Stus-List Re: Tuning questions - now Loos gauge accuracy

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Looser than what?

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 1:17 PM John Irvin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Some interesting thoughts here. Looser tuning tends to be faster, in my
> opinion (C&C 27-III)
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows
>
>
>
> *From: *Dennis C. via CnC-List 
> *Sent: *October 20, 2022 9:45 AM
> *To: *Stus-List 
> *Cc: *Dennis C. 
> *Subject: *Stus-List Tuning questions - now Loos gauge accuracy
>
>
>
> Hmmm.  Didn't think Loos gauges were terribly inaccurate.  Now I question
> them.  Found this article:
>
>
>
> https://l-36.com/loosaccuracy.php
> 
>
>
>
> Guess a good rule is to use the same gauge only to return your rig to
> settings based on your experience on the water.
>
>
>
> I might borrow a neighbor's gauge and compare it to mine.
>
> --
>
> Dennis C.
>
> Touche' 35-1 #83
>
> Mandeville, LA
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 7:55 PM Doug Robinson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> YO;
>
> It has been our observation that the Loos gauge readings are relative
> and not specific, our gauge will not match yours.  But if you  use my
> gauge (or yours) and measure my rig you can use the same gauge to return
> to your boat and match settings.   We could be wrong in this.
>
> One of those races where we interchange crew members, Chris Doyle from
> Skip Doyle's boat Rocking Chair was delegated to our boat...first thing
> he did was to loosen the rig and we did well. Wish we had kept those
> settings, I think we sail to tight.
>
> Doug Robinson
>
>
>
>
>
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Stus-List Re: Engine panel button/switch replacement

[Carl Freeman via CnC-List]

 Occasionally you will get a push button that will not cooperate.  Worse case 
scenario grab the back of the switch with water pump pliers or vice grips and 
drill out the center of the switch. Start a little undersized as it is likely 
that the switch will break off.
The push button will probably be able to be ripped off the switch with pliers 
allowing you access to the center.
Good luck.
COMP1979 C&C 34Groton, CT

On Thursday, October 20, 2022 at 11:46:20 AM EDT, David Knecht via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 I took the boot off and tried to loosen the collar on the outside, but no 
luck.  That is why I am not sure there isn't some hidden trick.  Sprayed it 
with PB Blaster and will try again next time I am on the boat.  It is possible 
that the PO put a different push button in, but I can't find anything like that 
one in the Cole Hersey catalog.  The other push button and the new ones all 
have boots that pop on. This one the boot seems more securely attached, which 
might be more weather resistant.  I think the outside collar actually trapped 
the rubber boot.  Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT


On Oct 19, 2022, at 12:03 PM, Carl Freeman via CnC-List  
wrote:
 Hi David,
That back up nut on the backside will loosen it up if you can get at it. As an 
alternative you can cut the rubber boot off and grab the outside metal with a 
pair of vice grips or something similar. Sounds like it is no good anyway so 
tearing it up shouldn't be a problem.
Regarding different switches, one may have been replaced in the past or have a 
different amperage rating than the other.
Best,
Carl
On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 11:30:39 AM EDT, David Knecht via 
CnC-List  wrote:  
 
 I spent some time yesterday replacing the original engine panel (Universal 
M4-30) buttons/switches and ran into a problem.  I had bought a new Cole Hersee 
key switch and two push button switches for the replacement.  I was able to 
replace the key switch and the glow plug button easily (only a small amount of 
blood and pain).  However, I realized that the original push button start 
switch is different from the glow plug button. The glow plug button has a 
rubber hood that can be easily removed and a knurled round collar nut on the 
outside and another nut on the inside to secure it.  The start button has a 
rubber hood that appears not designed to be removed and a rounded collar piece 
with no knurling that secures it on the outside.  I have been unable to remove 
that collar and it is not clear if it is threaded. The inside nut is different 
as well, and it is so tightly spaced to the body that I have not found a tool 
thin enough to get to it and loosen it.  Anyone have suggestions on:
1.  Why these two push button switches are different when the presumably 
perform the same type of function?2. A flat tool that can get to a narrow space 
for a large nut (something like a bicycle pedal wrench but adjustable)?
3.  How that start push button switch is supposed to come apart?
THanks- Dave
S/V Aries1990 C&C 34+New London, CT

  

  

Stus-List Re: Tuning questions - now Loos gauge accuracy

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

Some interesting thoughts here. Looser tuning tends to be faster, in my opinion 
(C&C 27-III)

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List
Sent: October 20, 2022 9:45 AM
To: Stus-List
Cc: Dennis C.
Subject: Stus-List Tuning questions - now Loos gauge accuracy

Hmmm.  Didn't think Loos gauges were terribly inaccurate.  Now I question them. 
 Found this article:

https://l-36.com/loosaccuracy.php

Guess a good rule is to use the same gauge only to return your rig to settings 
based on your experience on the water.

I might borrow a neighbor's gauge and compare it to mine.
--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 7:55 PM Doug Robinson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
YO;

It has been our observation that the Loos gauge readings are relative
and not specific, our gauge will not match yours.  But if you  use my
gauge (or yours) and measure my rig you can use the same gauge to return
to your boat and match settings.   We could be wrong in this.

One of those races where we interchange crew members, Chris Doyle from
Skip Doyle's boat Rocking Chair was delegated to our boat...first thing
he did was to loosen the rig and we did well. Wish we had kept those
settings, I think we sail to tight.

Doug Robinson

Stus-List Re: Engine panel button/switch replacement

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I took the boot off and tried to loosen the collar on the outside, but no luck. 
 That is why I am not sure there isn't some hidden trick.  Sprayed it with PB 
Blaster and will try again next time I am on the boat.  It is possible that the 
PO put a different push button in, but I can't find anything like that one in 
the Cole Hersey catalog.  The other push button and the new ones all have boots 
that pop on. This one the boot seems more securely attached, which might be 
more weather resistant.  I think the outside collar actually trapped the rubber 
boot.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



> On Oct 19, 2022, at 12:03 PM, Carl Freeman via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> That back up nut on the backside will loosen it up if you can get at it. As 
> an alternative you can cut the rubber boot off and grab the outside metal 
> with a pair of vice grips or something similar. Sounds like it is no good 
> anyway so tearing it up shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> Regarding different switches, one may have been replaced in the past or have 
> a different amperage rating than the other.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Carl
> 
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 11:30:39 AM EDT, David Knecht via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I spent some time yesterday replacing the original engine panel (Universal 
> M4-30) buttons/switches and ran into a problem.  I had bought a new Cole 
> Hersee key switch and two push button switches for the replacement.  I was 
> able to replace the key switch and the glow plug button easily (only a small 
> amount of blood and pain).  However, I realized that the original push button 
> start switch is different from the glow plug button. The glow plug button has 
> a rubber hood that can be easily removed and a knurled round collar nut on 
> the outside and another nut on the inside to secure it.  The start button has 
> a rubber hood that appears not designed to be removed and a rounded collar 
> piece with no knurling that secures it on the outside.  I have been unable to 
> remove that collar and it is not clear if it is threaded. The inside nut is 
> different as well, and it is so tightly spaced to the body that I have not 
> found a tool thin enough to get to it and loosen it.  Anyone have suggestions 
> on:
> 
> 1.  Why these two push button switches are different when the presumably 
> perform the same type of function?
> 2. A flat tool that can get to a narrow space for a large nut (something like 
> a bicycle pedal wrench but adjustable)?
> 3.  How that start push button switch is supposed to come apart?
> 
> THanks- Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> 

Stus-List Re: C&C 29 Mk1 tuning questions

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I followed a tuning guide that I think I got from the C&C photo album site.  I 
have rod rigging and a Loos gauge (used on Ebay).  Make sure vang and backstay 
are loose.  Set rake (about 12" from gooseneck) with forestay/furler, tune 
uppers, then mid then lowers.  I have now gone to Scar pins (wrap pins) that I 
got on Ebay instead of cotter pins/rings for the turnbuckles.  Makes adjusting 
much easier.  I have a fishing scale that I use to measure side to side 
distance with the main halyard to measure centering of the top of the mast that 
works reasonably well.  

Lowers: 0.25" #10 rod 12% of breaking-  35-40 Loos
Intermediates: #6 rod 0.198" 10% of breaking 15-20 Loos
Uppers: 0.25" #10 rod, 10% breaking= 35-40 Loos
 There is slack in the leeward shrouds upwind.
Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT



> On Oct 15, 2022, at 6:03 PM, Karl Kuzis via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> We are new owners of Hull#45 "Firefly" and I am interested in hearing if any 
> one has a set of starting rig tension measurements you could share.
> 
> Loos Gauge numbers would be great.
> 
> Just replaced the headstay due to wire damage I found under the foil. (Wanted 
> to avoid burying bad wire under the new roller furling). Now working on 
> retuning the rig.
> 
> All insight and experience sharing welcome!
> 
> Respectfully, Karl 
> 
> Karl & Doris Kuzis 
> C&C 29 Mk1 "Firefly"

Stus-List Re: Tuning questions - now Loos gauge accuracy

[Matt Wolford via CnC-List]

FWIW, I used a Loos gauge for my rod rigging this past spring to equalize the 
tension of my upper and lower shrouds.  While sailing in a breeze, I noted that 
the lower shrouds were loose compared to the upper shrouds.  Go figure.

 

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List  
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2022 9:44 AM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Stus-List Tuning questions - now Loos gauge accuracy

 

Hmmm.  Didn't think Loos gauges were terribly inaccurate.  Now I question them. 
 Found this article:

 

https://l-36.com/loosaccuracy.php

 

Guess a good rule is to use the same gauge only to return your rig to settings 
based on your experience on the water.

 

I might borrow a neighbor's gauge and compare it to mine.

--

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

Stus-List Re: Tuning questions - now Loos gauge accuracy

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

For wire rigging I tested my Loos gauge compared to the gauge on my Navtec
hydraulic backstay for tension in the backstay. The correlation was very
close and indiscernible given the small but calibrated gauge on the Navtec
unit.

On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 10:44 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hmmm.  Didn't think Loos gauges were terribly inaccurate.  Now I question
> them.  Found this article:
>
> https://l-36.com/loosaccuracy.php
>
> Guess a good rule is to use the same gauge only to return your rig to
> settings based on your experience on the water.
>
> I might borrow a neighbor's gauge and compare it to mine.
> --
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 7:55 PM Doug Robinson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> YO;
>>
>> It has been our observation that the Loos gauge readings are relative
>> and not specific, our gauge will not match yours.  But if you  use my
>> gauge (or yours) and measure my rig you can use the same gauge to return
>> to your boat and match settings.   We could be wrong in this.
>>
>> One of those races where we interchange crew members, Chris Doyle from
>> Skip Doyle's boat Rocking Chair was delegated to our boat...first thing
>> he did was to loosen the rig and we did well. Wish we had kept those
>> settings, I think we sail to tight.
>>
>> Doug Robinson
>>
>>
> --
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Stus-List Tuning questions - now Loos gauge accuracy

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Hmmm.  Didn't think Loos gauges were terribly inaccurate.  Now I question
them.  Found this article:

https://l-36.com/loosaccuracy.php

Guess a good rule is to use the same gauge only to return your rig to
settings based on your experience on the water.

I might borrow a neighbor's gauge and compare it to mine.
--
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 7:55 PM Doug Robinson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> YO;
>
> It has been our observation that the Loos gauge readings are relative
> and not specific, our gauge will not match yours.  But if you  use my
> gauge (or yours) and measure my rig you can use the same gauge to return
> to your boat and match settings.   We could be wrong in this.
>
> One of those races where we interchange crew members, Chris Doyle from
> Skip Doyle's boat Rocking Chair was delegated to our boat...first thing
> he did was to loosen the rig and we did well. Wish we had kept those
> settings, I think we sail to tight.
>
> Doug Robinson
>
>