Re: [CGUYS] welcome to thunderbird
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 11:20 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: Apple doesn't respect its customers, no matter their levels of expertise. Perhaps so. But, what is important for Apple is not whether Apple respects its customers, but whether its customers, at least the new customers, respect Apple. The expanding cadre of iOS users, which represents most of Apple's new customers, appear to have a near fanatical desire for Apple products, primarily mobile devices. This is currently a fad, no doubt about that in my mind, and whether or not it will remain a fashionista driven thing or become based upon real world needs and results is up in the air at this point in time. Steve *** ** THIS LIST HAS MOVED TO YAHOO** ** PLEASE JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE ** ** Info at http://www.cguys.org/ ** ***
Re: [CGUYS] welcome to thunderbird
On Aug 25, 2011, at 12:00 AM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: These examples are the best reasons to NEVER buy software at an app store where it's automatically installed, overwriting the last version. The worst bugs are always in the automatic installs, and they're harder to clean up, too. Even most non-App Store apps don't automatically update themselves. For the most part, they tell me that an update is available and give me the option of upgrading immediately or postponing the update. I think that the point was that the app store automatically INSTALLED the update, thereby overwriting the version being updated, not that the app store automatically UPDATED the application without input from the end user. I absolutely prefer to download an updated version of any application and install it alongside the older version. That allows me to test the new version to ensure it works properly before I consider deleting the older one. That approach has saved me considerable grief and a lot of time on a number of occasions. Steve I want to have a backup of the INSTALLER, not the backup of the program. Without the installer, vital files could be missing. The online installer will overwrite what I have without giving me the choice not to do that -- Apple has done this for years, BUT they used to give a choice of downloading an installer instead of online only. I don't want to waste time digging through a series of backups, delving into the invisible system files to find all the pieces to recover, when a decent company would simply provide an installer for their software. I can even download Android and Symbian software without having it installed automatically, overwriting my files. At least Mozilla gives us software installers--and Bugzilla. What's wrong with Apple? Steve Jobs should have retired a long time ago and taken his sadistic narrow micromanagement style with him. Without the software installer, we're also at the whim of our ISP which hasn't treated us very well lately; connection has the hiccups, and calling them doesn't do any good. They blame it on our computers, even though the odds that all of our many computers will have exactly the same glitch at the same time are almost nil. Will call them and try again. Internet providers' flaky service can make a horrible product [Mac App Store online installations] even worse. Such is the pleasure of country living! Betty *** ** THIS LIST HAS MOVED TO YAHOO** ** PLEASE JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE ** ** Info at http://www.cguys.org/ ** ***
Re: [CGUYS] welcome to thunderbird
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 9:47 PM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: What's wrong with Apple? Steve Jobs should have retired a long time ago and taken his sadistic narrow micromanagement style with him. It is my thought that Apple wants to go with program installations on-line as opposed to having the user employ a downloaded installer because Apple has decided to design their devices to satisfy the needs of the lowest common denominator as far as users of their devices is concerned. Apple thinks that their users are, to a great degree it seems, a bunch of dumb asses in terms of relating to digital devices. Apple could well be correct in that assessment, at least as far as iOS device users go. It seems to me as though Apple is headed in the direction of making most of their devices suitable for easy use and equally attractive for anyone from toddlers up to the elderly. Steve *** ** THIS LIST HAS MOVED TO YAHOO** ** PLEASE JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE ** ** Info at http://www.cguys.org/ ** ***
Re: [CGUYS] welcome to thunderbird
What's wrong with Apple? Steve Jobs should have retired a long time ago and taken his sadistic narrow micromanagement style with him. It is my thought that Apple wants to go with program installations on-line as opposed to having the user employ a downloaded installer because Apple has decided to design their devices to satisfy the needs of the lowest common denominator as far as users of their devices is concerned. Apple thinks that their users are, to a great degree it seems, a bunch of dumb asses in terms of relating to digital devices. Apple could well be correct in that assessment, at least as far as iOS device users go. It seems to me as though Apple is headed in the direction of making most of their devices suitable for easy use and equally attractive for anyone from toddlers up to the elderly. Apple is also making their devices much less attractive for professionals who make a living with their computers and peripheral devices. It started with sealed computers, iPods and phones. What has always been a relatively simple process to change a battery or swap out a drive has become complicated to the point that we need special proprietary tools to open our devices to perform basic upgrades and repairs. We work on our own computers. We don't have time to send them out or wait for a tech to arrive. We have deadlines. The last straws are twofold. First, they broke Final Cut Pro, a very expensive downgrade/upgrade. Now they insist on installing the OS instead of permitting the user to do a very basic function. Was it REALLY necessary to discontinue Rosetta? When I finally downgrade to OS 10.7, it will cost me well over $1000 to upgrade all the important software that the new OS breaks, and more money to replace hardware that stops working--like my printer and scanner, perhaps even the interface with my camera. I like the OS, except 10.7, but the company is getting worse by the minute. The least that Apple can do is to admit that there are pros and basic consumers, and to treat them differently, treat them with respect. Have you ever tried to unlock a version 1, 2, or 3 iPhone? Apple refuses to do what every other phone manufacturers does routinely. Have you seen the odd screws they use on iPhone 4 and their notebooks? Why is my iPod touch glued together??? Apple doesn't respect its customers, no matter their levels of expertise. Betty *** ** THIS LIST HAS MOVED TO YAHOO** ** PLEASE JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE ** ** Info at http://www.cguys.org/ ** ***
Re: [CGUYS] welcome to thunderbird
On Aug 25, 2011, at 12:00 AM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: These examples are the best reasons to NEVER buy software at an app store where it's automatically installed, overwriting the last version. The worst bugs are always in the automatic installs, and they're harder to clean up, too. I recall you saying something like this several times. I don't know of any app store that works that way. In iOS and OS X, for example, app upgrades are always voluntary. You have to open the App Store App, go to the Updates Pane, select the updates you want to upgrade, and confirm your choices with your AppleID. In OS X, you can just restore the old version of an app from a backup if the upgrade doesn't work out (Apple makes this easy by their policy of requiring app store apps to be entirely self-contained bundles). In iOS, it's a little more complicated and involves restoring the entire device from a backup, but it's still possible. Even most non-App Store apps don't automatically update themselves. For the most part, they tell me that an update is available and give me the option of upgrading immediately or postponing the update. *** ** THIS LIST HAS MOVED TO YAHOO** ** PLEASE JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE ** ** Info at http://www.cguys.org/ ** ***
Re: [CGUYS] welcome to thunderbird
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:49 AM, David K Watson davidkirkwat...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 25, 2011, at 12:00 AM, b_s-wilk b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: These examples are the best reasons to NEVER buy software at an app store where it's automatically installed, overwriting the last version. The worst bugs are always in the automatic installs, and they're harder to clean up, too. Even most non-App Store apps don't automatically update themselves. For the most part, they tell me that an update is available and give me the option of upgrading immediately or postponing the update. I think that the point was that the app store automatically INSTALLED the update, thereby overwriting the version being updated, not that the app store automatically UPDATED the application without input from the end user. I absolutely prefer to download an updated version of any application and install it alongside the older version. That allows me to test the new version to ensure it works properly before I consider deleting the older one. That approach has saved me considerable grief and a lot of time on a number of occasions. Steve *** ** THIS LIST HAS MOVED TO YAHOO** ** PLEASE JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE ** ** Info at http://www.cguys.org/ ** ***
Re: [CGUYS] welcome to thunderbird
On 08/12/2011 09:47 AM, gerald wrote: vista, firefox, tbird, big computer with lots of free space. once every couple weeks i get a tbird upgrade. seems even more agressive than MS improvements. i get to the computer in the morning, and it's there. a couple weeks ago, i got a sidebar calendar from them. did not have much use for it, but really did not know how to completely delete it. about tues or wed, got another UG. few minutes later, got an email that wanted display on firefox. attemped display crashed the computer, pretty hard. after 3 hours of mucking around, and probably doing no good at all, i was able to get firefox back up. could not open tbird. went to the thunderbird site to look for reported problems. saw none. google post mentions the calender sidebar causes some problems. while at the tbird site, i downloaded and then ran the latest tbird. all works. there is no sidebar calender at the moment. When I update a program, I put the original in a separate folder, naming it something like Thunduhboid or Tbird ƒ, so the new one doesn't overwrite it. I just got TBird 5.0 and I hate it. It doesn't even have an easy keyboard command to get mail, so I have to mouse around. That's a loser. I could rewrite the preferences to add a command, but went back to v.3.1.12 and it does everything I need, plus it has current security updates. I installed Mac OS 10.6 on my MacBook and discovered that things that were easy before take more steps now--and for no good reason either, only to be different so we feel like we got what we paid for. Glad I didn't install it on my iMac, except that I like QuickTime Pro being built-in instead of extra. Yesterday, I downloaded Firefox 6.0. It's buggier than 5.x. Not sure if I like it. Might try one of the nightly builds or a beta to see if new bugs are going away. Save 5.x just in case I want to go back. These examples are the best reasons to NEVER buy software at an app store where it's automatically installed, overwriting the last version. The worst bugs are always in the automatic installs, and they're harder to clean up, too. I look at the AOL list from time to time. The main list is at Yahoo now, but as long as Tom is absent, nobody is blocking spammers. OTOH, the AOL list owner is Ray Everett Church. Haven't seen him post to any list since 2007. He's a very busy lawyer, but I'm sure he'd answer an email or two about resurrecting the AOL list. AOL is much better about keeping spammers away than Yahoo anyway. [http://www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.html] Betty *** ** THIS LIST HAS MOVED TO YAHOO** ** PLEASE JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE ** ** Info at http://www.cguys.org/ ** ***
Re: [CGUYS] welcome to thunderbird
On 08/12/2011 09:47 AM, gerald wrote: vista, firefox, tbird, big computer with lots of free space. once every couple weeks i get a tbird upgrade. seems even more agressive than MS improvements. i get to the computer in the morning, and it's there. a couple weeks ago, i got a sidebar calendar from them. did not have much use for it, but really did not know how to completely delete it. about tues or wed, got another UG. few minutes later, got an email that wanted display on firefox. attemped display crashed the computer, pretty hard. after 3 hours of mucking around, and probably doing no good at all, i was able to get firefox back up. could not open tbird. went to the thunderbird site to look for reported problems. saw none. google post mentions the calender sidebar causes some problems. while at the tbird site, i downloaded and then ran the latest tbird. all works. there is no sidebar calender at the moment. *** ** THIS LIST HAS MOVED TO YAHOO** ** PLEASE JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE ** ** Info at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *** Gerald, the AOL setup isn't really working, and there aren't any regular users. You are of course welcome to use the Yahoo setup with most of the old crew still on there (to be honest, Tom Piowar has disappeared or at least is refraining from posting). The most likely way to get a calendar in T'Bird is to have the Lightning extension activated or installed. It can be disabled in the Add-On section under tools if I remember the Windows version correctly (I mostly use Thunderbird in Linux, just like I'm doing now) *** ** THIS LIST HAS MOVED TO YAHOO** ** PLEASE JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE ** ** Info at http://www.cguys.org/ ** ***
