Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Now that Doug mentions it, there was a previous incarnation of Colorado Sail & 
Yacht Club called No Coast Yacht Club that included both powerboaters and 
sailors.  A rift developed because the powerboaters didn’t like their dues 
going to support sailboat racing activities, and things fell apart.  Ever since 
then, CSYC has been a sailboat racing club.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 8:03 PM, svrebeccaleah via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Charlie,
> At my club, we own buildings, and docks. Most members are powerboaters(170 
> boats). We have a committee (1 guy) that handles the racing. We set aside a 
> portion of the annual budget for the racing. Members get work party time for 
> helping out with the race committee boat. We also work closely with a paper 
> only club. 
> Hope this answers some of your questions
> 
> 
> Doug Mountjoy 
> Sv Rebecca Leah 
> LH39
> Port Orchard YC wa.
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
> Date: 12/18/18 18:47 (GMT-08:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: cenel...@aol.com
> Subject: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers
> 
> Hello all CnCers;
> 
> I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht Clubs, 
> especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs are 
> 'paper only' can also chime in.
> 
> Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a sailing 
> club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other buildings 
> located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River. Dues are 
> modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also have dry 
> storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees. 
> 
> Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals used 
> to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to be kept 
> reasonable.
> 
> Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either in a 
> OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an active 
> club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper club). Our 
> club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2 annually and often 
> helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC personnel, equipment, 
> etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many club members are also 
> members of these fleets/clubs. 
> 
> I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to 
> racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these racing 
> clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this keeps 
> things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property concerns 
> (taxes, upkeep, etc.).
> 
> Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them to 
> associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist them 
> with personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~ 10 
> boats). This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with several 
> races per day. This is new 'ground' for our club and while we are keen to 
> support local sailboat racing in all its forms, we have to be mindful of the 
> majority of our members who do not race but certainly pay dues, slip fees, 
> etc. Hence our dilemma--how do we support our racing minority in a club whose 
> majority are cruisers or day sailors?
> 
> What I would like to know from those on the list (in broad terms) is how your 
> club handles racing in your club, especially if the racers represent a 
> relative minority of your otherwise cruising members:
> 
> Does the club supply RC and mark/safety boats and personnel for your racers?
> 
> Are the racers covered by the club's liability insurance while on the water 
> racing?
> 
> Does the club charge a fee or fees for the support it provides?
> 
> Does the club impose any fees on the racers for the use of the club 
> facilities such as the clubhouse for dinners, etc.?
> 
> Does your club charge additional fees to your racing members to cover racing 
> expenses?
> 
> This issue is new to our club and some other local OD fleets and paper clubs 
> may want a similar association. Thus we would like to get any agreement 
> between us and a smaller fleet/club mostly correct the first time. Further, I 
> am sure that this is not the first time this problem has come up in sailing 
> clubs with racers as members, albeit in a minority.
> 
> Any suggestions on how your club handles these issues or others similar to 
> these would be appreciated, including copies of by-laws, etc. that spell out 
> how such issues are addressed.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> Rear Commodore (to be in 2019!)
> Blackbeard Sailing Club
> New Bern, NC
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
> 
> cenel...@aol.com
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly 

Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Charlie,

Interesting dilemma.

The one point that really jumped out at me is that the One-Design club 
proposing to associate with BSC has (only) ~10 boats for their weekday races.  
That’s a small operation.  It sounds like that OD club has more to gain from 
the BSC association than vice-versa; it sounds like BSC would be essentially 
subsidizing the OD club’s activity (racing) in one way or another.

I’m a six-year active member and past Commodore of Colorado Sail & Yacht Club 
(https://csyc.org ).  But our situation is exactly the 
opposite of yours: we are primarily a racing club comprised of multiple 
one-design and PRHF fleets, with about 80 members (half “full”, half 
“crew/dinghy") and three dozen keelboats racing in a good year, and about 45 
days worth of racing per year.  We have a social program that’s kind of hit or 
miss depending on the event, and a fledgling cruising program that is 
attracting some interest.  We own capital assets in the form of a pontoon boat 
for RC, marks, flags, etc. racing equipment, but we don’t own any real estate 
assets (we operate at a state park and use its amenities).  We do have a tiny 
minority of members who join the club but don’t race, some of whom own boats 
and even some who don't.  Some do it for access to the social events, and some 
for reciprocal privileges at other yacht clubs.  I measure the health of our 
club by how many keelboats register and show up to race in our series races and 
regattas, and by how many dinghies participate in our dinghy series.  Less so 
by how many people show up at social and cruising events; we’re primarily a 
racing club.

To your questions:

* Yes CSYC supplies RC and mark/safety boats and personnel to our racers.  We 
rotate - every full member is required to perform two such personnel duties per 
year.

