Stus-List Re: New sails, new wind

[John Conklin via CnC-List]

Same here John ! 
Race My Etchells and Cruise the 37 :) no no PHRF stuff or agreements we only 
have 4 in the fleet but  first over the line wins - period!  super fun !   The 
whole Etchells package boat trailer and sails in excellent shape I stole for 
$3500! We Painted last year and Maybe $500 in bits and misc. parts! came with a 
brand new set of sails Including spin ! which I have not even broken out any of 
them yet !  

John C

> On Feb 9, 2021, at 6:04 PM, John McCrea via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> This discussion reinforces my racing program, a J-24 to race and my C&C 36
> to cruise. Sails on the 24 are so much cheaper, and the used market from the
> top racers supports the rest of us. I bought a set of North Racing sails
> used two days at the 2019 nationals last summer. Purchase price 3k for a
> spin, main and black Twaron/Technora class 150.. 
> 
> I race with four people tops, two that I bred and are still on the college
> payroll and one friend. Less people=less beer and food to buy! We have just
> as much fun and have the biggest class of 8-10 boats out of 50 or so on Wed
> nights. We used to have a 1989 C&C 37XL and raced that with 8 to ten, very
> expensive. All this being said the 36 has two Doyle jibs, a 150 and a 135. I
> love the 135! 
> 
> John McCrea
> 
> Cluster Duck, J 24
> Talisman, 36-1
> 
> Mystic, CT
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: David Risch via CnC-List  
> Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2021 5:51 PM
> To: Stus-List 
> Cc: David Risch 
> Subject: Stus-List Re: New sails, new wind
> 
> Bottom line with sails these days is crew.  How many and how often. Getting
> harder and harder (So I hear) to find consistent good crew.   When I raced
> with 4 headsails, 3 spinnakers etc. I had 8 on board my 40-2.   Son moved on
> in life and the adult day camp program ceased.   When I do race now its
> short-handed or solo.   Even a tacking a 135% roller is "fun" in our
> Buzzards Bay smokin' SWers when alone or with one.  Now that we can get a
> rating bump for a 125% will reduce the headsail to the 125%. And I muuch
> prefer the minimal logistics and the solitude/focused conversation with the
> less is more crew configuration.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Abbott via CnC-List  
> Sent: Tuesday, February 9, 2021 4:42 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Robert Abbott 
> Subject: Stus-List New sails, new wind
> 
> Interesting discussion on sail selection.  And that is a broad subject. What
> kind of racing?
> 
> While I have retired from racing, I clearly remember racing with a sail
> inventory4 head sails (150% light and heavy air...#1, 135%...#2, and a
> 100%..#3), 2 spinnakers (systematical 3/4 oz. and a 1/2 oz.).   Many races
> we (I as the foredeck person) was changing head sails to suit changes
> conditions.  We sometimes did a spinnaker peel (something we practiced). 
> The main stayed full until we had to go down to the #3. Much of this racing
> was on a C&C 33 MKII and a C&C 34R.
> 
> Where I sail here in Halifax Harbour, Nova Scotia, Canada, there is no one
> sail that works best for any given race day.  I am now a reacher, not a
> racer, but I still know the difference in sail selection for the conditions.
> I now sail much of the season with a furled 135%...it is my go to
> sail...many days my 100% blade is the sail to have...one day last year, a
> fellow lister here that we raced a lot together, was coming with me for an
> afternoon sail and he said "it is going to be a light air day, bring your
> 155% light air Kevlar today I did we dropped the 135% and hoisted the
> 155% and it was the right sail for the day.  The next day, no way could I
> hoist the 155%.
> 
> One head sail for racing is something I have no knowledge and/or experience
> in and therefore have no relevant or helpful advice.
> 
> If you wish to race with only one head sail, and your prevailing wind is
> around 10 knots true, my best guess would be a 135%.
> 
> Robert Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - #277
> Halifax, N.S.
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Stus-List Re: Solo racing and PHRF

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Agree Dwight,
You remind me of other reasons why a second person makes such a huge difference 
during an emergency.   The second person can double check strategy, weather, 
evaluate new tactics, etc.  

Chuck





> On 02/10/2021 5:36 PM dwight veinot via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> A really good race is a seamanship race. Tests navigational skills and 
> emergency skills even man overboard as well as sailing skills and learning 
> charts
> 
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 6:09 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > Hey David,
> >  
> > Good luck organizing your club's racing.
> >  
> > I used to be heavily involved with CHESSS, an organization on 
> > Chesapeake Bay for "Shorthanded Sailors".  The leader of CHESSS convinced 
> > every yachtclub on the bay to allow CHESSS to race in their own class and 
> > every regatta or Wed night event offered that, but it combined double 
> > handed and solo racers.  I found racing my boat solo against double handed 
> > boats to be as difficult as racing against a fully crewed boat.  Each race 
> > had a boat entered with two expert skippers and each could easily do any 
> > chore without a word.  They raced on a drysailed J-105 with new sails.  
> > They were each National Champions in J-105.  The results were loaded and 
> > predictable short of devine intervention, and they lead every race.
> >  
> > A solo sailor has to do everything alone and if anything goes 
> > wrong, has to disengage from actually racing competitively and sort out the 
> > problem and solve it on his own.  Sometimes a weekend race can turn to 
> > survival mode.  Imagine if a the autohelm dies or an important schackle 
> > opens up or there is an override on a winch.  A doublehanded boat has a 
> > person who is running the boat and a second person who can act as a floater 
> > to fix things if problems crop up and that's unfair to a solo racer.   A 
> > second person can focus on the problem while the other guy steers and and 
> > maintains a competitive course.  I'm not complaining, that's the attraction 
> > of solo sailing. 
> >  
> > Andrew Evans wrote the bible on singlehanded sailing/racing and 
> > concluded the PHRF handicap should be increased by 13 seconds.  
> > https://www.sfbaysss.org/resource/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition.pdf  
> > That's the amount of time loss from tacking and gybing sails alone, 
> > unassisted.  I think it makes sense, but no yacht club ever considered 
> > changing our PHRF ratings.  They simply took our entry money and and 
> > allowed us to race in a separate class.   
> >  
> > One of our CHESSS officers did some testing and made a record of 
> > sailing manuevers w crew vs solo and he came up with even more time.  He 
> > came up with 20 secs based on delays doing tacks and gybes alone. 
> >  
> > If I got 13 seconds, I'd feel better about racing fully crewed 
> > boats.  
> >  
> > Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C&C 34R
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > > > > On 02/10/2021 9:32 AM David Knecht via 
> > CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > >  
> > >  
> > > Unfortunately, there is only one “short-handed” race all 
> > > season in my area and that is a double-handed one day event.  There are 
> > > no single/double entry categories in any ECSA events.  I have brought up 
> > > the issue with the ECSA a number of times but got no traction.  It will 
> > > likely be the top of my priority list when I retire and have more time.  
> > > I am in charge of racing for our club this year, so may try it for some 
> > > events and see what response I get.  Dave
> > > 
> > > S/V Aries
> > > 1990 C&C 34+
> > > New London, CT
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > > > > On Feb 10, 2021, at 9:24 AM, 
> > > dwight veinot via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> > > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > > > Does the PHRF in your area adjust for deficiencies in 
> > > > crew and crew work. In some clubs that may happen based on results from 
> > > > one series to the next but even that assumes your crew is constant and 
> > > > any improvement in results will relate to the crew getting better. 
> > > > Still it’s a rather arbitrary adjustment. If you fleet race solo or 
> > > > double handed you may deserve more favourable adjustment for crew 
> > > > deficiencies than you get for sail inventory.  
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:36 AM David Knecht via 
> > > > CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Interesting 
> > > > discussion.  When I got 

Stus-List Re: Solo racing and PHRF

[David Risch via CnC-List]

Longer distance races  - 30 miles or more, can equal out the odds somewhat.   I 
will not do round the can solo.   Nice to win with a better handicap, better to 
take second place(s) rated as fully crewed going solo.   Try to keep that 
racing within light air forecasts for obvious safety reasons.   Bermuda 1-2 is 
a different story.



From: dwight veinot via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 5:36 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: dwight veinot 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Solo racing and PHRF

A really good race is a seamanship race. Tests navigational skills and 
emergency skills even man overboard as well as sailing skills and learning 
charts

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 6:09 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Hey David,

Good luck organizing your club's racing.

I used to be heavily involved with CHESSS, an organization on Chesapeake Bay 
for "Shorthanded Sailors".  The leader of CHESSS convinced every yachtclub on 
the bay to allow CHESSS to race in their own class and every regatta or Wed 
night event offered that, but it combined double handed and solo racers.  I 
found racing my boat solo against double handed boats to be as difficult as 
racing against a fully crewed boat.  Each race had a boat entered with two 
expert skippers and each could easily do any chore without a word.  They raced 
on a drysailed J-105 with new sails.  They were each National Champions in 
J-105.  The results were loaded and predictable short of devine intervention, 
and they lead every race.

A solo sailor has to do everything alone and if anything goes wrong, has to 
disengage from actually racing competitively and sort out the problem and solve 
it on his own.  Sometimes a weekend race can turn to survival mode.  Imagine if 
a the autohelm dies or an important schackle opens up or there is an override 
on a winch.  A doublehanded boat has a person who is running the boat and a 
second person who can act as a floater to fix things if problems crop up and 
that's unfair to a solo racer.   A second person can focus on the problem while 
the other guy steers and and maintains a competitive course.  I'm not 
complaining, that's the attraction of solo sailing.

Andrew Evans wrote the bible on singlehanded sailing/racing and concluded the 
PHRF handicap should be increased by 13 seconds.  
https://www.sfbaysss.org/resource/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition.pdf
  That's the amount of time loss from tacking and gybing sails alone, 
unassisted.  I think it makes sense, but no yacht club ever considered changing 
our PHRF ratings.  They simply took our entry money and and allowed us to race 
in a separate class.

One of our CHESSS officers did some testing and made a record of sailing 
manuevers w crew vs solo and he came up with even more time.  He came up with 
20 secs based on delays doing tacks and gybes alone.

If I got 13 seconds, I'd feel better about racing fully crewed boats.

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C&C 34R



On 02/10/2021 9:32 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Unfortunately, there is only one "short-handed" race all season in my area and 
that is a double-handed one day event.  There are no single/double entry 
categories in any ECSA events.  I have brought up the issue with the ECSA a 
number of times but got no traction.  It will likely be the top of my priority 
list when I retire and have more time.  I am in charge of racing for our club 
this year, so may try it for some events and see what response I get.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT
[cid:image001.png@01D6FFD4.7FA22250]


On Feb 10, 2021, at 9:24 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Does the PHRF in your area adjust for deficiencies in crew and crew work. In 
some clubs that may happen based on results from one series to the next but 
even that assumes your crew is constant and any improvement in results will 
relate to the crew getting better. Still it's a rather arbitrary adjustment. If 
you fleet race solo or double handed you may deserve more favourable adjustment 
for crew deficiencies than you get for sail inventory.

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:36 AM David Knecht via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
Interesting discussion.  When I got new string sails a few years ago, I opted 
for a 145 and a 110 genoa.  I raced for several years with small crew (3-4) 
with the 145 and only put on the 110 in the Fall when it was predicted to blow 
hard all day.  Last year, I raced solo all

Stus-List Re: Solo racing and PHRF

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

A really good race is a seamanship race. Tests navigational skills and
emergency skills even man overboard as well as sailing skills and learning
charts

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 6:09 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hey David,
>
> Good luck organizing your club's racing.
>
> I used to be heavily involved with CHESSS, an organization on Chesapeake
> Bay for "Shorthanded Sailors".  The leader of CHESSS convinced every
> yachtclub on the bay to allow CHESSS to race in their own class and every
> regatta or Wed night event offered that, but it combined double handed and
> solo racers.  I found racing my boat solo against double handed boats to be
> as difficult as racing against a fully crewed boat.  Each race had a boat
> entered with two expert skippers and each could easily do any chore without
> a word.  They raced on a drysailed J-105 with new sails.  They were each
> National Champions in J-105.  The results were loaded and predictable short
> of devine intervention, and they lead every race.
>
> A solo sailor has to do everything alone and if anything goes wrong, has
> to disengage from actually racing competitively and sort out the problem
> and solve it on his own.  Sometimes a weekend race can turn to survival
> mode.  Imagine if a the autohelm dies or an important schackle opens up or
> there is an override on a winch.  A doublehanded boat has a person who is
> running the boat and a second person who can act as a floater to fix things
> if problems crop up and that's unfair to a solo racer.   A second person
> can focus on the problem while the other guy steers and and maintains a
> competitive course.  I'm not complaining, that's the attraction of solo
> sailing.
>
> Andrew Evans wrote the bible on singlehanded sailing/racing and concluded
> the PHRF handicap should be increased by 13 seconds.
> https://www.sfbaysss.org/resource/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition.pdf
> That's the amount of time loss from tacking and gybing sails alone,
> unassisted.  I think it makes sense, but no yacht club ever considered
> changing our PHRF ratings.  They simply took our entry money and and
> allowed us to race in a separate class.
>
> One of our CHESSS officers did some testing and made a record of sailing
> manuevers w crew vs solo and he came up with even more time.  He came up
> with 20 secs based on delays doing tacks and gybes alone.
>
> If I got 13 seconds, I'd feel better about racing fully crewed boats.
>
> Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C&C 34R
>
>
>
>
> On 02/10/2021 9:32 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> Unfortunately, there is only one “short-handed” race all season in my area
> and that is a double-handed one day event.  There are no single/double
> entry categories in any ECSA events.  I have brought up the issue with the
> ECSA a number of times but got no traction.  It will likely be the top of
> my priority list when I retire and have more time.  I am in charge of
> racing for our club this year, so may try it for some events and see what
> response I get.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
> On Feb 10, 2021, at 9:24 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> Does the PHRF in your area adjust for deficiencies in crew and crew work.
> In some clubs that may happen based on results from one series to the next
> but even that assumes your crew is constant and any improvement in results
> will relate to the crew getting better. Still it’s a rather arbitrary
> adjustment. If you fleet race solo or double handed you may deserve more
> favourable adjustment for crew deficiencies than you get for sail
> inventory.
>
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:36 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Interesting discussion.  When I got new string sails a few years ago, I
> opted for a 145 and a 110 genoa.  I raced for several years with small crew
> (3-4) with the 145 and only put on the 110 in the Fall when it was
> predicted to blow hard all day.  Last year, I raced solo all season due to
> Covid and so got re-rated for the 110 (PHRF 121 went to 133).  I was
> definitely not as fast, but it was so much easier to handle the boat
> and so much more fun.  I have raced solo with the 145 and it was a killer.
>   I remember once on a 10-15 day just not being able to get the genoa
> winched in the whole way by the last beat (I was ready to add electric
> winches!).  With the 110, I did some long all day races solo with 25 knot
> winds and had a blast.  On light days, it took even more concentration than
> normal to keep the boat going with the 110, but I did not feel slow, given
> the rating boost.  IMHO, light air is about technique more than sail area.
> I thought I would get hurt more downwind than upwind by the small genoa
> (non-spinnaker racing) but that did not seem to be the case.  I did not
> finish as well overall as previous years, but I think that was as much due
> to being solo as it was to 

Stus-List Solo racing and PHRF

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Hey David,

Good luck organizing your club's racing.

I used to be heavily involved with CHESSS, an organization on Chesapeake Bay 
for "Shorthanded Sailors".  The leader of CHESSS convinced every yachtclub on 
the bay to allow CHESSS to race in their own class and every regatta or Wed 
night event offered that, but it combined double handed and solo racers.  I 
found racing my boat solo against double handed boats to be as difficult as 
racing against a fully crewed boat.  Each race had a boat entered with two 
expert skippers and each could easily do any chore without a word.  They raced 
on a drysailed J-105 with new sails.  They were each National Champions in 
J-105.  The results were loaded and predictable short of devine intervention, 
and they lead every race.

A solo sailor has to do everything alone and if anything goes wrong, has to 
disengage from actually racing competitively and sort out the problem and solve 
it on his own.  Sometimes a weekend race can turn to survival mode.  Imagine if 
a the autohelm dies or an important schackle opens up or there is an override 
on a winch.  A doublehanded boat has a person who is running the boat and a 
second person who can act as a floater to fix things if problems crop up and 
that's unfair to a solo racer.   A second person can focus on the problem while 
the other guy steers and and maintains a competitive course.  I'm not 
complaining, that's the attraction of solo sailing. 

Andrew Evans wrote the bible on singlehanded sailing/racing and concluded the 
PHRF handicap should be increased by 13 seconds.  
https://www.sfbaysss.org/resource/doc/SinglehandedTipsThirdEdition.pdf  That's 
the amount of time loss from tacking and gybing sails alone, unassisted.  I 
think it makes sense, but no yacht club ever considered changing our PHRF 
ratings.  They simply took our entry money and and allowed us to race in a 
separate class.   

One of our CHESSS officers did some testing and made a record of sailing 
manuevers w crew vs solo and he came up with even more time.  He came up with 
20 secs based on delays doing tacks and gybes alone. 

If I got 13 seconds, I'd feel better about racing fully crewed boats.  

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1989 C&C 34R




> On 02/10/2021 9:32 AM David Knecht via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> Unfortunately, there is only one “short-handed” race all season in my 
> area and that is a double-handed one day event.  There are no single/double 
> entry categories in any ECSA events.  I have brought up the issue with the 
> ECSA a number of times but got no traction.  It will likely be the top of my 
> priority list when I retire and have more time.  I am in charge of racing for 
> our club this year, so may try it for some events and see what response I 
> get.  Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> > > On Feb 10, 2021, at 9:24 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > Does the PHRF in your area adjust for deficiencies in crew and crew 
> > work. In some clubs that may happen based on results from one series to the 
> > next but even that assumes your crew is constant and any improvement in 
> > results will relate to the crew getting better. Still it’s a rather 
> > arbitrary adjustment. If you fleet race solo or double handed you may 
> > deserve more favourable adjustment for crew deficiencies than you get for 
> > sail inventory.  
> > 
> > On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:36 AM David Knecht via CnC-List < 
> > cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > 
> > > > > Interesting discussion.  When I got new 
> > string sails a few years ago, I opted for a 145 and a 110 genoa.  I raced 
> > for several years with small crew (3-4) with the 145 and only put on the 
> > 110 in the Fall when it was predicted to blow hard all day.  Last year, I 
> > raced solo all season due to Covid and so got re-rated for the 110 (PHRF 
> > 121 went to 133).  I was definitely not as fast, but it was so much 
> > easier to handle the boat and so much more fun.  I have raced solo with the 
> > 145 and it was a killer.   I remember once on a 10-15 day just not being 
> > able to get the genoa winched in the whole way by the last beat (I was 
> > ready to add electric winches!).  With the 110, I did some long all day 
> > races solo with 25 knot winds and had a blast.  On light days, it took even 
> > more concentration than normal to keep the boat going with the 110, but I 
> > did not feel slow, given the rating boost.  IMHO, light air is about 
> > technique more than sail area.  I thought I would get hurt more downwind 
> > than upwind by the small genoa (non-spinnaker racing) but that did not seem 
> > to be the case.  I did not finish as well overall as previous years, but I 
> > think that was as much due to being solo as it was to the smaller sail.  In 
> > heavi

Stus-List Re: New sails, new wind

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Unfortunately, there is only one “short-handed” race all season in my area and 
that is a double-handed one day event.  There are no single/double entry 
categories in any ECSA events.  I have brought up the issue with the ECSA a 
number of times but got no traction.  It will likely be the top of my priority 
list when I retire and have more time.  I am in charge of racing for our club 
this year, so may try it for some events and see what response I get.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



> On Feb 10, 2021, at 9:24 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Does the PHRF in your area adjust for deficiencies in crew and crew work. In 
> some clubs that may happen based on results from one series to the next but 
> even that assumes your crew is constant and any improvement in results will 
> relate to the crew getting better. Still it’s a rather arbitrary adjustment. 
> If you fleet race solo or double handed you may deserve more favourable 
> adjustment for crew deficiencies than you get for sail inventory.  
> 
> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:36 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Interesting discussion.  When I got new string sails a few years ago, I opted 
> for a 145 and a 110 genoa.  I raced for several years with small crew (3-4) 
> with the 145 and only put on the 110 in the Fall when it was predicted to 
> blow hard all day.  Last year, I raced solo all season due to Covid and so 
> got re-rated for the 110 (PHRF 121 went to 133).  I was definitely not as 
> fast, but it was so much easier to handle the boat and so much more fun.  
> I have raced solo with the 145 and it was a killer.   I remember once on a 
> 10-15 day just not being able to get the genoa winched in the whole way by 
> the last beat (I was ready to add electric winches!).  With the 110, I did 
> some long all day races solo with 25 knot winds and had a blast.  On light 
> days, it took even more concentration than normal to keep the boat going with 
> the 110, but I did not feel slow, given the rating boost.  IMHO, light air is 
> about technique more than sail area.  I thought I would get hurt more 
> downwind than upwind by the small genoa (non-spinnaker racing) but that did 
> not seem to be the case.  I did not finish as well overall as previous years, 
> but I think that was as much due to being solo as it was to the smaller sail. 
>  In heavier air, unless you have 6 bodies on the rail (which I never have), I 
> don’t think the larger sail really has benefits.  You are just overpowered 
> all the time.  So presuming you get the PHRF benefit of a smaller sail, I 
> would not hesitate to err on the smaller side.  Isn’t that what PHRF is 
> supposed to do- equalize your competitiveness given your setup?  Dave
>   
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>   Thanks - Stu
> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with 
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: New sails, new wind

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Does the PHRF in your area adjust for deficiencies in crew and crew work.
In some clubs that may happen based on results from one series to the next
but even that assumes your crew is constant and any improvement in results
will relate to the crew getting better. Still it’s a rather arbitrary
adjustment. If you fleet race solo or double handed you may deserve more
favourable adjustment for crew deficiencies than you get for sail
inventory.

On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:36 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Interesting discussion.  When I got new string sails a few years ago, I
> opted for a 145 and a 110 genoa.  I raced for several years with small crew
> (3-4) with the 145 and only put on the 110 in the Fall when it was
> predicted to blow hard all day.  Last year, I raced solo all season due to
> Covid and so got re-rated for the 110 (PHRF 121 went to 133).  I was
> definitely not as fast, but it was so much easier to handle the boat
> and so much more fun.  I have raced solo with the 145 and it was a killer.
>   I remember once on a 10-15 day just not being able to get the genoa
> winched in the whole way by the last beat (I was ready to add electric
> winches!).  With the 110, I did some long all day races solo with 25 knot
> winds and had a blast.  On light days, it took even more concentration than
> normal to keep the boat going with the 110, but I did not feel slow, given
> the rating boost.  IMHO, light air is about technique more than sail area.
> I thought I would get hurt more downwind than upwind by the small genoa
> (non-spinnaker racing) but that did not seem to be the case.  I did not
> finish as well overall as previous years, but I think that was as much due
> to being solo as it was to the smaller sail.  In heavier air, unless you
> have 6 bodies on the rail (which I never have), I don’t think the larger
> sail really has benefits.  You are just overpowered all the time.  So
> presuming you get the PHRF benefit of a smaller sail, I would not hesitate
> to err on the smaller side.  Isn’t that what PHRF is supposed to do-
> equalize your competitiveness given your setup?  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: New sails, new wind

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Interesting discussion.  When I got new string sails a few years ago, I opted 
for a 145 and a 110 genoa.  I raced for several years with small crew (3-4) 
with the 145 and only put on the 110 in the Fall when it was predicted to blow 
hard all day.  Last year, I raced solo all season due to Covid and so got 
re-rated for the 110 (PHRF 121 went to 133).  I was definitely not as fast, but 
it was so much easier to handle the boat and so much more fun.  I have 
raced solo with the 145 and it was a killer.   I remember once on a 10-15 day 
just not being able to get the genoa winched in the whole way by the last beat 
(I was ready to add electric winches!).  With the 110, I did some long all day 
races solo with 25 knot winds and had a blast.  On light days, it took even 
more concentration than normal to keep the boat going with the 110, but I did 
not feel slow, given the rating boost.  IMHO, light air is about technique more 
than sail area.  I thought I would get hurt more downwind than upwind by the 
small genoa (non-spinnaker racing) but that did not seem to be the case.  I did 
not finish as well overall as previous years, but I think that was as much due 
to being solo as it was to the smaller sail.  In heavier air, unless you have 6 
bodies on the rail (which I never have), I don’t think the larger sail really 
has benefits.  You are just overpowered all the time.  So presuming you get the 
PHRF benefit of a smaller sail, I would not hesitate to err on the smaller 
side.  Isn’t that what PHRF is supposed to do- equalize your competitiveness 
given your setup?  Dave
  
S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
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Stus-List Re: New sails, new wind

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

If Charlie is interested in spending serious money for one headsail in
order to get better racing results then I think he would be well advised to
get really serious about racing and be prepared to part with more serious
money for a headsail inventory. My c&c 35 loses a lot if i neglect a needed
headsail change when conditions dictate. So you are correct in your reply.
Our boats need the proper headsail to do their best in all conditions and
aside from having the inventory you crew needs to be able to make efficient
headsail changes on the fly. Rather than be frustrated because you don’t
have the best sail for the conditions maybe just race when the conditions
are appropriate for the one good sail you have.  Furling headsails are very
nice but on our boats not the best for racing and relying on handicap
adjustments is not that good either. My 35 probably requires at minimum 6
good sailors to race at it best and maybe more at high windspeed to put
weight on the windward rail to keep heel angle below 20 degrees

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 5:41 PM Robert Abbott via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Interesting discussion on sail selection.  And that is a broad subject.
> What kind of racing?
>
> While I have retired from racing, I clearly remember racing with a sail
> inventory4 head sails (150% light and heavy air...#1, 135%...#2, and
> a 100%..#3), 2 spinnakers (systematical 3/4 oz. and a 1/2 oz.).   Many
> races we (I as the foredeck person) was changing head sails to suit
> changes conditions.  We sometimes did a spinnaker peel (something we
> practiced).  The main stayed full until we had to go down to the #3.
> Much of this racing was on a C&C 33 MKII and a C&C 34R.
>
> Where I sail here in Halifax Harbour, Nova Scotia, Canada, there is no
> one sail that works best for any given race day.  I am now a reacher,
> not a racer, but I still know the difference in sail selection for the
> conditions. I now sail much of the season with a furled 135%...it is my
> go to sail...many days my 100% blade is the sail to have...one day last
> year, a fellow lister here that we raced a lot together, was coming with
> me for an afternoon sail and he said "it is going to be a light air day,
> bring your 155% light air Kevlar today I did we dropped the 135% and
> hoisted the 155% and it was the right sail for the day.  The next day,
> no way could I hoist the 155%.
>
> One head sail for racing is something I have no knowledge and/or
> experience in and therefore have no relevant or helpful advice.
>
> If you wish to race with only one head sail, and your prevailing wind is
> around 10 knots true, my best guess would be a 135%.
>
> Robert Abbott
> AZURA
> C&C 32 - #277
> Halifax, N.S.
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu

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Sent from Gmail Mobile
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu