Re: [CGUYS] Another...or the first..Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
CEO of Cononical in an interview with The Register said windows 7 'looked great' after spending several hours with it. It gets even better. Mac friendly, WSJ tech columnist Walt Mossberg fawns over Windows 7 as well. The title says it all: Even in Test Form, Windows 7 Leaves Vista in the Dust Just a taste: In many respects, Windows 7 isn't a radical shift from Vista, but is more of an attempt to fix Vista's main flaws. It shares the same underlying architecture, and retains graphical touches like translucent Window borders. But it introduces some key new navigation and ease-of-use features, plus scores of small usability and performance improvements -- too many to list here. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123258632983004629.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Another...or the first..Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
OH NO! Even Mossberg can be bought by the evil empire! What are we gonna do now, Jim? Put'er into warp drive, the whole place has been assimilated! On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com wrote: CEO of Cononical in an interview with The Register said windows 7 'looked great' after spending several hours with it. It gets even better. Mac friendly, WSJ tech columnist Walt Mossberg fawns over Windows 7 as well. The title says it all: Even in Test Form, Windows 7 Leaves Vista in the Dust Just a taste: In many respects, Windows 7 isn't a radical shift from Vista, but is more of an attempt to fix Vista's main flaws. It shares the same underlying architecture, and retains graphical touches like translucent Window borders. But it introduces some key new navigation and ease-of-use features, plus scores of small usability and performance improvements -- too many to list here. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123258632983004629.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
No, what bothers me is your insistence that this review is unbiased and even-handed, and that you give totally different treatment to positive and negative reviews (negative reviews: honest; positive reviews: suspicious). And now you think legitimate criticism based on actual experience is no different from Microsoft has to herd users to Windows 7. The statement about herding is as controversial as writing that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Everybody does it. It is a good business practice. Why do you insist that it has to be hush hush? Positive reviews are not necessairly suspicious. Reviews full of marketing puffery are suspicious. Reviews that are only positive are suspicious. Reviews that defy common sense are suspicious. Reviewers who only fawn are suspicious. Reviews that discuss both positives and negatives are not prima facie suspicious. Reviews with an error or two are regretable, but not suspicious. This is especially true for reviews of beta software. Reviews with serious errors are suspicious. Claiming that a review is biased because it is not uniformly positive is suspicious. I think you need to read more broadly and recalibrate your sense of reality. What they do NOT do is ascribe any meanings and motivations to what MS is doing. So what you object to is thinking and analysis? So it is okay to tell the lobster that the temperature in the pot is 90 degrees, but it is not okay to tell the lobster: I think they are preparing to cook you. From the perspective of the cook I see your point, but I think we are all more lobsters than cooks. The lobster does not stand a chance without some thinking and analysis. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Chris Dunford You cut off the rest of my sentence so I would appear unreasonable. snip It's very, very clear: negative reviews are clear-eyed, even-handed, and accurate. Positive reviews are fawning, suspicious, and written by M$'s minions. I get it. cue Fox news... -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly Measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
The statement about herding is as controversial as writing that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Everybody does it. It is a good business practice. Why do you insist that it has to be hush hush? And why do you insist that I've said things that I never said? I don't, and have not, said that it has to be hush-hush. What I have said is simply that this kind of language is not used in an unbiased review. An objective reviewer would NEVER say, Microsoft has to herd more PC users into the latest version of Windows. He would instead say, Microsoft clearly has a need to convert more PC users to the latest version of Windows or something like that. And, once again, this is OK. He doesn't have to be objective. The reader just has to be clever enough to discern the ax he's grinding from the language he's using. Claiming that a review is biased because it is not uniformly positive is suspicious. Anyone who made even a token attempt to understand what I wrote will know that this is not even close to anything I said. So what you object to is thinking and analysis? FOR THE LAST TIME, I object to NOTHING in the article. I object to your characterization of it as an objective review. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
And why do you insist that I've said things that I never said? I don't, and have not, said that it has to be hush-hush. What I have said is simply that this kind of language is not used in an unbiased review. An objective reviewer would NEVER say, Microsoft has to herd more PC users into the latest version of Windows. He would instead say, Microsoft clearly has a need to convert more PC users to the latest version of Windows or something like that. So it is just language? I have to write that's a bunch of doodoo and not that's a bunch of crap. That makes such a big difference. As a lobster I would write that's a bunch of mustard. FOR THE LAST TIME, I object to NOTHING in the article. I object to your characterization of it as an objective review. FOR THE LAST TIME, it is an even-handed review. You just don't recognize it because you have read too much that is severely biased. So to you fawning seems normal and normal seems outrageously unfair. It is important to watch out for personal bias. Without a firm grip on reality one starts to make really bad judgements. You start to believe that the Zune is an iPod killer or you show up in Baghdad expecting roses and you get IEDs. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
What seems to be forgotten is that weather or not it is even handed is an opinion. Not fact. On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: FOR THE LAST TIME, it is an even-handed review. You just don't recognize it because you have read too much that is severely biased. So to you fawning seems normal and normal seems outrageously unfair. It is important to watch out for personal bias. Without a firm grip on reality one starts to make really bad judgements. You start to believe that the Zune is an iPod killer or you show up in Baghdad expecting roses and you get IEDs. -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
So it is just language? I have to write that's a bunch of doodoo and not that's a bunch of crap. That makes such a big difference. Forget it. You'll either never get it or you're willfully misrepresenting me. Either way, I'm done. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
What seems to be forgotten is that weather or not it is even handed is an opinion. Not fact. No, it is a judgement. Some people have good judgement and some people have poor judgement. The purpose of this exercise is to improve the judgement of some of our members. If you think it is an opinion it suggests that you have poor judgement. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Too true, too true. On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: What seems to be forgotten is that weather or not it is even handed is an opinion. Not fact. No, it is a judgement. Some people have good judgement and some people have poor judgement. The purpose of this exercise is to improve the judgement of some of our members. If you think it is an opinion it suggests that you have poor judgement. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Another...or the first..Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
CEO of Cononical in an interview with The Register said windows 7 'looked great' after spending several hours with it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Another...or the first..Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
CEO of C[a]nonical in an interview with The Register said windows 7 'looked great' after spending several hours with it. Just more fawning. The founder of Ubuntu is another MS minion, apparently. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
This is why you shouldn't get reviews of MS products from people who don't actually use the product Yeah. Here's another one I noticed late last night, where he's talking about the taskbar: ... actually launching an app or document still requires navigating the Start Menu. No, it doesn't. He either hasn't used it or didn't try very hard. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
This is good reading for WFBs because it demonstrates what a knowledgeable, even-handed review looks like. Of course they will scribble all over it trying to turn a sow's ear into a purse. It is beyond understanding how you can think that a review loaded with charged language like herding users is even-handed, or how you can think that a review containing glaring errors is knowledgeable. It is neither, as you would have to admit if you hadn't totally ignored the content of the responses posted here. It's as if you didn't even bother to read them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Tom should try hearing a real clear eyed review, Leo Laporte has some good points both positive and negative on win7 on his various podcasts. This guy is a *serious* mac user too, not a WFB, whatever that is. I think Tom called a mac user a WFB earlier so I'm not too clear. This reviewer from Appleinsider has either not used win7 or didn't for very long. Or just made up stuff to fit his own perception. Other then that a very comprehensive review. On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Reid Katan ka...@his.com wrote: Quoting Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com: A clear-eyed review from AppleInsider. Right. You can practically smell the objectivity in this sentence: Microsoft has to herd more PC users into the latest version of Windows ... so it can actively leverage its monopoly position to prevent competition Sentences like that are the hallmark of an unbiased, clear-eyed review. I did not write fawning review. I did not write paid for review. This is good reading for WFBs because it demonstrates what a knowledgeable, even-handed review looks like. Of course they will scribble all over it trying to turn a sow's ear into a purse. Okay, Tom, it's time to take off the Apple-colored glasses. . . and finally to distance itself from in the I'm not a Mac, just a generic PC ads. Post a link to the ad that people are saying they're just a generic PC. Before Microsoft had released any real details on the new operating system, some fan sites initially described Windows 7 as being 'completely rewritten from the ground up,' So people got a little ahead of themselves. Can't blame MS for that. The Taskbar handles half of the features of the Mac OS X Dock; actually launching an app or document still requires navigating the Start Menu. How about Desktop icons. How about Quicklaunch icons (which are actually pictured *right above this statement*. How about keyboard shortcuts (something I still haven't figured out in OSX). Have you even used Win7? I have, and there are things about it that I don't like. One being the need for an admin password to delete shortcut icons from the Desktop. What's up with that?! It won't wake up from screensaver, which I think I can blame on the (Vista) WiFi driver I used. It was okay before that, and I haven't tried turning it off to see. Katan * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Make sure you support your local CarbonONset programs! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
The Taskbar handles half of the features of the Mac OS X Dock; actually launching an app or document still requires navigating the Start Menu. How about Desktop icons. How about Quicklaunch icons (which are actually pictured *right above this statement*. How about keyboard shortcuts (something I still haven't figured out in OSX). Not only that, he's just wrong when he says that you can't launch from the taskbar. Unlike the old taskbar, it isn't just for open apps. You can drag your favorite apps from the Start menu to the taskbar, then launch from there, access jump lists, etc. This is why the old QuickLaunch taskbar is turned off by default. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
he's just wrong when he says that you can't launch from the taskbar. True, he got that wrong. One small detail that you will harp on forever. He may have missed it or his computer may have a problem. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Okay, Tom, it's time to take off the Apple-colored glasses. . . Post a link to the ad that people are saying they're just a generic PC. I saw it on microsoft.com and later on network TV. There was a good amount of press about how it was replacing the terrible Seinfeld ads. Have you erased that from your brain? Do you remember the sorry Gates-Seinfeld ads? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Herding users is not charged language, it is an even-handed, I give up. If you think this is an objective, unbiased, even-handed review there is nothing left that I can say. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Herding users is not charged language, it is an even-handed, I give up. If you think this is an objective, unbiased, even-handed review there is nothing left that I can say. You cut off the rest of my sentence so I would appear unreasonable. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Tom Piwowar Okay, Tom, it's time to take off the Apple-colored glasses. . . Post a link to the ad that people are saying they're just a generic PC. I saw it on microsoft.com and later on network TV. There was a good amount of press about how it was replacing the terrible Seinfeld ads. Have you erased that from your brain? Do you remember the sorry Gates-Seinfeld ads? What news shows ran stories about the MS ads? Did they compare the MS ads to the Mac-PC ads? I thought the MS ads were the target of lots of criticism. The info I get from Leo Laporte says that Windows Vista wasn't bad in itself, the user experience was bad because of some stupid design decisions (supposedly they made parts (the UAC??) of it deliberately annoying, I no longer remember the reasoning), but it was better on security, etc. The part that everyone remembered though was the really annoying part and skipped everything else that was really good (from a security standpoint). One set of rumors has Win7 running on a netbook - time will tell. -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly I've never seen so damn many Indians. --G.A. Custer * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Leo is running his on a netbook, no rumor needed. Runs fine. On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Wayne Dernoncourt way...@panix.comwrote: One set of rumors has Win7 running on a netbook - time will tell. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
One set of rumors has Win7 running on a netbook - time will tell. I can also confirm that it runs fine on a Dell netbook (1GB RAM, 16GB drive). * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
You cut off the rest of my sentence so I would appear unreasonable. Sigh. Fine, here's the full quote: Herding users is not charged language, it is an even-handed, accurate description. That is what vendors do. Apple does it. Google does it. Macy's does it. MS does it. To deny it is just being starry-eyed. Makes no difference; you still miss the point. The point is not what Google, Apple, Macy's, or MS do; it is the tone and the language the writer uses. An unbiased reporter would never, EVER use a phrase like Microsoft has to herd users. Or say that Win7 has the release number 7000.0 to impress downloaders. Or that the entire purpose of the public beta is to get early adopter enthusiasts talking about the new product. An NYT or Post writer saying this kind of stuff in a supposedly objective article would probably get fired on the spot. Now, the guy is entitled to use whatever tone and language he wants. He can be biased. He can hate Windows and MS to hell and back. None of this is the problem. It's his article; he's entitled to his views and opinions; and he can write it as he pleases. The problem is your characterization of this as, apparently, the one honest review. There's no WAY that this is an unbiased review; the tone and the language prove it, as does the source (btw, here's a great place to get unbiased reviews of Ford products: http://www.toyotanation.com). It's very, very clear: negative reviews are clear-eyed, even-handed, and accurate. Positive reviews are fawning, suspicious, and written by M$'s minions. I get it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
One set of rumors has Win7 running on a netbook - time will tell. If you have two gigs of memory in many netbooks, Win7 appears to walk. Its rating system though will make it a 1 or less and many features won't be available. That being said, it's a major improvement over Vista which can so slow most netbook processors that it's a joke. That being said, there are still some bumps in the road to win7 working. It's missing drivers for lots of common NICs (the Sis900 is especially galling, it's way too common onboard to have missed) and bluntly on a netbook, be prepared to already have the drivers for either your wireless chip or NIC already on the computer, or in an external DVD/CD. It's an irony that the easiest way to install Win7 on a netbook is via a net install started from XP (lot of Code 5 UDF errors with Intel Atom based netbooks apparently for DVD installs) and then losing the ability to get something done until drivers for either the NIC or wifi setup are found (hint the XP ones work). All of this being said, Ubuntu is a much better choice for netbooks presently, even XP is. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Hey, tom, where can I get somma dem cool apple colored glasses ?? ...lemme see !! -Original Message- From: Reid Katan [mailto:ka...@his.com] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review Quoting Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com: A clear-eyed review from AppleInsider. Right. You can practically smell the objectivity in this sentence: Microsoft has to herd more PC users into the latest version of Windows ... so it can actively leverage its monopoly position to prevent competition Sentences like that are the hallmark of an unbiased, clear-eyed review. I did not write fawning review. I did not write paid for review. This is good reading for WFBs because it demonstrates what a knowledgeable, even-handed review looks like. Of course they will scribble all over it trying to turn a sow's ear into a purse. Okay, Tom, it's time to take off the Apple-colored glasses. . . and finally to distance itself from in the I'm not a Mac, just a generic PC ads. Post a link to the ad that people are saying they're just a generic PC. Before Microsoft had released any real details on the new operating system, some fan sites initially described Windows 7 as being 'completely rewritten from the ground up,' So people got a little ahead of themselves. Can't blame MS for that. The Taskbar handles half of the features of the Mac OS X Dock; actually launching an app or document still requires navigating the Start Menu. How about Desktop icons. How about Quicklaunch icons (which are actually pictured *right above this statement*. How about keyboard shortcuts (something I still haven't figured out in OSX). Have you even used Win7? I have, and there are things about it that I don't like. One being the need for an admin password to delete shortcut icons from the Desktop. What's up with that?! It won't wake up from screensaver, which I think I can blame on the (Vista) WiFi driver I used. It was okay before that, and I haven't tried turning it off to see. Katan * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Quoting Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com: Okay, Tom, it's time to take off the Apple-colored glasses. . . Post a link to the ad that people are saying they're just a generic PC. I saw it on microsoft.com and later on network TV. There was a good amount of press about how it was replacing the terrible Seinfeld ads. Link. At least *one* of the ads that have people saying they're just a generic PC You miss that? JUST A GENERIC PC Have you erased that from your brain? Do you remember the sorry Gates-Seinfeld ads? Yes I have. They were stupid ads (not much more so than the I'm a PC ads). I never saw it on TV, I had to follow a link posted here on the list to see it. Perhaps MS wouldn't have to lay off so many workers if they didn't waste their money on it. Good luck finding that link. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
I'm not missing any point. You need to recalibrate. You are too accustomed to fawning stories in fanzines and propaganda produced by MS itself. You get all hyped up when you read something that is even-handed and contains good analysis of what MS is up to. When the Times' Pogue or the Post's Pegoraro write reviews they certainly do write in this insightful way. You on the other hand come off like Carl Rove explaining the sunny side of water boarding. Makes no difference; you still miss the point. The point is not what Google, Apple, Macy's, or MS do; it is the tone and the language the writer uses. An unbiased reporter would never, EVER use a phrase like Microsoft has to herd users. Or say that Win7 has the release number 7000.0 to impress downloaders. Or that the entire purpose of the public beta is to get early adopter enthusiasts talking about the new product. An NYT or Post writer saying this kind of stuff in a supposedly objective article would probably get fired on the spot. Pogue writes... For an operating system that took five years to create, Windows Vista¹s reputation went down in flames amazingly quickly. Not since Microsoft Bob has anything from the software giant drawn so much contempt and derision. Not every company lives to see the day when its customers beg, plead and sign petitions to bring back the previous version of its flagship product. Pegoraro writes... In a week that I've been using Vista full-time on two laptops and one desktop, I've seen many things that I hated in XP: error messages that don't offer any advice on how to correct them, programs that inexplicably fail, annoying stalls and one blue screen of death crash. (At least I didn't have to stare at the same old stupid hourglass icon while the computer chewed its cud -- Vista bores you with a spinning blue circle instead.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
I'm not missing any point. You need to recalibrate. You are too accustomed to fawning stories in fanzines and propaganda produced by MS itself. You get all hyped up when you read something that is even- handed and contains good analysis of what MS is up to. When the Times' Pogue or the Post's Pegoraro write reviews they certainly do write in this insightful way As my kids would say, SRSLY? These quotes are not at all the same as what I'm talking about. They are talking about their own experiences and the problems they saw. That's fine. That's what you're supposed to do in a review. What they do NOT do is ascribe any meanings and motivations to what MS is doing. There are no equivalents to herding customers, assigning release numbers that will impress downloaders, offering public betas so that early adopters will talk it up, or leveraging monopoly positions to prevent competition. They are simply describing what THEY experienced and what THEY thought about it. That is not remotely comparable to what I'm talking about. When you say, You get all hyped up when you read something that is even-handed and contains good analysis of what MS is up to, that's just wrong. You'll note that I have not complained about the review at all, other than to point out the two errors of fact. He's entitled to his opinions--a number of which I happen to agree with--and even to his guesses. He's entitled to write about them however he wants. I don't have any problems with the review. No, what bothers me is your insistence that this review is unbiased and even-handed, and that you give totally different treatment to positive and negative reviews (negative reviews: honest; positive reviews: suspicious). And now you think legitimate criticism based on actual experience is no different from Microsoft has to herd users to Windows 7. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
A long, thorough, and clear-eyed review of Windows 7 worth reading... Microsoft's goal with Windows 7 is to lift Vista's derailed train and put it back on the tracks. Windows 7 itself is internally called Windows 6.1, essentially Vista Service Pack 2 (Microsoft is also preparing a scaled down Vista SP2 for delivery shortly before Windows 7 is released). Microsoft's executives have made no secret of the fact that Windows 7 is an incremental improvement to Windows Vista, with CEO Steve Ballmer calling it Windows Vista, a lot better, and saying, Windows 7 is Windows Vista with cleanup in user interface [and] improvements in performance. Unlike what we were recently told here... Previous features associated with Windows 7, including a componentized new architecture and the new MinWin kernel that Microsoft began talking about back in 2003, are now being pushed off into the distant future along with the relational database WinFS concept from Vista. Instead, Windows 7 will simply repackage today's Vista so that people will buy it without complaining. That means an interface refresh, reduced layers of nagging message popups, and basic performance enhancements. Windows 7 vs. Snow Leopard: Microsoft's comeback plan http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/22/windows_7_vs_snow_leopard_mic rosofts_comeback_plan.html * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
Microsoft's executives have made no secret of the fact that Windows 7 is an incremental improvement to Windows Vista, with CEO Steve Ballmer calling it Windows Vista, a lot better, and saying, Windows 7 is Windows Vista with cleanup in user interface [and] improvements in performance. To that, I would reply, so what? Previous features associated with Windows 7, including a componentized new architecture and the new MinWin kernel that Microsoft began talking about back in 2003, are now being pushed off into the distant future along with the relational database WinFS concept from Vista. This is why you shouldn't get reviews of MS products from people who don't actually use the product. Minwin is not being pushed off. It's part of the Windows 7 code base. When you use 9 month old sources in your articles, you tend to look uninformed. Here's something from November. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1690 If you have some time to kill, you can hear about Minwin straight from the Russinovich's mouth. http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/mark-russinovich-explains-minwin-onc e-and-for-all.aspx That means an interface refresh, reduced layers of nagging message popups, and basic performance enhancements. And this is bad because * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:30:18 -0500, Tom Piwowar wrote: A long, thorough, and clear-eyed review of Windows 7 worth reading... Microsoft's goal with Windows 7 is to lift Vista's derailed train and put it back on the tracks. Windows 7 itself is internally called Windows 6.1, essentially Vista Service Pack 2 (Microsoft is also preparing a Wow! I'll bet Apple paid more than $.67 for *that* review. Hmm. AplleInsider trashing a Microsoft OS. Whodda thunk? -- Katan Welcome to ObamaNation! Our long national nightmare is over. Gerald Ford * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
