date:20070123


Great ideas - it would be worth checking out existing services to tie
into, such as Plazes (http://plazes.com), which has blog widgets (see
my blog sidebar http://highearthorbit.com)

There are also Geo-plugins for blogging engines, such as GeoPress for
WordPress (http://georss.org/geopress), that the Neo could publish
location, history, photos to. Or just geotag photos and upload to
Flickr/SmugMug/Panoramio/Zooomr/et al.

GeoTracing (http://www.geotracing.com/) is a very cool project that
spawned GeoSkating  GeoSailing, much like what you're suggesting. And
Bliin (http://www.bliin.com/) is an upcoming project to do very
advanced tracking/friend finding, etc.

See the OpenMoKo wiki for some of these links and to add your own ideas!
http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ideas/GPSFriends
http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Software

But as Richard Bennet pointed out - a lot of the actual 'ability' will
depend on the accuracy of the GPS that the phone  apps sees.
Andrew

On 1/23/07, Jan Van Vlaenderen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Would be a nice feature when doing geocaching. Everybody can see the
mistakes you did :-)

On 1/23/07, Michele Manzato  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 Nice to keep as a personal record, BTW that's done in several time
tracking apps. But who's willing to tell the world where (s)he usually hangs
out and when during the day?
 Cheers
 Michele

 
 Da: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Per conto di
Oleg L. Sverdlov
 Inviato: martedì 23 gennaio 2007 10.51
 A: OpenMoko
 Oggetto: an idea: GPS blog?




 Videoblogging has its niche, but how about a small application that
remembers where you've been during a day , and how long; and then visualizes
everything in form of nice coloured curves, and publishes to your blog?



 --
 Best regards,
 Oleg.




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Conference system / poster wall for the FOSDEM Re: Need for a clusterd megaphone via Bluetooth....

Salve Sean!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
 On 1/23/07 1:38 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Robert Michel wrote:
  I need some help - it is realy a pitty that Sean
  will not speach on a stage at the FOSDEM 2007
  
  Are you sure? :)
 
 I'm speaking. 

:))) Very fine!  ;)))

Sorry to make some rumour to get this anouncement from you,
but I think you like it to get feedback that the people 
realy wants to hear you ;)


So OpenMoko/Neo1973 will standing on the FOSDEM shedule
quite soon? ;)))

 I just meant that I would prefer to walk around and hang out
 with you guys than sit at a booth all day.

Of course - IMHO no need to stay the full time at the table :)

But in the background of your nice interview I saw a nice Neo1973 
wall (when you have to choose - leave it at home and bring more
Neos with you) but when you can arrange to bring this mobil poster
wall with you it would be great (IMHO)!
You don't have to stand there all day 
- just put a small paper on the table:

be here again at 12:50h 
 and we'll go to lunch 
 togehter :) 

It would be just a good meetingpoint :)

Ah and the jumping person of the poster wall could be used
for designing the t-shirt (or sweet-shirts) togehter
with the slogan Free your phone



Conference System###
How many speaker and mics does the Neo1973 will have?
At the bottle opener side it would be nice to have speaker
and mic - that it would be possible to carry the neo at a neck
like a pendant (jewel) and have a sound system at your head,
but also a free speaking system for phoning...

So with this, it would be possibel to put the Neo1973 on a table
and have a directed free speak system as well. Now with Bluetooth
it could be used as a Conference System. 30 people with a Neo
sitting around a big table. Who's pressing his neo get the speach
(red light) and the other got via Bluetooth the audio signal, but
also Name of the speaker and his speaking time on the display :))

In a big confernce with a moderator, could be an auditorium, the
people which want to ask a question could register themself that
they want to ask and type their quetion to the moderator.
He will got the name (and maybe function of the questioner) and
a little bit later the question topic.
Then he can sort how many questions are there, group them and
call the questioner one by one.
The questioner will not need to got a mic, he will speak into
his Neo (and see how much time he still has for his question ...)


Such a system can recorde the speach and the question automaticaly
on every device so the people could take it directly with them
(for open discussion - some political or business discussion will
not be recorded - they have a mobil ban already)
and external people can join this easyly via GSM or internet and
also ask questions So such a conference system would be handy
also for small meetings.

Greetings
rob
















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Buttons


There seems to be a bit of confusion about the references to 2
additional buttons, and how they may be used.

1) Are they simple microswitches, or something else?
2) Will they have hard-wired functionality?
3) Does OpenMoko have standardised usage models for them - e.g.
power/profile selection?
4) Where are they positioned upon the phone?

These factors seem to affect whether applications or games can
use/remap one or both of these buttons for their own purposes!

Richard

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Re: an idea: GPS blog?

2007-01-23 Thread Oleg L. Sverdlov

Speaking about _useful_ solutions, I'd like to see user-submitted map of 
speed cameras.



Like when the phone is in car-cradle, then half of the screen transforms 
in one big button. You see a camera, you tap on screen. When the car is 
waiting on red light, the phone uploads data to a server and downloads 
updated and processed information about cameras locations.


Next time you're approaching a camera, the phone will play alarm sound.



O.



Richard Franks wrote:


On 1/23/07, Oleg L. Sverdlov  wrote:
  

Videoblogging has its niche, but how about a small application that
remembers where you've been during a day , and how long; and then visualizes
everything in form of nice coloured curves, and publishes to your blog?



I'm definitely looking forward to something like this. What I'd find
useful is something which uploads the GPS traces to my home machine
database, then makes that data available to other sources through
access control.

1) So I can select an area downtown, and see my most (or least)
favourite places or travelled routes through it for the time period of
my choice.
2) If I'm going to a planned meeting with a Neo-Owning-Friend (NOF?),
the Neo could check my agenda and automatically enable
Location-Sharing until we find each other.

Actually, as there are a bunch of GPS Google API mashups out there
already - if the Neo can run Google Maps then it will be quite easy to
integrate access control, editing, uploading (to
home/openstreetmap/etc), quering home machine DB, all into the same
webapp.

Richard
  


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Re: built-in scripting languages

2007-01-23 Thread Redvers Davies


Sorry, I have to completely disagree with you.

On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 11:21 +0100, Tomasz Zielinski wrote:
 I'm affraid of using interpreted and dynamically typed languages in
 embedded environment, like cellphone. Especially when using GSM API --
 it's much easier to omit bug in interpreted language on embedded
 device than compiled one.

Blatently untrue.

Bugs are introduced by human error.  High level languages means that
humans do less work at the cost of lower performance and space.  Less
work means less opportunity to introduce bugs.

In Perl,Python,Ruby,Lua you typically don't have to Check bounds, do
type casting, pointer arithmetic etc etc. A simple look at any of
mailing list for a decient C project shows that even mature C/C++
developers create these types of bugs all the time.  It goes with the
territory.

 Cellphones we know have GUI so strictly bounded to phone we don't even
 mention it. One display check and you know what happens with
 connection. OpenMoko will (probably) bahave differently -- man can
 even not notice at all that call is active. So if your script calls
 somewhere then fails silently, you will pay a lot.

With all the love in the world, this is FUD.

Regards,



Red



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Re: an idea: GPS blog?

2007-01-23 Thread Oleg L. Sverdlov


Richard, nice idea.The upload back to home looks like a necessary feature.


BTW Speaking about _useful_ solutions, I'd like to see user-submitted 
map of speed cameras.



Like when the phone is in car-cradle, then half of the screen transforms 
in one big button. You see a camera, you tap on screen. When the car is 
waiting on red light, the phone uploads data to a server and downloads 
updated and processed information about cameras locations.


Next time you're approaching a camera, the phone will play alarm sound.


But what's important for new phone popularity, is teenagers market, so 
the more bells and whistles, the better. Cool factor.



O.



Richard Franks wrote:


On 1/23/07, Oleg L. Sverdlov  wrote:
  

Videoblogging has its niche, but how about a small application that
remembers where you've been during a day , and how long; and then visualizes
everything in form of nice coloured curves, and publishes to your blog?



I'm definitely looking forward to something like this. What I'd find
useful is something which uploads the GPS traces to my home machine
database, then makes that data available to other sources through
access control.

1) So I can select an area downtown, and see my most (or least)
favourite places or travelled routes through it for the time period of
my choice.
2) If I'm going to a planned meeting with a Neo-Owning-Friend (NOF?),
the Neo could check my agenda and automatically enable
Location-Sharing until we find each other.

Actually, as there are a bunch of GPS Google API mashups out there
already - if the Neo can run Google Maps then it will be quite easy to
integrate access control, editing, uploading (to
home/openstreetmap/etc), quering home machine DB, all into the same
webapp.

Richard
  


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RE: an idea: GPS blog?

2007-01-23 Thread Dean Collins

The big problem with a lot of these applications being suggested is it
will require back end servers to store the data.

 

I'm yet to see anyone suggest SAAS pricing models for FIC applications
on a monthly/annual basis or is everyone on this list still thinking
that open source means free.

 

 

Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph
+1-917-207-3420 Mb
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Oleg L.
Sverdlov
Sent: Tuesday, 23 January 2007 8:34 AM
Cc: OpenMoko
Subject: Re: an idea: GPS blog?

 

Richard, nice idea.The upload back to home looks like a necessary
feature.

 

BTW Speaking about _useful_ solutions, I'd like to see user-submitted
map of speed cameras.

 

Like when the phone is in car-cradle, then half of the screen transforms
in one big button. You see a camera, you tap on screen. When the car is
waiting on red light, the phone uploads data to a server and downloads
updated and processed information about cameras locations. 

Next time you're approaching a camera, the phone will play alarm sound. 

 

But what's important for new phone popularity, is teenagers market, so
the more bells and whistles, the better. Cool factor.

 

O.

 

 

Richard Franks wrote:

On 1/23/07, Oleg L. Sverdlov  wrote:
  

Videoblogging has its niche, but how about a small
application that
remembers where you've been during a day , and how long;
and then visualizes
everything in form of nice coloured curves, and
publishes to your blog?


 
I'm definitely looking forward to something like this. What I'd
find
useful is something which uploads the GPS traces to my home
machine
database, then makes that data available to other sources
through
access control.
 
1) So I can select an area downtown, and see my most (or least)
favourite places or travelled routes through it for the time
period of
my choice.
2) If I'm going to a planned meeting with a Neo-Owning-Friend
(NOF?),
the Neo could check my agenda and automatically enable
Location-Sharing until we find each other.
 
Actually, as there are a bunch of GPS Google API mashups out
there
already - if the Neo can run Google Maps then it will be quite
easy to
integrate access control, editing, uploading (to
home/openstreetmap/etc), quering home machine DB, all into the
same
webapp.
 
Richard
  

 

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Re: an idea: GPS blog?


On 1/23/07, Dean Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


The big problem with a lot of these applications being suggested is it will
require back end servers to store the data.

I'm yet to see anyone suggest SAAS pricing models for FIC applications on
a monthly/annual basis or is everyone on this list still thinking that open
source means free.


I'm not discounting this, but I'll be opening up a port or two on my
firewall first - most home-use router/gateway boxes support port
forwarding quite easily now - and with something like xampp, even most
windows-based folks can set up a database server on their home machine
quite easily too.

To connect the 'home-servers' together, you could use dynamic dns or a
centralised server which takes a known OpenMoko-ID and spits back the
current IP/Port and/or operational status.

Richard

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OpenMoko-ID


Will we have something like this? Do we want something like this?

It could be useful for contact-sharing, authentication, access to
services on the OpenMoko site, keeping track of gaming friends,
referencing file/data resources on the users home 'or otherwise'
machine etc.

Richard

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Fw: Re: built-in scripting languages

2007-01-23 Thread Tim Newsom


Bah, forgot to reply all.

I think that's an excellent idea actually... A website where you can log 
into, set up preferences about the packages you have installed and build 
an image based on that.


Is that ability already in existence?  I mean, I am sure ipkg has the 
ability to update all of your currently installed packages, but it 
doesn't build an image for you to clean install on your system.. Right? 
Or am I out of touch again (it happens often I think lol).  Or would 
anything be gained by clean installing a new image on your device?  Is 
there anything which can't be upgraded or installed by ipkg?


--Tim
On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:59, Carlo E. Prelz wrote:

I have a suggestion: a do-it-yourself main distribution packaging site
from FIC, where you can choose selected alternative components, and
receive as a result your own personalized 64MB.

Then, naturally, I will have to see if it is acceptable for me not to
use all those applications that require those scripting languages for
which there is no space on my main memory.


--Tim

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Re: an idea: GPS blog?

2007-01-23 Thread Oliver Heesakkers

Op dinsdag 23 januari 2007 14:55, schreef Dean Collins:
 The big problem with a lot of these applications being suggested is it
 will require back end servers to store the data.

 I'm yet to see anyone suggest SAAS pricing models for FIC applications
 on a monthly/annual basis or is everyone on this list still thinking
 that open source means free.


I think most of us are thinking about home-servers. I wrote a simple 
php-script on my server that takes the arguments (GPS-coordinates) of a 
GET-request and puts those in my postgreSQL-database.

Then another, equally simple, php-script pulls those coordinates out of the 
database and shows them graphically on a jpg/png of my choosing for anyone to 
view.
Optionally you could use the Google Maps API.

All of this is should be do-able on anything starting from a virtual hosting 
account, even storing the data in a database is optional, just use a 
textfile.

I've tested this setup by sending FlightGear's nmea-output through a 
bash-script to the input.php and it works beautifully!

All I need now is a small application on my mobile to make the HTTP 
GET-request like
http://www.example.com/webgps/input.php?lat=51.439123lon=5.477123
unfortunately, my programming skills are limited to the most basic php and 
bash.

Oliver

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Re: OpenMoko-ID

2007-01-23 Thread Marcus Bauer

On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 09:23 -0500, Richard Franks wrote:
 Will we have something like this? Do we want something like this?
 
 It could be useful for contact-sharing, authentication, access to
 services on the OpenMoko site, keeping track of gaming friends,
 referencing file/data resources on the users home 'or otherwise'
 machine etc.

What about using openID?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenID

Marcus




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Re: OpenMoko-ID

2007-01-23 Thread Gervais Mulongoy


Hi Richard,

Sounds like a great idea. I would like to then suggest that OpenMoko become
an OpenID host. Future OpenMoko services such as sharing contacts, pictures
and media, gaiming, VOIP/conferencing, etc could also benefit from
single-sign-on.

The basic idea, is that any and all services OpenMoko provides should
leverage the community as much as possible (using OpenID does that).

Gervais.

On 1/23/07, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Will we have something like this? Do we want something like this?

It could be useful for contact-sharing, authentication, access to
services on the OpenMoko site, keeping track of gaming friends,
referencing file/data resources on the users home 'or otherwise'
machine etc.

Richard

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Re: OpenMoko-ID

2007-01-23 Thread Gervais Mulongoy


Hi Marcus,

You read my mind, or maybe I read yours ;)

On 1/23/07, Gervais Mulongoy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi Richard,

Sounds like a great idea. I would like to then suggest that OpenMoko
become an OpenID host. Future OpenMoko services such as sharing contacts,
pictures and media, gaiming, VOIP/conferencing, etc could also benefit from
single-sign-on.

The basic idea, is that any and all services OpenMoko provides should
leverage the community as much as possible (using OpenID does that).

Gervais.

On 1/23/07, Richard Franks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Will we have something like this? Do we want something like this?

 It could be useful for contact-sharing, authentication, access to
 services on the OpenMoko site, keeping track of gaming friends,
 referencing file/data resources on the users home 'or otherwise'
 machine etc.

 Richard

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Re: OpenMoko-ID

Salve Richard!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Richard Franks wrote:

 Will we have something like this? Do we want something like this?

 It could be useful for contact-sharing, authentication,

I would like see a decentralized system that also works
offline - when I meet a person I'd like to give him a key
that allows him to contact me via
- telefon
- email
- jabber
- sftp
- ssh
...
so one dns adress like
login.robert-michel.openmopko.org
or self organized:
login.robertmichel.de
or
login.15231251234.dyn-dns.org

And I like to choose idividuall login adresses for different users
so that no eveal software could grab all IDs and analyse the social
network...


 access to
 services on the OpenMoko site, keeping track of gaming friends,
 referencing file/data resources on the users home 'or otherwise'
 machine etc.

OpenMoko could support personal networking, but I like to see it
that it is not centralized via openmoko.org - I like to see to
encourage people to have full control about their personal contacts.

Greetings,
rob

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Re: OpenMoko-ID

2007-01-23 Thread Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente


Just a bit off-topic, but have anyone considered using FOAF[1] as
format to store contacts info? Mobile phones are devices in a net, why
not somekind of connection to semantic web technologies? i.e. in FOAF
you can store friend's geoposition, and Neo1973 has a GPS... so you
could find your nearest friends... Think about the possibilities.

Another question, perhaps, it would be interesting contacting Mozilla
Foundation to work together in Mobile Companion[2], [3]

[1] http://www.foaf-project.org/
[2] http://wiki.mozilla.org/MobileCompanion
[3] http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/dougt/archives/017470.html

2007/1/23, Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

Rob, this is the purpose behind openID. OpenMoKo could be an OpenID
server for those that want to use it, but you can just as easily setup
your own too.

http://andrew.turner.highearthorbit.com/



On 1/23/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Salve Richard!

 On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Richard Franks wrote:

  Will we have something like this? Do we want something like this?
 
  It could be useful for contact-sharing, authentication,

 I would like see a decentralized system that also works
 offline - when I meet a person I'd like to give him a key
 that allows him to contact me via
 - telefon
 - email
 - jabber
 - sftp
 - ssh
 ...
 so one dns adress like
 login.robert-michel.openmopko.org
 or self organized:
 login.robertmichel.de
 or
 login.15231251234.dyn-dns.org

 And I like to choose idividuall login adresses for different users
 so that no eveal software could grab all IDs and analyse the social
 network...


  access to
  services on the OpenMoko site, keeping track of gaming friends,
  referencing file/data resources on the users home 'or otherwise'
  machine etc.

 OpenMoko could support personal networking, but I like to see it
 that it is not centralized via openmoko.org - I like to see to
 encourage people to have full control about their personal contacts.

 Greetings,
 rob

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--
J. Manrique López de la Fuente
http://www.jsmanrique.net
msn: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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BT Vehicle Profiles

2007-01-23 Thread Duncan Hudson

I have a car that only allows bluetooth connectivity to about 10 
Motorola (old) phones.  Needless to say that's incredibly frustrating as 
my phone isn't one of the listed phones.  As this is going to be an open 
phone could I make the OpenMoko emulate one of these old phones so that 
I can finally connect to my car?  I know nothing about Bluetooth - just 
how involved would this be?


Duncan

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Re: BT Vehicle Profiles


Bluetooth connectivity is usually limited by the protocols that the
bluetooth stack supports on the 2-sides. Essentially, are they both
going to speak the same protocol?

It is sometimes possible to write drivers for hardware (at least open
hardware) to add protocol's to the stack. However, what car/system do
you have so that it may help identify which protocol's it expects.

Here is a good intro to Bluetooth technical aspects:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeviceDrivers/Conceptual/Bluetooth/BT_Bluetooth_Basics/chapter_2_section_4.html

Andrew

On 1/23/07, Duncan Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have a car that only allows bluetooth connectivity to about 10
Motorola (old) phones.  Needless to say that's incredibly frustrating as
my phone isn't one of the listed phones.  As this is going to be an open
phone could I make the OpenMoko emulate one of these old phones so that
I can finally connect to my car?  I know nothing about Bluetooth - just
how involved would this be?

Duncan

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Andrew Turner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]42.4266N x 83.4931W
http://highearthorbit.com  Northville, Michigan, USA

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The vehicle in question is a Range Rover HSE. The car isn't mine, it's
a company car. The phone in question is one of the phones that I have
to support so logically the fact that they won't connect is my problem!
My thinking was, get the OpenMoko to connect, move the user to it, and
be done with this headache!

Andrew Turner wrote:

Bluetooth connectivity is usually limited by the protocols that the
bluetooth stack supports on the 2-sides. Essentially, are they both
going to speak the same protocol?

It is sometimes possible to write drivers for hardware (at least open
hardware) to add protocol's to the stack. However, what car/system do
you have so that it may help identify which protocol's it expects.

Here is a good intro to Bluetooth technical aspects:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeviceDrivers/Conceptual/Bluetooth/BT_Bluetooth_Basics/chapter_2_section_4.html

Andrew

On 1/23/07, Duncan Hudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have a car that only allows bluetooth connectivity to about 10
Motorola (old) phones. Needless to say that's incredibly frustrating as
my phone isn't one of the listed phones. As this is going to be an open
phone could I make the OpenMoko emulate one of these old phones so that
I can finally connect to my car? I know nothing about Bluetooth - just
how involved would this be?

Duncan

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keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread quixote

I'm a (future) user, and this phone is what I've been waiting for in so 
many ways.  Except one.  No option to buy one with a qwerty keyboard. 

Please, please, please re-think that.  I have to do a lot of writing and 
emailing while away from my main computer, and the lack of a keyboard is 
a showstopper for me.  I remember seeing one earlier comment on the same 
topic from someone who does a lot of text messaging.  A *lot* of people 
are using phones as stand-ins for computers, and a keyboard is essential 
for that.


It could be relatively easy to add a keyboard if it was simply an added 
hinged component, i.e. you had much the same shape, but it would be 
twice as thick (and heavy) for those of us desperate to have keyboards, 
and it would open on the long side, like the LG9800 or the ROAD phone.


How do other people feel about this?

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Re:keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread Joe Pfeiffer

quixote writes:
I'm a (future) user, and this phone is what I've been waiting for in so 
many ways.  Except one.  No option to buy one with a qwerty keyboard. 

Please, please, please re-think that.  I have to do a lot of writing and 
emailing while away from my main computer, and the lack of a keyboard is 
a showstopper for me.  I remember seeing one earlier comment on the same 
topic from someone who does a lot of text messaging.  A *lot* of people 
are using phones as stand-ins for computers, and a keyboard is essential 
for that.

It could be relatively easy to add a keyboard if it was simply an added 
hinged component, i.e. you had much the same shape, but it would be 
twice as thick (and heavy) for those of us desperate to have keyboards, 
and it would open on the long side, like the LG9800 or the ROAD phone.

How do other people feel about this?

Ideally, later versions may be available both with and without
keyboards.  For me, the reason I didn't get a Treo last summer when my
existing PalmOS phone started flaking out was that I couldn't get one
*without* a keyboard, and there was no built-in stylus-based text
entry.

In the meantime, if you're serious about typing with this device,
http://www.thinkoutside.com/

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Re: Neo1973 Car kit - some pittfalls due laws possible?

Salve Joe!

Joe Pfeiffer schrieb am Dienstag, den 23. Januar 2007 um 09:00h:

 Robert Michel writes:
 but I have some doubts about the Car Kit because I heard that most
 of cars sold the last 10 years have a gerneal aproval (Allgemeine
 Betriebserlaubnis) that would expires when a radio transmitter 
 (e.g. of a GSM mobil) is used inside during driving without using
 an external antenna.
 
 Speaking as a bit of a car nut, it's hard for me to imagine how a cell
 phone could affect the car's electronics...

Well, put a mobile close to a speaker or AM radio...

I haven't heard about any misfunction (of an Airbag or...) due a
mobil inside a car but that not the counting point.
When it is true, that the cars only have a general aproval when
there is no mobile phone without an external antenna used inside
then there is the danger, that some day it this fact is not only
sleeping in the law papers, it could used someday from some mobil
producers with external antenna connectors to boost their business
by lobbing that this point has to be controlled by the police.

So I haven't found a right source for this, the adac.de link hasn't
an official law text and isn't about the point general aproval and
mobiles without external antenna - it is only about the official
requirements to free speak systems.
 
 A German car driver club (BTW the association/NGO with the most members
 in Germany) has an overview about law pittfalls in Germany around using
 a mobil in a car:
 http://www.adac.de/Recht_und_Rat/verkehrsrecht/verkehrsvorschriften_deutschland/handyverbot/default.asp
 
 I don't speak German (in spite of my last name); is there an English
 translation for this?

AFAIK no. I posted this topic and link to this list, that some
electrical engineer (who could speak German) would start to care
about this point.

So again - at the moment the police react only when people phoning
without a free speak unit and sometimes when the people using a PDA
during driving.

 Since last Dezember it is forbidden for the driver to touch a PDA/mobil 
 computer with a radio(GSM)modul during driving with his fingers:
 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970
 The law which forbit using your fingers to pick up a call or dial a
 inumber in a mobil phone is no expand to a gernal touch forbiddance 
 due a judgement.
 
 As a matter of safety, it turns out that the major problem with using
 cell phones is the distraction, not having your hands unavailable to
 drive (even with a manual transmission).  Car kits do very, very
 little to help.

This is a general ban we have life with - I could imagine a touch
GUI on a Neo1973 which to use would be more safe than using normal 
car radios but there is the general ban (thanks to the unsafe
GUI of normal phones.. and PDAs)

But to be precice - it is still allowed in Germany to use a PDA 
during driving with your fingers - but not a PDA with a GSM module 
- even when the PDA with GSM module is used only for navigation 
or music entertainment.

Lawyers could find out if there is a chance when OpenMoko would have
the power of a vserver and a car modus that intaction with the GSM
part is blocked in the car modus

IMHO this doesn't worth to deal with a beside laws or not it is better
to take care themself and never touch a PDA/Phone/Navigation system
while driving. So halt your car befor touching the screen.
Beside voice commands the Neo1973 could offer a new function via GPRS
- call your partner/your office/your secretary and please her/him to
change your route remotly :))

 While it has become allowed to use a mobil and GSM transmitter
 during flying a plain I fear that the laws could be be missused
 
 When has this become allowed?

About last year?
News from today:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/84079
(Sorry German again)

in short:
The airline Emirates will allow cellular phone calls from february
2007 on. [my comment: AFAIK will these modificated plains a micro GSM cell 
inside
and route this call to the outside - so the mobile doesn't start to
swith to burst with full power to find a cell.]
Ryanair will modificate 50 plains till summer 2007 

Use this link:
http://www.about-electronics.eu/2007/01/16/this-is-your-captain-calling-emirates-allows-cellphone/
But there isn't a gereral permission to use such systems



BTW micro cell - I saw some weeks ago a finish or swedish website
of a university build their own UMTS station - is that allowed 
with UMTS beside GSM to run their own micro station? Something
for Neo1973 version UMTS?


Ok, I wanted only to stress, that there are some action to use mobil phones
in plains and in opposide there could be a sleeping law about mobils inside 
cars.
what someone should check before producing and selling the Neo1973 v1.

Greetings,
rob







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Re: keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread Mikko Rauhala

ti, 2007-01-23 kello 08:37 -0800, quixote kirjoitti:
 I'm a (future) user, and this phone is what I've been waiting for in
 so many ways.  Except one.  No option to buy one with a qwerty
 keyboard.  

 Please, please, please re-think that. [...]
 How do other people feel about this?

I feel that it is futile at this point to ask for them to re-think
nontrivial design issues. What would be less futile is to make it a
wishlist item for future OpenMoko phones, which I'm pretty sure it is
already. Hopefully there will, in the future, be enough demand for a
variety of different models to be economically feasible.

That said, I'd also like a keyboard. I'll probably buy one, too, since
the phone does have BT, and there are small BT keyboards on the market.
(Incidentally, I do hope the default apps take into account that there
may be a keyboard present in addition to the touchscreen.)

-- 
Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
University of Helsinki


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No problem - connect it via USB or Bluetooth Re: keyboard, please!

Salve quixote!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, quixote wrote:
 It could be relatively easy to add a keyboard if it was simply an added 
 hinged component, i.e. you had much the same shape, but it would be 
 twice as thick (and heavy) for those of us desperate to have keyboards, 
 and it would open on the long side, like the LG9800 or the ROAD phone.
 
 How do other people feel about this?

I'm very happy that it hasn't one because too small 
keyboards are useless!

With keystroking you could reach spead that beats  normal 1-finger 
searching the right key system writer. And to write quick with 10
fingers the keyboard need to be bigger than 15 cm:
 There are cheap and ligthwight USB keyboards that you can add
 when you have to write more text... and via bluetooth it will be
 maybe not so secure - but wireless :))

But I expect that with the multitouch screen newer and better/faster
text input will be possible.

Greetings,
rob
(vim,mutt,elinks user)

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Re: keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente


I wouldn't add a keyboard, but a Bluetooth one. So, I would prefer
decent bluetooth support for keyboards and international keys layouts,
or even creating custom layouts.

Best regards,

2007/1/23, quixote [EMAIL PROTECTED]:


 I'm a (future) user, and this phone is what I've been waiting for in so
many ways.  Except one.  No option to buy one with a qwerty keyboard.

 Please, please, please re-think that.  I have to do a lot of writing and
emailing while away from my main computer, and the lack of a keyboard is a
showstopper for me.  I remember seeing one earlier comment on the same topic
from someone who does a lot of text messaging.  A *lot* of people are using
phones as stand-ins for computers, and a keyboard is essential for that.

 It could be relatively easy to add a keyboard if it was simply an added
hinged component, i.e. you had much the same shape, but it would be twice as
thick (and heavy) for those of us desperate to have keyboards, and it would
open on the long side, like the LG9800 or the ROAD phone.

 How do other people feel about this?


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Re: keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread Wil Chung


I actually rather like having just the touchscreen.  It means that the
keyboard isn't there when I don't need it when I'm viewing my applications.
I suppose part of the reason is because I still hunt and peck on my cell
phone, so I'm looking at the keypad anyway, so I don't care for tacile feel
of the keyboard.

I think there are ways around it, if that's the only reason people like
having keyboards.  For keyboard users, is it the pain of having to learn
something other than what you're use to?  I imagine if a new computer came
out without a keyboard, I'd probably be somewhat against it too.

I vote for touchscreen interfaces only, and feel that openmoko is going in
the right direction w/ the current design.

Wilhelm

On 1/23/07, Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


ti, 2007-01-23 kello 08:37 -0800, quixote kirjoitti:
 I'm a (future) user, and this phone is what I've been waiting for in
 so many ways.  Except one.  No option to buy one with a qwerty
 keyboard.

 Please, please, please re-think that. [...]
 How do other people feel about this?

I feel that it is futile at this point to ask for them to re-think
nontrivial design issues. What would be less futile is to make it a
wishlist item for future OpenMoko phones, which I'm pretty sure it is
already. Hopefully there will, in the future, be enough demand for a
variety of different models to be economically feasible.

That said, I'd also like a keyboard. I'll probably buy one, too, since
the phone does have BT, and there are small BT keyboards on the market.
(Incidentally, I do hope the default apps take into account that there
may be a keyboard present in addition to the touchscreen.)

--
Mikko Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
University of Helsinki


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Re: keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread Ted Lemon


On Jan 23, 2007, at 9:37 AM, quixote wrote:

How do other people feel about this?


I think it'd be a nice variant, but I'm glad it's not in the base  
model.   Bear in mind that there are some bitchen' bluetooth  
keyboards out there, like the ThinkOutside stowaway sierra.
Depending on your application this may or may not work - it's not so  
handy for just pulling the phone out of your pocket and IMing  
someone.   But for any serious typing, it's going to be a lot nicer,  
and a lot less likely to give you RSI injuries to your thumbs.



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Re: keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread Carlo E. Prelz

Subject: Re: keyboard, please!
Date: Tue 23 Jan 07 11:14:30AM -0600

Quoting Wil Chung ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

 I vote for touchscreen interfaces only, and feel that openmoko is going in
 the right direction w/ the current design.

We keyboard fans have been told on this list that in Q3-Q4 there will
be pleasant surprises for us... Would FIC wish to lose all karma
points in one go?

;-)

Carlo

-- 
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GPS Outage

2007-01-23 Thread Foucault de Bonneval


Hi,

after one week of subscription I'am impressed by how many ideas and
suggestions come every day. I'am sure that Neo will be one of the best
phone in the future. And as a non developper, I'am very sad to have to
wait for official launch :'(


just two points about GPS :
- will the Neo have a GPS connexion for an external antenna. Because
some car glass don't let signals go through and some people I know had
to buy antennas for Tomtom (pare brise athermique in French)
- will the V2 carry an FM reciever to get free live traffic (RDS I
think) information ?


Thanks to all for the ideas you are suggesting !!!

Regards,
Foucault
--
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Photos : Updated 22 mai 2006
http://foucault.debonneval.free.fr/mGallery/
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BTW could be the protocolls propritary and with the need to pay licence fees? Re: BT Vehicle Profiles

Salve Marcin, *!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:

 Dnia wtorek, 23 stycznia 2007 17:41, Duncan Hudson napisa?:
 1. Get any Linux powered device into car system range.
 2. Run 'hcitool scan'
 3. Identify line which match car system.
 4. Run 'sdptool browse ADDRESS_OF_CAR_SYSTEM|grep Service Name'
 5. Send us output
 
 My sony Ericsson k750i phone reports:
 
 Service Name: Dial-up Networking
 Service Name: Serial Port
 Service Name: HF Voice Gateway
 Service Name: HS Voice Gateway
 Service Name: OBEX Object Push
 Service Name: OBEX File Transfer
 Service Name: OBEX SyncML Client
 Service Name: OBEX IrMC Sync Server
 Service Name: Mouse  Keyboard

This sounds open and not propritrary. But does maybe there any
propritry protocolls out there which would costs licence fees?

Greetings,
rob

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Re: GPS Outage

Salve Foucault!

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Foucault de Bonneval wrote:
 just two points about GPS :
 - will the Neo have a GPS connexion for an external antenna. Because
 some car glass don't let signals go through and some people I know had
 to buy antennas for Tomtom (pare brise athermique in French)

Interesting point, but AGPS is working even inside buildings
the chip will make about 200.000 calculations parallel and so the
AGPS (assisted GPS) will be able to work even with low signal.
I can imagine that there is still enough signal in such cars.

And no. AFAIK it will have no atenna connector - and I think there
will be no need for it.

 - will the V2 carry an FM reciever to get free live traffic (RDS I
 think) information ?

Should be added on the V2 whishlist ;) 
Is there already one?

 Thanks to all for the ideas you are suggesting !!!
Adding ideas are important to 
- show how powerfull such an smartphone with an GNU/Linux SDK and AGPS
  will be
- and to avoid that companies block innovation by ask for patents for
  ideas - publishing ideas on this list will be a priory against such
  patents :)

So go on to write about your ideas and wishes :)

Real GPS Outage - I would like to see a falling back system
based on GSM cell info, but maybe also some day with digital radio
mondial and accurate time broadcasts so that the device could calculate
the position with the help of mw/ukw radio stations.


Greetings,
rob

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g quastions

2007-01-23 Thread Eugene Kozlov

Hello
Can somebody explain
What is about hardware licensing? Also open source? (shared pcb
schematics, etc.)
If there is plans to develop more cheap one to make possibility spread
this in africa, latin america, china, eastern europe.

For me for example mostly interesting simple cell phone with p2p voice
encryption and i no need other like multimedia features.
And if there is somebody to explain on voice encryption module:
architecture of processing of a voice stream, existing solution and
thinks... may be some links or datasheets
Does voice encryption possible on openmoko? (i have read previous posts
and dont really understand this)
Thanks

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Re: BTW could be the protocolls propritary and with the need to pay licence fees? Re: BT Vehicle Profiles

2007-01-23 Thread Marcin Juszkiewicz

Dnia wtorek, 23 stycznia 2007 18:46, Robert Michel napisał:

 But does maybe there any propritry protocolls out there which would
 costs licence fees? 

Maybe - we will see when we will get 'sdptool browse' output.

BTW.. Duncan: please send full output of this command rather - I remind 
that some devices use misc names for services..

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Re: BTW could be the protocolls propritary and with the need to pay licence fees? Re: BT Vehicle Profiles

2007-01-23 Thread David Ford


Some devices don't answer as expected :)

Scott ~ # hcitool scan
Scanning ...
   08:00:28:F3:E1:82   David Ford

Scott ~ # sdptool browse 08:00:28:F3:E1:82
Browsing 08:00:28:F3:E1:82 ...

Scott ~ # sdptool records 08:00:28:F3:E1:82 | grep Name
Service Name: Audio Video Remote Control Profile
Service Name: Voice Gateway
Service Name: Voice Gateway
Service Name: Serial Port
Service Name: Dial-up Networking

-david

Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote:

Dnia wtorek, 23 stycznia 2007 18:46, Robert Michel napisał:

  

But does maybe there any propritry protocolls out there which would
costs licence fees? 



Maybe - we will see when we will get 'sdptool browse' output.

BTW.. Duncan: please send full output of this command rather - I remind 
that some devices use misc names for services..


  


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Bluetooth Voice Dialing (and A2DP)

2007-01-23 Thread Jonathon Suggs

Just got signed up on the list, so sorry if this has been covered in
previous topics.  But one feature that I find to be very high priority
is the ability to use voice dialing over bluetooth and for it to be a
seamless experience.

So, first.  What is the status of the bluetooth on the phone?  What type
of hardware is it using and who is developing the stack?

Second, is there voice recognition software already developed for the
device?  If not, is someone working on it?  If so, can it be initiated
from the headset via bluetooth?

Last question, is A2DP implemented in the stack?  I feel that will be a
highly requested feature (down the road at least).

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Re: keyboard, please!

2007-01-23 Thread Wil Chung


Haha.  Well, I'd be interested to see how FIC pleases both crowds.  Two
separate models seem expensive to develop and design.  Perhaps not?  We'll
have to wait til Q3/4 then.

Wilhelm

On 1/23/07, Carlo E. Prelz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Subject: Re: keyboard, please!
Date: Tue 23 Jan 07 11:14:30AM -0600

Quoting Wil Chung ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

 I vote for touchscreen interfaces only, and feel that openmoko is going
in
 the right direction w/ the current design.

We keyboard fans have been told on this list that in Q3-Q4 there will
be pleasant surprises for us... Would FIC wish to lose all karma
points in one go?

;-)

Carlo

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Re: OpenMoko development environment (was: Re: Built in PIM app source?)

2007-01-23 Thread Torsten Röhl

Am Samstag, 20. Januar 2007 18:39 schrieb Sencer:
thank you, for the good link ...
i have two questions
i) gtk+ is c based (but i allways think in c++ ) do you think it's possible 
also use the gtk+ c++ bindings for neo1973? - or is this a bad idea...
ii) i read it's also possible to use gtk+  and c++ (with static callbacks) do 
you think maybe this would be possible on neo1973


- torsten 

  I would also like to see some type of tutorial for a 'hello world' on the
  neo, or if there's an emulator available right now, it'd be nice to play
  with.

 This should get you started:
 http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/


 Regards

 Sencer

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Re: app idea: where is my stuff (wims)


This is really neat idea - I've seen web projects that allow you to
'geotag' real-world objects (geotagthings.com and others), but this is
actually for your own purposes of tracking that item back down.
Perhaps you take a CD/DVD/Video game to a friend's house, or when
you're shopping you want to remember to come back and pick up that
outfit/TV/Equipment when you're by the mall again. Or, sporting event
season ticket seats (really getting to how good accuracy will the AGPS
have?)

While LBS mobile apps aren't new, the Neo will be one of the first to
expose the AGPS to client-side developers (besides Nextel, which
inspired Mologogo).

This is what makes it exciting :)
Andrew

On 1/23/07, Robin Farine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello everyone,

On my desktop machine, I like Tellico (a KDE application to manage
collections) to keep track of some of my stuff. On the Neo, I would
like something similar, a simple application that manages objects
consisting of, say, a set of custom properties and possibly with
some automatic grouping according to filters on properties.

And the AGPS provides the icing on the cake: a common example
is where the heck did I park my car. With this application, the
happy owner of a Neo would select the object representing his car
as he leaves it and hit a button to associate the Neo's current
position in space-time with it. Later, he could just select the car
object again and ask the Neo to show him the way.

Robin

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Re: security for wiki

2007-01-23 Thread Todd W



From: Sven Neuhaus [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

Ummm...  I just updated the OpenMoko/QuestionsAndAnswers to give a
brief introduction to the problems with trying to port PalmOS apps to
Linux.  I was able to do this completely anonymously.


That's one of the strong features of a wiki.


It is, but unfortunately it gets taken advantage of. Several of my favorite 
wiki's have been ruined by spam. Also see 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=spammed+wiki


One wiki was/is so important to me I volunteered some time digging through 
previous revisions to help clean it up. It took us a week.


Also, the ramifications extend farther than just the site now containing 
spam. If google finds spam in your site, they WILL deindex you:


http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t87997.html

Todd W.


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web browser

2007-01-23 Thread Nikita V. Youshchenko

Hello.

Is Neo going to have more or less featurefill web browser (e.g. with
javascript machine, etc)?

- what is minimo status? is it alive at all?

- any chances to get opera or netfront ports?


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Some thoughts: 1GB flash hack possible? Or why not shipping 1GB directly?

Salve,

Just some question and possible answer (I'm no expert):
what will be the difference beween the 64MB NAND Flash memory of the Neo
and 1GB NAND Flash inside a USB memory device I have bought for 12 Euro
like: http://www.priz24.de/product_info.php?products_id=1970 ?

So in case there will no nice surprice and the Neo1973 will be shipped with 1GB,
will it be possible to hack it ourself to 1GB and have an advice like 
buy this USB Flash memory?

I found no hack with buying an usb flash device for upgrading a phone,
a NSLU2 or a MP3 player - only this:
http://www.hackaday.com/2005/03/02/howto-nonviolent-ipod-shuffle-disassembly/
The link to samsung's pdf isn't working anymore

On this page they have a Product Portfolio overview
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/NANDFlash/index.htm
SLC(Small Block) 256,512Mbit and 1Gbit
SLC(Large Block) 1-32Gbit

Hmm 1GB SLC(Small Block) has 63 pins 8.5x15mm
and 1GB SLC(Large Block) has 48 pins 12x17mm

Beside the different Operating Voltage, do I guess right,
that with 12x17mm = 204mm^2 and 8.5x15mm =127.5 size matters
and it the flash chip is a Small Block - and 1GB would be the
maximum for that design that samsung could offer?

So that a hack could only upgrade to 128MB flash?
And that Small Block with 1GBit are not normaly in USB flash devices
and that this chips are much more expensive than 12 Euro?
Ergo it would worth to hack it?

Ah and when the flash will be FPGA like the SoC - there will be no
memory hardware hacking for most of us...

So when there will be no chance for us for hardware hacking the memory,
maybe the restiction has a positive effect:
1. we will concentrate on software hacking 
2. due the limitation we got a motivation to do this efficient 
:))

Does anybody knows more?
Greetings,
rob










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Re: web browser

2007-01-23 Thread soeren

Hi,

sorry, I don't know the status, but for opera you probably just need to
ask the opera guys to compile it for our architecture (i386 won't work
here).

besides, there's a konqueror version from handhelds.org called
konqueror embedded - i'm not sure if that's developed any further, but
it certainly adds qt blob (we're using gtk), so at the end you'll
probably waste as much space  ram, as with any other browser.

- soeren


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Re: BT Vehicle Profiles

2007-01-23 Thread Brad Midgley


I volunteer to fix this. I just need your car for six months.


The vehicle in question is a Range Rover HSE. The car isn't mine, it's
 a company car. The phone in question is one of the phones that I have
 to support so logically the fact that they won't connect is my problem!
 My thinking was, get the OpenMoko to connect, move the user to it,
 and be done with this headache!
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Re: Free Your Phone

2007-01-23 Thread Sean Moss-Pultz

On 1/22/07 5:28 PM, Milan Votava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Never has this project been about exploiting people. If you ready _any_ of
 our documents you will find that we're trying to create an open ecosystem
 for the mobile industry. Sure I hope this will make us money. Otherwise I
 would have neither A) the credit or B) the financial resources to go on
 pursuing my dreams.
 
 -Sean
 
 (sorry for my English)
 
 Don't get me wrong. I like (and share) your idea and I will try to be
 among the first wave of people who will buy the device (if I will be
 allowed after my post ;-) ) and start to develop for it.

Then why claim that I'm trying to exploit people?
 
 The only problem I have as a developer with the project is it's real
 identity. Today in the time of a 'new' internet economy is becoming
 very common to use communities as a part of a business plan and
 camouflage this step as another open source geeky projects (like the
 ones hosted on sourceforge etc). While I have no problem to invest my
 energy and free time to work on these enthusiastic projects I will
 be(maybe as a only one in this group) more careful to do the same for
 the project where my position will be reduced to become a member of
 an external workforce (from the perspective of you or the company
 behind it) who is not even on a payroll.

I fear that this is getting into a Free Will type argument. Nobody's
holding a gun to your head and saying Develop for OpenMoko or your dead.
What you do with our code is your choice. That's what GPL is all about.
 
 I don't see anything arrogant on my post and I consider my question
 as a legitimate one in the context of a really open community.

I now understand that English is not your native tongue. Please forgive me
directness, being a foreigner myself, I understand what it's like to use the
wrong words unintentionally ;-)

Exploit 


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Re: Free Your Phone

2007-01-23 Thread Sean Moss-Pultz

[sorry, I pressed the wrong button before I finished]

On 1/22/07 5:28 PM, Milan Votava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 At 05:35 22.1.2007, you wrote:
 On 1/22/07 4:58 AM, Milan Votava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 It would be nice to know if Sean's aim is
 
 1. to satisfy his and our need for open source toys like Neo
 
 or
 
 2. to earn money like almost everybody on this planet while
 exploiting geeks like us to achieve his goal :-)
 
 
 I bet the second will prove as true...
 
 I wasn't going to respond to this email, but I find your response quite
 arrogant and feel I need correct you.
 
 Never has this project been about exploiting people. If you ready _any_ of
 our documents you will find that we're trying to create an open ecosystem
 for the mobile industry. Sure I hope this will make us money. Otherwise I
 would have neither A) the credit or B) the financial resources to go on
 pursuing my dreams.
 
 -Sean
 
 (sorry for my English)
 
 Don't get me wrong. I like (and share) your idea and I will try to be
 among the first wave of people who will buy the device (if I will be
 allowed after my post ;-) ) and start to develop for it.
 
 The only problem I have as a developer with the project is it's real
 identity. Today in the time of a 'new' internet economy is becoming
 very common to use communities as a part of a business plan and
 camouflage this step as another open source geeky projects (like the
 ones hosted on sourceforge etc). While I have no problem to invest my
 energy and free time to work on these enthusiastic projects I will
 be(maybe as a only one in this group) more careful to do the same for
 the project where my position will be reduced to become a member of
 an external workforce (from the perspective of you or the company
 behind it) who is not even on a payroll.
 
 
 (sorry for my English)
 
 Don't get me wrong. I like (and share) your idea and I will try to be
 among the first wave of people who will buy the device (if I will be
 allowed after my post ;-) ) and start to develop for it.

Then why claim that I'm trying to exploit people?
 
 The only problem I have as a developer with the project is it's real
 identity. Today in the time of a 'new' internet economy is becoming
 very common to use communities as a part of a business plan and
 camouflage this step as another open source geeky projects (like the
 ones hosted on sourceforge etc). While I have no problem to invest my
 energy and free time to work on these enthusiastic projects I will
 be(maybe as a only one in this group) more careful to do the same for
 the project where my position will be reduced to become a member of
 an external workforce (from the perspective of you or the company
 behind it) who is not even on a payroll.

I fear that this is getting into a Free Will type argument. Nobody's
holding a gun to your head and saying Develop for OpenMoko or your dead.
What you do with our code is your choice. That's what GPL is all about.
 
 I don't see anything arrogant on my post and I consider my question
 as a legitimate one in the context of a really open community.

I now understand that English is not your native tongue. Please forgive my
directness, being a foreigner myself, I understand what it's like to use the
wrong words unintentionally ;-)

Exploit used in the context of people, is something not to be taking
lightly. I _really_ don't want to come across as guy trying to exploit
others for my personal benefit. Creating this project was not for
exploitation. I sincerely want to see an open phone because I think it will
benefit many people, including myself.

But again, if you still feel this is exploitation, there are many companies
making closed phones. Go buy one of them.

-Sean






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Re: Free Your Phone

2007-01-23 Thread Corey

On Tuesday 23 January 2007 17:35, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
 On 1/22/07 5:28 PM, Milan Votava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Then why claim that I'm trying to exploit people?
 

Well, in his defence - and for whatever it's worth - when I read his 
post, I immediately took exploit in the more positive usage of the 
term, i.e. definition #1:

 ex·ploit Pronunciation (ksploit, k-sploit)
n.
1.  To employ to the greatest possible advantage
2.  To make use of selfishly or unethically

Perhaps he did in fact mean #2, which would have been pretty uncool
and totally off the mark. I think it's more than clear that you and your team
are 120% sincere and serious when it comes to the open/free aspects of
the OpenMoko model.

The geek community is going to be employed to the greatest possible
advantage _naturally_ - through the sheer merits of the OpenMoko 
platform itself, and through the community that's bound to prosper 
around it.


Beers!

Corey

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Re: Free Your Phone

2007-01-23 Thread Marcus Bauer

On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 08:42 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:

 Exploit used in the context of people, is something not to be taking
 lightly. I _really_ don't want to come across as guy trying to exploit
 others for my personal benefit. Creating this project was not for
 exploitation. I sincerely want to see an open phone because I think it will
 benefit many people, including myself.

Linus Torvalds once jokingly said: I am your god.

god is probably a bit exaggerated, but I'm sure a majority here agrees
to say: 

You are our hero!


Keep up the great work.

Marcus


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Idea: Desktop wakeup on user proximity


So when I walk into my office in the morning my computer wakes the
monitor and logs in, opens up a browser with slashdot, etc.

So when I walk towards my house at night, my computer is already cuing
up some music for me.

Detection could be via GPS/data connection, but in many workplaces,
bluetooth detection could be sufficient, plus your Neo only needs to
start up bluetooth when it already knows that it is close to an
activation spot.

Richard

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Re: Idea: Desktop wakeup on user proximity

2007-01-23 Thread Robert McQueen

This already does half of what you want:
 http://matthew.ath.cx/projects/bluemon/

The problem with this kind of thing is that bluetooth really guzzles the
battery of your phone, especially when the computer sits there pinging
it every few seconds. Activating bluetooth based on the location is a
really smart idea though, but doesn't quite address the knowing when
you've gone away side of things - GPS probably isn't quite accurate
enough to know when you're moving away but are still within sight of the
computer, and you wouldn't want it to only lock your screen once you'd
walked 50m down the road.

Regards,
Rob

Richard Franks wrote:
 So when I walk into my office in the morning my computer wakes the
 monitor and logs in, opens up a browser with slashdot, etc.
 
 So when I walk towards my house at night, my computer is already cuing
 up some music for me.
 
 Detection could be via GPS/data connection, but in many workplaces,
 bluetooth detection could be sufficient, plus your Neo only needs to
 start up bluetooth when it already knows that it is close to an
 activation spot.
 
 Richard
 
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idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer

2007-01-23 Thread Tehn Yit Chin


Not too sure how doable this is, but how about having a 3axis
accelerometer in the 2nd generation of the Neo? This will give us the
ability to link hand movements as command sets, sort of like mouse
gestures but in a 3d space.

The obvious usage is for 3d gestures command the phone, eg shake the
phone three times to answer when a calls comes in, or move the phone
in a cross motion to put it into do not disturb mode.

cheers,
tyc

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Re: Idea: Desktop wakeup on user proximity

2007-01-23 Thread David Ford

Actually this idea is already in use.  Set up your Bluetooth to 
lock/unlock your desktop when you are in the vicinity of it etc.


:)

Richard Franks wrote:

So when I walk into my office in the morning my computer wakes the
monitor and logs in, opens up a browser with slashdot, etc.

So when I walk towards my house at night, my computer is already cuing
up some music for me.

Detection could be via GPS/data connection, but in many workplaces,
bluetooth detection could be sufficient, plus your Neo only needs to
start up bluetooth when it already knows that it is close to an
activation spot.

Richard

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Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer

2007-01-23 Thread Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa


Hi!

Too much trouble.. the phone could get confused when you
walk/run/jump, or when you are in a car/bus.

But guess what: it could be an excellent excersize partner, by
measuring an approximation of your walk.

I could also suggest adding temperature/HR sensor (really good, from
sensirion, I use them a lot), and, off course, a pressure sensor for
atmosferic pressure, and it is cheap as well.
but I think that it would make the phone my geek thing, and these
features are not really a plus for most people.

too bad :( ... anyway, I'll just build my everything measurer :P, I
know I can :) .  I will add every sensor I can get for free (samples).

Hope this helps,

Ildefonso Camargo

On 1/23/07, Tehn Yit Chin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Not too sure how doable this is, but how about having a 3axis
accelerometer in the 2nd generation of the Neo? This will give us the
ability to link hand movements as command sets, sort of like mouse
gestures but in a 3d space.

The obvious usage is for 3d gestures command the phone, eg shake the
phone three times to answer when a calls comes in, or move the phone
in a cross motion to put it into do not disturb mode.

cheers,
tyc

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Re: Idea: Desktop wakeup on user proximity


On 1/23/07, David Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Actually this idea is already in use.  Set up your Bluetooth to
lock/unlock your desktop when you are in the vicinity of it etc.

:)


Ha! I thought it sounded a bit too obvious. We get to enchance the
idea with GPS though.. hmm - two new uses:
1) GPS location looks like I'm a few minutes from the office on a
workday - start coffee machine through a relay.
2) Need Insurance $$$ - start coffee machine through a relay, repeat

Richard



Richard Franks wrote:
 So when I walk into my office in the morning my computer wakes the
 monitor and logs in, opens up a browser with slashdot, etc.

 So when I walk towards my house at night, my computer is already cuing
 up some music for me.

 Detection could be via GPS/data connection, but in many workplaces,
 bluetooth detection could be sufficient, plus your Neo only needs to
 start up bluetooth when it already knows that it is close to an
 activation spot.

 Richard

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Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer

2007-01-23 Thread kkr

I think the idea is good! 

But why only one? 


With one 3-axis accelerometer, we detect a move in the space XYZ: We
move our arm.

If we use 3 3-axis accelerometer (one in each angle of a triangle), we
can detect more movements: We can detect if the neo turn over himself
(with no global XYZ move).

For exemple, we can detect too, movements as:
 1.  a rotation of the hand
 2.  waves with the hand (not like hello, but more as approximately)
 ...

Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's
chips on the market now?


Regards,



Le mercredi 24 janvier 2007 à 12:50 +1100, Tehn Yit Chin a écrit :
 Not too sure how doable this is, but how about having a 3axis
 accelerometer in the 2nd generation of the Neo? This will give us the
 ability to link hand movements as command sets, sort of like mouse
 gestures but in a 3d space.
 
 The obvious usage is for 3d gestures command the phone, eg shake the
 phone three times to answer when a calls comes in, or move the phone
 in a cross motion to put it into do not disturb mode.
 
 cheers,
 tyc
 
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Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer