Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Omo Oaiya]

> Le 9 oct. 2021 à 21:49, Mark Tinka  a écrit :
> 
> 
> 
> On 10/8/21 22:46, Omo Oaiya wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Documentaries have actors too
> 
> It is unnecessary to feed trolls. They live off their own oxygen.
> 
> Save your fingers so you can type for more noteworthy responses.
> 

Thanks, Mark.

Omo



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021, 22:27 Omo Oaiya,  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 18:12, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > I will add more actors as we go alone so that we can get to the TRUTH
>> based on some facts :-).
>>
>> It is my experience that actors specialize in drama, comedy, fantasy, and
>> emotion. Rarely do they bring fact to bear.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
> YMMV (as expected) but I and many others are thankful for the facts that
> Niah has been sharing.
>

Hi Omo

Thanks bro and to be honest, Owen's client Lu is in Mauritius supreme court
with the below suit.

**Case #5: Cloud Innovation Ltd vs AFRINIC (SC/COM/MOT/000382/2021)
On 07 July 2021, Cloud Innovation Ltd initiated an application for
Injunction against AFRINIC requiring its board of directors to ratify a
certain resource transfer policy. The matter is resisted by AFRINIC and is
ongoing**

If we all remember, that controversial **Resource Transfer Policy**  is
under two separate PDWG appeals for all is various versions 2, 3 and 4 as
per the unprecidented timeliness and changes within 2 months below.

05 Oct. 2020 Version 4:  AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04

22 Sept 2020 Version 3:  AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03

13 Aug 2020 Version 2:  AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02

No draft proposal has ever been rushed through the PDP like the **Resource
Transfer Policy**.

If we all remember, former co-chair Abdulkarim controversially declared
rough consensus,  consensus, no consensus then consensus on that policy
against the wishes of the PDWG. This action was also unprecedented and we
were all left wondering what the rush was for a proposal that had serious
valid objections.

As far as we know, that policy never obtained PDWG consensus and the facts
are all laid down in the two appeals that the PDWG submitted to the Appeal
Committee.

I know for a fact that Lu Heng was behind the resource transfer policy in
collaboration with its two authors.  There some private emails to this
effect which I can share with the community in case I get permission from
the sender.

I also know for a fact that my brother Abdulkarim never sent the email he
claimed to have sent to the AFRINIC board. This is from a conversation I
had with a relevant party close to the matter.

As for Owen, we will always agree to disagree but I don't care much about
Owens actions as much as I care about my brother Abdulkarim and his actions.

Bottomline, there is some dishonesty that went on that has led us to this
point where there is an attempt by some actors to hijack the bottomup
community mandate through the mauritius supreme court.

I call on the relevant parties to speak out as mine would be secondary
information since the community would do well if they hard from you
directly. I believe if you are reading this, you know yourselves.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Omo Oaiya]

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021, 21:43 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

>
>
> On Oct 8, 2021, at 12:27 PM, Omo Oaiya  wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 18:12, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
> community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > I will add more actors as we go alone so that we can get to the TRUTH
>> based on some facts :-).
>>
>> It is my experience that actors specialize in drama, comedy, fantasy, and
>> emotion. Rarely do they bring fact to bear.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
> YMMV (as expected) but I and many others are thankful for the facts that
> Niah has been sharing.
>
> Omo
>
>
> You entirely missed my point. Noah said he was going to bring in actors to
> get to the TRUTH.
>
> Since actors mostly work with fiction, I find it hard to believe that they
> will be particularly helpful in this context.
>

Documentaries have actors too
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Oct 8, 2021, at 12:27 PM, Omo Oaiya  wrote:
> 
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 18:12, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss 
> mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I will add more actors as we go alone so that we can get to the TRUTH based 
> > on some facts :-).
> 
> It is my experience that actors specialize in drama, comedy, fantasy, and 
> emotion. Rarely do they bring fact to bear.
> 
> Owen
> 
> 
> YMMV (as expected) but I and many others are thankful for the facts that Niah 
> has been sharing.
> 
> Omo 

You entirely missed my point. Noah said he was going to bring in actors to get 
to the TRUTH.

Since actors mostly work with fiction, I find it hard to believe that they will 
be particularly helpful in this context.

Owen

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Omo Oaiya]

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 18:12, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

>
>
> > I will add more actors as we go alone so that we can get to the TRUTH
> based on some facts :-).
>
> It is my experience that actors specialize in drama, comedy, fantasy, and
> emotion. Rarely do they bring fact to bear.
>
> Owen
>
>
YMMV (as expected) but I and many others are thankful for the facts that
Niah has been sharing.

Omo
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:29 PM, Noah  wrote:
> 
> Abdulkarim,
> 
> I have taken note of your rant. After all "A LIE DOES NOT LIKE BEING 
> CHALLENGED".

Should we no start referring to your various diatribes as rants too? This is 
border-line ad hominem and
has no place on the list, IMHO.

…

> I will add more actors as we go alone so that we can get to the TRUTH based 
> on some facts :-).

It is my experience that actors specialize in drama, comedy, fantasy, and 
emotion. Rarely do they bring fact to bear.

Owen



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

Abdulkarim,

I have taken note of your rant. After all "A LIE DOES NOT LIKE BEING
CHALLENGED".

Therefore, I am copying your former colleague and co-chair Moses Serugo so
that we can also here from him.

Dear, Moses please confirm if Abdulkarim is a honest individual? AFTER ALL
THE TRUTH DOES NOT MIND BEING QUESTIONED.

I will add more actors as we go alone so that we can get to the TRUTH based
on some facts :-).

Cheers,
Noah

On Sun, 3 Oct 2021, 17:39 ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE, 
wrote:

>  Noah,
>
> My attention has just been drawn to your email.
>
> I had wanted to reply to your numerous ignorant, unguarded and
> attention-seeking emails in the past, but I felt I would only be dignifying
> you by responding. However, you have crossed the line here, and I need to
> write against my resolve to not comment on some of these issues publicly
> anymore. Therefore, my response here is not to dignify your stupidity but
> to clarify things to those who might mistake your nonsense for the truth.
>
>
>
>  Let me be clear, *I have never lied to the community* (provide any
> evidence if you have one), *nor did I ever abuse the PDP in any way.* All
> the decisions we took are in line with the PDP, and we (cos I never took
> any decision alone) took those decisions based on publicly available
> information and in line with the PDP.
>
>
>
> You and your group were not comfortable with those decisions not because
> they were wrong or because the process was erroneous but instead because
> they do not serve your selfish interest. You decided to set a bad
> precedence to appeal almost all our decisions and till date to God be the
> glory NONE of those appeals were ever successful instead, you and your
> group have now made AFRINIC more dysfunctional than ever before. Prosperity
> has been fair to us. At the very least, I can come out to BOLDLY say that
> the appeal committee that was in place even before we became the Co-chair
> NEVER overturned ANY of our decisions. We had no influence on the appeal
> committee, unlike what you and your friends are now doing. This to me is a
> clear testimony that we did the right thing. We now have a situation where
> Noah is now assuming the role of complainant and judge at the same time.
> This you still have to do long after your kangaroo process. What a
> shame!!!.  Even the kangaroo process never said we did follow the the PDP
> rather they had to invent a new word just to satisfy the target you gave
> them.  You and your friends have now manipulated the process (against the
> PDP) to bring in the so-called "co-chairs" we have no problem with that as
> it was a relief for us but is that what you call a consensus or did that
> process followed the "Norm" ?. If Yes, was it in any way different from
> what we did? When it suits you, you come out to say the consensus is not a
> game of numbers, but when it is against you, you come out to say the
> process was manipulated. If everyone had decided to follow your exact
> methods, hell would have let loose cos it only takes about 5-6 individuals
> to manipulate the system as you did (a story for another day). Things have
> now gone from bad to worse even for the PDP process. All decisions are now
> being appealed thanks to your precedence, and the appeal committee is now
> being turned into a tool just to make sure that you and your small group of
> friends can fully manipulate the entire system.
>
>
>
> Let me be clear once again. A long time ago, I decided not to respond to
> you publicly anymore but I would take all necessary, including legal
> actions against you, if you ever attempt to defame my character again.
>
> To all others, I apologies Noah crossed the line and I was left with no
> other choice since those in-charge of the CoC refused to call him to order
> until i ran into his nonsense  5 days after .
> Cheers
>
> AK
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 10:43 AM Noah  wrote:
>
>> Lu,
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021, 16:30 Lu Heng,  wrote:
>>
>>> As exactly that, Owen does not make a representation of me, or any of
>>> the company some might think he represents, his understanding is
>>> entirely his own and does not speak for me, or NRS.
>>>
>>
>> Very well, this is clear now since Owen often purports to speak on behalf
>> of your various entities using the "*We*" blah blah blah.
>>
>>
>>> To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of
>>> anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a
>>> teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find
>>> not.
>>>
>>
>> The documents being sent to various resource members contain deceit and
>> misrepresentation so much so for false teaching expeditions by your
>> self-serving NRS. Based on my years of participation in this community, I
>> note that, no single resource member and I repeat, no single resource
>> member has ever gone this far or acted in this manner with your motives
>> becoming clearer, each day that passes from Cloud Innovation Ltd and 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[ABDULKARIM OLOYEDE]

 Noah,

My attention has just been drawn to your email.

I had wanted to reply to your numerous ignorant, unguarded and
attention-seeking emails in the past, but I felt I would only be dignifying
you by responding. However, you have crossed the line here, and I need to
write against my resolve to not comment on some of these issues publicly
anymore. Therefore, my response here is not to dignify your stupidity but
to clarify things to those who might mistake your nonsense for the truth.



 Let me be clear, *I have never lied to the community* (provide any
evidence if you have one), *nor did I ever abuse the PDP in any way.* All
the decisions we took are in line with the PDP, and we (cos I never took
any decision alone) took those decisions based on publicly available
information and in line with the PDP.



You and your group were not comfortable with those decisions not because
they were wrong or because the process was erroneous but instead because
they do not serve your selfish interest. You decided to set a bad
precedence to appeal almost all our decisions and till date to God be the
glory NONE of those appeals were ever successful instead, you and your
group have now made AFRINIC more dysfunctional than ever before. Prosperity
has been fair to us. At the very least, I can come out to BOLDLY say that
the appeal committee that was in place even before we became the Co-chair
NEVER overturned ANY of our decisions. We had no influence on the appeal
committee, unlike what you and your friends are now doing. This to me is a
clear testimony that we did the right thing. We now have a situation where
Noah is now assuming the role of complainant and judge at the same time.
This you still have to do long after your kangaroo process. What a
shame!!!.  Even the kangaroo process never said we did follow the the PDP
rather they had to invent a new word just to satisfy the target you gave
them.  You and your friends have now manipulated the process (against the
PDP) to bring in the so-called "co-chairs" we have no problem with that as
it was a relief for us but is that what you call a consensus or did that
process followed the "Norm" ?. If Yes, was it in any way different from
what we did? When it suits you, you come out to say the consensus is not a
game of numbers, but when it is against you, you come out to say the
process was manipulated. If everyone had decided to follow your exact
methods, hell would have let loose cos it only takes about 5-6 individuals
to manipulate the system as you did (a story for another day). Things have
now gone from bad to worse even for the PDP process. All decisions are now
being appealed thanks to your precedence, and the appeal committee is now
being turned into a tool just to make sure that you and your small group of
friends can fully manipulate the entire system.



Let me be clear once again. A long time ago, I decided not to respond to
you publicly anymore but I would take all necessary, including legal
actions against you, if you ever attempt to defame my character again.

To all others, I apologies Noah crossed the line and I was left with no
other choice since those in-charge of the CoC refused to call him to order
until i ran into his nonsense  5 days after .
Cheers

AK



On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 10:43 AM Noah  wrote:

> Lu,
>
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021, 16:30 Lu Heng,  wrote:
>
>> As exactly that, Owen does not make a representation of me, or any of
>> the company some might think he represents, his understanding is
>> entirely his own and does not speak for me, or NRS.
>>
>
> Very well, this is clear now since Owen often purports to speak on behalf
> of your various entities using the "*We*" blah blah blah.
>
>
>> To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of
>> anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a
>> teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find
>> not.
>>
>
> The documents being sent to various resource members contain deceit and
> misrepresentation so much so for false teaching expeditions by your
> self-serving NRS. Based on my years of participation in this community, I
> note that, no single resource member and I repeat, no single resource
> member has ever gone this far or acted in this manner with your motives
> becoming clearer, each day that passes from Cloud Innovation Ltd and all
> its affiliates.
>
> - I do not know of a resource member, who has attempted to recruit other
> resource members through deceit (NRS) until you Lu.
>
> - I do not know of a resource member whose associates (I mean your Larus
> Foundation Fellows) have repeatedly acted as an echo-chamber to ensure the
> AFRINIC PDP is rendered dysfunctional.
>
> - I do not know of a resource member who has attempted to work behind the
> scenes and push for a draft proposal through proxy authors until you Lu.
> You were always behind this Antony Ubah and Taiwo draft policy which the
> community rejected that today has pending PDWG 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[ALAIN AINA via Community-Discuss]

Hi,

> On 26 Sep 2021, at 15:03, Sander Steffann  wrote:
> 
> Hi Omo,
> 
>> Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the 
>> "clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?   
> 
> At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of 
> "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements 
> they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their 
> own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs.

Never seen people at the mic reading or building ideas from written notes?  
Let not generalise.

These issues have been discussed deeply and the archives can tell.  

You only see it happen at meetings? don’t you follow the discussions on Mailing 
lists?   Seen the eco chamber phenomena ?  

People should be allowed to express themselve, but accept the rules  and roles 
separation. 

Problems occurred :

 ⁃ when the consensus approach turns into numbers' game and people deliberately 
gaming and slowing down the system and refuse to adhere to the rules and 
principles.
 ⁃ When people promote voting against consensus and merit 
 ⁃ When community no longer shares common goals, with some challenging mission 
and mandate of AFRINiC
 ⁃ Etc…


> AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence 
> that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this 
> as normal.

The above statement is very surprising to me as this community has spent lot of 
energy and time discussing, opposing and calling out the authors of these 
behaviours. Some of these are outsiders with personal hidden agendas. 


>  In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) 
> and everybody is treated more equally.


Why should all regions behave or follow the same structure?  Are we not 
Regional Registry which should accommodate local realities and practices?  
In AFRICA, we observe respect and consideration for elders as we value their 
experience and knowledge 

Can you show how people are treated differently and how the "hierarchy" is 
problematic?  

Can you point out your grievance with the CoE as defined  per the section 16 of 
the bylaws ?  

> 
> The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, 
> RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and 
> Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up 
> system.

Once again, can you prove your statements above? where is the distrust between 
"anglophone" and "francophone"  
Where are these sub-set ( anglophone and francophone)defined if not only in the 
imagination of those gaming and manipulating the system.

Don’t you have linguistic diversity in RIPE Region ?


> Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to 
> top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already 
> there.

There is no top-down influences. The system is victim of external influences 
disguised in many forms fed by Jalousies and conflict of Interest, abusing  the 
community-driven and bottom-up.

While i do accept your disclaimer below, i would have expected an outsider like 
you, to hold some reserve, stick to the real facts, not make judgments and 
stand to be educated.  


—Alain
> 
> Cheers,
> Sander
> 
> PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the 
> AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the 
> outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of 
> my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a 
> mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I 
> do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only 
> reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists.
> 
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Sep 28, 2021, at 09:45 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Owen,
>  
> I’ve been silent till now on till now on all this.
>  
> However, I must say that you’re right that they didn’t violate the CoC, they 
> did something presumable worst which may constitute criminal offenses 
> (slander, defamation, etc., I’m not sure what is the best way to translate it 
> from my Spanish knowledge about legal language, maybe even several presumable 
> illegal acts and not just one).

Really? Point to the exact criminal content, please.
 
> It is clear that the intent from those documents is to be misread, as they 
> are partial and as such contain untrue information.

What information is untrue, exactly?
 
> I just hope that AFRINIC is able to use all that in the actual case or even a 
> new one if required.

I suspect that’s unlikely as I think you have badly misjudged the situation.
 
> Note that I don’t agree with all what the Board is doing, and I really 
> believe they took very wrong decisions (I’m even still waiting from Board 
> answers on policy proposals and PDP related discussions for months, with 
> shows a very poor willingness from the Board to resolve issues and cooperate 
> in a productive and efficient manner with the community), but also don’t 
> agree that using partial documents is the way to go.

Everyone uses partial documents… I’ve removed much of the earlier conversation 
below in this email, for example. Are you going to attempt to call that slander 
or defamation?

Owen

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss]

Hi Owen,

 

I’ve been silent till now on till now on all this.

 

However, I must say that you’re right that they didn’t violate the CoC, they 
did something presumable worst which may constitute criminal offenses (slander, 
defamation, etc., I’m not sure what is the best way to translate it from my 
Spanish knowledge about legal language, maybe even several presumable illegal 
acts and not just one).

 

It is clear that the intent from those documents is to be misread, as they are 
partial and as such contain untrue information.

 

I just hope that AFRINIC is able to use all that in the actual case or even a 
new one if required.

 

Note that I don’t agree with all what the Board is doing, and I really believe 
they took very wrong decisions (I’m even still waiting from Board answers on 
policy proposals and PDP related discussions for months, with shows a very poor 
willingness from the Board to resolve issues and cooperate in a productive and 
efficient manner with the community), but also don’t agree that using partial 
documents is the way to go.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 28/9/21 18:25, "Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss" 
 escribió:

 

But the ones that produced and propagated the content didn’t violate your CoC 
either as they didn’t post it to your list.

 

Owen

 



On Sep 27, 2021, at 23:31 , AFRINIC Communication  wrote:

 

Dear Nigel,

 

We thank you for bringing this to our attention.

 

The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that produce 
and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and community.

 

We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support.

 

Regards,

 

AFRINIC Communication



On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard  wrote:

 

 

On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
Dear community members,
 
AFRINIC has  taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that 
contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread 
(https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html)
 and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet 
Registry for the African region.
I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread that 
others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out of 
context?

How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing damage 
and prejudice to AFRINIC?

Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out?

 
AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the 
said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving 
AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in 
respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources.
Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited 
communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each other 
on a COMMUNITY mailing list and discussing it.

 
 AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of 
Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of 
causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised.
Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited 
communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm 
causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?

 

-N

 
We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of 
conduct in their exchanges.
 
We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to 
date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven 
policies at the heart of AFRINIC.
 
The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that 
individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks.
 
Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of 
Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct
 
 
AFRINIC Communication
 
On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann  wrote:
 
Hi Omo,
 
Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the 
"clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?   
At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" 
(people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't 
write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) 
which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way 
there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up 
way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much 
less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more 
equally.
 
The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, 
community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

But the ones that produced and propagated the content didn’t violate your CoC 
either as they didn’t post it to your list.

Owen


> On Sep 27, 2021, at 23:31 , AFRINIC Communication  wrote:
> 
> Dear Nigel,
> 
> We thank you for bringing this to our attention.
> 
> The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that produce 
> and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and community.
> 
> We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> AFRINIC Communication
> 
>> On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
>>> Dear community members,
>>> 
>>> AFRINIC has  taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment 
>>> that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread 
>>> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html
>>>  
>>> )
>>>  and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional 
>>> Internet Registry for the African region.
>> I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread that 
>> others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out of 
>> context?
>> 
>> How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing 
>> damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?
>> 
>> Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in 
>>> the said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases 
>>> involving AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police 
>>> investigation in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP 
>>> number resources.
>> Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited 
>> communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each 
>> other on a COMMUNITY mailing list and discussing it.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>  AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code 
>>> of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the 
>>> purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as 
>>> it may be advised.
>> Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited 
>> communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm 
>> causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -N
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code 
>>> of conduct in their exchanges.
>>> 
>>> We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up 
>>> to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven 
>>> policies at the heart of AFRINIC.
>>> 
>>> The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that 
>>> individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal 
>>> attacks.
>>> 
>>> Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC 
>>> Code of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> AFRINIC Communication
>>> 
 On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann  
  wrote:
 
 Hi Omo,
 
> Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and 
> the "clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?   
 At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of 
 "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined 
 statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that 
 it was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC 
 seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that 
 are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as 
 normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for 
 example) and everybody is treated more equally.
 
 The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, 
 RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and 
 Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true 
 bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very 
 vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such 
 influences is already there.
 
 Cheers,
 Sander
 
 PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the 
 AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the 
 outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because 
 of my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold 
 up a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

Dear AFRINIC Comms,

Please do not create confusion within the community. Your email to Nigel
was not clear. For your information, more AFRINIC resource members and
communication regulators are also being targeted by the NRS campaign if
mis-information. And since when was Ernest Byaruhaga the CEO of AFRINIC.

Please can AFRINIC clarify if that is true or not because documents being
circulated by the Number Resource Society people are purporting as such.

Noah

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 9:36 AM AFRINIC Communication 
wrote:

> Dear Nigel,
>
> We thank you for bringing this to our attention.
>
> The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that
> produce and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and
> community.
>
> We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support.
>
> Regards,
>
> AFRINIC Communication
>
> On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard  wrote:
>
>
> On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
>
> Dear community members,
>
> AFRINIC has  taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment 
> that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread 
> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html)
>  and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional 
> Internet Registry for the African region.
>
> I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread
> that others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out
> of context?
>
> How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing
> damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?
>
> Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out?
>
>
> AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the 
> said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving 
> AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation 
> in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources.
>
> Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited
> communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each
> other on a *COMMUNITY* mailing list and discussing it.
>
>
>  AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code 
> of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the 
> purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it 
> may be advised.
>
> Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited
> communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm
> causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?
>
>
> -N
>
>
> We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code 
> of conduct in their exchanges.
>
> We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up 
> to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven 
> policies at the heart of AFRINIC.
>
> The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that 
> individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks.
>
> Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code 
> of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct
>
>
> AFRINIC Communication
>
>
> On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann  
>  wrote:
>
> Hi Omo,
>
>
> Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the 
> "clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?
>
> At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of 
> "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements 
> they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their 
> own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be 
> unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are 
> undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. 
> In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) 
> and everybody is treated more equally.
>
> The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, 
> RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and 
> Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up 
> system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable 
> to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already 
> there.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
> PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the 
> AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the 
> outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of 
> my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a 
> mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I 
> do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only 
> reasons I 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

Lu,

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021, 16:30 Lu Heng,  wrote:

> As exactly that, Owen does not make a representation of me, or any of
> the company some might think he represents, his understanding is
> entirely his own and does not speak for me, or NRS.
>

Very well, this is clear now since Owen often purports to speak on behalf
of your various entities using the "*We*" blah blah blah.


> To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of
> anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a
> teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find
> not.
>

The documents being sent to various resource members contain deceit and
misrepresentation so much so for false teaching expeditions by your
self-serving NRS. Based on my years of participation in this community, I
note that, no single resource member and I repeat, no single resource
member has ever gone this far or acted in this manner with your motives
becoming clearer, each day that passes from Cloud Innovation Ltd and all
its affiliates.

- I do not know of a resource member, who has attempted to recruit other
resource members through deceit (NRS) until you Lu.

- I do not know of a resource member whose associates (I mean your Larus
Foundation Fellows) have repeatedly acted as an echo-chamber to ensure the
AFRINIC PDP is rendered dysfunctional.

- I do not know of a resource member who has attempted to work behind the
scenes and push for a draft proposal through proxy authors until you Lu.
You were always behind this Antony Ubah and Taiwo draft policy which the
community rejected that today has pending PDWG appeals.  If you deny what I
just stated, I will ask a renowned community member to speak out about what
I just stated.



*Case #5: Cloud Innovation Ltd vs AFRINIC (SC/COM/MOT/000382/2021)On 07
July 2021, Cloud Innovation Ltd initiated an application for Injunction
against AFRINIC requiring its board of directors to ratify a certain
resource transfer policy. The matter is resisted by AFRINIC and is ongoing.*
We the community rejected the proposal above because the co-chair errored
and we appealed as we are empowered through the bottom up process. One of
the former co-chairs, Abdulkarim, repeatedly lied to the community and
abused the PDP process to forcefully advance this proposal which you have
always pushed for behind the scenes.  The proposal in fact was never even
compatible with any RIR in all its multiple versions 2, version, 3 or
version 4 all of which were rushed through by your associates Antony and
Taiwo.

Today, you want to hijack the empowered internet community and its
bottom-up process by going to the Mauritian supreme courts in an attempt to
force the court to ratify the flawed self-serving draft policy of yours.
More than ever, the motive is clear, you want to use the policy as a means
to again, as usual, abuse existing community developed processes so that
you can get the opportunity to transfer the space that was allocated to you
for use in AFRICA out of the region.

I repeat, I do not know of a resource member who has invested so much
energy in pushing a draft policy proposal that never reached community
consensus until you Lu. AbdulKarim screaming Rough Consensus, Consensus, No
Consensus and Consensus within 4 weeks in the last call does not make for
Consensus.

In the history of the AFRINIC PDP, no proposal has ever been protested like
your resource transfer policy and that should tell you something about the
bottom up process which you clearly do not respect or have a clue about.

Your  behaviour is so wanting Lu.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[AFRINIC Communication]

Dear Nigel,

We thank you for bringing this to our attention.

The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that produce 
and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and community.

We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support.

Regards,

AFRINIC Communication

> On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
>> Dear community members,
>> 
>> AFRINIC has  taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment 
>> that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread 
>> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html
>>  
>> )
>>  and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional 
>> Internet Registry for the African region.
> I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread that 
> others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out of 
> context?
> 
> How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing damage 
> and prejudice to AFRINIC?
> 
> Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out?
> 
> 
> 
>> AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the 
>> said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving 
>> AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation 
>> in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources.
> Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited 
> communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each 
> other on a COMMUNITY mailing list and discussing it.
> 
> 
> 
>>  AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code 
>> of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the 
>> purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it 
>> may be advised.
> Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited 
> communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm 
> causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?
> 
> 
> 
> -N
> 
> 
> 
>> We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code 
>> of conduct in their exchanges.
>> 
>> We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up 
>> to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven 
>> policies at the heart of AFRINIC.
>> 
>> The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that 
>> individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal 
>> attacks.
>> 
>> Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code 
>> of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> AFRINIC Communication
>> 
>>> On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann  
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Omo,
>>> 
 Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and 
 the "clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?   
>>> At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of 
>>> "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined 
>>> statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it 
>>> was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems 
>>> to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are 
>>> undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as 
>>> normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for 
>>> example) and everybody is treated more equally.
>>> 
>>> The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, 
>>> RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and 
>>> Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true 
>>> bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very 
>>> vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such 
>>> influences is already there.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sander
>>> 
>>> PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the 
>>> AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the 
>>> outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of 
>>> my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up 
>>> a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but 
>>> I do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only 
>>> reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists.
>>> 
>> 

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Nigel Kukard via Community-Discuss]

On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote:

Dear community members,

AFRINIC has  taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that 
contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread 
(https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html)
 and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet 
Registry for the African region.


I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread 
that others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post 
out of context?


How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing 
damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?


Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out?



AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the 
said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving 
AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in 
respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources.


Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting 
unsolicited communications involving email and phone calls and sharing 
this with each other on a _COMMUNITY_ mailing list and discussing it.




  AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of 
Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of 
causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised.


Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited 
communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because 
I'm causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC?



-N



We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of 
conduct in their exchanges.

We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to 
date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven 
policies at the heart of AFRINIC.

The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that 
individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks.

Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of 
Conduct:https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct

  
AFRINIC Communication



On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann  wrote:

Hi Omo,


Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the 
"clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?

At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" 
(people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't write 
themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) which I have never 
seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and 
influence that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as 
normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and 
everybody is treated more equally.

The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, 
community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone parts of the 
community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and 
its community make it very vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for 
such influences is already there.

Cheers,
Sander

PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the 
AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the 
outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my 
different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a 
mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do 
care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I 
speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:28 , AFRINIC Communication  wrote:
> 
> Dear community members,
> 
> AFRINIC has  taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment 
> that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread 
> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html)
>  and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional 
> Internet Registry for the African region.

Yes, but the attachment wasn’t posted to the mailing list by its original 
sender, it was posted by someone complaining about the mailing having been 
received in a completely different context.

> AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the 
> said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving 
> AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation 
> in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources. 
> AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of 
> Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes 
> of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be 
> advised.

So you’re going to go after the person who posted the attachment in order to 
complain about it? That seems unreasonable, even by AFRINIC standards.

Personally, I don’t think the attachment was inaccurate or out of context, but 
I agree that it asks questions that are likely uncomfortable for AFRINIC at 
this time.

As near as I can tell, it’s an attempt to recruit members to the NRS. I don’t 
see anything in there that actually harms or attempts to harm AFRINIC.

Nonetheless, it wasn’t posted to the list by its supporters, it was posted by 
someone complaining about it. As such, the only poster of said attachment that 
you can apply the CoC to is the one complaining about it.

I suppose that is how AFRINIC treats its community members these days.

Owen


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[AFRINIC Communication]

Dear community members,

AFRINIC has  taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that 
contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread 
(https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html)
 and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet 
Registry for the African region.

AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the 
said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving 
AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in 
respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources. 
AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of 
Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of 
causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised.

We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of 
conduct in their exchanges.

We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to 
date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven 
policies at the heart of AFRINIC.

The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that 
individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks.

Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of 
Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct

 
AFRINIC Communication

> On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann  wrote:
> 
> Hi Omo,
> 
>> Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the 
>> "clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?   
> 
> At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of 
> "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements 
> they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their 
> own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be 
> unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are 
> undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. 
> In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) 
> and everybody is treated more equally.
> 
> The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, 
> RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and 
> Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up 
> system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable 
> to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already 
> there.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sander
> 
> PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the 
> AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the 
> outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of 
> my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a 
> mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I 
> do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only 
> reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists.
> 
> 
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> Community-Discuss@afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Sander Steffann]

Hi Omo,

> Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the 
> "clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?   

At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" 
(people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't 
write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) 
which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way 
there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up 
way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much 
less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more 
equally.

The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, 
community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone 
parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such 
behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to top-down 
influences, because the framework for such influences is already there.

Cheers,
Sander

PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the 
AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the 
outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my 
different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a 
mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do 
care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I 
speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists.


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Omo Oaiya]

On Sun, 26 Sept 2021 at 15:09, Sander Steffann  wrote:

> Hi Omo,
>
> > Have you heard of anyone from RIPE or any of the other RIRs being
> canvassed in this manner?  Or is AFRINIC special?
>
> As far as I know this is only happening in AFRINIC. But the way AFRINIC
> deals with its members and community is also "unique". Other RIRs have a
> much less contentious relationship with their community, so that may be of
> influence...
>
>
Thanks.  I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the
"clarification".  How do you mean "may be of influence"?
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Sander Steffann]

Hi Omo,

> Have you heard of anyone from RIPE or any of the other RIRs being canvassed 
> in this manner?  Or is AFRINIC special?

As far as I know this is only happening in AFRINIC. But the way AFRINIC deals 
with its members and community is also "unique". Other RIRs have a much less 
contentious relationship with their community, so that may be of influence...

Cheers,
Sander


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Omo Oaiya]

On Sun, 26 Sept 2021 at 14:26, Sander Steffann  wrote:

> Hi Lu,
>
> > To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of
> > anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a
> > teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find
> > not.
>
> Thank you for that clarification.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
>
>
Sander,

Have you heard of anyone from RIPE or any of the other RIRs being canvassed
in this manner?  Or is AFRINIC special?

Omo
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Sander Steffann]

Hi Lu,

> To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of
> anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a
> teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find
> not.

Thank you for that clarification.

Cheers,
Sander


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Lu Heng]

As exactly that, Owen does not make a representation of me, or any of
the company some might think he represents, his understanding is
entirely his own and does not speak for me, or NRS.

To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of
anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a
teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find
not.

Just like earlier days of RIPE meeting no one talks to me but Rob, and
he teaches me on what turns out to be my understanding of the system.

In RIPE meetings we always hear this disclaimer that "my views are my
own" "xxx. internet person", and yes, I fully understand and support
it.




On Sun, 26 Sept 2021 at 21:05, Sander Steffann  wrote:
>
> Hi Lu,
>
> > An avocation does not constitute policy. An private NGO can not make top 
> > down policy in the society. Afrinic can not, NRS can not.
>
> As Owen told me "It is intended to be (to some extent) a lobbying group on 
> behalf of its members.". Even if it is just limited to that, it goes against 
> all bottom-up fundamentals. There is no place for advocacy/lobbying in a 
> bottom-up community.
>
> You always tell me that you base your ideas on those of Rob Blokzijn. Well, 
> then follow his basic rule: everybody speaks for themselves, and only for 
> themselves. In a bottom-up community there is no place for "representation" 
> of groups. Everybody's voice counts exactly the same. That is a rule that was 
> at the heart of Rob's teachings.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>


-- 
--
Kind regards.
Lu

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Sander Steffann]

Hi Lu,

> An avocation does not constitute policy. An private NGO can not make top down 
> policy in the society. Afrinic can not, NRS can not.

As Owen told me "It is intended to be (to some extent) a lobbying group on 
behalf of its members.". Even if it is just limited to that, it goes against 
all bottom-up fundamentals. There is no place for advocacy/lobbying in a 
bottom-up community.

You always tell me that you base your ideas on those of Rob Blokzijn. Well, 
then follow his basic rule: everybody speaks for themselves, and only for 
themselves. In a bottom-up community there is no place for "representation" of 
groups. Everybody's voice counts exactly the same. That is a rule that was at 
the heart of Rob's teachings.

Cheers,
Sander


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Lu Heng]

Hi Sander:

An avocation does not constitute policy. An private NGO can not make top
down policy in the society. Afrinic can not, NRS can not.

I support RIR system to be a true bookkeeper and stay out of anti trust
behavior. And I don’t believe if ever, RIR system is being replaced, will
be replaced by another NGO, Hence claim some NGO can/try form another RIR
is a laughable idea.

Cold War does not turn into nuclear because consistent de-escalation.
Provocation, personal emotion, character assassination all will not help
the situation.



Sander Steffann 于2021年9月26日 周日01:32写道：

> Hi,
>
> > Yep  attached another one.
>
> That attachment looks like they are trying to form another RIR to replace
> AFRINIC by making promised about future policies that they (top-down) will
> implement. That is so disgusting and inappropriate. There are many things
> that AFRINIC has done that I really don't like, but trying to replace them
> with a top-down entity?!?! That is something I REALLY despise…
>
> Sander
>
>
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>
-- 
--
Kind regards.
Lu
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message <40da7636-a1d7-4226-b8dc-24bcdf6a4...@steffann.nl>, 
Sander Steffann  wrote:

>That attachment looks like they are trying to form another RIR to replace
>AFRINIC by making promised about future policies that they (top-down) will
>implement. That is so disgusting and inappropriate. There are many things
>that AFRINIC has done that I really don't like, but trying to replace them
>with a top-down entity?!?! That is something I REALLY despise...

I personally have no objection if some other entity wants to come in and
fully take over all of the duties of AFRINIC, e.g. if that other entity
thinks that it can do a better job.

The problem I have with this apparent current attempt to do that is that
it is clearly not based on anything which is even remotely democratic.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... It appears from where I am
sitting that this is just an attempt at a hostile takeover by one company
and one guy.  And I think that if it were successful, it would not serve
the interests of even a significant minority of the current AFRINIC dues-
paying members.


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Boubakar Barry]

Owen,

On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 8:44 PM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

>
> > Noah,
> >
> > Do you think Owen doesn’t know all this?   He has to sing to his
> master’s tune.  My advice is to ignore Owen and all the other paid stooges
> and call out their paymaster as you are doing.
>
> I do not have a master. The tune I sing is one of my choosing. Your ad
> hominem attack here is unwarranted, unfounded, and ill conceived.
>
> As you will see from my detailed reply to Noah’s message, he has
> misrepresented the facts of the matter.
>
> I regularly disagree with Lu and Larus, however, in this particular
> situation, it is, in fact, AFRINIC that has repeatedly stepped over the
> line.
>
> We will see how the courts respond to this in due course.
>

To be honest, I sometimes feel pity for you and I wonder why you don't just
"retire" from all of this. I have known another Owen in the past, maybe a
false judgement from me at that time.
This whole discussion with you trying for months to respond to questions
not directed to you is just pathetic.

But who knows, as you admit that you are connected to those who want to
bury AFRINIC, maybe the cheques you receive from them are just difficult to
not accept and cash?

Boubakar


> Owen
>
>
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> Noah,
> 
> Do you think Owen doesn’t know all this?   He has to sing to his master’s 
> tune.  My advice is to ignore Owen and all the other paid stooges and call 
> out their paymaster as you are doing.   

I do not have a master. The tune I sing is one of my choosing. Your ad hominem 
attack here is unwarranted, unfounded, and ill conceived.

As you will see from my detailed reply to Noah’s message, he has misrepresented 
the facts of the matter.

I regularly disagree with Lu and Larus, however, in this particular situation, 
it is, in fact, AFRINIC that has repeatedly stepped over the line.

We will see how the courts respond to this in due course.

Owen



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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Sep 25, 2021, at 03:14 , Noah  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 22:10 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, 
> mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Sep 23, 2021, at 11:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette  > > wrote:
> 
> > Owen, take some free advice.  Stop saying stupid stuff.  You don't have
> > a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to
> > say stuff that can so easily be disproven.  The following was already
> > posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion:
> > 
> > 
> >> �  What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 
> >> million USD in debt?
> 
> That’s a valid question and not misinformation.
> 
> >> �  Will the African internet be disrupted?
> 
> Another valid question and not misinformation.
> 
> >> �  Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of 
> >> the African Internet Registry?
> 
> Another valid question and not misinformation.
> 
> >> �  How can the resource members save their operations by transferring 
> >> their resources elsewhere?
> 
> 
> Owen,
> 
> The questions from NRS are tactical and intended to spew doubt and 
> uncertainty among a handful of AFRINIC resource members who are unfortunately 
> ignorant about matters AFRINIC.

That doesn’t make them illegitimate or misinformation.

> Why does Lu Heng who is suing care of AFRINIC looses in court. I thought that 
> is exactly what Lu Heng wants. So why does he care? 

I don’t know why Lu chooses to care about the things he cares about, I suppose 
you should ask him.

> Why does Lu Heng care if the Africa Internet gets disrupted. Who went to 
> court first? Anyway, Last I checked, Lu Heng customers are not in Africa 
> since public data shows a handful of them are mostly in China and USA.

Contrary to the allegations, we have clients in Africa and we do provide 
services there. Contrary to the allegations, we do not want to see the internet 
disrupted anywhere.

Usually the victim is the one who sues in any situation. Since you know I am 
barred from commenting on certain case specifics due to the sub judice rules, I 
will speak hypothetically about some other situation that is similar…

Let’s presume that MegaCorp was the only supplier of fish in your town. 
Further, let’s presume that you have a contract with MegaCorp to supply you a 
certain number of fish every week, so long as you continue to pay for
the fish at the agreed upon price and so long as you serve the fish in 
restaurants rather than letting them languish in the freezer.

Now, let’s presume that without evidence that you even have a freezer, MegaCorp 
says that they believe you are stockpiling the fish in a freezer and not 
serving them and are therefore going to stop delivering fish to you
in 30 days unless you can prove that you don’t have any of their fish in any 
freezers anywhere and have, in fact served all of their fish. Further, they 
assert that you are required to have served those fish in one particular
restaurant or they will stop delivering fish to you in 30 days. Further, you 
are required to identify all freezers you have and submit them for inspection 
and if they find any fish in the freezers, they will confiscate those as
well, no matter whether they are fish you obtained from MegaCorp or not.

Would you permit MegaCorp to do this to you, or would you seek protection for 
your restaurants from MegaCorp through the courts since MegaCorp is clearly 
trying to subject you to provisions that are not in the contract?

> So this is classic Lu Heng.  He will use CIL, Larus Ltd, Larus Foundation and 
> his Number Resource Society aka NRS tactically to advance whatever new false 
> narrative he wishes to spread inline with his deeply rooted beliefs that  RIR 
> are just book keepers. He confuses Larus Ltd which is the book keeper for an 
> RIR.

Sorry, that doesn’t parse… What false narrative do you refer to?

RIRs are first and foremost a form of bookkeeper — They are a registry. Their 
duty is to properly record and register the delegation of IP number resources 
to entities that have applied and qualified for them.

Perhaps it is you that are confusing RIRs for some quasi-governmental agency 
when they are just another not-for-profit NGO?

I don’t think Larus Ltd. provides any bookkeeping services to any RIR save for 
the records required to be kept by them as an LIR under the RSA.

> You see, Lu does not care about any of the AFRINIC resource members he is 
> currently targeting in his new subtle campaign of attempting to recruit a 
> couple of AFRINIC resource members to his hongkong based NRS to his own 
> benefit. 

There are many terms I would use to describe that recruitment campaign from 
NRS, but subtle isn’t one of them.

Further, as I work with Lu and converse with him almost daily, given that I am 
uncertain as to what he does or does not care about, I am willing to suggest 
you likely have very little 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Sep 25, 2021, at 02:23 , Noah  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021, 03:27 Owen DeLong,  > wrote:
> List administrators, are we really going to tolerate Noah calling everyone 
> who disagrees with him a “Lu Heng recruit” or similar?
> 
> Owen,
> 
> I didnt know you as one who lacks backbone even though its typical of all Lu 
> Heng stooges to cry for CoC whenever you guys are corned.
> 
> 
> Noah, contrary to what you’d like to have everyone believe, there are people 
> who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng.
> 
> Well Siyuan Miao through a simple G-lookup has already confirmed that Cheken 
> and Olerato are your colleagues and both are indeed associated with Lu Heng 
> thereby confirming my earlier assumption.

Even though they are associated, it is not appropriate for you to engage in ad 
hominem against them by calling them cutouts, sock puppets, or whatever other 
epithet you choose to use at any given time.

Owen

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Sander Steffann]

Hi,

> Yep  attached another one.

That attachment looks like they are trying to form another RIR to replace 
AFRINIC by making promised about future policies that they (top-down) will 
implement. That is so disgusting and inappropriate. There are many things that 
AFRINIC has done that I really don't like, but trying to replace them with a 
top-down entity?!?! That is something I REALLY despise…

Sander


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Omo Oaiya]

> On 25 Sep 2021, at 11:14, Noah  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 22:10 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, 
> mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net>> wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Sep 23, 2021, at 11:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette  > > wrote:
> 
> > Owen, take some free advice.  Stop saying stupid stuff.  You don't have
> > a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to
> > say stuff that can so easily be disproven.  The following was already
> > posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion:
> > 
> > 
> >> �  What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 
> >> million USD in debt?
> 
> That’s a valid question and not misinformation.
> 
> >> �  Will the African internet be disrupted?
> 
> Another valid question and not misinformation.
> 
> >> �  Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of 
> >> the African Internet Registry?
> 
> Another valid question and not misinformation.
> 
> >> �  How can the resource members save their operations by transferring 
> >> their resources elsewhere?
> 
> 
> Owen,
> 
> The questions from NRS are tactical and intended to spew doubt and 
> uncertainty among a handful of AFRINIC resource members who are unfortunately 
> ignorant about matters AFRINIC.
> 
> Why does Lu Heng who is suing care of AFRINIC looses in court. I thought that 
> is exactly what Lu Heng wants. So why does he care? 
> 
> Why does Lu Heng care if the Africa Internet gets disrupted. Who went to 
> court first? Anyway, Last I checked, Lu Heng customers are not in Africa 
> since public data shows a handful of them are mostly in China and USA.
> 
> So this is classic Lu Heng.  He will use CIL, Larus Ltd, Larus Foundation and 
> his Number Resource Society aka NRS tactically to advance whatever new false 
> narrative he wishes to spread inline with his deeply rooted beliefs that  RIR 
> are just book keepers. He confuses Larus Ltd which is the book keeper for an 
> RIR.
> 
> You see, Lu does not care about any of the AFRINIC resource members he is 
> currently targeting in his new subtle campaign of attempting to recruit a 
> couple of AFRINIC resource members to his hongkong based NRS to his own 
> benefit. 
> 
> All those questions are intended for a purpose. To cast doubt among some 
> resource members who do not actually have a clue what is going on. The ones 
> who pay membership fees each year and are not necessary involved with AFRINIC 
> matters perhaps due to limited outreach by the administration at AFRINIC to 
> its own members.
> 
> 
> Those message are misinformation crafted by desperate Lu Heng. You see if 
> there is something he know best, is his attempts to abuse existing processes. 
> ARIN CEO, did confirm this to be true when Lu went to ARIN asking for IPv4 
> and they rejected his applications until he came to AFRINIC service region 
> where unfortunately, he managed to game the system.
> 
> The Larus foundation for a couple of years literary rendered the AFRINIC PDP 
> hopeless with its so called Fellows (mostly university students) who were 
> literary paid up mercenaries after all those stipends where not for free. We 
> know most of the actors.
> 
> I mean, Cloud Innovation Ltd is literary abusing the mauritian legal system. 
> Who the heck goes to court with 12 cases, I mean 12 law suits against an 
> single member-baded not-for profit entity. Good for Appleby though, suits are 
> not served freely.
>  
> https://afrinic.net/court-cases 
> 
> Now you have this so called Number Resource Society nrs.help attempting to 
> recruit AFRINIC resource members to the Lu Heng train. This is about Lu 
> defending his personal interest as a typical dishonest individual he has been 
> since 2014 when he lied that he would be investing in AFRICA and use the 
> millions of IPs in AFRICA. I despise liars especially those who take the rest 
> of Africa for fools.
> 
> While most AFRINIC resource members may not realise it, but its we resource 
> members who are being sued. 
> 
> Who is AFRINIC? Or What is AFRINIC? Is it the staff employed by AFRINIC ? Is 
> it the registered directors? or is it the over 1800 resource members serving 
> the wider African Internet community?  
> 
> In one of the suits, Lu Heng wants a purported 1.8 billion and some 50 
> Million from AFRINIC?  He basically wants our hard earned money which we have 
> contributed for over 20 years through annual membership fees that this guy 
> wants to rip us off. 
> 
> How much has Lu Heng contributed to AFRINIC since the dude showed up in 2013? 
> 
> What has he done for our region that any soul can admire him for beyond his 
> fake PR stunts in terms of sponsorships which he calls investment.
> 
> Resource members and the community needs to be woke and not fall into his 
> manipulations.
> The Number Resource Society is fake Lu Heng Project. Dont fall for it. 
> 
> The community and PDWG 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 22:10 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, <
community-discuss@afrinic.net> wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 23, 2021, at 11:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette 
> wrote:
>
> > Owen, take some free advice.  Stop saying stupid stuff.  You don't have
> > a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to
> > say stuff that can so easily be disproven.  The following was already
> > posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion:
> >
> >
> >> �  What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50
> million USD in debt?
>
> That’s a valid question and not misinformation.
>
> >> �  Will the African internet be disrupted?
>
> Another valid question and not misinformation.
>
> >> �  Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of
> the African Internet Registry?
>
> Another valid question and not misinformation.
>
> >> �  How can the resource members save their operations by transferring
> their resources elsewhere?
>


Owen,

The questions from NRS are tactical and intended to spew doubt and
uncertainty among a handful of AFRINIC resource members who are
unfortunately ignorant about matters AFRINIC.

Why does Lu Heng who is suing care of AFRINIC looses in court. I thought
that is exactly what Lu Heng wants. So why does he care?

Why does Lu Heng care if the Africa Internet gets disrupted. Who went to
court first? Anyway, Last I checked, Lu Heng customers are not in Africa
since public data shows a handful of them are mostly in China and USA.

So this is classic Lu Heng.  He will use CIL, Larus Ltd, Larus Foundation
and his Number Resource Society aka NRS tactically to advance whatever new
false narrative he wishes to spread inline with his deeply rooted beliefs
that  RIR are just book keepers. He confuses Larus Ltd which is the book
keeper for an RIR.

You see, Lu does not care about any of the AFRINIC resource members he is
currently targeting in his new subtle campaign of attempting to recruit a
couple of AFRINIC resource members to his hongkong based NRS to his own
benefit.

All those questions are intended for a purpose. To cast doubt among some
resource members who do not actually have a clue what is going on. The ones
who pay membership fees each year and are not necessary involved with
AFRINIC matters perhaps due to limited outreach by the administration at
AFRINIC to its own members.


Those message are misinformation crafted by desperate Lu Heng. You see if
there is something he know best, is his attempts to abuse existing
processes. ARIN CEO, did confirm this to be true when Lu went to ARIN
asking for IPv4 and they rejected his applications until he came to AFRINIC
service region where unfortunately, he managed to game the system.

The Larus foundation for a couple of years literary rendered the AFRINIC
PDP hopeless with its so called Fellows (mostly university students) who
were literary paid up mercenaries after all those stipends where not for
free. We know most of the actors.

I mean, Cloud Innovation Ltd is literary abusing the mauritian legal
system. Who the heck goes to court with 12 cases, I mean 12 law suits
against an single member-baded not-for profit entity. Good for Appleby
though, suits are not served freely.

https://afrinic.net/court-cases

Now you have this so called Number Resource Society nrs.help attempting to
recruit AFRINIC resource members to the Lu Heng train. This is about Lu
defending his personal interest as a typical dishonest individual he has
been since 2014 when he lied that he would be investing in AFRICA and use
the millions of IPs in AFRICA. I despise liars especially those who take
the rest of Africa for fools.

While most AFRINIC resource members may not realise it, but its we resource
members who are being sued.

Who is AFRINIC? Or What is AFRINIC? Is it the staff employed by AFRINIC ?
Is it the registered directors? or is it the over 1800 resource members
serving the wider African Internet community?

In one of the suits, Lu Heng wants a purported 1.8 billion and some 50
Million from AFRINIC?  He basically wants our hard earned money which we
have contributed for over 20 years through annual membership fees that this
guy wants to rip us off.

How much has Lu Heng contributed to AFRINIC since the dude showed up in
2013?

What has he done for our region that any soul can admire him for beyond his
fake PR stunts in terms of sponsorships which he calls investment.

Resource members and the community needs to be woke and not fall into his
manipulations.
The Number Resource Society is fake Lu Heng Project. Dont fall for it.

The community and PDWG should stay woke as well. The Larus Foundation is
another Fake Lu Heng Project. Dont fall for it and its so called
ambassadors.

LARUS Ltd will continue to send you email promising to sell you IPv4 or
lease your IPv4 while promising you wealth. Its another Lu Heng Project.
Dont fall for it.


To those who need some IPv4, AFRINIC still has IPv4 thought limited, 

Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Sat, 25 Sep 2021, 03:27 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

> List administrators, are we really going to tolerate Noah calling everyone
> who disagrees with him a “Lu Heng recruit” or similar?
>

Owen,

I didnt know you as one who lacks backbone even though its typical of all
Lu Heng stooges to cry for CoC whenever you guys are corned.


> Noah, contrary to what you’d like to have everyone believe, there are
> people who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng.
>

Well Siyuan Miao through a simple G-lookup has already confirmed that
Cheken and Olerato are your colleagues and both are indeed associated with
Lu Heng thereby confirming my earlier assumption.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message , 
Owen DeLong  wrote:

>Noah, contrary to what you'd like to have everyone believe,
>there are people who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng.

Name three.


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

List administrators, are we really going to tolerate Noah calling everyone who 
disagrees with him a “Lu Heng recruit” or similar?

Noah, contrary to what you’d like to have everyone believe, there are people 
who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng.

Owen


> On Sep 24, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Noah  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:39 Olerato Manyaapelo,  > wrote:
> Dear Noah .
> 
> After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying to 
> portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look pretty 
> logical and not harmful in any way. I’m not sure if this is a personal 
> vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with AFRINIC and 
> create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the 
> misinformation you are talking about.
> 
> 
> Are you another Lu Heng recruit?
> 
> Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Edrich de Lange]

Hi there!

Do you perhaps want to share your “research”?

And how is this “research” influenced by your affiliation with Larus? Or are 
you not affiliated with them?


Kind regards
Edd

On 24 Sep 2021, at 11:39, Olerato Manyaapelo wrote:

> Dear Noah .
>
> After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying to
> portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look
> pretty logical and not harmful in any way. I’m not sure if this is a
> personal vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with
> AFRINIC and create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the
> misinformation you are talking about.
>
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 at 11:31, Noah  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:12 Cheken Chetty,  wrote:
>>
>>> I find this quite offensive given I was just stating an opinion.
>>>
>>
>>
>> But you sounded like a newly recruited Lu Heng mouth piece in your earlier
>> post.
>>
>>
>> I also believe the manner which are are carrying on in is against the code
>>> of conduct, there was a more mature and respectful way to reply to what I
>>> said.
>>>
>>
>> Introduce yourself otherwise nothing to see here.
>>
>> Noah
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>>
> -- 
> C.O Manyaapelo


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:39 Olerato Manyaapelo, 
wrote:

> Dear Noah .
>
> After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying to
> portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look
> pretty logical and not harmful in any way. I’m not sure if this is a
> personal vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with
> AFRINIC and create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the
> misinformation you are talking about.
>


Are you another Lu Heng recruit?

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Olerato Manyaapelo]

Dear Noah .

After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying to
portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look
pretty logical and not harmful in any way. I’m not sure if this is a
personal vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with
AFRINIC and create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the
misinformation you are talking about.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 at 11:31, Noah  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:12 Cheken Chetty,  wrote:
>
>> I find this quite offensive given I was just stating an opinion.
>>
>
>
> But you sounded like a newly recruited Lu Heng mouth piece in your earlier
> post.
>
>
> I also believe the manner which are are carrying on in is against the code
>> of conduct, there was a more mature and respectful way to reply to what I
>> said.
>>
>
> Introduce yourself otherwise nothing to see here.
>
> Noah
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-- 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:12 Cheken Chetty,  wrote:

> I find this quite offensive given I was just stating an opinion.
>


But you sounded like a newly recruited Lu Heng mouth piece in your earlier
post.


I also believe the manner which are are carrying on in is against the code
> of conduct, there was a more mature and respectful way to reply to what I
> said.
>

Introduce yourself otherwise nothing to see here.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Cheken Chetty]

I find this quite offensive given I was just stating an opinion. I also
believe the manner which are are carrying on in is against the code of
conduct, there was a more mature and respectful way to reply to what I said.

Cheken

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 21:01 Ronald F. Guilmette, 
wrote:

> In message <
> camod5rqd2kgbhotuh7xqtya_mmu9sbmcrzjokqtyjpb_uws...@mail.gmail.com>
> Cheken Chetty  wrote:
>
> >I believe this to be a bit distasteful, in my opinion Lu doesn't need to
> >respond to such statements just by pure affiliation. There is also the
> fact
> >that these are mere statements lacking evidence. It could be an attempt to
> >create tension and show the Number Resource Society in a bad light. Even
> me
> >as an individual has seen that the NRS protects the interests of resource
> >members. All in all, I believe that Lu doesn't need to concern himself
> with
> >this.
>
> Yet another anonymous gmail sock puppet, spewing the Lu Heng party line.
>
> Swell.  Just what we needed.
>
> Go away now Mr. Cheken Chetty.  Please crawl back into whatever hole Lu
> Heng
> conjured you out of.  Nobody is impressed.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Mark Tinka]

On 9/23/21 20:55, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:


Owen, take some free advice. Stop saying stupid stuff. You don't have
a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to
say stuff that can so easily be disproven.  The following was already
posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion:


That's a blatant and obvious attempt to scare people, and to spread FUD.


When you work with (and sit behind) computers long enough, more so in a 
year where we haven't seen each other due to what we all know, it's not 
unusual for one to develop a god-like complex, and equate people, their 
intellect, soul and mind, to the way in which they interact with those 
very same computers.


It's great to be "logical" and "sensible", but people, for better or 
worse, have never been, and will never be, that binary.


As you say, there isn't any trust capital left to lose. I would say, 
"there isn't any trust capital left, period".


When all this dust settles and the trees have shaken all their leaves, 
it will be a world of pain, because all of the good people of the 
Internet who are being reduced to binary equations by all of this 
time-wasting, degrading, livelihood-risking actions, will have memories 
the length of the Nile.


Mark.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Mark Tinka]

On 9/23/21 23:41, Noah wrote:


Owen,

Are you Lu Heng? I am addressing Lu Heng and he knows exactly what I 
am talking about.


Let Lu Heng ask and I will perfectly and accurately backup my claim 
about the misinformation he is employing through his Number Resource 
Society beyond just those subtle emails his staff are sending to members.


The day will come, when these actors will find themselves out in the 
cold, needing shelter and cloth from "their fellow" brothers and sisters.


As my Grade 6 English teacher taught me, in constructing future perfect 
tenses, "It will have been a very cold day, indeed".


Mark.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Mark Tinka]

On 9/23/21 21:00, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:


Yet another anonymous gmail sock puppet, spewing the Lu Heng party line.

Swell.  Just what we needed.

Go away now Mr. Cheken Chetty.  Please crawl back into whatever hole Lu Heng
conjured you out of.  Nobody is impressed.


It's a pity Lu Heng is unable to speak, for himself.

Or is it?

Mark.

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

Cheken Chetty,

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 19:18 Cheken Chetty,  wrote:

> Hi Noah
> I believe this to be a bit distasteful, in my opinion Lu doesn't need to
> respond to such statements just by pure affiliation. There is also the fact
> that these are mere statements lacking evidence. It could be an attempt to
> create tension and show the Number Resource Society in a bad light. Even me
> as an individual has seen that the NRS protects the interests of resource
> members. All in all, I believe that Lu doesn't need to concern himself with
> this.
>


You are so clueless and ignorant.

Noah



> Cheken
>
> On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 2:35 PM Noah  wrote:
>
>> Hi Lu Heng
>>
>> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are
>> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource
>> society.
>>
>> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation
>> about AFRINIC.
>>
>> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of
>> Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the
>> motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC
>> resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must
>> join the so called Number Resource Society.
>>
>> Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Noah]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 19:09 Owen DeLong,  wrote:

>
>
> > On Sep 23, 2021, at 05:34 , Noah  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Lu Heng
> >
> > A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are
> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource
> society.
> >
> > The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation
> about AFRINIC.
>
> Care to be specific about what you are referring to as misinformation?
>
> > I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of
> Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the
> motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC
> resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must
> join the so called Number Resource Society.
>
> Speaking of misinformation, I don’t think this is an accurate portrayal of
> what is being said by the NRS.
>

Owen,

Are you Lu Heng? I am addressing Lu Heng and he knows exactly what I
am talking about.

Let Lu Heng ask and I will perfectly and accurately backup my claim about
the misinformation he is employing through his Number Resource Society
beyond just those subtle emails his staff are sending to members.

Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Sep 23, 2021, at 11:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette  
> wrote:
> 
> In message , 
> Noah   wrote:
> 
>> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of
>> Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address
>> the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various
>> AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and
>> they must join the so called Number Resource Society.
> 
> Owen wrote:
> 
>> Speaking of misinformation, I don't think this is an accurate portrayal
>> of what is being said by the NRS.
> 
> 
> Owen, take some free advice.  Stop saying stupid stuff.  You don't have
> a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to
> say stuff that can so easily be disproven.  The following was already
> posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion:
> 
> 
>> �  What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 million 
>> USD in debt?

That’s a valid question and not misinformation.

>> �  Will the African internet be disrupted?

Another valid question and not misinformation.

>> �  Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of the 
>> African Internet Registry?

Another valid question and not misinformation.

>> �  How can the resource members save their operations by transferring their 
>> resources elsewhere?

This is a valid question. You can call it FUD if you want, but it’s a 
legitimate question under the current circumstances.
Calling it misinformation is, in fact, misinformation. Calling it FUD may have 
some legitimacy, but FUD is a relatively
common practice throughout modern society,

So… You claim my statement can easily be disproven, yet you do not disprove it 
(or even come close).

The NRS document isn’t what I would have written and I think it’s a very poorly 
designed campaign and utterly counter-productive
to the goals of the NRS.

However, it doesn’t contain anything I can point to and call misinformation. It 
doesn’t claim that AFRINIC is closing down.

It asks questions. Yes, the questions can be scary, but each and every question 
asked is a very real possible outcome of the
current litigation AFRINIC has brought upon itself by making false allegations 
of contractual breaches and purporting policies
and bylaws to contain requirements that are not present in the documents cited.

> That's a blatant and obvious attempt to scare people, and to spread FUD.

It’s a set of perfectly legitimate questions and an offer of membership in an 
organization intent on resisting the problems
created by the current AFRINIC leadership through a variety of means. Not 
significantly different from the recruiting tactics
of any political party in America (I don’t know how political parties recruit 
in Africa, so I can’t comment meaningfully on 
the similarity or difference there).

Owen


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message 
Cheken Chetty  wrote:

>I believe this to be a bit distasteful, in my opinion Lu doesn't need to
>respond to such statements just by pure affiliation. There is also the fact
>that these are mere statements lacking evidence. It could be an attempt to
>create tension and show the Number Resource Society in a bad light. Even me
>as an individual has seen that the NRS protects the interests of resource
>members. All in all, I believe that Lu doesn't need to concern himself with
>this.

Yet another anonymous gmail sock puppet, spewing the Lu Heng party line.

Swell.  Just what we needed.

Go away now Mr. Cheken Chetty.  Please crawl back into whatever hole Lu Heng
conjured you out of.  Nobody is impressed.


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message , 
Noah   wrote:

> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of
>Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address
>the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various
>AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and
>they must join the so called Number Resource Society.

Owen wrote:

>Speaking of misinformation, I don't think this is an accurate portrayal
>of what is being said by the NRS.


Owen, take some free advice.  Stop saying stupid stuff.  You don't have
a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to
say stuff that can so easily be disproven.  The following was already
posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion:


>�  What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 million 
>USD in debt?
>
>�  Will the African internet be disrupted?
>
>�  Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of the 
>African Internet Registry?
>
>�  How can the resource members save their operations by transferring their 
>resources elsewhere?


That's a blatant and obvious attempt to scare people, and to spread FUD.


Regards,
rfg

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Mark Tinka]

Even though I do, I have no words...

Mark.

On 9/23/21 17:41, Nigel Kukard via Community-Discuss wrote:

On 9/23/21 14:59, Mark Tinka wrote:


On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote:


Hi Lu Heng

A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are
receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number
resource society.

The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation
about AFRINIC.

I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron
of Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can
address the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent
to various AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is
closing down and they must join the so called Number Resource Society.

I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached.

Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted.

Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't
be asked.


Yep  attached another one.

-N

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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Cheken Chetty]

Hi Noah
I believe this to be a bit distasteful, in my opinion Lu doesn't need to
respond to such statements just by pure affiliation. There is also the fact
that these are mere statements lacking evidence. It could be an attempt to
create tension and show the Number Resource Society in a bad light. Even me
as an individual has seen that the NRS protects the interests of resource
members. All in all, I believe that Lu doesn't need to concern himself with
this.

Cheken

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 2:35 PM Noah  wrote:

> Hi Lu Heng
>
> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are
> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource
> society.
>
> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation
> about AFRINIC.
>
> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of
> Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the
> motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC
> resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must
> join the so called Number Resource Society.
>
> Noah
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

IMHO, that shouldn’t be happening and I’ll do what I can to have a stop put to 
it.

Owen


> On Sep 23, 2021, at 07:59 , Mark Tinka  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote:
> 
>> Hi Lu Heng
>> 
>> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are 
>> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource 
>> society.
>> 
>> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about 
>> AFRINIC.
>> 
>> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of Larus 
>> which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the motive 
>> behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC resource 
>> members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must join the so 
>> called Number Resource Society.
> 
> I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached.
> 
> Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted.
> 
> Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't be 
> asked.
> 
> Mark.
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss]

> On Sep 23, 2021, at 05:34 , Noah  wrote:
> 
> Hi Lu Heng
> 
> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are receiving 
> phone calls from your organisation called the number resource society.
> 
> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about 
> AFRINIC.

Care to be specific about what you are referring to as misinformation?

> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of Larus 
> which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the motive 
> behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC resource 
> members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must join the so 
> called Number Resource Society.

Speaking of misinformation, I don’t think this is an accurate portrayal of what 
is being said by the NRS.

Owen


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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Nigel Kukard via Community-Discuss]

On 9/23/21 14:59, Mark Tinka wrote:
>
>
> On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote:
>
>> Hi Lu Heng
>>
>> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are
>> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number
>> resource society.
>>
>> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation
>> about AFRINIC.
>>
>> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron
>> of Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can
>> address the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent
>> to various AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is
>> closing down and they must join the so called Number Resource Society.
>
> I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached.
>
> Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted.
>
> Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't
> be asked.


Yep  attached another one.

-N
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings

 

I am Lethabo Thobejane from Number Resource Society, currently running the 
Number Resource Society South African Remote office. We are kindly requesting 
for your company membership with us.

 

 

The following are agendas are we trying to push:

inter transfer policy that WILL allow one as a member of AFRINIC to be able to 
sell their resources to other RIR and to get value of their money. Policy 
allows organization who have unused IPV4address space or ASN to request 
transfer to a specific qualified recipient in another RIR

value for your asset value:-Of late value for IPs have been going high up to a 
new high at $36 per IPv4 address and AFRINIC does not believe in selling of IPs 
thus one does not get value for their money .

"No. AFRINIC does not sell IP addresses - they are a shared public resource and 
are not for sale. Effective management of this resource is vital to maintain 
the ongoing health of the Internet. If you obtain IP addresses from AFRINIC, 
you will have the right to continue using those addresses provided that you use 
them in accordance with the 
https://wiki.mu.afrinic.net/wiki/index.php?title=Www.afrinic.net/en/library/policies=edit=1
  and provided that your membership remains in good standing. The use of IP 
addresses is subject to membership fees being paid and renewed."




 

Benefits of Transfer Policy:

Due to the current unstable situation of AFRINIC, passing a resource transfer 
policy is urgently needed o give the AFRINIC resource members the option of not 
risking their business and the connectivity of their users. Members should be 
allowed to transfer away from the risks that AFRINIC is putting them through.

The Resource Transfer Policy AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 has reached the 
community consensus and should be ratified by the AFRINIC board so as to serve 
the interests of the resource members

 

The following is a list of questions that you may need to consider

 

 

· What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 
million USD in debt?

· Will the African internet be disrupted?

· Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of 
the African Internet Registry?

· How can the resource members save their operations by transferring 
their resources elsewhere?

 

 

 

I am a member of Afrinic, can I be a member? Absolutely yes

 

How can I become a Member? Check us out on http://www.nrs.help/



 

Cost of becoming a member? Absolutely free to join

 

Your membership details will only remain with us and will not be in the public 
domain even as you have the discussions on the members platform



Regards



Thobejane Lethabo

Relationship Manager 

Number Resource Society

mailto:t.leth...@nrs.help

NRS Data.docx
Description: Binary data
--- End Message ---


NRS Data.docx
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Isabel Odida]

Thank you Noah! This is just so messy of them.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Sep 2021, at 18:00, Mark Tinka  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Lu Heng
>> 
>> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are 
>> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource 
>> society.
>> 
>> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about 
>> AFRINIC.
>> 
>> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of Larus 
>> which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the motive 
>> behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC resource 
>> members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must join the so 
>> called Number Resource Society.
> 
> I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached.
> 
> Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted.
> 
> Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't be 
> asked.
> 
> Mark.
> 
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Mark Tinka]

On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote:


Hi Lu Heng

A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are 
receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number 
resource society.


The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation 
about AFRINIC.


I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of 
Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address 
the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various 
AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and 
they must join the so called Number Resource Society.


I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached.

Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted.

Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't be 
asked.


Mark.
--- Begin Message ---
Dear Mr. Tinka , 



I had a conversation with one of your Rep in Mauritius , Mr.Jason , and he 
referred me to you in regards to IPv4 Address.



Grateful if you could revert back to me.



Thanks

Harvin





 On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 10:14:49 +0400 Harvin Appadoo  
wrote 


Dear Mr.Tinka , 



Hope this email finds you well. I am Harvin , from LARUS Limited. 











I would like to introduce our Services to your Esteem Organization. 



We are a Global Company specialized in IP Management Services , and our core 
business is IPv4 address leasing.  



We provide the below Services : 



 - Leasing of IPv4 Addresses , with competitive pricing , and delpoyment 
within 48hrs.



-  Customizable IP addresses solution



-  Risk less IP source from /24 to /16.











-       No Membership Fees to access our leasing facilities.



We carry out global Geo-location of IPs from any part of the world. 



On the other hand, the contract periods that we handle for the rental of IPv4 
addresses rank between 1month to 8 years, up to the duration of your project. 



Much grateful if you could let me know if you have any IPv4 requirements . 



We can also schedule a Zoom meeting at your most convenience , where we can 
discuss further in details and propose to SEACOM more about our services.



Looking forward to hear from you . 



Kind Regards




Harvin Appadoo 

Senior Consultant  

 LARUS Limited



WhatsApp - +230 52516820









Email  mailto:h.appa...@larus.net

Mobile/WhatsApp tel:+85251338196230 52516820  Office  tel:+852+29888918 



Address  Flat A3 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, HONG KONG SAR

Website : https://www.larus.net/ / https://i.lease/--- End Message ---
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Re: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society

[Grace INGABIRE]

Thanks Noah for informing us.


> On 23 Sep 2021, at 14:34, Noah  wrote:
> 
> Hi Lu Heng
> 
> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are receiving 
> phone calls from your organisation called the number resource society.
> 
> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about 
> AFRINIC.
> 
> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of Larus 
> which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the motive 
> behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC resource 
> members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must join the so 
> called Number Resource Society.
> 
> Noah
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