Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I agree that the threads on the aluminum plate are likely the weak link, but 
the plate is pretty thick (0.4”) so lots of threads.  Also, that winch is used 
exclusively to raise and lower the main, so not a lot of stress on it since 
once the main is up, the clutch takes over.  It made it so I could easily raise 
the main solo from the cockpit with my eWincher while manipulating the boom to 
prevent the sail hanging up on the lazy jacks.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Mar 23, 2024, at 3:14 PM, Matthew Wolford via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> That is a cool approach, but if I understand how it was done, the weak link 
> IMHO is that tapped aluminum is holding the new winch.
>  
> From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List  > 
> Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2024 2:42 PM
> To: Stus-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>>
> Subject: Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?
>  
> Hey David,  
> That's cool.  You made an adapter plate, so you didn't change the holes 
> through the deck.  That's a cool trick. 
>   
> Thanks, 
> Chuck S 
>   
>   
>> On 03/23/2024 2:33 PM EDT David Knecht via CnC-List > > wrote: 
>>   
>>   
>> When I swapped an old non-self tailing winch with a new Harken winch, I 
>> decided I wanted to re-use the holes from the previous winch.  So I bought a 
>> circular aluminum plate the size of the winch base, drilled holes through it 
>> in the pattern of the original winch, then drilled and tapped holes to match 
>> the new winch base to secure the new winch base.  I am happy with the 
>> result.  Dave 
>>  
>> S/V Aries 
>> 1990 C 34+ 
>> New London, CT 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 22, 2024, at 8:23 PM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List 
>>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: 
>>>  
>>> I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on 
>>> my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. 
>>> Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to 
>>> fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or 
>>> plywood backing plates. 
>>> 
>>> Any other hints and tips? 
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Dean 
>>> BarraWind 
>>> 1980 C 34 
>>> Halifax, NS 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
>>> help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at: 
>>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
>>> Thanks for your help. 
>>> Stu 
>> 
>> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
>> help me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: 
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  
>> Thanks for your help. 
>> Stu 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
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Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[Dean McNeill via CnC-List]

Thanks everyone, some great hints and suggestions here. 

I’m a little less worried about the switch after reading all these comments. 
I’ll be sure to let you all know how it works out!

Cheers, Dean

Barrawind
1980 C 34
Halifax, NS
_

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Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[Neil Gallagher via CnC-List]

Dean,

I switched from the original Barient to Lewmar ST winches, the 35-1 has 
them mounted on the raised cockpit coaming top where access is pretty 
good underneath, no liner, plus the coaming top has wood sandwiched in 
it, maybe 3/4" thick or so.  It just happened that the old and new holes 
were quite close together, so I made backing plates from fiberglass 
board, 1/2" thick, bigger in diameter than the winch base, which I 
epoxied under the coaming top.  Once that was in I just filled the old 
holes with epoxy and drilled through for the new winch.  Pretty sure 
they're not going anywhere.


The board came from McMaster Carr, not really cheap but makes nice 
backing plates.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/fiberglass-boards/structural-frp-fiberglass-sheets-bars-and-strips/

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY





From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List  
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 8:24 PM

To: Stus-List
Cc: Dean McNeill
Subject: Stus-List Hints on swapping winches?

I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my 
C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches.
Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill 
old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing 
plates.

Any other hints and tips?

Thanks, Dean
BarraWind
1980 C 34
Halifax, NS

  
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:

https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[Matthew Wolford via CnC-List]

That is a cool approach, but if I understand how it was done, the weak link 
IMHO is that tapped aluminum is holding the new winch.

 

From: CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List  
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2024 2:42 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

 

Hey David,  

That's cool.  You made an adapter plate, so you didn't change the holes through 
the deck.  That's a cool trick. 

  

Thanks, 

Chuck S 

  

  

On 03/23/2024 2:33 PM EDT David Knecht via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

  

  

When I swapped an old non-self tailing winch with a new Harken winch, I decided 
I wanted to re-use the holes from the previous winch.  So I bought a circular 
aluminum plate the size of the winch base, drilled holes through it in the 
pattern of the original winch, then drilled and tapped holes to match the new 
winch base to secure the new winch base.  I am happy with the result.  Dave 

 

S/V Aries 

1990 C 34+ 

New London, CT 








On Mar 22, 2024, at 8:23 PM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

 

I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my 
C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. 
Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill 
old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing 
plates. 

Any other hints and tips? 

Thanks, Dean 
BarraWind 
1980 C 34 
Halifax, NS 


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks for your help. 
Stu 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at: 
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
Thanks for your help. 
Stu 

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Hey David, 
That's cool.  You made an adapter plate, so you didn't change the holes through 
the deck.  That's a cool trick.
 
Thanks,
Chuck S
 
 

> On 03/23/2024 2:33 PM EDT David Knecht via CnC-List  
> wrote:
>  
>  
> When I swapped an old non-self tailing winch with a new Harken winch, I 
> decided I wanted to re-use the holes from the previous winch.  So I bought a 
> circular aluminum plate the size of the winch base, drilled holes through it 
> in the pattern of the original winch, then drilled and tapped holes to match 
> the new winch base to secure the new winch base.  I am happy with the result. 
>  Dave
> 
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> > On Mar 22, 2024, at 8:23 PM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List 
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on 
> > my C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches.
> > Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to 
> > fill old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or 
> > plywood backing plates.
> > 
> > Any other hints and tips?
> > 
> > Thanks, Dean
> > BarraWind
> > 1980 C 34
> > Halifax, NS
> > 
> > 
> > Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and 
> > help me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > Thanks for your help.
> > Stu
> > 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills. Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
> 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

When I swapped an old non-self tailing winch with a new Harken winch, I decided 
I wanted to re-use the holes from the previous winch.  So I bought a circular 
aluminum plate the size of the winch base, drilled holes through it in the 
pattern of the original winch, then drilled and tapped holes to match the new 
winch base to secure the new winch base.  I am happy with the result.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



> On Mar 22, 2024, at 8:23 PM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my 
> C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. 
> Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill 
> old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood 
> backing plates.
> 
> Any other hints and tips?
> 
> Thanks, Dean
> BarraWind
> 1980 C 34
> Halifax, NS 
> 
> 
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu

Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

When I relocated our winches, I used a trick from the West System manual to get 
a nice flat surface for the winch on a crowned coachtop.  I epoxied 1/4" piece 
of G-10, cut to the size of the winch base and epoxied that to the coach roof.  
Before glassing it down, I located the holes in the plate and on the coachroof. 
 To seal the core, I drilled those holes to 3/4", dug out the balsa a further 
1/4 back taped underneath, and primed with neat epoxy, and filled the whole 
cavity with thickened epoxy.  I epoxied the plate on to the coachtop and after 
it was cured, drilled the proper sized holes and countersunk them for bedding.  
I added the original aluminum backing backing plate, underneath and bedded, 
using Butyl.

I've used that trick several times since to add Solar Fans to the crowned drck, 
and raise deckfills, and deck hardware.  It's not as complicated as it sounds.  
I made my own 1/4" thick backing plates, but G-10 is much more convenient.  It 
has a smooth finished surface and is available in so many thicknesses.   

 
Chuck S




> On 03/22/2024 8:23 PM EDT Dean McNeill via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>  
> I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my 
> C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. 
> Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill 
> old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood 
> backing plates.
> 
> Any other hints and tips?
> 
> Thanks, Dean
> BarraWind
> 1980 C 34
> Halifax, NS 
> 
>  
> Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
> me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> Thanks for your help.
> Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[cenelson--- via CnC-List]

