Re: Stage of GTA03 development?
On Wednesday 17 December 2008 02:36, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:31:01 -0800 Sargun Dhillon xbmodder +openm...@gmail.com babbled: you might want to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect this killed an entire company - it ceased to exist. again. regardless of what you want - it makes no business sense to go parading around the next gen device before its ready to ship if you have an existing one. so you'll have to probably just sit and wait. :) Totally true, except for the fact that it didn't happen... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/20/no_osborne_effect_at_osborne/ Linked on that wikipedia page... Regardless, there may well be a Reverse Osborne Effect as well, I bought a Freerunner, but right now I probably wouldn't buy one again, but wait for the GTA03. If there was a definitive statement telling me that would take at least an other year to get done I might just buy a GTA02. And ofcourse there is the 'spend-money-only-once' syndrom, does it really matter if I buy a GTA02, or a GTA03 if I will never buy both anyway? People with plenty of money to spend on gadgets probably won't wait, people wo will wait probably won't by both anyway. But than again, I know nothing about marketing... AVee -- With/Without - and who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about? -- Pink Floyd ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Replacing the Openmoko Touchscreen
On Monday 18 August 2008 14:23, John Koenig wrote: It seems possible to get it replaced and it is pretty reasonable in terms of price as well (57 USD + 20 USD for shipping) . I have been in communication with this Chinese reseller: http://www.qinyielectronics.com I am going to be completing the transaction with them today. If you want to hold off purchasing until after I receive mine; I will be sure to post up the aftermath. At least that way if they are fraudulent only one of us will be out the cash ;). Any succes with this already? AVee -- Ogden's Law: The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Replacing the Openmoko Touchscreen
On Wednesday 13 August 2008 23:29, John Koenig wrote: Is it possible to remove the touchscreen from its mounting on the GTA02? Visually it looks possible, but it certainly doesn't seem to want to come out easily. Did you actually manage to get a new sceen yet? I #%([EMAIL PROTECTED]@#)$#%)[EMAIL PROTECTED] dropped my freerunner on the pavement which broke the screen. Please keeps us updated if you are actually going to repair your freerunner. I'm not very keen on getting a whole new freerunner just because the screen is broken. Anyone around with a GTA01 to get rid off or a freerunner which is broken in some other way? If that doesn't work i'll have to find some use for a 400Mhz low power debian system. A few lessons learned during my holiday: - The freerunner does work at altitudes above 2000m. - It will also work fine at speeds around 180 km/h... - ...but operating the touchscreen while driving isn't that easy. - (Up to ~140Km/h the speedometer of my car is remarkably accurate). - Just a heading towards your destination is generally quite usefull... - ...but less usefull when there's a huge mountain inbetween. - You can only use it as just GPS for more around 6 hours. - A nokia BL-5C makes a fine spare battery. - A toothpick is perfectly useable as a styles, cheaper to replace as well. - An cheapo usb car charger will happily charge at 1 amp. - You can drag it up and down a few mountains without problems. - You will break it during a 'save' trip to a nice old village... AVee -- Q) Which came first, the multithreaded chicken or the multithreaded egg? A) They came at the same time, but the multithreaded chicken terminated first. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Replacing the Openmoko Touchscreen
On Monday 18 August 2008 14:23, John Koenig wrote: It seems possible to get it replaced and it is pretty reasonable in terms of price as well (57 USD + 20 USD for shipping) . I have been in communication with this Chinese reseller: http://www.qinyielectronics.com I am going to be completing the transaction with them today. If you want to hold off purchasing until after I receive mine; I will be sure to post up the aftermath. At least that way if they are fraudulent only one of us will be out the cash ;). That's sounds far better then buying a whole new freerunner. I'll wait and see what happens to your order first... AVee -- Program testing can be a very effective way to show the presence of bugs, but is hopelessly inadequate for showing their absence. -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Setting / checking fast charge in /sys/devices/platform/whatever
On Monday 14 July 2008 21:44, Stroller wrote: ... I decided to try forcing the Freerunner to fast-charge, and a little Googling found me the CheckFastCharge-script on the Wiki [3]. Reading checkFastCharge.py I find that it checks '/sys/devices/ platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0008/chgmode' and that fast charging is indicated by fast_cccv there. Presumably this script was written for the Neo1973, however, or a different kernel, as on my Freerunner the location is '/sys/devices/ platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/chgmode' and it currently says fast, not fast_cccv (or, for that matter, slow or anything like that). So is fast the correct syntax for the Freerunner's chgmode? Has it somehow detected that the charger is capable of 500+ mA? Or should I echo fast_cccv to that location? What are the correct '/sys/devices/platform/s3c2440-i2c/i2c-adapter/ i2c-0/0-0073/chgmode' values for slow and no-charge for the Freerunner, please? (using the default factory image) Or is chgmode simply broken on the Freerunner's default factory image? Did you actually try this yet, and did it work? I just bought a car-charges which is supossed to be able to provide over 2A, but the freerunner will only pull 100mA which is annoying. A related question, the freerunner wil detect a 47k resitor in the official charger. Is this value measured and available in software somewere? We might be able to identify other chargers as well and build a database of ID resistors and allowed current (assuming other vendors use the same trick). AVee -- With clothes the new are best, with friends the old are best. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: strange problem with Intenso 4GB SDHC card
On Friday 25 July 2008 10:54, arne anka wrote: i got a 4 gig card too (can't say if from intenso, have to check the wrapping). my card's boot sector is not erased but -- after a resume the card is mounted wrongly! fstab says as mountpoint /media/card and after booting that's where the card is. after suspend/resume the card (often) is mounted to /media/mmcblk1p1 instead -- thus every attempt to read from or write to the sd card goes to the built-in memory instead. I can confirm seeing the same behaviour with a Sandisk 8GB card... AVee -- I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Reason for GPS problems found! / more patches
On Tuesday 22 July 2008 05:43, Simon Matthews wrote: So the fact you were OK at drive level 0 should mean are able to use SD card how you like without problems from SD_CLK to GPS any more. Surely the hardware and software 'fixes' can only be seen as a total fix if they make the SN (signal to noise ratio) of the GPS the same as if the SD card is not present. I would have thought that each of these modifications would improve the SN ratio but would not make it the same as not having the SD card present. I know it is hard but it would be nice to get some figures on how each of these modifications by themselves and together effect the SN ratio. It might turn out that the software clock drive solution by itself is as good as or better than adding the capacitor, and adding the capacitor does not improve the SN ratio any further once the clock drive mod is done, which would make it unnecessary. I haven't modded the hardware, but it do use the software fix. With the fix the GPS works great, I can't notice any difference with or without the SD card present. That is, as long as the SD card is idle, if you start hammering the card you will at least lose some precision. Inside my house I generally loose the fix when the SD card is stressed, not sure what will happen outside. But that's only when really hammering the card, incidental usage does not seem to affect the GPS performance in any way. AVee -- You know the great thing about TV? If something important happens anywhere at all in the world, no matter what time of the day or night, you can always change the channel. -- Jim Ignatowski ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: strange problem with Intenso 4GB SDHC card
On Thursday 24 July 2008 08:39, Doug Jones wrote: Mikael Berthe wrote: * Doug Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-07-24 01:21 +0200]: There have been some indications that partition type may have some effect on this problem on the OLPC. I doubt it. So, shrink the default vfat partition that came on the card and put an ext3 on there too. If you want to be adventurous, try some other types. Happens to me with ext3 partitions as well (or mixed vfat/ext3 partitions). However if I restore the partition table the data are not corrupted, at least so far it's been all right... Most people who use SD cards on OLPC are leaving them formatted as vfat, because Sugar can't see any other type. I don't recall seeing any reports of partition table mangling from these people, who are the vast majority of OLPC users. It's when they try something other than vfat that the corruption occurs. When it happened to me, I had one vfat and one ext3 on there. So on the OLPC at least, the corruption does seem to be correlated with partition type. I haven't been able to find a publicly available version of any SD Card or SDHC spec. But both of the documents below seem to suggest that fat32 is part of the specification: http://www.sdcard.org/about/sdhc/ http://www.kingston.com/flash/pdf_files/MKF_1127_SDHC_Topic_Paper.pdf If that is the case both the controller and logic on the card may assume it contains a single full-size fat32 partition. They surely will not be tested with anything other then fat32. Does anyone here have access to official specs from the SDCard Association? It be interesting to have at least a hint about what the spec says about partitioning... AVee -- I always finish what I... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GSM AT command to disable/change caller ID?
On Thursday 17 July 2008 11:09, Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:33:46 +0200, Ken Restivo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The command appears to be CLIR, and, unfortunately, there's no global setting for it. #31#PhoneNumber, means I have to type it before each call. On land phones, there's a *70 (or is it *71), to disable caller ID globally. So it appears that the Nokia is prepending #31# before each phone number it dials. Sorry, I was wrong, the permanent setting for CLIR is controlled by a GSM modem command AT+CLIR. But the #31# will work for as well, but only for the calls you to which you are prepending it. I guess the #31# thing is some kind on common standard among GSM carriers... AVee -- Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb? A: Only one, but it takes a long time, and the light bulb has to really want to change. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Has anyone tried the invisibleSHIELD on the freerunner?
On Thursday 17 July 2008 22:49, Brad Pitcher wrote: Yes, I'm using the full body shield and I really like it. It was somewhat difficult to apply but worth it. You don't need to take apart the FR and it comes with some spray that makes it so you can make little adjustments to the position of the shield directly after application. It is a little more reflective than the LCD was without it, but quite usable. So it the screen protector is a tight fit? I think I'd prefer one which is slightly bigger so the edges will disappear under the body. That should make it even more invisible... AVee -- The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't. -- Douglas Adams ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ears and FR
On Thursday 17 July 2008 02:26, Marco Trevisan (Treviño) wrote: Joerg Reisenweber wrote: Am Mi 16. Juli 2008 schrieb Joseph Reeves: I do it all the time ;-) I'd like a keypad lock during calls. I know that there's some options available during a call, but I'd much rather have to unlock them first. Of course, it doesn't have to be a lock that's particularly difficult to un-lock - pressing the aux button before the screen does anything would be great. Use the g-meters / gestures! FR on ear - locked. FR in front of face - unlocked. I'd say not only locked/unlocked but also with bright/dimmed screen; so it could be like having a proximity sensor :P That should be fairly doable if I understand the accelerometer stuff correctly. During a call the phone should be unlocked when its horizontal or vertical. Any other angle probably means your holding it against your ear... The dimming bit is very nice as well because it might help to save quite a bit of batterylife. AVee -- Love, love is a verb, love is a doing word. -- Massive Attack, Teardrop ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: In the press. The OpenMoko wiki - a tangled pile of mostly outdated and incomplete documentation.
On Thursday 17 July 2008 23:35, Dotan Cohen wrote: 2008/7/17 Brenda Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I am wiki full time editor of Openmoko. Thank you for your opinion . I will put more effort , to make wiki more easy to use. And now , If you want to know what we have on wiki , Please use this Index page. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page Brenda I'm going to upset some people with this post, but I think it's necessary. When I speak English, I make a conscious effort to be clear and to use correct grammar. That is because when non-native English speakers must communicate in English we often have trouble with the sentence structure and lack of gender to identify subjects. I think that whoever maintains the wiki should have a very firm grasp of English grammar. Not necessarily a native speaker (as they often have bad grammar in my opinion, probably because they have no trouble deciphering the meaning of the sentence anyway). I mean no offense, Brenda, but English with Asian grammar (I'm assuming Asian based on the grammar style and your last name) is very difficult to read and understand. I hope that my criticism is seen as constructive and not personal, because I mean no offense yet I'd like to see the wiki maintained by someone more qualified. I think you do raise a valid point. However, I also think it perfectly ok to seperate the purely content related redaction from the linguistic issues. As far as I can see there is absolutely no problem with the content itself. Maybe someone should proofread it before it's posted. Or after it is posted, it's a wiki after all, you really should just correct any errors you find. AVee -- It isn't an optical illusion. It just looks like one. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Ears and FR
On Friday 18 July 2008 00:05, Hans L wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:31 PM, AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That should be fairly doable if I understand the accelerometer stuff correctly. During a call the phone should be unlocked when its horizontal or vertical. Any other angle probably means your holding it against your ear... I don't think it will be that simple. If I pick up my cellphone and hold it in a natural position in front of me(as if i were about to press a button to hang up), it is neither completely vertical nor horizontal. Making assumptions about orientation of a phone when held against someone's ear, versus how they hold it in their hands might not work well in all cases. I do think it might just work well enough if the accelerometers provide sufficient data. Additionally it could be adapted to you personal habbits. The movement you make when you take the phone away from your ear to hangup is probably pretty much the same every time, sufficiently smart software could learn to recognize it. But it should definately provide a fallback unlock (aux button, screen gesture, whatever) and it probably should be biased towards locking, at least during a phone call to prevent you from accidentally hanging up. AVee -- He who laughs, lasts. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Visually Impaired?
On Friday 11 July 2008 15:51, Joseph Reeves wrote: My very first thought... How about overlaying the screen with a sheet of rubber buttons? I'm thinking of the sort of thing that you get inside cheap mobile phones, TV remotes, pocket calculators; that sort of stuff. The number 5 would have the bump on it and the keys would simply push against the touchscreen. Let me know if that's not a great description... It would work, but perhaps we could get close enough without it. We surely should be able to provide feedback about the location of certain keys either using the vibrator or using sound. We could even consider make the phone say what a button means, although i'm pretty sure most blind will manage with a basic 'here is a button' and 'this is five' indication once they know the layout. But a specialized ui for the blind is an interesting idea. The funny thing is we could just leave display of and increase batterylife. AVee -- Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS
On Tuesday 08 July 2008 03:25, W.Kenworthy wrote: On Mon, 2008-07-07 at 20:47 +0200, Francesco Cat wrote: Another thing that might help: If the FR is connected to any network one should also be able to use IP Locator services like http://whatismyipaddress.com/ to get another extimation of the location of FR. They are usually quite accurate. Would this help? How accurate does the AGPS prefix need to be to be useful? - the above locator is ~20-25km out for me (In Perth, Western Australia) using a public IP. Not really my idea of quite accurate! It's just initialisation data. More accurate will probably be better, but 20km of doesn't sound that bad. It sure is *way* better than not even knowing which hemisphere you're in. Actually it think just knowing which country your in will make a big difference allready. We could consider devising a list of country/location data, assuming we can get country information from the GSM network (or the SIM card perhaps?). Just adding this to the GPS initialisation might allready reduce the time needed to get a fix hugely. AVee -- AMAZING BUT TRUE ... If all the salmon caught in Canada in one year were laid end to end across the Sahara Desert, the smell would be absolutely awful. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS
On Tuesday 08 July 2008 13:09, flexd wrote: What i did with my phone (using the script stuff Al posted), i took my position from google maps, simply by finding my home, centering it, and making a link. In the link you can see the coordinates and use the spreadsheet attached to his mail to calculate the right x,y,z. This works very well, i've been able to get a fix easy now. If you've got the time, could you retest this using a location some 500km from your real location? It should be interesting to see whether that will still get you a fix reasonably fast. If it does having a very rough idea of where you are is good enough to get a fast fix and we could start thinking of a more generic solution. AVee -- I always finish what I... ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: ancient hardware?
On Monday 07 July 2008 05:02, Ajit Natarajan wrote: Hello, ... So, I don't understand the comments on ancient parts. What have we compromised on by choosing these parts? Hardware choice will always be a compromise. In this case it's largly between performance, price, size and energy usage. There will always be something 'better', a faster CPU (even though will use more energy), a bigger battery (even though it does increase size) etc... Ofcourse FIC could be building a custum phone tailored to our individual needs, but that would be kind of (well, hugely) expensive. At the current price it looks like this is a good combination of components, and I do like the current price :) AVee ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Ping Christoph [Was: Re: Freerunner @ pulster.eu Shop]
On Monday 30 June 2008 18:31, Detructor wrote: yep, I've a confirmation for the 5th ;) the early geek catches the Freerunner :D Christoph, Could you update the list on the status of orders for which no confirmation was recieved yet. A lot of people are unsure if they made it into the first batch, is there any change of being in the first batch when the order isn't confirmed yet? Hopefully answering this to the list will save you a some of the individual questions... AVee ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: The glamo chip and its future
On Saturday 28 June 2008 18:37, Kosa wrote: !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN html head meta content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type title/title /head body bgcolor=#ff text=#00 br br Yorick Moko escribioacute;: blockquote cite=mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] type=cite snip If you really want us to read whatever it is your telling is you really should stop posting html emails... AVee -- AMAZING BUT TRUE ... If all the salmon caught in Canada in one year were laid end to end across the Sahara Desert, the smell would be absolutely awful. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS
On Tuesday 24 June 2008 14:45, john wrote: 2008/6/24 Jisakiel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [snip] - Is it possible then to fetch approximate position from the associated GSM towers then? I guess it depends on the subset of commands the chip implements, but I didn't have the time to read over those *extensive* documents as I'm still finishing my exams. I somehow suspect though that the GSM commands do not cover for that, and that'd be proprietary for the chip... Please correct me if I'm mistaken. I have no idea as well on how precise is that. [snip] Well if you mean obtain coordinates via triangulation it is technically possible but in reality we are constrained by the GSM operators and what information they are willing to give us. If you are a large corporation such as Google and throw them some money you will get access to such data. As Joe Public you will probably have to rely on closed third party API's (e.g. Skyhook) to access similar functionality or alternatively try one of the community driven database lookup approaches. I'm no expert on the subject, but my impression was that even a very rough position would help to reduce the time to fix. Where rough would be in the 'which country' range. If that's not good enough data fetched from http://celldb.org/ might help as well. AVee -- Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. -- Douglas Adams ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: bluetooth proximity
On Monday 16 June 2008 14:40, David Kepplinger wrote: Hi, I don't think that's feasible. To measure (with 2 devices) you need two very synchronous clocks and a very exact measurement. Because the signal travels with approximately the speed of light (about 300.000 km/s), an error of 1µs is an error of 300m. There are a lot of reasons why this is not feasible. Sorry. I tend to agree, however, things might change if you add gps. You'd might just transmit your own speed and location, although you will probably hate the precision of that without DGPS (which may never work on the Freerunner) and if may not work al that well indoors. But GPS could also solve the first problem you mentioned, it can provide the same clock to the two device. That leaves only the 'exact measurement' to be solved. It might work, but the precision will probably still be far to low to be useable for anything. AVee -- Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. -- Albert Einstein ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Spam
On Sunday 15 June 2008 13:36, Mo Abrahams wrote: Did anybody else notice a huge increase in the spam they get since they first joined this mailing list? I never used to get any, and within a week of joining this list I get lots. I use a unique email adress for this list, but my spam folder doesn't hold a single email with that adresses anywhere in it. So at least there wasn't any spam in the last 20 days... AVee -- You've been warned! If you fall and break your leg, don't come running to me! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Why not use forum?
On Thursday 12 June 2008 17:30, Leonti Bielski wrote: Hi! I was wondering - why are we not using forum for community? It's much better to view, you can subscribe and unsubscribe to the topics you want and etc. The main Personally I don't like mailing list because it's not that comfortable and I can see no advatages of using mailing list instead of forum? Can anyone explain to me why we can't install We really aren't going to redo this discussion again, are we? Last time we had these discussion[1] it ended up with some seting up a forum[2] on http://forums.makeopensource.com/ Go there and be happy with your forum if thats what you really want, but please stop redoing the same discussion over and over again. AVee [1] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/thread.html [2] http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/008008.html -- Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS -- AGPS
On Sunday 08 June 2008 18:07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 08 June 2008 10:41:37 Brad Midgley wrote: Tim gpsd has a mode where it listens to both the gps and an online dgps source and produces corrected output. See the manpage for gpsd. I think you have to have the unit online continuously. Does gpsd have control over the various satelite signals? I thought D-GPS only works before position calculation. If gpsd only gets the composed position, then it's not possible to do D-GPS. I'm not an expert here, but maybe correction does require more raw data. It might depend on what the protocol is between gpsd and the gps. The gpsd docs don't shed any more light on it. It would be a good question for the gpsd mailing lists. The problem here is not with gpsd but rather that we might not be able to get the required raw satellite measurements out of the Antaris chip due to some licence restriction :( Not having a Freerunner at hand, I wrote a crude test program for accessing the required rxm-raw message of the GPS chip and sent it to Andy Green. The results were not encouraging - although I'd love to hear some official statement about the license status for the GPS chip before jumping to premature conclusions but currently it seems that DGPS will not be possible with the Freerunner. It indeed looks like that, which is a pity, because this could have been a feature really setting the Freerunner apart from other devices. AVee -- You are only young once, but you can stay immature indefinitely. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
OT: TinyURL [Was: OT: ajax image galleries]
On Wednesday 04 June 2008 22:55, Andy Powell wrote: tinyurl is useful instead of typing in twattishly long urls which many sites insist on using. Generally you don;t want to click on a link provided by someone you don't know/trust. Not only that but if I use this url as an example - look what your mail client / this mailing list does to it (break it on wrap) If looked, the long url is perfectly fine, on one line and clickable. So the mailing list doesn't break anything, neither does does my mail client. Having said that, tinyurl might actually make live easier for some people (e.g. those who should get a decent mail client), I don't 'hate' them. But please at least also include the original url. These mails are archived and both the email and the linked page may outlive the tinyurl service. You might end up loosing usefull information there. AVee -- AMAZING BUT TRUE ... There is so much sand in Northern Africa that if it were spread out it would completely cover the Sahara Desert. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: atomic clock / radio-receiver chip
On Sunday 01 June 2008 21:33, Ilja O. wrote: On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 9:26 PM, cdr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And portable thermonuclear bomb. Just in case. (Well, phone is already hand interface to several orbital atomic clocks, isn't it?) the atomic clock(s) arent orbiting the earth, But why there are no clocks at the orbit? They could be useful enough. E.g. if there are several of them each on predefined geostationary orbit we could do lots of useful things with them! For example, we could prove that general relativity indeed exists (although ionosphere would likely to spoil party at some degree). You could actually use it to calculate your position anywhere on the surface of the earth. Lets call it Global Positioning System (GPS). Really, what you describe here is exactly what GPS does, and you can indeed use GPS to get an acurate time... AVee -- You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: using the openmoko neo101 in mass storage mode
On Friday 30 May 2008 14:31, Andy Green wrote: Somebody in the thread at some point said: | On Fri, May 30, 2008 10:09 am, Andy Green wrote: | ~ But not mass storage: this operates in block mode and requires | complete ownership of the storage by the host then (since if we have it | mounted too, we will write conflicting things to directory structures, | etc). | | Could we emulate a block device, so that Windows thinks it has sole | ownership of a USB block device with a FAT32 FS on it, but for every | block access call it makes we intercept the call, figure out what file | windows is trying to read or write to, make the corresponding change to | our local files (on and ext3 volume), and return emulated results back to | windows. | | I dare say windows would get confused if I file it had cached got changed | by Linux, but the user could probably put up with that. This was proposed before, but it sounds horrible to me. Linux knows already how to deal with sharing a mounted filesystem over the network, better to go on leveraging stuff at that layer. PC use might not be the only reason to be interested in getting the neo to do mass storage. There are quite a few consumer devices (like my dirt cheap car stereo) which are able to read from mass storage devices. I'd be nice if the neo could be used to feed data to those devices. (Ultimate dream: a mass-storage device which fakes an endless audiofile allowing the freerunner to stream audio to mp3 playing devices. That could provide in-car internet radio, and stuff like navigation instructions...) Apart from that, the end-user usability of USB mass-storage is far better then any other solution. I'd be perfectly happy useing sftp or whatever, but that not really grandma proof. But, yeah, from a purely technical perspective it's horrible... AVee -- There must be a beginning of any great matter, but the continuing unto the end until it be thoroughly finished yields the true glory. -- Sir Francis Drake ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: My experience with the Freerunner
On Thursday 29 May 2008 21:58, ian douglas wrote: Andy Green wrote: | Taking Lasse's advice, I set up a new test last night: Just a little point about these tests, AIUI the GPS stuff acts radically differently in terms of current consumption depending on the distance from the base station. ... I think that knowing a best case scenario (where you stay in the same location), you get about 6 hours of talk time, is still helpful. Cell phone manufacturers typically report a best case scenario when reporting talk time and standby time, with the legalese and fine print stating that your results may vary from their data. This test might not even be 'best case'. A better test would be having the Neo really close to the cell tower for optimal conditions. I guess the difference between testing far away from the cell tower and testing close to the tower might be pretty big. There probably also is a difference between GSM900 and GSM1800 (iirc 1800 has a lower range which needs to be compensated by higher transmission power). AVee -- When a man sits with a pretty girl for an hour, it seems like a minute. But let him sit on a hot stove for a minute -- and it's longer than any hour. That's relativity. -- Albert Einstein ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Email disclaimers [Was: Value of headsets and pouches for 10 pack orders?]
On Friday 16 May 2008 07:19, Wilkinson, Alex wrote: IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the CRIMES ACT 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email. Is there actually someone in the Australian Defence Organisation who really thinks this is usefull? How do you guys defend your country, using red tape? Email disclaimers are annoying and useless. They are even more annoying and useless when send to mailing lists. Please either talk some common sense into the one who dreamed this up or us a proper emailservice somewhere. AVee -- A radioactive cat has eighteen half-lives. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Dash GPS personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API
On Wednesday 14 May 2008 07:14, Ron K. Jeffries wrote: Dash GPS personal nav device (uses OpenMoko) opens API It's sorta funny, but nobody here says a word about Dash, the Freerunner's red-haired step-sister device, OEM'd from FIC as I understand things. One of the reasons might be: http://presales.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/presales.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=122 It's not just that maps aren't there, they don't seem to really care about the european market either. With a bit of effort they could be selling those with map data from all kinds of suppliers, or at least with support for the data formats of popular european maps. Frankly, it seems to be more about selling the service plan anyway. I'd rather wait for the device thats able to make phone calls as well... AVee -- It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Alarmclock puzzle
On Tuesday 13 May 2008 18:34, Mo Abrahams wrote: Although people will have to start setting their final alarm for ten minutes earlier than they really need to get up, to give them time to solve the really hard puzzle without making themselves late anyway. How sensitive is GPS? An alarm that doesn't turn off until you leave your bedroom would be a good one. The GPS might just be sensible enough, problem is though, it can only measure where the phone is. I can just see those neo's (freerunners, sorry) flying right out of the window. :) AVee -- Write a paper promising salvation, make it a 'structured' something or a 'virtual' something, or 'abstract', 'distributed' or 'higher-order' or 'applicative' and you can almost be certain of having started a new cult. -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Request for stable, automated build process
On Sunday 04 May 2008 22:17, Ian Darwin wrote: You want repeatable builds? Write a build system that saves the complete name and MD5 of every file, and checks every file that it downloads before using it, every time. Pssst: http://hudson.gotdns.com/wiki/display/HUDSON/Fingerprint AVee -- But such co-operation is of course based on the theory that, when you tie two stones together, the combination will float. -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 99 vs RED (or was it PINK) Phone cases
On Monday 21 April 2008 17:45, steve wrote: I want a software switch that says unLEDed so I can turn blinking lights off on any app if I so choose. And then there also is a hardware solutions. A very generic one, available in any half-decent hardware store. I think they call 'm cutting pliers and will make sure those leds will never be turned on again... AVee -- You've been warned! If you fall and break your leg, don't come running to me! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Don't ship GTA02v5 without the rework
On Saturday 19 April 2008 03:38, Steven Le Roux wrote: I totally agree with you. I understand everybody is happy to see the neo coming, but don't forget the goal :) : to provides the best free phones. It wouldn't be pleasant for us to by a phone, knowing there is a known issue with optimisation of power consumption and LED stuff.. I understand the rush ;) but we can wait... Maybe you can, and in that case, feel free to wait until the v6 hits the shop. But why should that stop the production of the v5? It all still sounds like just turning off the leds solves the problem, I don't consider that to be a showstopper. If there were no leds at all, i'd still would have bought it... AVee -- You've been warned! If you fall and break your leg, don't come running to me! ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: next costumers location
On Monday 14 April 2008 01:13, steve wrote: A. We killed the orange colored phone. May it rest in peace. *snif* I will now forever (or at least the rest of the day) regret not buying a GTA01. AVee -- Never eat more than you can lift. -- Miss Piggy ___ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: 2007.11 snapshot available
On Wednesday 05 December 2007 10:14, Thomas Wood wrote: Obviously T9 will not be implemented due to patent issues. I will ask him if the source is available anywhere. Do you (or anyone else) happen to have any background on this T9 patent issue? I seem to find a US Patent and some stories about US lawsuits, but I'm not sure the patent really is a problem outside of the US. It might just be possibly to publish T9 capable software when it is developed and hosted outside the US. I at least like to believe I can still publish any piece of software here, without having to worry about stupid patents, and frankly T9 seems to be pretty trivial to implement. We would have to name it differently tough, T9 is a trademark of Tegic Communications... AVee -- Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: SIM card read/write [was Re: SIM Card Copy]
On Tuesday 27 November 2007 23:08, Ian Darwin wrote: However, it would be nice if you could just put a sim card into the Neo (or other OpenMoko) phone, select copy sim to softsim from the menu, and have a software copy of the sim available in the phone. Then you could change back to another physical sim card, and you would have dual sim capability in the phone without the need for any extra hardware at all. Be careful what you wish for :-) The physical SIM serves as an authentication token, which is why they are made difficult to copy. If you lose a phone (or an SD card) with a copy of your SIM credentials, anybody finding it can make phone calls at your expense, and (at least in the case of the SD card) you might not notice the loss until this problem had become very expensive. And don't look for a freefund -- I doubt that any carrier would be at all sympathetic to *this* sob story! Another 'nice' addition to this would be a application which generates random SIM cards, until you find one which actually connect to the network. I anyone pulls off the SIM copy functionality someone else will do this and one day they may hit your SIM. Leaving your phone out of sight for a few minutes may put you at risk of having your SIM card cloned, and you won't know until its to late. And using your SIM for criminal activities sure beats an anonymous prepaid card. I'm all for functions to copy phonebook data and other stuff like that, actually i'd consider that basic functionality for any GSM phone, but cloning the authentication part of a SIM card is a can of worms I'd rather keep tightly closed. AVee -- Murder is always a mistake -- one should never do anything one cannot talk about after dinner. -- Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
On Monday 26 November 2007 03:36, Piotr Duda wrote: Ian Darwin pisze: [...] And you can power off any cell phone, [...] This could not be enough. At the beginning of this list there was some discussion about a case where feds recorded chats of some mafia guy with his own car's mobile, which was turned off. IIRC that was possible because they remotely changed his phone firmware in the first place... True, stuff like that is possible, at least with some phones. But removing the battery is still a very effective way to make sure your phone is really shut, by the time they find a way to make 'm work without electicity you will hear about it. AVee -- Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: /. : Feds Have Access To Cellphone Tracking On Request
On Monday 26 November 2007 12:51, Shachar Shemesh wrote: flexd wrote: Wow that's alot of replies for something i wrote so quickly. I didn't really mean it all seriously, and im all for being untrackable and all, like you guys say. But if they wanna track me, then fine, they can if they want. I just pity the fool that's gonna sit and monitor my boring life. The purpose of privacy is not to protect the majority from being snooped on. The majority is immune from tracking, simply for not stepping out of line. The purpose of privacy is precisely so that people CAN step out of line. Most of the people who do not conform to what is called standard practices at the time are weirdos, imbalanced or criminals, but every once in a while the people stepping out of line is doing so because they truly and honestly see something the majority doesn't. If they persist enough, their non conformist behavior of today will become the norm tomorrow, simply by dint of it being better. And this is where giving up privacy really hurts everyone, as a society. It makes stepping out of the norm even more difficult than it already is, and thus sells our tomorrow for some theoretical gains today. If people were discouraged from stepping out of line 20 years ago, we wouldn't have free software today. A point well made. There are several others as well. When it comes to large scale survailance you also must ask if you trust everybody who has or might gain access to this information, now and in the future. Access to the current location of you and other members of your household might, for example, easily reveal there is currently nobody at home. A know a certain 'profession' where this is very usefull information... And there are quite a few more arguments, a lot of them can be found here: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/05/the_value_of_pr.html Be sure to read the comments also. AVee -- AMAZING BUT TRUE ... There is so much sand in Northern Africa that if it were spread out it would completely cover the Sahara Desert. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: No Android on the Neo1973 - Only MyPhone left
On Thursday 22 November 2007 10:56, Shaul Kedem wrote: Hi, One of his ways out of this is Google releasing the source and someone else compiling for ARMv4. now google said they will open the source (they have no choice, its GPLv2) so I'd wait and see what happens, rant It's not GPLv2 until they actually release it under that license, until now they seem to release only the part they absolutely have to. I am pretty sure Google is not going to release anything allowing anyone to run Android on a actual phone until the first official Android phone has had it's head-start. They will do so to allow their 'partners' a head start, they need to do this to keep them on board. After all, why join a consortium when everybody else gets the same thing? There are some companies in that consortium with notoriously bad track records when it comes to open-source, they did not just change overnight just because Google told them to. First the partners will get to reap Android, after that maybe the community will get something. Welcome to open-source the Google way. Ofcourse this doesn't stop Google from claiming they are so very open... Fact is, they may be a huge user of open-source, they are a lousy contributor and a lousy community member. For now, i'd rather buy an iPhone, just because at least it doesn't pretend to be open. /rant AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GTK vs QTopia vs Android -
On Monday 19 November 2007 14:54, Marcelo Lira wrote: Free software is worth encouraging. Status quo closed source is not. So, this is a problem, but it is ok to use free software to help the growth of a company that profits in selling licenses for closed source software? Trolltech GPL's most of the code it develops, which guarantees that software will remain free ad infinitum. So ya, equating the copyright assignment for both FSF and Trolltech is the same. Yes, GPL guarantees that, but a library in GPL is not that useful for a developer that sometimes have to do closed source apps. First Qtopia is not open enough, and now they should allow everybody else to be totally closed source. What is this, you should be allowed to develop commercial closed source software, but Trolltech is not allowed to try to make money of Qtopia? Sorry, but you just can't have the cake, and eat it as well. And please don't start with the I will not help anyone developing closed source discourse, since a number of free projects contributors have to do this, support themselves with the money earned so they can continue contributing. Indeed to have a full time open source programming job is a dream for most people I know. Even FSF releases its libraries in LGPL, well, they created it. For this there will be no practical possibility of community fork for Qt or Qtopia, and weakening the force of the community in the decisions. Why is that? You can perfectly create you own fork of Qtopia, I see how it may not be very usefull and wothwhile, but nothing else is stopping you. I really believe that you at Trolltech are not willing to abuse your position, but what if Qtopia is the ubiquitous software platform to develop upon, so that there is no thinkable alternative? What if all you good guys, that I could trust, get out of Trolltech, and managers that could not get a job at Microsoft replace you, and change the way you work with the developers? Can you guarantee that this will never happen? I doubt. I pretty sure they cannot guarantee that, but when that happens you've reached the point where it becomes worthwhile to start a fork of Qtopia. And although there is no guarantee, the fact that this option will allways be open will go a long way in preventing Trolltech from doing nasty things, because the community will just pick up the code and create a fork. And a copyright assignment with FSF, a non-profit organization, and with Trolltech, a regular company, is not the same. We cannot let the licenses think for ourselves. So, you do trust the FSF to be nice until eternity? Frankly, that seems pretty naive to me. At less Trolltech has a commercial interest in being nice and not pissing of there customers, the FSF has no such interests and its actions will just be defined by however is going to be running that club in the future. Surely that a lot of (obviously for profit) companies back the GTK+, Hildon and other LGPL/other-permissive-license libraries and tools, but the sinergy of sometimes conflicting interests is a good thing, and helps to avoid the possibility of an unilateral control that benefits one part more than the others. All true, but all of that does nothing to promote open source. It just lowers the costs of the closed source offerings of these companies. Good for them, but I couldn't care less. Not that this is a bad thing, it helps paying my bills as well. But when Trolltech basically says; If your are makeing money of our work we want a slice of the pie thats very reasonable to me. When others want to allow companies to make big money of there code thats fine too, but there is no moral obligation for anyone to do so. Lorn, I don't want to offend you and the company you work and surely love, and the products that are technically great, I just don't think that this model is strategically good for all projects. Suggest a better model, when it takes into account the fact that Trolltech should be able to pay salaries to its developers it may just be considered. Until there is a better idea it seems to me that this model does more for open source than the IBM 'take a lot, give a bit back' or the Google 'Grab what you can get' model. AVee -- A man with one watch knows what time it is. A man with two watches is never quite sure. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Email App (why openmoko-apps not on gmane?)
On Wednesday 21 November 2007 14:40, Lars Hallberg wrote: Is there a reason this list and others like the owner list is *not* available on gmane? Would be far easier to follow. Help yourself: http://gmane.org/add.php AVee -- All true wisdom is found on T-shirts. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement
On Saturday 17 November 2007 21:09, Joshua Layne wrote: Ted Lemon wrote: On Sat, 2007-11-17 at 11:19 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote: I'd like to explore adding a head mounted display to the Neo, like the i-glasses PC/SVGA Head Mounted Display at about $700. Would require an off-board SVGA controller, which could be prototyped with a USB SVGA controller, assuming Linux drivers can be found. I think when you add all the pieces together, this isn't going to be a cost-effective solution, and it's not going to perform well either. Head mounted displays need to get higher resolution before they're worth the money. What's the point of having a six-foot-tall screen in your visual field if it's only 640x480? And having direct access to the frame buffer makes a big difference in performance. I like the way you're thinking, though - if it were possible to get WUXGA glasses, that would completely solve the portable display problem. And I don't think it's out of the question - it's just too soon. The parts you'd need to make one are only just becoming available. But it's with this in mind that I mention the DVI output - you really don't want to plug VGA into a display like that. agreed. meanwhile, and I am well aware that this isn't FIC/OpenMoko hardware, but for a portable laptop replacement, I think the upcoming Nokia N810 is a pretty good fit. no phone, but that's what the neo is for. still waiting on the unification device - one handheld to rule them all. Your not the only one. The Nokia N810 has 2 advantages compare to the NEO, it has a keyboard and a slightly bigger display. However, it does force me to carry two devices, which is a major disadvantage. Maybe one day there will be a NEO like device with a proper foldable display. Or perhaps a build in beamer of some sort. Then add the laser projection keyboard thinkgeek sells and find all hope of a decent battery live is gone ;-) AVee -- Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job. -- Douglas Adams ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973/OpenMoko as a laptop replacement
On Friday 16 November 2007 02:11, Ted Lemon wrote: On Thu, 2007-11-15 at 23:11 +0100, Erland Lewin wrote: I imagine a kit the size of a regular book for the Neo containing a fresnel lens with a frame for attaching to the phone, a foldable keyboard, a small mouse, and a battery pack loadable with, say, 2 regular 'C' size batteries. The keyboard needs to be an old manual typewriterkeyboard, and the UI should be white on black for maximum compatibility with Brazil. Seriously, though, I think this is a cool idea, but once you have a proper focusing system it's probably not going to be lighter than a laptop, so what's the point. What I'd like to see is someone (FIC?) making a computer *like* the Neo that's a real laptop replacement. 1Ghz ARM, DVI out, 640x480 screen just like what we have in the Neo, runs slow when it's on batteries, fast when it's plugged in, a couple gigabytes of flash, an external hard drive for when you're near power, and Bob's your uncle. Frankly, the screen size is becoming a problem for most desktop apps. I have a computer hooked up to a TV in my livingroom which is running at 640x480 and that's is really annoying at times. Enough to make me walk up the stairs to a real PC. A lot of desktop apllications simply assume (rightly so) you have at least 800x600 available. You must adapt the userinterface of most programs to this resolution to be able to use it sensibly. You can pack a monitor in your luggage when you travel, and have a nice setup wherever you land. It would fit in your pocket when you're flying, but be powerful enough to actually use when you arrive. It could be a bit bigger than the Neo, and if it had a GSM modem and GPS in it, it'd double as a phone. Neo's big brother, you might say. Or you they could add display connectors to a next version of the neo. And sell a laptop sized tft screen as an accessoire. The next neo is likely to be faster anyway. I could see the use of that, it would make me think twice about buying a laptop. (OTOH, when the next neo has a heigher resolution display the lens thing might work well enough after all) AVee -- I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing... -- Thomas Jefferson ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Harald LaF0rge Welte: Leaving OpenMoko...
On Friday 16 November 2007 14:20, Javi Roman wrote: On Nov 16, 2007 12:52 PM, Bartlomiej Zdanowski [Zdanek] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sad news. It is bad news for OM Community but personally I understand move like this. Best regards for Harald. http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/11/16/#20071116-leaving_openmoko Best regards. ...internal friction weird news, ..., hmmm, what's going on in OpenMoko/FIC? How about everything which goes on in every company which grows fast and is under a lot of pressure to release a product? Everybody who has been there knows it's stressfull, hectic and yes it is really demotivating, largely because you keep spending time on stuff you don't want to do and as a result it is really hard to get the stuff you want to do done. All of this is doubled when you have a parent company, doubled again when there is a lot of publicity around it and doubled once more when you are one of the more well known members of the team. Coping with that for 18 months is an achievement of its own kind, I can't blame anybody for not keeping it up endlessly. Harold, thanks for everything you did to make an really open phone a reality. AVee -- It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. -- Douglas Adams ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 17:14, Mike Hodson wrote: On Nov 9, 2007 7:34 AM, Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With a device like the Neo the biggest issue with automated I'm here messages is the risk of the battery running flat 7 the thief being unable to acquire a suitable charger. Stroller. The way I see it, this isn't an issue if you have to ping the phone for it to respond. Here is my example scenario: I find out that my phone is lost. I text it with a magic gps keyword/phrase and it responds with its position. Which will only work when the thief is friendly enough to turn the phone on with the same sim-card installed, otherwise, what number would you text to? I'm guessing most GSM thiefs are smart enough to remove the SIM first. This does lead to another intresting angle, you could make the phone send it's location when the SIM card is changed. I doubt you will drain the battery very fast when you only send a location every 10 minutes or so. That should not make a huge difference on battery consumption, but be enough to retrieve it. AVee -- You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is Google developing a phone after all?
On Friday 09 November 2007 16:07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) I think Google IS developing their own phone after all 2) I think that phone will be based on the Qualcomm MSM7K 3) I think Android will be using Kastor as a rendering engine 4) If so, Android will look a lot like the Kastor demos on tat's website. (e.g. http://www.tat.se/images/demo/kastor_platform_01.mp4) It's probably a reference platform and one for developers. A bare minimum specification. It can't be the bare minimum as they've already said the minimum is an ARM9 and that Qualcomm is an ARM11. Plus, why port to a new platform when there are plenty of development kits for ARM9 (and event ARM11 these days) which support Linux out of the box. They could have used a Gumstix. They didn't, they ported Linux to a completely new family of SoC - no simple task. Just ask the OpenMoko Kernel developers! :-) But did anybody say it was google's idea to use this SoC first? Qualcomm is part of this consortium, and I guess they are only there because they hope it allows them to sell more chips. I can imagine Qualcomm presuring Google to implement on their latest-greatest chip first. If this platform runs on a dozen SoCs from a dozen manufacturers from the beginning there little reason left for Qualcomm to join, but now they may become the first manufacturer with a 'Android capable' SoC. I doubt google will release a phone of their own, but it is indeed higly likely that the first Android phone will be based on the Qualcomm MSM7K. That's what consortiums are about, doing each other those kind of favors. AVee -- It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. -- Douglas Adams ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 03:36, Jon wrote: I'd suggest everyone find their country on GSM World: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml and check their providers. Unfortunately some of the maps don't differentiate between 850 and 1900 (for example Rogers Wireless in Canada). The other two Canadian carriers listed, and the Mexican seem to be 1900 only. So it looks like the US just wants to be different, as usual. Afaik the first GSM phones all used 900Mhz. Some time later the 1800 and 1900 frequencies where added. The 850 frequency was introduced far later, I guess that's because the 900 band is used for something else in the US, at least, I hope that's the reason. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Friday 09 November 2007 21:24, Ian Darwin wrote: Now this is a great idea. Have it automatically go into stolen mode if the sim changes. I honestly didn't think about that one. But this obviously can't become part of the base system; it's a bad idea for many people. I (and many others I know) legitimately switch SIMs several times a year (when travelling to Europe), and don't need to be worried about false alarms. Well, it should provide some way of switching sim-cards anyway and even I wouldn't want to see it enabled by default. But when that is covered, I don't know why it couldn't be a part of the base system. It this kind of stuff which sets OpenMoko apart from an 'normal' smartphone. But I do agree there it should be handled properly, otherwise it will become useless in practice. AVee -- Do not believe in miracles -- rely on them. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: i'm going to lose my neo....
On Thursday 08 November 2007 23:45, andy selby wrote: what i would like is a (v. small) device that i can carry in my wallet, or somewhere, that sounds a reminder (on the phone, or external device) when it moves out of range. How about hacking a bluetooth dongle to sound an alarm when the thing is out of range of its paired device (the neo), but you may forget that aswell You could turn that around i guess, program the neo to make a lot of noise when it looses the paired device. I guess you stand a good chance of still being within hearing distance. Another option would be to buy one of these personal GSM jammers and program the Neo to make a noise when it finds a network. But that approach might have some disadvantages ;-) AVee -- Everyone is entitled to my opinion. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
On Wednesday 07 November 2007 21:39, Tommi Virtanen wrote: The only reason USA picked non-standard frequencies was because they had already licensed the 900 and 1800 MHz bands to something else. Just totaly useless curiousity, but does anyone know what these bands are used for in the US? -- Endless Loop, n.: see Loop, Endless. Loop, Endless, n.: see Endless Loop. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Gphone and 850, perspectives
On Thursday 08 November 2007 17:14, Ted Lemon wrote: On Thu, 2007-11-08 at 03:44 +0800, Michael Shiloh wrote: Even if you have a build option for 850 vs. 900, that's not a good solution - I want a phone that works everywhere, not a phone that works everywhere close to me. I think it whould help an awfull lot, it would allow you to switch firmware before leaving to an 850 or 900 area. In a lot af cases that will involve a air travel and a somewhat longer stay in the 'other frequency' area. If it could be just a build option I also can imagine a bit of software which makes the switch trivial. However, the issue appears to involve hardware as well, so I don't have high hopes for that. But maybe thet manage to get a jumper on the board or something... AVee -- AMAZING BUT TRUE ... If all the salmon caught in Canada in one year were laid end to end across the Sahara Desert, the smell would be absolutely awful. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 03:36, Jon wrote: I'd suggest everyone find their country on GSM World: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml and check their providers. Unfortunately some of the maps don't differentiate between 850 and 1900 (for example Rogers Wireless in Canada). The other two Canadian carriers listed, and the Mexican seem to be 1900 only. So it looks like the US just wants to be different, as usual. Afaik the first GSM phones all used 900Mhz. Some time later the 1800 and 1900 frequencies where added. The 850 frequency was introduced far later, I guess that's because the 900 band is used for something else in the US, at least, I hope that's the reason. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 17:06, hank williams wrote: Yeah, I am pretty amazed at this one. Its really hard to imagine a company building a phone that didnt think through what frequencies were needed. Frankly, i'm not that suprised, 850 really is a US thing. You are missing out on lot of phones because of the different frequency and the amount of control the operators have over phones. Really, the US is just starting to catch up with the rest of the world. Tri-band phones are fairly common over here (although recently most new phone have been quad-band), and frankly, they can be used throughout the world, except the US. Thats good enough for biggest part of all GSM users. Your the minority on the one. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 04:13, Michael Shiloh wrote: I would guess that if we make such a variant, we would offer both, but I don't know for sure. Please realize that I'm just asking the question in anticipation that the information might be useful at some point. I'm not suggesting that we have any plans yet to do so. Depending on the issues involved a phone with a jumper and/or firmware/software switch between 850 an 900 could be a solution as well. I doubt there are much places where you can switch from 850 to 900 without having to cross an ocean first. I'd be inconvenient, but better that a phone with just 850 or 900 (and it might be preferable when producing it, because the phones will be identical again). AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Community update: The 850 MHz issue
On Tuesday 06 November 2007 17:34, hank williams wrote: On 11/6/07, Jeffrey Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its really hard to imagine a company building a phone that didnt think through what frequencies were needed. More interestingly, that it took a trip from Michael to Taiwan to get anyone to focus on it. If this substantially sets back the development effort, it really is a major blow to the project. Isn't it possible that the FIC's main userbase, in Asia, doesn't have this band to worry about? I live in the US but it seems like all of these comments are focused on *our* coverage, like we're the center of the world... It really is hard to imagine them thinking that they were designing a phone for just outside the US. If that was their thinking, it certainly should have been clarified. Certainly a plurality of the first units sold, and perhaps a majority, have been sold in the US. Honestly, its hard to imagine an Open Source phone gaining much traction without US support. Common, take a look outside of your own borders. It's hard to inmagine an Open Source phone gaining any traction at all in the US, land of software patents, closed standards and telco control. There are quit a few OSS projects doing just fine despite being illegal in the US, an Open Source phone will do just fine without US support. And Nokia is not a US company, nor is Sony-Ericsson, both became major players in this market before there even was any form of GSM coverage in the US. We're not, nor do we have nearly the largest possible sales base. It is not true to say that we dont *nearly* have the largest base. whatever the numbers are, particularly for smart phones, I would be shocked to hear the US was anything but one of the top markets. Only japan could compete as a potentially larger market in asia. Certainly they are not going to be selling tons of these in China. Yeah, because it's not like there are loads of smart phones being sold in Europe... It's Asia first, then Europe and the the America's, largely because the US had an incompatible system of their own for years. And you may be suprised about china too, 1% of the chinese buying a phone is as just as good as 4% of the US buying your phone. And it's far easier to gain marketshare in China then in the hugely locked-up US market. I feel your pain though, it would really suck to miss out on the neo because off dull things like frequency issues, and I really hope this will be resolved in some way. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: google open phone platform
On Monday 05 November 2007 21:05, Dean Collins wrote: Yep pretty much. There is a time and a window for technology releases like this and FIC's time has come and gone. I hate to put it bluntly but; It's not hard to think about things like an opensource mobile OS's. It's not even that hard to convince someone to invest in it. It is hard to get out Beta and then retail 1.0 but the really hard part is being able to invest time and time again in new ideas to be on the breaking edge of technology and innovation. It was FIC's window 6-8 months ago but now when the industry stalwarts are crashing at your door it's time to close up shop, sit on the beach and think of the next coolest thing. It's not gone yet. However it is not uncommon for big companies to try and make a lot off fuss about a non yet existing product, just to create enough anticipation to keep people from moving elswhere. As Microsoft when WinFS will be finished, it was supposed to be in XP, it's still not there in Vista. But all the time it was a reason not to switch to an OS with a better filesystem, because WinFS was going to deliver that 'Really Soon Now(TM)'. The same thing is happening here, they said handsets will be available in the second half of 2008. That's another 6 months at the very least. Normally 'the second half of the year' means, we really hope to get it done this year, but we might not be able to make it. The reason they announce so early is simply to create enough buzz so people will postpone buying a new phone until they are done. If FIC manages to deliver before the first google phone they are still in the game. And if the software Google is planning really is as open as they claim it is the Neo might even become the first phone that will run this stuff. They said, minimum reqs is about a 200MHz ARM9 so that shouldn't be the problem. If that works out Google may just have jumpstarted the launch of the Neo, time will tell. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community@lists.openmoko.org
On Wednesday 24 October 2007 01:25, Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Mark wrote: Richard Reichenbacher richard5 at email.arizona.edu Tue Oct 23 21:03:31 CEST 2007 Or perhaps you could continue searching the wiki for updated information. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 Scroll down to estimated time line. Oh, yeah, there's a single place in the entire wiki that gives updated information. It's so reasonable to expect everybody to dig through the entire site to find it, amid the multitude of places that still say OCTOBER... All I'm asking for is the occasional update on the announce list (what is that list for, anyway, if it's not for exactly this kind of thing?). There hasn't been a post to that list for a month, and that was only a request for help on the Web-shop. The last real post to that list was on August 20, more than two months ago. Do you really think that's reasonable If this is the kind of attitude and customer service we can expect after we buy the thing, I'm not so sure I'm interested anymore... Did you buy a GTA02? No? Well, in that case, your not a customer, so quit bitching about 'customer service'. You are getting a peek into the development proccess at FIC, that not something you usually get with other companies and you surely can't claim some sort of right to be informed about this. If you can't handle it, unsubscribe from the community list and wait for the announcement you telling you the thing is available, *like you would with any other product*. Or be happy with whatever information you may get, realizing it's all extra. AVee -- An apple every eight hours will keep three doctors away. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wired Test article on the lazy phone industry mentions OpenMoko
On Tuesday 23 October 2007 16:55, Federico Lorenzi wrote: On 10/23/07, Justyn Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't suppose you would mind pasting what it said? Some people on slow internet connections can't exactly download a 23mb pdf. The article is also available here: http://www.wired.com/gadgets/gadgetreviews/magazine/test2007/st_essay AVee -- Ginsburg's Law: At the precise moment you take off your shoe in a shoe store, your big toe will pop out of your sock to see what's going on. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community@lists.openmoko.org
On Wednesday 24 October 2007 01:25, Richard Reichenbacher wrote: Mark wrote: Richard Reichenbacher richard5 at email.arizona.edu Tue Oct 23 21:03:31 CEST 2007 Or perhaps you could continue searching the wiki for updated information. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02 Scroll down to estimated time line. Oh, yeah, there's a single place in the entire wiki that gives updated information. It's so reasonable to expect everybody to dig through the entire site to find it, amid the multitude of places that still say OCTOBER... All I'm asking for is the occasional update on the announce list (what is that list for, anyway, if it's not for exactly this kind of thing?). There hasn't been a post to that list for a month, and that was only a request for help on the Web-shop. The last real post to that list was on August 20, more than two months ago. Do you really think that's reasonable If this is the kind of attitude and customer service we can expect after we buy the thing, I'm not so sure I'm interested anymore... Did you buy a GTA02? No? Well, in that case, your not a customer, so quit bitching about 'customer service', because thats something only customers get. You are getting a peek into the development proccess at FIC, that not something you usually get with other companies and you surely can't claim some sort of right to be informed about this. If you can't handle it, unsubscribe from the community list and wait for the announcement telling you the thing is available, *like you would with any other product*. Or be happy with whatever information you may get, realizing it's all extra. AVee -- An apple every eight hours will keep three doctors away. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: community@lists.openmoko.org
On Wednesday 24 October 2007 14:07, Andreas Utterberg wrote: Nice approach!?. Not!, why flame everyone that have a oppinion? Thats what community work is all about. Lets face it, the month is wrong and the information is hard to find for new customers, users and developers. Also they will not have a clue what GTA02 is from the start.. Stop flaming, and start helping and fix things instead. So ranting against one of they few companies that actually let you in on their development process is OK, but I am flamimg? Or *demanding* more effort from a company that is going out of it's ways to provide you a fully open phone, is that what community work is about? FIC is a commercial company doing far more than then they have to (Did Apple keep you posted about progess of the iPhone development?), you do realize they could have choosen not to publish any information at all? If these kind of demands are what they get in return for providing information I really can't blame them when thats what they do next time. But I don't want that to happen, so please, accept what you are getting here and be happy with it. And whining about customer service is something only customers are allowed to do, what FIC is doing here is providing community service and goes beyond any obligation they have toward us. I really annoys me when people claim a right to get something *for free*. It doesn't work that way, you can ask, but you just can't make demands. AVee -- meeting, n.: An assembly of people coming together to decide what person or department not represented in the room must solve a problem. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Forum? (Was Re: Neo Sound and USB Questions)
On Tuesday 21 August 2007 15:06, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: Am 21.08.2007 um 12:46 schrieb Harald Welte: I am from the community ;) And not in my 10+ years of FOSS community development have I seen any project that had problems with properly using mailinglists. By deciding not to have a forum, you will loose some participants. And those who remain will have no problems. So, this argument is not a proof... Show me a single succesfull opensource project which uses *both* mailing lists and a forum *for development*. Just one. So far the lack of proof is on your side of the argument. Well, I don't know how old you are but I did send my first e-mails approx. 1984 and wrote my first UNIX programs at that time. Nevertheless I would prefer a forum. I was 5 years old in 1984, my first email account was a webmail account. I never used the internet before grahical browsers existed. Nevertheless I whould prefer a mailing list. So what? If personal perference has to be the norm you will get all kind of things, but never a community. I'd use the forum if that was where the action was. But i'd *never* try to split up an active development community over the choice of communication medium. That might be an unwise decision - but you are the decision taker :-) Thats a very wise decision. There is *no* reason at all to split the developers into two groups, forum users and mail users. That is a very stupid idea. Regardless of wich is supposedly better you should never split a community over several different communication mediums, and you should not try to radically change the medium either. For that reason alone Harald is right to oppose against forums (for developer usage, that is). AVee (I've said it, I won't be dragged into discussions about this) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Tuesday 25 September 2007 10:32, Dani Anon wrote: On 9/25/07, Lorn Potter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carlo E. Prelz wrote: Quoting Dani Anon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): - But QT is not free (as in beer) for commercial usage This is not the only reason why Qtopia is sub-optimal. It's not a reason at all. Neo is a free phone! If I wanted commercial applications, I could easily use any other phone out there. The reason why we are all here, is because the Neo is 'free software'. Would the Neo interest you as much if it wasn't as 'free'? Tell that to all the people using Wine under Linux. I'll use commercial app if they are worth the money. But i really don't see how someone developing a non-free (both in speech as in beer) should get their toolkit for free. When you expect people to pay for *your* software you should not be suprised when you have to pay for a toolkit yourself. The SDK appears to cost 146 euro, that should be an affordable investment for any commercial developer. I thing gp is right, c might be better than c++ for small devices and certainly you need to code in c++ to take advantage of qtopia components. Why whould plain C be better, what matters in the and is the binary that is spit out by the compiler. I don't see why a C++ compiler should produce a binary that is somehow less suitable for small devices. Theoretically two programs written it two totally different languages could still compile to identical binaries providing identical functionality. If your C program is indeed more suitable for small devices it just means your C++ compiler needs to be improved. You do realize that C++ was explicitly designed with embedded software in mind? Also, Qtopia, by having no X server running in the background, makes it much more difficult for the average developer to bring his/her own window to the screen of the phone. not really. qt-rantIn fact, coding with Qt is much faster than gtk. Ask people that have done both./qt-rant agree, anybody that has tried both knows it's like night and day, qt is miles ahead in ease of development. And if I where developing a pure basic phone, I'd drop the X server right away. But for a device like the Neo 1973 i'm not that sure. There are quit some existing applications I'd like to run on that thing and most of them are X applications. Losing X is good thing,not being able to use all that code out there is not. I'm not totaly convinced of either approach yet, I guess both have their place. AVee -- When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Qtopia coming for Neo1973
On Tuesday 25 September 2007 17:51, Dani Anon wrote: On 9/25/07, AVee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll use commercial app if they are worth the money. But i really don't see how someone developing a non-free (both in speech as in beer) should get their toolkit for free. When you expect people to pay for *your* software you should not be suprised when you have to pay for a toolkit yourself. The SDK appears to cost 146 euro, that should be an affordable investment for any commercial developer. Yep, but there's this undeniable fact that having 0 entry cost invites a whole new class of developers that you wouldn't have otherwise. I think we could perfectly choose QTopia and just handicap commercial developers, either of the options is better than having two options. I'm a profesional software developer, but I have never done any serious embedded development. I've seen a whole bunch of language, as such I will just use what comes along. Learning another yet another language or toolkit doesn't scare me, I do that all the time. However, I'll always pick the most clean, simple and well documented toolkit. If I'm to write software *for fun*, it better be fun. If the toolkit is too hard to use, badly designed, badly documented or simply taking too much time to learn I'll go and do someting else. There are dozens of projects out there and I've got enough ideas for about 5 livetimes of programming. As a developer, I'd pick Qtopia anytime. As a user, I'd like to see the NEO1973 as the ultimate GPS handheld, the ultimate smartphone and the ultimate PDA. To that end it simply *must* run a lot of software with little or no effort. You can talk for hours about 'inefficient', 'free', 'overhead' and whatever, but I just want view the PDF file in my email, use a *proper* webbrowser and run VNC. Most Linux applications use X, so if thats what it takes, make the thing run X apps. As a user, I definately want X. And if I were porting existing applications, I'd want X as well. So I think it is a good thing to have two options, isn't that what Open Source is about, the freedom to use what suits you best? AVee -- Beware of low-flying butterflies. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Help Request for our Webshop
On Sunday 23 September 2007 18:47, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 9/23/07 Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: [snip] And your requirements may really be complex enough that the pre-built OSS stack isn't viable. In that case, I would take a closer look at the requirements and see if you can drop any for release 1. Build when all else fails (unless it is your core competency, like say a linux phone distribution :P ) I 100% agree on that... The standard Open Source Web Shop is OSCommerce (http://www.oscommerce.com/). No offense at all to those guys, but this didn't meet our needs. We've already spend over two months trying to rework that and figured that writing something from scratch would be easier in the long run. I've done work on OSCommerce once, and I've got just one advice for anybody having to work on that code. Run and hide! We really have an _extremely_ complex global logistics model that needs to be implemented. FIC has distribution hubs all around the world. They just do business to business transactions now. So we need to develop something that can ship direct to our customers (and retailers and even factories) from those hubs. Is it a Webshop you are looking for or do you actually need an ERP/Supply Chain solution? I've never really looked into these (it's on my very long list of 'things to check out') , but there is Compiere, Adempiere, Tiny ERP, Apache OFBiz, OpenMFG... I honestly don't know if any of these are mature and robust enough to support your logistics, but i might be easier to start from there and add a webshop (if it isn't there allready). Also, how are the current b2b transactions handled, its not alway impossible to insert consumer orders into b2b systems and it might just be the way to get this working with minimal impact. AVee -- Write a paper promising salvation, make it a 'structured' something or a 'virtual' something, or 'abstract', 'distributed' or 'higher-order' or 'applicative' and you can almost be certain of having started a new cult. -- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (1979) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: WiFi vs. speaker
On Friday 24 August 2007 15:18, Tim Shannon wrote: I don't know about you guys, but personally I'd rather have the electromagnetic radiation traveling under my chin, then through my brain, but maybe brain cancer doesn't scare you as much. Braincancer may scare me, high frequency radio waves do not. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Buying Openmoko GTA02 from Europe
On Thursday 23 August 2007 13:27, Andy Loughran wrote: Hi Guys, My gut feeling was that Vodafone would probably be one of the last providers to support/distribute a linux-based 'open' phone given their reputation fro crippling devices with their own version of the software, none the less I also felt that the attempt was worth a shot - and hopefully he will see the potential of the device. I'm not sure about that, the NEO may provide them with way more options to get the phone just the way they want it than any other phone on the market. The fact that a handfull of user will be installing there own unbranded software on it may not concern them a that much, most user will simply stay with what they get (unless its just too anoying off course). AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: FM Radio
On Thursday 23 August 2007 14:14, Ian Stirling wrote: Giles Jones wrote: On 22 Aug 2007, at 22:37, D. Vicario wrote: To listen for streaming radio I MUST pay for the download, and the price of data isn't cheap... so, the FM module is the only way, for me, to listen radio. And I see very much use of it. FM is only worth doing if you can also use the FM circuitry for TMC to get realtime traffic information. Umm. No. It's a nice add-on. For many users, it's a complete side-show. I want to use it to listen to the news, listen live to music stations that I like, and may have competitions, or listen to new reasonable quality music, when I have no opportunity to download stuff to my phone. I have a RDS radio in my car. I've never used it, as I don't live where traffic jams are common. In a phone, yes. But in a car navigation device, it is a valuable extra source of information. Navigation software that is able to take trafic jams into account when calculating it's route provides serious added value for a lot of people. So in a NEO with GPS i think it is usefull, especially for the people who want a phone with GPS. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: mailing list management
On Wednesday 22 August 2007 21:19, Andre Schmidt wrote: On Tue, 2007-08-21 at 19:31 +0800, Harald Welte wrote: I'm not opposed to changing the reply-to for community, if you want that. In fact, I have now changed it. For all other lists I'm a bit less inclined to do it, but would be willing to change if there were many supporters of such a change. Hello, how do i now answer only to the poster ? (only using one button/shortcut press) as before i could use: ctrl+l = reply to list ctrl+r = reply to poster and now both reply to the list... KMail seems to understand this properly, this email provides me several options: R: Reply (goes to list) A: Reply to All (goes to list and to you) Shift-A: Reply to author (goes to you) L: Reply to list (goes to the list again) Using L and Shift-A on a proper mailing list message will give you the same result in KMail regardless of the configuration of the mailinglist... AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Message duplicates (was: Changes between GTA1 and GTA2?)
On Friday 17 August 2007 07:06, Harald Welte wrote: And 'some mail admin' is unfortunately just me. Ever considered using one of the OSS hosting sites such as Sourceforge or one of the many others? That could offload quit some admin issues, even when it's only used for mailinglists and bugtracking... There is a list on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_software_hosting_facilities AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: What's the real scope of hardware openness?
On Tuesday 07 August 2007 13:07, Luca Dionisi wrote: On 8/7/07, Mikko J Rauhala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And also, wrt. mesh networking, you still don't really want to allow your phone, while it's mobile, to work as a bridge in the mesh; otherwise the battery would be dead in no time. But sure, advocate lots of open access points and perhaps putting the phone in mesh mode if it's hooked up to external power. And still there will be severe scalability issues, but what the hey, it's possible for _some_ N, right? :] Yep. Anyway I would insist in finding a solution that doesn't rely heavily in access points. It would be a showstopper. IMHO we could reach the needed adoption level only if the mobile phone (that everyone nowadays carries with him) is the only needed spot. If the mesh protocol is smart, I think the consumption problem could be worked out. Of course thing can always be optimised, but i doubt that will be sufficient. Your idea boils down to replacing GSM towers with a handfull of NEOs. That whould roughly mean that all the power consumed a GSM tower now needs to be provided by the batteries of these NEOs. Thats not something trivial. And there will be added complexity because the system will have to cope with all the NEOs moving around, constantly changing routes from A to B etc. It may not be impossible, but it's not going to be easy. Apart from that, systems like this are like public roads. With just a few users there is no problem at all, but when things get crowded you will need some rules or it will become a useless mess. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Google Phone is coming...
On Tuesday 07 August 2007 16:15, Jeremy G wrote: On 8/4/07, Jeremy G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/4/07, Harrison Metzger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why doesn't Google join Openmoko/Neo? Google has too many closed-source applications to fit with the completely open nature of OpenMoko, and likely, they intend to use their phone as an avenue to promote their applications, closed and open alike. Looks like I might end up eating my words: There has been a new batch of rumors swirling about Google producing a gPhone mobile telephone after a Reuters reporter stated High Tech Computer Corp would be designing the Linux phone for Google. A friendly penguin has told us at Phoronix that Google is looking to team up with OpenMoko for their gPhone. Google will not be using the FIC Neo1973 GTA01, but they will be bringing the open-source OpenMoko platform to their own hardware, which looks to be manufactured through HTC, and making a few changes along the way. Source: http://www.phoronix.com/?page=news_itempx=NTk1Mw Google has never had any problem with placing their own closed stuff on top of open-source code. They are heavy open-source users, it's just to bad they are mostly users and never completely open. They do understand the power of 'default', paying big bucks to Mozilla and Opera for a search box which can be removed with two clicks. The same thing will apply to a phone, most people will never change anything in the software, no matter how open (or not) it is. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Camera on GTA02
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 01:21, Giles Jones wrote: On 24 Jul 2007, at 00:09, Nkoli wrote: Nokia are a brand, along with Samsung and Sony Ericsson they own the market. It's unrealistic to think this phone can get huge market share. Simply because you won't have the major operators selling them on contract. Until operators are pushing them and people know what the brand means (ie, reputation) it's going to be a phone for people in the know. I'm not sure about the rest of europe, but in the Netherlands it's fairly normal to go to a shop and purchase whatever phone you want together with whatever contract you want. The phone shop will simply get a provision for each contract sold and use this to discount the phones they sell. This results in lists like this: http://www.gsmweb.nl/tmobile/index_toestel.htm You really don't need anything from an operator to get on that list, when there is demand for a phone it will can be sold both with and without contracts. Overhere FIC needs to get these resellers on board, not the operators. AVee ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
