Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
Doesn't say much good for your competition then but you do have a slippery boat Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I totally concur.. You want the stuff to perform as designed.. You apply it as prescribed. If the tetracycline was as effective as claimed, it would be in the paint from the factory. BTW, My burnished Trinidad Pro is still pristine (I check it regularly when we swim) after being constantly in the water 1.5 years. It's not real long yet but that is 1.5 years continuous. My competition scrubs their VC-17 bottom every week, I scrub it never yet we're fast enough to consistently show-up on the podium despite our inexperienced team's frequent mistakes and my old bedsheet sails. :-) -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:07:36 + (UTC) From: Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Message-ID: 1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think any drug like tetracycline will kill lots of germs and bacteria but will dissolve so fast in water, it will be gone in a few days. I wouldn't add anything to bottom paint for fear of jeopardizing the adhesion and slow release of it's own toxins. I've heard of people mixing in Round Up and I've heard the same people complain that their paint flaked off during haulout. I ask them if they sanded with 80 grit paper before painting as directed, and can tell by their confused expression, they never read the directions. I respect the guys who write the application instructions, follow those as close as I can and I've enjoyed great success. I understand your frustration with VC-17. I used VC-Offshore for 8 years and got fed up with the fouling. Had to clean the bottom each week to stay ahead of it. Used a piece of carpet and sometimes a 3M pad. Switched to a better paint, Micron 66, and love it. Kept the boat in all winter and the fouling looked pretty bad this May. All the boats in y marina had a fur attached to their hulls. I was surprised how easy it came off easily with a soft deck brush, and very little pressure. Micron 66 is designed for Salt Water and Fresh Water requires Micron Extra I think. Both can be burnished, but the paint goes on very smooth as is, and by design gets smoother as it ablates. They are multi season hard abatives. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md Regards -- *François Rivard* 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw Big Data Black Belt Atlanta, 30327-3015IBM Sales Distribution, Software Sales UsaMobile:770-639-0429 e-mail:jfriv...@us.ibm.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
hey Kevin, I'm skeptical that Roundup addition to bottom paint will work. I've been lead to believe that Roundup needs to be applied to green leafy plants that are in the growing stage. If you think it works, what kind of proportions are we looking at? Cheers, Russ Sweet 35 mk-1 At 07:36 AM 01/07/2015, you wrote: Anybody dumping Roundup in to their bottom paint and the waters in which we sail should be taken out to the barn and shot. Dumping a witches brew of anti biotics into these same waters is similarly ignorant IMO. Complain about the EPA all you like, but someone needs to take on the unenviable task of protecting the rest of us and our sailing waters from the ill informed and questionably intentioned. My 2 cents. Kevin 30-2 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015, 7:10 AM Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.comcnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I totally concur.. You want the stuff to perform as designed.. You apply it as prescribed. If the tetracycline was as effective as claimed, it would be in the paint from the factory.  BTW, My burnished Trinidad Pro is still pristine (I check it regularly when we swim) after being constantly in the water 1.5 years. It's not real long yet but that is 1.5 years continuous. My competition scrubs their VC-17 bottom every week, I scrub it never yet we're fast enough to consistently show-up on the podium despite our inexperienced team's frequent mistakes and my old bedsheet sails. :-) -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA  Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:07:36 + (UTC) From: Chuck S mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.netcscheaf...