Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Okay, thanks for the clarification. I was just concerned about hearsay on the list. Thanks for the science. -Nick On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey Nick, > > I've not looked at the electronics inside the neo myself but the sound > is typical in the electronics world of a switchmode power supply under > grate strain. > > I was told by someone on the irc channel that OM folks recommend you > don't do it and > being an electronics engineer myself i recommend this too. The sound is not > something the phone should be emitting in normal operation. > > > Nick Guenther wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Hey, > >> > >> Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo > >> has USB power. > >> > >> You may not have heard it but the phone gets quite angry. As evident by > >> a quiet scream the phone emits as the components in its power system > >> begin to vibrate closer to magic smoke land. > >> > > > > Is this true? I haven't been worrying about the scream at all myself. > > how do you know the whine is from power components? > > > > -Nick > > > > > > ___ > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:47:40 +0100 Jay Vaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the > > neo has USB power. > > > i did this. i had to get a new neo: my first one got *fried* from > this. dunno what to do with the old one, frankly it bothers me > having it sit there doing nothing. anyone got any suggestions? [...] Yes, send it to me. I wish that you had made this offer before we went and bought one. Regards, Gora ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Jay Vaughan wrote: Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo has USB power. i did this. i had to get a new neo: my first one got *fried* from this. dunno what to do with the old one, frankly it bothers me having it sit there doing nothing. anyone got any suggestions? The dead part should be easy to find. And all chips are known... I would say, try to repair it. Or find someone who can... Do you know what part is dead? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo has USB power. i did this. i had to get a new neo: my first one got *fried* from this. dunno what to do with the old one, frankly it bothers me having it sit there doing nothing. anyone got any suggestions? ; -- Jay Vaughan ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Yeah, without knowing how the power system is done i dunno either. It could be the charging circuit going to max output to try and raise the battery volts above the min level, (which of course it can't). Whatever the cause, the scream is definitely coming from a coil or inductor vibrating due to the attraction/repulsion between its own magnetic field and the earth's. But which coil/inductor and what's causing it to go into this state i dunno. Ben. Tilman Baumann wrote: Ben Wilson wrote: Hey Nick, I've not looked at the electronics inside the neo myself but the sound is typical in the electronics world of a switchmode power supply under grate strain. The reason is a bit more banal. (AFAIK) The scream has just the frequency how much the main cpu can boot and detect that there is no battery and reset. (something like that) Probably not a good thing for the components, but not a result of any stress to the power drivers. But maybe it results in stress for them... Don't know. Better avoid it. :) Regards Tilman Baumann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb Tilman Baumann: > Ben Wilson wrote: > > Hey Nick, > > > > I've not looked at the electronics inside the neo myself but the sound > > is typical in the electronics world of a switchmode power supply under > > grate strain. > > The reason is a bit more banal. (AFAIK) > The scream has just the frequency how much the main cpu can boot and > detect that there is no battery and reset. (something like that) > Probably not a good thing for the components, but not a result of any > stress to the power drivers. My idea: 50606 PMU is switching rapidly between BATT_VERY_LOW and BAT_OVERVOLT state, and btw powers on and of the whole NEO hw. Not verified. > But maybe it results in stress for them... > > Don't know. Better avoid it. :) agree. j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Ben Wilson wrote: Hey Nick, I've not looked at the electronics inside the neo myself but the sound is typical in the electronics world of a switchmode power supply under grate strain. The reason is a bit more banal. (AFAIK) The scream has just the frequency how much the main cpu can boot and detect that there is no battery and reset. (something like that) Probably not a good thing for the components, but not a result of any stress to the power drivers. But maybe it results in stress for them... Don't know. Better avoid it. :) Regards Tilman Baumann ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Somebody in the thread at some point said: > being an electronics engineer myself i recommend this too. The sound is not > something the phone should be emitting in normal operation. These bad noises often come from inductors under physical stress from the magnetic fields they are being made to develop. This should not be a "feature" of GTA02 hopefully. - -Andy -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHzO7WOjLpvpq7dMoRAvgTAJ901GeRuVOvrdyD22Uvpvb/D4piVgCfSjIA 7aQXGB/u7lJXqoGhuseiuRM= =XqNU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 16:55 +1300, Ben Wilson wrote: > Hi Tim > > While it is possible I think it's quite unlikely. When switchmode power > supplies die they normally destroy themselves. > I would expect, if damage occurred due to usb powered battery removal, > the phone would be dead rather than develop booting problems. Oh, cool - thanks for clarifying that :) -Tim > > Ben. > > Tim Knapp wrote: > > Hi Ben, > > > > Yeah I've done this *once* and it freaked me out. I'm still a bit > > concerned I've caused some permanent damage on my Neo as I've had > > problems booting images on the nand ever since but sdcard images work > > fine - jury is still out on that one. > > > > Thanks, > > Tim > > > > On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 13:45 +1300, Ben Wilson wrote: > > > >> Hey, > >> > >> Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo > >> has USB power. > >> > >> You may not have heard it but the phone gets quite angry. As evident by > >> a quiet scream the phone emits as the components in its power system > >> begin to vibrate closer to magic smoke land. > >> > >> Talking with people on IRC most have done this on occasion without any > >> damage. However you are definitely risking permanent damage with the > >> chance increasing with every second it is in this state. > >> > >> My advice would be… Don't do it and if you do it by accident then pull > >> the plug out quickly rather than listening to the interesting sound. > >> > >> (I don’t know if this also applies to gta02 or not) > >> > >> Ben. > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> OpenMoko community mailing list > >> community@lists.openmoko.org > >> http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > >> > > > > > > ___ > > OpenMoko community mailing list > > community@lists.openmoko.org > > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community > > > > > > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Hi Tim While it is possible I think it's quite unlikely. When switchmode power supplies die they normally destroy themselves. I would expect, if damage occurred due to usb powered battery removal, the phone would be dead rather than develop booting problems. Ben. Tim Knapp wrote: Hi Ben, Yeah I've done this *once* and it freaked me out. I'm still a bit concerned I've caused some permanent damage on my Neo as I've had problems booting images on the nand ever since but sdcard images work fine - jury is still out on that one. Thanks, Tim On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 13:45 +1300, Ben Wilson wrote: Hey, Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo has USB power. You may not have heard it but the phone gets quite angry. As evident by a quiet scream the phone emits as the components in its power system begin to vibrate closer to magic smoke land. Talking with people on IRC most have done this on occasion without any damage. However you are definitely risking permanent damage with the chance increasing with every second it is in this state. My advice would be… Don't do it and if you do it by accident then pull the plug out quickly rather than listening to the interesting sound. (I don’t know if this also applies to gta02 or not) Ben. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Hey Nick, I've not looked at the electronics inside the neo myself but the sound is typical in the electronics world of a switchmode power supply under grate strain. I was told by someone on the irc channel that OM folks recommend you don't do it and being an electronics engineer myself i recommend this too. The sound is not something the phone should be emitting in normal operation. Ben. Nick Guenther wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey, Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo has USB power. You may not have heard it but the phone gets quite angry. As evident by a quiet scream the phone emits as the components in its power system begin to vibrate closer to magic smoke land. Is this true? I haven't been worrying about the scream at all myself. how do you know the whine is from power components? -Nick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb joerg: > Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb Ben Wilson: > > Hey, > > > > Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo > > has USB power. > Hard to tell what the state machine in 50606 will do... Maybe substantially increase C1706 from 10u to say 470u switch type? Anyway i wondered whether U1703 shouldn't operate PWM-mode 5->3.6V stepdown converter - so there's some coil and a freeweel schottky-diode missing for this operation mode. Probably 50606 doesn't support it at all, so just a nice idea. Anyway i guess for 50633 (GTA02) this is completely different jOERG ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 7:45 PM, Ben Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey, > > Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo > has USB power. > > You may not have heard it but the phone gets quite angry. As evident by > a quiet scream the phone emits as the components in its power system > begin to vibrate closer to magic smoke land. Is this true? I haven't been worrying about the scream at all myself. how do you know the whine is from power components? -Nick ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Am Di 4. März 2008 schrieb Ben Wilson: > Hey, > > Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo > has USB power. Hard to tell what the state machine in 50606 will do... :-( sure no good idea to try on a precious piece of hardware j ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Warning. Don't remove battery with usb power
Hi Ben, Yeah I've done this *once* and it freaked me out. I'm still a bit concerned I've caused some permanent damage on my Neo as I've had problems booting images on the nand ever since but sdcard images work fine - jury is still out on that one. Thanks, Tim On Tue, 2008-03-04 at 13:45 +1300, Ben Wilson wrote: > Hey, > > Just a reminder to everyone *NOT* to pull out the battery while the neo > has USB power. > > You may not have heard it but the phone gets quite angry. As evident by > a quiet scream the phone emits as the components in its power system > begin to vibrate closer to magic smoke land. > > Talking with people on IRC most have done this on occasion without any > damage. However you are definitely risking permanent damage with the > chance increasing with every second it is in this state. > > My advice would be… Don't do it and if you do it by accident then pull > the plug out quickly rather than listening to the interesting sound. > > (I don’t know if this also applies to gta02 or not) > > Ben. > > > ___ > OpenMoko community mailing list > community@lists.openmoko.org > http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
