Re: Clarification Rant
Ryan Prior writes: >Right, the only tough part is deciding whether to buy GTA01 hardware when I >know that WiFi is coming, and I can still do development without the >hardware. It would be really nice to have a phone, but I want to buy the one >that I'd want to use the most. If I had plenty of money, or if I worked for >a mobile development company or something, it would be no problem. Exactly! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Just try eBay when the time comes. Even without wifi, I would think a smartphone with bluetooth, high-res touchscreen, etc going for $150 - $200. -Steven On 6/27/07, Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 6/6/07, Gabriel Ambuehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wednesday 06 June 2007 01:12:18 Ryan Prior wrote: > > I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 > is the > > phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with > WiFi > > be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? > > How about getting the cheapest phone you can find? Around here there are > 15EUR > phones without contract (but sim locked to one carrier)... That's my plan for now - I need a reliable phone to use alongside my GTA01 (if I buy one - it's hard to justify buying a GTA01 when the GTA02 will have WiFi, something I will use a lot.) If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Right, the only tough part is deciding whether to buy GTA01 hardware when I know that WiFi is coming, and I can still do development without the hardware. It would be really nice to have a phone, but I want to buy the one that I'd want to use the most. If I had plenty of money, or if I worked for a mobile development company or something, it would be no problem. On 6/27/07, Joe Pfeiffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ryan Prior writes: > If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the > GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the > GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. I wouldn't be making decisions at that point -- it'd be an absolute no-brainer. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Krishnamurti ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Ryan Prior writes: > If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the > GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the > GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. I wouldn't be making decisions at that point -- it'd be an absolute no-brainer. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. agreed, but really, what would they do with it? I could see /maybe/ a slight discount... but 150+ is a lot as I am not a developer, I think I am best off waiting until the October release. Wifi is too useful to pass up! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
On 6/6/07, Gabriel Ambuehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Wednesday 06 June 2007 01:12:18 Ryan Prior wrote: > I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the > phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi > be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? How about getting the cheapest phone you can find? Around here there are 15EUR phones without contract (but sim locked to one carrier)... That's my plan for now - I need a reliable phone to use alongside my GTA01 (if I buy one - it's hard to justify buying a GTA01 when the GTA02 will have WiFi, something I will use a lot.) If FIC/OpenMoko could run some sort of deal where I could buy the GTA01 for $300 and send it back in for a $150 or $200 upgrade when the GTA02 comes out, I would buy into that. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
On Wednesday 06 June 2007 01:12:18 Ryan Prior wrote: > I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the > phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi > be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? How about getting the cheapest phone you can find? Around here there are 15EUR phones without contract (but sim locked to one carrier)... pgper5OJTwjNv.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
On 6/8/07, Jonathon Suggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I understand being careful with what you say, but even something like "We've built X devices with a defect ratio of Y. We want that ration to be Z before we push the production line full steam ahead" would be promising. That is unless X=0 Y=100 and Z is "anything greater than zero", THEN we'd be a little disappointed. I also agree. But right now I do not believe we will get the phone before September/October (just a feeling). If it was a little problem, I believe they would keep us informed. I don't know why they don't inform us but I also don't know what the problem is. Anyway... I am really excited and I check several times each day (I have done that since January). I hope it will become available soon. If the problem is software related, I personally think they should not hold the device back. There is many great developers out here that is ready to hack the device. I don't want to sound negative I am just really excited. I think Sean and the rest of the team is working really hard now to find a solution to whatever the problem might be. They are under a lot of pressure and they don't need a lot of demotivating complains. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
I understand being careful with what you say, but even something like "We've built X devices with a defect ratio of Y. We want that ration to be Z before we push the production line full steam ahead" would be promising. That is unless X=0 Y=100 and Z is "anything greater than zero", THEN we'd be a little disappointed. Just a quick blurb here and there go a long way, but there hasn't even been that. Also there is all of this talk about GTA-02 and how great and awesome it is going to be...but we don't even have GTA-01 out and available??? All I'm saying is that unless there is nothing positive to say, then something is better than nothing (and we used to get something a while back). So again, I apologize for negativity, but I'm finding it really hard to "keep the faith" and...keep waiting. Mikko Rauhala wrote: pe, 2007-06-08 kello 12:05 -0400, Alan Ide kirjoitti: In the first few months of development there was a great deal of communication, but it seems to have dwindled which makes me nervous to be honest. I'm sure the team is also quite honestly nervous to start talking expected shipping dates again after many "false alarms". ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
I'm sure the team is also quite honestly nervous to start talking expected shipping dates again after many "false alarms". Yeah, but if they would be totally open about the causes for delays, I'm sure the community will understand. Things are complicated, and unexpected happens. I dont care if there's false alarms, as long as they keep everyone posted. The worst is not to have any information. Carl ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
pe, 2007-06-08 kello 12:05 -0400, Alan Ide kirjoitti: > In the first few months of development there was a great deal of > communication, but it seems to have dwindled which makes me nervous to > be honest. I'm sure the team is also quite honestly nervous to start talking expected shipping dates again after many "false alarms". -- Mikko Rauhala - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.iki.fi/mjr/> Transhumanist - WTA member - http://www.transhumanism.org/> Singularitarian - SIAI supporter - http://www.singinst.org/> ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Agreed. I feel exactly the same way. I have said it before and I will say it again, the best part of being a "COMMunity" is COMMunication. In the first few months of development there was a great deal of communication, but it seems to have dwindled which makes me nervous to be honest. On 6/8/07, Jonathon Suggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well since this was supposed to be available back in March, there was no immediate need. Now the pressure (for me) is starting to build. So it is more of a question of I've been waiting for ~3 months now and there is still no idea of when it is going to actually become available. Yes, I could go out and buy a cheap phone today. But then the Neo could be out tomorrow and I would have wasted my money. But its not even a money issue for me. Its a lack of communication issue. The original date was March. Sean clearly explained why they had to push back the date, but only said that new devices would be out "soon." Then there was another production run and we all thought that THAT was going to be when they were available...but there were issues and we got bumped back to "soon" again. LCD shortages, bad production runs, whats next? Are they are going to scrap the GTA-01's in favor of ramping up production lines for the GTA-02 (since that will possibly be the mass-market hardware) but at a few months delay? So while I'm complaining, I'm also appreciative of the information that has been passed down to us. However, that doesn't erase the fact that they set a date and missed it only to be followed up with a "soon" response. It would be different if they had just said that it would be available in 2007, but to set an exact date then not come through? Then not even give a follow up date...it just seems a little "off" to me. So I know that I'm sounding really down on Sean and the bunch and that isn't my sentiment. I'm excited about what the platform has the potential to do. But its just deflating to see it "failing" at such an early point in the development cycle...I guess my optimism can only last so long. I guess what I'm getting at is if they can't get something out the door now (when it is arguably the most important time for the platform) then what is the future going to be like? I'm going to have to see some MAJOR progress to get my hopes back up to where they were when I first heard about and started following the project. Luit van Drongelen wrote: > Well, if you can't live without a mobile phone until the Neo with WiFi > comes available, why not buy a temporary 25 buck phone? That's what > I'm doing now... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Well since this was supposed to be available back in March, there was no immediate need. Now the pressure (for me) is starting to build. So it is more of a question of I've been waiting for ~3 months now and there is still no idea of when it is going to actually become available. Yes, I could go out and buy a cheap phone today. But then the Neo could be out tomorrow and I would have wasted my money. But its not even a money issue for me. Its a lack of communication issue. The original date was March. Sean clearly explained why they had to push back the date, but only said that new devices would be out "soon." Then there was another production run and we all thought that THAT was going to be when they were available...but there were issues and we got bumped back to "soon" again. LCD shortages, bad production runs, whats next? Are they are going to scrap the GTA-01's in favor of ramping up production lines for the GTA-02 (since that will possibly be the mass-market hardware) but at a few months delay? So while I'm complaining, I'm also appreciative of the information that has been passed down to us. However, that doesn't erase the fact that they set a date and missed it only to be followed up with a "soon" response. It would be different if they had just said that it would be available in 2007, but to set an exact date then not come through? Then not even give a follow up date...it just seems a little "off" to me. So I know that I'm sounding really down on Sean and the bunch and that isn't my sentiment. I'm excited about what the platform has the potential to do. But its just deflating to see it "failing" at such an early point in the development cycle...I guess my optimism can only last so long. I guess what I'm getting at is if they can't get something out the door now (when it is arguably the most important time for the platform) then what is the future going to be like? I'm going to have to see some MAJOR progress to get my hopes back up to where they were when I first heard about and started following the project. Luit van Drongelen wrote: Well, if you can't live without a mobile phone until the Neo with WiFi comes available, why not buy a temporary 25 buck phone? That's what I'm doing now... ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Well, if you can't live without a mobile phone until the Neo with WiFi comes available, why not buy a temporary 25 buck phone? That's what I'm doing now... Cheers, Luit PS: Sorry for the double one Ryan. The good old Reply-All problem :( On 6/6/07, Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? If the answer is no, I will be really disappointed, and it will probably be another two years before I will be able to economically justify a Neo1973. It isn't that I'm threatening anything... I love the concept of OpenMoko and plan to develop software for it, even if I can't get my hands on one. I wish the hardware team the best of luck, and I look forward to life in the trenches with the software team. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
On 06/06/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hold on chaps. > > Every phone I have bought since I started using them (circa 98 - late > starter, I know) has been heavily subsidised or more recently free. In > fact > in the UK it is hard to pick up a decent contract (plenty of minutes/texts > and free internet) without getting a free phone. I tried once and it was > more hassle then it was worth. You certainly wouldn't get a discount for > it! > So I always pick up the most expensive/useful handset at the time and now > have a collection. I'm so fed up with WM series that those ones either run > linux or collect dust. Why? Get subsidised phone - unlockable ones may have a premium. Ebay. Apply funds towards neo. Sorry, probably wasn't clear. I meant to imply that I *only* buy subsidised phones. I meant most expensive phone that still comes free when subsidised by reasonably expensive contract that I make full use of. The Neo will be an exception to this - untill it becomes subsidised (showing confidence) -Pete ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
> Hold on chaps. > > Every phone I have bought since I started using them (circa 98 - late > starter, I know) has been heavily subsidised or more recently free. In > fact > in the UK it is hard to pick up a decent contract (plenty of minutes/texts > and free internet) without getting a free phone. I tried once and it was > more hassle then it was worth. You certainly wouldn't get a discount for > it! > So I always pick up the most expensive/useful handset at the time and now > have a collection. I'm so fed up with WM series that those ones either run > linux or collect dust. Why? Get subsidised phone - unlockable ones may have a premium. Ebay. Apply funds towards neo. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
On 6/6/07, Peter A Trotter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hold on chaps. Every phone I have bought since I started using them (circa 98 - late starter, I know) has been heavily subsidised or more recently free. In fact in the UK it is hard to pick up a decent contract (plenty of minutes/texts and free internet) without getting a free phone. I tried once and it was more hassle then it was worth. You certainly wouldn't get a discount for it! So I always pick up the most expensive/useful handset at the time and now have a collection. I'm so fed up with WM series that those ones either run linux or collect dust. Get to the point! Well, if your phone economy is anything like the UK stop waiting - go get a new phone and a new contract ASAP. It will be free and you will be paying for the neo unsubsidised whichever way you work it. That is exactly what I did. However, I will also be buying P1 hardware and P2 hardware. I believe that phones can be better then WM and intend to help make sure that openmoko is a step in the right direction. Um, from the sounds of it, having a second phone isn't going to be too bad of an idea. Personally, I'm considering this kind of like the project hotrod that spends most of it's time with it's guts strewn around the garage: I'm keeping my current phone for when I'm "welding on the chassis" and the neo isn't usable as a phone at all. Scenarios I foresee: 1. I'm currently working on something low-level enough that I'm turning the NEO on and off constantly, or otherwise making it temporarily unavailable 2. Working later into the night/morning, then have to go to work... without the phone being operational In any case, I'd still want to be contactable, and I personally won't buy a land line any time in the foreseeable future. My plan is to have a cheap prepaid sim on hand for testing, and swap my main sim into the phone I have now. Not to mention the fact that the dev team has repeatedly stated that the phase 1 phone will be barely usable... I expect this to change quickly, but even if it was released tomorrow you might not want to have that be your only phone for a while. I'm not sure of your situation, but when my next subsidised phone time comes around (august) I'm going for the free phone... you never know when you'll need a backup (or that daily driver for when the [1932 ford|flat fender CJ|Porsche 928] is getting rebuilt... again) -- Jeff O|||O ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
Hold on chaps. Every phone I have bought since I started using them (circa 98 - late starter, I know) has been heavily subsidised or more recently free. In fact in the UK it is hard to pick up a decent contract (plenty of minutes/texts and free internet) without getting a free phone. I tried once and it was more hassle then it was worth. You certainly wouldn't get a discount for it! So I always pick up the most expensive/useful handset at the time and now have a collection. I'm so fed up with WM series that those ones either run linux or collect dust. Get to the point! Well, if your phone economy is anything like the UK stop waiting - go get a new phone and a new contract ASAP. It will be free and you will be paying for the neo unsubsidised whichever way you work it. That is exactly what I did. However, I will also be buying P1 hardware and P2 hardware. I believe that phones can be better then WM and intend to help make sure that openmoko is a step in the right direction. Ryan, with any luck you'll be able to get one on a subsidised contract within 2 years. Also, when I get P2 hardware I'd likely be happy to ship the P1 over to you ;) On 06/06/07, Ryan Prior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? If the answer is no, I will be really disappointed, and it will probably be another two years before I will be able to economically justify a Neo1973. It isn't that I'm threatening anything... I love the concept of OpenMoko and plan to develop software for it, even if I can't get my hands on one. I wish the hardware team the best of luck, and I look forward to life in the trenches with the software team. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Clarification Rant
I'm in the same situation. I need a phone, no question. The Neo 1973 is the phone I want, no question. The question is this: will the Neo1973 with WiFi be available by the time I cannot live without a phone for any longer? If the answer is no, I will be really disappointed, and it will probably be another two years before I will be able to economically justify a Neo1973. It isn't that I'm threatening anything... I love the concept of OpenMoko and plan to develop software for it, even if I can't get my hands on one. I wish the hardware team the best of luck, and I look forward to life in the trenches with the software team. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Clarification Rant
Again, please only respond to my "Clarification" email if you have something FACTUAL. This is my rant email, so if you are just anxious like me then respond to this. I've been following the project for quite some time now and was anxiously awaiting being able to purchase the phone in March (when it was originally scheduled to be available for developers), but that date came and passed and at the time I was ok with the setbacks. However, almost three months have passed and there is still no hardware available for me. Now to top it all off there has been talk of a hardware revision that will include some really good upgrades (that I would normally just wait for). However, my phone is on the skids and I am going to need to make a purchase soon. This is by no means a threat or whatever, but I'm seriously considering jumping ship on the project because I don't like waiting for something that I have no idea will ever come to fruition. There are plenty of phones that I could have now that I would be perfectly content with and every day that my current phone lets me down just makes it harder to...keep waiting. Before someone says "that's just the way it is with hardware projects" can continue playing the waiting game, but you may have to do it without me. I guess the point of this is to say that I am 100% behind OpenMoko, and I wish you the best but considering the circumstances I may have to either catch you in September (or later). I really need some details if I am going to be able to delay purchasing any longer. -Jonathon ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
