name. That is where the survey will take 
>> place. Small world. Sorry for the hijack. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That boatworks guy has some great videos. Thanks for the link!
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> Suhana, C&C 32
>>> Toronto
>>> 
 On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 Fred,
  Please note that the 3M VHB tape is available in black, eliminating 
 (I think) the need for Fusion Black paint.
 Gary
 S/V High Maintenance
 1990 C&C 37 Plus
 East Greenwich, RI, USA
 
 ~~~_/)~~
 
 
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape 
> method.  See link below:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> 1999 C&C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert  wrote:
>> Gary:
>> 
>> I sent you the process I used 'off list'.
>> 
>> The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure 
>> how much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you 
>> take the old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 
>> 295 UV with the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would 
>> hold the curved window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.
>> 
>> Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace 
>> them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' 
>> email to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>> 
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C&C 32 - 84
>> Halifax, N.S.
>> 
>>
>> 
>>> On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
>>> Fred,
>>>  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to 
>>> look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the 
>>> winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the 
>>> gray VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the 
>>> VHB tape will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so 
>>> the windows will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the 
>>> cabin.  I wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick  
>>>  acrylic trying to  return to a flat shape?
>>> 
>>> Gary
>>> 
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the 
 winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this 
 time, I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul 
 did on Johanna Rose: 
 http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
 
 I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
 
 — Fred
 
 Fred Street -- Minneapolis
 S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
 
> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 
> 5/16"  It amazes me that   people with no 
> marine design experience would change the design.  I plan to go with 
> 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
> 
> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is 
> less scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably 
> trading one problem for another.
> 
>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in 
> the Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big 
> if) the bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass 
> beads to the adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get 
> thinner than 0.030".
> 
>  Thoughts, anyone?
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C&C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
 
 
 _

Re: Stus-List Fwd: Replacing Windows

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Who is the surveyor?
Gary

~~~_/)~~


On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 12:52 PM, JP Mail via CnC-List  wrote:

> Just joined the list, minutes ago. Hopefully a new C&C owner after the
> survey in 10 days. Enjoyed the boat works video. Noticed the the East
> Greenwich RI tag after Gary's name. That is where the survey will take
> place. Small world. Sorry for the hijack.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> That boatworks  guy has some
> great videos. Thanks for the link!
>
> Steve
> Suhana, C&C 32
> Toronto
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Fred,
>>  Please note that the 3M VHB tape is available in black, eliminating
>> (I think) the need for Fusion Black paint.
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> 1990 C&C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape
>>> method.  See link below:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> S/V High Maintenance
>>> 1999 C&C 37 Plus
>>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Gary:

 I sent you the process I used 'off list'.

 The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure
 how much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you take
 the old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 295 UV
 with the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would hold the
 curved window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.

 Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace
 them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' email
 to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.

 Rob Abbott
 AZURA
 C&C 32 - 84
 Halifax, N.S.



 On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:

 Fred,
  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to
 look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the
 winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the gray
 VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB tape
 will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the windows
 will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the cabin.  I
 wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick acrylic trying to
  return to a flat shape?

