Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

[Wally Kowal via CnC-List]

Robert,

That looked like tons of fun.

I'm a lucky man because my wife enjoys putting the rail in the water.  I'm
usually the one worrying because she has no regard for the forces
involved.  She broke the undersized mainsheet shackle on our first solo
sail because the PO never pushed the boat as hard as she did.

We once did a 35+ knots downwind run under reefed jib across Humber Bay in
Toronto (notorious for its waves in wind) with our one-year old son packed
in pillows in the v-berth.  The marine police came out to see who was silly
enough to be out sailing during a small craft warning.

It's great that your guests enjoyed the sail.  Most non-sailors get
intimidated when things get tippy.

Wally.
Whistler II
C 30 '73
Now on the hard in Niagara-on-the-Lake
(5 Kms from the factory where she was made)

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 8:04 PM robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Bailey,
>
> The video doesn't look like conditions were heavy air downwind with a
> following seahead sail or main sail in those kind of conditions was the
> topicbut I agree, going upwind in a big breeze with a 100% jib works
> great on my boat.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 #277
> Halifax, N.S.
>
> On 2019-03-19 7:21 p.m., Bailey White via CnC-List wrote:
>
> I went sailing with friends recently in heavy air and the winds built to
> 35 to 40 on my old C 36.  I had thought I would set a reefed main but
> found instead that I kept rolling the #3 up instead and never wanted for a
> main. The helm still felt good.
>
> Here is a quick video a friend took that day:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ji7eivusac7qf9s/heavyairupwind.mov?dl=0
>
> Please forgive the fender that rolled overboard and dragged in the video,
> the sail trim, etc.  I know better but was busy with non-sailing friends
> and happy to keep everyone safe.
>
> The boat performed well and pumping the backstay kept the jib from being
> too full.  I only regret that I did not furl enough soon enough and did not
> furl enough overall even though I was at probably 50% furl. That was the
> most wind I've sailed this boat in.
>
> I think the sturdy masthead rig is good without a main if need be.  A main
> would help reduce backstay loading as part of the load would be transmitted
> through the mainsheet.  My mainsheet is on the cabin top and doesn't have
> the leverage of the backstay though.
>
> I believe it was Dennis who mentioned he sailed in 50+ downwind.  wow.  I
> haven't gotten this boat going that fast.  I am a big fan of jib only in
> heavy air downwind.
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

[Bill Coleman via CnC-List]

That looks like a fun day – videos never look as snowy, or as windy as they 
really were, but you can tell by the heel and that little handkerchief it was a 
breezy day – I hope you didn’t have to go upwind after that, because you 
wouldn’t have with that little bit of sail ! 

 

Bill Coleman

C 39 Erie, PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bailey White 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 6:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bailey White
Subject: Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

 

I went sailing with friends recently in heavy air and the winds built to 35 to 
40 on my old C 36.  I had thought I would set a reefed main but found instead 
that I kept rolling the #3 up instead and never wanted for a main. The helm 
still felt good.

 

Here is a quick video a friend took that day:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ji7eivusac7qf9s/heavyairupwind.mov?dl=0

 

Please forgive the fender that rolled overboard and dragged in the video, the 
sail trim, etc.  I know better but was busy with non-sailing friends and happy 
to keep everyone safe.  

 

The boat performed well and pumping the backstay kept the jib from being too 
full.  I only regret that I did not furl enough soon enough and did not furl 
enough overall even though I was at probably 50% furl. That was the most wind 
I've sailed this boat in.

 

I think the sturdy masthead rig is good without a main if need be.  A main 
would help reduce backstay loading as part of the load would be transmitted 
through the mainsheet.  My mainsheet is on the cabin top and doesn't have the 
leverage of the backstay though.  

 

I believe it was Dennis who mentioned he sailed in 50+ downwind.  wow.  I 
haven't gotten this boat going that fast.  I am a big fan of jib only in heavy 
air downwind.  

 

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Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

[Bailey White via CnC-List]

I went sailing with friends recently in heavy air and the winds built to 35
to 40 on my old C 36.  I had thought I would set a reefed main but found
instead that I kept rolling the #3 up instead and never wanted for a main.
The helm still felt good.

Here is a quick video a friend took that day:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ji7eivusac7qf9s/heavyairupwind.mov?dl=0

Please forgive the fender that rolled overboard and dragged in the video,
the sail trim, etc.  I know better but was busy with non-sailing friends
and happy to keep everyone safe.

The boat performed well and pumping the backstay kept the jib from being
too full.  I only regret that I did not furl enough soon enough and did not
furl enough overall even though I was at probably 50% furl. That was the
most wind I've sailed this boat in.

I think the sturdy masthead rig is good without a main if need be.  A main
would help reduce backstay loading as part of the load would be transmitted
through the mainsheet.  My mainsheet is on the cabin top and doesn't have
the leverage of the backstay though.

I believe it was Dennis who mentioned he sailed in 50+ downwind.  wow.  I
haven't gotten this boat going that fast.  I am a big fan of jib only in
heavy air downwind.
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Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

Rob,

When I am out for a cruise I will use my roller furl only - upwind, 
reaching and downwind. A lot less hassle and i am not worried about 
someone losing their head to the boom or fingers to the main traveler.  
The roller furl is 140% and most importantly the helm is balanced going 
upwind.  Main only, the boat is a dog upwind.


Don Kern
Fireball, C Mk2
Bristol, RI



On 3/19/2019 1:56 PM, robert via CnC-List wrote:
Interesting comments for sailing down wind..my preference is to 
sail with the main aloneleave the jib furled.my boat, a 32, 
feels better balanced, better control of the sail, the bow is not 
being pulled downward, better helm.


Would I rather unfurl and furl a jib over hoisting and folding a main, 
you bet.but my boat preforms better with the main alone, or at the 
least, I think it does.


Rob Abbott
AZURA
C 32 - #277
Halifax, N.S.


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Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Many of our older boats have smaller, high aspect mains.  Unlike newer
designs, older C's are primarily headsail driven.

For a 35-1,

sail area of main = 260 sq. ft.  (0.5 x P x E)
Area of foretriangle = 320 sq. ft. (0.5 x I x J)

Headsail areas

100%  320 sq. ft.
135%  430 sq. ft.
155%  500 sq. ft.

Even with a 100% jib, there is more sail area.  Even considering the boom
stretches the sail flatter, a headsail is still a lot of power.

I suppose one could discuss CE vs CR with the different configurations but
that is primary relevant with regard to pointing ability and weather helm
when close hauled.

I can't remember the last time I sailed Touche' with only the main.  I
sometimes used main only to get a little push when motor sailing very close
to the wind.

Guess I'm lazy but I tend to sail genoa only a good portion of my casual
sailing time.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 12:57 PM robert via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Interesting comments for sailing down wind..my preference is to sail
> with the main aloneleave the jib furled.my boat, a 32, feels
> better balanced, better control of the sail, the bow is not being pulled
> downward, better helm.
>
> Would I rather unfurl and furl a jib over hoisting and folding a main,
> you bet.but my boat preforms better with the main alone, or at the
> least, I think it does.
>
> Rob Abbott
> AZURA
> C 32 - #277
> Halifax, N.S.
>
>
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>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
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>
>
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Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Gentlemen may not sail to weather, but a wise sailor is probably not racing 
when there are gale warnings out…

 

A deep double reefed main and a small blade or storm headsail will get you to 
hull speed in those conditions, and greatly reduce the load on the rigging.

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie 
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 12:25 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

 

Agree with philosophy of not using main in heavy winds astern.  

 

OTOH, I wonder about the unbalanced forces on the stays/boat when a stern wind 
is 30+ knots even with some of

the 'telephone pole' masts on some C when only a head sail is flown.

 

Mine mast is rather bendy with check stays and in high winds downwind, in 
addition to keeping her under control, I admit to some fear of a gravity storm 
if I only used the head sail (or with both sails for that matter!).

 

Charlie Nelson

Water Phantom

C 36 XL/kcb

 

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Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

Agree. 

No better way to control sailing downwind than to sail with just the headsail 
and no main.

  The helm will tell you when the boat likes the sail setup.  You know it's 
right when you feel how easy she steers.


Chuck, Resolute, 1990 C 34R




> On March 19, 2019 at 9:37 AM "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> My boat would be on about her 10th mast if this was an issue for old C
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Joe Della Barba
> 
> Coquina
> 
> C 35 MK I
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 


 

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> 
> 


 
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Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

My boat would be on about her 10th mast if this was an issue for old C


Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C 35 MK I


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Re: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Interesting comments about sailing with jib (genoa) alone.

I tend to avoid DDW courses, if I could help it.

Personally, I find it easier, especially, when shorthanded, to gybe with both 
sails up (the jib is shadowed by the main and I claim that I have the manoeuvre 
of gybing the main reasonably well rehearsed).

I freely admit that I have problems gybing singlehanded with the jib alone when 
it is windy (25+). With two people (one at the helm, one at the sheet) it is 
not a problem, but single handed, I always have problems with the jib either 
trying to wrap around the forestay or flapping in the wind incessantly. I don’t 
have the autohelm to help.

Do you have some ideas how to do it correctly (or well)? On a couple of 
occasions I simply furled it in and unfurled on the other tack. But this is 
almost like a chicken gybe. Any ideas?

Marek
1994 C270 Legato
Ottawa, ON

From: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 12:26
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: Stus-List Headsail only in strong winds astern

Agree with philosophy of not using main in heavy winds astern.

OTOH, I wonder about the unbalanced forces on the stays/boat when a stern wind 
is 30+ knots even with some of
the 'telephone pole' masts on some C when only a head sail is flown.

Mine mast is rather bendy with check stays and in high winds downwind, in 
addition to keeping her under control, I admit to some fear of a gravity storm 
if I only used the head sail (or with both sails for that matter!).

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C 36 XL/kcb


-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Sent: Mon, Mar 18, 2019 12:09 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake

That too. We had an awesome run down the Severn with the wind blowing 55+ and 
ripping foam off the wavetops and throwing it up in the trees ashore. We didn’t 
even think about the main, the working jib alone gave us a steady 10-11 knots 
boatspeed. Everything was going great until we had to turn around and then 
discovered our speed under motor was about 0.5 knots!


Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C 35 MK I



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David via 
CnC-List
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 9:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: David 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Gybe preventer, now Boom Brake

Or leave the main down downwind.   Anytime it blowing hard enough to worry 
about jibing,  main is probably not going to add alot of speed, but will cause 
more helm and worry.

Jib alone is so simple.

David F. Risch, J. D.
Gulf Stream Associates, LLC
(401) 419-4650
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