* No the racers are not covered by the club’s liability insurance.  We require 
all boats entering races to provide proof of insurance.  Our policy only covers 
our RC boat, M insurance, etc.

* Yes the club charges a fee for the support it provides.  There is a base 
membership fee plus separate entry fees for every race.

* No the club doesn't impose fees on the racers for use of (rented) facilities. 
 Those costs are paid from the club’s general account funded by base membership 
fees.  We do impose fees for special dinners e.g. a low country boil we do 
every year after one of our regattas.

* Yes CSYC charges additional fees to racing members to cover racing expenses.  
The per-race fees are primarily to cover things like trophies, race official 
gifts, etc.

Our governing documents are available at 
https://csyc.org/csyc-documents/csyc-bylaws-and-policies/ 
 but they barely 
touch on the idea of an association with another club.

Best Regards,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO
CSYC Past Commodore

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 7:47 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all CnCers;
> 
> I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht Clubs, 
> especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs are 
> 'paper only' can also chime in.
> 
> Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a sailing 
> club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other buildings 
> located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River. Dues are 
> modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also have dry 
> storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees. 
> 
> Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals used 
> to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to be kept 
> reasonable.
> 
> Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either in a 
> OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an active 
> club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper club). Our 
> club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2 annually and often 
> helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC personnel, equipment, 
> etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many club members are also 
> members of these fleets/clubs. 
> 
> I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to 
> racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these racing 
> clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this keeps 
> things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property concerns 
> (taxes, upkeep, etc.).
> 
> Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them to 
> associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist them 
> with personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~ 10 
> boats). This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with several 
> races per day. This is new 

Re: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I put in a Raymarine Seatalkng network a few years ago with Fred’s help and am 
very happy with the system.  I added a Airmar DST800 depth/speed/temp tri-ducer 
last spring that I bought on eBay which plugged right into the network and 
worked perfectly.  It even fit into the hole from the old transducer with no 
modification.  For wind, I have a TacTic wireless wind sensor on the mast which 
I love because it needs no wiring, but you need a converter to get the signal 
into the Seatalkng network.  Given Raymarine seems to be making no progress at 
all on wireless, when I need to replace my masthead sensor, I will probably 
install a Sailtimer masthead unit (https://sailtimerwind.com 
).  Dave

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 5:30 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I replaced an Autohelm depth sounder display with one I purchased from 
> someone on the list. the transducer was ok. You can also check out the 
> Raymarine refurbished instruments. 
> http://www.raymarine.com/store/refurbished/ 
> . You might find something you 
> want there.
> 
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 1:11 PM Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
> I'd appreciate some advice regarding a non-functioning depth sounder.
> 
> Near the end of the season my depth sounder started reading 0 no matter the 
> condition.  I couldn't find any obvious explanation for the problem - but I'm 
> thinking that the Autohelm depth and speedo are original to the 1986 boat - 
> so likely better to suck it up and replace than to jury rig a repair or sink 
> money into a new transducer.
> 
> Should I just replace the broken depth and worry about the speedo at at 
> another time?  Anyone think it's better to do a whole package?
> I have a Raymarine wheel pilot (waiting for me to install) - so I assume the 
> smart move would be to stick with the same product line. Such as - Raymarine 
> i40 Depth System with Thru-Hull Transducer E70142.  With the Binnacle a new 
> depth sounder $340, and a new speedo ($350) combined for almost $700 - would 
> I be better to add a whole package with wind instruments?
> Raymarine i70s Instrument Value Pack Speed Depth Wind T70226 -  
> https://tinyurl.com/y9zumft6 
> 
>  - $1600 cdn at Binnacle (I wouldn't mind if I could get water temp as well 
> but don't know if that's an option with Raymarine).
> 
> Another option - someone on this list suggested SailTimer as a better option 
> for wind instruments.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>   - George Santayana
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray=DwICAg=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ=I4Gt-kmFq8ECAZ6487R_pOPcBW3Cn765kbmlV0CBRlk=s5z1e2n-3hHYwUFxkCIdJ3V4mjxkQvvOQeADX_8_-ps=
>  
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[svrebeccaleah via CnC-List]

Hi Charlie,At my club, we own buildings, and docks. Most members are 
powerboaters(170 boats). We have a committee (1 guy) that handles the racing. 
We set aside a portion of the annual budget for the racing. Members get work 
party time for helping out with the race committee boat. We also work closely 
with a paper only club. Hope this answers some of your questionsDoug Mountjoy 
Sv Rebecca Leah LH39Port Orchard YC wa.
 Original message From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
 Date: 12/18/18  18:47  (GMT-08:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: cenel...@aol.com Subject: Stus-List Sailing Club with 
racers 



Hello all CnCers;







I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht Clubs, 
especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs are 'paper 
only' can also chime in.









Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a sailing 
club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other buildings 
located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River. Dues are 
modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also have dry 
storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees. 









Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals used 
to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to be kept 
reasonable.









Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either in a 
OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an active 
club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper club). Our 
club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2 annually and often 
helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC personnel, equipment, 
etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many club members are also 
members of these fleets/clubs. 









I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to 
racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these racing 
clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this keeps 
things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property concerns 
(taxes, upkeep, etc.).









Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them to 
associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist them with 
personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~ 10 boats). 
This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with several races per 
day. This is new 'ground' for our club and while we are keen to support local 
sailboat racing in all its forms, we have to be mindful of the majority of our 
members who do not race but certainly pay dues, slip fees, etc. Hence our 
dilemma--how do we support our racing minority in a club whose majority are 
cruisers or day sailors?









What I would like to know from those on the list (in broad terms) is how your 
club handles racing in your club, especially if the racers represent a relative 
minority of your otherwise cruising members:









Does the club supply RC and mark/safety boats and personnel for your racers?









Are the racers covered by the club's liability insurance while on the water 
racing?









Does the club charge a fee or fees for the support it provides?









Does the club impose any fees on the racers for the use of the club facilities 
such as the clubhouse for dinners, etc.?









Does your club charge additional fees to your racing members to cover racing 
expenses?









This issue is new to our club and some other local OD fleets and paper clubs 
may want a similar association. Thus we would like to get any agreement between 
us and a smaller fleet/club mostly correct the first time. Further, I am sure 
that this is not the first time this problem has come up in sailing clubs with 
racers as members, albeit in a minority.









Any suggestions on how your club handles these issues or others similar to 
these would be appreciated, including copies of by-laws, etc. that spell out 
how such issues are addressed.









Thanks in advance,









Charlie Nelson



Rear Commodore (to be in 2019!)



Blackbeard Sailing Club



New Bern, NC



1995 C 36 XL/kcb



Water Phantom











cenel...@aol.com









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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Stus-List Sailing Club with racers

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

Hello all CnCers;


I have some questions for those of you who belong to Sailing or Yacht Clubs, 
especially those with buildings and grounds, etc. Those whose clubs are 'paper 
only' can also chime in.


Blackbeard Sailing Club (BSC) has ~ 200 members and is exclusively a sailing 
club founded in ~ 1972. We own real estate, a clubhouse, and other buildings 
located near New Bern, NC on a creek that joins the Neuse River. Dues are 
modest (~$550/year) as are in-water slips (~$1000/year). We also have dry 
storage, dinghy storage and dock boxes available for modest fees. 


Most of the upkeep is done by member labor with occasional professionals used 
to replace entire dock sections, etc. which allows the above costs to be kept 
reasonable.


Most members are cruisers with maybe 30 members who actively race either in a 
OD San Juan 21 fleet, an Ensign fleet or in local PHRF races run by an active 
club (Neuse River Yacht Association) without facilities (a paper club). Our 
club (BSC) sponsors an OD regatta and a PHRF regatta or 2 annually and often 
helps out with local OD fleets and PHRF races with RC personnel, equipment, 
etc. All these fleets are relatively local and many club members are also 
members of these fleets/clubs. 


I am a member of several paper clubs which are exclusively devoted to 
racing--have even served as the Commodore of several of them. In these racing 
clubs, all the revenue and expenses are devoted to racing only--this keeps 
things simple and relatively low cost, especially without property concerns 
(taxes, upkeep, etc.).


Recently, BSC has been approached by an OD club with a proposal for them to 
associate with us (most of the OD are members of our club) to assist them with 
personnel, equipment, insurance, etc. for their weekday races (~ 10 boats). 
This fleet has about 16 race days (Thursdays) per year with several races per 
day. This is new 'ground' for our club and while we are keen to support local 
sailboat racing in all its forms, we have to be mindful of the majority of our 
members who do not race but certainly pay dues, slip fees, etc. Hence our 
dilemma--how do we support our racing minority in a club whose majority are 
cruisers or day sailors?


What I would like to know from those on the list (in broad terms) is how your 
club handles racing in your club, especially if the racers represent a relative 
minority of your otherwise cruising members:


Does the club supply RC and mark/safety boats and personnel for your racers?


Are the racers covered by the club's liability insurance while on the water 
racing?


Does the club charge a fee or fees for the support it provides?


Does the club impose any fees on the racers for the use of the club facilities 
such as the clubhouse for dinners, etc.?


Does your club charge additional fees to your racing members to cover racing 
expenses?


This issue is new to our club and some other local OD fleets and paper clubs 
may want a similar association. Thus we would like to get any agreement between 
us and a smaller fleet/club mostly correct the first time. Further, I am sure 
that this is not the first time this problem has come up in sailing clubs with 
racers as members, albeit in a minority.


Any suggestions on how your club handles these issues or others similar to 
these would be appreciated, including copies of by-laws, etc. that spell out 
how such issues are addressed.


Thanks in advance,


Charlie Nelson
Rear Commodore (to be in 2019!)
Blackbeard Sailing Club
New Bern, NC
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom



cenel...@aol.com


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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters

[Bill Dakin via CnC-List]

Poor satellite coverage will drop accuracy too. It’s a factor in land surveying 
in planning hours of data collection.

Bill Dakin

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 12:41 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> The positions were accurate during the rest of the 178 
> 

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

I replaced an Autohelm depth sounder display with one I purchased from
someone on the list. the transducer was ok. You can also check out the
Raymarine refurbished instruments.
http://www.raymarine.com/store/refurbished/. You might find something you
want there.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 1:11 PM Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> I'd appreciate some advice regarding a non-functioning depth sounder.
>
> Near the end of the season my depth sounder started reading 0 no matter
> the condition.  I couldn't find any obvious explanation for the problem -
> but I'm thinking that the Autohelm depth and speedo are original to the
> 1986 boat - so likely better to suck it up and replace than to jury rig a
> repair or sink money into a new transducer.
>
> Should I just replace the broken depth and worry about the speedo at at
> another time?  Anyone think it's better to do a whole package?
>
> I have a Raymarine wheel pilot (waiting for me to install) - so I assume
> the smart move would be to stick with the same product line. Such as -
> Raymarine i40 Depth System with Thru-Hull Transducer E70142.  With the
> Binnacle a new depth sounder $340, and a new speedo ($350) combined for
> almost $700 - would I be better to add a whole package with wind
> instruments?
>
> Raymarine i70s Instrument Value Pack Speed Depth Wind T70226 -  
> *https://tinyurl.com/y9zumft6
> 
> *- $1600 cdn at Binnacle (I wouldn't mind if I could get water temp as
> well but don't know if that's an option with Raymarine).
>
> Another option - someone on this list suggested SailTimer as a better
> option for wind instruments.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>   - George Santayana
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray=DwICAg=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ=I4Gt-kmFq8ECAZ6487R_pOPcBW3Cn765kbmlV0CBRlk=s5z1e2n-3hHYwUFxkCIdJ3V4mjxkQvvOQeADX_8_-ps=
>
>
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[John and Maryann Read via CnC-List]

HI Mark

 

Have been down this road with my ancient Standard Horizon system (wind, speed, 
depth).  Great system but has been out of production for 15+ years so parts are 
nonexistent.  A few years back had the same depth issue and solved with a new 
transducer and it works just fine.  Last season the wind direction died and 
replacement circuit board is not available so I decided to change.  I opted for 
the Raymarine  i50 / i60 system as best fit for my needs, functionality, 
pricing, availability and support.  Fred Street was a big help on this.

 

Essentially all transducers are made by Airmar.  Check 
http://www.airmartechnology.com/xref.html to see if there is one for your unit. 
 Order through Fred Street or check flea bay or if you’re lucky a lister might 
have one hanging around.  Fred may be able to help.  

 

If you are thinking of replacing the system and upgrading to an integrated one 
be sure you have NMEA compatibility especially to your wheel pilot and GPS.

 

Best of luck  

 

John and Maryann

Legacy III

1982 C 34

Noank, CT

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Mark 
Bodnar via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 4:11 PM
To: C List
Cc: Dr. Mark Bodnar
Subject: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

 

 

I'd appreciate some advice regarding a non-functioning depth sounder.

Near the end of the season my depth sounder started reading 0 no matter the 
condition.  I couldn't find any obvious explanation for the problem - but I'm 
thinking that the Autohelm depth and speedo are original to the 1986 boat - so 
likely better to suck it up and replace than to jury rig a repair or sink money 
into a new transducer.

Should I just replace the broken depth and worry about the speedo at at another 
time?  Anyone think it's better to do a whole package?

I have a Raymarine wheel pilot (waiting for me to install) - so I assume the 
smart move would be to stick with the same product line. Such as - Raymarine 
i40 Depth System with Thru-Hull Transducer E70142.  With the Binnacle a new 
depth sounder $340, and a new speedo ($350) combined for almost $700 - would I 
be better to add a whole package with wind instruments?

Raymarine i70s Instrument Value Pack Speed Depth Wind T70226 -  
https://tinyurl.com/y9zumft6 - $1600 cdn at Binnacle (I wouldn't mind if I 
could get water temp as well but don't know if that's an option with Raymarine).

Another option - someone on this list suggested SailTimer as a better option 
for wind instruments.

Thanks in advance

Mark

 

 

-- 
 
 
 
 
There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
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Re: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Do the raymarine i70 package and do it right. You will love the display if
you can mount everything in a pod on the coach house over your companion
way entrance easily in view of all in the cockpit. You and crew will learn
to sail to apparent wind angle and with an added display you may be able to
show VMG wind. I use that sometimes with my older st 60 raymarine gear.
Controls for the wheel pilot work good in a pod on the binnacle guard with
remote control elsewhere if you want to spend a few extra $’s you wont
regret that in harsh conditions

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 5:34 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Mark — I would NOT consider the i40 system for wind; your only choice for
> a wind transducer is one suitable only for power boats.
>
> The i70 is a nice system; and yes, you do get water temp with it, as the
> transducer is a single depth/speed/temp transducer.  And you get a much
> better wind transducer.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Dec 18, 2018, at 3:10 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I'd appreciate some advice regarding a non-functioning depth sounder.
>
> Near the end of the season my depth sounder started reading 0 no matter
> the condition.  I couldn't find any obvious explanation for the problem -
> but I'm thinking that the Autohelm depth and speedo are original to the
> 1986 boat - so likely better to suck it up and replace than to jury rig a
> repair or sink money into a new transducer.
>
> Should I just replace the broken depth and worry about the speedo at at
> another time?  Anyone think it's better to do a whole package?
>
> I have a Raymarine wheel pilot (waiting for me to install) - so I assume
> the smart move would be to stick with the same product line. Such as -
> Raymarine i40 Depth System with Thru-Hull Transducer E70142.  With the
> Binnacle a new depth sounder $340, and a new speedo ($350) combined for
> almost $700 - would I be better to add a whole package with wind
> instruments?
>
> Raymarine i70s Instrument Value Pack Speed Depth Wind T70226 -  
> *https://tinyurl.com/y9zumft6
>  *- $1600 cdn at Binnacle (I wouldn't mind
> if I could get water temp as well but don't know if that's an option with
> Raymarine).
>
> Another option - someone on this list suggested SailTimer as a better
> option for wind instruments.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Mark
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Mark — I would NOT consider the i40 system for wind; your only choice for a 
wind transducer is one suitable only for power boats.

The i70 is a nice system; and yes, you do get water temp with it, as the 
transducer is a single depth/speed/temp transducer.  And you get a much better 
wind transducer.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 3:10 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'd appreciate some advice regarding a non-functioning depth sounder.
> 
> Near the end of the season my depth sounder started reading 0 no matter the 
> condition.  I couldn't find any obvious explanation for the problem - but I'm 
> thinking that the Autohelm depth and speedo are original to the 1986 boat - 
> so likely better to suck it up and replace than to jury rig a repair or sink 
> money into a new transducer.
> 
> Should I just replace the broken depth and worry about the speedo at at 
> another time?  Anyone think it's better to do a whole package?
> 
> I have a Raymarine wheel pilot (waiting for me to install) - so I assume the 
> smart move would be to stick with the same product line. Such as - Raymarine 
> i40 Depth System with Thru-Hull Transducer E70142.  With the Binnacle a new 
> depth sounder $340, and a new speedo ($350) combined for almost $700 - would 
> I be better to add a whole package with wind instruments?
> 
> Raymarine i70s Instrument Value Pack Speed Depth Wind T70226 -  
> https://tinyurl.com/y9zumft6  - $1600 cdn at 
> Binnacle (I wouldn't mind if I could get water temp as well but don't know if 
> that's an option with Raymarine).
> 
> Another option - someone on this list suggested SailTimer as a better option 
> for wind instruments.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Mark
> 

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Re: Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[Rod Stright via CnC-List]

Will likely be on sale when the Boat Show starts in Toronto Jan 18

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 5:10 PM, Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'd appreciate some advice regarding a non-functioning depth sounder.
> 
> Near the end of the season my depth sounder started reading 0 no matter the 
> condition.  I couldn't find any obvious explanation for the problem - but I'm 
> thinking that the Autohelm depth and speedo are original to the 1986 boat - 
> so likely better to suck it up and replace than to jury rig a repair or sink 
> money into a new transducer.
> 
> Should I just replace the broken depth and worry about the speedo at at 
> another time?  Anyone think it's better to do a whole package?
> 
> I have a Raymarine wheel pilot (waiting for me to install) - so I assume the 
> smart move would be to stick with the same product line. Such as - Raymarine 
> i40 Depth System with Thru-Hull Transducer E70142.  With the Binnacle a new 
> depth sounder $340, and a new speedo ($350) combined for almost $700 - would 
> I be better to add a whole package with wind instruments?
> 
> Raymarine i70s Instrument Value Pack Speed Depth Wind T70226 -  
> https://tinyurl.com/y9zumft6 - $1600 cdn at Binnacle (I wouldn't mind if I 
> could get water temp as well but don't know if that's an option with 
> Raymarine).
> 
> Another option - someone on this list suggested SailTimer as a better option 
> for wind instruments.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
>   - George Santayana
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Stus-List Depth sounder replacement

[Dr. Mark Bodnar via CnC-List]

  
  


I'd appreciate some advice regarding a non-functioning depth
  sounder.
Near the end of the season my depth sounder started reading 0 no
  matter the condition.  I couldn't find any obvious explanation for
  the problem - but I'm thinking that the Autohelm depth and speedo
  are original to the 1986 boat - so likely better to suck it up and
  replace than to jury rig a repair or sink money into a new
  transducer.
Should I just replace the broken depth and worry about the speedo
  at at another time?  Anyone think it's better to do a whole
  package?

I have a Raymarine wheel pilot (waiting for me to install) - so I
  assume the smart move would be to stick with the same product
  line. Such as - Raymarine i40 Depth System with Thru-Hull
  Transducer E70142.  With the Binnacle a new depth sounder $340,
  and a new speedo ($350) combined for almost $700 - would I be
  better to add a whole package with wind instruments?

Raymarine i70s Instrument Value Pack Speed Depth Wind T70226 -  https://tinyurl.com/y9zumft6
  - $1600 cdn at Binnacle (I wouldn't mind if I could get water
  temp as well but don't know if that's an option with Raymarine).
Another option - someone on this list suggested SailTimer as a
  better option for wind instruments.
Thanks in advance
Mark





-- 




There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana
  


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Re: Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Dennis. Good guess but where else. Lot water on the surface of the earth

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 3:46 PM Bruce Pope via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Thanks Dennis.
> Couldn't agree more.  I love this quote from NOAA Office of Coast Survey:
> "The age and accuracy of data on nautical charts can vary. Depth
> information on nautical charts, paper or digital, is based on data from the
> latest available hydrographic survey, which in many cases may be quite old.
> In too many cases, the data is more than 150 years old. Sometimes,
> particularly in Alaska, the depth measurements are so old that they may
> have originated from Captain Cook in 1778."
> My favorite - sailing directions for the south-west coast of Barbuda
> indicate the deepest water is relatively tight to shore.  We were
> paralleling the beach about 150m off and for about 20 minutes the chart
> plotter showed our position as driving down a road that runs just inland of
> the beach.
>
> --
> *From:* Dennis C. 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 18, 2018 9:21 AM
> *To:* CnClist
>
> *Subject:* Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters
>
> Over the weekend I brought Touche' back home to Mandeville for the
> winter.  Nice trip but a bit cold for my Southern blood.  Here's something
> I observed.
>
> For those who rely exclusively on charplotters and electronic navigation,
> here's something you need to look at.  Go to Google Earth and enter the
> following in the search window:   30°18'2.24"N 87°37'34.10"W
>
> That will take you to a marshy island in Portage Creek, a portion of the
> ICW near Orange Beach, AL.  That's where the GPS chartplotter showed the
> boat symbol representing Touche' was when Touche' was actually in the
> middle of the channel adjacent to island.  If I had been using the boat
> symbol for navigation and had been steering to keep the symbol mid-channel,
> Touche' would have been in the trees on the south bank of the ICW.
>
> The GPS continued to show Touche' in the trees on the north bank during
> the entire transit of this section of the ICW.  Having navigated these
> waters dozens of times, I'm very familiar with them but a boater transiting
> here the first time in heavy fog
>
> Once out of the man-made ICW the GPS returned to being fairly accurate.
>
> Just saying, once again, how important it is to use your eyeballs and not
> rely on electronics exclusively for navigation.  Maybe it doesn't seem like
> a big deal when you're in a channel that is well marked but there are lots
> of areas with no marks, no land and seriously shallow shoals or rocks.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: Stus-List Winter cover for 37/40

[PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List]

Where are you located is a Fairclough 

Thanks

Peter 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 18, 2018, at 2:48 PM, Brian Fry via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I have a cover, complete frame and clamps. Cover is usable, a few minor 
> tears. If you can pick it up you can have it for a donation to Stu.
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 

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Stus-List Winter cover for 37/40

[Brian Fry via CnC-List]

I have a cover, complete frame and clamps. Cover is usable, a few minor
tears. If you can pick it up you can have it for a donation to Stu.
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Re: Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters

[Bruce Pope via CnC-List]

Thanks Dennis.
Couldn't agree more.  I love this quote from NOAA Office of Coast Survey:
"The age and accuracy of data on nautical charts can vary. Depth information on 
nautical charts, paper or digital, is based on data from the latest available 
hydrographic survey, which in many cases may be quite old. In too many cases, 
the data is more than 150 years old. Sometimes, particularly in Alaska, the 
depth measurements are so old that they may have originated from Captain Cook 
in 1778."
My favorite - sailing directions for the south-west coast of Barbuda indicate 
the deepest water is relatively tight to shore.  We were paralleling the beach 
about 150m off and for about 20 minutes the chart plotter showed our position 
as driving down a road that runs just inland of the beach.


From: Dennis C. 
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 9:21 AM
To: CnClist
Subject: Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters

Over the weekend I brought Touche' back home to Mandeville for the winter.  
Nice trip but a bit cold for my Southern blood.  Here's something I observed.

For those who rely exclusively on charplotters and electronic navigation, 
here's something you need to look at.  Go to Google Earth and enter the 
following in the search window:   30°18'2.24"N 87°37'34.10"W

That will take you to a marshy island in Portage Creek, a portion of the ICW 
near Orange Beach, AL.  That's where the GPS chartplotter showed the boat 
symbol representing Touche' was when Touche' was actually in the middle of the 
channel adjacent to island.  If I had been using the boat symbol for navigation 
and had been steering to keep the symbol mid-channel, Touche' would have been 
in the trees on the south bank of the ICW.

The GPS continued to show Touche' in the trees on the north bank during the 
entire transit of this section of the ICW.  Having navigated these waters 
dozens of times, I'm very familiar with them but a boater transiting here the 
first time in heavy fog

Once out of the man-made ICW the GPS returned to being fairly accurate.

Just saying, once again, how important it is to use your eyeballs and not rely 
on electronics exclusively for navigation.  Maybe it doesn't seem like a big 
deal when you're in a channel that is well marked but there are lots of areas 
with no marks, no land and seriously shallow shoals or rocks.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


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Re: Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

The positions were accurate during the rest of the 178 nm trip except in
that short section of the ICW.  My guess is the cartography was inaccurate
there.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 12:34 PM Jerome Tauber via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>   Is your GPS *set* to output positions using the corrrect *Geodetic*
> Datum?  Jerry
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> To: CnClist 
> Cc: Dennis C. 
> Sent: Tue, Dec 18, 2018 11:22 am
> Subject: Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters
>
> Over the weekend I brought Touche' back home to Mandeville for the
> winter.  Nice trip but a bit cold for my Southern blood.  Here's something
> I observed.
>
> For those who rely exclusively on charplotters and electronic navigation,
> here's something you need to look at.  Go to Google Earth and enter the
> following in the search window:   30°18'2.24"N 87°37'34.10"W
>
> That will take you to a marshy island in Portage Creek, a portion of the
> ICW near Orange Beach, AL.  That's where the GPS chartplotter showed the
> boat symbol representing Touche' was when Touche' was actually in the
> middle of the channel adjacent to island.  If I had been using the boat
> symbol for navigation and had been steering to keep the symbol mid-channel,
> Touche' would have been in the trees on the south bank of the ICW.
>
> The GPS continued to show Touche' in the trees on the north bank during
> the entire transit of this section of the ICW.  Having navigated these
> waters dozens of times, I'm very familiar with them but a boater transiting
> here the first time in heavy fog
>
> Once out of the man-made ICW the GPS returned to being fairly accurate.
>
> Just saying, once again, how important it is to use your eyeballs and not
> rely on electronics exclusively for navigation.  Maybe it doesn't seem like
> a big deal when you're in a channel that is well marked but there are lots
> of areas with no marks, no land and seriously shallow shoals or rocks.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters

[Jerome Tauber via CnC-List]

  Is your GPS set to output positions using the corrrect Geodetic Datum?  Jerry
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Sent: Tue, Dec 18, 2018 11:22 am
Subject: Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters

Over the weekend I brought Touche' back home to Mandeville for the winter.  
Nice trip but a bit cold for my Southern blood.  Here's something I observed.
For those who rely exclusively on charplotters and electronic navigation, 
here's something you need to look at.  Go to Google Earth and enter the 
following in the search window:   30°18'2.24"N 87°37'34.10"W
That will take you to a marshy island in Portage Creek, a portion of the ICW 
near Orange Beach, AL.  That's where the GPS chartplotter showed the boat 
symbol representing Touche' was when Touche' was actually in the middle of the 
channel adjacent to island.  If I had been using the boat symbol for navigation 
and had been steering to keep the symbol mid-channel, Touche' would have been 
in the trees on the south bank of the ICW.
The GPS continued to show Touche' in the trees on the north bank during the 
entire transit of this section of the ICW.  Having navigated these waters 
dozens of times, I'm very familiar with them but a boater transiting here the 
first time in heavy fog
Once out of the man-made ICW the GPS returned to being fairly accurate.
Just saying, once again, how important it is to use your eyeballs and not rely 
on electronics exclusively for navigation.  Maybe it doesn't seem like a big 
deal when you're in a channel that is well marked but there are lots of areas 
with no marks, no land and seriously shallow shoals or rocks.
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA

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Re: Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

I think that’s why electronics are called navigational aids

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 12:22 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Over the weekend I brought Touche' back home to Mandeville for the
> winter.  Nice trip but a bit cold for my Southern blood.  Here's something
> I observed.
>
> For those who rely exclusively on charplotters and electronic navigation,
> here's something you need to look at.  Go to Google Earth and enter the
> following in the search window:   30°18'2.24"N 87°37'34.10"W
>
> That will take you to a marshy island in Portage Creek, a portion of the
> ICW near Orange Beach, AL.  That's where the GPS chartplotter showed the
> boat symbol representing Touche' was when Touche' was actually in the
> middle of the channel adjacent to island.  If I had been using the boat
> symbol for navigation and had been steering to keep the symbol mid-channel,
> Touche' would have been in the trees on the south bank of the ICW.
>
> The GPS continued to show Touche' in the trees on the north bank during
> the entire transit of this section of the ICW.  Having navigated these
> waters dozens of times, I'm very familiar with them but a boater transiting
> here the first time in heavy fog
>
> Once out of the man-made ICW the GPS returned to being fairly accurate.
>
> Just saying, once again, how important it is to use your eyeballs and not
> rely on electronics exclusively for navigation.  Maybe it doesn't seem like
> a big deal when you're in a channel that is well marked but there are lots
> of areas with no marks, no land and seriously shallow shoals or rocks.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Stus-List Electronic navigation - chartplotters

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Over the weekend I brought Touche' back home to Mandeville for the winter.
Nice trip but a bit cold for my Southern blood.  Here's something I
observed.

For those who rely exclusively on charplotters and electronic navigation,
here's something you need to look at.  Go to Google Earth and enter the
following in the search window:   30°18'2.24"N 87°37'34.10"W

That will take you to a marshy island in Portage Creek, a portion of the
ICW near Orange Beach, AL.  That's where the GPS chartplotter showed the
boat symbol representing Touche' was when Touche' was actually in the
middle of the channel adjacent to island.  If I had been using the boat
symbol for navigation and had been steering to keep the symbol mid-channel,
Touche' would have been in the trees on the south bank of the ICW.

The GPS continued to show Touche' in the trees on the north bank during the
entire transit of this section of the ICW.  Having navigated these waters
dozens of times, I'm very familiar with them but a boater transiting here
the first time in heavy fog

Once out of the man-made ICW the GPS returned to being fairly accurate.

Just saying, once again, how important it is to use your eyeballs and not
rely on electronics exclusively for navigation.  Maybe it doesn't seem like
a big deal when you're in a channel that is well marked but there are lots
of areas with no marks, no land and seriously shallow shoals or rocks.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Hull products

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

I don’t think so. Besides if you use an HCL product you need to have a
garden hose available with good water supply. The acid will do the trick
usually in under 10 minutes and then you should hose the hull down. Start
at the bow apply the acid solution to stern one side at a time and the wash
down well with hose again starting at the bow. Stain should be gone or
considerably diminished. Do again if needed. The stain is in the pores of
the gelcoat so you will need such a solution to get in there and dissolve
the minute stain particles away. Polishing alone will not be effective

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 2:25 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Is hdrochloric acid bad for the gel coat?
> Wade
> Oh Boy C 33 MKII
> Lake of the Woods
>
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 12:10 dwight veinot via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
>
>> In salt water it comes from iron and manganese ions ever present same as
>> you see at the watervlines in some toiler bowls that is  why hydrchloric
>> acid containing toilet
>> bowl cleaners work like magic
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 9:28 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> I have been told this is from Tanins in the water.  We had a white
>>> gelcoat (not painted) boat in an area where a larger river and swamp
>>> emptied into a bay.  Especially at the bow this brownish/greenish stain was
>>> very noticeable.  The product On and Off (oxylic acid I believe) tool the
>>> stain off very easily.  Unfortunately it comes back very quickly.  I was
>>> informed this was due to the porous nature of the gelcoat.  The prevention
>>> for this was waxing the hull esp at the waterline with a high quality wax.
>>> Once we started being diligent with the waxing the problem went away.
>>>
>>> ... and when I say came back quickly I mean very quickly.  We were
>>> visiting Charlottetown, PEI for a regatta and took advantage of their crane
>>> to haul to clean bottom.  While out I scrubbed the hull above waterline
>>> with On and Off and removed the tannin staining.  Charlottetown Harbour is
>>> where three good sized rivers meet.  The stain was back in a bit over 24
>>> hours.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> Persistence
>>> Halifax, NS
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Brien Sadler via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2018 1:59 PM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Cc: Brien Sadler
>>> Subject: Stus-List Hull products
>>>
>>> I’m looking for suggestions on a product to remove the the brown stain
>>> from my water line. Also, any recommendations on hull wax as well.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brien Sadler
>>> TAZ
>>> 1987 C 35-3
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray