Re: [CGUYS] new comcast install

2008-10-27 Thread gerald
you want their coax everywhere.

i was surprised when FIOS came in and said that the cable in the house was the 
same as their cable, and did not recable the house.  i presume they would have 
recabled if i requested.

FIOS dug a new trench from about 2-300 feet west to someplace to the far east 
to install my new FIOS.  a lot of it was hand dug.  the comcast box and cable 
was on the far side of the street.  fios came down the public right of way 
section of my yard and put in new cable.  the cable was double(2 cables) and 
bright orange.

when i had 768 at the factory and 3mb at home, i could seldom tell the 
difference.  only in downloading a long file from a really good server.

At 02:48 PM 10/26/2008, you wrote:
questions:
 
i have a wire from pole to house that is over 15 years old just sitting
there unused ...should I make them put a new one up?
i have coaxial cable to the rooms with TVs (2) and room with 2nd TV has the
computer ...will that coax (also about 15+ years old but working fine with
40' tower antenna to analog TVs) be good for the new service or do I need to
insist they drag a new cable for that ?  ...for the internet connection?
I intend to replace my dialup (gets about 23kbps speed usually or worse)
with the cheapest internet they offer (768kbps) ...that's about the speed of
DSL ...that costs $24.95/mo forever ...they also have 6mb/s for
34.95/6mo--42.95 after which I can change to for $1.99 fee later...I intend
to start with the cheapie and see ...comments?
I can get limited TV for $10/mo x 12mo then $14 after and of course can
get more ...I have no HDTVs (hope is to see the bottom of prices this season
as nobody has any cash to spare) and see about upgrades but for now will
keep analog TV (1984 Sony KV25XBR very nice set) and JVC DR-MV1S (VCR/DVDR
dual tuner analog) which are working fine and a little analog screen next to
my computer for now ...any comments?


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Re: [CGUYS] Low battery voltage warning?

2008-10-27 Thread Ranbo
Sorry for the continuing questions on this, but computer is exhibiting new
behavior at start up.  Today, even with all the USB devices pulled, still
got the low system battery voltage warning, and on first few tries nothing
happened when I hit the F2 key to continue, as it says on screen.  Finally,
after turning power strip and computer off and then on, still got the
warning, but the F2 key brought up start menu.  Previously, it seemed that
when I unplugged the USB devices (or most of them) it would start up
normally.

So now I'm really confused - it seems from the feedback here that there are
at least 2 different problems going on, maybe 3:  1)  the external hard
drive power supply (because it only seems to work when it is  plugged into
the computer)  2)  the power supply for the desk top itself and 3) maybe the
CMOS battery?  I haven't yet replaced the CMOS battery, because the more
recent behavior and comments here seemed to be pointing away from that as
the problem.  Should I still try to replace it (I have the replacement from
Dell)?  Am I now faced with having to replace both the Computer's power
supply and the External HD power supply (or the External Hard Drive itself)?

Do I have a ghost in my machine?  Is it haunted - an early Halloween
haunting?  Could the extra draw from the External Hard Drive on the
Desktop's power supply have damaged its power supply or the CMOS battery?
The start up problems did seem to coincide approximately with when I got the
External Drive.

bonus question:  Should I forget the whole thing and find way to buy a
laptop, which, I think, is what I really want anyway?

Thanks,

Randall

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Ranbo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I thought so too.  That should warrant a refund, right?

 Randall


 On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It wouldn't be the first time a power brick failed. If the drive stays
 on with the USB disconnected, the drive power is fine. If not, get a
 new brick for it at Radio Shack or someplace if you have to. No point
 in obsessing over the warranty after the fact. Maybe you can get the
 manufacturer to send another brick.

 Buying at Office Depot is rarely wise. They charge too much and don't
 provide good service.

 I thought that a previous test had confirmed that the power brick was bad.


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Re: [CGUYS] Low battery voltage warning?

2008-10-27 Thread Jordan

I'll vote for the Power supply.

Ranbo wrote:

Sorry for the continuing questions on this, but computer is exhibiting new
behavior at start up.  Today, even with all the USB devices pulled, still
got the low system battery voltage warning, and on first few tries nothing
happened when I hit the F2 key to continue, as it says on screen.  Finally,
after turning power strip and computer off and then on, still got the
warning, but the F2 key brought up start menu.  Previously, it seemed that
when I unplugged the USB devices (or most of them) it would start up
normally.

So now I'm really confused - it seems from the feedback here that there are
at least 2 different problems going on, maybe 3:  1)  the external hard
drive power supply (because it only seems to work when it is  plugged into
the computer)  2)  the power supply for the desk top itself 
  



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[CGUYS] iMove HD 5.0 question

2008-10-27 Thread David Turk
I was trying to work on some clips I just imported,  immediately got a 
Letterboxing-This may take awhile message.  It's been doing that for 3 hours 
now.  I assume this is because I shot the video in 16:9 aspect, but does it 
really take that long (about 30 minutes of video total)?  tia.

   david

David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging Services
Indiana Historical Society
Eugene and Marilyn Glick Indiana History Center
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
(317) 232-4592
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [CGUYS] Low battery voltage warning?

2008-10-27 Thread db
If you have to spend $100 to have someone replace the computers power 
supply... replacing the machine instead is something to consider as a 
better long term investment. 

But you also need to think about how  you are going to get your data off 
of that machine.
Taking out adapter cards will help reduce the load but time is not on 
your side.  With  a failing PS, the situation will continue to get worse.


The sooner the better.

db

Ranbo wrote:

Sorry for the continuing questions on this, but computer is exhibiting new
behavior at start up.  Today, even with all the USB devices pulled, still
got the low system battery voltage warning, and on first few tries nothing
happened when I hit the F2 key to continue, as it says on screen.  Finally,
after turning power strip and computer off and then on, still got the
warning, but the F2 key brought up start menu.  Previously, it seemed that
when I unplugged the USB devices (or most of them) it would start up
normally.

So now I'm really confused - it seems from the feedback here that there are
at least 2 different problems going on, maybe 3:  1)  the external hard
drive power supply (because it only seems to work when it is  plugged into
the computer)  2)  the power supply for the desk top itself and 3) maybe the
CMOS battery?  I haven't yet replaced the CMOS battery, because the more
recent behavior and comments here seemed to be pointing away from that as
the problem.  Should I still try to replace it (I have the replacement from
Dell)?  Am I now faced with having to replace both the Computer's power
supply and the External HD power supply (or the External Hard Drive itself)?

Do I have a ghost in my machine?  Is it haunted - an early Halloween
haunting?  Could the extra draw from the External Hard Drive on the
Desktop's power supply have damaged its power supply or the CMOS battery?
The start up problems did seem to coincide approximately with when I got the
External Drive.

bonus question:  Should I forget the whole thing and find way to buy a
laptop, which, I think, is what I really want anyway?

Thanks,

Randall

On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 10:02 PM, Ranbo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

I thought so too.  That should warrant a refund, right?

Randall


On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



It wouldn't be the first time a power brick failed. If the drive stays
on with the USB disconnected, the drive power is fine. If not, get a
new brick for it at Radio Shack or someplace if you have to. No point
in obsessing over the warranty after the fact. Maybe you can get the
manufacturer to send another brick.


Buying at Office Depot is rarely wise. They charge too much and don't
provide good service.

I thought that a previous test had confirmed that the power brick was bad.


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Re: [CGUYS] Low battery voltage warning?

2008-10-27 Thread Rev. Stewart Marshall

If I remember correctly this is a generic Dell desktop.

I remember hearing somewhere (This MAY NOT BE ACCURATE) that Dell 
used a proprietary wiring setup in their machines.


I belive that there are some adapters that would allow a good 400 
watt power supply (which should cost less than $50.00 to purchase) to be used.


 Stewart

At 01:10 PM 10/27/2008, you wrote:
If you have to spend $100 to have someone replace the computers 
power supply... replacing the machine instead is something to 
consider as a better long term investment.
But you also need to think about how  you are going to get your data 
off of that machine.
Taking out adapter cards will help reduce the load but time is not 
on your side.  With  a failing PS, the situation will continue to get worse.


The sooner the better.

db


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Low battery voltage warning?

2008-10-27 Thread db
Laptops are great for portability.  They are very expensive when taking 
into account durability, lifespan,  repair costs and ooommph.


db

Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

Again I vote for computer power supply.

Question, what kind of power strip is this plugged into and is it 
plugged into some sort of Battery Back up line filter?


Final note if you are not really in love with this machine and need 
portability I vote for a good laptop.


Stewart


At 09:22 AM 10/27/2008, you wrote:
Sorry for the continuing questions on this, but computer is 
exhibiting new
behavior at start up.  Today, even with all the USB devices pulled, 
still
got the low system battery voltage warning, and on first few tries 
nothing
happened when I hit the F2 key to continue, as it says on screen.  
Finally,

after turning power strip and computer off and then on, still got the
warning, but the F2 key brought up start menu.  Previously, it seemed 
that

when I unplugged the USB devices (or most of them) it would start up
normally.

So now I'm really confused - it seems from the feedback here that 
there are

at least 2 different problems going on, maybe 3:  1)  the external hard
drive power supply (because it only seems to work when it is  plugged 
into
the computer)  2)  the power supply for the desk top itself and 3) 
maybe the

CMOS battery?  I haven't yet replaced the CMOS battery, because the more
recent behavior and comments here seemed to be pointing away from 
that as
the problem.  Should I still try to replace it (I have the 
replacement from

Dell)?  Am I now faced with having to replace both the Computer's power
supply and the External HD power supply (or the External Hard Drive 
itself)?


Do I have a ghost in my machine?  Is it haunted - an early Halloween
haunting?  Could the extra draw from the External Hard Drive on the
Desktop's power supply have damaged its power supply or the CMOS 
battery?
The start up problems did seem to coincide approximately with when I 
got the

External Drive.

bonus question:  Should I forget the whole thing and find way to buy a
laptop, which, I think, is what I really want anyway?

Thanks,

Randall


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] iMove HD 5.0 question

2008-10-27 Thread David K Watson

Quite a lot depends on the speed of your machine.  Given that
you are not running the latest version of iMovie (the last iMovie
to call itself HD was version 6 and the most recent version
of iMovie is version 7), I suspect that your experience is not
out of line for your hardware.

I think that iMovie HD 5.0 was current for PowerPC macs mostly
running at less than 1 GHz, and I recall that for them, some
tasks had to be set up to work overnight.

If your Mac will support it, try using iMovie HD 6 (which has
a design similar to iMovie HD 5) or even iMovie 7 (radically
redesigned) to see if they are better optimized.  Apple made
iMovie HD 6 a free download because many users were
disgruntled with the redesign of iMovie 7.

I was trying to work on some clips I just imported,  immediately  
got a Letterboxing-This may take awhile message.  It's been doing  
that for 3 hours now.  I assume this is because I shot the video in  
16:9 aspect, but does it really take that long (about 30 minutes of  
video total)?  tia.



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Re: [CGUYS] iMove HD 5.0 question

2008-10-27 Thread David Turk
David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging
Indiana Historical Society
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

From: Computer Guys Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David K 
Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:55 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] iMove HD 5.0 question

Quite a lot depends on the speed of your machine.  Given that
you are not running the latest version of iMovie (the last iMovie
to call itself HD was version 6 and the most recent version
of iMovie is version 7), I suspect that your experience is not
out of line for your hardware.

I think that iMovie HD 5.0 was current for PowerPC macs mostly
running at less than 1 GHz, and I recall that for them, some
tasks had to be set up to work overnight.

If your Mac will support it, try using iMovie HD 6 (which has
a design similar to iMovie HD 5) or even iMovie 7 (radically
redesigned) to see if they are better optimized.  Apple made
iMovie HD 6 a free download because many users were
disgruntled with the redesign of iMovie 7.

 I was trying to work on some clips I just imported,  immediately
 got a Letterboxing-This may take awhile message.  It's been doing
 that for 3 hours now.  I assume this is because I shot the video in
 16:9 aspect, but does it really take that long (about 30 minutes of
 video total)?  tia.


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Re: [CGUYS] iMove HD 5.0 question

2008-10-27 Thread David Turk
Thanks!  Will give that a try...

  david

David Turk
Manager, Preservation Imaging
Indiana Historical Society
450 W. Ohio St.
Indianapolis, IN  46202
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

From: Computer Guys Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David K 
Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 4:55 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] iMove HD 5.0 question

Quite a lot depends on the speed of your machine.  Given that
you are not running the latest version of iMovie (the last iMovie
to call itself HD was version 6 and the most recent version
of iMovie is version 7), I suspect that your experience is not
out of line for your hardware.

I think that iMovie HD 5.0 was current for PowerPC macs mostly
running at less than 1 GHz, and I recall that for them, some
tasks had to be set up to work overnight.

If your Mac will support it, try using iMovie HD 6 (which has
a design similar to iMovie HD 5) or even iMovie 7 (radically
redesigned) to see if they are better optimized.  Apple made
iMovie HD 6 a free download because many users were
disgruntled with the redesign of iMovie 7.

 I was trying to work on some clips I just imported,  immediately
 got a Letterboxing-This may take awhile message.  It's been doing
 that for 3 hours now.  I assume this is because I shot the video in
 16:9 aspect, but does it really take that long (about 30 minutes of
 video total)?  tia.


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[CGUYS] Flaky PC - BSD's

2008-10-27 Thread Mike Sloane
I rescued a Gateway ATXSTF Performance 1400 machine from the dumpster 
at the town's clean-up day Saturday. The owner said that he thought 
something was wrong with the motherboard. It had a Staples repair 
sticker and another sticker on the back announcing that it was 
refurbished - I suppose those two stickers should have been enough to 
let it go into the dumpster. :-)


First, it wouldn't boot at all - just a series of beeps. I took a chance 
and replaced the battery (I didn't have a 2032, so I threw in a 2025, 
which seems to work OK), and it now boots up, but then would start to 
load WinXP and then re-boot repeatedly. So I pulled every plug, 
connector, card, memory, and even the P4 processor and re-seated them. 
Now it boots up and loads WinXP (home), but if I try to much of 
anything, I get a BSD with the usual cryptic messages - never the same 
ones twice. Thinking that I might have a bad ram (there are two 512 meg 
sticks), I pulled them one at a time, but all that did was slow the 
Windows boot time. It came with another hard drive (apparently the 
trouble started when the owner tried to install a 200 gig drive to 
replace the 100 gig drive), and I will try that next. I really don't 
need another 1.5 GHz Windowz machine, but I am just ornery enough that I 
would like to get it working.


Any (constructive) suggestions?

Mike


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Re: [CGUYS] Flaky PC - BSD's

2008-10-27 Thread Rev. Stewart Marshall

Replace the memory!!!

Memory (DDR single sticks) tend to be flaky and when they have 
problems nothing works right.


Stewart

At 05:25 PM 10/27/2008, you wrote:
I rescued a Gateway ATXSTF Performance 1400 machine from the 
dumpster at the town's clean-up day Saturday. The owner said that he 
thought something was wrong with the motherboard. It had a Staples 
repair sticker and another sticker on the back announcing that it 
was refurbished - I suppose those two stickers should have been 
enough to let it go into the dumpster. :-)


First, it wouldn't boot at all - just a series of beeps. I took a 
chance and replaced the battery (I didn't have a 2032, so I threw in 
a 2025, which seems to work OK), and it now boots up, but then would 
start to load WinXP and then re-boot repeatedly. So I pulled every 
plug, connector, card, memory, and even the P4 processor and 
re-seated them. Now it boots up and loads WinXP (home), but if I try 
to much of anything, I get a BSD with the usual cryptic messages - 
never the same ones twice. Thinking that I might have a bad ram 
(there are two 512 meg sticks), I pulled them one at a time, but all 
that did was slow the Windows boot time. It came with another hard 
drive (apparently the trouble started when the owner tried to 
install a 200 gig drive to replace the 100 gig drive), and I will 
try that next. I really don't need another 1.5 GHz Windowz machine, 
but I am just ornery enough that I would like to get it working.


Any (constructive) suggestions?

Mike


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Low battery voltage warning?

2008-10-27 Thread Tom Piwowar
I remember hearing somewhere (This MAY NOT BE ACCURATE) that Dell 
used a proprietary wiring setup in their machines.

Not accurate for desktops. Laptops are all proprietary to some extent.


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Re: [CGUYS] Flaky PC - BSD's

2008-10-27 Thread Wayne Dernoncourt
Mike Sloane
 I rescued a Gateway ATXSTF Performance 1400 machine from the
 dumpster at the town's clean-up day Saturday. The owner said
 that he thought something was wrong with the motherboard.
 It had a Staples repair sticker and another sticker on the back
 announcing that it was refurbished - I suppose those two
 stickers should have been enough to let it go into the dumpster.
 :-)

Yup, memory would be an easy/fairly cheap thing to test.  If that
doesn't pan out, try SpinRite.  Then again, if you don't already
have it, you should ask yourself whether it's worth the $80 the
s/w costs.

-- 
Take care  | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't
Wayne D.   | supply this, at least not directly
On a clear disk you can seek forever


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Re: [CGUYS] Low battery voltage warning?

2008-10-27 Thread Ranbo
Computer and External HD are both plugged into a Surge Master II power
strip.  Not plugged into a battery back up line filter, as don't even know
what that is.

Not in love with machine, though money for new computer or laptop is
somewhat an issue.  Eventually, want laptop, as would be better for back,
neck and other problems to be able to use laptop in recliner or in better
ergonomic positions than sitting at a desk.

Randall

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Again I vote for computer power supply.

 Question, what kind of power strip is this plugged into and is it plugged
 into some sort of Battery Back up line filter?

 Final note if you are not really in love with this machine and need
 portability I vote for a good laptop.

 Stewart



 At 09:22 AM 10/27/2008, you wrote:

 Sorry for the continuing questions on this, but computer is exhibiting new
 behavior at start up.  Today, even with all the USB devices pulled, still
 got the low system battery voltage warning, and on first few tries nothing
 happened when I hit the F2 key to continue, as it says on screen.
  Finally,
 after turning power strip and computer off and then on, still got the
 warning, but the F2 key brought up start menu.  Previously, it seemed that
 when I unplugged the USB devices (or most of them) it would start up
 normally.

 So now I'm really confused - it seems from the feedback here that there
 are
 at least 2 different problems going on, maybe 3:  1)  the external hard
 drive power supply (because it only seems to work when it is  plugged into
 the computer)  2)  the power supply for the desk top itself and 3) maybe
 the
 CMOS battery?  I haven't yet replaced the CMOS battery, because the more
 recent behavior and comments here seemed to be pointing away from that as
 the problem.  Should I still try to replace it (I have the replacement
 from
 Dell)?  Am I now faced with having to replace both the Computer's power
 supply and the External HD power supply (or the External Hard Drive
 itself)?

 Do I have a ghost in my machine?  Is it haunted - an early Halloween
 haunting?  Could the extra draw from the External Hard Drive on the
 Desktop's power supply have damaged its power supply or the CMOS battery?
 The start up problems did seem to coincide approximately with when I got
 the
 External Drive.

 bonus question:  Should I forget the whole thing and find way to buy a
 laptop, which, I think, is what I really want anyway?

 Thanks,

 Randall


 Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
 Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Low battery voltage warning?

2008-10-27 Thread Ranbo
I'm doing pretty basic stuff; no gaming, for example.  What would I lose
going to a  laptop if don't have exotic needs or for great speed or power?

Randall

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 4:17 PM, db [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I don't think it is model dependent.

 There are BIG tradeoffs in compute power, expense, durability and repair
 costs in exchange for portability when you move from desktop to laptop.

 If you need or value portability, these trade offs can easily be worthwhile
 but you are kidding yourself if you think they don't exist.
 It doesn't depend  on models   ... it depends on the difference in the form
 factor and everything that goes with it.  Shrinking all the engineering from
 a generic AC powered box into a custom miniaturized DC powered package has
 many many inevitable engineering and cost/ expense implications.

 db

 Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

 Greatly depends on manufacturer and models.

 They have gotten much easier to work on and maintain.

 Changing out a keyboard, harddrive, memory battery are easy and quick
 fixes.

 The most expensive repair and usually the most normal repair is the
 display.

 The display on a laptop is not only critical for its use, but also the
 most easily damaged in dropping, hitting etc.

 I have been able to replace keyboards on a Gateway, Compaq and Dell with
 little or no problems.  Same with Harddrives.

 Be careful for the bottom end laptops.  They are cheap and not that
 durable.  Got my youngest a Dell laptop at Walmart during BlackFriday last
 year and we have been very pleased with it.  And he is not that kind to it
 either.

 My Dell is the Latitude series and I am very pleased with it.  (Latitude
 is their business level machines.)

 Stewart


 At 01:25 PM 10/27/2008, you wrote:

 Laptops are great for portability.  They are very expensive when taking
 into account durability, lifespan,  repair costs and ooommph.

 db


 Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
 Ozark, AL  SL 82


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[CGUYS] Selection of Browser to Print Entertainment Coupons

2008-10-27 Thread Alvin Auerbach

To Entertainment.com:

I had a problem printing restaurant coupons on http://www.entertainment.com 
 using Safari 3.1.2 on my iMac running Mac OS 10.5.5.


Your representative told me that your site isn't compatible with my  
browser, and that I should use Internet Explorer.


I exercised an option on Safari that lets me have Safari just tell  
your site that it's an Internet Explorer, even though it's still  
actually Safari.
After that, I had no problem printing the coupon. So there's nothing  
wrong with my browser, it's just that your software limits who it  
wants to deal with. This is akin to saying You can't eat in my  
restaurant because I don't like the color of your skin.


There is no excuse for this type of behavior.

Please change your policy and accept any browser which adheres to  
internet standards.


I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,

 Alvin Auerbach

CC
Distribution


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Re: [CGUYS] Selection of Browser to Print Entertainment Coupons

2008-10-27 Thread Richard P.
They probably won't be able to read your email because you wrote it
with an incompatible program :)

Otherwise, a great response! Looking forward to hear what they say.

Richard P.

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Alvin Auerbach
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 To Entertainment.com:

 I had a problem printing restaurant coupons on
 http://www.entertainment.com using Safari 3.1.2 on my iMac running Mac OS
 10.5.5.

 Your representative told me that your site isn't compatible with my browser,
 and that I should use Internet Explorer.

 I exercised an option on Safari that lets me have Safari just tell your site
 that it's an Internet Explorer, even though it's still actually Safari.
 After that, I had no problem printing the coupon. So there's nothing wrong
 with my browser, it's just that your software limits who it wants to deal
 with. This is akin to saying You can't eat in my restaurant because I don't
 like the color of your skin.

 There is no excuse for this type of behavior.

 Please change your policy and accept any browser which adheres to internet
 standards.

 I look forward to your response.

 Sincerely,

  Alvin Auerbach

 CC
 Distribution


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 **  List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy  **
 **  policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/  **
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