Stus-List Re: Engine Hours

[Rick Brass]

I’m not sure about a boat engine, because marine service is generally more 
subject to problems from bad fuel,  overheating, filters that don’t get changed 
regularly, long periods of none use, being operated too cold or at too low an 
RPM (resulting in carbon buildup) and so on.

 

In the fork lift truck business, we used to figure an hour of engine operation 
was roughly equivalent to 35 miles in a car.

 

Diesel engines in fork trucks have an average life expectancy of 12-15,000 
hours. I’m told that in larger power boats you can expect something like 
6-8,000, which would seem to indicate boat engines are twice as likely to have 
problems or maybe just wear out.

 

My M35B calls for replacing the oil filter every 100 hours of engine operation. 
I change oil and filter in my car at 3500 miles. Which would tend to suggest 
that 35miles/hour would be about equivalent.

 

As with anything else, YMMV.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: Bill Coleman [mailto:colt...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:18 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Subject: Stus-List Engine Hours

 

Rick, you seem like a good person to ask this question,

Is there a good way to estimate what the equivalent  Hours, like say 2,500 
engine hours on a boat, would translate to in Miles, (odometer reading) to 
guesstimate life span?

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: hose removal

[Josh Muckley]

I often find that I have to slice the hose axially and then peal it open in
order to get hoses off.  Of course if you want to save the hose this may
not be a good option.  In that case I would try a heat gun or hair dryer
and channel locks.  Assuming it is diesel you shouldn't have any problems
with the heat.

As for the deck fill side of the hose, remove the fill from the deck with
the hose attached. It probably needs re-bedded anyway.  Once the fill is
out you can remove the hose, reinstall new, and then rebed.  While the fill
is separated, clean up both matting surfaces, mask the deck and then place
the fill in place.  Trace the fill, remove the fill and now remove the
traced portion of the mask.  You should now have a perfect mask around
where the fill will attach to the deck.  Use 4200 to seal the interface
between the deck and fill.  After the fasteners are snug, wipe clean,
repeat, then remove the mask.  After the 4200 has cured apply the final
torque to the fasteners.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 16:06 Michael Crombie 
wrote:

> I need to replace my fuel fill hose on my 33 mk ii but the old hose really
> doesn't want to come off either the fuel tank or the deck filler.  Any
> suggestions other than brute force?   Access at the deck filler is limited
> to getting one hand through a deck plate opening.
>
> Also, I would like to replace the exhaust hose (running from the muffler
> to the through hull at the stern of the boat.).  Has anyone done this on a
> 33 mkii?  I see no way to get access to the stern end.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
> Atacama C&C 33 mkii
> Toronto
> October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to
> this list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: hose removal

[Michael Crombie]

I need to replace my fuel fill hose on my 33 mk ii but the old hose really
doesn't want to come off either the fuel tank or the deck filler.  Any
suggestions other than brute force?   Access at the deck filler is limited
to getting one hand through a deck plate opening.

Also, I would like to replace the exhaust hose (running from the muffler to
the through hull at the stern of the boat.).  Has anyone done this on a 33
mkii?  I see no way to get access to the stern end.

Thanks,

Mike
Atacama C&C 33 mkii
Toronto
October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Engine Hours

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

A rough guess to a car would be hours X about 40 for miles, but there is not a 
real equivalent like that because the duty cycle is so different.
Here is an example – Lycoming O-320 aircraft engines are rated for 2,000 hours. 
That probably is about 200,000-250,000 miles of flying. At a flight school 
where the planes are flying most days, they easily make it to 2,000 hours. Some 
operators who are not required to rebuild them (depends on the use)will get 
them past 3,000 hours and I once flew one at 4100 hours.
OTOH personal airplanes that might fly 50-100 hours a year don’t always make 
it, just sitting and rusting is worse than flying.
Boat diesels are similar, the apocryphal engines that last 10,000-20,000 hours 
are in something like a tugboat or water taxi that runs all day every day. 
Sitting for days and weeks and running briefly to get off a mooring is a 
terrible duty cycle for a diesel. Trawl through Yachtworld and probably at 
least 1/3 of the C&Cs listed from the 80s and 70s have new engines. If they 
really ran to 10-20K hours none of them would have a new engine.
The other factor is salt water. Some diesels and probably more than half of the 
Atomic 4s out there are raw water cooled. They lose a bit of themselves every 
time they run and my rough guess for an Atomic 4 in salt water is about 2,000 
hours or so before it has issues.


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: Bill Coleman [mailto:colt...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:18 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Engine Hours

Rick, you seem like a good person to ask this question,
Is there a good way to estimate what the equivalent  Hours, like say 2,500 
engine hours on a boat, would translate to in Miles, (odometer reading) to 
guesstimate life span?


Bill Coleman
Entrada, Erie, PA



October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Engine Hours

[Josh Muckley]

Bill,

I've heard people quote 25,000 hours between rebuilds for engines similar
to ours in fleet service.  That's basically taxis and work skiffs.  They
start 'em at the beginning of the day and don't shut them down except for
fuel or to go home.  They also run more or less full load most of the day
since they are "tugging" or taxiing and either way time is money.

I didn't even hesitate to buy a spare engine with 6000 hours on it.  Most
of us will kill our engines through too little use.  Rust or carbon.  Or
some other neglectful act.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 15:18 Bill Coleman  wrote:

> Rick, you seem like a good person to ask this question,
>
> Is there a good way to estimate what the equivalent  Hours, like say 2,500
> engine hours on a boat, would translate to in Miles, (odometer reading) to
> guesstimate life span?
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> Entrada, Erie, PA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to
> this list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Engine Hours

[Bill Coleman]

Rick, you seem like a good person to ask this question,

Is there a good way to estimate what the equivalent  Hours, like say 2,500 
engine hours on a boat, would translate to in Miles, (odometer reading) to 
guesstimate life span?

 

 

Bill Coleman

Entrada, Erie, PA

 

 

 

October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: water separator

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

FYI  - You can always add an electric pump after the Racor and before the 
engine that feeds back to the tank. You can turn it on to suck fuel through the 
filter after changing it to prime it and also just leave it go to clean a tank 
of fuel.


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: Rick Brass [mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 1:27 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: water separator

I was about to comment that the Racor diesel fuel filter I installed on Imzadi 
about 16 years ago had a priming pump in the filter head. I understood that the 
filter head without a priming pump was primarily used for a water filter for 
gasoline engines (mostly outboards).

I use the smallest Racor filter on Imzadi, which is designed for 15 or 20 GPH 
of fuel flow IIRC. That’s about 10 times the flow rate for my 4 cylinder M35B 
(about 1.5 GPH including the fuel returned to the tank). So I have elected to 
not replace the Racor at 500 engine hours, based on the logic that 500 hours at 
15 GPH is equivalent to 7500 hours of operation for my small diesel. I replaced 
the secondary 10 micron filter on the engine once, mostly on GPs since I use a 
10 micron Racor instead of the 30 micron that most sources recommend for a 
primary filter. (if I had a Mitsubishi diesel, or another that used a 3 micron 
secondary filter, I WOULD replace it annually.)

In 16 years (about 1400 engine hours) I’ve replaced a clogged Racor filter 3 
times (each time within about 40 miles of taking on bad fuel). It is kind of a 
PITA to change the filter and reprime when I take on bad fuel, but it happens 
so seldom that I find that method preferable to changing the filter every year 
when I change the engine oil filter. When I go full time cruising, I’ll 
probably be changing the Racor as part of the periodic maintenance every year.

Anyway, that was a long and wandering way to get to the message that the 
priming pump on my Racor has not had a problem in 16 tears of recreational use 
of the boat.

Rick Brass
Washington, NC
October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: water separator

[Rick Brass]

I was about to comment that the Racor diesel fuel filter I installed on Imzadi 
about 16 years ago had a priming pump in the filter head. I understood that the 
filter head without a priming pump was primarily used for a water filter for 
gasoline engines (mostly outboards).

 

I use the smallest Racor filter on Imzadi, which is designed for 15 or 20 GPH 
of fuel flow IIRC. That’s about 10 times the flow rate for my 4 cylinder M35B 
(about 1.5 GPH including the fuel returned to the tank). So I have elected to 
not replace the Racor at 500 engine hours, based on the logic that 500 hours at 
15 GPH is equivalent to 7500 hours of operation for my small diesel. I replaced 
the secondary 10 micron filter on the engine once, mostly on GPs since I use a 
10 micron Racor instead of the 30 micron that most sources recommend for a 
primary filter. (if I had a Mitsubishi diesel, or another that used a 3 micron 
secondary filter, I WOULD replace it annually.)

 

In 16 years (about 1400 engine hours) I’ve replaced a clogged Racor filter 3 
times (each time within about 40 miles of taking on bad fuel). It is kind of a 
PITA to change the filter and reprime when I take on bad fuel, but it happens 
so seldom that I find that method preferable to changing the filter every year 
when I change the engine oil filter. When I go full time cruising, I’ll 
probably be changing the Racor as part of the periodic maintenance every year.

 

Anyway, that was a long and wandering way to get to the message that the 
priming pump on my Racor has not had a problem in 16 tears of recreational use 
of the boat.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

From: Marek Dziedzic [mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2020 1:16 PM
To: Stus-List 
Subject: Stus-List Re: water separator

 

That option has been available for years (at least since early 90s). However, 
be aware that the seals on the pump tend to go bad after a while and it is hard 
to seal it again. 

 

I had a Racor filter like that in the past and could not stop the fuel leak 
there despite many tries. Eventually, I gave up on convenience and went with a 
filter without the pump. 

 

Marek

1994 #122 ”Legato”

Ottawa, ON

 

 

 

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Sent: 7 October, 2020 13:07
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: CNC boat owners, cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: water separator

 

I just checked Parker Racor and learned they now offer the R20P with a built-in 
hand operated priming pump and bleeder.   Looks pretty cool.  You can get it 
with a clear bowl or a metal bowl if your insurance requires that.  

 

C 

 

 

October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: boat stuff for sale

[Rick Brass]

James (and others)

 

The middle length of a symmetrical spin, and the luff of an a-sail, are 
nominally 95% of the length of the headstay of a boat. For our 38-2s with a 
52’1” headstay, that would be about 49’6”. Longer gets a penalty under PHRF. If 
you’re a cruiser, it just makes the sail a bit harder to handle and trim.

 

The luff of a regular headsail can vary depending on how the sail is used. If 
it is going into a luff tape (not a roller furler) it can be only a few inches 
shorter than the headstay length (so about 52’ for our boats). If the sail is 
going onto a roller, you must shorten the luff to allow for the furling drum at 
the bottom and the roller bearing at the top. For my installation that 
translates to something between 2’6” and 3’ – so the luff of my newest headsail 
was about 49’.

 

If my old and unreliable memory serves, Pete has a 37 (the early 80’s version) 
or a 38LF. I’d guess the a sails are oversize sails for cruising.

 

Pete:

 

If you’re seeing this, I might like to buy your crosscut Dacron jib to use as a 
#3 backup sail for my 38. Is it set up for roller furling, or perhaps for 
roller reefing with a foam or rope luff?

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

 

From: james taylor [mailto:jtsai...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 5:40 PM
To: Stus-List 
Subject: Stus-List Re: boat stuff for sale

 

I'm very interested in one of Asym spin, but the measurements of them don't 
seem to match the Genoas. I'm with Edd, what are the J, I and ISP measurements 
of your boat?

James Taylor

Delaney

C&C 38 Mk2

Oriental NC

 

On Oct 12, 2020, at 11:17 AM, mailto:pete.shelqu...@comcast.net> > mailto:pete.shelqu...@comcast.net> > wrote:

 

Please be sure to trim your messages when replying to an email.

All – 

2nd try at this listing.  I’m not sure what happened the first time, but it 
here goes again….

**

 

I have a few items for sale if anyone is interested; 

 

Cross cut dacron jib =48’10”x45’4”x16’ Good+ condition, #6 luff tape, $250

L/M #1 Dacron = 48’6” x48’x24’6” Good condition, #6 luff tape, $200

White asym spin = 55’6”x 47’6”x31’ Fair condition, $150

Green asym spin = 55’2”x 47’3”x 31’ Fair condition $150

White asym spin =55’6”x47’8”x31’  Fair condition $150

2x Barient 28 Non ST = $100 ea.

 

All prices +shipping from Minneapolis.

 

Thanks,

 

October is time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s

[nausetbeach]

Many thanks to all of you who suggested questions and offered some opinions
on my query.  The boat ticked almost every item on our boat criteria list,
but discovering the crack in the keel really caused us to hit the brakes.
While anything can get repaired, we have decided the potential additional
damage to the hull is too great a risk in a “new” boat and have passed on
this one.  Were it already ours, the repairs would have been already
underway. 

 

Thanks,

Brian

 

From: nausetbe...@optonline.net  
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 4:48 PM
To: 'Stus-List' 
Subject: Stus-List Potential "Next" Boat - Keel Issue ?'s

 

I looked at a boat yesterday that seemed like a good contender for a “next”
boat, right up until just prior to leaving I looked more closely at the keel
and found something that does not look particularly good.  I am hoping for
some sage advice from the list, as in a) walk away, or b) might be repaired,
and if so what would be entailed and is it worth it.  This would have to be
on the current owner’s tab, or a very hefty discount in the price.  

 

I tried to attach low res pics but that exceeded the list max message size,
so here is a link I hope works:  

 

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNHJ22k8kS3ukfBzXz67enViRMDw3GAOASwiS49
uupKViTIDFeNzLj1LE_pav81Yw?key=QkR1X0FXWlgyclBzY1JYcUtIckRJRGh3dzIyMURR

 

The keel has a fairly significant crack extending at least 18” aft from the
leading edge.  [The bottom was recently painted and I did not try to follow
it further aft.]  That gap [in the attached photos] is at least 3/8” on the
horizontal axis and about ¼” on the vertical.  The trailing edge has some
cracks which are not overly visible, again due to the bottom paint.
Unfortunately I did not look closely at / around the keel bolts, nor do I
have any internal photos, as I noticed this after the boat was closed up.
The boat is 4 ½ hours away so getting more photos is not feasible.  

 

To my untrained eye it appears there was a hard grounding and the keel
almost seems to have shifted aft in addition to down, based on the angle of
the line from the fairing of the hull down to the leading edge of the keel.
But there does not appear to be any movement aft at the trailing edge,
though possibly it was punched up.  This does not appear to be along the
sump / keel joint as the crack is angled upwards and is not horizontal.  The
owner claims there have been no hard groundings when asked directly, only a
handful of soft groundings, predominantly in sand, but I have read even that
can do damage.  The boat was recently under contract and surveyed and that
buyer decided against going forward.  The reasons given by the broker did
not include any mention of damage revealed during the survey.  I do not have
a copy of that buyers survey.  

 

Any thoughts on what would need to be done to remedy this, or am I better
off to move on and keep looking?  Should the keel be dropped and the keel
bolts examined?  Or would there be other, less intrusive / expensive fixes
which would be sufficient and safe?  I realize it is difficult to really
determine the best repair without physically examining the boat but any
advice on what likely would be required is appreciated.  

 

Thanks, 

Brian

 

 

October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Noise suppressors and RAM Mic cord...

[David Risch]

I have two power line noise filters and an old school Standard Horizon cockpit 
plug and cord...

Yours for shipping (and any Stu donation)
October is the time to show your appreciation with a small contribution to this 
list to help offset the costs. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu