Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-25 Thread CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
Agree. I've gone aground in panic situations and found that strong short 
thrusts with the engine got us off. I always try to back out straight but if 
she won't budge, I apply some rudder and try and spin her free, first in 
reverse, then forward. A burst of throttle in forward will hit the rudder and 
turn the boat. A burst of reverse helps push mud off the keel. It also helps to 
put crew on the bow to rock the keel free. I once got off by idling in reverse, 
setting the autohelm and joining the crew on the bow. She came free and backed 
off.

I remember one event where we entered a small creek off of the main inlet. The 
entrance to this creek changes slightly with each tide and current was running 
about four knots and the tide falling. The range here is 4.5 feet. I know boats 
who stranded at this spot and had to wait for a high tide to get off. This gave 
me great encouragement to try anything and everything before we too were 
stranded for six hours. Luckily we tried every trick including timing throttle 
up when a boat wake came along and were able to spin and power into deeper 
water.

It's great having tide charts that provide the estimated tide heights for any 
given day and I've used those to time my trips across shallow water and GPS to 
keep me in the channel. Tide charts showed me there are a few days each month 
when there is enough water in the back bay to get my boat to a marina fifteen 
miles inland. I ran that course ten times using the tables and only touched 
bottom once when I got a little off the magenta line. Just good planning. I 
know skippers of shoal draft boats who have suffered because they didn't 
consult the tables and wound up aboard a boat leaning forty five degrees for 
many hours waiting for the next tide.


> On April 25, 2019 at 10:09 AM "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Buddy of mine is a salvor.  He got called to free a 48 footer stuck on a 
> shoal a few years ago.  He showed up at high tide with all his air lift bags 
> and gear.  He got on the boat, put the boat in full reverse, hit the bow 
> thruster alternating port and starboard.  After a couple minutes of wiggling 
> the bow back and forth, the boat backed off the shoal.  Never used the 
> salvage equipment.
> 
> Similar to the trick with a dinghy pushing on the bow.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
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> 
 
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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-25 Thread Charlie Nelson via CnC-List
Thanks for all the replies--and I agree that throwing a kedge anchor is not 
very practical. 
OTOH, without a dinghy or other anchor 'float', getting any anchor out with any 
scope for it to set is problematic. With a delivery crew of 2, hanging on the 
boom is the same--little effect. 
Ideal is to avoid shoals and other confusion on the water--such as mistaking a 
private channel entrance for government floating marks in the glaring low angle 
bright sun! However, near the New River inlet, even the government marks can't 
keep up with the shoaling changes.
As others have mentioned, just getting the bow turned slightly via some 
horizontal pull, can often get the boat going toward deeper water. 
With my centerboard, I leave it down about 6 inches which helps sometimes. 
However, once the centerboard trunk is solidly on the bottom, its width and 
length provides a solid resting place especially if the shoal is hit at speed. 
My Beta 28 combined with a Gori 2-blade folding prop doesn't provide a lot of 
punch in these situations.
Oh well, there is always TowBoatUS!
Charlie NelsonWater Phantom36XL/kcb #77



-Original Message-
From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Sent: Thu, Apr 25, 2019 10:10 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

Buddy of mine is a salvor.  He got called to free a 48 footer stuck on a shoal 
a few years ago.  He showed up at high tide with all his air lift bags and 
gear.  He got on the boat, put the boat in full reverse, hit the bow thruster 
alternating port and starboard.  After a couple minutes of wiggling the bow 
back and forth, the boat backed off the shoal.  Never used the salvage 
equipment.
Similar to the trick with a dinghy pushing on the bow.
Dennis C.Touche' 35-1 #83Mandeville, 
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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-25 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List
Buddy of mine is a salvor.  He got called to free a 48 footer stuck on a
shoal a few years ago.  He showed up at high tide with all his air lift
bags and gear.  He got on the boat, put the boat in full reverse, hit the
bow thruster alternating port and starboard.  After a couple minutes of
wiggling the bow back and forth, the boat backed off the shoal.  Never used
the salvage equipment.

Similar to the trick with a dinghy pushing on the bow.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-25 Thread Gary Nylander via CnC-List
Our system, when running into mud in Georgia, (on a 36 foot motorsailor with
Sheel Keel), was to drop the dinghy, take a main halyard and small anchor,
take it way out sideways to stabilize the boat, and then wait 5 hours for
the tide to go out and come back up. Boat got way over, undamaged, and when
afloat again, we merrily continued on our way. The fat Sheel Keel does NOT
lend itself to being powered backwards, even with about 80 hp and a 23 inch
prop.

I managed to bury a Bermuda 40 about 100 yards from its dock after a race
here on the Miles River while being "guest skipper". The board was up and it
took all the tricks - heel, weight forward, crew hanging on boom, windless
with anchor, and motor. Still didn't work. A curious guy in a 20 foot power
boat came by and we talked him into taking our anchor way out. Then, all the
other tricks did actually work. 

On the Chesapeake, if you haven't run aground, you have been faking it.
Gary
St. Michaels MD

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Joe Della Barba
via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 9:26 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Joe Della Barba 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

Our ICW system worked as follows:

1. Run aground

2. Everyone off the boat, swim around and find the deep water.

3. Everyone back on and all but one sit on the boom.

4. Swing the boom out, heel over, and head towards area found in step 2.

Joe

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I


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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-25 Thread Joe Della Barba via CnC-List

Our ICW system worked as follows:

1. Run aground

2. Everyone off the boat, swim around and find the deep water.

3. Everyone back on and all but one sit on the boom.

4. Swing the boom out, heel over, and head towards area found in step 2.

Joe

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I


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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-25 Thread Joe Della Barba via CnC-List
This is the issue.I have a Fortress 16 and it makes a great kedging 
anchor. I usually set it out about 100-150 feet from the boat. There is 
no way I know of to kedge by throwing an anchor, you have to swim or row 
it out.


Joe

Coquina

C&C 35 MK I

On 4/24/2019 10:33 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote:
I'm not convinced you can throw an anchor far enough to kedge.  You 
wouldn't have a lot of scope and you'd be pulling up rather than 
horizontally.


I've always thought that kedging was best accomplished by hauling an 
anchor well away from the boat with a dinghy or floating it out on a PFD.


I was on an old LST in the Navy.  After we beached the ship bow first, 
we would lower a stern anchor down and tie it to a couple of large 
timbers tied between two Higgins Papa boats.  (A Papa boat is the one 
usually shown in Marine storming the beach films where the ramp drops 
down and the Marines charge ashore.)  The Papa boats would carry the 
anchor out a hundred yards or so and a bosun mate would cut the line 
with an axe.  Then we'd pull the ship off the beach with the stern 
anchor.  Now THAT's kedging.


Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 8:35 PM Charles Nelson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


I recently moved my boat from CRW to New Bern, NC via the ICW.
Several times we ran aground either because skipper error or
shifting shoals that are impossible to keep up with unless you
sail in them often.

Not surprisingly our Fortress 11 was pretty useless in grabbing
the bottom when thrown as far as I could manage! They need to be
dropped and then backed down on to grab the bottom--pulling them
in after a toss just doesn't allow them to properly set.

My crew suggested I get about a 5 lb. danforth that can be thrown
pretty far but that will set better than a Fortress that tends to
skip along the bottom in those circumstances.

My question for the list is what 'throwable' anchor for this
situation would you recommend?

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C 36XL/kcb
See situations would you recommends?











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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-25 Thread schiller via CnC-List

Chuck,

We got ourselves stuck in soft sand in the Black River (South Haven, 
Michigan) during the low water time on Lake Michigan.  We tried most of 
the easy things to get off with no luck.  A power boat came up and offer 
to pull us off and we were gathering lines for that when a guy came up 
in a small inflatable and said he would get us off.  We doubted it but 
he moved the dingy around under the bow of our Redwing 35 and gave the 
throttle a goose and the boat rose up and moved right off the sand bar.  
He said that he does this all the time (the Black River has a fairy 
narrow channel with lots of moving sediment).  If you have a dingy with 
you try that before hauling anchors around.


Neil Schiller
1983 C&C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Crosswinds Marine, Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC
Launch Date: 3 May

On 4/24/2019 11:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:

Hi Charlie,
never thought I could throw an anchor far enough to work as a kedge.

I've run aground many times with our old 7'4" fin keel, and our newer 
6' 3" fin keel. The advantage of a fin is that when you do hit bottom, 
you remain very upright. And the fin presents so little area that we 
we usually just back out or spin off. The rudder is only 5' deep so we 
can usually just spin around and power out of the shallows. In fifteen 
years owning the boat, the longest I've been stuck aground was 45 
minutes. My son and I had dinner waiting for the tide to float us off 
in a very narrow channel.


I wonder if a better way to get off is to run a dinghy out from the 
side of the boat and tug on a halyard. That would heel the boat and 
reduce your draft a great deal and help you power off.


I've never tried it, but I bought a diver's lift bag that is meant to 
lift 1000# using air. My intention was to tie it to a halyard run 
through the boom end, swing that out as far as possible and lower it 
into the water to gather weight and haul it up to heel the boat. That 
should create enough heel to reduce my draft by two feet, so I can 
motor off.


Opinion: The Fortress anchors are very cool and well engineered and 
light, but I gave mine away after seeing how difficult they are to 
set. I presently have a Delta on the bow, and two old Danforths as 
backups stowed below.


Chuck, Resolute, 1990 C&C 34/36R
On April 24, 2019 at 9:34 PM Charles Nelson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:



I recently moved my boat from CRW to New Bern, NC via the ICW. 
Several times we ran aground either because skipper error or shifting 
shoals that are impossible to keep up with unless you sail in them often.


Not surprisingly our Fortress 11 was pretty useless in grabbing the 
bottom when thrown as far as I could manage! They need to be dropped 
and then backed down on to grab the bottom--pulling them in after a 
toss just doesn't allow them to properly set.


My crew suggested I get about a 5 lb. danforth that can be thrown 
pretty far but that will set better than a Fortress that tends to 
skip along the bottom in those circumstances.


My question for the list is what 'throwable' anchor for this 
situation would you recommend?


Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C 36XL/kcb
See situations would you recommends?











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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-24 Thread CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
Hi Charlie,
never thought I could throw an anchor far enough to work as a kedge.

I've run aground many times with our old 7'4" fin keel, and our newer 6' 3" fin 
keel. The advantage of a fin is that when you do hit bottom, you remain very 
upright. And the fin presents so little area that we we usually just back out 
or spin off. The rudder is only 5' deep so we can usually just spin around and 
power out of the shallows. In fifteen years owning the boat, the longest I've 
been stuck aground was 45 minutes. My son and I had dinner waiting for the tide 
to float us off in a very narrow channel.

I wonder if a better way to get off is to run a dinghy out from the side of the 
boat and tug on a halyard. That would heel the boat and reduce your draft a 
great deal and help you power off.

I've never tried it, but I bought a diver's lift bag that is meant to lift 
1000# using air. My intention was to tie it to a halyard run through the boom 
end, swing that out as far as possible and lower it into the water to gather 
weight and haul it up to heel the boat. That should create enough heel to 
reduce my draft by two feet, so I can motor off.

Opinion: The Fortress anchors are very cool and well engineered and light, but 
I gave mine away after seeing how difficult they are to set. I presently have a 
Delta on the bow, and two old Danforths as backups stowed below.

Chuck, Resolute, 1990 C&C 34/36R

> On April 24, 2019 at 9:34 PM Charles Nelson via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> 
> I recently moved my boat from CRW to New Bern, NC via the ICW. Several 
> times we ran aground either because skipper error or shifting shoals that are 
> impossible to keep up with unless you sail in them often.
> 
> Not surprisingly our Fortress 11 was pretty useless in grabbing the 
> bottom when thrown as far as I could manage! They need to be dropped and then 
> backed down on to grab the bottom--pulling them in after a toss just doesn't 
> allow them to properly set.
> 
> My crew suggested I get about a 5 lb. danforth that can be thrown pretty 
> far but that will set better than a Fortress that tends to skip along the 
> bottom in those circumstances.
> 
> My question for the list is what 'throwable' anchor for this situation 
> would you recommend?
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> 1995 C&C 36XL/kcb
> See situations would you recommends?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPadthrown
> 
> ___
> 
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> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-24 Thread Rick Brass via CnC-List
Dennis;

 

I thought that the process on an LST was to drop the kedge anchor on the way 
into the shore so it was in place already when you wanted to get the h#ll out 
of Dodge after unloading the grunts.

 

Charlie;

 

My kedge anchor/lunch hook is a Fortress FX25 on 30 feet of chain on a nylon 
rode. And I took it out with the dinghy and dropped it on the only occasion I 
actually needed it.

 

For ICW passages I keep a copy of Active Captain running on an iPad near the 
helm. The hazard warnings are pretty much up to date, with the latest info 
updated every few days. Another source is to look at the Salty Southeast 
Cruisers’ Net for an upcoming segment on the night before you do a passage. You 
can also find ACE and USCG surveys for most of the problem stretches.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 10:33 PM
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

 

I'm not convinced you can throw an anchor far enough to kedge.  You wouldn't 
have a lot of scope and you'd be pulling up rather than horizontally.  

 

I've always thought that kedging was best accomplished by hauling an anchor 
well away from the boat with a dinghy or floating it out on a PFD.

 

I was on an old LST in the Navy.  After we beached the ship bow first, we would 
lower a stern anchor down and tie it to a couple of large timbers tied between 
two Higgins Papa boats.  (A Papa boat is the one usually shown in Marine 
storming the beach films where the ramp drops down and the Marines charge 
ashore.)  The Papa boats would carry the anchor out a hundred yards or so and a 
bosun mate would cut the line with an axe.  Then we'd pull the ship off the 
beach with the stern anchor.  Now THAT's kedging.

 

Dennis C.

Touche' 35-1 #83

Mandeville, LA

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 8:35 PM Charles Nelson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I recently moved my boat from CRW to New Bern, NC via the ICW. Several times we 
ran aground either because skipper error or shifting shoals that are impossible 
to keep up with unless you sail in them often.

Not surprisingly our Fortress 11 was pretty useless in grabbing the bottom when 
thrown as far as I could manage! They need to be dropped and then backed down 
on to grab the bottom--pulling them in after a toss just doesn't allow them to 
properly set.

My crew suggested I get about a 5 lb. danforth that can be thrown pretty far 
but that will set better than a Fortress that tends to skip along the bottom in 
those circumstances.

My question for the list is what 'throwable' anchor for this situation would 
you recommend?

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C 36XL/kcb
See situations would you recommends?











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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-24 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List
I am with Dennis on that. I don’t believe there is an anchor that you can throw 
by hand far enough to use for kedging.

I have been in a similar situation (very long time ago) and we used a PFD and 
some floor planks to ferry the anchor far enough to get us off the shoal (a 
number of times, way too many for my liking). Even with the help of that 
jerry-rigged platform it wasn’t an easy thing.

Marek

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Dennis C. via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 22:33
To: CnClist 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

I'm not convinced you can throw an anchor far enough to kedge.  You wouldn't 
have a lot of scope and you'd be pulling up rather than horizontally.

I've always thought that kedging was best accomplished by hauling an anchor 
well away from the boat with a dinghy or floating it out on a PFD.

I was on an old LST in the Navy.  After we beached the ship bow first, we would 
lower a stern anchor down and tie it to a couple of large timbers tied between 
two Higgins Papa boats.  (A Papa boat is the one usually shown in Marine 
storming the beach films where the ramp drops down and the Marines charge 
ashore.)  The Papa boats would carry the anchor out a hundred yards or so and a 
bosun mate would cut the line with an axe.  Then we'd pull the ship off the 
beach with the stern anchor.  Now THAT's kedging.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 8:35 PM Charles Nelson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I recently moved my boat from CRW to New Bern, NC via the ICW. Several times we 
ran aground either because skipper error or shifting shoals that are impossible 
to keep up with unless you sail in them often.

Not surprisingly our Fortress 11 was pretty useless in grabbing the bottom when 
thrown as far as I could manage! They need to be dropped and then backed down 
on to grab the bottom--pulling them in after a toss just doesn't allow them to 
properly set.

My crew suggested I get about a 5 lb. danforth that can be thrown pretty far 
but that will set better than a Fortress that tends to skip along the bottom in 
those circumstances.

My question for the list is what 'throwable' anchor for this situation would 
you recommend?

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C 36XL/kcb
See situations would you recommends?











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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-24 Thread John Conklin via CnC-List
Welcome back Charlie ! Sorry I have only touched a bit in Whittaker creek so no 
kedging yet. But I do have the danforth in the lazzarette  so following along.  
See you in Oriental,  any plans to swing by for a few Wed nights?

John Conklin 
S/V Halcyon 

> On Apr 24, 2019, at 9:34 PM, Charles Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> I recently moved my boat from CRW to New Bern, NC via the ICW. Several times 
> we ran aground either because skipper error or shifting shoals that are 
> impossible to keep up with unless you sail in them often.
> 
> Not surprisingly our Fortress 11 was pretty useless in grabbing the bottom 
> when thrown as far as I could manage! They need to be dropped and then backed 
> down on to grab the bottom--pulling them in after a toss just doesn't allow 
> them to properly set.
> 
> My crew suggested I get about a 5 lb. danforth that can be thrown pretty far 
> but that will set better than a Fortress that tends to skip along the bottom 
> in those circumstances.
> 
> My question for the list is what 'throwable' anchor for this situation would 
> you recommend?
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> 1995 C&C 36XL/kcb
> See situations would you recommends?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPadthrown
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
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Re: Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-24 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List
I'm not convinced you can throw an anchor far enough to kedge.  You
wouldn't have a lot of scope and you'd be pulling up rather than
horizontally.

I've always thought that kedging was best accomplished by hauling an anchor
well away from the boat with a dinghy or floating it out on a PFD.

I was on an old LST in the Navy.  After we beached the ship bow first, we
would lower a stern anchor down and tie it to a couple of large timbers
tied between two Higgins Papa boats.  (A Papa boat is the one usually shown
in Marine storming the beach films where the ramp drops down and the
Marines charge ashore.)  The Papa boats would carry the anchor out a
hundred yards or so and a bosun mate would cut the line with an axe.  Then
we'd pull the ship off the beach with the stern anchor.  Now THAT's kedging.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA



On Wed, Apr 24, 2019, 8:35 PM Charles Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I recently moved my boat from CRW to New Bern, NC via the ICW. Several
> times we ran aground either because skipper error or shifting shoals that
> are impossible to keep up with unless you sail in them often.
>
> Not surprisingly our Fortress 11 was pretty useless in grabbing the bottom
> when thrown as far as I could manage! They need to be dropped and then
> backed down on to grab the bottom--pulling them in after a toss just
> doesn't allow them to properly set.
>
> My crew suggested I get about a 5 lb. danforth that can be thrown pretty
> far but that will set better than a Fortress that tends to skip along the
> bottom in those circumstances.
>
> My question for the list is what 'throwable' anchor for this situation
> would you recommend?
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> 1995 C&C 36XL/kcb
> See situations would you recommends?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPadthrown
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Stus-List 'Kedging anchor' for ICW

2019-04-24 Thread Charles Nelson via CnC-List
I recently moved my boat from CRW to New Bern, NC via the ICW. Several times we 
ran aground either because skipper error or shifting shoals that are impossible 
to keep up with unless you sail in them often.

Not surprisingly our Fortress 11 was pretty useless in grabbing the bottom when 
thrown as far as I could manage! They need to be dropped and then backed down 
on to grab the bottom--pulling them in after a toss just doesn't allow them to 
properly set.

My crew suggested I get about a 5 lb. danforth that can be thrown pretty far 
but that will set better than a Fortress that tends to skip along the bottom in 
those circumstances.

My question for the list is what 'throwable' anchor for this situation would 
you recommend?

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
1995 C&C 36XL/kcb
See situations would you recommends?











Sent from my iPadthrown

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray