Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
--- Buchan Milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ric Johnson wrote: > > > Well, if "Joe Users" are paying for it, I suppose that is the > way > > it should be. Problem is that "Joe" wants the latest browser > > widget too - maybe the latest Galeon - and expects somebody > will > > build it for them. That "somebody" is the guy that expects > > mozilla-devel to be readily available... > > Well, take a look on MandrakeClub, we have Mozilla-1.4, galeon > rebuilt > for mozilla-1.4 and epiphany too, which were all available > within about > 3 days of the source release of 1.4 ... > > > It seems like there should be a better solution than to cut > > mozilla-devel from the download release since it is > absolutely > > essential for building any of the gecko based applications. > > Most of which are provided (I meant to build wxMozilla but > didn't get to > it ...). Anyway, if 1% of the users (and that's optimistic) are > going to > be building and hosting mozilla-related packages, I am sure > they can > download the 3MB -devel package. > > Instead of the -devel package, maybe there are other *real* > applications > that users, who have no idea how to compile gecko apps, will be > able to use. > > Of course, mozilla is one of those packages that gets > out-of-date pretty quickly, so in 3 weeks time you aren't > going to want the -devel package from 1.4 any more ... Well, that's a good point since 1.5 is very close to release. :) All in all, thanks for your input. :) I have devoted enuf time to this since, obviously, MDK has no intention of including moz devel for the release. That's too bad as it will just make devel with MDK just a little bit harder... > Regards, > Buchan Regards to you too. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 22:33, Ric Johnson wrote: > Generally speaking, it is the 1 or 2 % of the population that > gets the 98 or 99% of the work done. Those are the people that Possibly. However, Mandrakesoft make more money selling to 98% of people than selling to 2% of people... -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
On Mon Sep 15 14:19 -0700, Ric Johnson wrote: > > Well, why do they need to build galeon, when it is included?? > > That's a joke, right? No, it's a legitimate point. > ( the length of the reasons is prohibitive and content > inflamatory ) Post it... we can take it... or is it because you can't come up with a reason? > > Mozilla has never been the default browser, Konqueror and > > Galeon are. > > Sorry, BM, but you must not have been lurking around cooker/MDK > long enuf How long have you been lurking around cooker/MDK? I've been on this list for 18 months now and Buchan predates me. I can't recall ever seeing a post from you before this thread. You may want to try researching what you say, it makes you look like slightly less of an idiot (though I'm not sure how much that would help you). > [Signature] > My email box is full of spam and signatures. Honestly, I have email that are 3/4 > signatures and 1/4 content. A signature is neither a resume nor is it a place for > you to include your personal philosphy about life in general. If you are one of > those who do that, please stop sending me yours. ONE line is enough! While my signature may be long, at least it adheres to <80 characters per line. Quick question: how old are you, Ric? From your spelling and attitude, I'm setting the Over/Under at 13 and taking the Under. -- Levi Ramsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Take due notice and govern yourselves accordingly. Currently playing: Rush - Permanent Waves - Natural Science Linux 2.4.22-0.4mdk 17:45:00 up 6 days, 5:11, 2 users, load average: 0.39, 0.24, 0.18
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
--- Radek Vybiral <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Ric Johnson wrote: > > > > > --- Frederic Crozat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:05:01 -0700, Ric Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- Götz Waschk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 04:28:36 Uhr MET, schrieb > Ric > > > >> Johnson: > > > >> > Why? > > > >> Space constrains on the CDs. > > > > > > > > Are you sure about that? That does not make any sense to > me > > > > considering the large number of non-essiential programs > that > > > > could have been removed and that mozilla is the default > MDK > > > web > > > > browser since they dropped Netscape. > > > > > > Mozilla-devel is useless for most people, unless you want > to > > > build apps which uses gecko.. > > > > Precisely. > > > > So those who would build, e.g., galeon, get penalized in > favor of > > those who want to play frozen bubble(SEVEN MB) or > powermanga(SIX > > MB) or ...? > > > > Many developers like this simple games because much more work, > like me. > > If you include game like Frozen Bubble, the game will be played > by 50 of > 100 users. If you include mozilla-devel, 2 of 100 users will be > happy. > Now compare it yourself... > > R.V. There are things in life that are important and things that are not. Generally speaking, it is the 1 or 2 % of the population that gets the 98 or 99% of the work done. Those are the people that should not be inconvenienced as they are very busy and do not generally have time to play games. However, I did not say to REmove the games because even the work-a-holic needs to take a break now & then. I suggested to Move them -but- if it comes down to including trivia or real devel programs, I would vote for removing the trivia because the individuals that have the time to play the games also have the time to find them. BTW, I have never played frozen bubble and will *never* run freeciv-server... I use MS Windows for games as that is its forte and also because rebooting forces me to stop 'working' for a while. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ric Johnson wrote: > Well, if "Joe Users" are paying for it, I suppose that is the way > it should be. Problem is that "Joe" wants the latest browser > widget too - maybe the latest Galeon - and expects somebody will > build it for them. That "somebody" is the guy that expects > mozilla-devel to be readily available... Well, take a look on MandrakeClub, we have Mozilla-1.4, galeon rebuilt for mozilla-1.4 and epiphany too, which were all available within about 3 days of the source release of 1.4 ... > It seems like there should be a better solution than to cut > mozilla-devel from the download release since it is absolutely > essential for building any of the gecko based applications. Most of which are provided (I meant to build wxMozilla but didn't get to it ...). Anyway, if 1% of the users (and that's optimistic) are going to be building and hosting mozilla-related packages, I am sure they can download the 3MB -devel package. Instead of the -devel package, maybe there are other *real* applications that users, who have no idea how to compile gecko apps, will be able to use. Of course, mozilla is one of those packages that gets out-of-date pretty quickly, so in 3 weeks time you aren't going to want the -devel package from 1.4 any more ... Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/ZjEzrJK6UGDSBKcRAissAJ4sgpZZJe/hSNsJ/k7qf9cTh624HgCfWtc5 /ObOubk1rxv008hsW2qGZJo= =mZau -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
On Monday 15 September 2003 23:18, Ric Johnson wrote: > --- Götz Waschk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 05:05:01 Uhr MET, schrieb Ric > > > > Johnson: > > > Are you sure about that? That does not make any sense to me > > > considering the large number of non-essiential programs that > > > could have been removed and that mozilla is the default MDK > > > > web > > > > > browser since they dropped Netscape. > > > > AFAIK all packages have a score that marks it importance. Devel > > packages generally have a lower score than application > > packages. Most > > Joe Users don't build mozilla extensions but would be sad about > > a missing kde screensaver or one game less on the download > > edition's CDs. > > -- > > > :) > > Well, if "Joe Users" are paying for it, I suppose that is the way > it should be. Problem is that "Joe" wants the latest browser > widget too - maybe the latest Galeon - and expects somebody will > build it for them. That "somebody" is the guy that expects > mozilla-devel to be readily available... > It seems like there should be a better solution than to cut > mozilla-devel from the download release since it is absolutely > essential for building any of the gecko based applications. it's still available from all mirrors, joe user probably won't need the -devel package, nor know how to fetch packages from the mirrors, but that "somebody" guy is gonna build it, he probably knows exactly what package he needs and how to fetch it from the mirrors.. -- Regards, Per Øyvind Karlsen Sintrax Solutions http://www.sintrax.net - +47 41681061 GPG Key: http://sintrax.net/~hawkeye/key.asc
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
--- Buchan Milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ric Johnson wrote: > > > Precisely. > > > > So those who would build, e.g., galeon, get penalized in > favor of > > those who want to play frozen bubble(SEVEN MB) or > powermanga(SIX > > MB) or ...? > > Well, why do they need to build galeon, when it is included?? That's a joke, right? ( the length of the reasons is prohibitive and content inflamatory ) > > I know there is a space crunch but I seriously think that > > mozilla-* are not the items to be removed unless MDK is > changing > > the default browser suite. > > > > Mozilla has never been the default browser, Konqueror and > Galeon are. Sorry, BM, but you must not have been lurking around cooker/MDK long enuf 'cause mozilla was made the default browser when Netscape was dropped due (primarily) to the licensing/proprietary problems of including it in a *Free* distro. Also, if you took the time to look at Xsession file (where $BROWSER and $HELP_BROWSER get defined) you will see that (1) mozilla is at top of the list and (2) galeon & konqueror are not even in the list. (oddly, netscape is _still_ in it - go figure :) > > This may sound a little simple but why don't MDK take every game > > off of CD1, 2 & 3 and put them all on a 4th CD = "games.iso". > > At the very least, there will be room for mozilla-devel... > > (The marketing dept. might like that too.) > > At one stage the 3rd CD was supposed to be mainly devel stuff > ... It is still is " supposed to be " AFAIK but it has not yet quite got organized that way for multiple, reasonably valid reasons. I think that it would be easier to make the 3rd (or 4th A/R) ISO an 'entertainment' CD consisting of all games & their development rpms, the 'non-default' audio and video aps, the extra themes & icons that are packaged as 'extras' , and whatever else MDK decides is "entertainment"(currently most are in the MDK Group called "Amusement"). If there is too much empty space on the CD-ISO, it could also possibly contain any *new* experimental aps that work enuf to be part of the distro but are still in the development stage that keeps them from being really usable on daily basis(i would personally put epiphany, firebird and dillo in that category). It could also, maybe, include the aps that have rpms available, should have made it but could not be tested. That, in itself, would allow for last minute inclusions for the distro of items that did not make the freeze cutoff - OOo, XFce4, etc... Years back, there were not enuf games and what not to make a decently sized CD. I *think* there would be now. At the very least, it would allow the other 2 or 3 CD's to contain all the core *-devel so that developers who might *contribute* to MDK and/or Linux would not be inconvenienced. "Joe USer" has more time than "Joe Developer" to look for stuff. > anyway, my vote is for a 4th CD, for stuff that is absolutely > trivial (games, themes, etc etc). Then do it. :) IOW, somebody/developer with MDK just needs to sit down, reorganize the contents and present the results to MDK mgmnt. An "outsider" cannot do that. > Regards, > Buchan = [Signature] My email box is full of spam and signatures. Honestly, I have email that are 3/4 signatures and 1/4 content. A signature is neither a resume nor is it a place for you to include your personal philosphy about life in general. If you are one of those who do that, please stop sending me yours. ONE line is enough! __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
--- Götz Waschk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 05:05:01 Uhr MET, schrieb Ric > Johnson: > > Are you sure about that? That does not make any sense to me > > considering the large number of non-essiential programs that > > could have been removed and that mozilla is the default MDK > web > > browser since they dropped Netscape. > > AFAIK all packages have a score that marks it importance. Devel > packages generally have a lower score than application > packages. Most > Joe Users don't build mozilla extensions but would be sad about > a missing kde screensaver or one game less on the download > edition's CDs. > -- :) Well, if "Joe Users" are paying for it, I suppose that is the way it should be. Problem is that "Joe" wants the latest browser widget too - maybe the latest Galeon - and expects somebody will build it for them. That "somebody" is the guy that expects mozilla-devel to be readily available... It seems like there should be a better solution than to cut mozilla-devel from the download release since it is absolutely essential for building any of the gecko based applications. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ric Johnson wrote: > Precisely. > > So those who would build, e.g., galeon, get penalized in favor of > those who want to play frozen bubble(SEVEN MB) or powermanga(SIX > MB) or ...? Well, why do they need to build galeon, when it is included?? > > I know there is a space crunch but I seriously think that > mozilla-* are not the items to be removed unless MDK is changing > the default browser suite. > Mozilla has never been the default browser, Konqueror and Galeon are. > This may sound a little simple but why don't MDK take every game > off of CD1, 2 & 3 and put them all on a 4th CD = "games.iso". At > the very least, there will be room for mozilla-devel... > (The marketing dept. might like that too.) At one stage the 3rd CD was supposed to be mainly devel stuff ... anyway, my vote is for a 4th CD, for stuff that is absolutely trivial (games, themes, etc etc). Regards, Buchan - -- |--Another happy Mandrake Club member--| Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202 Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za GPG Key http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc 1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/ZbhPrJK6UGDSBKcRAqMDAKC0FCuhda3qF53QF6rSsXSmo5lJnACcCWNH eG9SxBsQ2ecXnUfe5AjDtpU= =VkPi -END PGP SIGNATURE- * Please click on http://www.cae.co.za/disclaimer.htm to read our e-mail disclaimer or send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a copy. *
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Ric Johnson wrote: > > --- Frederic Crozat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:05:01 -0700, Ric Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > --- Götz Waschk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 04:28:36 Uhr MET, schrieb Ric > > >> Johnson: > > >> > Why? > > >> Space constrains on the CDs. > > > > > > Are you sure about that? That does not make any sense to me > > > considering the large number of non-essiential programs that > > > could have been removed and that mozilla is the default MDK > > web > > > browser since they dropped Netscape. > > > > Mozilla-devel is useless for most people, unless you want to > > build apps which uses gecko.. > > Precisely. > > So those who would build, e.g., galeon, get penalized in favor of > those who want to play frozen bubble(SEVEN MB) or powermanga(SIX > MB) or ...? > Many developers like this simple games because much more work, like me. If you include game like Frozen Bubble, the game will be played by 50 of 100 users. If you include mozilla-devel, 2 of 100 users will be happy. Now compare it yourself... R.V.
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 13:48, Ric Johnson wrote: > --- Frederic Crozat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:05:01 -0700, Ric Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > --- Gtz Waschk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 04:28:36 Uhr MET, schrieb Ric > > >> Johnson: > > >> > Why? > > >> Space constrains on the CDs. > > > > > > Are you sure about that? That does not make any sense to me > > > considering the large number of non-essiential programs that > > > could have been removed and that mozilla is the default MDK > > web > > > browser since they dropped Netscape. > > > > Mozilla-devel is useless for most people, unless you want to > > build apps which uses gecko.. > > Precisely. > > So those who would build, e.g., galeon, get penalized in favor of > those who want to play frozen bubble(SEVEN MB) or powermanga(SIX > MB) or ...? Since Galeon is already packaged and included in main...yes. -- adamw
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
--- Frederic Crozat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:05:01 -0700, Ric Johnson wrote: > > > > > --- Götz Waschk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 04:28:36 Uhr MET, schrieb Ric > >> Johnson: > >> > Why? > >> Space constrains on the CDs. > > > > Are you sure about that? That does not make any sense to me > > considering the large number of non-essiential programs that > > could have been removed and that mozilla is the default MDK > web > > browser since they dropped Netscape. > > Mozilla-devel is useless for most people, unless you want to > build apps which uses gecko.. Precisely. So those who would build, e.g., galeon, get penalized in favor of those who want to play frozen bubble(SEVEN MB) or powermanga(SIX MB) or ...? I know there is a space crunch but I seriously think that mozilla-* are not the items to be removed unless MDK is changing the default browser suite. This may sound a little simple but why don't MDK take every game off of CD1, 2 & 3 and put them all on a 4th CD = "games.iso". At the very least, there will be room for mozilla-devel... (The marketing dept. might like that too.) > -- > Frederic Crozat > MandrakeSoft > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 05:05:01 Uhr MET, schrieb Ric Johnson: > Are you sure about that? That does not make any sense to me > considering the large number of non-essiential programs that > could have been removed and that mozilla is the default MDK web > browser since they dropped Netscape. AFAIK all packages have a score that marks it importance. Devel packages generally have a lower score than application packages. Most Joe Users don't build mozilla extensions but would be sad about a missing kde screensaver or one game less on the download edition's CDs. -- What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948), "Non-Violence in Peace and War"
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 05:05:01 -0700, Ric Johnson wrote: > > --- Götz Waschk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 04:28:36 Uhr MET, schrieb Ric >> Johnson: >> > Why? >> Space constrains on the CDs. > > Are you sure about that? That does not make any sense to me > considering the large number of non-essiential programs that > could have been removed and that mozilla is the default MDK web > browser since they dropped Netscape. Mozilla-devel is useless for most people, unless you want to build apps which uses gecko.. -- Frederic Crozat MandrakeSoft
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
--- Götz Waschk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 04:28:36 Uhr MET, schrieb Ric > Johnson: > > Why? > Space constrains on the CDs. Are you sure about that? That does not make any sense to me considering the large number of non-essiential programs that could have been removed and that mozilla is the default MDK web browser since they dropped Netscape. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Re: [Cooker] mozilla-devel not included with RC2
Am Montag, 15. September 2003, 04:28:36 Uhr MET, schrieb Ric Johnson: > Why? Space constrains on the CDs. -- What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948), "Non-Violence in Peace and War"
