Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Do not do this. Users will be very frustrated when they cannot interact with that button. Why do you think you need this? Sent from my iPhone On Jan 12, 2009, at 5:55 AM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I'd like to create a disabled button that looks like enabled. If I just set enabled to no, I got grayed button. Instead I do [[theButton cell] setHighlightsBy:NSNoCellMask]; and it looks like disabled but continues to receive events. Is there a way to make a disabled button that looks like enabled? Thanks in advance! Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/rsharp%40mac.com This email sent to rsh...@mac.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
I agree with Ricky. Why do you need this? By the way, think the better way is to subclass the NSButton, overriding the -mouseDown method. Do not call -[super mouseDown:], and it's done - your button will not be drawed. -- Luca C. On 12 Jan 09, at 13:46, Ricky Sharp wrote: Do not do this. Users will be very frustrated when they cannot interact with that button. Why do you think you need this? Sent from my iPhone On Jan 12, 2009, at 5:55 AM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I'd like to create a disabled button that looks like enabled. If I just set enabled to no, I got grayed button. Instead I do [[theButton cell] setHighlightsBy:NSNoCellMask]; and it looks like disabled but continues to receive events. Is there a way to make a disabled button that looks like enabled? Thanks in advance! Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/rsharp%40mac.com This email sent to rsh...@mac.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/luca.pazzerello%40gmail.com This email sent to luca.pazzere...@gmail.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
I again forgot that reply button reply to sender not to the list, crazy lists.apple.com! Here is my answer to Ricky: The button should be disabled by design. It don't intend to interact with a user at all. Cocoa Developers cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Luca luca.pazzere...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with Ricky. Why do you need this? By the way, think the better way is to subclass the NSButton, overriding the -mouseDown method. Do not call -[super mouseDown:], and it's done - your button will not be drawed. -- Luca C. On 12 Jan 09, at 13:46, Ricky Sharp wrote: Do not do this. Users will be very frustrated when they cannot interact with that button. Why do you think you need this? Sent from my iPhone On Jan 12, 2009, at 5:55 AM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi! I'd like to create a disabled button that looks like enabled. If I just set enabled to no, I got grayed button. Instead I do [[theButton cell] setHighlightsBy:NSNoCellMask]; and it looks like disabled but continues to receive events. Is there a way to make a disabled button that looks like enabled? Thanks in advance! Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/rsharp%40mac.com This email sent to rsh...@mac.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/luca.pazzerello%40gmail.com This email sent to luca.pazzere...@gmail.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/lprpro%40gmail.com This email sent to lpr...@gmail.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: I again forgot that reply button reply to sender not to the list, crazy lists.apple.com! Here is my answer to Ricky: The button should be disabled by design. It don't intend to interact with a user at all. This is exactly the point Ricky was making. If a button never works *by design*, a button is the wrong choice for a UI element ... unless, of course, you're creating some sort of UI mockup generator app or something similar that merely draws representations of OS X UI elements. Then again, it wouldn't matter whether the button does anything or not since it'd not be clickable anyway. To answer your question, though, you'd need to override the button's drawing to always draw the enabled state, ignoring the control's actual state. Or, you could let the button allow clicking and simply do nothing. Then it wouldn't appear as broken as if it appeared enabled and didn't even accept a click. The thing to consider is that a user encountering such a control will assume your application is buggy because it doesn't behave properly. If you explain what your *goal* is (as you've been asked to twice already), maybe the community can suggest a much better approach you hadn't considered. -- I.S. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
The button should be disabled by design. It don't intend to interact with a user at all. This is exactly the point Ricky was making. If a button never works *by design*, a button is the wrong choice for a UI element I don't like to discuss ideological part of the thing, I ask only about a technical implementation. you'd need to override the button's drawing to always draw the enabled state, ignoring the control's actual state. Too dirty solution. Or, you could let the button allow clicking and simply do nothing. As I already did and asked about more beautiful ways. If there is no more beautiful way -- not a big problem. Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: you'd need to override the button's drawing to always draw the enabled state, ignoring the control's actual state. Too dirty solution. :-D That's immensely entertaining. -- I.S. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Jan 12, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Donnie Lee wrote: The button should be disabled by design. It don't intend to interact with a user at all. This is exactly the point Ricky was making. If a button never works *by design*, a button is the wrong choice for a UI element I don't like to discuss ideological part of the thing, I ask only about a technical implementation. you'd need to override the button's drawing to always draw the enabled state, ignoring the control's actual state. Too dirty solution. What's dirty about it? Note that as soon as you call a solution dirty you're dangerously close to discussing ideology. You defined the problem as wanting a button that is disabled but looks enabled. You yourself said you want the button to draw as if it were enabled despite the fact that it is disabled. The above solution basically echoes your exact requirements, so if it is dirty, then your application design must also be dirty. Why is it not dirty to present a button whose appearance is a lie? As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish? What is the usage scenario you are trying to achieve, and what is its purpose? If you want a better answer (and there may not be one), you need to provide more context. --Andy Or, you could let the button allow clicking and simply do nothing. As I already did and asked about more beautiful ways. If there is no more beautiful way -- not a big problem. Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/aglee%40mac.com This email sent to ag...@mac.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish? I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button :))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and more???!!! Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Then simply subclass NSButton, add an ivar called fakeEnabled, then
override the mouseDown and mouseUp events to do the following:
-(void)mouseDown:(NSEvent*)event{
if (fakeEnabled==NO){
[super mouseDown:event];
}
}
Do the same for mouseUp, and just have a getter and setter for
fakeEnabled. Voilà: a button that always looks enabled but can be set
to respond only part of the time.
Dave
Sent from my iPod
On Jan 12, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote:
As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish?
I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button
:))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and
more???!!!
Donnie.
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Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Jan 12, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Donnie Lee wrote: As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish? I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button :))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and more???!!! Because, frankly, that doesn't make any sense (to put it nicely), and they're asking WHY you want to do that in anticipation of giving you a better solution. They've given you a great answer, which you've rebuffed, and now you're scolding them for *continuing* to try to help you. Not exactly the Dale Carnegie method... ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
That's not better than my way. I never need to handle events from this button. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Dave DeLong davedel...@me.com wrote: Then simply subclass NSButton, add an ivar called fakeEnabled, then override the mouseDown and mouseUp events to do the following: ... Do the same for mouseUp, and just have a getter and setter for fakeEnabled. Voilà: a button that always looks enabled but can be set to respond only part of the time. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Maybe people ask because they're trying to help? Maybe you will first think your head before ask your questions? Your questions CAN'T help to solve my problem, so please don't flood in list. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button :))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and more???!!! Seriously? A solution has already been handed to you - one which you rejected because it doesn't meet with your own ideals - that will do exactly as you asked. Professionals with a long history of providing good guidance on this list are asking this question repeatedly because what you are doing has a 95% chance of being completely and utterly bone-headed, though everybody who responded was heretofore careful to word that point gently*. Your response to this concern, however, seems to include an insult (so easy to understand). Surely you didn't intend to insult those who helped you, so it's probably best to either graciously accept the suggested solution (which seems 'dirty' because you're working hard to purposefully break an interactive control) and leave the conversation at that OR you could try actively participating in the discussion, rather than demanding that others serve you on your terms or shut up. Just a thought. -- I.S. * Though patience is a virtue, it is in limited supply. First come, first served. Limit one serving per thread. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything? In that case, just don't hook the button's action up to anything... Dave Sent from my iPod On Jan 12, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: That's not better than my way. I never need to handle events from this button. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Dave DeLong davedel...@me.com wrote: Then simply subclass NSButton, add an ivar called fakeEnabled, then override the mouseDown and mouseUp events to do the following: ... Do the same for mouseUp, and just have a getter and setter for fakeEnabled. Voilà: a button that always looks enabled but can be set to respon d only part of the time. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/davedelong%40me.com This email sent to davedel...@me.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
RE: Disabled button looks like enabled
Why not just create a picture of an enabled button (say, a JPG) and display that? If you need text, you can create a blank button and put a label over it which you can then change...etc... If you don't need a button in the traditional sense, why carry all that overhead with you in the app? BTW, the accomplishment question was asked in the general sense, not the specific sense. That way the gurus can possibly provide you with a better way. Peace, Love, and Light, /s/ Jon C. Munson II -Original Message- From: cocoa-dev-bounces+jmunson=his@lists.apple.com [mailto:cocoa-dev-bounces+jmunson=his@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Lee Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:21 PM To: Cocoa Developers Subject: Re: Disabled button looks like enabled As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish? I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button :))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and more???!!! Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/jmunson%40his.com This email sent to jmun...@his.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: That's not better than my way. ... Maybe you will first think your head before ask your questions? Your questions CAN'T help to solve my problem, so please don't flood in list. Ugh ... READ: http://www.slash7.com/pages/vampires -- I.S. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Donnie Lee wrote: Maybe people ask because they're trying to help? Maybe you will first think your head before ask your questions? Your questions CAN'T help to solve my problem, so please don't flood in list. Please don't reply to me on the list when I've specifically said I was replying off-list. Are you just trolling? Because here you are flooding the list when I replied off-list. --Andy ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: As others have already asked: what are you trying to accomplish? I try to create a disabled button that looks like enabled button :))) It's so easy to understand, why do you ask more more and more???!!! Because, to be blunt, it appears that you're trying to do something stupid, and the people on this list are trying to help you find a better way to do whatever it is that you're trying to do. Analogy: someone writes to a carpenter group complaining that they're having trouble driving nails with their forehead. Of course the carpenters are aghast. Half of them say, use a hammer! The other half ask, why are you trying to drive nails with your forehead? You're trying to drive nails with your forehead. Of course people are going to ask why. If you want to have a productive discussion, simply explain why you insist on driving them with your forehead instead of with a hammer. If you have a good reason that nobody thought of, everybody will go home happy. If, as seems much more likely, you don't actually have a good reason, then we can explain to you the error of your ways and then everybody will go home happy. Mike ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything? Exactly. In that case, just don't hook the button's action up to anything... Already did it, just tried to remove this button from system observers to save system resources putting it in disabled state. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
You read too much Tolkien. It's hard to me to trace which messages sent to list and which is not because crazy lists.apple.com software didn't provide reply-to field and I enter to address manually. PS: Now only reply to all button. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Andy Lee ag...@mac.com wrote: On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:34 PM, Donnie Lee wrote: Maybe people ask because they're trying to help? Maybe you will first think your head before ask your questions? Your questions CAN'T help to solve my problem, so please don't flood in list. Please don't reply to me on the list when I've specifically said I was replying off-list. Are you just trolling? Because here you are flooding the list when I replied off-list. --Andy ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Because, to be blunt, it appears that you're trying to do something stupid, and the people on this list are trying to help you find a better way to do whatever it is that you're trying to do. The main problem that people think that I try something stupid. Instead of technical discussion they try to teach me what should I do and how should I do it. Like a religious zombies, seriously. Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
More often than not, optimizing a user's experience should be the larger concern than worrying about an NSButton's memory footprint. -rob. On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Donnie Lee wrote: So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything? Exactly. In that case, just don't hook the button's action up to anything... Already did it, just tried to remove this button from system observers to save system resources putting it in disabled state. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/rob%40pinchmedia.com This email sent to r...@pinchmedia.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
But it will still visually respond to mouse clicks, which is not desired, in my interpretation of the problem statement. [[theButton cell] setHighlightsBy:NSNoCellMask] presumably takes care of that -- but then the user might still be able to select the button by tabbing to it. If a single NSButton is used, I think the easiest thing is to disable it and then override its drawing behavior, as I. Savant suggested. But it depends on the context of what the application is trying to do. If the application displays a screenful of different fake UI components (for example, as a sort of mockup, as I.S. posited), it would be impractical to have a subclass for every control/cell. In that case, some sort of offscreen drawing makes sense -- draw the whole window/view offscreen, not even bothering to disable the controls, and blit it to the real window. --Andy On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Dave DeLong wrote: So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything? In that case, just don't hook the button's action up to anything... Dave Sent from my iPod On Jan 12, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: That's not better than my way. I never need to handle events from this button. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Dave DeLong davedel...@me.com wrote: Then simply subclass NSButton, add an ivar called fakeEnabled, then override the mouseDown and mouseUp events to do the following: ... Do the same for mouseUp, and just have a getter and setter for fakeEnabled. Voilà: a button that always looks enabled but can be set to respond only part of the time. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/davedelong%40me.com This email sent to davedel...@me.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/aglee%40mac.com This email sent to ag...@mac.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On 12 Jan 2009, at 18:54:19, Donnie Lee wrote: You read too much Tolkien. It's hard to me to trace which messages sent to list and which is not because crazy lists.apple.com software didn't provide reply-to field and I enter to address manually. PS: Now only reply to all button. Ever heard of Rules? Any recipient contains: cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com Move message to mailbox: Cocoa Dev Simple, eh? ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
There is a reason *why* disabled buttons have a different appearance. The members of this list are curious as to why you would want to override that. And yes, if you don't have a good reason they will certainly point that out. -rob. On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Donnie Lee wrote: Because, to be blunt, it appears that you're trying to do something stupid, and the people on this list are trying to help you find a better way to do whatever it is that you're trying to do. The main problem that people think that I try something stupid. Instead of technical discussion they try to teach me what should I do and how should I do it. Like a religious zombies, seriously. Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/rob%40pinchmedia.com This email sent to r...@pinchmedia.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Le 12 janv. 09 à 20:24, Donnie Lee a écrit : I am curious to know more about theses system observers. Can you explain us what is it ? Cocoa observers which sends mouse events, keyboard events etc. Hardware event are received by the kernel that send them to the window server that forward them to the active application. Then NSApplication receive them and send them to the key window (or the target window which is not always the key window for mouse events). Then the window object try to resolve the target responder. Each NSView is a responder. I really don't understand how you're trying to reduce system resource usage. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
There is a reason *why* disabled buttons have a different appearance. The members of this list are curious as to why you would want to override that. And yes, if you don't have a good reason they will certainly point that out. I see there is unavoidable problem with my fake button and Accessibility tools which may happens. I planned to use it to emulate gradient bottom bar (under Source List control), looks like in Mail.app. I created three buttons, two gradient action-buttons and one gradient non-clickable button with image aligned to right. This image is a three lines which act as additionalEffectiveRectOfDividerAtIndex: of NSSplitView. It looks really nice but the fact that is a button...can it hurt people with Accessibility devices? Really, I don't like all these additional libraries that try to emulate gradient bottom bar, because they redraw these controls by itself, and I would like to use only Apple controls. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Then the window object try to resolve the target responder. Each NSView is a responder. I really don't understand how you're trying to reduce system resource usage. Hmm, I don't know internals of Cocoa, I hypothesized that putting a button in a disabled state can remove focus areas handled by mouse or something else, which can save a little system resources without big pain. Are you 100% sure that disabled and enabled buttons takes identical amount of system resources? Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: I am curious to know more about theses system observers. Can you explain us what is it ? Cocoa observers which sends mouse events, keyboard events etc. You should probably read this: http://developer.apple.com/DOCUMENTATION/Cocoa/Conceptual/EventOverview/EventArchitecture/chapter_2_section_2.html# ... you appear to be misunderstanding how events are handled. -- I.S. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
I'll also point out that this will work for any NSButton flavor
(checkboxes, help, recessed, etc). I just did some further testing to
make sure that these buttons refuse the focus, and they definitely
don't accept being first responder. I created an interface with a
bunch of normal buttons, wired up the nextKeyView to be sequential,
and then wired the last of the normal buttons to the first of the
FakeButtons. (I also wired the first normal button to be
initialFirstResponder). I turned on full access in SysPrefs, then ran
the app.
Hitting the tab button will ONLY tab through the normal buttons. Even
though one of the FakeButtons is wired to be the nextKeyView, since it
refuses first responder, it just jumps to the next thing that does
accept first responder (this being one of the normal buttons).
If that doesn't do what he's asking for, then I have no clue what will.
Dave
On Jan 12, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Dave DeLong wrote:
Aha, I see what you're saying. Well, I just played around with
this, and subclassing an NSButton as follows will create a button
that looks enabled but won't respond to mouse clicks and also won't
allow users to tab to the button (ie, disallows the focus):
@interface FakeButton : NSButton { }
@end
@implementation FakeButton
- (BOOL) acceptsFirstReponder { return NO; }
- (BOOL) becomeFirstResponder { return NO; }
- (void) mouseDown:(NSEvent *)event { return; }
- (void) mouseUp:(NSEvent *)event { return ; }
@end
Just tried it and it works as I've described above.
Dave
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Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: I planned to use it to emulate gradient bottom bar (under Source List control), looks like in Mail.app. Is THAT all?! :-D In an attempt to avoid using your own (or third-party) code that very specifically and efficiently addresses the problem (because of some strange phobia), you're making things so much more difficult than is even remotely necessary or sane! If you're worried about consuming resources, consider the resources involved in using a full-blown control versus a simple, pointed custom view that draws a gradient. Seriously, your worries are akin to holding your breath because you're afraid of inhaling something bad that may or may not be there. BREATHE!!! Then create a custom NSView that draws a gradient using the *INCREDIBLY EFFICIENT* system calls. Perhaps NSGradient if you're requiring 10.5 or above? Maybe CTGradient (the slimmed down version someone posted somewhere googlable if you're cruft-phobic)? This is infinitely better than super-premature-as-in-before-the-creation-of-the-universe optimization. Really, I don't like all these additional libraries that try to emulate gradient bottom bar, because they redraw these controls by itself, and I would like to use only Apple controls. Get over it. -- I.S. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: Are you 100% sure that disabled and enabled buttons takes identical amount of system resources? YES. -- I.S. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: So what you're saying is you want a button that doesn't do anything? Exactly. In that case, just don't hook the button's action up to anything... Already did it, just tried to remove this button from system observers to save system resources putting it in disabled state. See, this is why you should tell people what you're trying to do when they ask you, or better yet, up front. Imagine how the thread might have gone if you had put this information in your original e-mail: Is there a way to make a disabled button that looks like enabled? I'm trying to remove this button from system observers to save system resources putting it in disabled state. Well, that doesn't make any sense. There's no such thing as 'system observers', and a disabled button takes up exactly the same system resources as an enabled button. Oh, I see, thanks. Bang, three quick messages, end of thread. But instead you draw this out to a couple *dozen* messages by your insistence that your goal, which makes no sense and renders the entire thing pointless, is unimportant to the question. Mike ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
He's also a little hung up on premature optimization. Knuth would not be pleased. Donnie, What system resources are you trying to free up ?? And why?? Rob On Jan 12, 2009, at 11:47 AM, I. Savant wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: I am curious to know more about theses system observers. Can you explain us what is it ? Cocoa observers which sends mouse events, keyboard events etc. You should probably read this: http://developer.apple.com/DOCUMENTATION/Cocoa/Conceptual/EventOverview/EventArchitecture/chapter_2_section_2.html# ... you appear to be misunderstanding how events are handled. -- I.S. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/rob.ross%40gmail.com This email sent to rob.r...@gmail.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On 12 Jan 2009, at 19:39:29, Donnie Lee wrote: I see there is unavoidable problem with my fake button and Accessibility tools which may happens. I planned to use it to emulate gradient bottom bar (under Source List control), looks like in Mail.app. I created three buttons, two gradient action-buttons and one gradient non-clickable button with image aligned to right. This image is a three lines which act as additionalEffectiveRectOfDividerAtIndex: of NSSplitView. It looks really nice but the fact that is a button...can it hurt people with Accessibility devices? Really, I don't like all these additional libraries that try to emulate gradient bottom bar, because they redraw these controls by itself, and I would like to use only Apple controls. Now that explains it. Take a look at NSSegmentedControl. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
I planned to use it to emulate gradient bottom bar (under Source List control), looks like in Mail.app. Is THAT all?! :-D In an attempt to avoid using your own (or third-party) code that very specifically and efficiently addresses the problem (because of some strange phobia), you're making things so much more difficult than is even remotely necessary or sane! Using gradient buttons is much easier because the controls is already there, so I don't need to create controls by myself or use 3rd party code. Then create a custom NSView that draws a gradient using the *INCREDIBLY EFFICIENT* system calls. Perhaps NSGradient if you're requiring 10.5 or above? Maybe CTGradient (the slimmed down version someone posted somewhere googlable if you're cruft-phobic)? Yes, but, as I said before, the controls is already there and I planned to use them to make the app simpler, but now I see there is hidden problems. Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
RE: Disabled button looks like enabled
Yes, it is still an NSButton (or equivalent) after all. Enabled/Disabled is simply a state/property of the button. Peace, Love, and Light, /s/ Jon C. Munson II -Original Message- From: cocoa-dev-bounces+jmunson=his@lists.apple.com [mailto:cocoa-dev-bounces+jmunson=his@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Lee Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:45 PM To: Jean-Daniel Dupas Cc: Cocoa Developers Subject: Re: Disabled button looks like enabled Then the window object try to resolve the target responder. Each NSView is a responder. I really don't understand how you're trying to reduce system resource usage. Hmm, I don't know internals of Cocoa, I hypothesized that putting a button in a disabled state can remove focus areas handled by mouse or something else, which can save a little system resources without big pain. Are you 100% sure that disabled and enabled buttons takes identical amount of system resources? Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/jmunson%40his.com This email sent to jmun...@his.com ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
He's also a little hung up on premature optimization. Knuth would not be pleased. Donnie, What system resources are you trying to free up ?? And why?? Don't take it to heart. It was just a hypothesis that I can save some resources by setting the button to disabled state. People here told that it is wrong and Cocoa handles them equally, and it's great so I don't need to bother about it. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: Using gradient buttons is much easier because the controls is already there, so I don't need to create controls by myself or use 3rd party code. ... Yes, but, as I said before, the controls is already there and I planned to use them to make the app simpler, but now I see there is hidden problems. Let me be frank: Your apps will always suck if you don't get over this irrational fear. Rarely will you ever create more than the most basic application that doesn't require some custom UI (be they controls, data views, or merely decorative elements as you're creating). While your argument doesn't completely classify as straw man, is absurd. For every hidden problem you discover when using a UI element for something completely outside its intended purpose, there are many more you don't see. Again, speaking frankly, it makes your app look and behave like s**t. It makes any but the most clueless user drag it straight to the trash and avoid ever using your software again. GUARANTEED. Further, purposefully writing code to break a control is infinitely dirtier than writing a focused, custom control any day. Skanky, even. Dirty, whore-like skanky. Sores-in-unspeakable-places skanky. It makes your app a buggy, misbehaving misfit that is highly likely to break in future versions of the OS ... break in ways you may not even have imagined. For my final point: What do you think you're doing by writing the event-handling glue code that makes your app to begin with? How is a purpose-built control any dirtier than your purpose-built glue code? What about all of Apple's own software that has custom controls and views specific to the applications and not available as a system-wide UI element? Are they 'dirty' too? My god, has the *whole world* succumbed to the seedy underworld of dirty, dirty application-specific code?! UNCLEAN UNCLEAN Seriously, get over it. -- I.S. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
It's exactly what I need, Dave. Thank you!
A small question: there is Enable access for assistive devices in
Universal Access, what do you think, can any of these devices treat my
fake button as a real button (even if the button don't accepts first
responder)? Or removing first responder from a button guarantees that
it never be accessible?
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Dave DeLong davedel...@me.com wrote:
I'll also point out that this will work for any NSButton flavor (checkboxes,
help, recessed, etc). I just did some further testing to make sure that
these buttons refuse the focus, and they definitely don't accept being first
responder. I created an interface with a bunch of normal buttons, wired up
the nextKeyView to be sequential, and then wired the last of the normal
buttons to the first of the FakeButtons. (I also wired the first normal
button to be initialFirstResponder). I turned on full access in SysPrefs,
then ran the app.
Hitting the tab button will ONLY tab through the normal buttons. Even
though one of the FakeButtons is wired to be the nextKeyView, since it
refuses first responder, it just jumps to the next thing that does accept
first responder (this being one of the normal buttons).
If that doesn't do what he's asking for, then I have no clue what will.
Dave
On Jan 12, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Dave DeLong wrote:
Aha, I see what you're saying. Well, I just played around with this, and
subclassing an NSButton as follows will create a button that looks enabled
but won't respond to mouse clicks and also won't allow users to tab to the
button (ie, disallows the focus):
@interface FakeButton : NSButton { }
@end
@implementation FakeButton
- (BOOL) acceptsFirstReponder { return NO; }
- (BOOL) becomeFirstResponder { return NO; }
- (void) mouseDown:(NSEvent *)event { return; }
- (void) mouseUp:(NSEvent *)event { return ; }
@end
Just tried it and it works as I've described above.
Dave
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Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
From what I understand about responders, removing first responder guarantees that the control will never be able to accept the focus, because accepting the focus would make the control first responder. So no; nothing would be able to make this behave as normal button. Dave On Jan 12, 2009, at 1:28 PM, Donnie Lee wrote: It's exactly what I need, Dave. Thank you! A small question: there is Enable access for assistive devices in Universal Access, what do you think, can any of these devices treat my fake button as a real button (even if the button don't accepts first responder)? Or removing first responder from a button guarantees that it never be accessible? ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: Really, I don't like all these additional libraries that try to emulate gradient bottom bar, because they redraw these controls by itself, and I would like to use only Apple controls. Look at NSSegmentedControl. --Kyle Sluder ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Now that explains it. Take a look at NSSegmentedControl. Looks nice, but how to align an image in segment, how to implement imageDimsWhenDisabled and how to choose button style (I need a pop-up button there, I found how to add a menu to segment but triangle is not appears)? ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Imagine how the thread might have gone if you had put this information in your original e-mail: No, Michael, that was a simple technical question. Dave's answer was the best. He even helped me with focus workarounds. Some people told me something like Don't do it because I don't like that you do it. Your app will always suck...etc.etc. -- that absolutely don't disturb me, that are their personal problems. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Kind regards and gratitude, Dave! On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:31 PM, Dave DeLong davedel...@me.com wrote: From what I understand about responders, removing first responder guarantees that the control will never be able to accept the focus, because accepting the focus would make the control first responder. So no; nothing would be able to make this behave as normal button. Dave ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
While my answer may be best, now that I know what you're planning to do with it, I would still suggest that you use something like Brandon's BWToolkit. Your phobia of third-party controls will just make life difficult for you. For example: you just spent 10 hours trying to replicate a gradient bar, when you could've spent 20 minutes downloading Brandon's toolkit, installing it, restarting IB, then dragging and dropping in a gradient toolbar yourself, and it would've behaved in exactly the same way with no measurable difference in performance. Dave On Jan 12, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Donnie Lee wrote: No, Michael, that was a simple technical question. Dave's answer was the best. He even helped me with focus workarounds. Some people told me something like Don't do it because I don't like that you do it. Your app will always suck...etc.etc. -- that absolutely don't disturb me, that are their personal problems. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Now that explains it. Take a look at NSSegmentedControl. Looks nice, but how to align an image in segment, how to implement imageDimsWhenDisabled and how to choose button style (I need a pop-up button there, I found how to add a menu to segment but triangle is not appears)? Hmm, you have a point about aligning images. One option would be to simply have the image displayed on its own, and the segmented control simply being the rightmost segment. It's not pretty, and I actually think Dave's suggestion looks nicer in this case. Yes, Dave's suggestion suits me fine. Donnie. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Donnie Lee lpr...@gmail.com wrote: Some people told me something like Don't do it because I don't like that you do it. Nobody said any such thing. Those who told you not to do it gave *valid technical reasons* why this is a bad idea (one of which you acknowledged) and why it will be prone to break. That you're being purposefully obtuse in the face of a helpful and knowledgeable community only reflects poorly on you. What a shameful display. -- I.S. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Donnie Lee wrote: Imagine how the thread might have gone if you had put this information in your original e-mail: No, Michael, that was a simple technical question. ... The problem is, that when you go to people more experienced than you are to ask a simple technical question and people more experienced than you are tell you that the very specific thing you're attempting is virtually never a sensible tactic and then ask what your goal is so they can help you develop a tactic that does make sense, telling those people more experienced than you are that they don't know what they're talking about is not a particularly constructive course. Don't get wedded to tactics. It's the target that's important. Honest and for true: Sometimes the correct answer to How do I do this? is You don't. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
Anyone who has been developing Apple/Mac software for more than a few years can attest that Apple occasionally changes the way that some UI elements look, in some ways very subtle and in other ways major, and relying upon a current side-effect of one UI element to look like another element can cause problems for your users if such a change happens. If you choose to use a well-defined option, such as that available in BWToolkit, you and your users would be far less surprised than if a textured button suddenly showed up with a radial gradient rather than the linear gradient you are expecting today. On 01/12/2009 1:27 PM, Dave DeLong davedel...@me.com wrote: While my answer may be best, now that I know what you're planning to do with it, I would still suggest that you use something like Brandon's BWToolkit. Your phobia of third-party controls will just make life difficult for you. For example: you just spent 10 hours trying to replicate a gradient bar, when you could've spent 20 minutes downloading Brandon's toolkit, installing it, restarting IB, then dragging and dropping in a gradient toolbar yourself, and it would've behaved in exactly the same way with no measurable difference in performance. Dave On Jan 12, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Donnie Lee wrote: No, Michael, that was a simple technical question. Dave's answer was the best. He even helped me with focus workarounds. Some people told me something like Don't do it because I don't like that you do it. Your app will always suck...etc.etc. -- that absolutely don't disturb me, that are their personal problems. ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
No offense, Dave -- you've been very generous with your time and
advice (while also, of course, satisfying your own curiosity :)) --
but I personally would use I. Savant's original too dirty
suggestion, which can be implemented in three lines:
@implementation MyButton
- (void)drawRect:(NSRect)rect
{
[[self cell] setEnabled:YES];
[super drawRect:rect];
[[self cell] setEnabled:NO];
}
@end
It would make sense to uncheck the button's Enabled box in IB, but
with this solution you don't even have to do that.
Granted, I haven't tried all permutations, but this is what I would
have started with.
--Andy
On Jan 12, 2009, at 4:27 PM, Dave DeLong wrote:
While my answer may be best, now that I know what you're planning
to do with it, I would still suggest that you use something like
Brandon's BWToolkit. Your phobia of third-party controls will just
make life difficult for you. For example: you just spent 10 hours
trying to replicate a gradient bar, when you could've spent 20
minutes downloading Brandon's toolkit, installing it, restarting IB,
then dragging and dropping in a gradient toolbar yourself, and it
would've behaved in exactly the same way with no measurable
difference in performance.
Dave
On Jan 12, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Donnie Lee wrote:
No, Michael, that was a simple technical question. Dave's answer was
the best. He even helped me with focus workarounds. Some people told
me something like Don't do it because I don't like that you do it.
Your app will always suck...etc.etc. -- that absolutely don't
disturb
me, that are their personal problems.
___
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Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
None taken. I really got Cocoa while working on iPhone, so
understanding what ButtonCells actually do and how they work are still
things I haven't gotten to yet. That's why my first idea (after
understanding the question) was to go look at firstResponder stuff.
Plus, this thread has been more entertaining than paying diligent
attention in my Principles of Statistics class... ;)
Dave
On Jan 12, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Andy Lee wrote:
No offense, Dave -- you've been very generous with your time and
advice (while also, of course, satisfying your own curiosity :)) --
but I personally would use I. Savant's original too dirty
suggestion, which can be implemented in three lines:
@implementation MyButton
- (void)drawRect:(NSRect)rect
{
[[self cell] setEnabled:YES];
[super drawRect:rect];
[[self cell] setEnabled:NO];
}
@end
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Re: Disabled button looks like enabled
On Jan 12, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Dave DeLong wrote: Plus, this thread has been more entertaining than paying diligent attention in my Principles of Statistics class... ;) What, you're reading cocoa-dev instead of doing what you're SUPPOSED to be doing? I'd tell you how shocked I am, but my boss is coming, gotta go... --Andy ___ Cocoa-dev mailing list (Cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com) Please do not post admin requests or moderator comments to the list. Contact the moderators at cocoa-dev-admins(at)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/cocoa-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
