Stus-List Re: Binder #7 GHC photos
JK; another wonderful collection of photos; these, as with the prior binders, are just awesome to peruse; sometimes you can feel the water and her the sails flap in in the breeze! Thank you for sharing these photos; Richard s/v Bushmark4; 1985 C 37; CB; Ohio River, Mile 596 Richard N. Bush Law Offices 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 502-584-7255 -Original Message- From: JohnKelly Cuthbertson via CnC-List To: Stus-List Cc: JohnKelly Cuthbertson Sent: Sun, Nov 28, 2021 8:26 pm Subject: Stus-List Binder #7 GHC photos The ground is turning white up here, the water is turning solid so it's time to sit in that comfy chair and dream of sun and fair winds. Open your favourite device and browse the collection of photos George Harding Cuthbertson had kept. Each one a part of the dream. Binder #7 - GHC Photos https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D023919_94423331_3175675 As always the plug to get the collection of C drawings at the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes in Kingston digitized. If you have helped, thank you. There is a young person coming in every Wednesday to begin the large process I've been told. If you could spare a contribution to help in this endeavor https://www.canadahelps.org/en/dn/60975 Enjoy JohnKelly Cuthbertson Binder # 1 - (1929) 1944 to 1969 https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D023919_94423331_3756405 Binder # 2 - 1969 to 1982 https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D023919_94423331_3015985 Binder # 3 - 1982 to 2008 https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D023919_94423331_3261504 Binder # 4 - 2009 - Not Released Yet Binder # 5 - Job Index 1950 - 1979 https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D023919_94423331_3816606 Binder #6 - GHC Slides https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D023919_94423331_3175593 Binder #7 - GHC Photos - https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D023919_94423331_3175675 Binder # 8 - not there yet Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Winter Plans
Martin, send photos...or links to photos! thanks Richard Richard N. Bush Law Offices 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 502-584-7255 -Original Message- From: Martin DeYoung via CnC-List To: Stus-List Cc: Martin DeYoung Sent: Tue, Nov 30, 2021 10:06 pm Subject: Stus-List Re: Winter Plans Calypso’s winter will start off brightly lit as I will be decorating her with Christmas lights for the first time. The Port Ludlow marina sponsors a competition and a party. There’s rumor of a informal lighted boat parade which I will join if I can recruit reliable crew. After that it’s back to sanding and painting the interior then reassembling the teak trim and various pieces removed for repairs and paint. I do expect to go sailing this spring/summer regardless of how complete the interior repainting is. Martin DeYoungCalypso 1971 C 43Port Ludlow/Seattle On Nov 29, 2021, at 7:46 AM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List wrote: What have you? I was just informed my son and his buddy want to do a winter break cruise. This means leaving the dinghy in the water until January, so I think they just got volunteered to be the ones that get wet hauling it out after the cruise I just got the bottom cleaned a couple of weeks ago and did a tune-up on the engine, so at least we should be fast. Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35 MK I Kent Island MD USA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Winter Plans
Calypso’s winter will start off brightly lit as I will be decorating her with Christmas lights for the first time. The Port Ludlow marina sponsors a competition and a party. There’s rumor of a informal lighted boat parade which I will join if I can recruit reliable crew. After that it’s back to sanding and painting the interior then reassembling the teak trim and various pieces removed for repairs and paint. I do expect to go sailing this spring/summer regardless of how complete the interior repainting is. Martin DeYoung Calypso 1971 C 43 Port Ludlow/Seattle On Nov 29, 2021, at 7:46 AM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List wrote: What have you? I was just informed my son and his buddy want to do a winter break cruise. This means leaving the dinghy in the water until January, so I think they just got volunteered to be the ones that get wet hauling it out after the cruise I just got the bottom cleaned a couple of weeks ago and did a tune-up on the engine, so at least we should be fast. Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35 MK I Kent Island MD USA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Burnished bottom paint
No, but we did add "turbulators" to the tail section of the GBU-24 Bunker Buster Guided Bomb to break up the boundary layer between the bomb body and the wing section, causing turbulent flow over the wings. Neil Schiller 1983 C #5-3, #028, "Grace" Whitehall, Michigan On 11/30/2021 6:05 PM, Graham Collins via CnC-List wrote: Indeed. You don't see dimples on the wings of aircraft, for a good reason... Graham Collins CS 36T On 2021-11-30 3:50 p.m., Dreuge via CnC-List wrote: On Nov 30, 2021, at 1:47 PM, Doug via CnC-List wrote: This is the reason golf balls have dimples. Aides in better flight, less resistance. Yes (if spinning) and No (as it adds lateral resistance). Going with a smooth surface is the overall best approach as it promotes smooth laminar flow. There are times when a ruff surface helps maintain laminar flow. For example, the dimples on a golf ball create a thin turbulent layer which drags air and helps keep the lamina flow closer to the surface behind the ball. The dimples add resistance to the flow but reduces the air wake behind the ball which reduces the overall drag force. The laminar flow around a smooth ball does not wrap around the back of the ball as well and leaves a larger wake. The larger the wake, the larger the drag. I think it would be foolish to add dimples or an orange peel bottom, unless you have the resources to model and measure the effect for a particular boat. Maybe adding some aft ruffness as the hull as turns inward, but this will strongly depend on the individual hull shape and likely have a positive effect at high water speeds (and a negative effect at low). Of course, a great way to reduce one's wake is to foil. Most may recall that dimples of a spinning golf ball help in another and bigger way by providing lift(i.e. aids in better flight). The spinning dimples drag air towards incoming flow and drag air away from the flow on the opposite side causing a high/low pressure difference (i.e. lateral lift force). This latter effect has not yet been exploited by sailors. Who knows, maybe we’ll see a spinning belted keel in the future driven by Kiwi’s pedal power. - Paul E. 1981 C Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Fort Walton Beach, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List List Burnished bottom paint
Here's an interesting article explaining the benefits of a smooth bottom, keel and rudder. There is actually some testing that went into the results. Worth a read. https://www.gp14.org/a-smooth-bottom-is-a-fast-bottom/ Ted DrossosC 110S/V Lady in RedBay Shore, NYThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Burnished bottom paint
Indeed. You don't see dimples on the wings of aircraft, for a good reason... Graham Collins CS 36T On 2021-11-30 3:50 p.m., Dreuge via CnC-List wrote: On Nov 30, 2021, at 1:47 PM, Doug via CnC-List wrote: This is the reason golf balls have dimples. Aides in better flight, less resistance. Yes (if spinning) and No (as it adds lateral resistance). Going with a smooth surface is the overall best approach as it promotes smooth laminar flow. There are times when a ruff surface helps maintain laminar flow. For example, the dimples on a golf ball create a thin turbulent layer which drags air and helps keep the lamina flow closer to the surface behind the ball. The dimples add resistance to the flow but reduces the air wake behind the ball which reduces the overall drag force. The laminar flow around a smooth ball does not wrap around the back of the ball as well and leaves a larger wake. The larger the wake, the larger the drag. I think it would be foolish to add dimples or an orange peel bottom, unless you have the resources to model and measure the effect for a particular boat. Maybe adding some aft ruffness as the hull as turns inward, but this will strongly depend on the individual hull shape and likely have a positive effect at high water speeds (and a negative effect at low). Of course, a great way to reduce one's wake is to foil. Most may recall that dimples of a spinning golf ball help in another and bigger way by providing lift(i.e. aids in better flight). The spinning dimples drag air towards incoming flow and drag air away from the flow on the opposite side causing a high/low pressure difference (i.e. lateral lift force). This latter effect has not yet been exploited by sailors. Who knows, maybe we’ll see a spinning belted keel in the future driven by Kiwi’s pedal power. - Paul E. 1981 C Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Fort Walton Beach, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - StuThanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Burnished bottom paint
> On Nov 30, 2021, at 1:47 PM, Doug via CnC-List wrote: > > This is the reason golf balls have dimples. Aides in better flight, less > resistance. > > > Yes (if spinning) and No (as it adds lateral resistance). Going with a smooth surface is the overall best approach as it promotes smooth laminar flow. There are times when a ruff surface helps maintain laminar flow. For example, the dimples on a golf ball create a thin turbulent layer which drags air and helps keep the lamina flow closer to the surface behind the ball. The dimples add resistance to the flow but reduces the air wake behind the ball which reduces the overall drag force. The laminar flow around a smooth ball does not wrap around the back of the ball as well and leaves a larger wake. The larger the wake, the larger the drag. I think it would be foolish to add dimples or an orange peel bottom, unless you have the resources to model and measure the effect for a particular boat. Maybe adding some aft ruffness as the hull as turns inward, but this will strongly depend on the individual hull shape and likely have a positive effect at high water speeds (and a negative effect at low). Of course, a great way to reduce one's wake is to foil. Most may recall that dimples of a spinning golf ball help in another and bigger way by providing lift(i.e. aids in better flight). The spinning dimples drag air towards incoming flow and drag air away from the flow on the opposite side causing a high/low pressure difference (i.e. lateral lift force). This latter effect has not yet been exploited by sailors. Who knows, maybe we’ll see a spinning belted keel in the future driven by Kiwi’s pedal power. - Paul E. 1981 C Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Fort Walton Beach, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Burnished bottom paint
This is the reason golf balls have dimples. Aides in better flight, less resistance. Doug Mountjoy sv Rebecca Leah C & C Landfall 39Port Orchard Yacht Club Port Orchard, WA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: Burnished bottom paint
