Stus-List Re: It's a jungle down here

[Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List]

 Good grief!  Those weeds look better and thicker than my lawn.RonWild CheriC&C 
30-1STL

On Monday, September 12, 2022, 08:16:19 PM CDT, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 Touche's slip is on Bayou Castine on the north shore of Lake Pontchartrain.  
Fairly tropical most of the year.
Monday I went for a nice sail on the lake.  Well, nice if you don't count the 
biting flies and love bugs.  If you don't know about love bugs, Google them.  
They're disgusting creatures whose only natural enemies are Kenworths and 
Peterbilts.  They occur in spring and late summer.
Just out of my slip I saw a 5-7 foot alligator then another about 8-9 feet.  
The bayou has developed a prolific growth of water weeds.  As I came to a tight 
spot in the bayou, the weeds forced Touche' and a Catalina 34 to pass close 
aboard in a narrow section of the bayou.
When I returned to the slip, the weather was deteriorating and I wanted to get 
Touche' tied up before the storm hit.  Oh, crap!  A large island of weeds had 
drifted across the entrance to Touche's slip.  I tried to back up to it, grab 
it with a boat hook and move it out of the way.  No luck.  The storm was 
approaching fast so I just powered into the slip bow first pushing the weeds in 
with me.  The island of weeds wrapped around the bow and keel.  I normally back 
in.  The dock lines worked and Touche' was safely tied up when the storm hit.  
It was raining hard and I was reluctant to get wet to retrieve the shore power 
cord to fire up the air conditioning.  All that was missing was for The Rock to 
show up in his Jungle Cruise costume.
During the storm, I sweated and pondered how to clear the weeds.  Fortunately, 
the storm killed any wind.  I backed out of the slip, motored around to the far 
side of my pier, tied Touche's stern to the pier and used the propwash to blow 
the weeds out of the slip and into the bayou.  I could then pull back around 
the pier and back into the slip normally.  
The harbormaster said he'd contacted Wildlife and Fisheries to come spray the 
weeds.  Estimated 2-3 weeks.  What joy!
Here's pictures:  
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qIsKMu82fMUa_zSF_QhDqLjBycwYQCx2?usp=sharing

The one titled "Weeds blown out" shows using the propwash to clear the slip.-- 
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, LA  

Stus-List Re: It's a jungle down here

[Edward Levert via CnC-List]

Sounds like a typical Lake Pontchartrain sail!

Ed Levert
C&C 34 Briar Patch
New Orleans 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2022, at 8:47 PM, Todd Williams via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Wow! I have never seen WEEDS like that. It is a jungle!
> 
> Up here in New York we get marine growth from the lake bottom that reaches 
> the surface about this time of year. Apparently this weekend we had five 
> boats that collected enough weeds to foul their propellers and render the 
> boat inoperable. Two couldn’t coast to the dock and needed to be retrieved 
> with another vessel. The talk from the wise ones is that this year the weeds 
> have been the worst ever.
> 
> Some marinas have a device to trim the weeds with a big set of shears like 
> you would use for a Marines’ crew cut and a conveyer belt to hoist the 
> cuttings on to a barge. Agricultural runoff pollution is often to blame for 
> the prolific growth.
> 
> Fun times!
> 
> TODD
> Indigo Out We Go
> Sodus Bay, NY
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 9:33 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Wild story.  Smart solution.  
>>> On 09/12/2022 9:15 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Touche's slip is on Bayou Castine on the north shore of Lake Pontchartrain. 
>>>  Fairly tropical most of the year.
>>> 
>>> Monday I went for a nice sail on the lake.  Well, nice if you don't count 
>>> the biting flies and love bugs.  If you don't know about love bugs, Google 
>>> them.  They're disgusting creatures whose only natural enemies are 
>>> Kenworths and Peterbilts.  They occur in spring and late summer.
>>> 
>>> Just out of my slip I saw a 5-7 foot alligator then another about 8-9 feet. 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The bayou has developed a prolific growth of water weeds.  As I came to a 
>>> tight spot in the bayou, the weeds forced Touche' and a Catalina 34 to pass 
>>> close aboard in a narrow section of the bayou.
>>> 
>>> When I returned to the slip, the weather was deteriorating and I wanted to 
>>> get Touche' tied up before the storm hit.  Oh, crap!  A large island of 
>>> weeds had drifted across the entrance to Touche's slip.  I tried to back up 
>>> to it, grab it with a boat hook and move it out of the way.  No luck.  The 
>>> storm was approaching fast so I just powered into the slip bow first 
>>> pushing the weeds in with me.  The island of weeds wrapped around the bow 
>>> and keel.  I normally back in.  The dock lines worked and Touche' was 
>>> safely tied up when the storm hit.  It was raining hard and I was reluctant 
>>> to get wet to retrieve the shore power cord to fire up the air 
>>> conditioning.  All that was missing was for The Rock to show up in his 
>>> Jungle Cruise costume.
>>> 
>>> During the storm, I sweated and pondered how to clear the weeds.  
>>> Fortunately, the storm killed any wind.  I backed out of the slip, motored 
>>> around to the far side of my pier, tied Touche's stern to the pier and used 
>>> the propwash to blow the weeds out of the slip and into the bayou.  I could 
>>> then pull back around the pier and back into the slip normally.  
>>> 
>>> The harbormaster said he'd contacted Wildlife and Fisheries to come spray 
>>> the weeds.  Estimated 2-3 weeks.  What joy!
>>> 
>>> Here's pictures:  
>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qIsKMu82fMUa_zSF_QhDqLjBycwYQCx2?usp=sharing
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The one titled "Weeds blown out" shows using the propwash to clear the slip.
>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Dennis C.
>>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>>> Mandeville, LA

Stus-List Re: It's a jungle down here

[Joel Delamirande via CnC-List]

Wow time to cut the lawn

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 9:47 PM Todd Williams via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Wow! I have never seen WEEDS like that. It is a jungle!
>
> Up here in New York we get marine growth from the lake bottom that reaches
> the surface about this time of year. Apparently this weekend we had five
> boats that collected enough weeds to foul their propellers and render the
> boat inoperable. Two couldn’t coast to the dock and needed to be retrieved
> with another vessel. The talk from the wise ones is that this year the
> weeds have been the worst ever.
>
> Some marinas have a device to trim the weeds with a big set of shears like
> you would use for a Marines’ crew cut and a conveyer belt to hoist the
> cuttings on to a barge. Agricultural runoff pollution is often to blame for
> the prolific growth.
>
> Fun times!
>
> TODD
> Indigo Out We Go
> Sodus Bay, NY
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 9:33 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Wild story.  Smart solution.
>>
>> On 09/12/2022 9:15 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Touche's slip is on Bayou Castine on the north shore of Lake
>> Pontchartrain.  Fairly tropical most of the year.
>>
>> Monday I went for a nice sail on the lake.  Well, nice if you don't count
>> the biting flies and love bugs.  If you don't know about love bugs, Google
>> them.  They're disgusting creatures whose only natural enemies are
>> Kenworths and Peterbilts.  They occur in spring and late summer.
>>
>> Just out of my slip I saw a 5-7 foot alligator then another about 8-9
>> feet.
>>
>> The bayou has developed a prolific growth of water weeds.  As I came to a
>> tight spot in the bayou, the weeds forced Touche' and a Catalina 34 to pass
>> close aboard in a narrow section of the bayou.
>>
>> When I returned to the slip, the weather was deteriorating and I wanted
>> to get Touche' tied up before the storm hit.  Oh, crap!  A large island of
>> weeds had drifted across the entrance to Touche's slip.  I tried to back up
>> to it, grab it with a boat hook and move it out of the way.  No luck.  The
>> storm was approaching fast so I just powered into the slip bow first
>> pushing the weeds in with me.  The island of weeds wrapped around the bow
>> and keel.  I normally back in.  The dock lines worked and Touche' was
>> safely tied up when the storm hit.  It was raining hard and I was reluctant
>> to get wet to retrieve the shore power cord to fire up the air
>> conditioning.  All that was missing was for The Rock to show up in his
>> Jungle Cruise costume.
>>
>> During the storm, I sweated and pondered how to clear the weeds.
>> Fortunately, the storm killed any wind.  I backed out of the slip, motored
>> around to the far side of my pier, tied Touche's stern to the pier and used
>> the propwash to blow the weeds out of the slip and into the bayou.  I could
>> then pull back around the pier and back into the slip normally.
>>
>> The harbormaster said he'd contacted Wildlife and Fisheries to come spray
>> the weeds.  Estimated 2-3 weeks.  What joy!
>>
>> Here's pictures:
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qIsKMu82fMUa_zSF_QhDqLjBycwYQCx2?usp=sharing
>>
>> The one titled "Weeds blown out" shows using the propwash to clear the
>> slip.
>>
>> --
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> --
Joel Delamirande
*www.jdroofing.ca *

Stus-List Re: It's a jungle down here

[Todd Williams via CnC-List]

Wow! I have never seen WEEDS like that. It is a jungle!

Up here in New York we get marine growth from the lake bottom that reaches
the surface about this time of year. Apparently this weekend we had five
boats that collected enough weeds to foul their propellers and render the
boat inoperable. Two couldn’t coast to the dock and needed to be retrieved
with another vessel. The talk from the wise ones is that this year the
weeds have been the worst ever.

Some marinas have a device to trim the weeds with a big set of shears like
you would use for a Marines’ crew cut and a conveyer belt to hoist the
cuttings on to a barge. Agricultural runoff pollution is often to blame for
the prolific growth.

Fun times!

TODD
Indigo Out We Go
Sodus Bay, NY

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 9:33 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Wild story.  Smart solution.
>
> On 09/12/2022 9:15 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> Touche's slip is on Bayou Castine on the north shore of Lake
> Pontchartrain.  Fairly tropical most of the year.
>
> Monday I went for a nice sail on the lake.  Well, nice if you don't count
> the biting flies and love bugs.  If you don't know about love bugs, Google
> them.  They're disgusting creatures whose only natural enemies are
> Kenworths and Peterbilts.  They occur in spring and late summer.
>
> Just out of my slip I saw a 5-7 foot alligator then another about 8-9
> feet.
>
> The bayou has developed a prolific growth of water weeds.  As I came to a
> tight spot in the bayou, the weeds forced Touche' and a Catalina 34 to pass
> close aboard in a narrow section of the bayou.
>
> When I returned to the slip, the weather was deteriorating and I wanted to
> get Touche' tied up before the storm hit.  Oh, crap!  A large island of
> weeds had drifted across the entrance to Touche's slip.  I tried to back up
> to it, grab it with a boat hook and move it out of the way.  No luck.  The
> storm was approaching fast so I just powered into the slip bow first
> pushing the weeds in with me.  The island of weeds wrapped around the bow
> and keel.  I normally back in.  The dock lines worked and Touche' was
> safely tied up when the storm hit.  It was raining hard and I was reluctant
> to get wet to retrieve the shore power cord to fire up the air
> conditioning.  All that was missing was for The Rock to show up in his
> Jungle Cruise costume.
>
> During the storm, I sweated and pondered how to clear the weeds.
> Fortunately, the storm killed any wind.  I backed out of the slip, motored
> around to the far side of my pier, tied Touche's stern to the pier and used
> the propwash to blow the weeds out of the slip and into the bayou.  I could
> then pull back around the pier and back into the slip normally.
>
> The harbormaster said he'd contacted Wildlife and Fisheries to come spray
> the weeds.  Estimated 2-3 weeks.  What joy!
>
> Here's pictures:
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qIsKMu82fMUa_zSF_QhDqLjBycwYQCx2?usp=sharing
>
> The one titled "Weeds blown out" shows using the propwash to clear the
> slip.
>
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
>

Stus-List Re: It's a jungle down here

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Wild story.  Smart solution. 

> On 09/12/2022 9:15 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Touche's slip is on Bayou Castine on the north shore of Lake 
> Pontchartrain.  Fairly tropical most of the year.
> 
> Monday I went for a nice sail on the lake.  Well, nice if you don't count 
> the biting flies and love bugs.  If you don't know about love bugs, Google 
> them.  They're disgusting creatures whose only natural enemies are Kenworths 
> and Peterbilts.  They occur in spring and late summer.
> 
> Just out of my slip I saw a 5-7 foot alligator then another about 8-9 
> feet.  
> 
> The bayou has developed a prolific growth of water weeds.  As I came to a 
> tight spot in the bayou, the weeds forced Touche' and a Catalina 34 to pass 
> close aboard in a narrow section of the bayou.
> 
> When I returned to the slip, the weather was deteriorating and I wanted 
> to get Touche' tied up before the storm hit.  Oh, crap!  A large island of 
> weeds had drifted across the entrance to Touche's slip.  I tried to back up 
> to it, grab it with a boat hook and move it out of the way.  No luck.  The 
> storm was approaching fast so I just powered into the slip bow first pushing 
> the weeds in with me.  The island of weeds wrapped around the bow and keel.  
> I normally back in.  The dock lines worked and Touche' was safely tied up 
> when the storm hit.  It was raining hard and I was reluctant to get wet to 
> retrieve the shore power cord to fire up the air conditioning.  All that was 
> missing was for The Rock to show up in his Jungle Cruise costume.
> 
> During the storm, I sweated and pondered how to clear the weeds.  
> Fortunately, the storm killed any wind.  I backed out of the slip, motored 
> around to the far side of my pier, tied Touche's stern to the pier and used 
> the propwash to blow the weeds out of the slip and into the bayou.  I could 
> then pull back around the pier and back into the slip normally.  
> 
> The harbormaster said he'd contacted Wildlife and Fisheries to come spray 
> the weeds.  Estimated 2-3 weeks.  What joy!
> 
> Here's pictures:  
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qIsKMu82fMUa_zSF_QhDqLjBycwYQCx2?usp=sharing
> 
> The one titled "Weeds blown out" shows using the propwash to clear the 
> slip.
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 

Stus-List It's a jungle down here

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Touche's slip is on Bayou Castine on the north shore of Lake
Pontchartrain.  Fairly tropical most of the year.

Monday I went for a nice sail on the lake.  Well, nice if you don't count
the biting flies and love bugs.  If you don't know about love bugs, Google
them.  They're disgusting creatures whose only natural enemies are
Kenworths and Peterbilts.  They occur in spring and late summer.

Just out of my slip I saw a 5-7 foot alligator then another about 8-9
feet.

The bayou has developed a prolific growth of water weeds.  As I came to a
tight spot in the bayou, the weeds forced Touche' and a Catalina 34 to pass
close aboard in a narrow section of the bayou.

When I returned to the slip, the weather was deteriorating and I wanted to
get Touche' tied up before the storm hit.  Oh, crap!  A large island of
weeds had drifted across the entrance to Touche's slip.  I tried to back up
to it, grab it with a boat hook and move it out of the way.  No luck.  The
storm was approaching fast so I just powered into the slip bow first
pushing the weeds in with me.  The island of weeds wrapped around the bow
and keel.  I normally back in.  The dock lines worked and Touche' was
safely tied up when the storm hit.  It was raining hard and I was reluctant
to get wet to retrieve the shore power cord to fire up the air
conditioning.  All that was missing was for The Rock to show up in his
Jungle Cruise costume.

During the storm, I sweated and pondered how to clear the weeds.
Fortunately, the storm killed any wind.  I backed out of the slip, motored
around to the far side of my pier, tied Touche's stern to the pier and used
the propwash to blow the weeds out of the slip and into the bayou.  I could
then pull back around the pier and back into the slip normally.

The harbormaster said he'd contacted Wildlife and Fisheries to come spray
the weeds.  Estimated 2-3 weeks.  What joy!

Here's pictures:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1qIsKMu82fMUa_zSF_QhDqLjBycwYQCx2?usp=sharing

The one titled "Weeds blown out" shows using the propwash to clear the slip.
-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

David,
Just by chance I was looking today at the website of a local professional 
photographer and discovered this photo of my boat from 2020 -- my covid 
isolating solo sailing year.  This photo shows my 135 genoa reefed much farther 
than usual, but it was a very blowy day and I was solo.  Can't see sail details 
well, but it looks like a decent shape, even furled that much.

https://toddandbradreed.com/sail-boats/brads-day-239-of-366-august-26-2020

Jeff Laman
81 C&C34
Harmony
Ludington, MI

From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 4:48 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

Thanks for all the input.  I have 110 and 145 laminate genoas.  In the past, 
with >2 crew, I used the 145 until Fall when the winds were strong, but as I 
have done more and more single-handed racing (non-spinnaker) in the last few 
years, I found the 110 was much easier to handle upwind, so I am currently 
rated for that sail (133 vs. 121 for the larger).  I agree that speed is not 
significantly compromised upwind (much to my surprise) when it blows 8-10 or 
more.  I have done quite well racing with the 110.  It is downwind where I was 
wondering if the larger sail would have advantages.  If increased speed 
downwind was significant, it might overcome the disadvantage of the sail shape 
and wind disruption of partial furling upwind.  Certainly wing on wing, I would 
think the larger sail would be significantly faster, but haven’t tested that 
yet.  When I get a chance, I will try with the full sail and then partially 
furl and see if I can detect a speed difference.  As a scientist, I know that 
data rules, so I need to get some, unless someone has done this already.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:4073BE72-4704-4EA7-8EBA-B73B833F502B]

On Sep 12, 2022, at 4:18 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

When I was still racing, I used non-furling sails. I started with a 152; then 
switched to a 135, and finally to a 110. Each switch gave me a higher PHRF 
rating. Switching to a 135 gave me six seconds more, and the 110 gave me an 
additional three seconds. Going from a 135 to a 110 cost me very little speed, 
but I pointed higher, more than making up for the slightly lower speed. More 
often than not I was first to the windward mark. Off the wind I used a 
spinnaker, so I didn't need a larger jib.

In answer to your question, I have a furling genoa with foam sandwiched between 
sailcloth layers (near the luff). I can sail with the furled genoa and still 
have good sail shape. It doesn't damage the sail, but furling on the wind in 
heavy air is difficult. I can use a winch, but I have to be careful not to get 
overrides. If you don't use a spinnaker, try using the furled genoa and 
non-furled genoa, depending on wind conditions. If you have a 110, try racing 
with that and get your PHRF rating increased. Another advantage of the smaller 
sail is it's easier for the crew to get it all the 
way.in
 much faster. Let us know how these suggestions work.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:12 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class and 
he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.  He 
said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for 
upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to 
overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does not 
have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the value/feasibility of 
this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It certainly would be easier 
than putting on my smaller sail when winds are questionable.  I worry about not 
only sail shape, but when partially furled, the furler and genoa sheet are 
fighting each other, which might not be a good thing for the furler.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Thanks for all the input.  I have 110 and 145 laminate genoas.  In the past, 
with >2 crew, I used the 145 until Fall when the winds were strong, but as I 
have done more and more single-handed racing (non-spinnaker) in the last few 
years, I found the 110 was much easier to handle upwind, so I am currently 
rated for that sail (133 vs. 121 for the larger).  I agree that speed is not 
significantly compromised upwind (much to my surprise) when it blows 8-10 or 
more.  I have done quite well racing with the 110.  It is downwind where I was 
wondering if the larger sail would have advantages.  If increased speed 
downwind was significant, it might overcome the disadvantage of the sail shape 
and wind disruption of partial furling upwind.  Certainly wing on wing, I would 
think the larger sail would be significantly faster, but haven’t tested that 
yet.  When I get a chance, I will try with the full sail and then partially 
furl and see if I can detect a speed difference.  As a scientist, I know that 
data rules, so I need to get some, unless someone has done this already.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



> On Sep 12, 2022, at 4:18 PM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> When I was still racing, I used non-furling sails. I started with a 152; then 
> switched to a 135, and finally to a 110. Each switch gave me a higher PHRF 
> rating. Switching to a 135 gave me six seconds more, and the 110 gave me an 
> additional three seconds. Going from a 135 to a 110 cost me very little 
> speed, but I pointed higher, more than making up for the slightly lower 
> speed. More often than not I was first to the windward mark. Off the wind I 
> used a spinnaker, so I didn't need a larger jib.
> 
> In answer to your question, I have a furling genoa with foam sandwiched 
> between sailcloth layers (near the luff). I can sail with the furled genoa 
> and still have good sail shape. It doesn't damage the sail, but furling on 
> the wind in heavy air is difficult. I can use a winch, but I have to be 
> careful not to get overrides. If you don't use a spinnaker, try using the 
> furled genoa and non-furled genoa, depending on wind conditions. If you have 
> a 110, try racing with that and get your PHRF rating increased. Another 
> advantage of the smaller sail is it's easier for the crew to get it all the 
> way.in  much faster. Let us know how these suggestions work.
> 
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:12 AM David Knecht via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class 
> and he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.  
> He said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for 
> upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to 
> overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does 
> not have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the 
> value/feasibility of this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It 
> certainly would be easier than putting on my smaller sail when winds are 
> questionable.  I worry about not only sail shape, but when partially furled, 
> the furler and genoa sheet are fighting each other, which might not be a good 
> thing for the furler.  Dave
>   
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List]

When I was still racing, I used non-furling sails. I started with a 152;
then switched to a 135, and finally to a 110. Each switch gave me a higher
PHRF rating. Switching to a 135 gave me six seconds more, and the 110 gave
me an additional three seconds. Going from a 135 to a 110 cost me very
little speed, but I pointed higher, more than making up for the slightly
lower speed. More often than not I was first to the windward mark. Off the
wind I used a spinnaker, so I didn't need a larger jib.

In answer to your question, I have a furling genoa with foam sandwiched
between sailcloth layers (near the luff). I can sail with the furled genoa
and still have good sail shape. It doesn't damage the sail, but furling on
the wind in heavy air is difficult. I can use a winch, but I have to be
careful not to get overrides. If you don't use a spinnaker, try using the
furled genoa and non-furled genoa, depending on wind conditions. If you
have a 110, try racing with that and get your PHRF rating increased.
Another advantage of the smaller sail is it's easier for the crew to get it
all the way.in much faster. Let us know how these suggestions work.

Alan Bergen
35 Mk III Thirsty
Rose City YC
Portland, OR



On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:12 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF
> class and he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in
> heavier air.  He said he had recently started partially roller furling his
> large genoa for upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was
> strong enough to overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my
> larger genoa does not have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on
> the value/feasibility of this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?
> It certainly would be easier than putting on my smaller sail when winds are
> questionable.  I worry about not only sail shape, but when partially
> furled, the furler and genoa sheet are fighting each other, which might not
> be a good thing for the furler.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>

Stus-List Re: anyone try this chafe guard?

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

I need 3 chafe guards, what I did was measure the radius it was going on
and bought some SS tubing to fit that radius.
Then cut it longitudinally in quarters and cleaned  the edges up, & buffed
it out. Going to stick it on with 5200,  Just another thought. I think for
the anchor, I will glue a piece of urethane where the chain rubs. Chain can
make a mess of SS.

Bill Coleman
Entrada, Erie PA

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 12:11 PM Joe Della Barba via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> https://www.nowearguard.com/
>
>
>
> It sure looks nice. I am tempted to use it on the bow where the anchor
> tends to hit the boat.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> Coquina C&C 35 MK I
>
> Kent Island MD USA
>
>
>

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Furl the genny from 150% to say 130% on the very last bit of the downwind
leg just before the rounding. Put dark tape about 6 inches long vertically
upward from the foot that corresponds to 130% or 110% headsail when furled.
I found there was no real benefit to moving the roller cars to adjust the
sheet lead points.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 11:12 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF
> class and he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in
> heavier air.  He said he had recently started partially roller furling his
> large genoa for upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was
> strong enough to overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my
> larger genoa does not have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on
> the value/feasibility of this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?
> It certainly would be easier than putting on my smaller sail when winds are
> questionable.  I worry about not only sail shape, but when partially
> furled, the furler and genoa sheet are fighting each other, which might not
> be a good thing for the furler.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Stus-List Re: Glow plugs

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

As a long time VW diesel owner, I've changed my share of glow plugs on both
IDI and TDI engines. They will generally last 10 years or more if not run
too long, The older (80s vintage) 1.6 IDI diesel on Callisto has a manual
button for the glow plugs, and I will try to avoid using more than 5
seconds, which is enough down to 0C, as they glow red hot within 1 second
when working correctly. A good test of function is the current draw, each
plug should pull about 12A (in my case, yours may differ). Once you know
the current draw you can quickly check if they are all good if you have a
good ammeter or battery monitor on board (I have a Renogy which uses a
shunt).
In the case of VW glow plugs, continuous operation more than about 10-15
seconds can quickly shorten their life. I lost all of them a few years ago
when the factory timer relay stuck on, so now use a separate 80A relay and
a manual button, as changing them is a serious PITA - two are behind the
injection pump.
A quick test of a plug is to use a spare battery, or any good source of 12V
power up to 15-20A. When power is applied they should be red hot within a
second or so, if not, replace. They will usually fail open, but sometimes
will fail with a higher resistance and only get warm. Use a pair of pliers
and gloves for safety when handling hot plugs, and of course use fused
conductors for testing. I keep old plugs that have tested ok for spares,
which came in handy when I had to change them all while out at anchor.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 7:48 AM Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> For what it's worth -- another data point on glow plugs.  I had a 2003 VW
> Golf TDI 1.9L (Turbo Direct Injection) and drove it 200k miles.  The glow
> plugs had to be replaced at 80k and 160k.  A good reading was 1 ohm.  The
> plugs all went together both times (probably) and the car was very
> difficult to start.  But, the starting issue became obvious only when PA
> temperatures dropped, so plugs might have gone one at a time over summer.
> With 4 cylinders, all you need is one to start to fire to get the engine
> going.
>
> Jeff Laman
> 81 C&C34
> --
> *From:* David Knecht via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2022 10:32 AM
> *To:* CnC CnC discussion list 
> *Cc:* David Knecht 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Glow plugs
>
> I asked the list a while back about glow plugs (Universal M4-30) and
> whether they should be a periodic replacement item.  They should have been
> testable in place, but I had trouble getting reliable readings from the
> meter.  So I decided since they were not that expensive ($80 for 4) to just
> go ahead and replace them so I had a sense of the state of 30 year old glow
> plugs.  It turned out to be a pretty easy job as engine jobs go (about an
> hour).  The only hard part was finding a tool that would grab the circular
> knurled nuts on top that held the wires on (Vice grips worked).   The plugs
> themselves came out without too much trouble with a standard socket
> wrench.  The old plugs look well used, but not worn out and tested as good
> with a Volt-ohm meter (about 1 ohms).  The new ones made no difference to
> starting the engine that I could detect.  It still takes about 15-30
> seconds of glow plug (as the manual recommends) before it starts.  So from
> my experience, this is not an engine part that needs much concern or
> frequent replacement.  Also, since the plus sides are all wired together,
> my assumption is that if one failed (high resistance), the others would
> continue to work fine.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[John McCrea via CnC-List]

David,

 

On my Doyle Genoa I have three blue dots at the foot to allow me to reef it 
down to smaller sizes. It was designed that way by the sailmaker and works 
quite well. I am adding adjustable genoa cars from Garhauer so can move the 
genoa leads. 

 

John McCrea

Talisman

1979 36-1

Mystic, CT

 

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 10:12 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing

 

I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class and 
he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.  He 
said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for 
upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to 
overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does not 
have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the value/feasibility of 
this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It certainly would be easier 
than putting on my smaller sail when winds are questionable.  I worry about not 
only sail shape, but when partially furled, the furler and genoa sheet are 
fighting each other, which might not be a good thing for the furler.  Dave

  

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT




 

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

I would move the leads forward to help sail shape.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 12, 2022, at 11:11 AM, Matthew via CnC-List  
wrote:


Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike ; Jeffrey A. Laman 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

David,
Reefing the genoa on a furler is routine where I sail and race.  I reef my main 
first, then reef my 135 second.  Typically when wind is about 15mph+ I keep 
about 5 winds on the furler, making the headsail about 110.  My luff is foam 
and will keep the sail shape decent up to about the 5 winds.  Another boat has 
a UK sail with very large foam tubes that maintains shape pretty well when 
furled.  After 5 winds, the shape gets bad fast on my foam luffed genoa.  The 
genoa needs to be capable of being reefed, but I don't know of anyone I sail 
with who has a head sail that isn't made to handle reefing.  Have a sail maker 
look at it if you aren't sure.  As for the furler line "fighting" the sheets, 
not really.  Lock the furler in and done.  Sheet the headsail as you normally 
would.  Challenge might be moving your cars forward, then back again as you 
furl and unfurl.  Also, unfurling is easy.  Furling back on is not.  But, 
typically our races are to windward start, then a reach, so start with furled, 
then let it go around the mark and finish the race.  Not ideal, but it works 
better than being overpowered.  A purist in the fleet scoffs at furlers and 
says, "You never have the right sail with a furler." Yea, ok, but I sail solo a 
lot too, so that's where I am.

Jeff Laman
81 C&C34
Harmony
Ludington, MI

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 10:25 AM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Hoyt, Mike mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing


Hi David



First I find it unusual to hear of a J27 with a furling genoa.  We had a J27 
that came that way and it was the only one I knew of.  Our furling genoa was 
awful to use when racing anyway so we would  ignore the furler and tack our 
racing sails to the deck below the drum.  Eventually sold the luff foil, 
furling system and the furling genoa and replaced with a tuff luff



J27 upwind if too windy for 150 should use a blade as it is much faster.  
Downwind most 27s fly a spinnaker anyway.



On our 33 we will sometimes be overpowered upwind flying our non furling 140 or 
155 genoas for the added boost downwind if racing non spin.  If it is too windy 
for our 140 we drop to our 103%% head sail.



Your genoa would have to be designed and built to sail partially furled for it 
to have any sort of performance up wind.  I know some have foam in the luff 
area for this.  Regardless I would think the loss of upwind performance would 
be a pretty nasty price to pay for more horsepower down wind …



Those are my thoughts



Regards



Mike Hoyt

Persistence

Halifax, NS



From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: September 12, 2022 11:12 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing



I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class and 
he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.  He 
said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for 
upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to 
overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does not 
have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the value/feasibility of 
this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It certainly would be easier 
than putting on my smaller sail when winds are questionable.  I worry about not 
only sail shape, but when partially furled, the furler and genoa sheet are 
fighting each other, which might not be a good thing for the furler.  Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT

[image001.png]

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[Matthew via CnC-List]

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

 

From: Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 10:40 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike ; Jeffrey A. Laman

Subject: Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

 

David, 

Reefing the genoa on a furler is routine where I sail and race.  I reef my
main first, then reef my 135 second.  Typically when wind is about 15mph+ I
keep about 5 winds on the furler, making the headsail about 110.  My luff is
foam and will keep the sail shape decent up to about the 5 winds.  Another
boat has a UK sail with very large foam tubes that maintains shape pretty
well when furled.  After 5 winds, the shape gets bad fast on my foam luffed
genoa.  The genoa needs to be capable of being reefed, but I don't know of
anyone I sail with who has a head sail that isn't made to handle reefing.
Have a sail maker look at it if you aren't sure.  As for the furler line
"fighting" the sheets, not really.  Lock the furler in and done.  Sheet the
headsail as you normally would.  Challenge might be moving your cars
forward, then back again as you furl and unfurl.  Also, unfurling is easy.
Furling back on is not.  But, typically our races are to windward start,
then a reach, so start with furled, then let it go around the mark and
finish the race.  Not ideal, but it works better than being overpowered.  A
purist in the fleet scoffs at furlers and says, "You never have the right
sail with a furler." Yea, ok, but I sail solo a lot too, so that's where I
am.

 

Jeff Laman

81 C&C34

Harmony

Ludington, MI

  _  

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 10:25 AM
To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: Hoyt, Mike mailto:mike.h...@impgroup.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing 

 

Hi David

 

First I find it unusual to hear of a J27 with a furling genoa.  We had a J27
that came that way and it was the only one I knew of.  Our furling genoa was
awful to use when racing anyway so we would  ignore the furler and tack our
racing sails to the deck below the drum.  Eventually sold the luff foil,
furling system and the furling genoa and replaced with a tuff luff

 

J27 upwind if too windy for 150 should use a blade as it is much faster.
Downwind most 27s fly a spinnaker anyway.

 

On our 33 we will sometimes be overpowered upwind flying our non furling 140
or 155 genoas for the added boost downwind if racing non spin.  If it is too
windy for our 140 we drop to our 103%% head sail. 

 

Your genoa would have to be designed and built to sail partially furled for
it to have any sort of performance up wind.  I know some have foam in the
luff area for this.  Regardless I would think the loss of upwind performance
would be a pretty nasty price to pay for more horsepower down wind .

 

Those are my thoughts

 

Regards

 

Mike Hoyt

Persistence

Halifax, NS

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 
Sent: September 12, 2022 11:12 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing

 

I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class
and he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.
He said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for
upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to
overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does
not have "reef points" .  What are the groups thoughts on the
value/feasibility of this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It
certainly would be easier than putting on my smaller sail when winds are
questionable.  I worry about not only sail shape, but when partially furled,
the furler and genoa sheet are fighting each other, which might not be a
good thing for the furler.  Dave

  

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT




 

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

The sail and the furler should be fine (as someone already said, a furling 
genoa normally is designed to be partially furled).

The shape of the sail might be an issue. Try it furled a bit and check for the 
shape. If it is baggy in the middle, you know that it is not going to work 
well. Well designed sail should maintain, “generally”, its shape, even when 
partially furled.

I don’t race, but I use the partially furled genoa all the time.

One of the performance issues is that a furled sail on the leading edge fouls 
the air steaming along the sail. For normal sailing, it is not a big deal; for 
racing, it might be (e.g., you won’t be able to point as high).

Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: David Knecht via CnC-List
Sent: September 12, 2022 11:12
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Cc: David Knecht
Subject: Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing

I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class and 
he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.  He 
said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for 
upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to 
overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does not 
have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the value/feasibility of 
this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It certainly would be easier 
than putting on my smaller sail when winds are questionable.  I worry about not 
only sail shape, but when partially furled, the furler and genoa sheet are 
fighting each other, which might not be a good thing for the furler.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D8C69E.EACAC7C0]

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[Matthew via CnC-List]

In my case, the genoa doesn’t look right or perform well partially unfurled.  
In addition, the forestay bends in a way I don’t like -- the force does not 
appear to be evenly distributed.

 

Matt Wolford

C&C 42 Custom 

 

From: David Knecht via CnC-List  
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 10:12 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing

 

I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class and 
he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.  He 
said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for 
upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to 
overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does not 
have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the value/feasibility of 
this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It certainly would be easier 
than putting on my smaller sail when winds are questionable.  I worry about not 
only sail shape, but when partially furled, the furler and genoa sheet are 
fighting each other, which might not be a good thing for the furler.  Dave

  

S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT




 

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

We raced upwind with a foot or so of genoa furled several times.  The furler 
line once secured, will be fine.  FWIW, I had mine secured to a camcleat 
without trouble but Harken prefers it to be cleated and provide a 4" cleat with 
their furler kits.

Had to look up the J27 on Sailboatdata.  Comparing your 12000# C&C 34+ to a 
3800# J27 may not produce the same results.  Your boats needs much more sail 
power to get it moving as it weighes three times the J-boat.  But I would 
suggest you try the technique and don't overthink it so much.  See how the sail 
shape changes by different amounts of furling.  Our racing sail is a 140% #2 
and still looked good, partially rolled.  This made tacking quicker and easier 
as the sheets and LP are shorter.  One drawback was losing the telltales but in 
higher winds, you don't really need them anyway.  My two cents.

Chuck S









> On 09/12/2022 10:12 AM David Knecht via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF 
> class and he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier 
> air.  He said he had recently started partially roller furling his large 
> genoa for upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong 
> enough to overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger 
> genoa does not have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the 
> value/feasibility of this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It 
> certainly would be easier than putting on my smaller sail when winds are 
> questionable.  I worry about not only sail shape, but when partially furled, 
> the furler and genoa sheet are fighting each other, which might not be a good 
> thing for the furler.  Dave
>   
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[Wyatt via CnC-List]

Not good for the sail...reinforcement is around the edges (leech/luff/foot)
not in the middle.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:30 AM Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> FWIW My first move is to reef the main upwind, even with a foam luff
> gennie.
>
> Joel
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:25 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi David
>>
>>
>>
>> First I find it unusual to hear of a J27 with a furling genoa.  We had a
>> J27 that came that way and it was the only one I knew of.  Our furling
>> genoa was awful to use when racing anyway so we would  ignore the furler
>> and tack our racing sails to the deck below the drum.  Eventually sold the
>> luff foil, furling system and the furling genoa and replaced with a tuff
>> luff
>>
>>
>>
>> J27 upwind if too windy for 150 should use a blade as it is much faster.
>> Downwind most 27s fly a spinnaker anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> On our 33 we will sometimes be overpowered upwind flying our non furling
>> 140 or 155 genoas for the added boost downwind if racing non spin.  If it
>> is too windy for our 140 we drop to our 103%% head sail.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your genoa would have to be designed and built to sail partially furled
>> for it to have any sort of performance up wind.  I know some have foam in
>> the luff area for this.  Regardless I would think the loss of upwind
>> performance would be a pretty nasty price to pay for more horsepower down
>> wind …
>>
>>
>>
>> Those are my thoughts
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Hoyt
>>
>> Persistence
>>
>> Halifax, NS
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* David Knecht via CnC-List 
>> *Sent:* September 12, 2022 11:12 AM
>> *To:* CnC CnC discussion list 
>> *Cc:* David Knecht 
>> *Subject:* Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing
>>
>>
>>
>> I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF
>> class and he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in
>> heavier air.  He said he had recently started partially roller furling his
>> large genoa for upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was
>> strong enough to overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my
>> larger genoa does not have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on
>> the value/feasibility of this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?
>> It certainly would be easier than putting on my smaller sail when winds are
>> questionable.  I worry about not only sail shape, but when partially
>> furled, the furler and genoa sheet are fighting each other, which might not
>> be a good thing for the furler.  Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> S/V Aries
>>
>> 1990 C&C 34+
>>
>> New London, CT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joel
>
>

Stus-List Re: Glow plugs

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

For what it's worth -- another data point on glow plugs.  I had a 2003 VW Golf 
TDI 1.9L (Turbo Direct Injection) and drove it 200k miles.  The glow plugs had 
to be replaced at 80k and 160k.  A good reading was 1 ohm.  The plugs all went 
together both times (probably) and the car was very difficult to start.  But, 
the starting issue became obvious only when PA temperatures dropped, so plugs 
might have gone one at a time over summer.  With 4 cylinders, all you need is 
one to start to fire to get the engine going.

Jeff Laman
81 C&C34

From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 10:32 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Glow plugs

I asked the list a while back about glow plugs (Universal M4-30) and whether 
they should be a periodic replacement item.  They should have been testable in 
place, but I had trouble getting reliable readings from the meter.  So I 
decided since they were not that expensive ($80 for 4) to just go ahead and 
replace them so I had a sense of the state of 30 year old glow plugs.  It 
turned out to be a pretty easy job as engine jobs go (about an hour).  The only 
hard part was finding a tool that would grab the circular knurled nuts on top 
that held the wires on (Vice grips worked).   The plugs themselves came out 
without too much trouble with a standard socket wrench.  The old plugs look 
well used, but not worn out and tested as good with a Volt-ohm meter (about 1 
ohms).  The new ones made no difference to starting the engine that I could 
detect.  It still takes about 15-30 seconds of glow plug (as the manual 
recommends) before it starts.  So from my experience, this is not an engine 
part that needs much concern or frequent replacement.  Also, since the plus 
sides are all wired together, my assumption is that if one failed (high 
resistance), the others would continue to work fine.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:4073BE72-4704-4EA7-8EBA-B73B833F502B]

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[Jeffrey A. Laman via CnC-List]

David,
Reefing the genoa on a furler is routine where I sail and race.  I reef my main 
first, then reef my 135 second.  Typically when wind is about 15mph+ I keep 
about 5 winds on the furler, making the headsail about 110.  My luff is foam 
and will keep the sail shape decent up to about the 5 winds.  Another boat has 
a UK sail with very large foam tubes that maintains shape pretty well when 
furled.  After 5 winds, the shape gets bad fast on my foam luffed genoa.  The 
genoa needs to be capable of being reefed, but I don't know of anyone I sail 
with who has a head sail that isn't made to handle reefing.  Have a sail maker 
look at it if you aren't sure.  As for the furler line "fighting" the sheets, 
not really.  Lock the furler in and done.  Sheet the headsail as you normally 
would.  Challenge might be moving your cars forward, then back again as you 
furl and unfurl.  Also, unfurling is easy.  Furling back on is not.  But, 
typically our races are to windward start, then a reach, so start with furled, 
then let it go around the mark and finish the race.  Not ideal, but it works 
better than being overpowered.  A purist in the fleet scoffs at furlers and 
says, "You never have the right sail with a furler." Yea, ok, but I sail solo a 
lot too, so that's where I am.

Jeff Laman
81 C&C34
Harmony
Ludington, MI

From: Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2022 10:25 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing


Hi David



First I find it unusual to hear of a J27 with a furling genoa.  We had a J27 
that came that way and it was the only one I knew of.  Our furling genoa was 
awful to use when racing anyway so we would  ignore the furler and tack our 
racing sails to the deck below the drum.  Eventually sold the luff foil, 
furling system and the furling genoa and replaced with a tuff luff



J27 upwind if too windy for 150 should use a blade as it is much faster.  
Downwind most 27s fly a spinnaker anyway.



On our 33 we will sometimes be overpowered upwind flying our non furling 140 or 
155 genoas for the added boost downwind if racing non spin.  If it is too windy 
for our 140 we drop to our 103%% head sail.



Your genoa would have to be designed and built to sail partially furled for it 
to have any sort of performance up wind.  I know some have foam in the luff 
area for this.  Regardless I would think the loss of upwind performance would 
be a pretty nasty price to pay for more horsepower down wind …



Those are my thoughts



Regards



Mike Hoyt

Persistence

Halifax, NS



From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: September 12, 2022 11:12 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing



I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class and 
he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.  He 
said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for 
upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to 
overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does not 
have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the value/feasibility of 
this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It certainly would be easier 
than putting on my smaller sail when winds are questionable.  I worry about not 
only sail shape, but when partially furled, the furler and genoa sheet are 
fighting each other, which might not be a good thing for the furler.  Dave



S/V Aries

1990 C&C 34+

New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D8C69A.4F2D4620]

Stus-List Glow plugs

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I asked the list a while back about glow plugs (Universal M4-30) and whether 
they should be a periodic replacement item.  They should have been testable in 
place, but I had trouble getting reliable readings from the meter.  So I 
decided since they were not that expensive ($80 for 4) to just go ahead and 
replace them so I had a sense of the state of 30 year old glow plugs.  It 
turned out to be a pretty easy job as engine jobs go (about an hour).  The only 
hard part was finding a tool that would grab the circular knurled nuts on top 
that held the wires on (Vice grips worked).   The plugs themselves came out 
without too much trouble with a standard socket wrench.  The old plugs look 
well used, but not worn out and tested as good with a Volt-ohm meter (about 1 
ohms).  The new ones made no difference to starting the engine that I could 
detect.  It still takes about 15-30 seconds of glow plug (as the manual 
recommends) before it starts.  So from my experience, this is not an engine 
part that needs much concern or frequent replacement.  Also, since the plus 
sides are all wired together, my assumption is that if one failed (high 
resistance), the others would continue to work fine.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

FWIW My first move is to reef the main upwind, even with a foam luff gennie.

Joel

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:25 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi David
>
>
>
> First I find it unusual to hear of a J27 with a furling genoa.  We had a
> J27 that came that way and it was the only one I knew of.  Our furling
> genoa was awful to use when racing anyway so we would  ignore the furler
> and tack our racing sails to the deck below the drum.  Eventually sold the
> luff foil, furling system and the furling genoa and replaced with a tuff
> luff
>
>
>
> J27 upwind if too windy for 150 should use a blade as it is much faster.
> Downwind most 27s fly a spinnaker anyway.
>
>
>
> On our 33 we will sometimes be overpowered upwind flying our non furling
> 140 or 155 genoas for the added boost downwind if racing non spin.  If it
> is too windy for our 140 we drop to our 103%% head sail.
>
>
>
> Your genoa would have to be designed and built to sail partially furled
> for it to have any sort of performance up wind.  I know some have foam in
> the luff area for this.  Regardless I would think the loss of upwind
> performance would be a pretty nasty price to pay for more horsepower down
> wind …
>
>
>
> Those are my thoughts
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Mike Hoyt
>
> Persistence
>
> Halifax, NS
>
>
>
> *From:* David Knecht via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* September 12, 2022 11:12 AM
> *To:* CnC CnC discussion list 
> *Cc:* David Knecht 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing
>
>
>
> I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF
> class and he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in
> heavier air.  He said he had recently started partially roller furling his
> large genoa for upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was
> strong enough to overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my
> larger genoa does not have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on
> the value/feasibility of this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?
> It certainly would be easier than putting on my smaller sail when winds are
> questionable.  I worry about not only sail shape, but when partially
> furled, the furler and genoa sheet are fighting each other, which might not
> be a good thing for the furler.  Dave
>
>
>
> S/V Aries
>
> 1990 C&C 34+
>
> New London, CT
>
>
>
>


-- 
Joel

Stus-List Re: Partially furling the genoa when racing

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi David

First I find it unusual to hear of a J27 with a furling genoa.  We had a J27 
that came that way and it was the only one I knew of.  Our furling genoa was 
awful to use when racing anyway so we would  ignore the furler and tack our 
racing sails to the deck below the drum.  Eventually sold the luff foil, 
furling system and the furling genoa and replaced with a tuff luff

J27 upwind if too windy for 150 should use a blade as it is much faster.  
Downwind most 27s fly a spinnaker anyway.

On our 33 we will sometimes be overpowered upwind flying our non furling 140 or 
155 genoas for the added boost downwind if racing non spin.  If it is too windy 
for our 140 we drop to our 103%% head sail.

Your genoa would have to be designed and built to sail partially furled for it 
to have any sort of performance up wind.  I know some have foam in the luff 
area for this.  Regardless I would think the loss of upwind performance would 
be a pretty nasty price to pay for more horsepower down wind …

Those are my thoughts

Regards

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax, NS

From: David Knecht via CnC-List 
Sent: September 12, 2022 11:12 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing

I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class and 
he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.  He 
said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for 
upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to 
overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does not 
have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the value/feasibility of 
this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It certainly would be easier 
than putting on my smaller sail when winds are questionable.  I worry about not 
only sail shape, but when partially furled, the furler and genoa sheet are 
fighting each other, which might not be a good thing for the furler.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D8C69A.4F2D4620]

Stus-List Partially furling the genoa when racing

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I was talking to the skipper of a J27 who nearly always wins our PHRF class and 
he was telling me that while he wins a lot, he struggles in heavier air.  He 
said he had recently started partially roller furling his large genoa for 
upwind legs and then unfurling downwind when the wind was strong enough to 
overpower him.  I have never considered doing that and my larger genoa does not 
have “reef points” .  What are the groups thoughts on the value/feasibility of 
this?   Any reason it would be bad for the sail?  It certainly would be easier 
than putting on my smaller sail when winds are questionable.  I worry about not 
only sail shape, but when partially furled, the furler and genoa sheet are 
fighting each other, which might not be a good thing for the furler.  Dave
  
S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT