date:20080508

Re: Los Angeles / Southern California group sales

2008-05-08 Thread geek

I think there were ten total between all Ca.

(last I looked)

We (my work) ships to Mexico City (SantaFe Shopping Center - Parking)

Customs is very SLOW right now...it could easily be 4 weeks from shipping to
delivered, no matter "how" you ship it.

We have a guy who crosses border at TJ and then ships within Mexico.

I've been asleep at the wheel...when is shipping date?  How do we pay?

/matthew - Los Angeles


"How should I know if it works? That's what beta testers are for. I only
coded it." -- Linus Torvalds
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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Paul Jimenez


steve wrote:

Mass Pro is slated to start between may9 and may 16. Steve's rule say add a
week. Then you got test, then you shipping.

On Monday ( or maybe Sunday night for my EU friends ) I will do an update.

  


Could you also include status of debug boards?  Will they go on sale at 
the same time as the phones?
Will there be debug-board 10-packs? (I don't expect so, but it's 
possible!)  If I'm getting a phone via a group order, is there any 
advantage to getting a debug board via the same order, or should I just 
order it on my own?


Answers can wait until your update, bu I wanted to get the questions out 
there.  Thanks again for keeping us so well informed!


 --pj


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RE: Stylus Recommendation

2008-05-08 Thread Joe Pfeiffer

steve writes:
>haha. this will make you laugh.

Not if you're a fisherman...  though I've got rod holders I like a lot
better.

>Like this in miniature mounted vertically on the back panel. backwoods geek!
>
>http://www.rodmounts.com/


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Browser report of Wiki

2008-05-08 Thread BrendaWang

Dear All:
Attached file is the Browser report of WIKI.
Period :
1, April~7,May

Brenda



Analytics_wiki[1].openmoko.org_20080407-20080507_(BrowsersReport).pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread steve

The 10 pack will have to be ordered by one person. It will ship to that
persons location.

Now, how will people arrange to do this? I thought long and hard about this.
And then I realized that some people will find one way, one guy pays and
others promise to pay him. Some people will find another way, half up front
and half on delivery. Some people will do contracts. Some people will just
choose to do a single phone. 



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robin Paulson
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:50 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: questions for steve regarding group purchases

steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing?

most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like
some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the
money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents?
or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c
card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there
anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making
sure things go smoothly?

thanks

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RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread steve

Well put Roh.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joachim Steiger
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:18 AM
To: Michele Renda
Cc: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

hi michele

Michele Renda wrote:
> For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment
fee.

i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily
packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish.
so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount

the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we
are not paypal.
we build the free and open mobile phone.
and we want to focus on that.

kind regards

-- 

Joachim Steiger
Openmoko Central Services

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RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread steve

Bingo!

When Sean and I discussed this idea we didn't want to force any kind of
arrangement on groups. People are free to join and establish their own terms
between each other.   

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:36 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

Yea, there's all kinds of ways that people use every day to transact
with others who they've no way of meeting or even calling on the phone.
If you are concerned, then maybe the price to fix the concern is to just
order the phone individually.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming
Richter Mikkelsen
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:24 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Joachim Steiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> hi michele
>
> Michele Renda wrote:
>> For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more
payment fee.
>
> i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily
> packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish.
> so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount
>
> the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we
> are not paypal.
> we build the free and open mobile phone.
> and we want to focus on that.

I agree with Joachim.

And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering
the 10-pack could
make a simple contract for payment & delivery of the phone. Then
people could pay
and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub
person to prove
he sent the phone. The contract must include payment & shipping details.

I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some,
because I do not
have enough cash to order 22 phones ++.

I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone
deal. If people do
not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no
quantum discount.
This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing
the phone. They
are not a shipping&insurance company.

-- 
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
http://www.fsf.org/register_form?referrer=5774>

Free your mind - Open(moko) your phone

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RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread steve

Hey,

 Some joker just called me at home ( he must of got my number from a press
release) and burned up 30 of my cell minutes asking me the same question.

Mass Pro is slated to start between may9 and may 16. Steve's rule say add a
week. Then you got test, then you shipping.

On Monday ( or maybe Sunday night for my EU friends ) I will do an update.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michele Renda
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:24 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:

Don't worry! No problem :)

I don't know what is happening, but I see in Internet also I a lot of 
person speaking with no-understandable comparations with other phone, 
watching more what is missing on this phone, and not what there is already.

And in the end they lost what want this phone to be.

I hope this phone will become big, and can show to all the potiality of 
open development. In this moment to me seem to live like in the first 
years where was born linux: on the begining no one was never thinking 
that the work of thousand free person can build a project so big and 
complete.

And according me Openmoko is doing in hardware what Linux made in 
software! And it is great.

So, steve... when you will send this phone to us? (If I am the 1.000.000 
person that ask this, I win somethig?)

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Re: Top 100 content of Wiki

2008-05-08 Thread nickd

Thanks Brenda that's very interesting. Would it be possible to get some
more stats just out of interest? Possibly ones for country of origin
(Map Overlay), traffic sources etc? Or am I asking too much...

-Nick

BrendaWang wrote:
> Dear All:
> Attached file is the top 100 content of wiki.
> Period:Since 1,april to 07,May.
>
>
> Brenda
>
>
>
>   
> 
>
> ___
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>   

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RE: Is anyone else getting 2 or 3 copies of every mails?

2008-05-08 Thread steve

ya. me too

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ian douglas
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:56 PM
To: List for OpenMoko community discussion
Subject: Is anyone else getting 2 or 3 copies of every mails?

Hey all,

I'm randomly getting a second and sometimes a third copy of messages 
coming to the list. For exampe, Torfinn Ingolfsen's last Email with a 
subject line "Re: Software" -- I got three copies. I also got three 
copies of Bradley Hook's message about the external displays, but only 
one copy of Gabriel Ambeuhl's Email in the same thread.

Anyone else seeing this?

This doesn't affect any other mailing list or personal messages coming 
to my Email account, which helped me pinpoint that it's an issue with 
the OpenMoko community list.

Thanks,
Ian

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Re: When will you update the Production Status, steve?

2008-05-08 Thread Michael Shiloh

And then we will buy each other a tall cold beer, and brace for the 
flood


steve wrote:

You're welcome matt. When the product hits the floor in Fremont California
I will drive to the wharehouse. I will review the incoming QA. And then
I will announce to you guys, open the shop and take orders.  





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:16 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve?


Thank you for not opening the shop before there is something to sell.
This is getting way too common of practice at various electronics
websites. 

Matt 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:39 PM
To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve?

Then we take orders. I was very adamament about having phones in the
disty
ready to ship before I opened the web shop.


 







-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian
Reichel
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:08 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: When will you update the Production Status, steve?

Am Freitag, den 02.05.2008, 14:25 -0700 schrieb steve:
Thread: RE: When begin sales the freerunner?

I will update the production status over the weekend!


Hi,

the weekend is almost gone (actually it is already here in Germany,
where it's 3:00 now), so where are the updates? :D

greetings from Europe,

Sebastian


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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread nickd

I think the only caveat to this for the Freerunner is the lack of 
datasheet from SMedia for the GPU which makes 3D impossible. Rather 
unfortunate.


http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#Graphics.2F3D_Acceleration

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/014709.html
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#SMedia_3362_Documentation_.26_OpenGL_ES_Drivers





Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:

OM is doing some very important things. The thing which is most important
to me, is if they can make all HW producers write their drivers in GPL and
provide all the specification needed for any usage of their HW.

I really want a Linux enabled phone powered by FOSS. OM are helping me
by providing HW and FOSS SW that works together. It is our job to port OM
to other devices (such as Neonode N2) and to write good SW.

  


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RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve?

2008-05-08 Thread steve

You're welcome matt. When the product hits the floor in Fremont California
I will drive to the wharehouse. I will review the incoming QA. And then
I will announce to you guys, open the shop and take orders.  




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Crane, Matthew
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 5:16 AM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve?


Thank you for not opening the shop before there is something to sell.
This is getting way too common of practice at various electronics
websites. 

Matt 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 9:39 PM
To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve?

Then we take orders. I was very adamament about having phones in the
disty
ready to ship before I opened the web shop.


 






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian
Reichel
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:08 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: When will you update the Production Status, steve?

Am Freitag, den 02.05.2008, 14:25 -0700 schrieb steve:
Thread: RE: When begin sales the freerunner?
> I will update the production status over the weekend!

Hi,

the weekend is almost gone (actually it is already here in Germany,
where it's 3:00 now), so where are the updates? :D

greetings from Europe,

Sebastian


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RE: OpenMoko GTA02 status

2008-05-08 Thread steve

 production will start in the next week or so

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bogdan Bivolaru
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:43 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: OpenMoko GTA02 status

 

Hello,

What's the status with OpenMoko GTA02?
Is it in production? When will it be launched? When we will be able to buy
one?
Any other schedules available to the public?

Cheers
Bogdan


-- 
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it.", 1971, Alan Kay:
http://www.smalltalk.org/alankay.html 

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RE: Warranty on phase 1 phones

2008-05-08 Thread steve

Yes your phone has an identifying number. So every phone will be covered,
regardless of how you buy it. 

We will cover DOA for 14 days on single phones and 28 days on phones shipped
in 10 packs.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Smith
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 3:07 AM
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: Warranty on phase 1 phones

Openmoko,

A lot of people on the Group Order forum are asking about the
warranty protection of individual buyers when we consolidate
our orders.  Is openmoko able to provide a solution where buyers may
take advantage of the bulk discount and reduced shipping
costs through Group Order and at the same time each individual
enjoys an independent Warranty direct with Openmoko?

-- 
- Eric Smith

Sean Moss-Pultz said:
> On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 17:32 -0800, Pranav Desai wrote:
> > 
> > Is there any warranty on phase 1 phones ? If the screen is bad, some
> > input ports don't work, etc. what will be the process then ? 
> 
> Of course we'll have a warranty ;-)
> 
> I'm not sure of the exact terms at this point. Probably something
> standard like 1 year. 
> 
> -Sean

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RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve?

2008-05-08 Thread steve

Very Nice,

Long ago worked on a 90 million dollar flight sim with 20 men in the loop
and lots of AI. If you ever played falcon 4.0 then you played against my
aircraft AI. But 10K players is insane. Sounds very cool.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:38 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: When will you update the Production Status, steve?

On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:48 AM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm trying to clarify that now. Yeild is good there will not be another
>  cycle. Test throughput, how long it takes to test the phone is being
>  improved. One production starts we will just build continuously, The
build
>  process is very fast. The test on the back end, lets say to catch the 2%
>  of failure is the gating item, but that can be parallelized somewhat,
>  Then you have to figure the shipping. do I ship a lot per week, build two
>  weeks and ship, etc.
>
>  What is your dissertation on?

Wonderful!

My dissertation's on the scalability of massively multiplayer video
games.  I'm taking the Torque (www.garagegames.com) engine and making
it scale to as many simulated users as I can handle.  I can get access
to the VT Supercomputer, so that should be at least 10k simulated
users.  That number really depends on how well I can tweak out the
simulator (a full running copy of the game, with rendering turned off
and an AI controlling the player).


>
>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lally Singh
>  Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 7:57 PM
>  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
>
>
> Subject: Re: When will you update the Production Status, steve?
>
>  Just to clarify, what kind of time range would be needed?  A week (4
>  weeks?) for production, plus another week (4 weeks) for testing?
>  If testing shows problems, possibly another 6 weeks for another cycle?
>
>  I don't want some sort of indirect promise on the delivery date -- I
>  know it's too fuzzy.  Just some help interpreting the meaning of the
>  update.
>  Personally I'm already committed and don't mind having some more time
>  of productivity on my dissertation before the sudden halt that will
>  arrive when the phone arrives :-D
>
>  On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 10:44 PM, steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > Minor correction, After we complete the test on the Pre MP, if we hit
the
>  >  Yeild numbers required, we start MP on the 9th at the earliest!. So,
I'd
>  put
>  >  the window at May 9 to may 16th. Just to be accurate.
>  >
>  >
>  >  -Original Message-
>  >  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  >
>  > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve
>  >  Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:39 PM
>  >  To: 'List for Openmoko community discussion'
>  >
>  >
>  > Subject: RE: When will you update the Production Status, steve?
>  >
>  >  The last Pre MP is done and mass production is slated to start on may
9.
>  >
>  >
>  >  Phones will start rolling off the lines, they will go through test,
They
>  >  will be shipped to distribution.
>  >
>  >  When the Phones hit the dock and are ready to ship, I'll do a press
>  release
>  >  and announce to the list and the store will open.
>  >
>  >  So you have 3 steps: build phone. test phone. ship phone.
>  >
>  >  Then we take orders. I was very adamament about having phones in the
>  disty
>  >  ready to ship before I opened the web shop.
>  >
>  >  Also, I need to update everybody on software.
>  >
>  >  Sorry for the short response, but those are the facts as I have them
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >  -Original Message-
>  >  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  >  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sebastian
>  Reichel
>  >  Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 6:08 PM
>  >  To: List for Openmoko community discussion
>  >  Subject: When will you update the Production Status, steve?
>  >
>  >  Am Freitag, den 02.05.2008, 14:25 -0700 schrieb steve:
>  >  Thread: RE: When begin sales the freerunner?
>  >  > I will update the production status over the weekend!
>  >
>  >  Hi,
>  >
>  >  the weekend is almost gone (actually it is already here in Germany,
>  >  where it's 3:00 now), so where are the updates? :D
>  >
>  >  greetings from Europe,
>  >
>  >  Sebastian
>  >
>  >
>  >  ___
>  >  Openmoko community mailing list
>  >  community@lists.openmoko.org
>  >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>  >
>  >
>  >  ___
>  >  Openmoko community mailing list
>  >  community@lists.openmoko.org
>  >  http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>  >
>
>
>
>  --
>  H. Lally Singh
>  Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
>  Virginia Tech
>
>  ___
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>
>
>  ___

RE: Stylus Recommendation

2008-05-08 Thread steve

haha. this will make you laugh.

Like this in miniature mounted vertically on the back panel. backwoods geek!

http://www.rodmounts.com/

 
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Shiloh
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:03 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: Stylus Recommendation

How about a stylus holder for the rear window of your pickup truck?

steve wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm goingto fashion a vertically mounted gun rack type holder on my back 
> panel.
> 
>  
> 
> Have you used emachine shop?
> 
>  
> 
> * From: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Crane,
Matthew
> *Sent:* Monday, May 05, 2008 7:04 AM
> *To:* List for Openmoko community discussion
> *Subject:* RE: Stylus Recommendation
> 
>  
> 
> Sounds like a good candidate for emachnie shop.  But how tightly can 
> something like that be locked to the side of the phone?  A usb connector 
> by itself is probally not suffecient no?
> 
>  
> 
> * From: * [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Steven
Milburn
> *Sent:* Monday, May 05, 2008 9:06 AM
> *To:* community@lists.openmoko.org
> *Subject:* Re: Stylus Recommendation
> 
> Just had a crazy thought while reading this thread
> 
> Someone (read: not me.  I AM a EE :) ) could make a stylus with a usb 
> connector sticking out along the side.  Then, the stylus could plug into 
> the usb port and be held tight against the side of the phone.
> 
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:33 PM, Jeremiah Flerchinger 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
> wrote:
> 
> I'd like a Nintendo DS style stylus and holder because they're small,
> cheap, & I like how they fit into the casing of the DS.  ?I would try to
> use the FreeRunner CAD data
> ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GTA02_Hardware#Case ) to
> make my own case mod design ?if I could find something to convert Pro-E
> files.  As it stands I refuse to buy Pro-E for a single hobby project.
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 09:12 +0200, Nicanor Babula wrote:
>>  Shawn Rutledge wrote:
>>  > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 7:56 AM, Hans L <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>>  >
>>  >>  I am not an electrical engineer, but I think that the
voltage/current
>>  >>  produced from such a magnet would be negligible.  But, even assuming
>>  >>  that it would not be harmful, isn't the case made of plastic?  Is
>>  >>
>>  >
>>  > Well you could take apart the phone and try to find a place to stash a
>>  > small, really strong neodymium magnet.  Then use a thin steel stylus
>>  > (with a soft plastic tip), shaped to fit against whatever surface has
>>  > the magnet.  It could even fit against the side of the phone, if it
>>  > had a slightly concave shape.  Or mod the case to have a shallow
>>  > groove for the stylus to fit into, then the stylus could just be a
>>  > thin steel bar, or rounded on one side as suggested.  Since the magnet
>>  > doesn't move, it shouldn't cause any inductive pulses (although it
>>  > might cause electrons that are trying to move in a straight line to go
>>  > off in a curve instead.  Not sure if that would affect anything...)
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>>  Now I am using a motorola A1200E "Motoming" (linux based ;) ) and it has
>>  a stylus too. I like very much the way the stylus is attached to my
>>  motorola and I would like to see it on the neo if it doesn't create
>>  large additional costs.
>>
>>  Check it out:
>>  http://direct.motorola.com/hellomoto/motomingedge/
>>
>>  ___
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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen

>| And according me Openmoko is doing in hardware what Linux made in
>| software! And it is great.
>
> Same feeling here!!!

OM is doing some very important things. The thing which is most important
to me, is if they can make all HW producers write their drivers in GPL and
provide all the specification needed for any usage of their HW.

I really want a Linux enabled phone powered by FOSS. OM are helping me
by providing HW and FOSS SW that works together. It is our job to port OM
to other devices (such as Neonode N2) and to write good SW.

There is pros and cons by being open and supporting everything and the
negative parts are:
  - codecs must be run in SW because of the lack of HW to handle all open
codecs.
This could be solved with a FPGA, but that is added cost. I hope we get
a FPGA in the future (they can be run time flashed in 1 micro sec for the
codec the SW needs and this can be automated).
  - very limited amounts of chips available with open specs.
  - etc, etc
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Re: Los Angeles / Southern California group sales

2008-05-08 Thread ian douglas

For something worth that much money, I don't see the point in declaring 
its value as less than the purchase price plus shipping -- if you 
declare it as a $100 phone and it gets broken or lost/stolen, you'd only 
be able to file an insurance claim for the $100 declared value and lose 
the extra $300 that you've spent.


-id


Kosa wrote:

Well yes, I will have to pay 15% of the value of the Freerunner,
but they don't need to know that the real value of the Freerunner
is 400 dollars. You could send it as a very low cost device and I
won't pay that much for taxes. I've done that before.



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Re: Los Angeles / Southern California group sales

2008-05-08 Thread Kosa


Well yes, I will have to pay 15% of the value of the Freerunner,
but they don't need to know that the real value of the Freerunner
is 400 dollars. You could send it as a very low cost device and I
won't pay that much for taxes. I've done that before.

Besides, I really want the pouch an the headset. = D

Could you?

Kosa

- Un mundo mejor es posible -

ian douglas escribió:
I've never shipped anything to Mexico, but I know from experience that 
shipping to Canada can cost extra money with customs, etc., so if 
that's the same with Mexico, you might be better off buying a single 
unit?


Anyone else know?

Kosa wrote:

Is there any chance I can join your group and ask you
or the one who gets the babies to ship one to me to
the Mexico City?

I have some friends who want to get one, but they
want to see it before buying it, and I think there won't
be a mexican group this time.

Thanks

Kosa

- Un mundo mejor es posible -

ian douglas escribió:
Assuming that Steve's last timelines are semi-accurate, unless more 
interest is generated by the end of the month, the Los Angeles group 
only has 4 interested parties -- would the other Southern California 
groups be willing to combine if none of us can reach enough orders 
for the 10-pack discount?


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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread David Samblas Martinez



And according me Openmoko is doing in hardware what Linux made in 
software! And it is great.
Same feeling here!!!
 

   
-

Enviado desde Correo Yahoo!
La bandeja de entrada más inteligente.
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Re: Los Angeles / Southern California group sales

2008-05-08 Thread ian douglas

I've never shipped anything to Mexico, but I know from experience that 
shipping to Canada can cost extra money with customs, etc., so if that's 
the same with Mexico, you might be better off buying a single unit?


Anyone else know?

Kosa wrote:

Is there any chance I can join your group and ask you
or the one who gets the babies to ship one to me to
the Mexico City?

I have some friends who want to get one, but they
want to see it before buying it, and I think there won't
be a mexican group this time.

Thanks

Kosa

- Un mundo mejor es posible -

ian douglas escribió:
Assuming that Steve's last timelines are semi-accurate, unless more 
interest is generated by the end of the month, the Los Angeles group 
only has 4 interested parties -- would the other Southern California 
groups be willing to combine if none of us can reach enough orders for 
the 10-pack discount?


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Re: Los Angeles / Southern California group sales

2008-05-08 Thread Kosa


Is there any chance I can join your group and ask you
or the one who gets the babies to ship one to me to
the Mexico City?

I have some friends who want to get one, but they
want to see it before buying it, and I think there won't
be a mexican group this time.

Thanks

Kosa

- Un mundo mejor es posible -

ian douglas escribió:
Assuming that Steve's last timelines are semi-accurate, unless more 
interest is generated by the end of the month, the Los Angeles group 
only has 4 interested parties -- would the other Southern California 
groups be willing to combine if none of us can reach enough orders for 
the 10-pack discount?


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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Michele Renda


Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:

Don't worry! No problem :)

I don't know what is happening, but I see in Internet also I a lot of 
person speaking with no-understandable comparations with other phone, 
watching more what is missing on this phone, and not what there is already.


And in the end they lost what want this phone to be.

I hope this phone will become big, and can show to all the potiality of 
open development. In this moment to me seem to live like in the first 
years where was born linux: on the begining no one was never thinking 
that the work of thousand free person can build a project so big and 
complete.


And according me Openmoko is doing in hardware what Linux made in 
software! And it is great.


So, steve... when you will send this phone to us? (If I am the 1.000.000 
person that ask this, I win somethig?)


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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen

> There is no need to use this tone. I already apologize about my idea. It was
> only an idea. I was not knowing that it was so difficult and so expensive
> for Openmoko.
> Also I want a GTA04, and also I want that OM employers are focused only in
> their work.

Sorry

> It was only an idea to improve Freerunner sales, it was not to have my 10%
> discount. It was more to save some expedition fees, that for me that I live
> in Europe will be a bit big.

I know, I live in Europe too. I really recommend the contract thing.

> So, please learn to understand mail that are a complain from mail that are
> ideas. It was only an idea. It will avoid a lot of flames, that I think is
> the last thing we need.

I just wanted to kill this idea right from the start, so we avoid
having 273 mails
about it.

As you say, you only wrote an idea, and I should not attack you. I am sorry
for that. I still want to kill your idea (but I think I did).

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Re: OM IDE (was: Re: Common Lisp for OM (Was: Programming OM))

2008-05-08 Thread Marco Trevisan (Treviño)


Lally Singh ha scritto:

Just to clarify, NB would run on a desktop computer, and cross compile for OM.

I'm imagining a situation not unlike CW for Palm (I had to dev on that
a few years ago).  It compiles the code and uploads it to the
emulator, which you can run the debugger on.  Then you upload it to
your OM device, and maybe do some more debugging on there.  I'll have
to see what's required to get the debugger working on both the
emulator and the actual dev.


You're figuring it really cool! :)

--
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http://www.3v1n0.net/


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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Michele Renda


Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:


Please do not ask for this. It would give OM so much extra work. The reason
for the 10-pack deal is that since it saves OM time and money, we get
a discount.
If you want OM to handle individual payments for group orders, they would
have much work with arranging this (deadline for when all in the group must
have payed, group_order_id to identify to which group you pay, etc)

I already told you that you can write a CONTRACT between YOU and the HUB
person. That will GARANTE you the PHONE OR MONEY BACK!
Please, instead of complaining, write this contract and maybe share it with
others.


OM has already given us a very low price. I do not believe the price
on the phone
covers all the expenses they have, so do not ask for a general 10% discount.

Please order a single phone if you have so much problems with a group order.

(I write this because I also want to buy a GTA04. I just want the open phones
and I don't understand why people complain about everything all the time)

  
There is no need to use this tone. I already apologize about my idea. It 
was only an idea. I was not knowing that it was so difficult and so 
expensive for Openmoko.
Also I want a GTA04, and also I want that OM employers are focused only 
in their work.


It was only an idea to improve Freerunner sales, it was not to have my 
10% discount. It was more to save some expedition fees, that for me that 
I live in Europe will be a bit big.


So, please learn to understand mail that are a complain from mail that 
are ideas. It was only an idea. It will avoid a lot of flames, that I 
think is the last thing we need.


Regards
Michele Renda

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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Gilbert Hartmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> |> Michele Renda wrote:
> |>> For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment
> fee.
> |> i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily
> |> packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish.
> |> so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount
> |>
> |> the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we
> |> are not paypal.
> |> we build the free and open mobile phone.
> |> and we want to focus on that.
> |
> | I agree with Joachim.
> |
> | And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering
> | the 10-pack could
> | make a simple contract for payment & delivery of the phone. Then
> | people could pay
> | and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub
> | person to prove
> | he sent the phone. The contract must include payment & shipping details.
> |
> | I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some,
> | because I do not
> | have enough cash to order 22 phones ++.
> |
> | I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone
> | deal. If people do
> | not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no
> | quantum discount.
> | This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing
> | the phone. They
> | are not a shipping&insurance company.
> |
>
> I think the request was for Openmoko to let 10 people pay separately, but
> still
> ship one package out. This solves half the trust issue people may have
> (namely,
> the money half) as well as the issue where someone has to have at least
> $3700
> around in order to place the order. My understanding was that there would
> still
> be one shipment, and that there would still be trust issues with whomever
> received the package, but there's still the community building aspect and
> such.

Please do not ask for this. It would give OM so much extra work. The reason
for the 10-pack deal is that since it saves OM time and money, we get
a discount.
If you want OM to handle individual payments for group orders, they would
have much work with arranging this (deadline for when all in the group must
have payed, group_order_id to identify to which group you pay, etc)

I already told you that you can write a CONTRACT between YOU and the HUB
person. That will GARANTE you the PHONE OR MONEY BACK!
Please, instead of complaining, write this contract and maybe share it with
others.


OM has already given us a very low price. I do not believe the price
on the phone
covers all the expenses they have, so do not ask for a general 10% discount.

Please order a single phone if you have so much problems with a group order.

(I write this because I also want to buy a GTA04. I just want the open phones
and I don't understand why people complain about everything all the time)

-- 
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Re: openmoko fans web site

2008-05-08 Thread Lally Singh

Excellent!!  Now all we need are discussion forums.

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Kim Alvefur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 14:53 -0400, Lally Singh wrote:
>  > A site like that would be great if it followed something like
>  > sourceforge.net, plus some discussion forums.
>
>  Like this: http://projects.openmoko.org/ ?
>
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-- 
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Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Los Angeles / Southern California group sales

2008-05-08 Thread ian douglas

Assuming that Steve's last timelines are semi-accurate, unless more 
interest is generated by the end of the month, the Los Angeles group 
only has 4 interested parties -- would the other Southern California 
groups be willing to combine if none of us can reach enough orders for 
the 10-pack discount?


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Re: openmoko fans web site

2008-05-08 Thread Kim Alvefur


On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 14:53 -0400, Lally Singh wrote:
> A site like that would be great if it followed something like
> sourceforge.net, plus some discussion forums.

Like this: http://projects.openmoko.org/ ?


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Re: openmoko fans web site

2008-05-08 Thread Lally Singh

A site like that would be great if it followed something like
sourceforge.net, plus some discussion forums.

Maybe we already have this sort of stuff, and (yet again), I'm clueless?

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My guess is that it's not up yet; he's yet to create it, and asking for our
> input as to what it should have.
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Mo Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> not working for me either... slashdotted?
>>
>> On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 08:53 -0500, Kosa wrote:
>> > not working...
>> >
>> > Kosa
>> > - Un mundo mejor es posible -
>> >
>> > luther escribió:
>> > > all,
>> > > we are prepare create the openmoko fans site, if anyone interest
>> > > it ,or any ideal please tell me!
>> > > the doman name is www.openmokofans.com
>> > >
>> > > Luther
>> > >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Openmoko community mailing list
>> > community@lists.openmoko.org
>> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>>
>>
>> ___
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>
>
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>



-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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RE: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Crane, Matthew

Yea, there's all kinds of ways that people use every day to transact
with others who they've no way of meeting or even calling on the phone.
If you are concerned, then maybe the price to fix the concern is to just
order the phone individually.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Flemming
Richter Mikkelsen
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:24 PM
To: List for Openmoko community discussion
Subject: Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Joachim Steiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> hi michele
>
> Michele Renda wrote:
>> For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more
payment fee.
>
> i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily
> packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish.
> so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount
>
> the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we
> are not paypal.
> we build the free and open mobile phone.
> and we want to focus on that.

I agree with Joachim.

And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering
the 10-pack could
make a simple contract for payment & delivery of the phone. Then
people could pay
and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub
person to prove
he sent the phone. The contract must include payment & shipping details.

I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some,
because I do not
have enough cash to order 22 phones ++.

I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone
deal. If people do
not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no
quantum discount.
This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing
the phone. They
are not a shipping&insurance company.

-- 
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See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Gilbert Hartmann


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Flemming Richter Mikkelsen wrote:
| On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Joachim Steiger
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|> hi michele
|>
|> Michele Renda wrote:
|>> For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee.
|> i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily
|> packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish.
|> so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount
|>
|> the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we
|> are not paypal.
|> we build the free and open mobile phone.
|> and we want to focus on that.
|
| I agree with Joachim.
|
| And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering
| the 10-pack could
| make a simple contract for payment & delivery of the phone. Then
| people could pay
| and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub
| person to prove
| he sent the phone. The contract must include payment & shipping details.
|
| I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some,
| because I do not
| have enough cash to order 22 phones ++.
|
| I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone
| deal. If people do
| not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no
| quantum discount.
| This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing
| the phone. They
| are not a shipping&insurance company.
|

I think the request was for Openmoko to let 10 people pay separately, but still
ship one package out. This solves half the trust issue people may have (namely,
the money half) as well as the issue where someone has to have at least $3700
around in order to place the order. My understanding was that there would still
be one shipment, and that there would still be trust issues with whomever
received the package, but there's still the community building aspect and such.

- --Bert
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFIIzdxVfxFjPpfJ3oRAr2zAJ95iWnZdy92/6A16sBhjfjL2qEefgCfZ7uE
FK4VAQ424+GpE+At4J9NmDE=
=OqvQ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Flemming Richter Mikkelsen

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Joachim Steiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi michele
>
> Michele Renda wrote:
>> For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee.
>
> i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily
> packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish.
> so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount
>
> the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we
> are not paypal.
> we build the free and open mobile phone.
> and we want to focus on that.

I agree with Joachim.

And one tips on how to solve this with payment. The person ordering
the 10-pack could
make a simple contract for payment & delivery of the phone. Then
people could pay
and as long as they can prove they payed, it would be up to the hub
person to prove
he sent the phone. The contract must include payment & shipping details.

I will make a group order and have this kind of contract with some,
because I do not
have enough cash to order 22 phones ++.

I think OM should just provide the 10-pack deal or the single phone
deal. If people do
not trust each other, then they order a single phone and get no
quantum discount.
This is not OM's problem. Please let OM do their job with developing
the phone. They
are not a shipping&insurance company.

-- 
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Join the FSF as an Associate Member at:
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Re: openmoko fans web site

2008-05-08 Thread Ryan Prior

My guess is that it's not up yet; he's yet to create it, and asking for our
input as to what it should have.

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Mo Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> not working for me either... slashdotted?
>
> On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 08:53 -0500, Kosa wrote:
> > not working...
> >
> > Kosa
> > - Un mundo mejor es posible -
> >
> > luther escribió:
> > > all,
> > > we are prepare create the openmoko fans site, if anyone interest
> it ,or any ideal please tell me!
> > > the doman name is www.openmokofans.com
> > >
> > > Luther
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
>
>
> ___
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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Joachim Steiger

hi michele

Michele Renda wrote:
> For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee.

i beg to differ. the whole handling would make the gain of readily
packaging 10-packs and ship these en bloc to one dest. vanish.
so larry is right. thats like requesting 10% generic discount

the whole point of it is: we are no escrow company, we are no bank, we
are not paypal.
we build the free and open mobile phone.
and we want to focus on that.


kind regards

-- 

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Openmoko Central Services

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Re: update - India sale of Freerunner

2008-05-08 Thread Giorgio M.

So you think that in 2-3 weeks freerunner will be ready for us?
I can't wait anymore...:)

thanks

Il giorno gio, 08/05/2008 alle 18.20 +0530, Kunal Singh ha scritto:
> Hi Rakshat,
> 
> It is sad to know that discounted slots are full.
> I just starting looking in to openMoko recently, and never knew 
> about discount. Gook luck to me in future.
> 
> Do you have any idea about as to when we can start booking 
> free-runner on the website (has the booking already started?). What is 
> the link? Do you mean www.idasystems.net website?
> 
>  Does this 20,000 include the debug board as well? (as per the 
> announcement on openmoko wiki, the $500 includes debug board as well).
> 
> Regards,
> Kunal Singh
> www.singhkunal.com
> 
> 
> rakshat hooja wrote:
> > A big thank you for all those who pre-booked the Freerunner at the 
> > highly discounted price of INR 15399/-. All the discounted slots are 
> > now full and the Freerunner can now only be booked form our website at 
> > the actual retail price of INR 20,000/- inclusive of shipping and all 
> > taxes. (In case there are any cancellations by the discounted price 
> > buyers we will offer it to the next customer on a first come first 
> > serve booking basis.)
> >
> > Those who have booked will be receiving an update about their expected 
> > shipping date in the next few days.
> >
> > We do realise that there are students and developers out there in 
> > India who would appreciate a discount on the Freerunner. We plan to 
> > offer a discount for these categories in the future (write to me - 
> > rakshat at idasystems.net  for more info on 
> > this) but at the moment we need to sell the Freerunner at a price that 
> > is commercially viable for us.
> >
> > We also received a few queries from outside India. At the moment Ida 
> > is not shipping the Freerunner outside India but I will look into it
> >
> > Thanks once again
> >
> > Rakshat
> >
> > www.idasystems.net 
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >   
> 
> 
> 
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Re: openmoko fans web site

2008-05-08 Thread Mo Abrahams

not working for me either... slashdotted?

On Thu, 2008-05-08 at 08:53 -0500, Kosa wrote:
> not working...
> 
> Kosa
> - Un mundo mejor es posible -
> 
> luther escribió:
> > all,
> > we are prepare create the openmoko fans site, if anyone interest it ,or 
> > any ideal please tell me!
> > the doman name is www.openmokofans.com
> >
> > Luther
> >   
> 
> ___
> Openmoko community mailing list
> community@lists.openmoko.org
> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community


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Re: openmoko fans web site

2008-05-08 Thread Kosa


not working...

Kosa
- Un mundo mejor es posible -

luther escribió:

all,
we are prepare create the openmoko fans site, if anyone interest it ,or any 
ideal please tell me!
the doman name is www.openmokofans.com

Luther
  


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Re: update - India sale of Freerunner

2008-05-08 Thread Kunal Singh


Hi Rakshat,

   It is sad to know that discounted slots are full.
   I just starting looking in to openMoko recently, and never knew 
about discount. Gook luck to me in future.


   Do you have any idea about as to when we can start booking 
free-runner on the website (has the booking already started?). What is 
the link? Do you mean www.idasystems.net website?


Does this 20,000 include the debug board as well? (as per the 
announcement on openmoko wiki, the $500 includes debug board as well).


Regards,
Kunal Singh
www.singhkunal.com


rakshat hooja wrote:
A big thank you for all those who pre-booked the Freerunner at the 
highly discounted price of INR 15399/-. All the discounted slots are 
now full and the Freerunner can now only be booked form our website at 
the actual retail price of INR 20,000/- inclusive of shipping and all 
taxes. (In case there are any cancellations by the discounted price 
buyers we will offer it to the next customer on a first come first 
serve booking basis.)


Those who have booked will be receiving an update about their expected 
shipping date in the next few days.


We do realise that there are students and developers out there in 
India who would appreciate a discount on the Freerunner. We plan to 
offer a discount for these categories in the future (write to me - 
rakshat at idasystems.net  for more info on 
this) but at the moment we need to sell the Freerunner at a price that 
is commercially viable for us.


We also received a few queries from outside India. At the moment Ida 
is not shipping the Freerunner outside India but I will look into it


Thanks once again

Rakshat

www.idasystems.net 





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update - India sale of Freerunner

2008-05-08 Thread rakshat hooja

A big thank you for all those who pre-booked the Freerunner at the highly
discounted price of INR 15399/-. All the discounted slots are now full and
the Freerunner can now only be booked form our website at the actual retail
price of INR 20,000/- inclusive of shipping and all taxes. (In case there
are any cancellations by the discounted price buyers we will offer it to the
next customer on a first come first serve booking basis.)

Those who have booked will be receiving an update about their expected
shipping date in the next few days.

We do realise that there are students and developers out there in India who
would appreciate a discount on the Freerunner. We plan to offer a discount
for these categories in the future (write to me - rakshat at
idasystems.netfor more info on this) but at the moment we need to sell
the Freerunner at a
price that is commercially viable for us.

We also received a few queries from outside India. At the moment Ida is not
shipping the Freerunner outside India but I will look into it

Thanks once again

Rakshat

www.idasystems.net
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Re: How many framebuffers does openmoko has?

2008-05-08 Thread David Samblas Martinez

Answered out the list
--- Bin Chen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:

> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:05 PM, David Samblas
> Martinez
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >  --- Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> escribió:
> >
> >  > no.
> >
> >  This is a clear answer X-D
> >
> What does X-D mean?
> 
> ___
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> 



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Re: Freerunner...when??

2008-05-08 Thread Lally Singh

Nobody's 100% sure (not even OM), but it looks like they'll do their
first production run in the next few (e.g. 3-5) days.  Should be
available a little bit after that, say 1-2 weeks?

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:27 AM, Giorgio M. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi to everybody,
>
>  i'm new in the community list and I have a simple question:
>  after a lot of time (too many time..), when (finally) Freerunner will be
>  sold exactly??
>
>  thanks
>
>   --
>   Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f
>
>   Sponsor:
>   CONCORSO BEST WESTERN
>  Gioca e vinci! In palio ogni giorno buoni sconto da 50€ per soggiorni in
>  tutto il mondo ed estrazione finale di una Citroen C1
>   Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=7802&d=20080508
>
>
>
>  ___
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>



-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Freerunner...when??

2008-05-08 Thread Giorgio M.

Hi to everybody,

i'm new in the community list and I have a simple question: 
after a lot of time (too many time..), when (finally) Freerunner will be
sold exactly??

thanks
 
 --
 Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f
 
 Sponsor:
 CONCORSO BEST WESTERN 
Gioca e vinci! In palio ogni giorno buoni sconto da 50 per soggiorni in
tutto il mondo ed estrazione finale di una Citroen C1
 Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=7802&d=20080508



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Re: How many framebuffers does openmoko has?

2008-05-08 Thread The Rasterman

On Thu, 8 May 2008 14:20:28 +0530 "Vishwas P S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> OK. In that case how do we prevent tearing of images on the screen ? i.e.
> how do we implement a tearing-less display solution ?
> Normally as far as I know, /dev/fb's memory would be mapped to apps and
> there is no way for the driver to sync memory updates with Vsync ... Pl
> correct me if I'm wrong

use xv... and pray. :)

> - Vishwas
> 
> 
> On 5/8/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 8 May 2008 13:16:37 +0530 "Vishwas P S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > babbled:
> >
> > > Can the display/video card recognize two planes (a BG and an FG) .. If
> > yes,
> > > it would be very easy to overlay one (FG )onto the other and the
> > app/driver
> > > generating the video(FG) data need not worry abt graphics FB and
> > delegate
> > > the job of combining to the hardware ?
> > >
> > > Is this a possibility on the Glamo ?
> >
> > no.
> >
> > > - Vishwas
> > > (Am sorry if this is an irrelavent question ... i've seen this on the
> > > Freescale chipset that i work on .. so am just curious to know if this
> > is a
> > > possibility)
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5/8/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:04:37 +0800 "Bin Chen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > babbled:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I just take a look at media player source code, seems the mplayer
> > use
> > > > > the fbdev directly instead of X. So I think there are two fbdev in
> > > > > system? One for X the other for mplayer?
> > > >
> > > > nup. there can be only one. (yes - bad quote...) :) yes. they will
> > > > conflict. if
> > > > both draw at once... you will get artifacts.
> > > >
> > > > > Otherwise it will conflict.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > Bin
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> 


-- 
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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Michele Renda


For openmok there is no difference, except than to pay x9 more payment fee.

I think if someone steal some money to some person, the damage of OM 
image will cost a lot more !


Lally Singh wrote:

So what you really want is for the OM store to give a 10% discount.

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:52 AM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

My Idea was this:

 Openmoko can manage all the orders and to receive the payments: they can
build a sites, that collect the orders, and with an option to indicate to
which Sales Group to receive (Update in real time with the number of
allocated phones).

 The person that is available to receive the phones has the work only to
receive and to fix a Saturday or a Sunday an appointament to a place.

 In this way:

 1. Is more easy to run with the money, not with 10 openmoko
 2. If a person can not to continue to  be the "hub", before the expedition,
Openmoko can simply to change the spedition address
 3. The situation will be more trasparent
 4. There will not be a problem if a person don't want more a phone.


 The cost of all this is only a web application and x 10 transaction fees
(that on 399 $ I hope are not too much)

 This is my idea



 Robin Paulson wrote:



steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing?

most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like
some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the
money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents?
or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c
card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there
anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making
sure things go smoothly?

thanks

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Re: How many framebuffers does openmoko has?

2008-05-08 Thread Bin Chen

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 5:05 PM, David Samblas Martinez
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  --- Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
>
>  > no.
>
>  This is a clear answer X-D
>
What does X-D mean?

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Re: How many framebuffers does openmoko has?

2008-05-08 Thread David Samblas Martinez


--- Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:

> no.

This is a clear answer X-D


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openmoko fans web site

2008-05-08 Thread luther

all,
we are prepare create the openmoko fans site, if anyone interest it ,or any 
ideal please tell me!
the doman name is www.openmokofans.com

Luther
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Re: How many framebuffers does openmoko has?

2008-05-08 Thread Vishwas P S

OK. In that case how do we prevent tearing of images on the screen ? i.e.
how do we implement a tearing-less display solution ?
Normally as far as I know, /dev/fb's memory would be mapped to apps and
there is no way for the driver to sync memory updates with Vsync ... Pl
correct me if I'm wrong

- Vishwas


On 5/8/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 8 May 2008 13:16:37 +0530 "Vishwas P S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
> > Can the display/video card recognize two planes (a BG and an FG) .. If
> yes,
> > it would be very easy to overlay one (FG )onto the other and the
> app/driver
> > generating the video(FG) data need not worry abt graphics FB and
> delegate
> > the job of combining to the hardware ?
> >
> > Is this a possibility on the Glamo ?
>
> no.
>
> > - Vishwas
> > (Am sorry if this is an irrelavent question ... i've seen this on the
> > Freescale chipset that i work on .. so am just curious to know if this
> is a
> > possibility)
> >
> >
> > On 5/8/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:04:37 +0800 "Bin Chen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > babbled:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I just take a look at media player source code, seems the mplayer
> use
> > > > the fbdev directly instead of X. So I think there are two fbdev in
> > > > system? One for X the other for mplayer?
> > >
> > > nup. there can be only one. (yes - bad quote...) :) yes. they will
> > > conflict. if
> > > both draw at once... you will get artifacts.
> > >
> > > > Otherwise it will conflict.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > Bin
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
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Re: Errr... 3d status?

2008-05-08 Thread The Rasterman

On Thu, 08 May 2008 10:23:30 +0200 "Pietro \"m0nt0\" Montorfano"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> Well, i don't want to make any flame/spam/anything-like-that, just a 
> question to clarify how is the situation. Well, on the neo freerunner 
> there will be the 3d capable chip which has its spec under NDA so it's 
> impossible for anyone not in the OM company to implement the 3d driver 
> and API right?
> If so, in OM there will be someone which will ever implement this driver?
> If not is there anyone out there which want to do that?
> If so is it possible to make this incredible person part of OM to get 
> around the NDA?
> Last but not least, the company which is making the 3d chip can be 
> persuaded in some manner to release the documentation about that chip (i 
> was thinking about anyone interested in the freerunner can write a 
> personal email to the company asking this...)?
> There will be a hope that one day the freerunner will have 3d capabilities?

nothing has changed here. the situation is as it was. nda needed for specs. 3d
not worth the effort needed to write the driver considering 2d is still not
anywhere as good as it should be. 

-- 
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: How many framebuffers does openmoko has?

2008-05-08 Thread The Rasterman

On Thu, 8 May 2008 13:16:37 +0530 "Vishwas P S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> babbled:

> Can the display/video card recognize two planes (a BG and an FG) .. If yes,
> it would be very easy to overlay one (FG )onto the other and the app/driver
> generating the video(FG) data need not worry abt graphics FB and delegate
> the job of combining to the hardware ?
> 
> Is this a possibility on the Glamo ?

no.

> - Vishwas
> (Am sorry if this is an irrelavent question ... i've seen this on the
> Freescale chipset that i work on .. so am just curious to know if this is a
> possibility)
> 
> 
> On 5/8/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:04:37 +0800 "Bin Chen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > babbled:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just take a look at media player source code, seems the mplayer use
> > > the fbdev directly instead of X. So I think there are two fbdev in
> > > system? One for X the other for mplayer?
> >
> > nup. there can be only one. (yes - bad quote...) :) yes. they will
> > conflict. if
> > both draw at once... you will get artifacts.
> >
> > > Otherwise it will conflict.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > Bin
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Openmoko community mailing list
> > > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > ___
> > Openmoko community mailing list
> > community@lists.openmoko.org
> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> 


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Re: Errr... 3d status?

2008-05-08 Thread Tom Cooksey

On Thursday 08 May 2008 10:23:30 Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano wrote:
> Well, i don't want to make any flame/spam/anything-like-that, just a 
> question to clarify how is the situation. Well, on the neo freerunner 
> there will be the 3d capable chip which has its spec under NDA so it's 
> impossible for anyone not in the OM company to implement the 3d driver 
> and API right?
> If so, in OM there will be someone which will ever implement this driver?
> If not is there anyone out there which want to do that?
> If so is it possible to make this incredible person part of OM to get 
> around the NDA?
> Last but not least, the company which is making the 3d chip can be 
> persuaded in some manner to release the documentation about that chip (i 
> was thinking about anyone interested in the freerunner can write a 
> personal email to the company asking this...)?
> There will be a hope that one day the freerunner will have 3d capabilities?

Two things:

1) Use the archives, this has been asked several times already:
http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2008-April/014709.html

2) Look at the Wiki, this has been asked several times already:

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Community_Updates#SMedia_3362_Documentation_.26_OpenGL_ES_Drivers


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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread David Pottage

On Thu, May 8, 2008 7:17 am, Robin Paulson wrote:

> it's not just the trust thing; it's for when things go wrong. there
> are many possible slip-ups between california and my house, and i
> would prefer knowing that if the unpredictable happens, we're all
> covered, and know where we stand.
>
> and US$4000 is a lot of money, for people i don't know; i'm just not
> that trusting. nor do i expect the others in my group to hand over
> that sort of cash with no cast-iron assurances

I think that the worry of things going wrong can be reduced if you form a
local group (or join an existing LUG) and hand over phones and cash in
person.

Personally, I would be quite wary about sending full or part payment for a
phone to someone I had never met in person, but I would be quite happy to
drive for a couple of hours to meet them at their house, give them cash
for a phone, and then come back a week later to collect the phone that had
been ordered, because I would know that they where a real person, and I
would know their street address in case they turned out to be a frudster.

If there was an arrangement to pay half before ordering and half on
collection and the group organizer wanted to take a copy of my photo ID to
protect themselves against me not turning up with the second payment, then
that would also be fine.

Conversely, if I was a group organizer, I would want everyone in the group
to visit me in person at least once to devlever money. If anyone who
wanted to conduct the whole transaction via post and email, I would want
the whole cost of the phone up front, and I would use a fully insured,
signature on delivery courier to deliver the phone, which would cost the
buyer more.

I realize that meeting up in person would not suit everyone, but I think
it is the best solution to resolve trust issues, even if you spend more on
fuel  driving to the meet than you save on postage.

-- 
David Pottage

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Errr... 3d status?

2008-05-08 Thread Pietro "m0nt0" Montorfano

Well, i don't want to make any flame/spam/anything-like-that, just a 
question to clarify how is the situation. Well, on the neo freerunner 
there will be the 3d capable chip which has its spec under NDA so it's 
impossible for anyone not in the OM company to implement the 3d driver 
and API right?

If so, in OM there will be someone which will ever implement this driver?
If not is there anyone out there which want to do that?
If so is it possible to make this incredible person part of OM to get 
around the NDA?
Last but not least, the company which is making the 3d chip can be 
persuaded in some manner to release the documentation about that chip (i 
was thinking about anyone interested in the freerunner can write a 
personal email to the company asking this...)?

There will be a hope that one day the freerunner will have 3d capabilities?



Thanks for any kind of reply!

Pietro

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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Lally Singh

So what you really want is for the OM store to give a 10% discount.

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:52 AM, Michele Renda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My Idea was this:
>
>  Openmoko can manage all the orders and to receive the payments: they can
> build a sites, that collect the orders, and with an option to indicate to
> which Sales Group to receive (Update in real time with the number of
> allocated phones).
>
>  The person that is available to receive the phones has the work only to
> receive and to fix a Saturday or a Sunday an appointament to a place.
>
>  In this way:
>
>  1. Is more easy to run with the money, not with 10 openmoko
>  2. If a person can not to continue to  be the "hub", before the expedition,
> Openmoko can simply to change the spedition address
>  3. The situation will be more trasparent
>  4. There will not be a problem if a person don't want more a phone.
>
>
>  The cost of all this is only a web application and x 10 transaction fees
> (that on 399 $ I hope are not too much)
>
>  This is my idea
>
>
>
>  Robin Paulson wrote:
>
> > steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing?
> >
> > most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like
> > some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the
> > money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents?
> > or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c
> > card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there
> > anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making
> > sure things go smoothly?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
> >
> >
>
>
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-- 
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech

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Re: questions for steve regarding group purchases

2008-05-08 Thread Michele Renda


My Idea was this:

Openmoko can manage all the orders and to receive the payments: they can 
build a sites, that collect the orders, and with an option to indicate 
to which Sales Group to receive (Update in real time with the number of 
allocated phones).


The person that is available to receive the phones has the work only to 
receive and to fix a Saturday or a Sunday an appointament to a place.


In this way:

1. Is more easy to run with the money, not with 10 openmoko
2. If a person can not to continue to  be the "hub", before the 
expedition, Openmoko can simply to change the spedition address

3. The situation will be more trasparent
4. There will not be a problem if a person don't want more a phone.


The cost of all this is only a web application and x 10 transaction fees 
(that on 399 $ I hope are not too much)


This is my idea

Robin Paulson wrote:

steve, what methods are being considered by openmoko for group purchasing?

most of us do now know the other members of a group and would like
some security that the group organised is not able to run off with the
money - are openmoko willing to engage in purchases via escrow agents?
or is it a case of 'sort it our amongst yourselves, all we want is a c
card number or paypal account'? if the latter is the case, is there
anything/anyone openmoko or anyone else here can recommend for making
sure things go smoothly?

thanks

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Re: How many framebuffers does openmoko has?

2008-05-08 Thread Vishwas P S

Can the display/video card recognize two planes (a BG and an FG) .. If yes,
it would be very easy to overlay one (FG )onto the other and the app/driver
generating the video(FG) data need not worry abt graphics FB and delegate
the job of combining to the hardware ?

Is this a possibility on the Glamo ?

- Vishwas
(Am sorry if this is an irrelavent question ... i've seen this on the
Freescale chipset that i work on .. so am just curious to know if this is a
possibility)


On 5/8/08, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 8 May 2008 11:04:37 +0800 "Bin Chen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> babbled:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just take a look at media player source code, seems the mplayer use
> > the fbdev directly instead of X. So I think there are two fbdev in
> > system? One for X the other for mplayer?
>
> nup. there can be only one. (yes - bad quote...) :) yes. they will
> conflict. if
> both draw at once... you will get artifacts.
>
> > Otherwise it will conflict.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Bin
> >
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>
> --
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>
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