 Gary

 ~~~_/)~~


 On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the
> winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time,
> I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on
> Johanna Rose: http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
>
>
> I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield,
> WI   :^(
>
> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has
> 5/16"  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would
> change the design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>
> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is
> less scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading
> one problem for another.
>
>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in
> the Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) 
> the
> bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
> adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
>
>  Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C&C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>


 ___

 Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 To change your list preferences, including unsubs

Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Rick Taillieu via CnC-List]

Ahmet,

 

Mine does have a sump towards the aft end of where the keel bolts are, that’s 
where I have the intake for the bilge pump routed.

Not so funny story: 

C&C had good days and bad days when they were laying up the hulls. I bought my 
boat in the summer of ’99, in the spring of 2000 I had the bottom soda blasted.

While cleaning up the bottom before putting in the Interprotect, I was opening 
up some small imperfections with a dremel tool.

I hit one small mark at the aft end of the keel sump and all of a sudden the 
antifreeze that I  had put in the bulge for the winter, started flowing out.

One it stopped I had a good look from outside and inside the bilge. It looked 
like there was a large air bubble in the layup of the hull and the only thing 
that was keeping the boat afloat for the 25 years before I bought the boat was 
the layer of gelcoat. Needless to say that area was filled with epoxy and cut 
up fibreglass mat until I was satisfied that it was full and well sealed.

It is important to torque your keel bolts from time to time (mine are due now), 
when I torqued them for the first time I got at least one full turn on all of 
the nuts, some were more.

I moved my stanchions to the toerail too, much more room to pass through there 
and it’s easier to sheet the genoa inboard as well.

The 25 is a great boat to sail, you can single-hand it really easily and if you 
want to race it will sail to its rating.

If you have any questions on setting up the boat just give me a shout, I’m 
happy to help.

 

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25  #371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

 

  

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ahmet via 
CnC-List
Sent: November-07-15 17:01
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ahmet
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

 

Thank you. I would be interested to see if you have a sump area, i.e a 3 - 4 
inch dropoff in the bilge  which then slopes upwards towards the bow.  I am not 
sure how come that keel-bolt got exposed. 

 

I did a search for Tabasco on the list archives, and did not find any 
references. I bought it from an older gentlemen in Marblehead, MA.

 

He had been sailing her for a while but health issues have been preventing him. 
The boat was neglected to some point. All the wiring was laid up but not 
connected. The stanchions were leaking. 

 

Others have told me that too. Maybe it is a familiar sounding name. 

 

First thing I did is replace the stanchions with the aluminum toerail mounted 
ones and used wooden dowels soaked with 4200 and marinetex to get rid of  all 
holes from he old stanctions. So now the cabin is pretty dry. The hatch is 
leaking a bit but I think that is just the rubber gasket.

 

He lost the rigging last year so she has brand-new rigging, double, brand new 
heavy lifelines and a 4-stroke 2010 Nissan 9.9 hp engine. 

 

Thank You

 

Ahmet

Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA

1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"

1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"

 

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Rick Taillieu via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Ahmet,

 

My 25 was laid up in Nov ’74 and doesn’t look entirely like yours does.  

Mine has stainless washers under all the nuts

I’m going down to the boat tomorrow afternoon, I’ll take some pictures of my 
keel bolts and put them up on one of the hosting sites.

“Tabasco” sounds familiar, did you buy it from someone on the list?

 

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25  #371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ahmet via 
CnC-List
Sent: November-07-15 15:30
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ahmet
Subject: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

 

Hi everybody,

Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I realized 
that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but really not a 
daysailor :)

 

I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat. 

 

Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I am 
dealing with: 

 

There was excessive rust (Picture 1) 
  in the bilge.  After cleaning it 
up I discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer and a backing 
plate under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the 1.5 inch nut with 
and the 3 inch washer is in great shape,whatever once was under the washer is 
almost totally rusted off. In some areas 1/3 or more of the washer is up in 
air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. (Picture 2) 
   and what is left, I am afraid, 
is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted metal pieces.

 

Also there was a very sloppy work in the area where the bilge sump is, such 
that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the washer. 
(Picture 3)  . The washer is 
halfway in the air and

Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

I would hesitate to touch the keelbolts if it's not leaking. I wouldn't want to 
change anything, except maybe the one that shows exposed threads? You won't 
have a problem if you deal with one at a time, keeping the rest snug. But the 
best method is to haul the boat and block up the keel, so all the weight/strain 
is off the bolts. Your email with the embedded picture links was excellent and 
I look forward to your projects solution. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "Ahmet via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Ahmet"  
Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 4:04:13 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25 

Sorry folks, correction. I am planning on removing the keel nuts and washers , 
not the bolts. 


Ahmet 


Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA 


1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer" 


1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" 

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Ahmet via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
wrote: 



Hi everybody, 
Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I realized 
that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but really not a 
daysailor :) 

I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat. 

Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I am 
dealing with: 

There was excessive rust (Picture 1) in the bilge. After cleaning it up I 
discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer and a backing plate 
under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the 1.5 inch nut with and 
the 3 inch washer is in great shape ,whatever once was under the washer is 
almost totally rusted off . In some areas 1/3 or more of the washer is up in 
air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. (Picture 2) and what is left, I 
am afraid, is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted 
metal pieces. 

Also there was a very sloppy work in the area where the bilge sump is, such 
that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the washer. 
(Picture 3) . The washer is halfway in the air and not totally aligned with the 
keelbolt. This one is the part that concerns me the most. 
Also on that picture you can see parts of the mat having cured in odd shapes , 
in front of the bolt. 

Perhaps someone at one time has done reinforcing, because I see a substantial 
layer (almost 1/2 in) additional layer of mat about 10 inches wide laid up 
across the bilge on the keelbolt areas. (Picture 4) 

Interestingly, there is no water intrusion into the bilge, and no C&C smile . I 
suspect it has been this way for years. 

I would like to remove the keelbolts , one at a time, get rid of the rusty 
part, fair out the bottom of the bilge and install new washers. 

Unfortunately the boat is in the water for wet winter storage. My question is, 
should I wait until I haul out next spring to do the bottom paint to do this 
job, or should I do it now. I have more time over the winter than I will have 
next spring. 

Also, I see no trace of any 5200 or similar under the washers. Although I have 
no leaks, I will add that. 


My questions are:, 


* Is it possible that this sloppy work was done at the factory, considering 
that this is a 1973 model ? 
* Did anybody else have similar issues, if so, any words of wisdom ? :) 
* Could I safely do this in the water ? 
* Any suggestions, besides using mat and epoxy to build up the area around 
the exposed bolt in (Picture 3) . 

Many thanks in advance 

Ahmet 
Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA 
1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer" 
1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" 




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Re: Stus-List Help needed from Annapolis area sailors

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Neil, 
Read your story. How long has Annapolis Rigging had your stuff? Shame you 
didn't come to the boat show. You could have cornered them there. 
Be persistent. They should be open Saturday. I'll bet they lost your stuff, or 
never got started on it. 

Boy you missed a beautiful day Friday. I went sailing alone for 4 golden hours, 
80 degrees and winds were 8 to 15 knots, no chop, and bright sun. Most of the 
time I was hitting 4.4 dead down wind in the light stuff and 5.6 knots upwind, 
but occassionally I registered 6.6 with just the mainsail up. Twenty other 
boats out, a really fun day. I got sunburned in November. 

It's a 2.5 hour drive home but I just love the sailing on the Magothy and 
Chesapeake Bay. (Called out sick Thursday and Friday.) Gotta have priorities. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C&C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 


From: "Joe via CnC-List Della Barba"  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: "Joe Della Barba"  
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 11:54:52 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Help needed from Annapolis area sailors 



I just called them about lifelines and they are there. You can call right now. 

Joe 

Coquina 








From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Della Barba, 
Joe via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2015 11:00 AM 
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Help needed from Annapolis area sailors 




? 
I go to Annapolis frequently, but I am not sure what exactly is going on here. 

Annapolis rigging has your mast and will not answer the phone? 

Their contact info is: 

(410)269-8035 
(410) 216-9099 fax 

www.annapolisrigging.com 
j...@annapolisrigging.com 




If you call them right this second, what will they do? 



I am taking my lifelines over there soon to get a new set made and am willing 
to help, but I can foresee them declining to discuss business arrangements with 
other people. 



Joe Della Barba 

Coquina 

C&C 35 MK I 






From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Neil 
Andersen via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2015 10:33 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Neil Andersen 
Subject: Stus-List Help needed from Annapolis area sailors 




My friends and fellow sailors, 



2 years ago (literally), my boat was impacted when a neighboring boat fell over 
on to it. The furling system was damaged and the rigging (Navtec rod rigging) 
stressed requiring an inspection. Thus began a saga that is still ongoing. 



Initially a Rigger was contracted in Rock Hall to do the inspection, etc. He 
disappeared and when finally located we had to threaten legal action to get my 
property back (Mast and rigging). That was 2014. 



We then had the mast and rigging transferred to Annapolis Rigging for 
inspection and repair. It has been reported that they have everything to 
complete the repairs and reinstall. Some confusion seems to have occurred as 
the boat is out of the water in Worton Creek so Annapolis Rigging needs to go 
to the boat, the boat can’t come to them. (for the record, they had to come 
over to the Eastern shore to retrieve the mast in the first place). 



Here is where the ask is – Is anyone close enough to Annapolis Rigging to stop 
in and have them call me. BoatUS and I have been trying since August to reach 
them to get the estimate to approve for them to arrange for a crane, etc. to 
come and “ assemble mast, step mast, block and tune mast, install boom, run 
lines, and hook up electric ”. 



I am located about 7-8 hours from Annapolis and want to avoid taking off work 
to get this effort finished. 



Signed, 



Neil ”High and Dry” Andersen 



FoxFire, 1982 C&C 32 in Worton Creek, MD 
Auburn, NY 13021 -9261 

610-886-6559 (work/cell) 

neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com 

+++ 

The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the 
realist adjusts the sails. 



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Re: Stus-List Boom Furling complications

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

No, with a single spreader mast, it is a simple task (because you can connect 
the hook to a loop that slides up and down the mast). The difficulty with a 
double spreader mast is that the centre of gravity for the mast is somewhere 
half way between the spreaders, so that the loop would have to be attached (or 
detached) using a ladder.

Marek


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ron via 
CnC-List
Sent: November-07-15 12:17
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ron
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boom Furling complications

Does it have to be a double rig for this to work? 
Ron
C&c 30-1
Stl


Danny Haughey via CnC-List  wrote:

>Hi Merek.
>
>I couldn't agree with you more.  It's just, the more I think about it, how 
>much do I want to push them if they are afraid or worse, simply unwilling?  
>"It's not what we're used to so, we can't do it"  
>
>I'm beginning to believe the latter is the case.  Maybe they believe their 
>equipment is not up to the task...
>
>Thanks for the suggestion though.  I'm sure that's the way it could be done as 
>it is a double spreader rig.
>
>DannyOn Oct 29, 2015 11:37 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>>
>> Danny,
>>
>> You can always devise a bridle that would grab the mast by the spreaders 
>> (without putting any pressure on the back of the mast). You can get up to 
>> the spreaders using a small ladder (or get yourself lifted in a bosun’s 
>> chair or a harness). This is a reasonably standard practice if your mast has 
>> two set of spreaders (e.g. like mine).
>>
>>  
>>
>> Of course if the yard has its own way and does not want to listen to 
>> suggestions, you cannot do much. It helps if you demast on your own (how we 
>> do it in our Club) - you can fiddle to your heart’s desire.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>>  
>>
>> Marek
>>
>> 1994 C270 “Legato”
>>
>> Ottawa
>>
>>  
>>
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny 
>> Haughey via CnC-List
>> Sent: October-29-15 15:07
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Danny Haughey
>> Subject: Stus-List Boom Furling complications
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>  
>>
>> So, it seems the yard said they cannot remove the mast because of the sail 
>> track that rides up the mast track for the furling system.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I basically have two options where they are concerned.  Find another yard 
>> for storage or, wet store the boat in a slip.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I don't think I would mind the wet storage option if she wasn't in such a 
>> need for a bottom job.
>>
>>  
>>
>> What do you guys think?
>>
>>  
>>
>> The reason they cannot remove the mast is because they use a sling and the 
>> sling would damage the track...
>>
>>  
>>
>> Maybe someone can recommend a place nearby where I can store her on the 
>> hard.  i know not every yard requires the removal of the mast.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> Westport Point, MA
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>
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Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Ahmet via CnC-List]

Sorry folks, correction. I am planning on removing the *keel nuts and
washers*, not the bolts.

*Ahmet*

*Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA*

*1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"*

*1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"*

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Ahmet via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I
> realized that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but
> really not a daysailor :)
>
> I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat.
>
> Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I
> am dealing with:
>
> There was *excessive rust *(Picture 1)
>  in the bilge.  After
> cleaning it up I discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer
> and a backing plate under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the
> 1.5 inch nut with and the 3 inch washer is in great shape*,whatever once
> was under the washer is almost totally rusted off*. In some areas 1/3 or
> more of the washer is up in air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. 
> (Picture
> 2)   and what is left, I am
> afraid, is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted
> metal pieces.
>
> Also there was a *very sloppy work* in the area where the bilge sump is,
> such that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the
> washer. (Picture 3) . The *washer
> is halfway in the air* and not totally aligned with the keelbolt. This
> one is the part that concerns me the most.
> Also on that picture you can see parts of the mat having cured in *odd
> shapes*, in front of the bolt.
>
> Perhaps someone at one time has done reinforcing, because *I see a
> substantial layer *(almost 1/2 in) additional layer of mat about 10
> inches wide laid up across the bilge on the keelbolt areas.  (Picture 4)
> 
>
> Interestingly, there is *no water intrusion* into the bilge, and *no C&C
> smile*. I suspect it has been this way for years.
>
> I would like to *remove the keelbolts*, one at a time, get rid of the
> rusty part, fair out the bottom of the bilge and install new washers.
>
> Unfortunately the *boat is in the water *for wet winter storage.  My
> question is, should I wait until I haul out next spring to do the bottom
> paint to do this job, or should I do it now. I have more time over the
> winter than I will have next spring.
>
> Also, I see *no trace of any 5200 *or similar under the washers. Although
> I have no leaks, I will add that.
>
>
> My questions are:,
>
>- Is it possible that this sloppy work was done at the factory,
>considering that this is a 1973 model ?
>- Did anybody else have similar issues, if so, any words of wisdom ?
>:)
>- Could I safely do this in the water ?
>- Any suggestions, besides using mat and epoxy to build up the area
>around the exposed bolt in  (Picture 3)
>.
>
>
> Many thanks in advance
>
> *Ahmet*
> *Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA*
> *1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"*
> *1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"*
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Ahmet via CnC-List]

I am sorry, you are absolutely right, I meant the *keel nuts and washers*,
not bolts. I am, actually glad they are J - bolts, so there is no chance of
them coming off.

*Ahmet*

*Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA*

*1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"*

*1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"*



On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> You will not be able to remove the bolts without removing the keel and
> even then removing the bolts from the keel is not possible without
> destroying the keel.  The bolts are "J" or "L"  shaped and cast in place.
> I would remove the nut and stainless washer then clean up the threads as
> best possible while in place.  You can probably get away with one bolt at a
> time while in the water and then torque then properly at first haul out.
> If the hull to keel joint is sound I would not intentionally disturb it.
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
> On Nov 7, 2015 2:30 PM, "Ahmet via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi everybody,
>> Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I
>> realized that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but
>> really not a daysailor :)
>>
>> I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat.
>>
>> Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I
>> am dealing with:
>>
>> There was *excessive rust *(Picture 1)
>>  in the bilge.  After
>> cleaning it up I discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer
>> and a backing plate under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the
>> 1.5 inch nut with and the 3 inch washer is in great shape*,whatever once
>> was under the washer is almost totally rusted off*. In some areas 1/3 or
>> more of the washer is up in air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. 
>> (Picture
>> 2)   and what is left, I am
>> afraid, is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted
>> metal pieces.
>>
>> Also there was a *very sloppy work* in the area where the bilge sump is,
>> such that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the
>> washer. (Picture 3) . The *washer
>> is halfway in the air* and not totally aligned with the keelbolt. This
>> one is the part that concerns me the most.
>> Also on that picture you can see parts of the mat having cured in *odd
>> shapes*, in front of the bolt.
>>
>> Perhaps someone at one time has done reinforcing, because *I see a
>> substantial layer *(almost 1/2 in) additional layer of mat about 10
>> inches wide laid up across the bilge on the keelbolt areas.  (Picture 4)
>> 
>>
>> Interestingly, there is *no water intrusion* into the bilge, and *no C&C
>> smile*. I suspect it has been this way for years.
>>
>> I would like to *remove the keelbolts*, one at a time, get rid of the
>> rusty part, fair out the bottom of the bilge and install new washers.
>>
>> Unfortunately the *boat is in the water *for wet winter storage.  My
>> question is, should I wait until I haul out next spring to do the bottom
>> paint to do this job, or should I do it now. I have more time over the
>> winter than I will have next spring.
>>
>> Also, I see *no trace of any 5200 *or similar under the washers.
>> Although I have no leaks, I will add that.
>>
>>
>> My questions are:,
>>
>>- Is it possible that this sloppy work was done at the factory,
>>considering that this is a 1973 model ?
>>- Did anybody else have similar issues, if so, any words of wisdom ?
>>:)
>>- Could I safely do this in the water ?
>>- Any suggestions, besides using mat and epoxy to build up the area
>>around the exposed bolt in  (Picture 3)
>>.
>>
>>
>> Many thanks in advance
>>
>> *Ahmet*
>> *Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA*
>> *1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"*
>> *1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
> ___
>
> Email address:
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Ahmet via CnC-List]

Thank you. I would be interested to see if you have a sump area, i.e a 3 -
4 inch dropoff in the bilge  which then slopes upwards towards the bow.  I
am not sure how come that keel-bolt got exposed.

I did a search for Tabasco on the list archives, and did not find any
references. I bought it from an older gentlemen in Marblehead, MA.

He had been sailing her for a while but health issues have been preventing
him. The boat was neglected to some point. All the wiring was laid up but
not connected. The stanchions were leaking.

Others have told me that too. Maybe it is a familiar sounding name.

First thing I did is replace the stanchions with the aluminum toerail
mounted ones and used wooden dowels soaked with 4200 and marinetex to get
rid of  all holes from he old stanctions. So now the cabin is pretty dry.
The hatch is leaking a bit but I think that is just the rubber gasket.

He lost the rigging last year so she has brand-new rigging, double, brand
new heavy lifelines and a 4-stroke 2010 Nissan 9.9 hp engine.

Thank You


*Ahmet*

*Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA*

*1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"*

*1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"*

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Rick Taillieu via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Ahmet,
>
>
>
> My 25 was laid up in Nov ’74 and doesn’t look entirely like yours does.
>
> Mine has stainless washers under all the nuts
>
> I’m going down to the boat tomorrow afternoon, I’ll take some pictures of
> my keel bolts and put them up on one of the hosting sites.
>
> “Tabasco” sounds familiar, did you buy it from someone on the list?
>
>
>
> Rick Taillieu
>
> Nemesis
>
> '75 C&C 25  #371
>
> Shearwater Yacht Club
>
> Halifax, NS.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ahmet
> via CnC-List
> *Sent:* November-07-15 15:30
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Ahmet
> *Subject:* Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25
>
>
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I
> realized that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but
> really not a daysailor :)
>
>
>
> I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat.
>
>
>
> Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I
> am dealing with:
>
>
>
> There was *excessive rust *(Picture 1)
>  in the bilge.  After
> cleaning it up I discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer
> and a backing plate under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the
> 1.5 inch nut with and the 3 inch washer is in great shape*,whatever once
> was under the washer is almost totally rusted off*. In some areas 1/3 or
> more of the washer is up in air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. 
> (Picture
> 2)   and what is left, I am
> afraid, is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted
> metal pieces.
>
>
>
> Also there was a *very sloppy work* in the area where the bilge sump is,
> such that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the
> washer. (Picture 3) . The *washer
> is halfway in the air* and not totally aligned with the keelbolt. This
> one is the part that concerns me the most.
>
> Also on that picture you can see parts of the mat having cured in *odd
> shapes*, in front of the bolt.
>
>
>
> Perhaps someone at one time has done reinforcing, because *I see a
> substantial layer *(almost 1/2 in) additional layer of mat about 10
> inches wide laid up across the bilge on the keelbolt areas.  (Picture 4)
> 
>
>
>
> Interestingly, there is *no water intrusion* into the bilge, and *no C&C
> smile*. I suspect it has been this way for years.
>
>
>
> I would like to *remove the keelbolts*, one at a time, get rid of the
> rusty part, fair out the bottom of the bilge and install new washers.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately the *boat is in the water *for wet winter storage.  My
> question is, should I wait until I haul out next spring to do the bottom
> paint to do this job, or should I do it now. I have more time over the
> winter than I will have next spring.
>
>
>
> Also, I see *no trace of any 5200 *or similar under the washers. Although
> I have no leaks, I will add that.
>
>
>
>
>
> My questions are:,
>
>- Is it possible that this sloppy work was done at the factory,
>considering that this is a 1973 model ?
>- Did anybody else have similar issues, if so, any words of wisdom ?
>:)
>- Could I safely do this in the water ?
>- Any suggestions, besides using mat and epoxy to build up the area
>around the exposed bolt in  (Picture 3)
>.
>
>
>
> Many thanks in advance
>
>
>
> *Ahmet*
>
> *Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA*
>
> *1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"*
>
> *1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"

Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

You will not be able to remove the bolts without removing the keel and even
then removing the bolts from the keel is not possible without destroying
the keel.  The bolts are "J" or "L"  shaped and cast in place.  I would
remove the nut and stainless washer then clean up the threads as best
possible while in place.  You can probably get away with one bolt at a time
while in the water and then torque then properly at first haul out.  If the
hull to keel joint is sound I would not intentionally disturb it.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Nov 7, 2015 2:30 PM, "Ahmet via CnC-List"  wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I
> realized that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but
> really not a daysailor :)
>
> I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat.
