Re: UK searching traveler's disk drives for pornography (fwd)
this may well be an echo of an earlier story and that may or may not have been a hoax. If Ken Cukier really wrote the story, even if 2 years ago, there's a good chance it is accurate since Ken is usually pretty careful. vint At 10:51 PM 7/21/2000 -0500, John Kelsey wrote: Wasn't there a story very much like this, a year or two ago, that turned out to be a hoax? I suspect the Customs people could get away with all kinds of nonsense, but is there any independent documentation that they really are getting away with it right now? --John = I moved to a new MCI WorldCom facility on Nov 11, 1999 MCI WorldCom 22001 Loudoun County Parkway Building F2, Room 4115, ATTN: Vint Cerf Ashburn, VA 20147 Telephone (703) 886-1690 FAX (703) 886-0047 "INTERNET IS FOR EVERYONE!" See you at INET2000, Yokohama, Japan July 18-21, 2000 http://www.isoc.org/inet2000
Re: UK searching traveler's disk drives for pornography (fwd)
Wasn't there a story very much like this, a year or two ago, that turned out to be a hoax? Not that I have heard about. Ken Cukier's original story was confirmed by a UK Customs spokesperson: http://www.sightings.com/political/laptops.htm 'A spokesman for Customs and Excise said officials would routinely scan laptops for illegal material such as pornography. Encrypted files will be treated in the same way as a ordinary luggage. "So far as we are concerned, there is no difference between an encrypted file and a locked suitcase," said the spokesman. "All travellers entering the country should be prepared to have their equipment scanned."' I suspect the Customs people could get away with all kinds of nonsense, but is there any independent documentation that they really are getting away with it right now? I haven't heard anything further since Ken's report, but it may just be they've avoided journalists more effectively since then ;) Ian :)
Re: UK searching traveler's disk drives for pornography (fwd)
Wasn't there a story very much like this, a year or two ago, that turned out to be a hoax? I suspect the Customs people could get away with all kinds of nonsense, but is there any independent documentation that they really are getting away with it right now? --John
Re: UK searching traveler's disk drives for pornography (fwd)
David Honig writes: Again, if they have the 'right' (as border agents) then the technical difficulty translates into a battle of wills. A non-citizen would lose. A citizen *might* have a case but might also spend a few weeks in a Customs' hotel... Essentially, this means a storage medium not immediately readable by the customs (naked hard drives would certainly qualify) can be legally confiscated, at least in theory (somehow, I think they'll have to be pretty selective about it, as the screening alone will take too much time). I, also, would like to know how frequently this is being enforced in practice.
Re: UK searching traveler's disk drives for pornography (fwd)
At 02:14 PM 7/21/00 -0700, Eugene Leitl wrote: David Honig writes: But could they do that to an American returning to America? Sure, a brit returning to post-RIP britain is fresh meat. Or a furriner coming to America (who isn't yet on US soil). The point is rather, can they legally demand the passphrase for my hard drive with a cryptographic file system? I think its pretty clear they can, if you're not a citizen and not yet on official US territory. What about naked hard drives (I habitually lug computer hardware in disassembled state, when I change my country of residence) which are filled with random-looking bits? Hey, I could always claim I'm transporting a one-time pad ;) Again, if they have the 'right' (as border agents) then the technical difficulty translates into a battle of wills. A non-citizen would lose. A citizen *might* have a case but might also spend a few weeks in a Customs' hotel...
Re: UK searching traveler's disk drives for pornography (fwd)
"P.J. Ponder" wrote: Anyone know if the UK is still searching travelers' hard drives upon entry at Customs? [...] Vint Cerf wrote: This would appear to be an enormous invasion of privacy, so I draw [...] I am aware, of course, that standards for personal privacy may vary from country to country and culture to culture, but this particular practice strikes me as going far beyond any reasonable standard in as much as there seems to be no due process nor even application of the standard, at the least. Huh? Sorry if I'm missing something here, but as far as I know customs and immigration officials of all countries frequently will search all your belongings, and will do such things as read any notebooks, diaries, letters, etc., you might have on you. Certainly this is the case for foreigners entering the USA. I am a german national with permanent residency in the USA and I've had US customs read letters I had on me. I also know of a german girl who tried to enter on a tourist visa and was put on a plane back home when immigration read her diary and discovered that she was planning to work as an au pair. So what is different about reading hard drives? Basically it seems customs and immigration officials anywhere can and will search anything on or about your person at their discretion including hard drives---or for that matter, body cavities. National laws that protect your privacy do not seem to apply at border crossings. The interesting question (for this list) is, if some border officials search your hard drive and they encounter encrypted files, what will they do? My guess would be that they will demand the key and threaten to deny you entry if you don't give it to them. It does not appear that there are any international laws or standards that say they can't do that. - Jürgen
Re: UK searching traveler's disk drives for pornography (fwd)
At 12:29 AM 7/21/00 -0700, Jurgen Botz wrote: The interesting question (for this list) is, if some border officials search your hard drive and they encounter encrypted files, what will they do? My guess would be that they will demand the key and threaten to deny you entry if you don't give it to them. It does not appear that there are any international laws or standards that say they can't do that. But could they do that to an American returning to America? Sure, a brit returning to post-RIP britain is fresh meat. Or a furriner coming to America (who isn't yet on US soil).
