Re: [Cooker] mmx and such
On Saturday 22 Mar 2003 7:29 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: Actually this bug is a bug in the arch of the cpu it reports itself as an i686 even though it's i586 this is a bug in the hardware not necessarily in the kernel. ok there is a bug in C3 cpu, but this would not be a problem if an OS that claimed to be for an i586 cpu did not have that directory /lib/i686. If the directory had not been there in the first place, mandrake 9.0 would not have been tried on epia based pc's by newbies and then rejected/badmouthed as useless because it will not load without jumping through hoops! This gives linux a bad name it does not need or deserve. rowland penny
Re: [Cooker] mmx and such
On Friday 21 Mar 2003 10:18 pm, Pierre Jarillon wrote: Le Vendredi 21 Mars 2003 18:20, Per Øyvind Karlsen a écrit : does this bug applies to other than via c3's? I thought this bug only existed in 9.0 due to the kernel detecting via c3 as an i686..? Look at : http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/errata.php3#viac3 This bug was reported just after the 9.0 release. are you telling me this bug, for bug it is, is still there in 9.1. Mandrake is supposed to be an i586 compatible OS, so it should be a selectable option to load the i686 directory, not load it as standard. rowland penny
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor: 486sx
On Tuesday 15 Oct 2002 2:56 am, Leon Brooks wrote: On Tuesday 15 October 2002 04:18 am, rowland wrote: On Monday 14 Oct 2002 11:23 am, J. Greenlees wrote: Thierry Vignaud wrote: also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack). actually, it was a bad bit of circuit if I remember correctly, the co pro was completely un-usable because of it and the cpu was a lower price for that reason. if I remember rightly it was a batch of i486dx's that had this problem, the fpu just couldnt add up properly given the right set of circumstances and intel had to change all the affected chips! 486sx was 486dx sans FPU and on a skinnier buss. To add an FPU, you bought a 487sx chip, which was really a 486dx that had failed some factory tests and been packaged for the skinnier buss. For a little while, some motherboards had an option to run with _only_ a 487sx, because they were significantly cheaper than a 486sx and usually worked fine (sometimes faster, because a 486sx had no CPU cache at first but many of the 487sxes did). Cheers; Leon dont see how 486sx could have 'skinnier bus' seeing as how the same motherboard socket could take either a sx or dx chip rowland
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Monday 14 Oct 2002 11:23 am, J. Greenlees wrote: Thierry Vignaud wrote: snip also, the 486sx (at least the first ones) did has a coprocessor; it was disabled but was still there (though i don't rember if it was missing pins or some silicon hack). actually, it was a bad bit of circuit if I remember correctly, the co pro was completely un-usable because of it and the cpu was a lower price for that reason. if I remember rightly it was a batch of i486dx's that had this problem, the fpu just couldnt add up properly given the right set of circumstances and intel had to change all the affected chips!
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Tuesday 08 Oct 2002 10:37 pm, Ben Reser wrote: everybody who has an i686 machine is missing the point. Every rpm on the installation cd's are for i568, so why is there a directory named i686. the fact is that if the rpms are for i586 then the kernel should be for i586 and anybody who has a i586 should recompile the kernel themselves. ok the processer or the software that identifies it is bugged, but if the i686 directory had not been there, this whole problem would not have happened :-) rowland On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 10:15:20PM +0100, rowland penny wrote: mandrake is advertised as being i586 (or pentium) compatible not i686 (celeron, p2,p3,p4) so why have a directory named i686?. redhat 8.0 loads onto a epia based system without any trouble so why doesn't mandrake! Well from what I understand the bug isn't that the i686 directory is there. The i686 directory lets i686 machines use the optimized libraries for their arch. Everything else will use the libraries in just the /lib dir. Apparently there was a bug in the kernel that mistakenly identifies your processor as i686 not i586. So ld tries to use the i686 libraries. Thus the error. Deleting the i686 tree resolves the bug because then ld does try to use those libraries since they aren't there and falls back on the other ones. The workaround is already posted on the errata page. At this point there is no other way to fix it other than replacing the kernel in the install CD with a fixed one. And that isn't going to happen until the next version. Now at some point I'm sure cooker will get fixed and then you could make a CD set with just the cooker kernel and that will work around you problem in an easier way.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
I understand (and I understood this from the start) that the bug is in the way the C3 is reported, I also understand that mandrake 9.0 is advertised as being for i586! In which case, why is there the ability tp optomise for i686, surely this should be something that is done after installation. If you are going to say 'so people who have i686 machines will have faster/better machines' then it should also optimise for athlons as well!!! rowland on Wednesday 09 Oct 2002 7:53 pm, Ben Reser wrote: On Thu, Oct 10, 2002 at 07:03:53PM +0100, rowland wrote: everybody who has an i686 machine is missing the point. Every rpm on the installation cd's are for i568, so why is there a directory named i686. the fact is that if the rpms are for i586 then the kernel should be for i586 and anybody who has a i586 should recompile the kernel themselves. ok the processer or the software that identifies it is bugged, but if the i686 directory had not been there, this whole problem would not have happened :-) No the bug would have still been there. You just wouldn't have had a problem with it. The bug is *NOT* the presence of the i686 directory. The bug is the incorrect detection of your processor as being i686 not i586. Deleting the i686 is just a work around for the problem.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Monday 07 October 2002 6:04 pm, you wrote: this is what I had to do to install 9.0 onto a epia 800 C3 motherboard do a text install, as packages start to install watch for glibc, when you see this, switch to console (alt + F2), type rm -r /mnt/lib/i686 and press return/enter. It should now load normally. you should now switch back with alt+F1. Only problem is you don't get to choose which packages to load this way but I could not switch to console from graphical installation, is this another set of bugs/features? All this does beg the question, why does a distribution claiming to be i586 compatible, have a directory named i686? rowland On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 07:58, Jose Antonio Becerra Permuy wrote: It seems that the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with the CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and that the Via C3 cpu (which has not that instruction) is detected as i686. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this until saturday, so if anybody else can test it (cc. to my e-mail address please). Regards. I can try tonight can you tell me how you would do this so I can be sure I'm doing it correctly. James
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Tuesday 08 Oct 2002 8:35 pm, James Sparenberg wrote: It's part of glibc and if you have a 686 cpu (like a celeron) it does get used for the kernel. (Even in RH they do this) James mandrake is advertised as being i586 (or pentium) compatible not i686 (celeron, p2,p3,p4) so why have a directory named i686?. redhat 8.0 loads onto a epia based system without any trouble so why doesn't mandrake! rowland
[Cooker] Re: About C3 and Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
On Monday 07 October 2002 12:27 pm, you wrote: er, I think I understand what you are saying, after installation del a directory, is that right. Well I would if I could but installation fails for me and the rescue disk doesn't work, so how do I get in to delete the directory please. Wait a minute, here is a thought, the guys who produced this, admit they got it wrong and quickly produce 9.0.1 to put it right!!! rowland. Ok. I got the answer from Juan Quintela. If I understood well, the problem is that glibc package from Mandrake 9.0 has some libraries optimized for i686 (with CMOV instruction) in the directory /lib/i686 and the cpu detection is failing somewhere. So, the solution is to delete that directory as soon as possible, when the glibc package is installed, to avoid programs use those libraries. I can't test this untill saturday, so if some of you can test it, please, tell me if it works or not. Regards.
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 am, you wrote: thanks, I did not think it was right, but had to check. now if someone could just help by pointing me in the right direction of why 9.0 will not work, I would be most gratefull :-) rowland. rowland wrote on Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 05:22:20PM +0100 : On Saturday 05 October 2002 1:45 pm, you wrote: I cannot get it to work, but have now been told on linitx.com forum that the reason is the kernel in 9.0 is for an i686, is this right ? No, it was compiled *ON* an i686 *FOR* i586. Blue skies... Todd
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 pm, you wrote: why does redhat 8.0 work but mandrake 9.0 does not? obviously someone must know. After using mandrake from 7.0 I find that I must now either switch to redhat or suse or in fact anybodies distribution to use linux on my mini-itx board . would anybody care to comment on this. rowland. I will also :-) Bernard rowland wrote: On Sunday 06 October 2002 12:52 am, you wrote: thanks, I did not think it was right, but had to check. now if someone could just help by pointing me in the right direction of why 9.0 will not work, I would be most gratefull :-) rowland. rowland wrote on Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 05:22:20PM +0100 : On Saturday 05 October 2002 1:45 pm, you wrote: I cannot get it to work, but have now been told on linitx.com forum that the reason is the kernel in 9.0 is for an i686, is this right ? No, it was compiled *ON* an i686 *FOR* i586. Blue skies... Todd
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Saturday 05 October 2002 10:57 am, you wrote: dont bother, it does the same for me, tried fresh install, upgrade over 8.2 and just packages upgrade, but I get the same answer as bernard everytime , now trying upgrading kde etc seperatlly to see where the problem lies rowland penny On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Bernard Varaine wrote: Please try final, IIRC there were a number of issues that were resolved relating to non-intel and non-AMD CPUS between RC2 and final. just bought a VIA EPIA 800 to build a small Linux box but I am getting errors when trying to install 9.0 RC2. Install seems to run smoothly, (just one error one copying to Xfree files) goes to setting up network and recognise the onboard NIC, setup users but then when displaying the services to choose the one you want to activate on boot there is none.. If you say OK the install them come with an error on mkinitrd.. Anyone out there have tried an install on same motherboard/processor.. regards Bernard
Re: [Cooker] VIA EPIA 800 C3 processor
On Saturday 05 October 2002 1:45 pm, you wrote: I cannot get it to work, but have now been told on linitx.com forum that the reason is the kernel in 9.0 is for an i686, is this right ? rowland penny On Saturday 05 October 2002 10:57 am, you wrote: dont bother, it does the same for me, tried fresh install, upgrade over 8.2 and just packages upgrade, but I get the same answer as bernard everytime , now trying upgrading kde etc seperatlly to see where the problem lies rowland penny On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Bernard Varaine wrote: Please try final, IIRC there were a number of issues that were resolved relating to non-intel and non-AMD CPUS between RC2 and final. just bought a VIA EPIA 800 to build a small Linux box but I am getting errors when trying to install 9.0 RC2. Install seems to run smoothly, (just one error one copying to Xfree files) goes to setting up network and recognise the onboard NIC, setup users but then when displaying the services to choose the one you want to activate on boot there is none.. If you say OK the install them come with an error on mkinitrd.. Anyone out there have tried an install on same motherboard/processor.. regards Bernard
