Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

"Mike Calloway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Does this mean 8.2 Final will be in April 2002?

April/May, yes.


-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://www.frozen-bubble.org/

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Vadim Plessky]

On Thursday 31 January 2002 09:23, Yura Gusev wrote:
|   On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, David BAUDENS wrote:
|   > On Tuesday 29 January 2002 20:06, you wrote:
|   >
|   > Once again, KDE 3.0 will not be included in 8.2 if it is not ready.
|   > 'Ready' means that KDE 3.0 need to be in final release and that the
|   > Mandrake's KDE Team + QA Team agree to release it. So, don't hope to
|   > much to see it included in final contribs CDs (KDE 2.2.2 will be the
|   > KDE avalaible in 8.2).
|
|   I tryed KDE for few minutes, used it intensivly and it crashed sereval
|   times(mostly taskbar when i asked it to use pixmap as a background.)

make sure that you have QT 2.3.1, not Qt 2.3.2

|   So i'm thinking that maybe just maybe Mandrake will switch to some other
|   more stable WM, for example IceWM (+ DFM or Evolution for desktop icons).
|   Because this WM is much faster and stable.

Do not mix KDE and KWin (KDE's Window Manager).
KWin is pretty fast - it starts under 1 sec.
To check it, from the command promt run:

#X
than: switch to terminal 1 ((Ctrl+Alt+F1)
#aterm
or xterm
than: switch to terminal 7 ((Ctrl+Alt+F7)
#kwin

so now you will get kwin running, without KDE
as I mentioned, KWin starts pretty fast here.

|
|   > KDE 3 installation will of course allow users to run KDE 2 or KDE 3.
|   >
|   > Beta versions of KDE 3 will be of course available in Cooker (but only
|   > if when we will have time to do it, i.e. when there will be no know
|   > bugs which need to be fixed in KDE 2).
|
|   Yes, please test all apps. And make 8.2 stable even if you will
|   have to downgrade or use alpha software. Ask all your developers to
|   write down any bug or crash on paper, and then go through debug process.
|   Go and brainstorn every app you mandrake have build.
|
|   For example you can add small hint bar for the MCC, something like
|   on.area("Configure Local and Network Printers").

-- 

Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
KDE mini-Themes
http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Mike Calloway]

Does this mean 8.2 Final will be in April 2002?


>Unless what's generally perceived, we mostly never plan release
>date according to third party software release dates (the mostly
>is here because for 7.2 we could have kde-1.99 in), because doing
>a distro involves many things which are not widely known such as
>>scheduled development cycle, bugfixing cycle, etc. All our
>>releases are 6-month away from each other, with a maximum of
>1-month delay according to various things including layout of
>bugfixing.
>
>--
>Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/
>




_
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
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Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Vadim Plessky]

On Tuesday 29 January 2002 22:58, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:
|   "Timothy R. Butler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|   > > As of kde-3.0, I may be wrong but it seems that there is only
|   > > little to hope from the user side, between kde-2.2.2 and kde-3.0,
|   > > isn't it?
|   >
|   >   From what I've seen of it, that would be correct UI-wise, but it is
|   > binary incompatible with kde-2.x applications since it is based on QT3
|   > (so any KDE 2.x apps would have to be removed/upgraded at the time of
|   > upgrading to KDE-3.0 unless it was some how installed without removing
|   > KDE2/QT2). The main reason I bring this up, is that I know around KDE
|   > 2.0's release, a lot of people were rather frustrated that by the time
|   > the latest release of SuSE started showing up in stores (7.0,
|   > mid-September 2000), they had to download 50 megs of software, and many
|   > of the applications included in the system ceased to function or had to
|   > be removed because of dependancy problems.
|
|   OTOH we'll be releasing with a very stable version of kde :-).
|

That's right.
But, at the same time, many CSS, DOM and JavaScript fixes (KHTML, KJS) are 
not incorporated into KDE 2.2 branch - already for 2-3 months.
So, frankly speaking, KDE2 branch was frozen around 3 months ago...
By the time LM 8.2 hitted shelves (add 1-2 more months), KDE2 will be 
completely out of date.
Yes, it's still good to have it as a backup solution.
But KDE3 (latest beta/CVS) should be included into LM 8.2. That's my opinion 
:-) 

-- 

Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
KDE mini-Themes
http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Murray J. Root]

 Vadim Plessky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
...
> That's right.
> But, at the same time, many CSS, DOM and JavaScript fixes (KHTML, KJS)
> are 
> not incorporated into KDE 2.2 branch - already for 2-3 months.
> So, frankly speaking, KDE2 branch was frozen around 3 months ago...
> By the time LM 8.2 hitted shelves (add 1-2 more months), KDE2 will
> be 
> completely out of date.
> Yes, it's still good to have it as a backup solution.
> But KDE3 (latest beta/CVS) should be included into LM 8.2. That's my
> opinion 
> :-) 
>
 
After the way people moaned and groaned about 8.1 having bugs?
Nope - too many people expect the distro to be perfect - giving them
something you KNOW isn't ready is just foolish. 

-- 
Murray J. Root
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - email
(404) 978-1262 x2646 - voicemail/fax




__
FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place.
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Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Yura Gusev]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, David BAUDENS wrote:

> On Tuesday 29 January 2002 20:06, you wrote:
>
> Once again, KDE 3.0 will not be included in 8.2 if it is not ready.
> 'Ready' means that KDE 3.0 need to be in final release and that the
> Mandrake's KDE Team + QA Team agree to release it. So, don't hope to
> much to see it included in final contribs CDs (KDE 2.2.2 will be the
> KDE avalaible in 8.2).

I tryed KDE for few minutes, used it intensivly and it crashed sereval
times(mostly taskbar when i asked it to use pixmap as a background.)
So i'm thinking that maybe just maybe Mandrake will switch to some other
more stable WM, for example IceWM (+ DFM or Evolution for desktop icons).
Because this WM is much faster and stable.

> KDE 3 installation will of course allow users to run KDE 2 or KDE 3.
>
> Beta versions of KDE 3 will be of course available in Cooker (but only
> if when we will have time to do it, i.e. when there will be no know
> bugs which need to be fixed in KDE 2).

Yes, please test all apps. And make 8.2 stable even if you will
have to downgrade or use alpha software. Ask all your developers to
write down any bug or crash on paper, and then go through debug process.
Go and brainstorn every app you mandrake have build.

For example you can add small hint bar for the MCC, something like
on.area("Configure Local and Network Printers").

-- 
  4:07am  up 35 days, 15:17,  2 users,  load average: 0.03, 0.17, 0.08
  O//
 <==-}  ->   .--._.-^-(.}
  )'/{   ( \d
 ./\, ) -._.- >
/  /  `\/' GNU  -=LFS*1482=-
I am not 31337. But I can use the Vi editor... ;-0

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[David BAUDENS]

On Tuesday 29 January 2002 20:06, you wrote:

/.../

>   1.) I'm not sure if you are planning this or not, but have you
> considered delaying the distro until the release of KDE 3.0? While
> you might still want to keep KDE 2.2.2 the default desktop, you could
> either have an option to install KDE 3.0 instead, or a way to install
> them side-by-side (i.e. perhaps install KDE 3 to /opt/kde or vise
> versa). SuSE did something like this in SuSE Linux 7.1.

/.../

Once again, KDE 3.0 will not be included in 8.2 if it is not ready. 
'Ready' means that KDE 3.0 need to be in final release and that the 
Mandrake's KDE Team + QA Team agree to release it. So, don't hope to 
much to see it included in final contribs CDs (KDE 2.2.2 will be the 
KDE avalaible in 8.2).

KDE 3 installation will of course allow users to run KDE 2 or KDE 3.

Beta versions of KDE 3 will be of course available in Cooker (but only 
if when we will have time to do it, i.e. when there will be no know 
bugs which need to be fixed in KDE 2).

-- 
David BAUDENS
MandrakeSoft 

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Vadim Plessky]

On Tuesday 29 January 2002 20:26, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:
|   "Timothy R. Butler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|
|   >   Now, a few opinions:
|   >
|   >   1.) I'm not sure if you are planning this or not, but have you
|   > considered delaying the distro until the release of KDE 3.0? While you
|   > might still want to keep KDE 2.2.2 the default desktop, you could
|   > either have an option to install KDE 3.0 instead, or a way to install
|   > them side-by-side (i.e. perhaps install KDE 3 to /opt/kde or vise
|   > versa). SuSE did something like this in SuSE Linux 7.1.
|
|   Unless what's generally perceived, we mostly never plan release
|   date according to third party software release dates (the mostly
|   is here because for 7.2 we could have kde-1.99 in), because doing
|   a distro involves many things which are not widely known such as
|   scheduled development cycle, bugfixing cycle, etc. All our
|   releases are 6-month away from each other, with a maximum of
|   1-month delay according to various things including layout of
|   bugfixing.
|
|   As of kde-3.0, I may be wrong but it seems that there is only
|   little to hope from the user side, between kde-2.2.2 and kde-3.0,
|   isn't it?

There is a lot of improovement in KDE 3.0 comparing to KDE 2.2.2
Support for Asian languages is in particluar requires Qt 3.0 and KDE 3.0, 
which uses Qt3.
I can also add that key KDE developers do no accept Bug Report against KDE 
2.2 branch - as it's supposed to be closed.

Other areas where KDE was significantly improoved:
 * Konqueror (and KHTML/LJS in particular)
  - JavaScript engine is re-written
  - CSS has a lot of improovements (better standards compliance)
  - DOM has a lot of improovements
  
Besides, KDE3 (I hope) will have support for SVG (via KSVG module) and will 
even support SVG icons (neither MacOS X nor WinXP has support for SVG icons)
SVG support is somewhat critical on a way to standards-compliant Web 
universe, so it makes sense to upgrade to KDE3 just because of improoved 
(added) SVG support.
Some time ago I claimed that I will develop some SVG icons. Indeed, I did few 
of them - but I was sticked to KDE2 for some time and could not test them in 
KDE3.
BTW:  any chance to see Sodipodi (GNOME application) in upcoming LM 8.2?
I used it for making SVG drawings, and despite some limitations program is 
great, IMHO.  (http://sodipodi.sourceforge.net) 

I second back idea of installing KDE3 and KDE2 in parallel in upcoming LM 7.2
Even if KDE3 is not ready, you can install KDE3 Beta2 in parallel to KDE2 
Stable, and allow users to test it and send bug reports to the KDE team.
More reporting we get, higher chances that next release will be more bug-free.

-- 

Vadim Plessky
http://kde2.newmail.ru  (English)
33 Window Decorations and 6 Widget Styles for KDE
http://kde2.newmail.ru/kde_themes.html
KDE mini-Themes
http://kde2.newmail.ru/themes/

RE: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Borsenkow Andrej]

> I can also add that key KDE developers do no accept Bug Report against
KDE
> 2.2 branch - as it's supposed to be closed.
> 

Key developers may do what they want. Distributions have there user base
that they must maintain. 
 
> I second back idea of installing KDE3 and KDE2 in parallel in upcoming
LM
> 7.2
> Even if KDE3 is not ready, you can install KDE3 Beta2 in parallel to
KDE2
> Stable, and allow users to test it and send bug reports to the KDE
team.

This needs cleanup of KDE3. Current hack of setting KDEHOME screws up
KDE2 applications started out of KDE3. And menu methods for KDE3 are
still using .kde/ and not .kde3/ as user prefix.

KDE3 has to be recompiled with KDEHOME defaulting to ~/.kde3, menu
methods fixed then you can really use them in parallel (and even run
KDE2 apps out of KDE3 and vice versa).

-andrej

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Mattias Dahlberg]

On 29 Jan 2002, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:

> Actually we're trying hard to look "more professional" and the
> design team decided that this more "traditional" and "less
> eye-candy" design looks more professional.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with the new look, it's just
that the text is hard to read, because it's "double". I'm referring to the
shadow effect, which not only makes the text unclear, but also takes away
a lot of the professional feeling. But the picture is totally OK, methinks.

Regards,
Mattias

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

Neuromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I have it installed here.  Works great.  I had to alter it slightly, but it
> works.  I use it to emulate DOS so I can play that old "Second Reality" demo by

Does the sound work ?? Since I've got a GUS I keep a dos floppy
to run the demos :-).

> Future Crew.  Remember that?

Of course, I'm a demo addict[1], even if currently I would name
"303" by Statix/Vic as my favourite demo.


Ref: 
[1] http://guillaume.cottenceau.free.fr/html/demos.html

-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

"Timothy R. Butler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


> > As of kde-3.0, I may be wrong but it seems that there is only
> > little to hope from the user side, between kde-2.2.2 and kde-3.0,
> > isn't it?
> 
>   From what I've seen of it, that would be correct UI-wise, but it is binary 
> incompatible with kde-2.x applications since it is based on QT3 (so any KDE 
> 2.x apps would have to be removed/upgraded at the time of upgrading to 
> KDE-3.0 unless it was some how installed without removing KDE2/QT2). 
>   The main reason I bring this up, is that I know around KDE 2.0's release, a 
> lot of people were rather frustrated that by the time the latest release of 
> SuSE started showing up in stores (7.0, mid-September 2000), they had to 
> download 50 megs of software, and many of the applications included in the 
> system ceased to function or had to be removed because of dependancy problems.

OTOH we'll be releasing with a very stable version of kde :-).

> > Actually we're trying hard to look "more professional" and the
> > design team decided that this more "traditional" and "less
> > eye-candy" design looks more professional.
> 
>   I can see where you are coming from. Is that why the console login screens 
> with the ASCII-art version of Tux have been removed, btw? I guess we can't 

Yes.

> have any fun anymore, huh? ;-)

Sort of. Times are rather worse than before and we need to
attract more business to use mandrake.

>   Seriously, I'm very impressed with Mandrake's overall "professional" feel. 
> That's part of what won me over from SuSE, along with your great utilities 
> such as urpmi.

Thanks.

>   Well, it's slow, but it may be useful for some real life emulation now 
> adays. I've been on the project as the PR guy since last May, and Bochs has 
> sped up, gained a CLI-based config tool, and networking support; among other 
> things.
>   Right out of the box (pun not intended), you can run the demonstration 
> DLX-Linux, and it only takes a few minutes to get MS-DOS or the QNX demo disk 
> to run. I haven't attempted it, but Bochs has also been known to run Windows 
> 95 and NT 4. Practically speaking, probably it's strongest use is as a way to 
> run legacy DOS apps (including ones requiring networking support). I should 
> also mention in my personal experience it ran Windows 3.1 at a fairly decent 
> speed (on my 450 MHz machine, without slowing down the system).

I see, though I'm not sure this particular package would be the
ideal candidate to be in the distro. Basic questions are the size
and potential usage from people, and we are now much more strict
to accept new packages.


-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Timothy R. Butler]

Hi Guillaume,

> >   4.) I'm not sure if this was just because there weren't any security
> > updates or not, but I did not receive a prompt to check for upgrades
> > during the install process.
>
> Strange, in every install I've done so far, it asked for it.
>
> Can you send the file /root/report.bug ?

  Sure, I will send it privately though since it's just under 300 kb.

> As of kde-3.0, I may be wrong but it seems that there is only
> little to hope from the user side, between kde-2.2.2 and kde-3.0,
> isn't it?

  From what I've seen of it, that would be correct UI-wise, but it is binary 
incompatible with kde-2.x applications since it is based on QT3 (so any KDE 
2.x apps would have to be removed/upgraded at the time of upgrading to 
KDE-3.0 unless it was some how installed without removing KDE2/QT2). 
  The main reason I bring this up, is that I know around KDE 2.0's release, a 
lot of people were rather frustrated that by the time the latest release of 
SuSE started showing up in stores (7.0, mid-September 2000), they had to 
download 50 megs of software, and many of the applications included in the 
system ceased to function or had to be removed because of dependancy problems.


> Actually we're trying hard to look "more professional" and the
> design team decided that this more "traditional" and "less
> eye-candy" design looks more professional.

  I can see where you are coming from. Is that why the console login screens 
with the ASCII-art version of Tux have been removed, btw? I guess we can't 
have any fun anymore, huh? ;-) 
  Seriously, I'm very impressed with Mandrake's overall "professional" feel. 
That's part of what won me over from SuSE, along with your great utilities 
such as urpmi.
  

> Is it functional? Last time (that was rather long ago) I talked
> with Kevin P. Lawton, he said that the design of Bochs made it
> practically unusable for real-life emulation since it doesn't
> execute native code, and that was why he worked on the plex
> project afterwards.

  Well, it's slow, but it may be useful for some real life emulation now 
adays. I've been on the project as the PR guy since last May, and Bochs has 
sped up, gained a CLI-based config tool, and networking support; among other 
things.
  Right out of the box (pun not intended), you can run the demonstration 
DLX-Linux, and it only takes a few minutes to get MS-DOS or the QNX demo disk 
to run. I haven't attempted it, but Bochs has also been known to run Windows 
95 and NT 4. Practically speaking, probably it's strongest use is as a way to 
run legacy DOS apps (including ones requiring networking support). I should 
also mention in my personal experience it ran Windows 3.1 at a fairly decent 
speed (on my 450 MHz machine, without slowing down the system).

  -Tim

-- 

Timothy R. Butler | Universal  Networks | http://www.uninet.info
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ICQ: 12495932 AIM: Uninettm
Christian Portal and Search Tool:   http://www.faithtree.com
Open Source Migration Guide:  http://www.ofb.biz
= "Christian Web Services Since 1996" ==

Re: [Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

"Timothy R. Butler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


>   1.) There seems to be a problem in the way HardDrake configures SB Live! 
> soundcards during installation. While the result works alright, because it 
> uses OSS/Lite rather than ALSA it is not possible to use MIDI-Synth, AFAIK. 
> By rerunning HardDrake through DrakeConf after installation, the SB Live! is 
> setup with ALSA and all is well. This problem also occurs in Mandrake 8.1. 
> Would it be possible to make the installation use ALSA to begin with?

Since we're in the process to substitute harddrake by the
so-called "harddrake2", and that original author of harddrake
doesn't work for us anymore, I don't know if this would be done
for the final... Thierry, WDYT ?


>   4.) I'm not sure if this was just because there weren't any security 
> updates or not, but I did not receive a prompt to check for upgrades during 
> the install process.

Strange, in every install I've done so far, it asked for it.

Can you send the file /root/report.bug ?

 
>   Now, a few opinions:
> 
>   1.) I'm not sure if you are planning this or not, but have you considered 
> delaying the distro until the release of KDE 3.0? While you might still want 
> to keep KDE 2.2.2 the default desktop, you could either have an option to 
> install KDE 3.0 instead, or a way to install them side-by-side (i.e. perhaps 
> install KDE 3 to /opt/kde or vise versa). SuSE did something like this in 
> SuSE Linux 7.1.

Unless what's generally perceived, we mostly never plan release
date according to third party software release dates (the mostly
is here because for 7.2 we could have kde-1.99 in), because doing
a distro involves many things which are not widely known such as
scheduled development cycle, bugfixing cycle, etc. All our
releases are 6-month away from each other, with a maximum of
1-month delay according to various things including layout of
bugfixing.

As of kde-3.0, I may be wrong but it seems that there is only
little to hope from the user side, between kde-2.2.2 and kde-3.0,
isn't it?


>   2.) May I suggest that the LILO boot screen design be moved back to the 
> 8.1-style? It match Aurora's style very nicely, and looked a little more 
> modern, IMO.