@comcast.net To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.comcnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Message-ID:         mailto:1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think any drug like tetracycline will kill lots of germs and bacteria but will dissolve so fast in water, it will be gone in a few days. I wouldn't add anything to bottom paint for fear of jeopardizing the adhesion and slow release of it's own toxins. I've heard of people mixing in Round Up and I've heard the same people complain that their paint flaked off during haulout. I ask them if they sanded with 80 grit paper before painting as directed, and can tell by their confused expression, they never read the directions. I respect the guys who write the application instructions, follow those as close as I can and I've enjoyed great success. I understand your frustration with VC-17. I used VC-Offshore for 8 years and got fed up with the fouling. Had to clean the bottom each week to stay ahead of it. Used a piece of carpet and sometimes a 3M pad. Switched to a better paint, Micron 66, and love it. Kept the boat in all winter and the fouling looked pretty bad this May. All the boats in y marina had a fur attached to their hulls. I was surprised how easy it came off easily with a soft deck brush, and very little pressure. Micron 66 is designed for Salt Water and Fresh Water requires Micron Extra I think. Both can be burnished, but the paint goes on very smooth as is, and by design gets smoother as it ablates. They are multi season hard abatives. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md Regards François Rivard 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw img src=https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yT9P9fq6fQSQzdkkNrsCfc9byuINy9P3Hy_JDJyBHLurJGNqz4lLsxPlpZFYKlaPaON-FGTygiky9KrwObK-bihv6aEqVkE0YISadySMFMhVYPvzD0dNQO2kneoxPl3M_TJPdKOfr83584VGIq_edJRcfI7aazHDBAF0AXkCDKOPSzDwldfw1sUbias9bAJ4zuKpjHXI33y29P2p8V2wbKZuM7abbAowc9SowLGHV9_WjjWpJ9217PPJHWy8pFaBFwADNjAAh241XHMC1An92_F3zrTMgxiPmwve_5Z8fZBjn-DGFbOJBYIji5VlVdIkarqsOk8_UCnhs-pytmTABzw9G-TB2eah9uVZIiPizTmELX_Dsi8_x3WPF0qXRoBU5au0HM6I4A=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2ik=8d5d5ecb01attid=0.0.1th=14e49f48daac7062view=fimgrm=14e49f48daac7062sz=w1600-h1000attbid=ANGjdJ_xhrJR6ziOlX73QDcgzXMydePNMZ6YNmEpaglbP-lTjbBuLzvyP8qjh7V96sFUM8UkDH-niK1rPb4Dm1EDBoFLaqECC6RyYMgV4URidGX-qMhi72Ntd3beXeodisp=embzwhttps://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yT9P9fq6fQSQzdkkNrsCfc9byuINy9P3Hy_JDJyBHLurJGNqz4lLsxPlpZFYKlaPaON-FGTygiky9KrwObK-bihv6aEqVkE0YISadySMFMhVYPvzD0dNQO2kneoxPl3M_TJPdKOfr83584VGIq_edJRcfI7aazHDBAF0AXkCDKOPSzDwldfw1sUbias9bAJ4zuKpjHXI33y29P2p8V2wbKZuM7abbAowc9SowLG HV9_WjjWpJ9217PPJHWy8pFaBFwADNjAAh241XHMC1An92_F3zrTMgxiPmwve_5Z8fZBjn-DGFbOJBYIji5VlVdIkarqsOk8_UCnhs-pytmTABzw9G-TB2eah9uVZIiPizTmELX_Dsi8_x3WPF0qXRoBU5au0HM6I4A=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2ik=8d5d5ecb01attid=0.0.1th=14e49f48daac7062view=fimgrm=14e49f48daac7062sz=w1600-h1000attbid=ANGjdJ_xhrJR6ziOlX73QDcgzXMydePNMZ6YNmEpaglbP-lTjbBuLzvyP8qjh7V96sFUM8UkDH-niK1rPb4Dm1EDBoFLaqECC6RyYMgV4URidGX-qMhi72Ntd3beXeodisp=embzw; Big Data Black Belt Atlanta, 30327
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
Roundup is water soluble. Bill Bina On 7/2/2015 11:48 AM, Russ Melody via CnC-List wrote: hey Kevin, I'm skeptical that Roundup addition to bottom paint will work. I've been lead to believe that Roundup needs to be applied to green leafy plants that are in the growing stage. If you think it works, what kind of proportions are we looking at? Cheers, Russ /Sweet /35 mk-1 At 07:36 AM 01/07/2015, you wrote: Anybody dumping Roundup in to their bottom paint and the waters in which we sail should be taken out to the barn and shot. Dumping a witches brew of anti biotics into these same waters is similarly ignorant IMO. Complain about the EPA all you like, but someone needs to take on the unenviable task of protecting the rest of us and our sailing waters from the ill informed and questionably intentioned. My 2 cents. Kevin 30-2 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015, 7:10 AM Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I totally concur.. You want the stuff to perform as designed.. You apply it as prescribed. If the tetracycline was as effective as claimed, it would be in the paint from the factory.  BTW, My burnished Trinidad Pro is still pristine (I check it regularly when we swim) after being constantly in the water 1.5 years. It's not real long yet but that is 1.5 years continuous. My competition scrubs their VC-17 bottom every week, I scrub it never yet we're fast enough to consistently show-up on the podium despite our inexperienced team's frequent mistakes and my old bedsheet sails. :-) -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA  Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:07:36 + (UTC) From: Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Message-ID:         1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net mailto:1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think any drug like tetracycline will kill lots of germs and bacteria but will dissolve so fast in water, it will be gone in a few days. I wouldn't add anything to bottom paint for fear of jeopardizing the adhesion and slow release of it's own toxins. I've heard of people mixing in Round Up and I've heard the same people complain that their paint flaked off during haulout. I ask them if they sanded with 80 grit paper before painting as directed, and can tell by their confused expression, they never read the directions. I respect the guys who write the application instructions, follow those as close as I can and I've enjoyed great success. I understand your frustration with VC-17. I used VC-Offshore for 8 years and got fed up with the fouling. Had to clean the bottom each week to stay ahead of it. Used a piece of carpet and sometimes a 3M pad. Switched to a better paint, Micron 66, and love it. Kept the boat in all winter and the fouling looked pretty bad this May. All the boats in y marina had a fur attached to their hulls. I was surprised how easy it came off easily with a soft deck brush, and very little pressure. Micron 66 is designed for Salt Water and Fresh Water requires Micron Extra I think. Both can be burnished, but the paint goes on very smooth as is, and by design gets smoother as it ablates. They are multi season hard abatives. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md Regards François Rivard 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw img src=https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yT9P9fq6fQSQzdkkNrsCfc9byuINy9P3Hy_JDJyBHLurJGNqz4lLsxPlpZFYKlaPaON-FGTygiky9KrwObK-bihv6aEqVkE0YISadySMFMhVYPvzD0dNQO2kneoxPl3M_TJPdKOfr83584VGIq_edJRcfI7aazHDBAF0AXkCDKOPSzDwldfw1sUbias9bAJ4zuKpjHXI33y29P2p8V2wbKZuM7abbAowc9SowLGHV9_WjjWpJ9217PPJHWy8pFaBFwADNjAAh241XHMC1An92_F3zrTMgxiPmwve_5Z8fZBjn-DGFbOJBYIji5VlVdIkarqsOk8_UCnhs-pytmTABzw9G-TB2eah9uVZIiPizTmELX_Dsi8_x3WPF0qXRoBU5au0HM6I4A=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2ik=8d5d5ecb01attid=0.0.1th=14e49f48daac7062view=fimgrm=14e49f48daac7062sz=w1600-h1000attbid=ANGjdJ_xhrJR6ziOlX73QDcgzXMydePNMZ6YNmEpaglbP-lTjbBuLzvyP8qjh7V96sFUM8UkDH-niK1rPb4Dm1EDBoFLaqECC6RyYMgV4URidGX-qMhi72Ntd3beXeodisp=embzw Big Data Black Belt Atlanta, 30327-3015IBM Sales Distribution, Software Sales UsaMobile:770-639-0429 e-mail:jfriv...@us.ibm.com mailto:jfriv...@us.ibm.com    ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
Anybody dumping Roundup in to their bottom paint and the waters in which we sail should be taken out to the barn and shot. Dumping a witches brew of anti biotics into these same waters is similarly ignorant IMO. Complain about the EPA all you like, but someone needs to take on the unenviable task of protecting the rest of us and our sailing waters from the ill informed and questionably intentioned. My 2 cents. Kevin 30-2 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015, 7:10 AM Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I totally concur.. You want the stuff to perform as designed.. You apply it as prescribed. If the tetracycline was as effective as claimed, it would be in the paint from the factory. BTW, My burnished Trinidad Pro is still pristine (I check it regularly when we swim) after being constantly in the water 1.5 years. It's not real long yet but that is 1.5 years continuous. My competition scrubs their VC-17 bottom every week, I scrub it never yet we're fast enough to consistently show-up on the podium despite our inexperienced team's frequent mistakes and my old bedsheet sails. :-) -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:07:36 + (UTC) From: Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Message-ID: 1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think any drug like tetracycline will kill lots of germs and bacteria but will dissolve so fast in water, it will be gone in a few days. I wouldn't add anything to bottom paint for fear of jeopardizing the adhesion and slow release of it's own toxins. I've heard of people mixing in Round Up and I've heard the same people complain that their paint flaked off during haulout. I ask them if they sanded with 80 grit paper before painting as directed, and can tell by their confused expression, they never read the directions. I respect the guys who write the application instructions, follow those as close as I can and I've enjoyed great success. I understand your frustration with VC-17. I used VC-Offshore for 8 years and got fed up with the fouling. Had to clean the bottom each week to stay ahead of it. Used a piece of carpet and sometimes a 3M pad. Switched to a better paint, Micron 66, and love it. Kept the boat in all winter and the fouling looked pretty bad this May. All the boats in y marina had a fur attached to their hulls. I was surprised how easy it came off easily with a soft deck brush, and very little pressure. Micron 66 is designed for Salt Water and Fresh Water requires Micron Extra I think. Both can be burnished, but the paint goes on very smooth as is, and by design gets smoother as it ablates. They are multi season hard abatives. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md Regards *François Rivard* 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw img src= https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yT9P9fq6fQSQzdkkNrsCfc9byuINy9P3Hy_JDJyBHLurJGNqz4lLsxPlpZFYKlaPaON-FGTygiky9KrwObK-bihv6aEqVkE0YISadySMFMhVYPvzD0dNQO2kneoxPl3M_TJPdKOfr83584VGIq_edJRcfI7aazHDBAF0AXkCDKOPSzDwldfw1sUbias9bAJ4zuKpjHXI33y29P2p8V2wbKZuM7abbAowc9SowLGHV9_WjjWpJ9217PPJHWy8pFaBFwADNjAAh241XHMC1An92_F3zrTMgxiPmwve_5Z8fZBjn-DGFbOJBYIji5VlVdIkarqsOk8_UCnhs-pytmTABzw9G-TB2eah9uVZIiPizTmELX_Dsi8_x3WPF0qXRoBU5au0HM6I4A=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2ik=8d5d5ecb01attid=0.0.1th=14e49f48daac7062view=fimgrm=14e49f48daac7062sz=w1600-h1000attbid=ANGjdJ_xhrJR6ziOlX73QDcgzXMydePNMZ6YNmEpaglbP-lTjbBuLzvyP8qjh7V96sFUM8UkDH-niK1rPb4Dm1EDBoFLaqECC6RyYMgV4URidGX-qMhi72Ntd3beXeodisp=embzw Big Data Black Belt Atlanta, 30327-3015IBM Sales Distribution, Software Sales UsaMobile:770-639-0429 e-mail:jfriv...@us.ibm.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
Not defending the use of antibiotics in bottom paint, but nearly all antifouling is toxic to marine life (which is why it’s used as antifouling ...) Copper is nasty stuff to marine life and to people (in sufficient doses), which is why the smart sailor wears a respirator and plenty of protective clothing when sanding and painting the bottom. Trinidad Pro, until recently, had an effective (read nasty) pesticide called Irgarol that ran into trouble with the EPA. Those of us who are older may remember tin-based bottom paint that worked wonderfully, but created aquatic dead zones around your boat. Using antibiotics unnecessarily is bad (both in farming and sailing) because bacteria adapt quickly and can learn to outwit particular types, making those antibiotics ineffective. Just saying ... none us us has cleans hands in this. If you have a sailboat, you’re harming the environment to some degree. Jack Brennan Former CC 25 Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30 Tierra Verde, Fl. From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 10:36 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Kevin Driscoll ; Jean-Francois J Rivard Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Anybody dumping Roundup in to their bottom paint and the waters in which we sail should be taken out to the barn and shot. Dumping a witches brew of anti biotics into these same waters is similarly ignorant IMO. Complain about the EPA all you like, but someone needs to take on the unenviable task of protecting the rest of us and our sailing waters from the ill informed and questionably intentioned. My 2 cents. Kevin 30-2 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015, 7:10 AM Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I totally concur.. You want the stuff to perform as designed.. You apply it as prescribed. If the tetracycline was as effective as claimed, it would be in the paint from the factory. BTW, My burnished Trinidad Pro is still pristine (I check it regularly when we swim) after being constantly in the water 1.5 years. It's not real long yet but that is 1.5 years continuous. My competition scrubs their VC-17 bottom every week, I scrub it never yet we're fast enough to consistently show-up on the podium despite our inexperienced team's frequent mistakes and my old bedsheet sails. :-) -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:07:36 + (UTC) From: Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Message-ID: 1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think any drug like tetracycline will kill lots of germs and bacteria but will dissolve so fast in water, it will be gone in a few days. I wouldn't add anything to bottom paint for fear of jeopardizing the adhesion and slow release of it's own toxins. I've heard of people mixing in Round Up and I've heard the same people complain that their paint flaked off during haulout. I ask them if they sanded with 80 grit paper before painting as directed, and can tell by their confused expression, they never read the directions. I respect the guys who write the application instructions, follow those as close as I can and I've enjoyed great success. I understand your frustration with VC-17. I used VC-Offshore for 8 years and got fed up with the fouling. Had to clean the bottom each week to stay ahead of it. Used a piece of carpet and sometimes a 3M pad. Switched to a better paint, Micron 66, and love it. Kept the boat in all winter and the fouling looked pretty bad this May. All the boats in y marina had a fur attached to their hulls. I was surprised how easy it came off easily with a soft deck brush, and very little pressure. Micron 66 is designed for Salt Water and Fresh Water requires Micron Extra I think. Both can be burnished, but the paint goes on very smooth as is, and by design gets smoother as it ablates. They are multi season hard abatives. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md Regards François Rivard 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw img src=https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yT9P9fq6fQSQzdkkNrsCfc9byuINy9P3Hy_JDJyBHLurJGNqz4lLsxPlpZFYKlaPaON-FGTygiky9KrwObK-bihv6aEqVkE0YISadySMFMhVYPvzD0dNQO2kneoxPl3M_TJPdKOfr83584VGIq_edJRcfI7aazHDBAF0AXkCDKOPSzDwldfw1sUbias9bAJ4zuKpjHXI33y29P2p8V2wbKZuM7abbAowc9SowLGHV9_WjjWpJ9217PPJHWy8pFaBFwADNjAAh241XHMC1An92_F3zrTMgxiPmwve_5Z8fZBjn-DGFbOJBYIji5VlVdIkarqsOk8_UCnhs-pytmTABzw9G-TB2eah9uVZIiPizTmELX_Dsi8_x3WPF0qXRoBU5au0HM6I4A=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2ik=8d5d5ecb01attid=0.0.1th=14e49f48daac7062view=fimgrm=14e49f48daac7062sz=w1600-h1000attbid=ANGjdJ_xhrJR6ziOlX73QDcgzXMydePNMZ6YNmEpaglbP-lTjbBuLzvyP8qjh7V96sFUM8UkDH-niK1rPb4Dm1EDBoFLaqECC6RyYMgV4URidGX-qMhi72Ntd3beXeodisp=embzw; Big Data Black Belt Atlanta, 30327
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
You really ought to become better informed yourself before you go shooting your mouth off about killing people. You obviously know very little about these chemicals, chemistry in general, or proportions or common usage yourself, or you wouldn't make such ridiculous and offensive comments about other sailors on this list. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Kevin Driscoll ; Jean-Francois J Rivard Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 10:36 Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Anybody dumping Roundup in to their bottom paint and the waters in which we sail should be taken out to the barn and shot. Dumping a witches brew of anti biotics into these same waters is similarly ignorant IMO. Complain about the EPA all you like, but someone needs to take on the unenviable task of protecting the rest of us and our sailing waters from the ill informed and questionably intentioned. My 2 cents. Kevin 30-2 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015, 7:10 AM Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I totally concur.. You want the stuff to perform as designed.. You apply it as prescribed. If the tetracycline was as effective as claimed, it would be in the paint from the factory. BTW, My burnished Trinidad Pro is still pristine (I check it regularly when we swim) after being constantly in the water 1.5 years. It's not real long yet but that is 1.5 years continuous. My competition scrubs their VC-17 bottom every week, I scrub it never yet we're fast enough to consistently show-up on the podium despite our inexperienced team's frequent mistakes and my old bedsheet sails. :-) -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:07:36 + (UTC) From: Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Message-ID: 1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think any drug like tetracycline will kill lots of germs and bacteria but will dissolve so fast in water, it will be gone in a few days. I wouldn't add anything to bottom paint for fear of jeopardizing the adhesion and slow release of it's own toxins. I've heard of people mixing in Round Up and I've heard the same people complain that their paint flaked off during haulout. I ask them if they sanded with 80 grit paper before painting as directed, and can tell by their confused expression, they never read the directions. I respect the guys who write the application instructions, follow those as close as I can and I've enjoyed great success. I understand your frustration with VC-17. I used VC-Offshore for 8 years and got fed up with the fouling. Had to clean the bottom each week to stay ahead of it. Used a piece of carpet and sometimes a 3M pad. Switched to a better paint, Micron 66, and love it. Kept the boat in all winter and the fouling looked pretty bad this May. All the boats in y marina had a fur attached to their hulls. I was surprised how easy it came off easily with a soft deck brush, and very little pressure. Micron 66 is designed for Salt Water and Fresh Water requires Micron Extra I think. Both can be burnished, but the paint goes on very smooth as is, and by design gets smoother as it ablates. They are multi season hard abatives. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md Regards François Rivard 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw img src=https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yT9P9fq6fQSQzdkkNrsCfc9byuINy9P3Hy_JDJyBHLurJGNqz4lLsxPlpZFYKlaPaON-FGTygiky9KrwObK-bihv6aEqVkE0YISadySMFMhVYPvzD0dNQO2kneoxPl3M_TJPdKOfr83584VGIq_edJRcfI7aazHDBAF0AXkCDKOPSzDwldfw1sUbias9bAJ4zuKpjHXI33y29P2p8V2wbKZuM7abbAowc9SowLGHV9_WjjWpJ9217PPJHWy8pFaBFwADNjAAh241XHMC1An92_F3zrTMgxiPmwve_5Z8fZBjn-DGFbOJBYIji5VlVdIkarqsOk8_UCnhs-pytmTABzw9G-TB2eah9uVZIiPizTmELX_Dsi8_x3WPF0qXRoBU5au0HM6I4A=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2ik=8d5d5ecb01attid=0.0.1th=14e49f48daac7062view=fimgrm=14e49f48daac7062sz=w1600-h1000attbid=ANGjdJ_xhrJR6ziOlX73QDcgzXMydePNMZ6YNmEpaglbP-lTjbBuLzvyP8qjh7V96sFUM8UkDH-niK1rPb4Dm1EDBoFLaqECC6RyYMgV4URidGX-qMhi72Ntd3beXeodisp=embzw; Big Data Black Belt Atlanta, 30327-3015IBM Sales Distribution, Software Sales UsaMobile:770-639-0429 e-mail:jfriv...@us.ibm.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
Now, girls…!! Rich Knowles Nanaimo, BC Boatless! On Jul 1, 2015, at 15:24, S Thomas via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: You really ought to become better informed yourself before you go shooting your mouth off about killing people. You obviously know very little about these chemicals, chemistry in general, or proportions or common usage yourself, or you wouldn't make such ridiculous and offensive comments about other sailors on this list. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII - Original Message - From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Kevin Driscoll mailto:kevindrisc...@gmail.com ; Jean-Francois J Rivard mailto:jfriv...@us.ibm.com Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 10:36 Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Anybody dumping Roundup in to their bottom paint and the waters in which we sail should be taken out to the barn and shot. Dumping a witches brew of anti biotics into these same waters is similarly ignorant IMO. Complain about the EPA all you like, but someone needs to take on the unenviable task of protecting the rest of us and our sailing waters from the ill informed and questionably intentioned. My 2 cents. Kevin 30-2 On Wed, Jul 1, 2015, 7:10 AM Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I totally concur.. You want the stuff to perform as designed.. You apply it as prescribed. If the tetracycline was as effective as claimed, it would be in the paint from the factory. BTW, My burnished Trinidad Pro is still pristine (I check it regularly when we swim) after being constantly in the water 1.5 years. It's not real long yet but that is 1.5 years continuous. My competition scrubs their VC-17 bottom every week, I scrub it never yet we're fast enough to consistently show-up on the podium despite our inexperienced team's frequent mistakes and my old bedsheet sails. :-) -Francois 1990 34+ Take Five Lake Lanier, GA Message: 6 Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 01:07:36 + (UTC) From: Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Message-ID: 1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net mailto:1958787858.6613606.1435712856109.javamail.zim...@comcast.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I think any drug like tetracycline will kill lots of germs and bacteria but will dissolve so fast in water, it will be gone in a few days. I wouldn't add anything to bottom paint for fear of jeopardizing the adhesion and slow release of it's own toxins. I've heard of people mixing in Round Up and I've heard the same people complain that their paint flaked off during haulout. I ask them if they sanded with 80 grit paper before painting as directed, and can tell by their confused expression, they never read the directions. I respect the guys who write the application instructions, follow those as close as I can and I've enjoyed great success. I understand your frustration with VC-17. I used VC-Offshore for 8 years and got fed up with the fouling. Had to clean the bottom each week to stay ahead of it. Used a piece of carpet and sometimes a 3M pad. Switched to a better paint, Micron 66, and love it. Kept the boat in all winter and the fouling looked pretty bad this May. All the boats in y marina had a fur attached to their hulls. I was surprised how easy it came off easily with a soft deck brush, and very little pressure. Micron 66 is designed for Salt Water and Fresh Water requires Micron Extra I think. Both can be burnished, but the paint goes on very smooth as is, and by design gets smoother as it ablates. They are multi season hard abatives. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md Regards François Rivard 4111 Northside Pkwy, Nw img src=https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yT9P9fq6fQSQzdkkNrsCfc9byuINy9P3Hy_JDJyBHLurJGNqz4lLsxPlpZFYKlaPaON-FGTygiky9KrwObK-bihv6aEqVkE0YISadySMFMhVYPvzD0dNQO2kneoxPl3M_TJPdKOfr83584VGIq_edJRcfI7aazHDBAF0AXkCDKOPSzDwldfw1sUbias9bAJ4zuKpjHXI33y29P2p8V2wbKZuM7abbAowc9SowLGHV9_WjjWpJ9217PPJHWy8pFaBFwADNjAAh241XHMC1An92_F3zrTMgxiPmwve_5Z8fZBjn-DGFbOJBYIji5VlVdIkarqsOk8_UCnhs-pytmTABzw9G-TB2eah9uVZIiPizTmELX_Dsi8_x3WPF0qXRoBU5au0HM6I4A=s0-d-e1-ft#https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2ik=8d5d5ecb01attid=0.0.1th=14e49f48daac7062view=fimgrm=14e49f48daac7062sz=w1600-h1000attbid=ANGjdJ_xhrJR6ziOlX73QDcgzXMydePNMZ6YNmEpaglbP-lTjbBuLzvyP8qjh7V96sFUM8UkDH-niK1rPb4Dm1EDBoFLaqECC6RyYMgV4URidGX-qMhi72Ntd3beXeodisp=embzw https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yT9P9fq6fQSQzdkkNrsCfc9byuINy9P3Hy_JDJyBHLurJGNqz4lLsxPlpZFYKlaPaON-FGTygiky9KrwObK
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
All I know is the old Sears bottom paint would keep your boat spotless all year and also any other boats nearby. It killed anything that dared to get within 100 yards! Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com mailto:j...@dellabarba.com Coquina ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
I had Micron 66 on Pegasus lasted 4 1/2 years. Would have lasted longer
except I had the bottom cleaned once. Just using the boat kept it clean. Now I
am using Blue Water 45. 3 years and still going strong.
Doug MountjoysvPegasusLF38 just west of Ballard, WA.
-- Original message--From: Chuck S via CnC-List Date: Tue, Jun 30, 2015
18:07To: CNC boat owners, cnc-list;Cc: Chuck S;Subject:Re: Stus-List Bottom
paint -ingredient changeI think any drug like tetracycline will kill lots of
germs and bacteria but will dissolve so fast in water, it will be gone in a few
days. I wouldn't add anything to bottom paint for fear of jeopardizing the
adhesion and slow release of it's own toxins. I've heard of people mixing in
Round Up and I've heard the same people complain that their paint flaked off
during haulout. I ask them if they sanded with 80 grit paper before painting
as directed, and can tell by their confused expression, they never read the
directions.
I respect the guys who write the application instructions, follow those as
close as I can and I've enjoyed great success.
I understand your frustration with VC-17. I used VC-Offshore for 8 years and
got fed up with the fouling. Had to clean the bottom each week to stay ahead
of it. Used a piece of carpet and sometimes a 3M pad. Switched to a better
paint, Micron 66, and love it. Kept the boat in all winter and the fouling
looked pretty bad this May. All the boats in y marina had a fur attached to
their hulls. I was surprised how easy it came off easily with a soft deck
brush, and very little pressure. Micron 66 is designed for Salt Water and
Fresh Water requires Micron Extra I think. Both can be burnished, but the
paint goes on very smooth as is, and by design gets smoother as it ablates.
They are multi season hard abatives.
Chuck
Resolute
1990 CC 34R
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
From: S Thomas via CnC-List
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: S Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:23:54 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
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Rick, I decided to try your friend's suggestion, but with the
veterinary grade tetracycline since that is all that is available to us mere
mortals who are not M.D.s. The stuff I bought from the local farm supply is 25%
tetracycline by weight and whatever makes up the rest of it is not mentioned on
the packaging. I used about a rounded teaspoon in a quart of VC17 and it seemed
to work ok mix and application wise but with one big problem. The veterinary
stuff consists of particles the size of fine sand, instead of the fine powder
used in the gel caps fit for humans. I should have ground it up into a fine
powder first, but I was in a hurry and not wearing my reading glasses. The
result was as you might expect from this description. The surface texture of
paint with bits of fine sand mixed in here and there. Live and learn, and a
word to the wise. Make sure that anything you add to paint is ground up super
fine. Seems obvious I know, but being in a hurry tends to make me stupid.
Steve ThomasCC27 MKIIIPort Stanley P.S. Finally in the water, as of yesterday
afternoon. - Original Message -From: Rick Brass via CnC-List
To: 'Jean-Francois J Rivard' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 09:57Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint
-ingredient change
A number of years ago, a friend who is a physician, and also the owner of a big
Cape Dory, gave me a bottle of Tetracycline antibiotic that was past its
expiration date and told me to mix it into my bottom paint. That’s what he said
he did for anti-slime additive, back in the days before paints with SR in the
name, when you had to pay
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
Rick, I decided to try your friend's suggestion, but with the veterinary grade tetracycline since that is all that is available to us mere mortals who are not M.D.s. The stuff I bought from the local farm supply is 25% tetracycline by weight and whatever makes up the rest of it is not mentioned on the packaging. I used about a rounded teaspoon in a quart of VC17 and it seemed to work ok mix and application wise but with one big problem. The veterinary stuff consists of particles the size of fine sand, instead of the fine powder used in the gel caps fit for humans. I should have ground it up into a fine powder first, but I was in a hurry and not wearing my reading glasses. The result was as you might expect from this description. The surface texture of paint with bits of fine sand mixed in here and there. Live and learn, and a word to the wise. Make sure that anything you add to paint is ground up super fine. Seems obvious I know, but being in a hurry tends to make me stupid. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII Port Stanley P.S. Finally in the water, as of yesterday afternoon. - Original Message - From: Rick Brass via CnC-List To: 'Jean-Francois J Rivard' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 09:57 Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change A number of years ago, a friend who is a physician, and also the owner of a big Cape Dory, gave me a bottle of Tetracycline antibiotic that was past its expiration date and told me to mix it into my bottom paint. That’s what he said he did for anti-slime additive, back in the days before paints with SR in the name, when you had to pay the marina to put anti-slime additive in the paint. Damn! My bottom was really clean between bottom paintings. I have since been told that you can purchase antibiotics for use on horses at many farm stores that cater to stables. I suppose it is not a good idea to tell your local version of the EPA if you chose to do this. (And in case anyone from the government is listening, I use Petit Ultima SR 60 on both my boats.) Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:03 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change In Practical Sailor's tests Irgarol has not been shown to extend the active life of antifouling paints in our tests, and we’ve had a hard time discerning any enhanced slime resistance in Irgarol-boosted paints after six months in the water. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