I moved my original Lewmar 50 winches and added additional Lewmar 44 winches to 
my 1995 36XL/Kcb and added backing plates to all of them but did not glass the 
plates in place—this would have required destruction of a lot more of the 
interior headliner.
I had used starboard previously but this would have required a fair bit of 
cutting since the starboard came in 2x2’ or 2x4’ sheets and I wanted a plate 
1/2” thick.
A little net searching led me to using red oak boards which could be had in the 
widths necessary (so I only had to cut them to length, not rip them at all.) Of 
course, even cross cutting such dense wood is not a piece of cake!
Instead of glassing them in, I just painted them with a penetrating epoxy to 
keep them water resistant.  (If properly installed, no water should get to them 
anyway).
This type oak is near or at the top of measures of hardness, strength, density, 
etc. much like the live oak that was used for warships in the days of sail. 
After 15+ years of use and regular winch maintenance I have seen no evidence of 
wear or wood rot in these plates and no bending of the deck when pounding to 
weather in a breeze which was obvious prior to adding these plates. 
I believe that the deck would give way and the winch with the plate would break 
free of the boat before the plate would separate from the winch/deck!
FWIW
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom1995 C 36 XL/Kcb













Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS


On Saturday, March 23, 2024, 4:42 AM, Dean McNeill via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my 
C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. 
Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill 
old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing 
plates.

Any other hints and tips?

Thanks, Dean
BarraWind
1980 C 34
Halifax, NS 

 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[Matthew Wolford via CnC-List]

Dean:

The four winches I replaced were not "similar" in terms of make/size, 
but the job probably is.  Mine was made more complicated because the winches 
were located near the mast where C had installed decorative teak decking 
pieces.  I figured I'd just remove the teak pieces, fill the holes, reinstall 
the teak, etc., but nay nay.  I don't know how the teak decking pieces were 
installed (a combination of machine bolts and something else), but it became 
clear that taking them off would be destructive.  On the other hand, the 
problem with filling the old holes with epoxy while the teak pieces were in 
place is that epoxy would be able to escape between the deck surface and the 
teak deck pieces when epoxy was poured into the holes.  The solution I came up 
with was wooden dowels.  First I cleaned out the old holes by drilling them 
slightly larger.  Then I cut dowel pieces a little longer than the hole depth 
(including the teak pieces), soaked them in West System, and tapped them in 
place from the deck (followed by teak plugs).  After they set up, I trimmed the 
excess dowel from inside.  Seems to have worked fine.

If you don't have a complicated situation like mine, I suggest just 
cleaning up the old holes, taping them off underneath, and filling with West 
System.  Use the Slow hardner.  Good luck!

Matt
C 42 Custom   

-Original Message-
From: Dean McNeill via CnC-List  
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2024 8:24 PM
To: Stus-List 
Cc: Dean McNeill 
Subject: Stus-List Hints on swapping winches?

I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my 
C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. 
Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill 
old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing 
plates.

Any other hints and tips?

Thanks, Dean
BarraWind
1980 C 34
Halifax, NS 

 
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu

Stus-List Re: Hints on swapping winches?

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

Dave, that's excellent advice! 

Richard
Richard N. Bush Law Offices2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite NineLouisville, 
Kentucky 40220(502) 584-7255
 

On Saturday, March 23, 2024 at 09:42:56 AM EDT, Dave S via CnC-List 
 wrote:  
 
 Make your own ‘glass backing 
sheetshttp://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/2015/12/making-fibreglass-parts.html?m=1
Dave - ex 33-2.  Windstar 

On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:26 PM Joel Aronson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Don’t use plywood. Aluminum or G10. 

Joel 



On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 8:24 PM Dean McNeill via CnC-List 
 wrote:

I'm about to finally replace my old 2 speed Barient 25 primary winches on my 
C 34, with Harken 46 Self tailing winches. 
Anyone have experience doing a similar swap? I fully expect I’ll need to fill 
old holes and drill new ones. And probably glass in aluminum or plywood backing 
plates.

Any other hints and tips?

Thanks, Dean
BarraWind
1980 C 34
Halifax, NS 


Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu
Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu  Please show your appreciation for this list and the Photo Album site and help 
me pay the associated bills.  Make a contribution at:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Thanks for your help.
Stu