Actually we're trying hard to look "more professional" and the
design team decided that this more "traditional" and "less
eye-candy" design looks more professional.

 
>   Oh, and on a different topic, I was wondering if it is too late to suggest 
> an RPM for inclusion for Mandrake 8.2? We at the Bochs Project are highly 
> interested in getting Bochs included in Mandrake (particularly since Mandrake 
> was the company that made it open source and owns the copyright). We have a 
> non-distro specific RPM for Bochs 1.3, including man pages and a DLX-Linux 
> image available at http://bochs.sf.net.  I would be happy to make this RPM 
> MDK specific if you are interested.

Is it functional? Last time (that was rather long ago) I talked
with Kevin P. Lawton, he said that the design of Bochs made it
practically unusable for real-life emulation since it doesn't
execute native code, and that was why he worked on the plex
project afterwards.


-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

[Cooker] Early Comments on MDK 8.2 Beta

[Timothy R. Butler]

Hi, 
  I just installed Mandrake 8.2 Beta last night, and I had a few 
comments/bugs to report. According to MandrakeForum, it sounds like the best, 
err, forum for these comments is here, but please let me know if it would be 
better to address them elsewhere.

  1.) There seems to be a problem in the way HardDrake configures SB Live! 
soundcards during installation. While the result works alright, because it 
uses OSS/Lite rather than ALSA it is not possible to use MIDI-Synth, AFAIK. 
By rerunning HardDrake through DrakeConf after installation, the SB Live! is 
setup with ALSA and all is well. This problem also occurs in Mandrake 8.1. 
Would it be possible to make the installation use ALSA to begin with?

  2.) DrakeConf seems to have a few problems in as far as drawing it's 
window. For example, when it starts it seems to be in the "boot" section, but 
it does not show "boot" as selected. After a while, I also noticed some icons 
started to be drawn on top of each other.

  3.) Rpmdrake seems to crash when I click the button to download a list of 
security update mirrors (i.e. after it prompts one to do such). I do not have 
any more information on this right now, but I'd be happy to try to get the 
output that it sends to the console about this if you would like.

  4.) I'm not sure if this was just because there weren't any security 
updates or not, but I did not receive a prompt to check for upgrades during 
the install process.

  Now, a few opinions:

  1.) I'm not sure if you are planning this or not, but have you considered 
delaying the distro until the release of KDE 3.0? While you might still want 
to keep KDE 2.2.2 the default desktop, you could either have an option to 
install KDE 3.0 instead, or a way to install them side-by-side (i.e. perhaps 
install KDE 3 to /opt/kde or vise versa). SuSE did something like this in 
SuSE Linux 7.1.

  2.) May I suggest that the LILO boot screen design be moved back to the 
8.1-style? It match Aurora's style very nicely, and looked a little more 
modern, IMO.

  3.) Finally, this is probably more for a post-8.2 release, but what about 
using KDE's XPart embedding to embed the various DrakeConf applets (such as 
DrakeX) into KDE's Control Center (like SuSE/YaST and Caldera/Lizard does)? 
This is rather convenient in that all of the system settings are in one place.

  Oh, and on a different topic, I was wondering if it is too late to suggest 
an RPM for inclusion for Mandrake 8.2? We at the Bochs Project are highly 
interested in getting Bochs included in Mandrake (particularly since Mandrake 
was the company that made it open source and owns the copyright). We have a 
non-distro specific RPM for Bochs 1.3, including man pages and a DLX-Linux 
image available at http://bochs.sf.net.  I would be happy to make this RPM 
MDK specific if you are interested.

  Keep up the great work, I'm really glad I switched to Mandrake!

  Best,
 Tim
 
-- 

Timothy R. Butler | Universal  Networks | http://www.uninet.info
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  ICQ: 12495932 AIM: Uninettm
Christian Portal and Search Tool:   http://www.faithtree.com
Open Source Migration Guide:  http://www.ofb.biz
= "Christian Web Services Since 1996" ==