>
> Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I
> am dealing with:
>
> There was *excessive rust *(Picture 1)
>  in the bilge.  After
> cleaning it up I discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer
> and a backing plate under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the
> 1.5 inch nut with and the 3 inch washer is in great shape*,whatever once
> was under the washer is almost totally rusted off*. In some areas 1/3 or
> more of the washer is up in air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. 
> (Picture
> 2)   and what is left, I am
> afraid, is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted
> metal pieces.
>
> Also there was a *very sloppy work* in the area where the bilge sump is,
> such that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the
> washer. (Picture 3) . The *washer
> is halfway in the air* and not totally aligned with the keelbolt. This
> one is the part that concerns me the most.
> Also on that picture you can see parts of the mat having cured in *odd
> shapes*, in front of the bolt.
>
> Perhaps someone at one time has done reinforcing, because *I see a
> substantial layer *(almost 1/2 in) additional layer of mat about 10
> inches wide laid up across the bilge on the keelbolt areas.  (Picture 4)
> 
>
> Interestingly, there is *no water intrusion* into the bilge, and *no C&C
> smile*. I suspect it has been this way for years.
>
> I would like to *remove the keelbolts*, one at a time, get rid of the
> rusty part, fair out the bottom of the bilge and install new washers.
>
> Unfortunately the *boat is in the water *for wet winter storage.  My
> question is, should I wait until I haul out next spring to do the bottom
> paint to do this job, or should I do it now. I have more time over the
> winter than I will have next spring.
>
> Also, I see *no trace of any 5200 *or similar under the washers. Although
> I have no leaks, I will add that.
>
>
> My questions are:,
>
>- Is it possible that this sloppy work was done at the factory,
>considering that this is a 1973 model ?
>- Did anybody else have similar issues, if so, any words of wisdom ?
>:)
>- Could I safely do this in the water ?
>- Any suggestions, besides using mat and epoxy to build up the area
>around the exposed bolt in  (Picture 3)
>.
>
>
> Many thanks in advance
>
> *Ahmet*
> *Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA*
> *1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"*
> *1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"*
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Rick Taillieu via CnC-List]

Ahmet,

 

My 25 was laid up in Nov ’74 and doesn’t look entirely like yours does.  

Mine has stainless washers under all the nuts

I’m going down to the boat tomorrow afternoon, I’ll take some pictures of my 
keel bolts and put them up on one of the hosting sites.

“Tabasco” sounds familiar, did you buy it from someone on the list?

 

Rick Taillieu

Nemesis

'75 C&C 25  #371

Shearwater Yacht Club

Halifax, NS.

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ahmet via 
CnC-List
Sent: November-07-15 15:30
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Ahmet
Subject: Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

 

Hi everybody,

Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I realized 
that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but really not a 
daysailor :)

 

I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat. 

 

Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I am 
dealing with: 

 

There was excessive rust (Picture 1) 
  in the bilge.  After cleaning it 
up I discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer and a backing 
plate under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the 1.5 inch nut with 
and the 3 inch washer is in great shape,whatever once was under the washer is 
almost totally rusted off. In some areas 1/3 or more of the washer is up in 
air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. (Picture 2) 
   and what is left, I am afraid, 
is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted metal pieces.

 

Also there was a very sloppy work in the area where the bilge sump is, such 
that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the washer. 
(Picture 3)  . The washer is 
halfway in the air and not totally aligned with the keelbolt. This one is the 
part that concerns me the most. 

Also on that picture you can see parts of the mat having cured in odd shapes, 
in front of the bolt.

 

Perhaps someone at one time has done reinforcing, because I see a substantial 
layer (almost 1/2 in) additional layer of mat about 10 inches wide laid up 
across the bilge on the keelbolt areas.  (Picture 4) 
 

 

Interestingly, there is no water intrusion into the bilge, and no C&C smile. I 
suspect it has been this way for years. 

 

I would like to remove the keelbolts, one at a time, get rid of the rusty part, 
fair out the bottom of the bilge and install new washers.

 

Unfortunately the boat is in the water for wet winter storage.  My question is, 
should I wait until I haul out next spring to do the bottom paint to do this 
job, or should I do it now. I have more time over the winter than I will have 
next spring.

 

Also, I see no trace of any 5200 or similar under the washers. Although I have 
no leaks, I will add that. 

 

 

My questions are:, 

*   Is it possible that this sloppy work was done at the factory, 
considering that this is a 1973 model ?
*   Did anybody else have similar issues, if so, any words of wisdom ? :)  
*   Could I safely do this in the water ?
*   Any suggestions, besides using mat and epoxy to build up the area 
around the exposed bolt in  (Picture 3) 
 . 

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Ahmet

Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA

1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"

1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"

 

 

 

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6173 / Virus Database: 4457/10961 - Release Date: 11/07/15

___

Email address:
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of 
page at:
http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com

Stus-List Keel attachment issues on a C&C 25

[Ahmet via CnC-List]

Hi everybody,
Last August I bought a 1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco" for fun sailing, since I
realized that may Irwin 43 "Waterdancer" is a great liveaboard for us, but
really not a daysailor :)

I love the way Tabasco sails, very easy to handle and fast boat.

Being a 43 year old boat, obviously she is an old girl, so here is what I
am dealing with:

There was *excessive rust *(Picture 1)
 in the bilge.  After cleaning
it up I discovered that there were multiple washers, or a washer and a
backing plate under the keel nuts. I said "were" because although the 1.5
inch nut with and the 3 inch washer is in great shape*,whatever once was
under the washer is almost totally rusted off*. In some areas 1/3 or more
of the washer is up in air, no contact with the bottom of the bilge. (Picture
2)   and what is left, I am
afraid, is ready to crumble away. The bilge was full of crumbled rusted
metal pieces.

Also there was a *very sloppy work* in the area where the bilge sump is,
such that you can actually see the treads of the keel bolt under the
washer. (Picture 3) . The *washer
is halfway in the air* and not totally aligned with the keelbolt. This one
is the part that concerns me the most.
Also on that picture you can see parts of the mat having cured in *odd
shapes*, in front of the bolt.

Perhaps someone at one time has done reinforcing, because *I see a
substantial layer *(almost 1/2 in) additional layer of mat about 10 inches
wide laid up across the bilge on the keelbolt areas.  (Picture 4)


Interestingly, there is *no water intrusion* into the bilge, and *no C&C
smile*. I suspect it has been this way for years.

I would like to *remove the keelbolts*, one at a time, get rid of the rusty
part, fair out the bottom of the bilge and install new washers.

Unfortunately the *boat is in the water *for wet winter storage.  My
question is, should I wait until I haul out next spring to do the bottom
paint to do this job, or should I do it now. I have more time over the
winter than I will have next spring.

Also, I see *no trace of any 5200 *or similar under the washers. Although I
have no leaks, I will add that.


My questions are:,

   - Is it possible that this sloppy work was done at the factory,
   considering that this is a 1973 model ?
   - Did anybody else have similar issues, if so, any words of wisdom ? :)
   - Could I safely do this in the water ?
   - Any suggestions, besides using mat and epoxy to build up the area
   around the exposed bolt in  (Picture 3)
   .


Many thanks in advance

*Ahmet*
*Winthrop Yacht Club / Constitution Marina, Boston, MA*
*1990 Irwin 43 CC "Waterdancer"*
*1973 C&C 25 "Tabasco"*
___

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Re: Stus-List Fwd: Replacing Windows - welcome

[JP Mail via CnC-List]

Thx. Me too. She looks well cared for. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2015, at 1:31 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Welcome to the list.  Hope the survey goes well.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:52 AM, JP Mail via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Just joined the list, minutes ago. Hopefully a new C&C owner after the 
>> survey in 10 days. Enjoyed the boat works video. Noticed the the East 
>> Greenwich RI tag after Gary's name. That is where the survey will take 
>> place. Small world. Sorry for the hijack. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That boatworks guy has some great videos. Thanks for the link!
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> Suhana, C&C 32
>>> Toronto
>>> 
 On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 Fred,
  Please note that the 3M VHB tape is available in black, eliminating 
 (I think) the need for Fusion Black paint.
 Gary
 S/V High Maintenance
 1990 C&C 37 Plus
 East Greenwich, RI, USA
 
 ~~~_/)~~
 
 
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape 
> method.  See link below:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> 1999 C&C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert  wrote:
>> Gary:
>> 
>> I sent you the process I used 'off list'.
>> 
>> The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure 
>> how much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you 
>> take the old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 
>> 295 UV with the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would 
>> hold the curved window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.
>> 
>> Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace 
>> them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' 
>> email to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>> 
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C&C 32 - 84
>> Halifax, N.S.
>> 
>>
>> 
>>> On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
>>> Fred,
>>>  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to 
>>> look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the 
>>> winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the 
>>> gray VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the 
>>> VHB tape will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so 
>>> the windows will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the 
>>> cabin.  I wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick  
>>>  acrylic trying to  return to a flat shape?
>>> 
>>> Gary
>>> 
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the 
 winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this 
 time, I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul 
 did on Johanna Rose: 
 http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
 
 I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
 
 — Fred
 
 Fred Street -- Minneapolis
 S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
 
> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 
> 5/16"  It amazes me that   people with no 
> marine design experience would change the design.  I plan to go with 
> 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
> 
> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is 
> less scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably 
> trading one problem for another.
> 
>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in 
> the Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big 
> if) the bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass 
> beads to the adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get 
> thinner than 0.030".
> 
>  Thoughts, anyone?
> 
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C&C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
 
 
 ___

Re: Stus-List Fwd: Replacing Windows - welcome

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Welcome to the list.  Hope the survey goes well.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 11:52 AM, JP Mail via CnC-List  wrote:

> Just joined the list, minutes ago. Hopefully a new C&C owner after the
> survey in 10 days. Enjoyed the boat works video. Noticed the the East
> Greenwich RI tag after Gary's name. That is where the survey will take
> place. Small world. Sorry for the hijack.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> That boatworks  guy has some
> great videos. Thanks for the link!
>
> Steve
> Suhana, C&C 32
> Toronto
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Fred,
>>  Please note that the 3M VHB tape is available in black, eliminating
>> (I think) the need for Fusion Black paint.
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> 1990 C&C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape
>>> method.  See link below:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> S/V High Maintenance
>>> 1999 C&C 37 Plus
>>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Gary:

 I sent you the process I used 'off list'.

 The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure
 how much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you take
 the old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 295 UV
 with the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would hold the
 curved window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.

 Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace
 them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' email
 to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.

 Rob Abbott
 AZURA
 C&C 32 - 84
 Halifax, N.S.



 On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:

 Fred,
  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to
 look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the
 winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the gray
 VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB tape
 will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the windows
 will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the cabin.  I
 wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick acrylic trying to
  return to a flat shape?

 Gary

 ~~~_/)~~


 On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the
> winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time,
> I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on
> Johanna Rose: http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
>
>
> I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield,
> WI   :^(
>
> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has
> 5/16"  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would
> change the design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>
> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is
> less scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading
> one problem for another.
>
>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in
> the Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) 
> the
> bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
> adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
>
>  Thoughts, anyone?
>
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> '90 C&C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>


 ___

 Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 To

Re: Stus-List Fwd: Replacing Windows

[JP Mail via CnC-List]

Just joined the list, minutes ago. Hopefully a new C&C owner after the survey 
in 10 days. Enjoyed the boat works video. Noticed the the East Greenwich RI tag 
after Gary's name. That is where the survey will take place. Small world. Sorry 
for the hijack. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 7, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> That boatworks guy has some great videos. Thanks for the link!
> 
> Steve
> Suhana, C&C 32
> Toronto
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Fred,
>>  Please note that the 3M VHB tape is available in black, eliminating (I 
>> think) the need for Fusion Black paint.
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> 1990 C&C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>> 
>> ~~~_/)~~
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape method. 
>>>  See link below:
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8
>>> 
>>> Gary
>>> S/V High Maintenance
>>> 1999 C&C 37 Plus
>>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert  wrote:
 Gary:
 
 I sent you the process I used 'off list'.
 
 The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure how 
 much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you take the 
 old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 295 UV with 
 the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would hold the curved 
 window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.
 
 Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace 
 them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' 
 email to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
 
 Rob Abbott
 AZURA
 C&C 32 - 84
 Halifax, N.S.
 

 
> On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
> Fred,
>  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to 
> look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the 
> winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the 
> gray VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB 
> tape will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the 
> windows will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the 
> cabin.  I wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick acrylic 
> trying to  return to a flat shape?
> 
> Gary
> 
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the 
>> winter.I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous 
>> boat); this time, I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, 
>> like Paul did on Johanna Rose: 
>> http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
>> 
>> I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
>> 
>> — Fred
>> 
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>> 
>>> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Paul,
>>>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16" 
>>>  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change 
>>> the design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>>> 
>>> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is 
>>> less scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably 
>>> trading one problem for another.
>>> 
>>>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the 
>>> Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the 
>>> bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to 
>>> the adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 
>>> 0.030".
>>> 
>>>  Thoughts, anyone?
>>> 
>>> Gary
>>> S/V High Maintenance
>>> '90 C&C 37 Plus
>>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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>>> 
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>>> __

Re: Stus-List Fwd: Replacing Windows

[Stevan Plavsa via CnC-List]

That boatworks  guy has some
great videos. Thanks for the link!

Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:10 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Fred,
>  Please note that the 3M VHB tape is available in black, eliminating
> (I think) the need for Fusion Black paint.
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> 1990 C&C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape
>> method.  See link below:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> 1999 C&C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert  wrote:
>>
>>> Gary:
>>>
>>> I sent you the process I used 'off list'.
>>>
>>> The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure
>>> how much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you take
>>> the old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 295 UV
>>> with the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would hold the
>>> curved window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.
>>>
>>> Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace
>>> them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' email
>>> to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>>>
>>> Rob Abbott
>>> AZURA
>>> C&C 32 - 84
>>> Halifax, N.S.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
>>>
>>> Fred,
>>>  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to
>>> look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the
>>> winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the gray
>>> VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB tape
>>> will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the windows
>>> will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the cabin.  I
>>> wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick acrylic trying to
>>>  return to a flat shape?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>> ~~~_/)~~
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the
 winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time,
 I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on
 Johanna Rose: http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.

 I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.

 — Fred

 Fred Street -- Minneapolis
 S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

 Hi Paul,
  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"
  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the
 design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...

 The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is
 less scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading
 one problem for another.

  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the
 Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the
 bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
 adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".

  Thoughts, anyone?

 Gary
 S/V High Maintenance
 '90 C&C 37 Plus
 East Greenwich, RI, USA



 ___

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 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
 bottom of page at:
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>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
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>>> bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>>
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>>>
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> __

Re: Stus-List Boom Furling complications

[Ron via CnC-List]

Does it have to be a double rig for this to work? 
Ron
C&c 30-1
Stl


Danny Haughey via CnC-List  wrote:

>Hi Merek.
>
>I couldn't agree with you more.  It's just, the more I think about it, how 
>much do I want to push them if they are afraid or worse, simply unwilling?  
>"It's not what we're used to so, we can't do it"  
>
>I'm beginning to believe the latter is the case.  Maybe they believe their 
>equipment is not up to the task...
>
>Thanks for the suggestion though.  I'm sure that's the way it could be done as 
>it is a double spreader rig.
>
>DannyOn Oct 29, 2015 11:37 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>>
>> Danny,
>>
>> You can always devise a bridle that would grab the mast by the spreaders 
>> (without putting any pressure on the back of the mast). You can get up to 
>> the spreaders using a small ladder (or get yourself lifted in a bosun’s 
>> chair or a harness). This is a reasonably standard practice if your mast has 
>> two set of spreaders (e.g. like mine).
>>
>>  
>>
>> Of course if the yard has its own way and does not want to listen to 
>> suggestions, you cannot do much. It helps if you demast on your own (how we 
>> do it in our Club) - you can fiddle to your heart’s desire.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Good luck
>>
>>  
>>
>> Marek
>>
>> 1994 C270 “Legato”
>>
>> Ottawa
>>
>>  
>>
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny 
>> Haughey via CnC-List
>> Sent: October-29-15 15:07
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: Danny Haughey
>> Subject: Stus-List Boom Furling complications
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>  
>>
>> So, it seems the yard said they cannot remove the mast because of the sail 
>> track that rides up the mast track for the furling system.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I basically have two options where they are concerned.  Find another yard 
>> for storage or, wet store the boat in a slip.
>>
>>  
>>
>> I don't think I would mind the wet storage option if she wasn't in such a 
>> need for a bottom job.
>>
>>  
>>
>> What do you guys think?
>>
>>  
>>
>> The reason they cannot remove the mast is because they use a sling and the 
>> sling would damage the track...
>>
>>  
>>
>> Maybe someone can recommend a place nearby where I can store her on the 
>> hard.  i know not every yard requires the removal of the mast.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Danny
>>
>> Westport Point, MA
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Re: Stus-List converting TOD results to TOT

[Michael Brown via CnC-List]

PHRF Lake Ontario has the ToT multipliers listed in tables:

http://www.phrf-lo.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=81&Itemid=198

PHRF-LO uses 566.431 and 401.431 for A and B, seems to be different from 
everywhere else.
That has the effect of setting the scratch boat at 165 which is fairly high, 
and "slow" boats get
more corrected time.

As an example, if in San Francisco two boats with PHRFs of 171 and 228 each 
raced for an hour
they would correct to 3245.4 sec and 3007.8 sec. A delta of 237.6 sec, about 4 
minutes.

On Lake Ontario it would be 3562.2 sec and 3239.64 sec, a delta of 322.56 sec 
or ~ 5 1/3 minutes.

There is always an interest comparing PHRF ratings between regions, but when 
the ToT correction
can be so different I suspect it adds another consideration. 

Michael Brown
Windburn
C&C 30-1


Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 22:57:01 -0800 
From: Ian Matthew  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Subject: Re: Stus-List converting TOD results to TOT 
Message-ID: 
      
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 
 
In San Francisco we use the same formula.  650 and 550 are the numbers. 
Works here! 
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Re: Stus-List Fwd: Replacing Windows

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Fred,
 Please note that the 3M VHB tape is available in black, eliminating (I
think) the need for Fusion Black paint.
Gary
S/V High Maintenance
1990 C&C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 7:37 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape
> method.  See link below:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8
>
> Gary
> S/V High Maintenance
> 1999 C&C 37 Plus
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>
>
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert  wrote:
>
>> Gary:
>>
>> I sent you the process I used 'off list'.
>>
>> The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure how
>> much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you take the
>> old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 295 UV with
>> the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would hold the curved
>> window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.
>>
>> Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace
>> them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' email
>> to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>>
>> Rob Abbott
>> AZURA
>> C&C 32 - 84
>> Halifax, N.S.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
>>
>> Fred,
>>  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to
>> look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the
>> winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the gray
>> VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB tape
>> will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the windows
>> will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the cabin.  I
>> wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick acrylic trying to
>>  return to a flat shape?
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ~~~_/)~~
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the
>>> winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time,
>>> I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on
>>> Johanna Rose: http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
>>>
>>> I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
>>>
>>> — Fred
>>>
>>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>>
>>> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Paul,
>>>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"
>>>  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the
>>> design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>>>
>>> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less
>>> scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one
>>> problem for another.
>>>
>>>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the
>>> Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the
>>> bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
>>> adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
>>>
>>>  Thoughts, anyone?
>>>
>>> Gary
>>> S/V High Maintenance
>>> '90 C&C 37 Plus
>>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Email address:
>>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>>> bottom of page at:
>>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom 
>> of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Stus-List Fwd: Replacing Windows

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape
method.  See link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
1999 C&C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA



~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert  wrote:

> Gary:
>
> I sent you the process I used 'off list'.
>
> The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure how
> much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you take the
> old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 295 UV with
> the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would hold the curved
> window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.
>
> Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace
> them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' email
> to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
>
> On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Fred,
>  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to
> look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the
> winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the gray
> VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB tape
> will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the windows
> will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the cabin.  I
> wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick acrylic trying to
>  return to a flat shape?
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the
>> winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time,
>> I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on
>> Johanna Rose: http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
>>
>> I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
>>
>> — Fred
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"
>>  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the
>> design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>>
>> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less
>> scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one
>> problem for another.
>>
>>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the
>> Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the
>> bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
>> adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
>>
>>  Thoughts, anyone?
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> '90 C&C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
>
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>
>
>

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Re: Stus-List Replacing Windows

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

There is a great BoatWorks video on Youtube describing the VHB tape
method.  See link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyjxVUskd8

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
1999 C&C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA



~~~_/)~~


On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:51 AM, robert  wrote:

> Gary:
>
> I sent you the process I used 'off list'.
>
> The 2 forward windows on my boat are also curved.not exactly sure how
> much but it is noticeable.you can get a better idea when you take the
> old windows out and lay them on a flat surface.   I used Sika 295 UV with
> the Sika primer and I also wondered if this adhesive would hold the curved
> window(s) in place.  It's been 6 seasons and no problems.
>
> Before installing the new windows, I wondered how I was going to 'brace
> them' while the Sika cured.  I explained all of that in my 'off list' email
> to you.  Any further questions, don't hesitate to ask.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - 84
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
>
> On 2015-10-21 11:07 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Fred,
>  The VHB tape with DOW Corning 795 Silicone Sealant is starting to
> look like and attractive method.  I am replacing the windows over the
> winter, also.  We should keep in touch.  Do I assume you would use the gray
> VHB tape with the gray silicone sealant?  I am wondering if the VHB tape
> will be a problem with peel.  My cabin sides are curved, so the windows
> will have to be bent slightly to conform to the side of the cabin.  I
> wonder if that will be a problem with the 3/8" thick acrylic trying to
>  return to a flat shape?
>
> Gary
>
> ~~~_/)~~
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Gary — I’m going to be replacing the fixed windows on my LF38 over the
>> winter.  I’ve done the Plexus thing twice now (previous boat); this time,
>> I’m going to try the VHB tape with Dow 795 approach, like Paul did on
>> Johanna Rose: http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/search/label/NewPorts.
>>
>> I’ll be using 3/8” bronze acrylic with a chamfer to the outside edge.
>>
>> — Fred
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>>
>> On Oct 21, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Gary Russell via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>  I agree that 1/4" is too thin.  The other 37+ at my club has 5/16"
>>  It amazes me that people with no marine design experience would change the
>> design.  I plan to go with 3/8" acrylic.  But then again...
>>
>> The problem with Lexan (which is a polycarbonate) is that it is less
>> scratch resistant than Plexiglas (acrylic).  You are probably trading one
>> problem for another.
>>
>>  As for Plexus vs Silka 295, I am really torn.  The write-up in the
>> Photo Album suggest that Plexus will be flexible enough if (big if) the
>> bond thickness is large enough.  To that end he added glass beads to the
>> adhesive to make sure the bond thickness didn't get thinner than 0.030".
>>
>>  Thoughts, anyone?
>>
>> Gary
>> S/V High Maintenance
>> '90 C&C 37 Plus
>> East Greenwich, RI, USA
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>>
>> Email address:
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
>> bottom of page at:
>> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
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