RE: [SVHMPC] Phone Call Security
ious eavesdropper. This is distinct from the > > existing GSM security services which protect only the over the air > > portion of the comm link. > > > > Approaches to end to end security on GSM phones started with layering > > voice data over the GSM data channel. There are some significant issues > > with this approach. First is obviously that you've got to have a phone > > that can be programmed to channel encrypted voice data across the GSM > > data channel. But, this message is going out to a community that groks > > this concept, so the only thing I'll say is... if we do something like > > this, let's fully specify what we do so people working on other > > programmable phones can interoperate with us. > > > > Next is the issue of carrier support. I don't know if it's still an > > issue, but in the olden days it seemed that Cingular required you to > > call them up and explicitly activate your GSM data line. Then at the end > > of the month, they would turn it off requiring you to call up and get it > > activated again. But that's less of an issue these days as we move into > > an era where we have EDGE now and HSDPA on the horizon. > > > > But... the issue of latency is important. The GSM data channel has > > terrible latency characteristics. Products like the CryptoPhone > > (http://cryptophone.de/ ) suffer from this. If your latency is too high, > > the delay makes a normal conversation virtually impossible. You wind up > > having to say "over" after each thing you say to tell the other person > > it's okay for them to speak. This is okay if you're a whacked out > > cypherpunk who gets off on acting like a spy, but having been in the > > military already, it's just annoying for me to have a half duplex > channel. > > > > EDGE latency characteristics can be better than GSM data, but there's a > > fair amount of variability in EDGE latency. Sometimes it's high, > > sometimes it's low. Ditto for EVDO. > > > > A couple years ago Nick Lane-Smith gave a presentation at DefCon about > > doing putting encrypted voice over "data over GSM voice." More info at: > > > > http://www.hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Data_over_GSM_Voice > > > > The last I heard about this project, they discovered they couldn't get > > enough throughput to maintain a voice channel, encrypted or otherwise. > > > > All this and we haven't even talked about SIP over DTLS and SRTP... > > > > -Cheers > > -Matt H. > > > > On Jun 3, 2007, at 6:08 AM, Mikko Rauhala wrote: > > > >> su, 2007-06-03 kello 07:08 +0200, Ortwin Regel kirjoitti: > >>> IIRC there has been lots of discussion about this a few months back. > >>> Take a look at the mailing list archives or the wiki if you can find > >>> it! > >> > >> Spesifically, see subjects "Voice over GPRS?" and "Encrypting > >> voice communications" in the February archive page at > >> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/thread.html > >> > >> Summary: Possible to code support for this using GSM data calls (not > GSM > >> voice calls due to GSM chip restrictions), which come with the quality > >> of service GPRS lacks. May cost a bit extra depending on your provider. > >> Compatibility with cryptophone.de probably possible, since their > >> protocol seems to be up for reimplementation. Either way, at least > >> Moko-to-Moko encrypted calls are quite possible to implement, just that > >> somebody (TM) needs to do the work. > >> > >> --Mikko Rauhala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> University of Helsinki > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> OpenMoko community mailing list > >> community@lists.openmoko.org > >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > ___ > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > > ___ > SVHMPC mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://telefono.revejo.org/mailman/listinfo/svhmpc_telefono.revejo.org > > __ NOD32 2308 (20070604) Information __ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com Paul A. Lambert CTO, Picomobile Networks Inc. 256 Gibraltar Drive, Ste 108 Sunnyvale, CA, 94089 cell: +1-650-787-9141 skype: paulatpico ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
If your tracking movement with 2 3D accelerometers... What would another one provide. As far as I can tell (I am not an expert...) Tracking all 6 vectors will tell you absolute movement in space. I.e, when 2 vectors point in the same direction with the same magnitude at approximately the same acceleration as gravity.. Its probably laying or positioned flat on that side. If they vary and you have 4 vectors.. (Necessary when its tilted beyond the error amount...) You can figure out its orientation and angle. If its spinning around its center (and assuming that the accelerometers are on opposite ends...) Then at least 4 vectors will point away from each other at approximately the same magnitude as its opposite but matched vector. (The other 2 may point down or up depending on if its spun flat or thrown or dropped. But they should be the same for a flat spin..) All vectors should be able to tell you the moment of movement and the phones basic translation in space... Especially if you keep track of the last known states... Right? I mean if we know the rest orientation and then suddenly get pointed at something it would seem like the 3d vectors will show a specific values and directions for the 2 ends of the phone depending on the center of the arc or movement that acted on the phone. I would say that we can get yaw, pitch and roll just fine.. But again, I am no expert. --Tim On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 18:38, kkr wrote: If I well understand, three accelerometers are necessary to fully define all phone's movements. Isn't it? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005216.html So, what's the reason to have only two, and not three 3D accelerometers? - the cost?... 3 $US (But I don't know if it's a 2D or 3D chip). http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/002085.html - the lack of free space? - ... Is-it a 3D or a 2D chip? Regards, ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why not taking pre-orders?
Hear! Hear!! I've been waiting for months for the first phones! I'd be happy to pre-order for 2 reasons: 1) to guarantee i'd be getting a phone as soon as possible 2) to get some much-needed cash in the hands of FIC and OpenMoko to keep things moving in the right direction Please let us know if this is possible! On 6/4/07, andy selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It seems to me that the OpenMoko project is waiting to have usable phones before accepting peoples money, this is an "order", not a pre-order that the wiki says there's a possibility of. O.K. so there's only a possibility but I'd be willing to part with $350 (~£175) now (or back in march actually) so that OpenMoko can turn some of those volunteers into paid employees, hire some more open source devs or QA testers and judging by the buying interest list there's plenty more willing to do the same. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
There are two 3D accelerometers according to the talk at Tossug. -Steven On 6/4/07, kkr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: If I well understand, three accelerometers are necessary to fully define all phone's movements. Isn't it? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005216.html So, what's the reason to have only two, and not three 3D accelerometers? - the cost?... 3 $US (But I don't know if it's a 2D or 3D chip). http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/002085.html - the lack of free space? - ... Is-it a 3D or a 2D chip? Regards, Le dimanche 03 juin 2007 à 17:00 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And the finally thing everybody has been asking for: > 2 Accelerometers. F**k yeah. Looking forward to it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
If I well understand, three accelerometers are necessary to fully define all phone's movements. Isn't it? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-May/005216.html So, what's the reason to have only two, and not three 3D accelerometers? - the cost?... 3 $US (But I don't know if it's a 2D or 3D chip). http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/002085.html - the lack of free space? - ... Is-it a 3D or a 2D chip? Regards, Le dimanche 03 juin 2007 à 17:00 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > And the finally thing everybody has been asking for: > 2 Accelerometers. F**k yeah. Looking forward to it. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
2D or 3D chip? Regards, Le mercredi 24 janvier 2007 à 19:33 +0800, Sean Moss-Pultz a écrit : > On 1/24/07 11:41 AM, "kkr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Does anybody know more about price and precision of the accelerometers's > > chips on the market now? > > About US$3. > > -Sean ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phone Call Security
Since all of the communications of a cell phone are digital (nothing is analog between mic and speaker), encrypting the voice data stream should be rather trivial (at least is in my understanding of the universe), even if you have to resort to implementing a "virtual" mic device that emits an encrypted sound stream. As I understand it, the hard part is doing key exchange, because for effective fast encryption you frequently swap out mid-sized symmetric keys that are traded using asymmetric encryption (right? correct me if I'm wrong). Since you can't easily do this over the voice channel, and you can't reliably fit the voice over the data channel, and you can't have both active simultaneously (or even intermittently), then you have a problem. But what about the recently announced wifi capabilities of P2 phones? This could make encrypted calls possible, and has an added security bonus. In secure VoIP setups, we have authentication, key exchange, and voice stream which are all sent over the same carrier. If you use the wifi capabilities of the Neo, then you have authentication and key exchange (wifi) done out-of-band from the voice stream (GSM). This means that when the "bad guys" are some government, they have to tap two entirely different and separate networks to have even a remote chance of knowing what all you are communicating (let alone actually decrypting it). The latency of the encryption, as long as it can be kept under about .5 seconds, really isn't all that noticeable in practice. Try calling a land-line from a cell phone in the same room, and you will usually notice anywhere from a .25 to 1.5 second delay. I've had cell phone to cell phone calls that exceeded a 2 second delay, and the effect wasn't even noticeable until the two of us are in the same room. If someone INSISTS on a secure line, an added .5 second delay will hardly be a concern considering the advantages. Just my two cents. ~Bradley Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: > Encrypted voice calls is a question that's been around for a while. When > I worked for RSA and later Certicom, we had frequent discussions about > the strength (or lack thereof) of the LFSR-based encryption that was > then in frequent use in GSM phones. > > I should probably mention that GSM and CDMA provide over the air > authentication and confidentiality services. So if you're worried about > bad guys cloning or eavesdropping on your phone calls (or text > messages), you're safe already. > > Now... if your definition of "bad guys" includes the people who have > operational control over the GSM network, then the story gets a little > more complicated. Now, before you start saying, "oh, Matt's just being > paranoid" or "oh, Matt's going to say something that will help the > terrorists," let me just remind you that outside the US, there's some > pretty clear evidence that national governments are eavesdropping on the > conversations of traveling tech company executives and passing economic > intelligence along to competing companies in their own nations. So > end-to-end encryption is an issue that's near and dear not only to the > hearts of the bleeding heart liberals at the EFF, but also the > uber-industrialists of the far right. > > "End to end" security is the term used to describe confidentiality and > origin integrity services that provide assurance that the two endpoints > in a communication are a) really talking to the person they think > they're talking to, and b) the content of the call is not being > intercepted by a malicious eavesdropper. This is distinct from the > existing GSM security services which protect only the over the air > portion of the comm link. > > Approaches to end to end security on GSM phones started with layering > voice data over the GSM data channel. There are some significant issues > with this approach. First is obviously that you've got to have a phone > that can be programmed to channel encrypted voice data across the GSM > data channel. But, this message is going out to a community that groks > this concept, so the only thing I'll say is... if we do something like > this, let's fully specify what we do so people working on other > programmable phones can interoperate with us. > > Next is the issue of carrier support. I don't know if it's still an > issue, but in the olden days it seemed that Cingular required you to > call them up and explicitly activate your GSM data line. Then at the end > of the month, they would turn it off requiring you to call up and get it > activated again. But that's less of an issue these days as we move into > an era where we have EDGE now and HSDPA on the horizon. > > But... the issue of latency is important. The GSM data channel has > terrible latency characteristics. Products like the CryptoPhone > (http://cryptophone.de/ ) suffer from this. If your latency is too high, > the delay makes a normal conversation virtually impossible. You wind up > having to say "over" after each thing you say to tell
Re: Apple iPhone ads
I noticed a funny phrase in the tossug video: "Because desktop computing assumes that we only have butts" ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phone Call Security
CALEA amd such impose mandates on communications providers, not end users. In fact, one of the popular ideas floating around right now to deal with the CALEA mandate is to simply tell all of your users to turn on IPSEC, which is host-based, and then the feds can tap whatever they want. CALEA (specifically) doesn't require that the communications providers produce a way to use the information on a network, they are simply required to give the feds access to everything flowing over the network. If the network operator does not have the means to decrypt it, it's the feds problem (under present interpretations). Of course, for this cop-out to work, the network operator really does need to avoid controlling the means to decrypt stuff, specifically the private keys on the PKI certificates. ~Bradley Florent THIERY wrote: > An option would be some kind of "push-to-talk" : record mp3, crypt > mp3, PUT mp3 (on a webserver/scp) -- download mp3, decrypt, listen. > > I'm not sure this would circumvent the legislative context; for > instance, is writing encrypted sms illegal ? (i mean, by hand...) > > Regards > > Florent > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
Indeed, people want features, not only ideology. The ideology part is a great aspect for free software advocates, but is a mainstream consumer aware of it, would he care at first sight ? No; a lot of people buy fair trade coffee if it has a good taste (apart of the little taste of freedom :p). I mean, a neo looks like a great device, but so far it's mainly a regular "smartphone"; if the project continues to improve, one day the neo will do what linux is best at: full network integration (fuse filesystems are a good example i think), disruptive ideas (we'll soon have hardware-accelerated graphics, a GPS, as well as accelerators... plenty of room for work and innovation in the UI part ! ), and fun, human applications. But it's not for tomorrow... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phone Call Security
[Recipients list pruned...] ti, 2007-06-05 kello 01:14 +0200, Florent THIERY kirjoitti: > An option would be some kind of "push-to-talk" : record mp3, crypt > mp3, PUT mp3 (on a webserver/scp) -- download mp3, decrypt, listen. Yeah, this has been discussed also. One could stick it on top of Jabber for instance, gpg encrypted. (Though speex is a more attractive codec for both freedom and technical reasons here.) Or, as has been suggested as wiser for latency reasons, create a TLS tunnel (possibly via a proxy server since the phones may be behind NAT or otherwise inaccessible) for the first message, send it through that, keep tunnel open for subsequent messages. With gnutls, the TLS tunnel could be authenticated with endpoints' gpg keys, which would provide nice integration with E-mail and file encryption identities. > I'm not sure this would circumvent the legislative context; for > instance, is writing encrypted sms illegal ? (i mean, by hand...) You're not violating laws by using encryption for your purposes in any civilized country; even in France it's okay nowadays. Though you may have issues in some wannabe big brother countries like the UK if you don't turn over your keys to the police if they want them. Consult a local lawyer. -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/> Transhumanist - WTA member - http://www.transhumanism.org/> Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - http://www.singinst.org/> ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phone Call Security
An option would be some kind of "push-to-talk" : record mp3, crypt mp3, PUT mp3 (on a webserver/scp) -- download mp3, decrypt, listen. I'm not sure this would circumvent the legislative context; for instance, is writing encrypted sms illegal ? (i mean, by hand...) Regards Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
agree...hype leads to vapor :) jump into the contributing, do blog it and help move forward, but mos def think the program waves should come when there are major announcements... Jon -Original Message- From: Dean Collins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 11:56 AM To: Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; el jefe delito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: RE: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday! Yep my thoughts exactly - wait until the product is out before trying to hype it any more. Enough people know about it already. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +1-917-207-3420 Mb +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Thompson > Sent: Monday, 4 June 2007 2:43 PM > To: el jefe delito > Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org > Subject: Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday! > > el jefe delito wrote: > > > I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being > > open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being > > unlocked, being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are > > benefits that we must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, > > the higher on the Comments list we will be and the more reads that > > comment will get. No one reads Comment #154267 > > > > Thoughts? > > We need hardware, (and far better softare), not hype. > > Comments don't sell phones, applications do. > > Once we have functional hardware, we can create better software, and the > combination of these is far better than any amount of hype or PR. > > Devices like the FIC Neo1973 can be difficult to engineer, so Sean, we > understand. > > Jim > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice/Command recongnition
Or http://wiki.tuxisalive.com/index.php/Speech_recognition ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
I imagine some creative programmer could offload some GPS calculations into 3D space... just an idea if the GPU is very efficient. ~Bradley Attila Csipa wrote: > On Monday 04 June 2007 11:03, Florent THIERY wrote: >>> My guess is that the primary application of that chip will be audio/video >>> reproduction, and perhaps some blitting improvements, the 3D part is just >>> bonus/eyecandy material. >> I do not agree with you: the neo currently struggles with 2D drawing; >> a real (understand: usable) zooming user interface has to achieve >> fluid un/zooming, so that the zooming metaphor applies to our > > Most of the time blitting = 2D :) But seriously, even window zooming isn't > real 3D, and I'm not sure that you want an extra chip there just for > aqua/beryl-like eyecandy. Of course, if you already have that chip there for > other reasons, like image processing, H264, hardware MP3/AAC and blitting) it > wont hurt to add some extra coolness :) > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SVHMPC] concept phone with only a touchscreen for UI
A possible solution for this has been discussed under an accessibility thread. The Maestro is a simple (yet effective) clip-on cover for PocketPCs. There are a few different versions of it, which work with various different brands and models of PocketPCs. Check out a picture at: http://www.engadget.com/2004/07/01/the-maestro-visuaides-pocket-pc-for-the-blind/ The device is simply real buttons that, when pressed, place pressure on a specific portion of the underlaying touchscreen. Real tactile feedback without any hardware modifications to the underlaying device. A software UI written to coincide with the specific button pattern is the only thing needed. You also get the advantage of very specific pressure points, allowing you to cram more "hot" areas into the UI than when using direct finger input. Now, what would be novel and cool for the Neo is if we could design a clip-on device that was also mostly (or completely) transparent, so the screen could be visible while still providing the tactile interface. Keeping some of the various disabilities in mind while designing the Neo & OpenMoko could really make it a hit in this sector. Pretty much every phone solution out there for the blind is a real hack job, a system capable of catering directly to these folks would be welcome. (FYI, I work at a school for the blind). ~Bradley Chris Palmer wrote: > Interesting ideas, but I'm not sure that any adequately handle the > tactile needs of a touch typist. Without looking at the keys, I can > feel the nubs on the home keys on my phone's mini qwerty to get lined up > again. I also have the same concern with using a laser projected > keyboard (even tho potentially high on the coolness scale). With just a > big flat surface then there's no way to keep you lined up on your keys > at speed. I type pretty fast on my mini qwerty. All my personal email > for the last few years have been 99.9% written on this thing, including > this one. > > -Chris > > On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 2:10 pm, Jon Phillips wrote: >> On Sat, 2007-06-02 at 13:35 -0700, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: >>> Well... for a while I was thinking about implanting a strong magnet >>> under the skin in one of my fingers to detect alternating current. >>> There are a few people out there who have done this and they say they >>> can feel a very mild wiggle when the magnet comes near a wire carrying >>> AC. It might be possible to detect the current going through the >>> touchscreen as you make contact with it. >>> >>> But that's probably not a mainstream solution. >> >> That sounds like a stelarc solution: >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stelarc >> >> What about a glove or thimble that you could put on your finger? >> >> How much does vibration tech. kill the battery on phones? >> >> Some type of current detection sounds interesting... >> >> Jon >> >>> On Jun 2, 2007, at 1:11 PM, Jon Phillips wrote: >>> >>> > Yes, it seems pretty clear that screens are the way forward rather >>> > than >>> > >>> > moving parts. I've seen a few solutions to the tactile feedback >>> > issue, >>> > >>> > with the main being have the phone vibrate slightly upon key press, >>> > >>> > along with sounds. >>> > >>> > >>> > Matthew (and others), have you heard of others? >>> > >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> OpenMoko community mailing list >>> community@lists.openmoko.org >>> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> -- >> Jon Phillips >> >> San Francisco, CA >> USA PH 510.499.0894 >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://www.rejon.org >> >> MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto >> Jabber Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
I think we need to wait. When the neo1973 has matured a bit and has worked out the mojor kinks it will generate attention on it's own, which we can then strengthen. But right now I don't think it would really have an impact. We don't know the final release date, the software on it which is the biggest part of the phone is not worked out yet. And when the phone is released that's when the magic happens. The community will come alive. Programs will be developed for the phone that we haven't even thought of yet. And then interest will be generated. Plus we will be excited about our phone, we will be excited about moding them and doing what we want with the phone, in essance freeing our phone. Then I believe it will explode. I think it's a good idea to spread the word about the neo1973 but I don't think getting or starting hype now is important or needed. I just don't see the usefulness of it now. But that's just my opinion. Matt On 6/4/07, Danijel Orsolic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'll chip in here for once. :) I agree with what some have said that we should better wait before the phone is actually a finished product we can point to (including a web site or store where people can easily buy it). However in the meantime I think we should think about the marketing subject, build up the marketing machine, so to speak, which we will use once the phone is out. It's basically just preparation. I've recently started a web site (http://www.mobiliberty.com) which was to focus on phones like Neo1973, open in nature, powered by Free Software and Free Standards, but guess what, it hasn't been such a big success and there just aren't enough stories around for the site to really have much meat to chew on. Right now I'm basically working away on my other projects and leaving that site for some sort of a revision until a day comes when the world of open mobiles will really be interesting enough for one news/blog site to prosper out of it (and a day when I will own one to talk about first hand too ;) ). In other words, I'm waiting for Neo1973 to come out and make a mark. And I would be willing to help that happen. Someone mentioned an OpenMoko site in Hungary. I think that's a very good idea. We should have as many countries covered as possible. I'm from Croatia (neighbouring Hungary) and perhaps opening a Croatian OpenMoko site would be a good idea too, though that would depend on the market here I suppose, which might not be as big on FOSS related stuff as Hungary. Anyway, the overall point is, we can start thinking about it, making plans and preparations, laying out the structure we need to make Neo1973 a worldwide hit once it comes out. I also hope and expect FIC will invest considerable effort in this regard. They are making and selling these phones after all. It's their brand on it! Cheers Danijel On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:27:38 -0500 "el jefe delito" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Regardless of where the hardware and software are right now, I would imagine > that they both will be further along come release date. But, outside of > this community and the few people that remember us telling them about the > FIC Neo1973 and the OpenMoko platform, who knows about this phone or > platform? > > Slashdot and NYTimes and many other sites have articles about the Apple > iPhone, but very rarely is the Neo1973 mentioned. We, the OpenMoko > community, are interested in these articles too (I would imagine), and yet > no one ever posts a comment about the Neo1973 (except me, it seems). If we > don't get the mainstream press to write about the Neo1973, we (or FIC) are > going to have a difficult time selling devices and getting out there. If > they (press) won't write about the Neo1973, the least we can do is mention > the Neo1973 in the reader comments, with a link to the wiki. > > Here is one such article from just this weekend. The iPhone will be getting > a lot of coverage, and as different as the two philosophies may be, the > average person on the street will see the two phones as very similar. If we > have a great feature comparison, why not let people know?? > http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/fever-builds-for-iphone-anxiety-too/ > > I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being > open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being unlocked, > being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are benefits that we > must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, the higher on the > Comments list we will be and the more reads that comment will get. No one > reads Comment #154267 > > Thoughts? > > -- > start using Free software > http://www.linux.org > http://www.fsf.org > It's a matter of Liberty not Price: > "Free Software exists to free you from the artificial constraints set by > Apple and Microsoft. Free software is Unrestricted software. Get Free." > ___ OpenMoko community mailin
Why not taking pre-orders?
It seems to me that the OpenMoko project is waiting to have usable phones before accepting peoples money, this is an "order", not a pre-order that the wiki says there's a possibility of. O.K. so there's only a possibility but I'd be willing to part with $350 (~£175) now (or back in march actually) so that OpenMoko can turn some of those volunteers into paid employees, hire some more open source devs or QA testers and judging by the buying interest list there's plenty more willing to do the same. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
I'll chip in here for once. :) I agree with what some have said that we should better wait before the phone is actually a finished product we can point to (including a web site or store where people can easily buy it). However in the meantime I think we should think about the marketing subject, build up the marketing machine, so to speak, which we will use once the phone is out. It's basically just preparation. I've recently started a web site (http://www.mobiliberty.com) which was to focus on phones like Neo1973, open in nature, powered by Free Software and Free Standards, but guess what, it hasn't been such a big success and there just aren't enough stories around for the site to really have much meat to chew on. Right now I'm basically working away on my other projects and leaving that site for some sort of a revision until a day comes when the world of open mobiles will really be interesting enough for one news/blog site to prosper out of it (and a day when I will own one to talk about first hand too ;) ). In other words, I'm waiting for Neo1973 to come out and make a mark. And I would be willing to help that happen. Someone mentioned an OpenMoko site in Hungary. I think that's a very good idea. We should have as many countries covered as possible. I'm from Croatia (neighbouring Hungary) and perhaps opening a Croatian OpenMoko site would be a good idea too, though that would depend on the market here I suppose, which might not be as big on FOSS related stuff as Hungary. Anyway, the overall point is, we can start thinking about it, making plans and preparations, laying out the structure we need to make Neo1973 a worldwide hit once it comes out. I also hope and expect FIC will invest considerable effort in this regard. They are making and selling these phones after all. It's their brand on it! Cheers Danijel On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 11:27:38 -0500 "el jefe delito" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Regardless of where the hardware and software are right now, I would imagine > that they both will be further along come release date. But, outside of > this community and the few people that remember us telling them about the > FIC Neo1973 and the OpenMoko platform, who knows about this phone or > platform? > > Slashdot and NYTimes and many other sites have articles about the Apple > iPhone, but very rarely is the Neo1973 mentioned. We, the OpenMoko > community, are interested in these articles too (I would imagine), and yet > no one ever posts a comment about the Neo1973 (except me, it seems). If we > don't get the mainstream press to write about the Neo1973, we (or FIC) are > going to have a difficult time selling devices and getting out there. If > they (press) won't write about the Neo1973, the least we can do is mention > the Neo1973 in the reader comments, with a link to the wiki. > > Here is one such article from just this weekend. The iPhone will be getting > a lot of coverage, and as different as the two philosophies may be, the > average person on the street will see the two phones as very similar. If we > have a great feature comparison, why not let people know?? > http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/fever-builds-for-iphone-anxiety-too/ > > I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being > open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being unlocked, > being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are benefits that we > must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, the higher on the > Comments list we will be and the more reads that comment will get. No one > reads Comment #154267 > > Thoughts? > > -- > start using Free software > http://www.linux.org > http://www.fsf.org > It's a matter of Liberty not Price: > "Free Software exists to free you from the artificial constraints set by > Apple and Microsoft. Free software is Unrestricted software. Get Free." > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
Jim Thompson wrote: > Comments don't sell phones, applications do. > > Once we have functional hardware, we can create better software, and the > combination of these is far better than any amount of hype or PR. Agreed. The iPhone will be available in about a month with a selection of polished and integrated applications. We should hold off on a major promotional push until the OpenMoko platform is at a similar stage. Rory signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
As far as mainstream press, check out June 2007 issue of Popular Science magazine. The Neo is one of "29 Hot Products". -Steven ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
Frankly, creating buzz about the product doesn't really seem like our job... I'm just looking forward to getting one so I can get to serious work on it! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
Am 04.06.2007 um 18:27 schrieb el jefe delito: Regardless of where the hardware and software are right now, I would imagine that they both will be further along come release date. But, outside of this community and the few people that remember us telling them about the FIC Neo1973 and the OpenMoko platform, who knows about this phone or platform? Slashdot and NYTimes and many other sites have articles about the Apple iPhone, but very rarely is the Neo1973 mentioned. We, the OpenMoko community, are interested in these articles too (I would imagine), and yet no one ever posts a comment about the Neo1973 (except me, it seems). If we don't get the mainstream press to write about the Neo1973, we (or FIC) are going to have a difficult time selling devices and getting out there. If they (press) won't write about the Neo1973, the least we can do is mention the Neo1973 in the reader comments, with a link to the wiki. Here is one such article from just this weekend. The iPhone will be getting a lot of coverage, and as different as the two philosophies may be, the average person on the street will see the two phones as very similar. If we have a great feature comparison, why not let people know?? http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/fever-builds-for-iphone- anxiety-too/ I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being unlocked, being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are benefits that we must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, the higher on the Comments list we will be and the more reads that comment will get. No one reads Comment #154267 Thoughts? Ok, let's write down some htoughts: Apple is most probably spending several 10 or even 100 Millions of $$ $ for advertizing and distributing (working) devices to promotors and multiplicators. And when looking at the "single carrier" policy of the iPhone, I get the impression that the main value to operators is a unique marketing tool. And all operators want to use it for their promotion purposes. But cleverly enough just one in the US carriers did succeed and probably a single other will in EU (at least that is what I read from the news). Then, some of the press coverage comes simply from the fact that Apple is a public company which requires them (and others) to publish anything which influences the value of their shares. Such news are automatically spread through the financial news. And why should they compare it with OpenMoko? Whose existence is very interesting for us but not for their readers? OpenMoko on the other hand is a project made of volunteers (besides FIC). Driven like many other Open Source projects. And - there are "just" developer devices to show. It does not produce announcements so interesting for the end users so that carriers want to have it definitively in their offer and promote it. And, there is no large Marketing budget (dho wants to donate to that?). OSS marketing has different rules... When comparing with the iPhone buzz, it is IMHO wise to wait a little until the Lion has stopped roaring. Then, your lower voice will be heared better again... OpenMoko/Neo did have a lot of press coverage when originally announced. But now it needs to deliver something. So the most important news we need is that there is something tangible for everybody. -- hns ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
RE: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
Yep my thoughts exactly - wait until the product is out before trying to hype it any more. Enough people know about it already. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Pty Ltd [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 Ph +1-917-207-3420 Mb +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:community- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Thompson > Sent: Monday, 4 June 2007 2:43 PM > To: el jefe delito > Cc: community@lists.openmoko.org > Subject: Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday! > > el jefe delito wrote: > > > I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being > > open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being > > unlocked, being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are > > benefits that we must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, > > the higher on the Comments list we will be and the more reads that > > comment will get. No one reads Comment #154267 > > > > Thoughts? > > We need hardware, (and far better softare), not hype. > > Comments don't sell phones, applications do. > > Once we have functional hardware, we can create better software, and the > combination of these is far better than any amount of hype or PR. > > Devices like the FIC Neo1973 can be difficult to engineer, so Sean, we > understand. > > Jim > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
el jefe delito wrote: I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being unlocked, being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are benefits that we must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, the higher on the Comments list we will be and the more reads that comment will get. No one reads Comment #154267 Thoughts? We need hardware, (and far better softare), not hype. Comments don't sell phones, applications do. Once we have functional hardware, we can create better software, and the combination of these is far better than any amount of hype or PR. Devices like the FIC Neo1973 can be difficult to engineer, so Sean, we understand. Jim ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: FIC Fanboys
On 6/4/07, Jeff Andros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 This has been up for a while... It's officialishly licensed from the coreteam guys you can check out the thread for it here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003160.html I've noted this on the wiki -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: FIC Fanboys
http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 This has been up for a while... It's officialishly licensed from the coreteam guys you can check out the thread for it here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003160.html On 6/4/07, Pander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I was thinking about the same thing. So where is that scalable vector graphics logo. ;) how about http://www.shirtcity.com/shop/ Chris Fazekas wrote: > Sorry, forgot to replyall. > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Chris Fazekas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Jun 4, 2007 11:19 AM > Subject: Re: FIC Fanboys > To: Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Maybe someone can talk to jinx.com or a similar company about running > a print off? Tell them you don't want any profit, so they can have it > all, just want the t-shirts available? > > Cheers, > > Chris > > On 6/4/07, Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Any chance we can buy colorful FIC / OpenMoko shirts to display our >> affection? >> >> Cheers, >> Ryan >> >> ___ >> OpenMoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> >> > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Fwd: FIC Fanboys
I was thinking about the same thing. So where is that scalable vector graphics logo. ;) how about http://www.shirtcity.com/shop/ Chris Fazekas wrote: > Sorry, forgot to replyall. > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Chris Fazekas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Jun 4, 2007 11:19 AM > Subject: Re: FIC Fanboys > To: Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Maybe someone can talk to jinx.com or a similar company about running > a print off? Tell them you don't want any profit, so they can have it > all, just want the t-shirts available? > > Cheers, > > Chris > > On 6/4/07, Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Any chance we can buy colorful FIC / OpenMoko shirts to display our >> affection? >> >> Cheers, >> Ryan >> >> ___ >> OpenMoko community mailing list >> community@lists.openmoko.org >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community >> >> > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Fwd: FIC Fanboys
Sorry, forgot to replyall. -- Forwarded message -- From: Chris Fazekas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Jun 4, 2007 11:19 AM Subject: Re: FIC Fanboys To: Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Maybe someone can talk to jinx.com or a similar company about running a print off? Tell them you don't want any profit, so they can have it all, just want the t-shirts available? Cheers, Chris On 6/4/07, Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Any chance we can buy colorful FIC / OpenMoko shirts to display our affection? Cheers, Ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
I do work for the fellow who own's http://www.scottevest.com, and I know he has a personal contact with the guy named... Leo Laporte from http://www.twit.tv/ Maybe if I can get my hands on a demo of the Neo1973, I can get it on TV? Thoughts? Contact me directly if needed. Cheers, Chris On 6/4/07, Varga-Háli Dániel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey! I am a Hungarian exchange student right now and I think I could help you by sending in a couple articles about OpenMoko to some Hungarian tech papers. Hungary (in general) is very opened to Linux (go to Google Trends and search for Linux) and it has got a strong Un*x like OS lover community. Hungary could be a strong market of OpenMoko. If you have any existing articles, I could translate it into hungarian and put it into press. Also I am just about to start a Hungarian OpenMoko Community site. :) Regards, Dan On 6/4/07, el jefe delito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Regardless of where the hardware and software are right now, I would imagine > that they both will be further along come release date. But, outside of > this community and the few people that remember us telling them about the > FIC Neo1973 and the OpenMoko platform, who knows about this phone or > platform? > > Slashdot and NYTimes and many other sites have articles about the Apple > iPhone, but very rarely is the Neo1973 mentioned. We, the OpenMoko > community, are interested in these articles too (I would imagine), and yet > no one ever posts a comment about the Neo1973 (except me, it seems). If we > don't get the mainstream press to write about the Neo1973, we (or FIC) are > going to have a difficult time selling devices and getting out there. If > they (press) won't write about the Neo1973, the least we can do is mention > the Neo1973 in the reader comments, with a link to the wiki. > > Here is one such article from just this weekend. The iPhone will be getting > a lot of coverage, and as different as the two philosophies may be, the > average person on the street will see the two phones as very similar. If we > have a great feature comparison, why not let people know?? > http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/fever-builds-for-iphone-anxiety-too/ > > I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being > open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being unlocked, > being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are benefits that we > must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, the higher on the > Comments list we will be and the more reads that comment will get. No one > reads Comment #154267 > > Thoughts? > > -- > start using Free software > http://www.linux.org > http://www.fsf.org > It's a matter of Liberty not Price: >"Free Software exists to free you from the artificial constraints set by > Apple and Microsoft. Free software is Unrestricted software. Get Free." > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Hmm. Are there any existing devices or eval boards that have this chip? On 6/4/07, Florent THIERY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >From official SMedia press release for Glamo3662 [1]: ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
Hey! I am a Hungarian exchange student right now and I think I could help you by sending in a couple articles about OpenMoko to some Hungarian tech papers. Hungary (in general) is very opened to Linux (go to Google Trends and search for Linux) and it has got a strong Un*x like OS lover community. Hungary could be a strong market of OpenMoko. If you have any existing articles, I could translate it into hungarian and put it into press. Also I am just about to start a Hungarian OpenMoko Community site. :) Regards, Dan On 6/4/07, el jefe delito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Regardless of where the hardware and software are right now, I would imagine that they both will be further along come release date. But, outside of this community and the few people that remember us telling them about the FIC Neo1973 and the OpenMoko platform, who knows about this phone or platform? Slashdot and NYTimes and many other sites have articles about the Apple iPhone, but very rarely is the Neo1973 mentioned. We, the OpenMoko community, are interested in these articles too (I would imagine), and yet no one ever posts a comment about the Neo1973 (except me, it seems). If we don't get the mainstream press to write about the Neo1973, we (or FIC) are going to have a difficult time selling devices and getting out there. If they (press) won't write about the Neo1973, the least we can do is mention the Neo1973 in the reader comments, with a link to the wiki. Here is one such article from just this weekend. The iPhone will be getting a lot of coverage, and as different as the two philosophies may be, the average person on the street will see the two phones as very similar. If we have a great feature comparison, why not let people know?? http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/fever-builds-for-iphone-anxiety-too/ I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being unlocked, being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are benefits that we must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, the higher on the Comments list we will be and the more reads that comment will get. No one reads Comment #154267 Thoughts? -- start using Free software http://www.linux.org http://www.fsf.org It's a matter of Liberty not Price: "Free Software exists to free you from the artificial constraints set by Apple and Microsoft. Free software is Unrestricted software. Get Free." ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
Just mentioning the Neo1973's merits and existence will open many eyes. People read Apple news (and the buzz which passes for news), and then read comments; not a lot of non-tech people read news about an unknown product (or less-visible company, FIC). I agree that we can be better heard in the future by people who are looking for us, but those that are looking for the iPhone today might find us interesting and may not come across us otherwise, now or in the future... -- start using Free software http://www.linux.org http://www.fsf.org It's a matter of Liberty not Price: "Free Software exists to free you from the artificial constraints set by Apple and Microsoft. Free software is Unrestricted software. Get Free." ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
Florent THIERY wrote: >> My guess is that the primary application of that chip will be audio/video >> reproduction, and perhaps some blitting improvements, the 3D part is just >> bonus/eyecandy material. > I do not agree with you: the neo currently struggles with 2D drawing; > a real (understand: usable) zooming user interface has to achieve > fluid un/zooming, so that the zooming metaphor applies to our > analogical sense of space. > I hope the chip will enable ZUIs, together with the accelerometers, > not just eye-candy ! You bet! After we feel comfortable enough with the software enabling the GTA01 to work as a concept/prototyping/development device, this is where I'd like to focus on (if my I'm allowed to, that is ;) -- - Michael Lauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://openmoko.org/ Software for the worlds' first truly open Free Software mobile phone ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OpenMoko - We Need HYPE, and we need it yesterday!
Regardless of where the hardware and software are right now, I would imagine that they both will be further along come release date. But, outside of this community and the few people that remember us telling them about the FIC Neo1973 and the OpenMoko platform, who knows about this phone or platform? Slashdot and NYTimes and many other sites have articles about the Apple iPhone, but very rarely is the Neo1973 mentioned. We, the OpenMoko community, are interested in these articles too (I would imagine), and yet no one ever posts a comment about the Neo1973 (except me, it seems). If we don't get the mainstream press to write about the Neo1973, we (or FIC) are going to have a difficult time selling devices and getting out there. If they (press) won't write about the Neo1973, the least we can do is mention the Neo1973 in the reader comments, with a link to the wiki. Here is one such article from just this weekend. The iPhone will be getting a lot of coverage, and as different as the two philosophies may be, the average person on the street will see the two phones as very similar. If we have a great feature comparison, why not let people know?? http://news.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/fever-builds-for-iphone-anxiety-too/ I hope that we can start to create some buzz about this product! Being open, being able to work with multiple service providers, being unlocked, being cheaper, being higher-resolution... all of these are benefits that we must PROMOTE. The quicker we can post on an article, the higher on the Comments list we will be and the more reads that comment will get. No one reads Comment #154267 Thoughts? -- start using Free software http://www.linux.org http://www.fsf.org It's a matter of Liberty not Price: "Free Software exists to free you from the artificial constraints set by Apple and Microsoft. Free software is Unrestricted software. Get Free." ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
How does Phase1 and Phase2 differ for the user (non-dev) who will be buying in September (or whenever the release date is)? Will the first public release of these phones be Phase2 or Phase2+? Should we be hyping the wifi on the Neo1973 when discussing the phone with others, or should we be telling them that "yeah the Neo1973 phone will be awesome, but *you* should wait until 2008..."? I am hoping for the former, e.g. that wifi will be available on all publicly-released phones. But, I really don't know... I want the Neo1973 so much! :) -- start using Free software http://www.linux.org http://www.fsf.org It's a matter of Liberty not Price: "Free Software exists to free you from the artificial constraints set by Apple and Microsoft. Free software is Unrestricted software. Get Free." ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phone Call Security
No.. as far as I know, the encryption is an integral part of the protocol. Though Martin Tomasek tells me he's seen carriers that don't operate with encryption turned on. But in any event, I'm pretty sure that if the network does GSM encryption, your phone can't request a non-encrypted channel. But as far as the authentication and encryption goes, it doesn't add terribly to the latency and only slightly to the bitrate. In the US, at least, you wouldn't be able to sell a service like this as it would make it impossible for the carrier to comply with CALEA. I don't know about other countries, but I suspect every nation's intelligence services would be loathe to give up the ability to tap individual calls at will. (Which is one of the reasons that some people find end-to-end encryption interesting in the first place.) -Cheers -Matt H. On Jun 4, 2007, at 1:07 AM, Pander wrote: Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: ... Could it be possible to have you GSM request a non-encrypted channel? Would this channel provide more bandwidth or less delay because of that? If so, the extra bandwidth or reduced delay could be used for efficiently using your own encryption. Can anyone elaborate if this is possible with the current network hardware and GSM service providers? If this is possible, that could mean a new service for the GSM service providers: network subscriptions which you can choose per connection to have network encryption enabled or not. Your telephone could e.g. automatically disable it when you are calling with someone which has a telephone supporting the same end to end encryption as yours does. Regards, Pander ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FIC Fanboys
Any chance we can buy colorful FIC / OpenMoko shirts to display our affection? Cheers, Ryan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Wow, that all sounds really awsome! But there's one thing I don't understand: I expected the Phase 2 Hardware to be the same as in Phase 1+. So does this new informations mean P1+ will get this fantastic hardware upgrade, too or is it just for P2 which will be different to P1+ then? The Neo seems to become more and more the ultimate killer phone. :-) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice/Command recongnition
Google and the keywords "linux voice recognition" are your friends. (e.g. XVoice, ViaVoice, CMU Sphinx, cvoicecontrol, ...) 2007/6/4, wim delvaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Hi, Do any of you know packages that would allow vocal command recognition much like voice dialling on some cell phones ? This would be handy to start applications without having to navigate through menus. W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Apple iPhone ads
Here's my commercial... "It took less than a month to load OSX on a whitebox" "...less than a week to load OSX on an appleTV" "Imaging what you can do with OpenMoko on your iPhone?" We'll see what the future holds. :) Chris On 6/4/07, Rory McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Apple have released a few ads for their OpenMoko competitor, the locked down iPhone. Direct links: http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/iphone/how_to/apple-iphone-how_to_640x496.mov http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/iphone/never_been/apple-iphone-never_been_640x496.mov http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/iphone/calamari/apple-iphone-calamari_640x496.mov It shows off some of the functionality that can be had with a touch screen and tilt sensors. I like how the photo viewer and scrolling is done with the touch screen. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Apple iPhone ads
Apple have released a few ads for their OpenMoko competitor, the locked down iPhone. Direct links: http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/iphone/how_to/apple-iphone-how_to_640x496.mov http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/iphone/never_been/apple-iphone-never_been_640x496.mov http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/iphone/calamari/apple-iphone-calamari_640x496.mov It shows off some of the functionality that can be had with a touch screen and tilt sensors. I like how the photo viewer and scrolling is done with the touch screen. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Florent THIERY wrote: > Just a thought: on macbooks, apple uses the hard drive's acceleration > sensors (normally, safety function) as input device. Wanna tilt your > neo? :) Someone wrote a programme that'll emit star wars light saber noises when you swing your laptop around. It'd be cool to have something like that for the openmoko. :) Rory signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
--- Forwarded message --- From: "Richard Bennett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: Neo1973 Update! Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 14:10:46 +0200 On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 11:31:50 +0200, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: the GPS daemon would need to be updated to allow for kallman filtering using those accelerometers, so that the GPS apps could continue pointing the phones location inside tunnels and stuff Unfortunately not. As already pointed out on that list, the accelerometers error would add up itself. Besides: Its only two accelerometers. You can do 2-dimensional 'navigating' with that, no more. No tilting/rotating. In the talk posted to google video they say they have 2 x 3D accelerometers to allow detecting rotation as well. Richard. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
support for bt headsets
Hi, I own a stereo BT headset with built in microphone. This headset supports picking up a call when paired with a cellphone (donno the profile which does that). Do there exists BT extensions/daemons that support the same under linux ? I.e. can I pickup the phone using the BT headset while listening to MP3 player ? W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Voice/Command recongnition
Hi, Do any of you know packages that would allow vocal command recognition much like voice dialling on some cell phones ? This would be handy to start applications without having to navigate through menus. W ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
On Monday 04 June 2007 10:31, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > the GPS daemon would need to be updated to allow for kallman filtering > > using those accelerometers, so that the GPS apps could continue pointing > > the phones location inside tunnels and stuff > > Unfortunately not. As already pointed out on that list, the > accelerometers error would add up itself. > > Besides: Its only two accelerometers. You can do 2-dimensional > 'navigating' with that, no more. No tilting/rotating. > In his presentation (already posted but see link below) Sean says it has 2 3D accels so tilt and rotate should be available. Still no good for inertial navigation though ;-) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8574715471341709984 ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
From official SMedia press release for Glamo3662 [1]: * MPEG4 full hardware codec function * 5M pixel high resolution picture Glamo3362 supports up to 5M pixel resolution picture function, including auto focus, auto white balance and auto exposure that are reaching the image quality of a digital camera. Presently there are three types of auto focus lenses: VCM, Piezo and Stepping Motor <--- DIY camera (expansion pack...) ? * OpenGL-ES: for 3D GPS navigation software: Glamo3362 product has the pipeline structured pure hardware accelerator, and is complied with OpenGL-ES specification, so that 3D GPS can be realized inside the handheld mobile device. Together with the acceleration sensors update, this update pre-announcement looks very promising ! Just a thought: on macbooks, apple uses the hard drive's acceleration sensors (normally, safety function) as input device. Wanna tilt your neo? :) [1] http://www.smediatech.com/press8.htm ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
On Monday 04 June 2007 12:48, Frank Coenen wrote: > H264 will probably not work. If you look at the website: > http://www.smediatech.com/product3370.htm > The chip used by the GTA_02 will probably be the 3362-version. That > supports VGA displays, but does not support H264. At least it lists MPEG4, so not all is lost :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [SVHMPC] concept phone with only a touchscreen for UI
Interesting ideas, but I'm not sure that any adequately handle the tactile needs of a touch typist. Without looking at the keys, I can feel the nubs on the home keys on my phone's mini qwerty to get lined up again. I also have the same concern with using a laser projected keyboard (even tho potentially high on the coolness scale). With just a big flat surface then there's no way to keep you lined up on your keys at speed. I type pretty fast on my mini qwerty. All my personal email for the last few years have been 99.9% written on this thing, including this one. -Chris On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 2:10 pm, Jon Phillips wrote: On Sat, 2007-06-02 at 13:35 -0700, Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: Well... for a while I was thinking about implanting a strong magnet under the skin in one of my fingers to detect alternating current. There are a few people out there who have done this and they say they can feel a very mild wiggle when the magnet comes near a wire carrying AC. It might be possible to detect the current going through the touchscreen as you make contact with it. But that's probably not a mainstream solution. That sounds like a stelarc solution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stelarc What about a glove or thimble that you could put on your finger? How much does vibration tech. kill the battery on phones? Some type of current detection sounds interesting... Jon On Jun 2, 2007, at 1:11 PM, Jon Phillips wrote: > Yes, it seems pretty clear that screens are the way forward rather > than > > moving parts. I've seen a few solutions to the tactile feedback > issue, > > with the main being have the phone vibrate slightly upon key press, > > along with sounds. > > > Matthew (and others), have you heard of others? > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- Jon Phillips San Francisco, CA USA PH 510.499.0894 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.rejon.org MSN, AIM, Yahoo Chat: kidproto Jabber Chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IRC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Wow! A 400mhz cpu *and* graphics acceleration. Would this be enough horsepower to play a typical 300mb mpeg4 video file? This would be a major boost to an already great device. Liam ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
H264 will probably not work. If you look at the website: http://www.smediatech.com/product3370.htm The chip used by the GTA_02 will probably be the 3362-version. That supports VGA displays, but does not support H264. On 6/4/07, Attila Csipa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Monday 04 June 2007 11:03, Florent THIERY wrote: > > My guess is that the primary application of that chip will be audio/video > > reproduction, and perhaps some blitting improvements, the 3D part is just > > bonus/eyecandy material. > > I do not agree with you: the neo currently struggles with 2D drawing; > a real (understand: usable) zooming user interface has to achieve > fluid un/zooming, so that the zooming metaphor applies to our Most of the time blitting = 2D :) But seriously, even window zooming isn't real 3D, and I'm not sure that you want an extra chip there just for aqua/beryl-like eyecandy. Of course, if you already have that chip there for other reasons, like image processing, H264, hardware MP3/AAC and blitting) it wont hurt to add some extra coolness :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Neo1973 Update!
> the GPS daemon would need to be updated to allow for kallman filtering > using those accelerometers, so that the GPS apps could continue pointing > the phones location inside tunnels and stuff Unfortunately not. As already pointed out on that list, the accelerometers error would add up itself. Besides: Its only two accelerometers. You can do 2-dimensional 'navigating' with that, no more. No tilting/rotating. Regarding the GTA-01-is-dead-issue: Sure, GTA-02 now means some competition to GTA-01, BUT: Firstly, not everyone wants/needs the 'best phone ever' with accelerometers, etc. Secondly, FIC will probably offer a special price to GTA-01 owners and GTA-02 will surely take some time, though I reckon if the GTA-01 is eventually out soon then GTA-02 should make it most likely this year too, as hardware issues concerning the GPS or GSM daemon won't change (others will ;D). I am pretty sure FIC will offer that special price to GTA-01 owners because the ones that are those so-called early-adopters will most likely add to the phones functionality most. And that, of course, is after all what a this product needs most and FIC would be very stupid not to support phone development as it would degrade final GTA-02 sales. tim/minime ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
On Monday 04 June 2007 11:03, Florent THIERY wrote: > > My guess is that the primary application of that chip will be audio/video > > reproduction, and perhaps some blitting improvements, the 3D part is just > > bonus/eyecandy material. > > I do not agree with you: the neo currently struggles with 2D drawing; > a real (understand: usable) zooming user interface has to achieve > fluid un/zooming, so that the zooming metaphor applies to our Most of the time blitting = 2D :) But seriously, even window zooming isn't real 3D, and I'm not sure that you want an extra chip there just for aqua/beryl-like eyecandy. Of course, if you already have that chip there for other reasons, like image processing, H264, hardware MP3/AAC and blitting) it wont hurt to add some extra coolness :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > And the finally thing everybody has been asking for: > 2 Accelerometers. F**k yeah. Looking forward to it. > (Has anyone heard any updates concerning possible multi-touch-abilities > of the neo yet?) the GPS daemon would need to be updated to allow for kallman filtering using those accelerometers, so that the GPS apps could continue pointing the phones location inside tunnels and stuff ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
My guess is that the primary application of that chip will be audio/video reproduction, and perhaps some blitting improvements, the 3D part is just bonus/eyecandy material. I do not agree with you: the neo currently struggles with 2D drawing; a real (understand: usable) zooming user interface has to achieve fluid un/zooming, so that the zooming metaphor applies to our analogical sense of space. I hope the chip will enable ZUIs, together with the accelerometers, not just eye-candy ! Anyway, these are great news !!! Cheers Florent ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: [Fwd: Re: Neo1973 Update!]
On Sunday 03 June 2007 19:47, kenneth marken wrote: > 3dacceleration? That means 3D desktop can be done now? Or what should > we think of that? My guess is that the primary application of that chip will be audio/video reproduction, and perhaps some blitting improvements, the 3D part is just bonus/eyecandy material. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Am Montag, 4. Juni 2007 09:09 schrieb Marcin Juszkiewicz: > > Looking at recently released code from coreteam it will be SMedia chip. > Yes, having such chip http://www.smediatech.com/product3370.htm would be really nice. > And as user of ATI gfx cards I am happy that they do not use ATI chipsets > as they (ati) have no idea how opensource way works - I see it each time > when want to update X.org drivers (free one or propertiary one). ATI is even more secretive about their Imageon line ;-) Oleg. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phone Call Security
Matthew S. Hamrick wrote: ... Could it be possible to have you GSM request a non-encrypted channel? Would this channel provide more bandwidth or less delay because of that? If so, the extra bandwidth or reduced delay could be used for efficiently using your own encryption. Can anyone elaborate if this is possible with the current network hardware and GSM service providers? If this is possible, that could mean a new service for the GSM service providers: network subscriptions which you can choose per connection to have network encryption enabled or not. Your telephone could e.g. automatically disable it when you are calling with someone which has a telephone supporting the same end to end encryption as yours does. Regards, Pander ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Update!
Dnia niedziela, 3 czerwca 2007, Oleg Gusev napisał: > Am Sonntag, 3. Juni 2007 17:00 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > Phase 2 (GTA-02) will feature: > > -a 2D/3D-Graphics Accelerator > > This one needs more clarification. > I doubt that it will be some ATI chipset. Looking at recently released code from coreteam it will be SMedia chip. And as user of ATI gfx cards I am happy that they do not use ATI chipsets as they (ati) have no idea how opensource way works - I see it each time when want to update X.org drivers (free one or propertiary one). -- JID: hrw-jabber.org OpenEmbedded developer/consultant Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
