[Coworking] Re: Ch-Ch-Change
On 5 Apr 2008, at 18:12, Tara Hunt wrote: Has anyone looked into the FireEagle API? I signed up. I want to get a public service up there when I am done with all this taxes billing stuff that I'm current embroiled in. Eugh! Tara On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 5:44 PM, James McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We get anywhere between 1 - 15 or so people, but that isn't as yet an issue as we have the capacity, but come the day it is, we have been working on a side project so that people can just ping us (probably via twitter) to see who is there and if there is space. James McCarthy http://thewerks.org.uk On 28 Mar 2008, at 23:46, Chris Messina wrote: We've never had too many people since we've been open. In some ways, this is why the reservation system proved to be unnecessary once we got underway. I was sure that having a reservation system would be necessary to assure people that they wouldn't be wasting their time if they showed up... turned out that we typically have 2-3 people most of the time, maybe up to 5, but rarely more than that. It could be because we don't do any promotion and people find out about us through the web or word or mouth, but it's just not been an issue. Now, *were* it to become an issue and we became insanely popular with 15-20 dropins showing up, that's different, but that would radically change our business, and make it worthwhile to invest in some kind of scheduling or charging scenario. One thing we've learned though, given how easy it is to build a custom Rails app these days, is to not prematurely optimize or to invest in behavior that may never materialize. It's almost as though you want to reach a pain threshold where you *must* take action... taking action in advance of something is a risk that a bootstrapped project probably should avoid, if only to limit wasting resources. Y'know? Now, that isn't to say that you *can't* build something like this, maybe to attract new folks, but we've seen personal connections and community tend to be *much* ways to build interest. Anyway...! ;) Chris On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 11:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks everyone, some food for thought there. A few of the models you mention I hadn't heard of. I'm wondering though, how are you planning to manage overcrowding on some days? If you have no schedule or booking and people are free to drop by any day, some days you'll have too many people no? Most of us are not running at full capacity yet but it will come and I'm wondering if these loose systems will work as well. Not that hour banks will fix that but wetter we change systems or not, we plan on a booking site so people can confirm a desk before heading here. The bigger advantage you mention for the day or half day systems is less management which, again, I'm afraid will lead to too many people on some days. Patrick -- Chris Messina Citizen-Participant Open Source Advocate-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412.225.1051 IM: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private -- tara 'miss rogue' hunt coFounder Citizen Agency (www.citizenagency.com) blog: www.horsepigcow.com phone: 415-694-1951 fax: 415-727-5335 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Coworking group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Ch-Ch-Change
Thanks everyone, some food for thought there. A few of the models you mention I hadn't heard of. I'm wondering though, how are you planning to manage overcrowding on some days? If you have no schedule or booking and people are free to drop by any day, some days you'll have too many people no? Most of us are not running at full capacity yet but it will come and I'm wondering if these loose systems will work as well. Not that hour banks will fix that but wetter we change systems or not, we plan on a booking site so people can confirm a desk before heading here. The bigger advantage you mention for the day or half day systems is less management which, again, I'm afraid will lead to too many people on some days. Patrick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Coworking group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Ch-Ch-Change
We've never had too many people since we've been open. In some ways, this is why the reservation system proved to be unnecessary once we got underway. I was sure that having a reservation system would be necessary to assure people that they wouldn't be wasting their time if they showed up... turned out that we typically have 2-3 people most of the time, maybe up to 5, but rarely more than that. It could be because we don't do any promotion and people find out about us through the web or word or mouth, but it's just not been an issue. Now, *were* it to become an issue and we became insanely popular with 15-20 dropins showing up, that's different, but that would radically change our business, and make it worthwhile to invest in some kind of scheduling or charging scenario. One thing we've learned though, given how easy it is to build a custom Rails app these days, is to not prematurely optimize or to invest in behavior that may never materialize. It's almost as though you want to reach a pain threshold where you *must* take action... taking action in advance of something is a risk that a bootstrapped project probably should avoid, if only to limit wasting resources. Y'know? Now, that isn't to say that you *can't* build something like this, maybe to attract new folks, but we've seen personal connections and community tend to be *much* ways to build interest. Anyway...! ;) Chris On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 11:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks everyone, some food for thought there. A few of the models you mention I hadn't heard of. I'm wondering though, how are you planning to manage overcrowding on some days? If you have no schedule or booking and people are free to drop by any day, some days you'll have too many people no? Most of us are not running at full capacity yet but it will come and I'm wondering if these loose systems will work as well. Not that hour banks will fix that but wetter we change systems or not, we plan on a booking site so people can confirm a desk before heading here. The bigger advantage you mention for the day or half day systems is less management which, again, I'm afraid will lead to too many people on some days. Patrick -- Chris Messina Citizen-Participant Open Source Advocate-at-Large Work: http://citizenagency.com Blog: http://factoryjoe.com/blog Cell: 412.225.1051 IM: factoryjoe This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Coworking group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Ch-Ch-Change
Agreed with Tara. We have some flexibility for our childcare side but for people using the office only, we have half day, full day, and monthly options. That's it. Most people by a 10 day pass and use when they need it. It seems to work. We have been open just over 2 months, so congrats to you. -Felicity cubescrayons coworking Just Cubes for coworkers without kids www.cubesandcrayons.com On Mar 26, 3:41 pm, Tara Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It sounds counter-intuitive, but we found that the more 'flexible' we made a membership, the less people were likely to use them. Now we have two memberships: you have desk or you are a drop-in. :) Our desks are all full and we have a waiting list. T On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 3:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We (Station C) have been open for nearly 2 months and we're wondering if maybe a change in our plan structure would make sense. I'll detail them further down this message -- and our new idea -- and you can give me your opinion based on those details but my basic question would be: most of you don't offer hourly plans for desks. Why? Right now we have resident members who have a reserved desk and full time access ($330/month), we'll keep those. We also have Flex 14 and Flex 28 memberships who pay $143 and $236 a month for 14 and 28 hours a week between 9am and 6pm, to be booked online (through email currently). Flex signups are a bit slower than expected (although we have more residents so we are a bit ahead of estimates overall) so we're thinking of retooling the Flex plans to Flex Points where members would buy bundles of points, something like 200 at $3.25/pt and use them whenever, again booked online, expiring after 6 months. 1 point for one desk hour, tbd number of points for meeting and conference room hours. We would also have smaller and larger bundles but the 200 would give members something similar to our current Flex 14 with the added bonus of more freedom, of skipping a week for a vacation or coming every day when in crunch mode. Space isn't an issue, logistics neither since we have the webapp for booking in the works anyway. The big disadvantage for us would be no recurrent cash entry or at least more spreadout and maybe more uncertain renewals as well as, in theory, the potential for more booking conflicts if everyone crunches at the same time. The big advantage would be for members who don't have to worry wetter they'll use 14 hours every week, the setup would be even more flexible for them. We would be gambling' that more flexibility and simplicity means more members and if we're right everyone would be happy. Last thing; we are also considering expanding business hours nights and saturday. Thoughts? Questions? Thx Patrick http://station-c.com -- tara 'miss rogue' hunt coFounder Citizen Agency (www.citizenagency.com) blog:www.horsepigcow.com phone: 415-694-1951 fax: 415-727-5335 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Coworking group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Ch-Ch-Change
Patrick We spent a lot of time thinking about our structure and as Alex has said, lots of talk of models has gone on. I think there are several dimensions in play here that should be taken into consideration; What are the working patterns of your clients / prospective clients Where do they fit on a Need Flexibility --- + Need to Belong kind of scale What prices make people come out of their home office starbucks without it becoming a I paid for it so I MUST use it guilt trip And finally the Peter Krug factor: how quickly can what's on offer be clearly understood We puzzled over these, but mostly we just opened up regularly which (by accident more than design) allowed us to observe these things interacting. In the end I came up with 3 models that seem to work for us; They are in the licence here: https://coworking.pbwiki.com/Licences+and+Agreements James On 26 Mar 2008, at 22:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We (Station C) have been open for nearly 2 months and we're wondering if maybe a change in our plan structure would make sense. I'll detail them further down this message -- and our new idea -- and you can give me your opinion based on those details but my basic question would be: most of you don't offer hourly plans for desks. Why? Right now we have resident members who have a reserved desk and full time access ($330/month), we'll keep those. We also have Flex 14 and Flex 28 memberships who pay $143 and $236 a month for 14 and 28 hours a week between 9am and 6pm, to be booked online (through email currently). Flex signups are a bit slower than expected (although we have more residents so we are a bit ahead of estimates overall) so we're thinking of retooling the Flex plans to Flex Points where members would buy bundles of points, something like 200 at $3.25/pt and use them whenever, again booked online, expiring after 6 months. 1 point for one desk hour, tbd number of points for meeting and conference room hours. We would also have smaller and larger bundles but the 200 would give members something similar to our current Flex 14 with the added bonus of more freedom, of skipping a week for a vacation or coming every day when in crunch mode. Space isn't an issue, logistics neither since we have the webapp for booking in the works anyway. The big disadvantage for us would be no recurrent cash entry or at least more spreadout and maybe more uncertain renewals as well as, in theory, the potential for more booking conflicts if everyone crunches at the same time. The big advantage would be for members who don't have to worry wetter they'll use 14 hours every week, the setup would be even more flexible for them. We would be gambling' that more flexibility and simplicity means more members and if we're right everyone would be happy. Last thing; we are also considering expanding business hours nights and saturday. Thoughts? Questions? Thx Patrick http://station-c.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Coworking group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Ch-Ch-Change
I would be interested in a worksite being available at night for those of us trying to carve out a moonlighting career in the evening. I also work out of my home a lot on weekends so I would want the site to be open on weekends too. On Mar 26, 6:37 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We (Station C) have been open for nearly 2 months and we're wondering if maybe a change in our plan structure would make sense. I'll detail them further down this message -- and our new idea -- and you can give me your opinion based on those details but my basic question would be: most of you don't offer hourly plans for desks. Why? Right now we have resident members who have a reserved desk and full time access ($330/month), we'll keep those. We also have Flex 14 and Flex 28 memberships who pay $143 and $236 a month for 14 and 28 hours a week between 9am and 6pm, to be booked online (through email currently). Flex signups are a bit slower than expected (although we have more residents so we are a bit ahead of estimates overall) so we're thinking of retooling the Flex plans to Flex Points where members would buy bundles of points, something like 200 at $3.25/pt and use them whenever, again booked online, expiring after 6 months. 1 point for one desk hour, tbd number of points for meeting and conference room hours. We would also have smaller and larger bundles but the 200 would give members something similar to our current Flex 14 with the added bonus of more freedom, of skipping a week for a vacation or coming every day when in crunch mode. Space isn't an issue, logistics neither since we have the webapp for booking in the works anyway. The big disadvantage for us would be no recurrent cash entry or at least more spreadout and maybe more uncertain renewals as well as, in theory, the potential for more booking conflicts if everyone crunches at the same time. The big advantage would be for members who don't have to worry wetter they'll use 14 hours every week, the setup would be even more flexible for them. We would be gambling' that more flexibility and simplicity means more members and if we're right everyone would be happy. Last thing; we are also considering expanding business hours nights and saturday. Thoughts? Questions? Thx Patrick http://station-c.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Coworking group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Ch-Ch-Change
On 26 Mar 2008, at 22:41, Tara Hunt wrote: It sounds counter-intuitive, but we found that the more 'flexible' we made a membership, the less people were likely to use them. Now we have two memberships: you have desk or you are a drop-in. :) Our desks are all full and we have a waiting list. +1 on this, I found the greater flexibility is in removing the need for coworkers to have to think too hard about what option and payments etc they have to choose so we settled on 3 offerings; Day Tripper: occasional and only during standard office hours (which is pretty lax in Brighton). No fee, but it is nice if you put something back in (whether in kind, a donation or just helping out another coworker). Regular Joe: 2-3 times a week during standard office hours. Paid subscription a month in advance $120 + Tax (60 GBP). Early Bird / Night Owl: 3-4 times a week, need to come and go outside of standard office hours, get own keys. Paid subscription $200 + Tax (100 GBP) plus key deposit $100. We don't track their time in detail it just adds overhead for us and the members, the easiest way is to trust to people honour and it is easy to spot if somebody is abusing the system. With a couple of regular standing subscriptions people know what they are paying, know the deal and don't have to spend any additional time during the month thinking about what they are paying for coworking, the more choices you give people, the more time they have to spend thinking about which choice they are going to make. So in a nutshell, I say, condense things down to the simplest couple of choices that people can make once a month or even offer 3 or 6 month subscriptions and then add to that flexibility so people don't feel they have to closely track their usage. James T On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 3:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We (Station C) have been open for nearly 2 months and we're wondering if maybe a change in our plan structure would make sense. I'll detail them further down this message -- and our new idea -- and you can give me your opinion based on those details but my basic question would be: most of you don't offer hourly plans for desks. Why? Right now we have resident members who have a reserved desk and full time access ($330/month), we'll keep those. We also have Flex 14 and Flex 28 memberships who pay $143 and $236 a month for 14 and 28 hours a week between 9am and 6pm, to be booked online (through email currently). Flex signups are a bit slower than expected (although we have more residents so we are a bit ahead of estimates overall) so we're thinking of retooling the Flex plans to Flex Points where members would buy bundles of points, something like 200 at $3.25/pt and use them whenever, again booked online, expiring after 6 months. 1 point for one desk hour, tbd number of points for meeting and conference room hours. We would also have smaller and larger bundles but the 200 would give members something similar to our current Flex 14 with the added bonus of more freedom, of skipping a week for a vacation or coming every day when in crunch mode. Space isn't an issue, logistics neither since we have the webapp for booking in the works anyway. The big disadvantage for us would be no recurrent cash entry or at least more spreadout and maybe more uncertain renewals as well as, in theory, the potential for more booking conflicts if everyone crunches at the same time. The big advantage would be for members who don't have to worry wetter they'll use 14 hours every week, the setup would be even more flexible for them. We would be gambling' that more flexibility and simplicity means more members and if we're right everyone would be happy. Last thing; we are also considering expanding business hours nights and saturday. Thoughts? Questions? Thx Patrick http://station-c.com -- tara 'miss rogue' hunt coFounder Citizen Agency (www.citizenagency.com) blog: www.horsepigcow.com phone: 415-694-1951 fax: 415-727-5335 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Coworking group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Coworking] Re: Ch-Ch-Change
It's a great issue, Patrick. Thanks for posting about it. It's important to ensure all of your potential members have a minimum barrier to entry. For us, wanting people to feel welcome also came with the sense that we don't want people to worry about their time here - we want them to focus on what they're here for - work (ok and community, but I'm focused on a point :)). So making them track hours or days/week didn't work for us - we have a very simple monthly or daily option. I think the important question to ask yourself is how much time management YOU want to be responsible for - do you want to have to manage the time of all of your members? Do you mind having to keep track of all of their time? Make sure you keep in mind the effect that changing your structure will have on you as the managers - it is nearly as important as the effect on your members. Keeping yourself sane in the madness that is starting your own space is key. The idea of punchcards makes life easy and keeps things flexible for members - puts the onus on them for knowing how much time (hours/days/ months) they've spent. I'd consider that as an option. As for evening/weekend hours, the way we take care of that is to give monthly members 24/7 access to the space. They get keycards and can let themselves in during off-hours. We have a process (albeit a developing one) and a little bit of paperwork in place to ensure that we are comfortable with the monthly members in the space, but the benefit of giving them full access is that we don't have to manage their time. The only hours we need to focus on are the 8:30 am - 6 pm hours we keep open for drop-ins. Pretty simple! Doesn't mean we're not here on nights and weekends, but in terms of managed time at the space, it is nice and regular for us. Good luck, and congrats on your first 2 months! Susan On Mar 27, 5:15 am, James McCarthy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 26 Mar 2008, at 22:41, Tara Hunt wrote: It sounds counter-intuitive, but we found that the more 'flexible' we made a membership, the less people were likely to use them. Now we have two memberships: you have desk or you are a drop-in. :) Our desks are all full and we have a waiting list. +1 on this, I found the greater flexibility is in removing the need for coworkers to have to think too hard about what option and payments etc they have to choose so we settled on 3 offerings; Day Tripper: occasional and only during standard office hours (which is pretty lax in Brighton). No fee, but it is nice if you put something back in (whether in kind, a donation or just helping out another coworker). Regular Joe: 2-3 times a week during standard office hours. Paid subscription a month in advance $120 + Tax (60 GBP). Early Bird / Night Owl: 3-4 times a week, need to come and go outside of standard office hours, get own keys. Paid subscription $200 + Tax (100 GBP) plus key deposit $100. We don't track their time in detail it just adds overhead for us and the members, the easiest way is to trust to people honour and it is easy to spot if somebody is abusing the system. With a couple of regular standing subscriptions people know what they are paying, know the deal and don't have to spend any additional time during the month thinking about what they are paying for coworking, the more choices you give people, the more time they have to spend thinking about which choice they are going to make. So in a nutshell, I say, condense things down to the simplest couple of choices that people can make once a month or even offer 3 or 6 month subscriptions and then add to that flexibility so people don't feel they have to closely track their usage. James T On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 3:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We (Station C) have been open for nearly 2 months and we're wondering if maybe a change in our plan structure would make sense. I'll detail them further down this message -- and our new idea -- and you can give me your opinion based on those details but my basic question would be: most of you don't offer hourly plans for desks. Why? Right now we have resident members who have a reserved desk and full time access ($330/month), we'll keep those. We also have Flex 14 and Flex 28 memberships who pay $143 and $236 a month for 14 and 28 hours a week between 9am and 6pm, to be booked online (through email currently). Flex signups are a bit slower than expected (although we have more residents so we are a bit ahead of estimates overall) so we're thinking of retooling the Flex plans to Flex Points where members would buy bundles of points, something like 200 at $3.25/pt and use them whenever, again booked online, expiring after 6 months. 1 point for one desk hour, tbd number of points for meeting and conference room hours. We would also have smaller and larger bundles but the 200 would give members something similar to
[Coworking] Re: Ch-Ch-Change
It sounds counter-intuitive, but we found that the more 'flexible' we made a membership, the less people were likely to use them. Now we have two memberships: you have desk or you are a drop-in. :) Our desks are all full and we have a waiting list. T On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 3:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We (Station C) have been open for nearly 2 months and we're wondering if maybe a change in our plan structure would make sense. I'll detail them further down this message -- and our new idea -- and you can give me your opinion based on those details but my basic question would be: most of you don't offer hourly plans for desks. Why? Right now we have resident members who have a reserved desk and full time access ($330/month), we'll keep those. We also have Flex 14 and Flex 28 memberships who pay $143 and $236 a month for 14 and 28 hours a week between 9am and 6pm, to be booked online (through email currently). Flex signups are a bit slower than expected (although we have more residents so we are a bit ahead of estimates overall) so we're thinking of retooling the Flex plans to Flex Points where members would buy bundles of points, something like 200 at $3.25/pt and use them whenever, again booked online, expiring after 6 months. 1 point for one desk hour, tbd number of points for meeting and conference room hours. We would also have smaller and larger bundles but the 200 would give members something similar to our current Flex 14 with the added bonus of more freedom, of skipping a week for a vacation or coming every day when in crunch mode. Space isn't an issue, logistics neither since we have the webapp for booking in the works anyway. The big disadvantage for us would be no recurrent cash entry or at least more spreadout and maybe more uncertain renewals as well as, in theory, the potential for more booking conflicts if everyone crunches at the same time. The big advantage would be for members who don't have to worry wetter they'll use 14 hours every week, the setup would be even more flexible for them. We would be gambling' that more flexibility and simplicity means more members and if we're right everyone would be happy. Last thing; we are also considering expanding business hours nights and saturday. Thoughts? Questions? Thx Patrick http://station-c.com -- tara 'miss rogue' hunt coFounder Citizen Agency (www.citizenagency.com) blog: www.horsepigcow.com phone: 415-694-1951 fax: 415-727-5335 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Coworking group. To post to this group, send email to coworking@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
