Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Tom, Pardon the ignorant question, is there a direct channel from the controller to the hard drive? Otherwise, you bottlenecks somewhere in the pipe? -PJM - Original Message From: tjpa t...@tjpa.com To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Sent: Tue, November 17, 2009 9:32:20 AM Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what? On Nov 17, 2009, at 7:49 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for answering my questions. Your usage of eSata is a good example of when high rates of data transfer can be of note. My sole point was that, for the most part in daily computer use, it isn't really going to matter or be noticeable. It also demonstrated that WFBs have a tenuous grasp on technology. Why am I not surprised? The transfer rate for the latest FireWire and eSATA versions don't matter much because both are high enough to not be creating the data-transfer bottleneck. That is why faster versions of these standards have been proposed BUT NOT IMPLEMENTED. It would be a waste of effort to do so. If anybody bothered to look at the charts on tomshardware that I linked to they would have seen both FireWire and eSATA drives in mixed order at the top of the charts. This amply demonstrates that FireWire vs eSATA does not matter. Other parts of the data channel are what is limiting the data rate. One example. Both FireWire and SCSI control the data flow in hardware. ATA and eSATA have the CPU managing the data transfer. So FireWire and SCSI can maintain a high data rate irrespective of what is happening in the CPU and ATA and eSATA can't. That may account for the inconsistent eSATA results that were observed. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:58 PM, Paul Meyer wrote: Pardon the ignorant question, is there a direct channel from the controller to the hard drive? Otherwise, you bottlenecks somewhere in the pipe? That would be an incorrect assumption. The FireWire controller usually talks to a SATA or PATA interface on the drive, but it is the FireWire controller that runs the show. The computer can't see past the FireWire controller. This demonstrates very well how one goes wrong by just looking at transfer rates. SATA or PATA are plenty fast, but it is the CPU that slows the data transfer. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
FWIW, our own experiments with eSata were disappointing. First, few mobos actually supported hot swapping - in fact, none of ours did. We could have lived with that, since our old drive caddys require powering down to swap. However, at random times the drives would suddenly slow down, apparently to PIO speeds. This wasn't always obvious, e.g. when just offloading a file. But when an editor was editing video it was obvious. Anyway, we quickly fell back to USB2 just for reliability, and never really tried to figure out what might have been causing the problem. Some have speculated it's the relatively crappy eSata connectors, but I dunno. I figured USB3 would be here soon enough to make the point moot. Little did I know! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:16 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Well this has become more about stopping the spread of misinformation. Some on the list might want to know that ESATA is much faster then FW800 because they could be looking to build something that it would matter. Others, perhaps most don't care because they don't have either one. These aren't superfast rates, these are the standard rates of this tech, none of it is bleeding edge, just what is currently out there. I use eSata on my external drive specifically because I wanted to wait the least amount of time when moving large files to the drive, like ripped dvds. Thanks for answering my questions. Your usage of eSata is a good example of when high rates of data transfer can be of note. My sole point was that, for the most part in daily computer use, it isn't really going to matter or be noticeable. Thus, there is no cause for most folks to become concerned or to feel less than adequate if they only have FireWire or USB2, not that there was any direst suggestion of inadequacy in the first place. However, I still wonder about issues of reliability when dealing with higher writing or reading speeds. It is my understanding that there are very noticeable and wide differences between makes and models of eSata drives in terms of data I/O speeds, with these differences being far more acute than in drives employing FW or USB. I therefore think this indicates that eSata is, in fact, not really a standard at this point. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Nov 17, 2009, at 7:49 AM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for answering my questions. Your usage of eSata is a good example of when high rates of data transfer can be of note. My sole point was that, for the most part in daily computer use, it isn't really going to matter or be noticeable. It also demonstrated that WFBs have a tenuous grasp on technology. Why am I not surprised? The transfer rate for the latest FireWire and eSATA versions don't matter much because both are high enough to not be creating the data- transfer bottleneck. That is why faster versions of these standards have been proposed BUT NOT IMPLEMENTED. It would be a waste of effort to do so. If anybody bothered to look at the charts on tomshardware that I linked to they would have seen both FireWire and eSATA drives in mixed order at the top of the charts. This amply demonstrates that FireWire vs eSATA does not matter. Other parts of the data channel are what is limiting the data rate. One example. Both FireWire and SCSI control the data flow in hardware. ATA and eSATA have the CPU managing the data transfer. So FireWire and SCSI can maintain a high data rate irrespective of what is happening in the CPU and ATA and eSATA can't. That may account for the inconsistent eSATA results that were observed. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Nov 15, 2009, at 3:47 PM, mike wrote: ESATA also..makes firewire look like a red headed step child. I don't think an ESATA cable will stand up to constant unplugging and replugging. Nor does it provide power. It is intended for an entirely different purpose. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Yep, speed. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:50 AM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Nov 15, 2009, at 3:47 PM, mike wrote: ESATA also..makes firewire look like a red headed step child. I don't think an ESATA cable will stand up to constant unplugging and replugging. Nor does it provide power. It is intended for an entirely different purpose. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
I said this myself, this zino thing isn't aimed at the mac mini, different tools for different jobs. The zino doesn't need FW since it has the much faster ESATA. Sure looks like the Mac Mini. There are other form factors they could have used, but making it look like a Mini clone in black sure looks like they directly targeted the Mini. Or it could be simply flattering Apple for yet another good design. eSATA isn't used in peripherals other than storage. USB is a vastly inferior technology for video. How can you effectively edit HD video in real time without FireWire? Where are you going to put yet another power strip for eSATA. FW has its own power. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
So now no one can build a square without it being a mac? Who said anything about editing video, you are missing the point of the zino entirely because you want to compare it to a mac mini. On Nov 16, 2009 3:56 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: I said this myself, this zino thing isn't aimed at the mac mini, different tools for different j... Sure looks like the Mac Mini. There are other form factors they could have used, but making it look like a Mini clone in black sure looks like they directly targeted the Mini. Or it could be simply flattering Apple for yet another good design. eSATA isn't used in peripherals other than storage. USB is a vastly inferior technology for video. How can you effectively edit HD video in real time without FireWire? Where are you going to put yet another power strip for eSATA. FW has its own power. * ** List info, subscrip... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Many consumer Camcorders are no longer using tape but SDHC cards for storage. This negates firewire in that you take the card out and directly transfer the file created over to the system. Others are using mini-DVD's to save video files. For high end Firewire will still be the preferred but you will not see the zino used by pros. Stewart At 04:42 PM 11/16/2009, you wrote: Sure looks like the Mac Mini. There are other form factors they could have used, but making it look like a Mini clone in black sure looks like they directly targeted the Mini. Or it could be simply flattering Apple for yet another good design. eSATA isn't used in peripherals other than storage. USB is a vastly inferior technology for video. How can you effectively edit HD video in real time without FireWire? Where are you going to put yet another power strip for eSATA. FW has its own power. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Won't see a mac mini either. On Nov 16, 2009 4:11 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Many consumer Camcorders are no longer using tape but SDHC cards for storage. This negates firewire in that you take the card out and directly transfer the file created over to the system. Others are using mini-DVD's to save video files. For high end Firewire will still be the preferred but you will not see the zino used by pros. Stewart At 04:42 PM 11/16/2009, you wrote: Sure looks like the Mac Mini. There are other form factors the... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Nov 16, 2009, at 5:42 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: eSATA isn't used in peripherals other than storage. USB is a vastly inferior technology for video. How can you effectively edit HD video in real time without FireWire? Where are you going to put yet another power strip for eSATA. FW has its own power. Oh look, eSATA is not faster than FireWire... Transfer Rate - Review Tom's Hardware : Seagate 500 GB External Hard Drive Goes eSATA http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seagate-500-gb-external-hard-drive-esata,1307-5.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Nov 16, 2009, at 6:00 PM, mike wrote: So now no one can build a square without it being a mac? Looks like a painted Mac Mini. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
For mass storage eSATA seems to be the better technology. For Video transfer from an outside source Firewire was the best. But as I said earlier for consumers that is no longer the case. Stewart At 05:57 PM 11/16/2009, you wrote: Oh look, eSATA is not faster than FireWire... Transfer Rate - Review Tom's Hardware : Seagate 500 GB External Hard Drive Goes eSATA http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seagate-500-gb-external-hard-drive-esata,1307-5.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
800Mbps is often faster than 3.0Gbps...oh wait On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 4:57 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Nov 16, 2009, at 5:42 PM, b_s-wilk wrote: eSATA isn't used in peripherals other than storage. USB is a vastly inferior technology for video. How can you effectively edit HD video in real time without FireWire? Where are you going to put yet another power strip for eSATA. FW has its own power. Oh look, eSATA is not faster than FireWire... Transfer Rate - Review Tom's Hardware : Seagate 500 GB External Hard Drive Goes eSATA http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seagate-500-gb-external-hard-drive-esata,1307-5.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Indeed, it's square so it's a mac mini...and so is the Wii...and some of those low end dvd players, they are squares. All of em look like mac minis. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 4:59 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Nov 16, 2009, at 6:00 PM, mike wrote: So now no one can build a square without it being a mac? Looks like a painted Mac Mini. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Well FW is the best because it exists on many HD cams, so obviously you need that if you are transferring data from an HD cam. But to say this translates to FW being faster is incorrect. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: For mass storage eSATA seems to be the better technology. For Video transfer from an outside source Firewire was the best. But as I said earlier for consumers that is no longer the case. Stewart At 05:57 PM 11/16/2009, you wrote: Oh look, eSATA is not faster than FireWire... Transfer Rate - Review Tom's Hardware : Seagate 500 GB External Hard Drive Goes eSATA http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seagate-500-gb-external-hard-drive-esata,1307-5.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
One of the reasons they are making PC's like this is that the board manufacturers have finally gotten rid of the mentality of oblong. I have seen some interesting designs for PC's in the last little while as they no longer need to follow the standard design. Expect more stuff like this in the future. Stewart At 06:10 PM 11/16/2009, you wrote: Indeed, it's square so it's a mac mini...and so is the Wii...and some of those low end dvd players, they are squares. All of em look like mac minis. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Nov 16, 2009, at 7:04 PM, mike wrote: 800Mbps is often faster than 3.0Gbps...oh wait You don't know how to read specs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Or you need specs tor ead. Stewart At 07:24 PM 11/16/2009, you wrote: On Nov 16, 2009, at 7:04 PM, mike wrote: 800Mbps is often faster than 3.0Gbps...oh wait You don't know how to read specs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Well we've learned over time Tom's reality is different from others. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: Or you need specs tor ead. Stewart At 07:24 PM 11/16/2009, you wrote: On Nov 16, 2009, at 7:04 PM, mike wrote: 800Mbps is often faster than 3.0Gbps...oh wait You don't know how to read specs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 6:59 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Nov 16, 2009, at 6:00 PM, mike wrote: So now no one can build a square without it being a mac? Looks like a painted Mac Mini. More like a stack of two or three minis. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
My tower computer is 15 or so mac minis. On Nov 16, 2009 7:35 PM, John Duncan Yoyo johnduncany...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 6:59 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Nov 16, 2009, at 6:00 PM, mike wrote: So now no one can build a square without it being a ... More like a stack of two or three minis. -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscript... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Nov 16, 2009, at 8:59 PM, mike wrote: Well we've learned over time Tom's reality is different from others. I know Stewart knows how to read and interpret specs, but would rather follow the party line than correct Mike. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
No was making a pun. I stated earlier. eSATA is great for Hard Drives etc. Firewire is still best for video. However many of the consumer CamCorders are using SDHC cards so they just pop in and transfer over. Stewart At 09:00 PM 11/16/2009, you wrote: On Nov 16, 2009, at 8:59 PM, mike wrote: Well we've learned over time Tom's reality is different from others. I know Stewart knows how to read and interpret specs, but would rather follow the party line than correct Mike. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Ok, one more try. You do realize the 800 in FW800 actually *means* something right? Here is a very nice, clean diagram from Wikipedia...but I'm sure you'll say they are just following some party line... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA#SATA_in_comparison_to_other_buses Soon to come perhaps may be FW3200 which is faster then current ESATA speeds, although we have yet to see any mac with this spec. Also if we are going to include soon to be or perhaps not so soon to be released specs, we would have to include USB 3 which toasts both ESATA and FW3200. That said, this conversation was clearly about FW800 and ESATA, the current available techs on the market. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 8:00 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: On Nov 16, 2009, at 8:59 PM, mike wrote: Well we've learned over time Tom's reality is different from others. I know Stewart knows how to read and interpret specs, but would rather follow the party line than correct Mike. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:21 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Soon to come perhaps may be FW3200 which is faster then current ESATA speeds, although we have yet to see any mac with this spec. Also if we are going to include soon to be or perhaps not so soon to be released specs, we would have to include USB 3 which toasts both ESATA and FW3200. For the most part, is any of this quibbling about all these super fast speeds really all that meaningful to us? Is this primarily esoteric nitpicking? As in writing to CDs and DVDs, is there a potential downside when attempting to write data to hard drives at super fast rates? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Well this has become more about stopping the spread of misinformation. Some on the list might want to know that ESATA is much faster then FW800 because they could be looking to build something that it would matter. Others, perhaps most don't care because they don't have either one. These aren't superfast rates, these are the standard rates of this tech, none of it is bleeding edge, just what is currently out there. I use ESATA on my external drive specifically because I wanted to wait the least amount of time when moving large files to the drive, like ripped dvds. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:44 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:21 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote: Soon to come perhaps may be FW3200 which is faster then current ESATA speeds, although we have yet to see any mac with this spec. Also if we are going to include soon to be or perhaps not so soon to be released specs, we would have to include USB 3 which toasts both ESATA and FW3200. For the most part, is any of this quibbling about all these super fast speeds really all that meaningful to us? Is this primarily esoteric nitpicking? As in writing to CDs and DVDs, is there a potential downside when attempting to write data to hard drives at super fast rates? Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Dell Inspiron Zino HD Desktop http://www.dell.com/us/en/corp/desktops/inspiron-zino-hd/pd.aspx?refid=inspiron-zino-hds=corp Innovation means picking a different color than Apple's case. Has fewer ports too. I guess Intel was not providing any reference designs with more ports. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Fewer ports than what? This seems targeted at the mac mini, it starts out at half the cost? It has esata...no esata on mac mini. It has HDMI and full 1080p out...nope not for mac mini. It has a blu ray drive...sorry, none for ANY mac yet. The mac mini is targeted as an expensive nettop computer for someone doing email, this dell is targeted as a low end media device that still offers some higher end features like full HD. To be honest, I don't think there is a mac comparison to this, apple doesn't offer a media box of this caliber yet. Maybe next year. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:37 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Dell Inspiron Zino HD Desktop http://www.dell.com/us/en/corp/desktops/inspiron-zino-hd/pd.aspx?refid=inspiron-zino-hds=corp Innovation means picking a different color than Apple's case. Has fewer ports too. I guess Intel was not providing any reference designs with more ports. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
And pretty loaded still less than 1000. I priced one out with a good complement of stuff (1 TB drive, 4 GB memory) and it was only 733. With the advent of SDHC card Video cams no longer a need for firewire. Not a bad little cube. No longer the need for these big old ugly computer desks. Stewart At 02:14 PM 11/15/2009, you wrote: Fewer ports than what? This seems targeted at the mac mini, it starts out at half the cost? It has esata...no esata on mac mini. It has HDMI and full 1080p out...nope not for mac mini. It has a blu ray drive...sorry, none for ANY mac yet. The mac mini is targeted as an expensive nettop computer for someone doing email, this dell is targeted as a low end media device that still offers some higher end features like full HD. To be honest, I don't think there is a mac comparison to this, apple doesn't offer a media box of this caliber yet. Maybe next year. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:37 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Dell Inspiron Zino HD Desktop http://www.dell.com/us/en/corp/desktops/inspiron-zino-hd/pd.aspx?refid=inspiron-zino-hds=corp Innovation means picking a different color than Apple's case. Has fewer ports too. I guess Intel was not providing any reference designs with more ports. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
ESATA also..makes firewire look like a red headed step child. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote: And pretty loaded still less than 1000. I priced one out with a good complement of stuff (1 TB drive, 4 GB memory) and it was only 733. With the advent of SDHC card Video cams no longer a need for firewire. Not a bad little cube. No longer the need for these big old ugly computer desks. Stewart At 02:14 PM 11/15/2009, you wrote: Fewer ports than what? This seems targeted at the mac mini, it starts out at half the cost? It has esata...no esata on mac mini. It has HDMI and full 1080p out...nope not for mac mini. It has a blu ray drive...sorry, none for ANY mac yet. The mac mini is targeted as an expensive nettop computer for someone doing email, this dell is targeted as a low end media device that still offers some higher end features like full HD. To be honest, I don't think there is a mac comparison to this, apple doesn't offer a media box of this caliber yet. Maybe next year. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 12:37 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote: Dell Inspiron Zino HD Desktop http://www.dell.com/us/en/corp/desktops/inspiron-zino-hd/pd.aspx?refid=inspiron-zino-hds=corp Innovation means picking a different color than Apple's case. Has fewer ports too. I guess Intel was not providing any reference designs with more ports. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Oh, look! The Inspiron Zino has a *tray-loading* DVD burner! Of course, it's Inspiron, not Latitude. Why it's like a multi-color Mac Mini with a huge fan! Zino has no FireWire; Mini does and can be easily modded to use eSATA. The Mini can connect to HDMI with a DVI-HDMI cable, so direct HDMI and HD is no big deal, but you have to use your own speakers, as if a monitor with speakers sounds all that good. Or you can connect either one to a big screen LCD/LED/plasma TV. And who wants Blu-Ray anyway? Get a life! I'll take the Mac Mini over this one any day--and add color myself--or not. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Borrowing the Z OS from M$ and the design from Apple gets us what?
Who wants BluRay? Millions...Millions of people. All those yahoos who buy big screen tvs. I said this myself, this zino thing isn't aimed at the mac mini, different tools for different jobs. The zino doesn't need FW since it has the much faster ESATA. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:24 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Oh, look! The Inspiron Zino has a *tray-loading* DVD burner! Of course, it's Inspiron, not Latitude. Why it's like a multi-color Mac Mini with a huge fan! Zino has no FireWire; Mini does and can be easily modded to use eSATA. The Mini can connect to HDMI with a DVI-HDMI cable, so direct HDMI and HD is no big deal, but you have to use your own speakers, as if a monitor with speakers sounds all that good. Or you can connect either one to a big screen LCD/LED/plasma TV. And who wants Blu-Ray anyway? Get a life! I'll take the Mac Mini over this one any day--and add color myself--or not. Betty * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
