Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

Hi Chuck- I think I have the drain fitting so it is not leaking.  It would be 
really nice when I want to do an oil change if I could hook up a vacuum pump to 
the brass fitting on the end of the hose to pump the oil out.  Have you seen 
anything that will do that?  My pump has nylon tubing and no end fittings and 
no way I can see to add a threaded attachment. Thanks- Dave

On Oct 27, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List  wrote:

> David,
> Bright light and a mirror.  Lay mirror under the pan and shine the light and 
> check for a leak.  It might be time for a new drain hose?
> 
> FYI, Mine came with the drain hose setup.  The hose has a nice brass ferrel 
> with plug.  The plug has a hole in it and that gets Tie-Wrapped to something 
> above the starboard  engine mount that has a hole in it.  Very secure.  I 
> added something similar to my lawn mower to ease changing the oil.  Sweet.
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C 34R
> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
> 
> From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" 
> To: "CnC CnC discussion list" 
> Cc: "David Knecht" 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 12:32:56 PM
> Subject: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30
> 
> I moved my boat to its winter home yesterday and then tried to change to oil 
> after I arrived. I had no issues along the way- engine stayed cool and ran 
> smoothly.  However, I got almost no oil out of the pan and the dipstick 
> showed it was below the low point.  I am thankful that this did not destroy 
> my engine but now have to figure out what to do.  I noticed some oil in the 
> bilge in the spring so cleaned up and put 2 oil absorbing sheets in the space 
> under the engine and one in the bilge.  My boat came from the PO with a hose 
> attached to the oil pan drain plug so I could remove the cap from the hose 
> and run a thin tube into the hose to suck the oil out. I thought that I had 
> not tightened the drain plug under the oil pan when I changed the oil last 
> year and thought that was the cause of the leak.   The pads under the engine 
> now have oil in them and I added a quart of oil to the engine a month ago 
> when I checked and it was low.  It is still possible that the drain is the 
> source of the leak, but the leak is slow enough that I am having trouble 
> verifying the actual site.  Has anyone had this problem with a Universal 
> M4-30 or similar engine?  Of course I am concerned that I might be burning 
> the oil, but the pads underneath with oil in them leads me to think it is a 
> leak.  Still, I am not sure I can account for several missing quarts of oil 
> in the pads.  Dave
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
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> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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> 
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> 

Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
Core Microscopy Facility Director
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200

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Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

David
I do exactly that on my M4-30. I use a small impeller drill pump.  First I
take the cap off the drain hose and feed the hose down lower towards the
base of the oil sump and then forward as far as it will reach to where I
attach the inlet hose to the drill pump directly to that drain hose, a snug
friction fit that holds the vacuum created by the drill pump, about 1/2
inch inside diameter hose to the pump. I put the outlet hose from the pump
into a 4 liter plastic used oil container.  ...always run the engine first
for several minutes to warm the oil which makes it flow easier...works real
good and before removing the filter I make a drain tray by shaping several
layers of old newspaper to fit neatly like a catch basin below the filter
to catch the oil that always escapes when the filter is removed.  That
newspaper catch tray and a few strategically placed rags effectively
catches the black used oil mess before it contaminates the bilge when
removing the filter and that makes for a neat clean oil change.  I also
cover the cabin sole with newspaper in the areas close to where I am
working just in case of spills and there always seem to be a few drops that
escape regardless of how careful I am with disconnecting and packing up my
drill pump gear for next time, and all that gear gets wrapped in old rags
and newspaper and stored double bag in plastic until next time.  I have
been doing my oil changes this way for years with the same gear and I think
I have pretty much perfected the process on my boat.

Dwight Veinot
C 35 MKII, *Alianna*
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 10:05 AM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Chuck- I think I have the drain fitting so it is not leaking.  It would
> be really nice when I want to do an oil change if I could hook up a vacuum
> pump to the brass fitting on the end of the hose to pump the oil out.  Have
> you seen anything that will do that?  My pump has nylon tubing and no end
> fittings and no way I can see to add a threaded attachment. Thanks- Dave
>
> On Oct 27, 2015, at 5:54 PM, Chuck S via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> David,
> Bright light and a mirror.  Lay mirror under the pan and shine the light
> and check for a leak.  It might be time for a new drain hose?
>
> FYI, Mine came with the drain hose setup.  The hose has a nice brass
> ferrel with plug.  The plug has a hole in it and that gets Tie-Wrapped to
> something above the starboard  engine mount that has a hole in it.  Very
> secure.  I added something similar to my lawn mower to ease changing the
> oil.  Sweet.
>
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C 34R
> Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md
>
> --
> *From: *"David Knecht via CnC-List" 
> *To: *"CnC CnC discussion list" 
> *Cc: *"David Knecht" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 27, 2015 12:32:56 PM
> *Subject: *Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30
>
> I moved my boat to its winter home yesterday and then tried to change to
> oil after I arrived. I had no issues along the way- engine stayed cool and
> ran smoothly.  However, I got almost no oil out of the pan and the dipstick
> showed it was below the low point.  I am thankful that this did not destroy
> my engine but now have to figure out what to do.  I noticed some oil in the
> bilge in the spring so cleaned up and put 2 oil absorbing sheets in the
> space under the engine and one in the bilge.  My boat came from the PO with
> a hose attached to the oil pan drain plug so I could remove the cap from
> the hose and run a thin tube into the hose to suck the oil out. I thought
> that I had not tightened the drain plug under the oil pan when I changed
> the oil last year and thought that was the cause of the leak.   The pads
> under the engine now have oil in them and I added a quart of oil to the
> engine a month ago when I checked and it was low.  It is still possible
> that the drain is the source of the leak, but the leak is slow enough that
> I am having trouble verifying the actual site.  Has anyone had this problem
> with a Universal M4-30 or similar engine?  Of course I am concerned that I
> might be burning the oil, but the pads underneath with oil in them leads me
> to think it is a leak.  Still, I am not sure I can account for several
> missing quarts of oil in the pads.  Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
> 
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
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>
>
> ___
>
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> bottom of page at:
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>
>
> Dr. David Knecht
> 

Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I had a chance to take a closer look at my oil leak the other day.  It appears 
to be coming from the drain attachment to the oil pan. I think it is between 
the oil pan and the drain, not the drain tube attachment.  However, I can’t see 
what the fitting looks like or how the whole thing is attached and sealed to 
the pan. Do I have to take the oil pan off to get to it, or does the drain 
fitting come off separately?  Does anyone have a picture of what the fitting 
looks like?  Thanks- Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

Hi David, 
Can you take a picture with your cell phone? 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
To: "CnC CnC discussion list" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: "David Knecht" <davidakne...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2015 11:15:57 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30 

I had a chance to take a closer look at my oil leak the other day. It appears 
to be coming from the drain attachment to the oil pan. I think it is between 
the oil pan and the drain, not the drain tube attachment. However, I can’t see 
what the fitting looks like or how the whole thing is attached and sealed to 
the pan. Do I have to take the oil pan off to get to it, or does the drain 
fitting come off separately? Does anyone have a picture of what the fitting 
looks like? Thanks- Dave 

Aries 
1990 C 34+ 
New London, CT 



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Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

In the oil or UNDER the pan. They can rust out from outside-in too.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 1:39 PM
To: C List
Cc: Gary Russell
Subject: Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

Consider the possibility that the oil pan has a pinhole rusted in it.  A small 
amount of salt water in the oil is all you need.

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:32 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I moved my boat to its winter home yesterday and then tried to change to oil 
after I arrived. I had no issues along the way- engine stayed cool and ran 
smoothly.  However, I got almost no oil out of the pan and the dipstick showed 
it was below the low point.  I am thankful that this did not destroy my engine 
but now have to figure out what to do.  I noticed some oil in the bilge in the 
spring so cleaned up and put 2 oil absorbing sheets in the space under the 
engine and one in the bilge.  My boat came from the PO with a hose attached to 
the oil pan drain plug so I could remove the cap from the hose and run a thin 
tube into the hose to suck the oil out. I thought that I had not tightened the 
drain plug under the oil pan when I changed the oil last year and thought that 
was the cause of the leak.   The pads under the engine now have oil in them and 
I added a quart of oil to the engine a month ago when I checked and it was low. 
 It is still possible that the drain is the source of the leak, but the leak is 
slow enough that I am having trouble verifying the actual site.  Has anyone had 
this problem with a Universal M4-30 or similar engine?  Of course I am 
concerned that I might be burning the oil, but the pads underneath with oil in 
them leads me to think it is a leak.  Still, I am not sure I can account for 
several missing quarts of oil in the pads.  Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D110BD.4CA01D00]


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Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

[Charlie Nelson via CnC-List]

A friend of mine recently got a double whammy because of an oil leak in the pan:
 
He was motoring down the ICW from his home port when the engine slowly died and 
would not start. 
Since he was heading for Cape Lookout, NC in July, he expected a lot of 
motoring so he had checked his oil level
before he left and it was OK.
 
Got a tow back to his slip and with his holiday plans messed up left the boat 
for home.(#1).
 
Came back and pumped his bilge out before he realized it was filled with oil 
(#2).
 
Paid ~ $1000 to marina for oil spill clean-up and his mechanic said his engine 
was seized, likely since it had zero oil in it.
 
Now looking at ~ $15000 to replace with a new Beta-38.
 
Moral: find the source of this leak and seal it before you do anything else, 
unless the boat is sinking from under you!

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
 
cenel...@aol.com

 
 
-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe <joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>
Sent: Tue, Oct 27, 2015 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30



In the oil or UNDER the pan. They can rust out from outside-in too.
 
Joe Della Barba
Coquina
 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 1:39 PM
To: C List
Cc: Gary Russell
Subject: Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30
 

Consider the possibility that the oil pan has a pinhole rusted in it.  A small 
amount of salt water in the oil is all you need.

 

Gary

S/V High Maintenance

'90 C 37 Plus

East Greenwich, RI, USA





~~~_/)~~

 

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:32 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

I moved my boat to its winter home yesterday and then tried to change to oil 
after I arrived. I had no issues along the way- engine stayed cool and ran 
smoothly.  However, I got almost no oil out of the pan and the dipstick showed 
it was below the low point.  I am thankful that this did not destroy my engine 
but now have to figure out what to do.  I noticed some oil in the bilge in the 
spring so cleaned up and put 2 oil absorbing sheets in the space under the 
engine and one in the bilge.  My boat came from the PO with a hose attached to 
the oil pan drain plug so I could remove the cap from the hose and run a thin 
tube into the hose to suck the oil out. I thought that I had not tightened the 
drain plug under the oil pan when I changed the oil last year and thought that 
was the cause of the leak.   The pads under the engine now have oil in them and 
I added a quart of oil to the engine a month ago when I checked and it was low. 
 It is still possible that the drain is the source of the leak, but the leak is 
slow enough that I am having trouble verifying the actual site.  Has anyone had 
this problem with a Universal M4-30 or similar engine?  Of course I am 
concerned that I might be burning the oil, but the pads underneath with oil in 
them leads me to think it is a leak.  Still, I am not sure I can account for 
several missing quarts of oil in the pads.  Dave

 


Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT




 


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Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

[Martin DeYoung via CnC-List]

My father-in-law toasted an engine owing to the pin hole oil pan leak issue. 
That plus he did not check the oil often enough.  The engine was +-35 yrs. old 
in a 80 yr. old classic wood powerboat.

Most engine manufacturers allow for the possibility of a small amount of lube 
oil consumption being “normal”.  Calypso’s 20 yr. old 2,000 hour 4-108 uses 
about ½ quart every 40 hours and leaks another ½ quart in the same time.  The 
leakage went up when I mistakenly used Delo 400 instead of the intended Delo 
100.  The difference seems to be the % of detergent with the 400 formulated for 
engines with turbochargers.  The extra detergent cleaned out all the goo that 
keeps the Perkins leaks to a minimum.

To reduce the risk of pin hole in the oil pan I change the oil after each 
season to reduce the amount of combustion related acids in the oil.  With salts 
from the outside and acids in the oil on the inside old oil pans don’t stand a 
chance.

The Perkins 4-108 also needs to have its valve cover bolts tightened from time 
to time.  That oil leak often shows first down the back of the cylinder head.

Martin DeYoung
Calypso
1971 C 43
Seattle

[Description: Description: Description: 
cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F]

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 10:39 AM
To: C List
Cc: Gary Russell
Subject: Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

Consider the possibility that the oil pan has a pinhole rusted in it.  A small 
amount of salt water in the oil is all you need.

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:32 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I moved my boat to its winter home yesterday and then tried to change to oil 
after I arrived. I had no issues along the way- engine stayed cool and ran 
smoothly.  However, I got almost no oil out of the pan and the dipstick showed 
it was below the low point.  I am thankful that this did not destroy my engine 
but now have to figure out what to do.  I noticed some oil in the bilge in the 
spring so cleaned up and put 2 oil absorbing sheets in the space under the 
engine and one in the bilge.  My boat came from the PO with a hose attached to 
the oil pan drain plug so I could remove the cap from the hose and run a thin 
tube into the hose to suck the oil out. I thought that I had not tightened the 
drain plug under the oil pan when I changed the oil last year and thought that 
was the cause of the leak.   The pads under the engine now have oil in them and 
I added a quart of oil to the engine a month ago when I checked and it was low. 
 It is still possible that the drain is the source of the leak, but the leak is 
slow enough that I am having trouble verifying the actual site.  Has anyone had 
this problem with a Universal M4-30 or similar engine?  Of course I am 
concerned that I might be burning the oil, but the pads underneath with oil in 
them leads me to think it is a leak.  Still, I am not sure I can account for 
several missing quarts of oil in the pads.  Dave

Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT

[Description: cid:image002.png@01D110A5.1E39D590]


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Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

Consider the possibility that the oil pan has a pinhole rusted in it.  A
small amount of salt water in the oil is all you need.

Gary
S/V High Maintenance
'90 C 37 Plus
East Greenwich, RI, USA

~~~_/)~~


On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:32 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I moved my boat to its winter home yesterday and then tried to change to
> oil after I arrived. I had no issues along the way- engine stayed cool and
> ran smoothly.  However, I got almost no oil out of the pan and the dipstick
> showed it was below the low point.  I am thankful that this did not destroy
> my engine but now have to figure out what to do.  I noticed some oil in the
> bilge in the spring so cleaned up and put 2 oil absorbing sheets in the
> space under the engine and one in the bilge.  My boat came from the PO with
> a hose attached to the oil pan drain plug so I could remove the cap from
> the hose and run a thin tube into the hose to suck the oil out. I thought
> that I had not tightened the drain plug under the oil pan when I changed
> the oil last year and thought that was the cause of the leak.   The pads
> under the engine now have oil in them and I added a quart of oil to the
> engine a month ago when I checked and it was low.  It is still possible
> that the drain is the source of the leak, but the leak is slow enough that
> I am having trouble verifying the actual site.  Has anyone had this problem
> with a Universal M4-30 or similar engine?  Of course I am concerned that I
> might be burning the oil, but the pads underneath with oil in them leads me
> to think it is a leak.  Still, I am not sure I can account for several
> missing quarts of oil in the pads.  Dave
>
> Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Email address:
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the
> bottom of page at:
> http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30

[Chuck S via CnC-List]

David, 
Bright light and a mirror. Lay mirror under the pan and shine the light and 
check for a leak. It might be time for a new drain hose? 

FYI, Mine came with the drain hose setup. The hose has a nice brass ferrel with 
plug. The plug has a hole in it and that gets Tie-Wrapped to something above 
the starboard engine mount that has a hole in it. Very secure. I added 
something similar to my lawn mower to ease changing the oil. Sweet. 

Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 C 34R 
Broad Creek, Magothy River, Md 

- Original Message -

From: "David Knecht via CnC-List"  
To: "CnC CnC discussion list"  
Cc: "David Knecht"  
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 12:32:56 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Oil leak in M4-30 

I moved my boat to its winter home yesterday and then tried to change to oil 
after I arrived. I had no issues along the way- engine stayed cool and ran 
smoothly. However, I got almost no oil out of the pan and the dipstick showed 
it was below the low point. I am thankful that this did not destroy my engine 
but now have to figure out what to do. I noticed some oil in the bilge in the 
spring so cleaned up and put 2 oil absorbing sheets in the space under the 
engine and one in the bilge. My boat came from the PO with a hose attached to 
the oil pan drain plug so I could remove the cap from the hose and run a thin 
tube into the hose to suck the oil out. I thought that I had not tightened the 
drain plug under the oil pan when I changed the oil last year and thought that 
was the cause of the leak. The pads under the engine now have oil in them and I 
added a quart of oil to the engine a month ago when I checked and it was low. 
It is still possible that the drain is the source of the leak, but the leak is 
slow enough that I am having trouble verifying the actual site. Has anyone had 
this problem with a Universal M4-30 or similar engine? Of course I am concerned 
that I might be burning the oil, but the pads underneath with oil in them leads 
me to think it is a leak. Still, I am not sure I can account for several 
missing quarts of oil in the pads. Dave 

Aries 
1990 C 34+ 
New London, CT 



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