I think any drug like tetracycline will kill lots of germs and bacteria but will dissolve so fast in water, it will be gone in a few days. I wouldn't add anything to bottom paint for fear of jeopardizing the adhesion and slow release of it's own toxins. I've heard of people mixing in Round Up and I've heard the same people complain that their paint flaked off during haulout. I ask them if they sanded with 80 grit paper before painting as directed, and can tell by their confused expression, they never read the directions. I respect the guys who write the application instructions, follow those as close as I can and I've enjoyed great success. I understand your frustration with VC-17. I used VC-Offshore for 8 years and got fed up with the fouling. Had to clean the bottom each week to stay ahead of it. Used a piece of carpet and sometimes a 3M pad. Switched to a better paint, Micron 66, and love it. Kept the boat in all winter and the fouling looked pretty bad this May. All the boats in y marina had a fur attached to their hulls. I was surprised how easy it came off easily with a soft deck brush, and very little pressure. Micron 66 is designed for Salt Water and Fresh Water requires Micron Extra I think. Both can be burnished, but the paint goes on very smooth as is, and by design gets smoother as it ablates. They are multi season hard abatives. Chuck Resolute 1990 CC 34R Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md - Original Message - From: S Thomas via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: S Thomas sthom...@bellnet.ca Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 8:23:54 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Rick, I decided to try your friend's suggestion, but with the veterinary grade tetracycline since that is all that is available to us mere mortals who are not M.D.s. The stuff I bought from the local farm supply is 25% tetracycline by weight and whatever makes up the rest of it is not mentioned on the packaging. I used about a rounded teaspoon in a quart of VC17 and it seemed to work ok mix and application wise but with one big problem. The veterinary stuff consists of particles the size of fine sand, instead of the fine powder used in the gel caps fit for humans. I should have ground it up into a fine powder first, but I was in a hurry and not wearing my reading glasses. The result was as you might expect from this description. The surface texture of paint with bits of fine sand mixed in here and there. Live and learn, and a word to the wise. Make sure that anything you add to paint is ground up super fine. Seems obvious I know, but being in a hurry tends to make me stupid. Steve Thomas CC27 MKIII Port Stanley P.S. Finally in the water, as of yesterday afternoon. blockquote - Original Message - From: Rick Brass via CnC-List To: 'Jean-Francois J Rivard' ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 09:57 Subject: Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change A number of years ago, a friend who is a physician, and also the owner of a big Cape Dory, gave me a bottle of Tetracycline antibiotic that was past its expiration date and told me to mix it into my bottom paint. That’s what he said he did for anti-slime additive, back in the days before paints with SR in the name, when you had to pay the marina to put anti-slime additive in the paint. Damn! My bottom was really clean between bottom paintings. I have since been told that you can purchase antibiotics for use on horses at many farm stores that cater to stables. I suppose it is not a good idea to tell your local version of the EPA if you chose to do this. (And in case anyone from the government is listening, I use Petit Ultima SR 60 on both my boats.) Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2015 9:03 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change In Practical Sailor's tests Irgarol has not been shown to extend the active life of antifouling paints in our tests, and we’ve had a hard time discerning any enhanced slime resistance in Irgarol-boosted paints after six months in the water. /blockquote ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
According to Pettit tech support, the herbicide is a supply issue from the manufacturer and only temporary at that. Does anyone know if this is correct ? From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2015 10:56 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Buy it while you can get it! http://totalboatshow.com/wordpress/2015/03/13/antifouling-companies-struggle-with-the-loss-of-herbicide-irgarol/ -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change
From the link in the email that started this thread: Irgarol: The algaecide supplied by chemical giant BASF and widely relied upon by most marine paint manufacturers to control “soft growths” like slime and plant growth that has very recently been discontinued as a bottom paint ingredient. BASF seems to have caught the bottom paint industry off guard with their announcement late last year, and while manufacturers of the Irgarol dependent paint hope that in just 6-9 months it could be in production again, there is no guarantee, and certainly these companies had to act quickly to be ready for bottom paint season with an alternative. There are a number of popular antifouling paints that are being affected by BASF’s discontinuation of Irgarol. *Pettit*: ***SR-21 http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6735 will not be available until Irgarol is re-released (available at JD.com http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6735) http://totalboatshow.com/wordpress/2015/03/13/antifouling-companies-struggle-with-the-loss-of-herbicide-irgarol/ Ken H. On 18 March 2015 at 13:50, LKL via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: According to Pettit tech support, the herbicide is a supply issue from the manufacturer and only temporary at that. Does anyone know if this is correct ? *From:* Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2015 10:56 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Stus-List Bottom paint -ingredient change Buy it while you can get it! http://totalboatshow.com/wordpress/2015/03/13/antifouling-companies-struggle-with-the-loss-of-herbicide-irgarol/ -- Joel 301 541 8551 -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