Dave, I use Interlux VC Offshore for my race boat, j-24 and Interlux micron WA on my cruising boat, a 36-1, Talisman, (Which is about three boats behind you at your winter yard.) Both boats sit in the Mystic River. I did an original spray job on the 24 three years ago and now just do a touch up roll and tip and then wet sand down to 1000. I have burnished with steel wool in the past but really do not think it gets it much better than the 1000 grit. Usually, the mistakes we make above water more than cancel out anything bottom related! I just made the switch to the Micron on the 36 and while it is not designed to be a race bottom paint I really like it. Easy water-based cleanup and covers great and pretty good protection. I have found that VC Offshore and Baltoplate seem to be the primary racing paints used around here and the antifouling characteristics are not that great. I need to scrub weekly for wed night races and if I am doing a sat regatta it will need it again. A lot of locals are using Petit Vivid as well. It is a harder paint than the ablatives. Not sure if you can actually burnish it. Practical Sailor has done some good paint review tests but they are not evaluating speed. Good luck! John McCrea Mystic, CT Talisman 1979-36-1 Cluster Duck J24 From: David Knecht via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 12:46 PM To: CnC CnC discussion list Cc: David Knecht Subject: Stus-List Burnished bottom paint I have been considering what kind of bottom paint to use in the future and it seems that most racers have a very hard/smooth/burnished bottom on their boats. So, I was wondering if there is data to support that this is important. One reason for asking is that in addition to being a sailor, I am also a cyclist. A few years ago, the hypothesis that was accepted by all cyclists, including pro teams, was that thin, high pressure tires were the fastest. Then someone actually did the experimental science, and found that wider, lower pressure tires were actually as fast or faster. Counterintuitive, but data trumps intuition, and that is why we should test obvious and intuitive assumptions. So my question is, has anyone seen actual experimental data on comparing different smoothnesses and type of bottom paint vs. boat speed under controlled conditions? Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Burnished bottom paint
David I read long ago an article by some America's Cup sailors about this very topic about which bottom was fasterthe article said the sailors found that a bottom the consistency of something like 'an orange peel' was the fastestthey said a smooth bottom contributes to too much friction between it and the water flowing over it. Whereas the orange peel bottom causes a turbulence which lowered the friction between the bottom and the flow of the water actually made it faster. I have no first hand knowledge of thisjust what I read. Rob Abbott AZURA C 32 - #277 Halifax, N.S. On 2021-11-30 1:45 p.m., David Knecht via CnC-List wrote: I have been considering what kind of bottom paint to use in the future and it seems that most racers have a very hard/smooth/burnished bottom on their boats. So, I was wondering if there is data to support that this is important. One reason for asking is that in addition to being a sailor, I am also a cyclist. A few years ago, the hypothesis that was accepted by all cyclists, including pro teams, was that thin, high pressure tires were the fastest. Then someone actually did the experimental science, and found that wider, lower pressure tires were actually as fast or faster. Counterintuitive, but data trumps intuition, and that is why we should test obvious and intuitive assumptions. So my question is, has anyone seen actual experimental data on comparing different smoothnesses and type of bottom paint vs. boat speed under controlled conditions? Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Burnished bottom paint
I have been considering what kind of bottom paint to use in the future and it seems that most racers have a very hard/smooth/burnished bottom on their boats. So, I was wondering if there is data to support that this is important. One reason for asking is that in addition to being a sailor, I am also a cyclist. A few years ago, the hypothesis that was accepted by all cyclists, including pro teams, was that thin, high pressure tires were the fastest. Then someone actually did the experimental science, and found that wider, lower pressure tires were actually as fast or faster. Counterintuitive, but data trumps intuition, and that is why we should test obvious and intuitive assumptions. So my question is, has anyone seen actual experimental data on comparing different smoothnesses and type of bottom paint vs. boat speed under controlled conditions? Thanks- Dave S/V Aries 1990 C 34+ New London, CT Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
Stus-List Re: C to race - cold weather discussion topic
IMHO the C 33 3/4 Ton Special - and maybe the "ordinary" 33 - are good boats for PHRF. We raced against one for years and probably beat them over the line 50% of the time. They rated something like 144 to our 120, so actually beating them on corrected time was quite hard to do. The boats seemed about as even as boats can be without being the same type. It wasn't prep or crew, that was all about even and we actually swapped crews around sometimes. Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35 MK I Kent Island MD USA Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the costs involved. If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks - Stu
