Re: Stus-List Panel switches/circuit breakers

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Just to perhaps complete this discussion: 

I investigated further today and I am pretty sure they are breakers (not 
switches).  There is nothing wired behind the panels and the panels look like  
Blue Seas that are 8 position 15A breakers:
https://www.bluesea.com/products/8023/Traditional_Metal_DC_Panel_-_8_Positions 


and one is Paneltronics and also beakers:
https://www.paneltronics.com/Power_Distribution_Panels.asp?op=Standard-Electrical-Panel
 


 The standard Paneltronics is 2, 5A, 1 10A, 1 15A and 1 20A.  I have still not 
found labels so if they are there, it is not obvious.  Dave
> 

David Knecht
S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



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Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I am replacing some 0183 wiring for NMEA 2000, and I bought some 2000 end 
connectors (Maretron FA-NF-ST Mini Field Attachable Connector (Female)
FA-NM-ST) that you can screw the terminals into. Some of this 0183 wiring was 
probably installed before the boat was completed, and It looks very difficult 
to re-wire. Does anyone know if I can just use the 0183 wiring to now become 
2000  compatible?  In other words, is there anything lacking in the older 
wiring, like shielding, twisting, etc, that would make this not work?

Bill Coleman
Erie PA
 


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Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility

[ed vanderkruk via CnC-List]

Generally need 5 wires of adequate gauge to handle powering the downstream
devices - if required. You can buy connectors to attach yourself to the
cable ends. You might have some electrical interference issues but the bus
can handle some transmission errors.

Ed

On Sun., Apr. 26, 2020, 5:57 p.m. Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I am replacing some 0183 wiring for NMEA 2000, and I bought some 2000 end
> connectors (Maretron FA-NF-ST Mini Field Attachable Connector (Female)
> FA-NM-ST) that you can screw the terminals into. Some of this 0183 wiring
> was probably installed before the boat was completed, and It looks very
> difficult to re-wire. Does anyone know if I can just use the 0183 wiring to
> now become 2000  compatible?  In other words, is there anything lacking in
> the older wiring, like shielding, twisting, etc, that would make this not
> work?
>
> Bill Coleman
> Erie PA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Yes there is a spec for N2K wiring and it differs from 0184, however for
relatively short runs (or for that matter even the longer ones) you'll
probably be OK.  The biggest thing you'll want to verify is that the gauge
of the conductors is matched for the power wires.  In N2K you'll find a red
and black wire that are typically larger than the signal wires.  Those red
and black wires supply power to all of the downstream devices.  One device
is probably not a big concern... Multiple devices - might make a
difference.  So if it is a branch you'll likely not have a problem, if it
is a section of the backbone it might cause trouble.

Other than that, it is certainly worth a try.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 17:57 Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
wrote:

> I am replacing some 0183 wiring for NMEA 2000, and I bought some 2000 end
> connectors (Maretron FA-NF-ST Mini Field Attachable Connector (Female)
> FA-NM-ST) that you can screw the terminals into. Some of this 0183 wiring
> was probably installed before the boat was completed, and It looks very
> difficult to re-wire. Does anyone know if I can just use the 0183 wiring to
> now become 2000  compatible?  In other words, is there anything lacking in
> the older wiring, like shielding, twisting, etc, that would make this not
> work?
>
> Bill Coleman
> Erie PA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Since the NMEA2K conductors usually run from the top of the mast to the
back of the boat and supply power to all the devices in between, the
voltage drop is a significant problem even if you use the recommended
cables.  Using the NMEA 0183 cable which doesn't usually supply power to
all the devices along the way will probably not be acceptable, especially
since they're probably won't be enough conductors anyway.  I recommend you
go with the recommended cables and also make very sure that the wires
supplying the network backbone are sufficient to prevent significant
voltage drop.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C&C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~



On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 5:57 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I am replacing some 0183 wiring for NMEA 2000, and I bought some 2000 end
> connectors (Maretron FA-NF-ST Mini Field Attachable Connector (Female)
> FA-NM-ST) that you can screw the terminals into. Some of this 0183 wiring
> was probably installed before the boat was completed, and It looks very
> difficult to re-wire. Does anyone know if I can just use the 0183 wiring to
> now become 2000  compatible?  In other words, is there anything lacking in
> the older wiring, like shielding, twisting, etc, that would make this not
> work?
>
> Bill Coleman
> Erie PA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Stus-List Need to replace forward hatch on 35 mkIII

[Matthew Schlanger via CnC-List]

Hello CnC list,

I was wondering if anyone knew exactly what kind and where I can find a 
replacement for my forward hatch on a 1983 C&C 35 mkIII.

I am hoping I can just get a new hatch and use the existing frame, though I 
assume it comes with a new frame as well just in case.

I measured the outer dimensions of the flanges on the frame at 20 7/8” square, 
the outer dimensions of the hatch at ~21 13/16 square, and the inner distance 
between the hinges on the hatch at 14 1/16”.

I thought this would use a Lewmar replacement but the dimensions don’t seem to 
match.

Thanks in advance.
This list is great, I wish I had more time to read it.

Matthew Schlanger
The Office
1983 C&C 35 mkIII
Nyack NY
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Re: Stus-List Need to replace forward hatch on 35 mkIII

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

It is Atkins & Hoyle.

Joel

On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 9:12 PM Matthew Schlanger via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello CnC list,
>
> I was wondering if anyone knew exactly what kind and where I can find a
> replacement for my forward hatch on a 1983 C&C 35 mkIII.
>
> I am hoping I can just get a new hatch and use the existing frame, though
> I assume it comes with a new frame as well just in case.
>
> I measured the outer dimensions of the flanges on the frame at 20 7/8”
> square, the outer dimensions of the hatch at ~21 13/16 square, and the
> inner distance between the hinges on the hatch at 14 1/16”.
>
> I thought this would use a Lewmar replacement but the dimensions don’t
> seem to match.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> This list is great, I wish I had more time to read it.
>
> Matthew Schlanger
> The Office
> 1983 C&C 35 mkIII
> Nyack NY
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> --
Joel
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Re: Stus-List Need to replace forward hatch on 35 mkIII

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Try Hatchmasters in CT

https://hatchmasters.com/

If your hatch it broken, they can fix it easily at a fraction of the cost of 
replacement. 

All the best, 

Edd

———-
Edd M. Schillay
Captain of the “Starship Enterprise”
C&C 37+ | Sail No.: NCC-1701-B
Venice Yacht Club | Venice Island, FL
www.StarshipSailing.com
———-
914.774.9767   | Mobile
———-
Sent via iPhone 11 Pro
iPhone. iTypos. iApologize


> On Apr 26, 2020, at 9:12 PM, Matthew Schlanger via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 

Hello CnC list,

I was wondering if anyone knew exactly what kind and where I can find a 
replacement for my forward hatch on a 1983 C&C 35 mkIII.

I am hoping I can just get a new hatch and use the existing frame, though I 
assume it comes with a new frame as well just in case.

I measured the outer dimensions of the flanges on the frame at 20 7/8” square, 
the outer dimensions of the hatch at ~21 13/16 square, and the inner distance 
between the hinges on the hatch at 14 1/16”.

I thought this would use a Lewmar replacement but the dimensions don’t seem to 
match.

Thanks in advance.
This list is great, I wish I had more time to read it.

Matthew Schlanger
The Office
1983 C&C 35 mkIII
Nyack NY
___

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Re: Stus-List Need to replace forward hatch on 35 mkIII

[Graham Collins via CnC-List]

Hi Matthew

Atkins & Hoyle make the direct replacement, but there is an alternative 
- I put on a low profile stainless hatch from these guys. 
http://www.manshipmarine.com/low-profile-deck-hatch.html



I'll look to see if I have any pics.

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11

On 2020-04-26 10:12 p.m., Matthew Schlanger via CnC-List wrote:

Hello CnC list,

I was wondering if anyone knew exactly what kind and where I can find a replacement 
for my forward hatch on a 1983 C&C 35 mkIII.

I am hoping I can just get a new hatch and use the existing frame, though I 
assume it comes with a new frame as well just in case.

I measured the outer dimensions of the flanges on the frame at 20 7/8” square, 
the outer dimensions of the hatch at ~21 13/16 square, and the inner distance 
between the hinges on the hatch at 14 1/16”.

I thought this would use a Lewmar replacement but the dimensions don’t seem to 
match.

Thanks in advance.
This list is great, I wish I had more time to read it.

Matthew Schlanger
The Office
1983 C&C 35 mkIII
Nyack NY
___

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Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

That is an interesting point, I forgot about the power carrying capabilities of 
two of the wires. Got me curious so I pulled out a N2K connector to one of my 
components, the CPU. And it's not exactly what I thought I would find. The 
actual wires appear to be about the same gauge, not really sure but pretty 
small. But the black and red power carrying cables have very little insulation, 
and the wire appears to be twisted quite a bit, but the data carrying cables, 
the blue and white, have heavier insulation, but the wire strands appear to be 
laid straight. Kind of the opposite of what I would have thought of.  But there 
are only 4 wires, plus the braid around it all, which is not used on that 
connection.  . I guess the braid covering the whole thing is pulled out and 
becomes the fifth wire, the drain as they call it.  I will take some calipers 
down to the boat and compare the wire gauge of the 0183 wires to this N2K, 
maybe it will work.

 

Bill Coleman

Erie, PA

 

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2020 6:26 PM
To: C&C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility

 

Yes there is a spec for N2K wiring and it differs from 0184, however for 
relatively short runs (or for that matter even the longer ones) you'll probably 
be OK.  The biggest thing you'll want to verify is that the gauge of the 
conductors is matched for the power wires.  In N2K you'll find a red and black 
wire that are typically larger than the signal wires.  Those red and black 
wires supply power to all of the downstream devices.  One device is probably 
not a big concern... Multiple devices - might make a difference.  So if it is a 
branch you'll likely not have a problem, if it is a section of the backbone it 
might cause trouble.

 

Other than that, it is certainly worth a try.

 

Josh Muckley 

S/V Sea Hawk 

1989 C&C 37+

Solomons, MD

 

 

 

On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 17:57 Bill Coleman via CnC-List  
wrote:

I am replacing some 0183 wiring for NMEA 2000, and I bought some 2000 end 
connectors (Maretron FA-NF-ST Mini Field Attachable Connector (Female)
FA-NM-ST) that you can screw the terminals into. Some of this 0183 wiring was 
probably installed before the boat was completed, and It looks very difficult 
to re-wire. Does anyone know if I can just use the 0183 wiring to now become 
2000  compatible?  In other words, is there anything lacking in the older 
wiring, like shielding, twisting, etc, that would make this not work?

Bill Coleman
Erie PA



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Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I think the spec on the power is similar to USB.  It should be limited to
about 500 milli amps.  I guess I could check the power tee portion for a
rating.

The other question I would ask you Bill is, did you check a section of
cable that is supposed to be used for backbone?

Josh

On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 21:30 Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
wrote:

> That is an interesting point, I forgot about the power carrying
> capabilities of two of the wires. Got me curious so I pulled out a N2K
> connector to one of my components, the CPU. And it's not exactly what I
> thought I would find. The actual wires appear to be about the same gauge,
> not really sure but pretty small. But the black and red power carrying
> cables have very little insulation, and the wire appears to be twisted
> quite a bit, but the data carrying cables, the blue and white, have heavier
> insulation, but the wire strands appear to be laid straight. Kind of the
> opposite of what I would have thought of.  But there are only 4 wires, plus
> the braid around it all, which is not used on that connection.  . I guess
> the braid covering the whole thing is pulled out and becomes the fifth
> wire, the drain as they call it.  I will take some calipers down to the
> boat and compare the wire gauge of the 0183 wires to this N2K, maybe it
> will work.
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> Erie, PA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2020 6:26 PM
> *To:* C&C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility
>
>
>
> Yes there is a spec for N2K wiring and it differs from 0184, however for
> relatively short runs (or for that matter even the longer ones) you'll
> probably be OK.  The biggest thing you'll want to verify is that the gauge
> of the conductors is matched for the power wires.  In N2K you'll find a red
> and black wire that are typically larger than the signal wires.  Those red
> and black wires supply power to all of the downstream devices.  One device
> is probably not a big concern... Multiple devices - might make a
> difference.  So if it is a branch you'll likely not have a problem, if it
> is a section of the backbone it might cause trouble.
>
>
>
> Other than that, it is certainly worth a try.
>
>
>
> Josh Muckley
>
> S/V Sea Hawk
>
> 1989 C&C 37+
>
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020, 17:57 Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I am replacing some 0183 wiring for NMEA 2000, and I bought some 2000 end
> connectors (Maretron FA-NF-ST Mini Field Attachable Connector (Female)
> FA-NM-ST) that you can screw the terminals into. Some of this 0183 wiring
> was probably installed before the boat was completed, and It looks very
> difficult to re-wire. Does anyone know if I can just use the 0183 wiring to
> now become 2000  compatible?  In other words, is there anything lacking in
> the older wiring, like shielding, twisting, etc, that would make this not
> work?
>
> Bill Coleman
> Erie PA
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List Need to replace forward hatch on 35 mkIII

[Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List]

or you can try their website:   https://www.atkinshoyle.com/

On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 9:27 PM Graham Collins via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Matthew
>
> Atkins & Hoyle make the direct replacement, but there is an alternative -
> I put on a low profile stainless hatch from these guys.  
> http://www.manshipmarine.com/low-profile-deck-hatch.html
>
> 
>
> I'll look to see if I have any pics.
>
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C&C 35-III #11
>
> On 2020-04-26 10:12 p.m., Matthew Schlanger via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Hello CnC list,
>
> I was wondering if anyone knew exactly what kind and where I can find a 
> replacement for my forward hatch on a 1983 C&C 35 mkIII.
>
> I am hoping I can just get a new hatch and use the existing frame, though I 
> assume it comes with a new frame as well just in case.
>
> I measured the outer dimensions of the flanges on the frame at 20 7/8” 
> square, the outer dimensions of the hatch at ~21 13/16 square, and the inner 
> distance between the hinges on the hatch at 14 1/16”.
>
> I thought this would use a Lewmar replacement but the dimensions don’t seem 
> to match.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> This list is great, I wish I had more time to read it.
>
> Matthew Schlanger
> The Office
> 1983 C&C 35 mkIII
> Nyack NY
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility

[James Nichols via CnC-List]

Bill,

As others have said, the 0183 wire is likely to support the signal cables
but not to not support the power requirements of downstream devices, however
there are work arounds.

Often when you are replacing 0183 devices with newer N2K devices, the older
devices already had power run to them.  Using a short N2K pigtail cable, you
can splice the signal cable to your existing 0183 network cabling and the
power cables to your existing power.   Or use a power injector close to the
new device.

The idea of NMEA 2000 (N2K) was that a single cable would run through the
boat and there would be short connections (drops) to the main cable to
connect the various devices.  Think of it as a set of icicle Christmas
lights.  The main cable carries the power and the short drops connect that
power to the lights themselves.

NMEA 0183 was typically wired in one of two methods, home runs or daisy
chains. Depends on the installer.

Home runs are where all the devices were wired back to one central location
and would require that you to use something like Maretron's multiport box to
interconnect your devices.  This makes for some long wire runs to various
devices and could possibly cause intercommunication issues between devices
that are separated by the most amount of wire.  Shouldn't, but could.

If your boat was wired in a daisy chain, you would just need to replace the
connectors where the cabling went into and out of the old device and add a
T-connector to provide your drop to your device.  This wiring method would
more closely represent the main backbone system used by N2K, except your
backbone runs everywhere in the boat instead of just down the middle.

While trying to reuse the existing wiring may save you some expense in the
wire costs, typically there is an easy wiring route for a new main run
through the bilges or behind the settees. Then you just have to run the
short drops through somewhat more difficult areas.  About the most difficult
one I can think of would be getting up the walls and through the ceiling to
the place that the wires enter the mast.  All the remaining runs should be
fairly easy.

My personal opinion is that while doing things to make the existing wire
work can be done, it isn't worth the headache and expense that you would
encounter down the road when a connection that wasn't done perfectly causes
problems for the whole system.  Also, manufactures don't tend to warranty
things that are not done to spec.  So if you are purchasing new equipment,
best to go with the correct wiring also.

James
SV Kristy



Message: 2
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 17:56:32 -0400
From: "Bill Coleman" 
To: 
Subject: Stus-List NMEA 0183 vs. 2000 Wiring Compatibility
Message-ID: <1c3401d61c15$8cad8000$a6088000$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="UTF-8"

I am replacing some 0183 wiring for NMEA 2000, and I bought some 2000 end
connectors (Maretron FA-NF-ST Mini Field Attachable Connector (Female)
FA-NM-ST) that you can screw the terminals into. Some of this 0183 wiring
was probably installed before the boat was completed, and It looks very
difficult to re-wire. Does anyone know if I can just use the 0183 wiring to
now become 2000  compatible?  In other words, is there anything lacking in
the older wiring, like shielding, twisting, etc, that would make this not
work?

Bill Coleman
Erie PA
 




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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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