date:20050929


David Laakso wrote:
Seeking suggestions and/or referrals to long term in-patient 
psychiatric care facility. Or both.






For (lte) IE6:
pre {overflow-y: visible;}

...should work for you too...

regards
Georg
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[css-d] pre

2005-09-29 Thread David Laakso

I have been going a bit goofy trying to keep the pre stuff from going 
goofy. Particularly in the 'evil one' ('Accessibility' mode, ignore font 
sizes specified on Web page checked, @ text size-largest). Seeking  
suggestions and/or referrals to  long term in-patient psychiatric care 
facility. Or both.


Thanks.

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Re: [css-d] Vertically aligning image and text

2005-09-29 Thread Richard Grevers

On 9/30/05, JJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I need to display a map legend.  This consists of a vertical list of
> images with a text explanation (never more than a few words) immediately
> to the right of each image.  What is best way to display the image (26px
> tall) and then the text (about 12px tall) on the same line, with the text
> vertically aligned at the middle of each image?
>
This sounds pretty much like tabular data to me, so I think a table
would be appropriate. Tables even default to exactly the behaviour you
describe (vertical-align:middle) in nearly all browsers, and that
would be very difficult to achieve with floats unless you lock down
the text size.


--
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New Plymouth, New Zealand
Orphan Gmail invites free to good homes.
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RE: [css-d] Explanation of Spans

2005-09-29 Thread Jeff Rechten


I have been sing CSS for the last year and I feel fairly versed in
getting some rather complex sites up and validated. One thing I never
really wrapped my head around just yet is what circumstances
you would use a  style and what it is exactly
Anyways, please pass any explanations on. Thanks
Adam



I would say that I find myself using the  when I style something 
inside an inline element like a . Otherwise, I could see adding a 
 to almost any element, even block-level elements to add more 
specificity to a style sheet.

example:
[code]
If I want to style a page, I add a style sheet.
[/code]
Now, I can select the  inside the  element to style only the 
word "style" any way I choose.


I'm no expert, so what is a good example in adding a span inside a 
block-level element?


Jeff Rechten
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[css-d] Vertically aligning image and text

2005-09-29 Thread JJ

I need to display a map legend.  This consists of a vertical list of 
images with a text explanation (never more than a few words) immediately 
to the right of each image.  What is best way to display the image (26px 
tall) and then the text (about 12px tall) on the same line, with the text 
vertically aligned at the middle of each image? 


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[css-d] IE Gaps under horiz navs drivin me cwazy

2005-09-29 Thread cFA

Hey folks, Im havin a bear of a time trying to remove two approx 5px gaps
under my navcontainers (top nav and bottom)

here is the dev page:

http://aenonfiredesign.com/clients/pce/templates/exam.php

both of the unwanted gaps are below each nav.

you can check the page in firefox or safari to see how it should appear.

Ive tried alot of things and cant seem to budge it in IE

btw it has to look right in ie5pc as well, fortunately at the moment the gap
is the exact same size in ie5 and ie6 so hopefully one fix will cure both..

Thanks alot

-clint

--
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Re: [css-d] Scalable 2-col Product Display


L. Robinson wrote:

Should look like this:



Thumb   | Item No.
.   | Product Name
.   | Price
.   | Inventory
.   | Etc. & so forth


This should get you going:



regards
Georg
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[css-d] Suckerfish "menus" expanding slowly Mac/IE 5.2

2005-09-29 Thread css student

Hey ya'll

I have a suckerfish menu going that works fairly well accross every
5.0+browser apart from Mac IE
5.2

http://www.unausa.org/site/pp.asp?c=fvKRI8MPJpF&b=872193

There are some minor presentation glitches which I think I can work out. My
main issue is speed: it takes a long time to load nested 's when
mousingover it's  parent node.

As an IE browser, it's running the HTMLDog's sfHover() script that attaches
a class to 's, which is then controlled in the CSS, along with the hover
class used by non-IE browsers.

#nav li:hover ul ul, #nav li:hover ul ul ul, #nav li.sfhover ul ul, #nav
li.sfhover ul ul ul {
left: -999em;
}

I am thinking that the -999em is monkeywrenching MacIE5.2, but
perhaps the sfHover script is also causing slowdown when it
iterates through all the 's to attach a class to them.

Ignoring the scripting question, anyone see anything in my CSS (in above
document) that could be causing slow processing in Mac IE 5.2? Thanks

Stud.
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Re: [css-d] CSS input

> Hiya all
> Greetings from Downunder.
> Is there anyway to control how to style an input?
> what I mean by this is
> tell the difference between a button input and a textbox input?

CSS 2 attribute selectors help, but are not supported by MSIE
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/selector.html#q10

input[type="submit"] {
}
input [type="text"]{
}

This has been discussed here a lot of times:
http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/55230
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FormElements


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Re: [css-d] Flash, Video, CSS -- Can they live together?

2005-09-29 Thread Al Abut



but isn't there an issue with swfs, movies and forms rising to the 
"top"? I've struggled with this issue in designing, choosing to avoid 
the problem from the start by never allowing popup menus to overlap 
flash content or forms. I know you can hide stuff, but I find it 
easier just to design for the problem. Or not use flash. 


Yeah, I've had that problem, but tinkering around the Flash help files 
got me a solution that worked for IE/Win and Firefox - I got stumped on 
Safari and IE/Mac when we ran out of time, budget and patience to fix 
that part of it.



Al Abut
- - -
web designer, crimefighter,
http://alabut.com
- - -
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Re: [css-d] Flash, Video, CSS -- Can they live together?

> But when I'm designing
> XHTML for N+1 CSS files made by different designers, and some who want to
> add video and/or flash in addition to their images+CSS, I can't think of
> how to implement it, other than to give the designers the ability to put
> custom Javascript files up and auto-include them as well.
>
>
Your users want to add custom flash and videos? Then stand up to them and
say no. If you want to teach CSS, flash and videos are not relevant. If they
want to learn about implementing flash and videos, they can go look up the
appropriate references for that.
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Re: [css-d] Flash, Video, CSS -- Can they live together?

2005-09-29 Thread Donna Casey


Zoe M. Gillenwater wrote:

Isn't the video/Flash content, not "display gunk"?  Thus, it *should* be 
added into the XHTML markup of your page, using the element that was 
made for it: object.  Then, just use CSS to style or position the object 
as you like.


but isn't there an issue with swfs, movies and forms rising to the 
"top"? I've struggled with this issue in designing, choosing to avoid 
the problem from the start by never allowing popup menus to overlap 
flash content or forms. I know you can hide stuff, but I find it easier 
just to design for the problem. Or not use flash.


??
donna


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[css-d] CSS input

2005-09-29 Thread Abyss Information

Hiya all

Greetings from Downunder.

Is there anyway to control how to style an input?
what I mean by this is 

tell the difference between a button input and a textbox input?


because im stlying with

input
{
widht:xxxpx;
}

but that is affecting the buttons as well as the text box..the boxs look right 
but the buttons do not

I know i could use a class but im am wondering if there is something like

input text 
{

}

input submit
{

}

Thanks Abyss
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RE: [css-d] Unstable footer in IE

2005-09-29 Thread Duckworth, Nigel

> I put together this page: 
> http://www.myrenewell.com/balancesheet/2005/August 
> and am having trouble with the footer.  

Look at the output source of your page. It has severe structural
problems - the content div has another document in it, including header
and body tags [see below]. You need to sort that out before anything
else. I also think you're overdivving.

-Nigel

---



  
...
  

  


...
...




Welcome to myRenewell 


 
...

 







   

...
...   








  

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[css-d] Unstable footer in IE

2005-09-29 Thread Dave Dash

I put together this page:
http://www.myrenewell.com/balancesheet/2005/August

and am having trouble with the footer.  On my computer in IE and FF it
looks great.  On my coworker's computer it would inconsistently float up
into the content region  after reloading it might
look fine again.

 

I am suspicious because the content in the content region isn't under my
control (CSS wise), I may have to settle for an IFRAME or something, but
I'm not skilled in the way of iframes not am I fan of them, but they
could be useful here.

 

-d

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Re: [css-d] Flash, Video, CSS -- Can they live together?

2005-09-29 Thread Zoe M. Gillenwater


Peter Beckman wrote:


On Thu, 29 Sep 2005, Ben Curtis wrote:


On Sep 28, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Peter Beckman wrote:

I'm trying to build (as I mentioned earlier) a nice XHTML template 
which

designers can then use CSS to make pretty.

Unfortunately, some want to embed video and/or Flash into the page.  
Crap.
Now I have to add more divs and I have to add objects.  Now display 
gunk is

going into my XHTML code when I didn't want it there.




Isn't the video/Flash content, not "display gunk"?  Thus, it *should* be 
added into the XHTML markup of your page, using the element that was 
made for it: object.  Then, just use CSS to style or position the object 
as you like.



 Are there any solutions I haven't thought of?  If I was doing this for a
 single, static site, no problems, simple, easy.  But when I'm designing
 XHTML for N+1 CSS files made by different designers, and some who 
want to

 add video and/or flash in addition to their images+CSS, I can't think of
 how to implement it, other than to give the designers the ability to put
 custom Javascript files up and auto-include them as well.



Again, I'm guessing that your users are going to want Flash as 
*content,* so just train them how to embed Flash in a standards 
compliant way.  Easy peesy.



Are there any solutions that I haven't considered?  I assume you can't:

#myoffer2 { background-image:url(blah.swf); height:50px; 
width:50px; }




Now here, you've stopped talking about content and are talking about 
display.  So you want to make an animated movie of some sort into a 
background image?  I'm pretty sure you can't have a swf as a background 
image in your style sheet.  You could place the swf into the div 
directly and use positioning to layer the other content on top of it.  
Whether its a good idea to have an animated background is another matter 
entirely.


Again, it might help to have a real page with a real swf of the sort you 
imagine people are going to want to be embedding.  I bet they are not 
going to want them as background images, in which case your worries are 
unfounded. :-)


Zoe

--
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu

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RE: [css-d] Scalable 2-col Product Display

2005-09-29 Thread Pringle, Ron


> I need to list products in such a way that the number 
> displayed per row will
> adjust according to screen resolution set with a thumbnail 
> picture on the
> left and the item details on the right for each product 
> displayed. Sounds
> simple enough. Should look like this:
> 
> Thumb | Item No.
> . | Product Name
> . | Price
> . | Inventory
> . | Etc. & so forth
> 



Any ideas how to group 
> these without
> the product info wrapping? The barest example can be found here:
> http://www.yescoltd.com/products.htm 


I don't know if this will hold up under closer scrutiny or cross-browser,
but in your limited example, the following code worked:

.thumb {
border: 1px solid #ccc;
border: 0;
margin: 0;
padding: 3px;
float: left;
}
.partdesc {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
margin-left:35%;
}

If you know the finite max width of the thumbs, just insert it plus 10px
into the .partdesc margin-left property.

If this doesn't solve the problem, let me know and I'll work out a proper
solution (right floated with negative margins comes to mind).

Ron
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Re: [css-d] Scalable 2-col Product Display

2005-09-29 Thread matthijs

Maybe something like
.partdesc {
display: block;
margin: 0 0 0 100px;
padding: 0 0 0 0;
}
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RE: [css-d] Explanation of Spans

2005-09-29 Thread Pringle, Ron

Good point! I forgot to mention that I have to support IE5 as well, which
doesn't support the first letter pseudo element, which is why I opted to use
span instead.

My stats show that IE5 has dropped off in usage on our site considerably in
the past 6 months though, so maybe I can get away with not writing rules for
it.

Ron

> 
> This goes a bit off topic from the original post, but you can 
> change the
> first letter of a page without a span.  The p:first-letter works well,
> and you are free to replace "p" with another definition.  To get a bit
> more complicated, you can also select the first "p" of the 
> page and then
> the first letter of that "p", which would give you the 
> elasticity of no
> extra classes.
> 
> The w3school has a little bit more about it.
> http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_pseudo_elements.asp
> 
> 
> hope that helps.  :)
> 
> -Original Message-
> The only place in the entire municipal site that I manage that I use a
> span
> is for doing drop caps at the beginning of a page of text.
> 
> 
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Re: [css-d] Centering Floated Images

2005-09-29 Thread David Laakso


Matt Harris wrote:


I have a group of floated images which wrap to the next line as the page
width changes. Inevitably, a few stranglers will be on the bottom row, and
of course, they will be floated left. Is there a way to center these images
and achieve the same wrapping effect?
 


You might take a look at some of Bruno Fassino's imae galleries:

Best,
~dL

--
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com

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RE: [css-d] Explanation of Spans

2005-09-29 Thread CJ Larson

This goes a bit off topic from the original post, but you can change the
first letter of a page without a span.  The p:first-letter works well,
and you are free to replace "p" with another definition.  To get a bit
more complicated, you can also select the first "p" of the page and then
the first letter of that "p", which would give you the elasticity of no
extra classes.

The w3school has a little bit more about it.
http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_pseudo_elements.asp


hope that helps.  :)

-Original Message-
The only place in the entire municipal site that I manage that I use a
span
is for doing drop caps at the beginning of a page of text.

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[css-d] Scalable 2-col Product Display

2005-09-29 Thread L. Robinson

Greetings,

I need to list products in such a way that the number displayed per row will
adjust according to screen resolution set with a thumbnail picture on the
left and the item details on the right for each product displayed. Sounds
simple enough. Should look like this:

Thumb   | Item No.
.   | Product Name
.   | Price
.   | Inventory
.   | Etc. & so forth

First, I tried floating each display left in a fixed-width div with the
image floated left within. Works beautifully. Problem is that the thumbs are
different heights and info to the right of the thumbnail wraps around the
bottom of smaller thumbs like so:

Thumb   | Item No.
.   | Product Name
.   | Price
Inventory
Etc

I've tried putting both in divs with a fixed height. I've tried displaying
each product as an inline list. "white-space: nowrap" didn't do it (IE
wouldn't support that anyway), blah, blah. No matter what I try, that text
wraps.

Mid-level CSS skills and at wits end. Any ideas how to group these without
the product info wrapping? The barest example can be found here:
http://www.yescoltd.com/products.htm 

Assistance is most appreciated.

lr

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Re: [css-d] Flash, Video, CSS -- Can they live together?

2005-09-29 Thread Peter Beckman


On Thu, 29 Sep 2005, Ben Curtis wrote:


On Sep 28, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Peter Beckman wrote:


I'm trying to build (as I mentioned earlier) a nice XHTML template which
designers can then use CSS to make pretty.

Unfortunately, some want to embed video and/or Flash into the page.  Crap.
Now I have to add more divs and I have to add objects.  Now display gunk is
going into my XHTML code when I didn't want it there.

Any ways around it?  I *could* build a big PHP wrapper, but I don't like
the smell of it.  Am I just hosed?


Maybe you could give us a sample page of something with "display gunk" in it. 
I honestly don't see why you would need extra divs or any sort of 
presentational markup in order to display video or Flash. Objects are blocks 
that contain content, just like anything else.


 Given this code:

 



Hey There


Hey There




Get this now

Supporting text


Get this now

Supporting text



© 2005 by me


 

 Without changing this layout, and only using CSS, how to I get a video or
 a flash animation in there using only CSS?  Impossible?

 I do understand that I could include a JS file which would put my flash
 stuff on the correctly named IDs, but that means I have to give external
 developers access to JS as well.

 Basically what I'm talking about is similar to a "white label" site -- I
 provide the code (php + XHTML), you provide the look and feel (CSS).  This
 works great if you just want images, but adding video or flash for some
 "labelers" and not for others, makes my task difficult.

 Are there any solutions I haven't thought of?  If I was doing this for a
 single, static site, no problems, simple, easy.  But when I'm designing
 XHTML for N+1 CSS files made by different designers, and some who want to
 add video and/or flash in addition to their images+CSS, I can't think of
 how to implement it, other than to give the designers the ability to put
 custom Javascript files up and auto-include them as well.

 Are there any solutions that I haven't considered?  I assume you can't:

#myoffer2 { background-image:url(blah.swf); height:50px; width:50px; }

Beckman
---
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.purplecow.com/
---
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Re: [css-d] Dropdown menu with scrollbar (overflow: auto)?

On 9/29/05, Arno @ Raketnet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks Martin,
> I've been wondering about a good navigational structure, but there's
> somuch I need to list.
> Any advice then on what is could be
> the best a good css navigation approach when
> you need to list about 300 items?

That is not a CSS problem but Information Architecture.

For that amount of links my personal favourite is a directory index
(like yahoo) with a proper search functionality. There is just no
logical reason to display 300 links at once and offer the user to
reach each and every one of them. Sorting and offering drilldowns is a
good approach.

We had some discussion about this on a project lately:
http://www.wait-till-i.com/index.php?p=133

--
Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
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Re: [css-d] Explanation of Spans

2005-09-29 Thread fokuss

So would a span in your case be an appropriate  use for styling the 
drop cap inside a  tag where another DIV or whatever may be invalid 
code?


Basically a span is used within block elements in order to not conflict 
with the containing element?


That might make sense.

Adam

-Original Message-
From: Pringle, Ron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 'css-d@lists.css-discuss.org' 


Sent: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:32:23 -0500
Subject: RE: [css-d] Explanation of Spans



I have been sing CSS for the last year and I feel fairly versed in
getting some rather complex sites up and validated. One thing I never
really wrapped my head around just yet is what circumstances
you would
use a  style and what it is exactly.





Anyways, please pass any explanations on. Thanks

Adam


Adam-

I can't offer you a definitive explanation or a when to use and not use
spans, but I can offer you one real-world example.

The only place in the entire municipal site that I manage that I use a 
span

is for doing drop caps at the beginning of a page of text.

I enclose the first letter in the paragraph with a span and give it a
.dropcap class.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other uses of span except 
for

styling individual text characters within the body of a paragraph.

Ron

  
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RE: [css-d] Explanation of Spans

2005-09-29 Thread Pringle, Ron


> I have been sing CSS for the last year and I feel fairly versed in 
> getting some rather complex sites up and validated. One thing I never 
> really wrapped my head around just yet is what circumstances 
> you would 
> use a  style and what it is exactly.
 

 
> Anyways, please pass any explanations on. Thanks
> 
> Adam

Adam-

I can't offer you a definitive explanation or a when to use and not use
spans, but I can offer you one real-world example.

The only place in the entire municipal site that I manage that I use a span
is for doing drop caps at the beginning of a page of text.

I enclose the first letter in the paragraph with a span and give it a
.dropcap class.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other uses of span except for
styling individual text characters within the body of a paragraph.

Ron 
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RE: [css-d] Dropdown menu with scrollbar (overflow: auto)?

2005-09-29 Thread Arno @ Raketnet

Thanks Martin,
I've been wondering about a good navigational structure, but there's
somuch I need to list.
Any advice then on what is could be
the best a good css navigation approach when
you need to list about 300 items?


Arno


If you want my advice: Rethink the navigation structure. Keep it simple
and use breadcrumps.



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Re: [css-d] Can you do this with CSS? Layers and divs?

Some food for thought...

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo.html

http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo2.html

Maybe these can be applied to the situation?
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Re: [css-d] Centering Floated Images


Matt Harris wrote:
I have a group of floated images which wrap to the next line as the 
page width changes. Inevitably, a few stranglers will be on the 
bottom row, and of course, they will be floated left. Is there a way 
to center these images and achieve the same wrapping effect?


Don't float those images...

Something like:


.images {width: 99%/* not always needed */; text-align: center;}
.images img {border: solid 1px #bbb; margin: 3px;}





...



...should do just fine. At least it does at my end :-)

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] Explanation of Spans

2005-09-29 Thread fokuss

I have been sing CSS for the last year and I feel fairly versed in 
getting some rather complex sites up and validated. One thing I never 
really wrapped my head around just yet is what circumstances you would 
use a  style and what it is exactly.


I would appreciate any information. Its just ike when I was looking up 
Inline elements and Block elements. Some people just have rather 
abstract ways of explaining these things that don't clearly illustrat 
what they are and so on. Eventually I got it. I think I will chalk it 
up to not knowing the full extent of CS and it's powers.


Anyways, please pass any explanations on. Thanks

Adam
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Re: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

Wow, more problems...

testing Opera 8, first of all, huge FOUC (flash of unstyled content).
Should fix that.

second: when opening a section, that google ad box doesn't reposition
itself, until I scroll.

once again, Opera 8.

> Christian Heilmann wrote:
>
> > I would appreciate feedback on the upcoming redesign of onlinetools.org:
>
> > http://onlinetools.org/indx.php
>
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[css-d] IE/Mac 5.2 CSS Hiding From 5.1/5.0?

2005-09-29 Thread Tribou, Eric

Does anyone know of any CSS hacks to hide CSS from IE/Mac 5.1 and 5.0
but applies the CSS in IE/Mac 5.2?

I hacked together something that works, but it's a per-rule hack and
requires the same rule be repeated 3 times in a row. Is there anything
cleaner/better that I can use? Details on this are at
http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/exp/iemac5_version_hack.html

Thanks,

--
Eric Tribou
aka The Forgettable Mr. Ruthsarian
http://webhost.bridgew.edu/etribou/layouts/
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Re: [css-d] Flash, Video, CSS -- Can they live together?

2005-09-29 Thread Ben Curtis



On Sep 28, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Peter Beckman wrote:

I'm trying to build (as I mentioned earlier) a nice XHTML template  
which

designers can then use CSS to make pretty.

Unfortunately, some want to embed video and/or Flash into the  
page.  Crap.
Now I have to add more divs and I have to add objects.  Now display  
gunk is

going into my XHTML code when I didn't want it there.

Any ways around it?  I *could* build a big PHP wrapper, but I don't  
like

the smell of it.  Am I just hosed?



Maybe you could give us a sample page of something with "display  
gunk" in it. I honestly don't see why you would need extra divs or  
any sort of presentational markup in order to display video or Flash.  
Objects are blocks that contain content, just like anything else.


--

Ben Curtis : webwright
bivia : a personal web studio
http://www.bivia.com
v: (818) 507-6613




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Re: [css-d] Image based nav that meets AAA standards?

2005-09-29 Thread Dan_MailLists

Thanks all for the advice, tips and links. The em-sized images were 
interesting, but I don't think that's going to help with this case.


And I see that Christian has a point that maybe shooting for AAA standards 
is maybe a aiming a little high.


To clarify though, the AAA standards I was referring to are really what this 
page -

http://webxact.watchfire.com/
defines as 'Priority 3' - sorry about any confusion I may have caused there.

The Project Seven example fares well in the watchfire tests - but as pointed 
out becomes useless when you turn off images.


Working within the inherent limitations for accessibility that you have with 
images for text - maybe my best bet is to go old-school and use javascript 
for the rollover effect, adding alt/title texts to the images to make them 
as accessible as I can.


Thanks for the input,
Dan 



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Re: [css-d] Image based nav that meets AAA standards?

2005-09-29 Thread Al Sparber

From: "David Dorward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

On 29/09/05, Al Sparber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: "Dan_MailLists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

The designer is the ultimate determinant of whether and how a site
meets accessibility guidelines. There are too many nuances (and
opinions). That said, your best bet might be creative use of
background images with the actual link text present - but just tiny 
or
positioned off screeen. If CSS is disabled, the menu would display 
as

an ordinary list.

If CSS is enabled but images disabled, then the menu would display as
nothing at all.

Real (content) images with alt text is as close to accessible as you
can get when using text in graphics.

I agree - although the sequence of diablements you describe is most 
easily done with Firefox's Developer's Tools extension :-)

Embedded Images are still the better solution for the OP's issue.

--
Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday".

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Re: [css-d] Image based nav that meets AAA standards?

2005-09-29 Thread Alex Robinson


Nice context job. In any event, I won't post on the CSS-analD list because
you've obviously talen this subject off-topic and tired of being bistch-
slapped by the management (for lack of a better term).



Right.

Next person to post on this thread will be toast.

This thread was never on topic and now appears to be veering towards 
the usual unpleasantness that results when it (or any of its gruesome 
relations) rears its all too ugly head.


Let's make this clear.

  1. Accessibility is not CSS

  2. Structural markup is not CSS.

Questions about them on this list should be highly focused and 
practically oriented.


Otherwise, they belong on other lists. Of which there are numerous 
good ones - though issues of politeness and consideration apply in 
those places too.


For inspiration, take a look at the off topic page of the css-d wiki

   http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic



Alex Robinson
css-d moderator
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Re: [css-d] Centering Floated Images

2005-09-29 Thread Steve Clay

Thursday, September 29, 2005, 11:26:27 AM, Matt Harris wrote:
> I have a group of floated images which wrap to the next line as the page
> width changes. Inevitably, a few stranglers will be on the bottom row, and
> of course, they will be floated left. Is there a way to center these images
> and achieve the same wrapping effect?

Don't float.  IMGs are already inline, just leave em be and set
text-align:center on the container.  Use margins on the images to adjust
spacing.

Steve
-- 
http://mrclay.org/ : http://thefrenchhorns.com/

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Re: [css-d] Image based nav that meets AAA standards?

2005-09-29 Thread David Dorward

On 29/09/05, Al Sparber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Dan_MailLists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> The designer is the ultimate determinant of whether and how a site
> meets accessibility guidelines. There are too many nuances (and
> opinions). That said, your best bet might be creative use of
> background images with the actual link text present - but just tiny or
> positioned off screeen. If CSS is disabled, the menu would display as
> an ordinary list.

If CSS is enabled but images disabled, then the menu would display as
nothing at all.

Real (content) images with alt text is as close to accessible as you
can get when using text in graphics.

--
David Dorward 
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Re: [css-d] Image based nav that meets AAA standards?

2005-09-29 Thread Al Sparber


From: "Christian Heilmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> does anyone know a technique to allow me to use a graphical nav 
> bar,

> but that is Bobby AAA compliant - as well as the usual standards
> compliant and cross-browser compatible?

The designer is the ultimate determinant of whether and how a site
meets accessibility guidelines. There are too many nuances (and
opinions).


This is a true statement if you replace "the designer" with "your
visitors". As the designer you are far too close to the project to
fathom its usability and accessibility.



Nice context job. In any event, I won't post on the CSS-analD list 
because you've obviously talen this subject off-topic and tired of 
being bistch-slapped by the management (for lack of a better term).


You are a piece of work, you know that though, I'm sure. So how's the 
javascript department at the WaSP going :-)


LOL.

--
Al 


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[css-d] Centering Floated Images

2005-09-29 Thread Matt Harris

I have a group of floated images which wrap to the next line as the page
width changes. Inevitably, a few stranglers will be on the bottom row, and
of course, they will be floated left. Is there a way to center these images
and achieve the same wrapping effect?

For example I would like this:
---
| [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] |
| [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] |
| [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] |
| [IMG] [IMG] |
---

to appear like this:
---
| [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] |
| [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] |
| [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] |
| [IMG] [IMG] |
---

-
Current Code:
---

.imgwrapper {margin: 0 auto;}
.images {position: relative; padding: 20px; margin: 0 auto; clear: both;}
.images img {float: left; margin: 0 3px 3px 0;}
.clear {clear:both;}


















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Re: [css-d] Image based nav that meets AAA standards?

> > does anyone know a technique to allow me to use a graphical nav bar,
> > but that is Bobby AAA compliant - as well as the usual standards
> > compliant and cross-browser compatible?
>
> The designer is the ultimate determinant of whether and how a site
> meets accessibility guidelines. There are too many nuances (and
> opinions).

This is a true statement if you replace "the designer" with "your
visitors". As the designer you are far too close to the project to
fathom its usability and accessibility.

To follow the AAA level of the guidelines of the WCAG (Bobby has
nothing to with that) you need to ensure that

- all images need textual replacements - which can be the alternative
text applied via the alt attribute
- text can be resized (which makes pure image navigations a no-no, but
text with pretty background images work nicely)
- foreground and background colours need to have enough contrast and
be unambiguous even to the colourblind.

AAA is a pretty tough level of the WCAG to adhere to - IMHO almost
impossible, as there are many "must haves" in the guidelines that just
don't work in browsers nowadays (tabindex/accesskeys).

AAA also involves a user testing cycle, AFAIR.

--
Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
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Re: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

2005-09-29 Thread Felix Miata

Christian Heilmann wrote:
 
> I would appreciate feedback on the upcoming redesign of onlinetools.org:
 
> http://onlinetools.org/indx.php

I guess people don't pay any attention to sponsors anyway. :-p
http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/onlinetoolsnew1.png
-- 
"Cast your cares on the Lord and He will sustain you."
Psalm 55:22 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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Re: [css-d] Image based nav that meets AAA standards?

2005-09-29 Thread Steve Clay

Thursday, September 29, 2005, 10:13:32 AM, Dan_MailLists wrote:
> I did have a go at replacing the spacer gifs with real menu gifs - and
> making them invisible in the CSS to allow me to do the rollover via CSS -
> but that causes problems in Firefox.
> http://www.danwasthere.com/test_area/bfz/graphical_top_nav_2.html

I didn't peek into your construction method, but this also uses regular,
accessible IMG elements with CSS rollover action and I've not heard many
problems reported:  http://wd.mrclay.org/tests/rollovers/

If accessibility is most important you may also try sizing any small IMG
elements presenting text in ems.  You can see that here:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/tip_5.asp

Steve
-- 
http://mrclay.org/ : http://thefrenchhorns.com/

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[css-d] Select box widths in IE cut short

2005-09-29 Thread Charlie Law

Hi,

I am having problems styling select boxes. The site I am building has a
fixed design that leaves little flexibility for the size of select boxes. I
have set the widths using pixels in CSS which is fine and dandy.

The problems start occurring when the content is larger than the select
boxes i.e. the select box is 200px and the content is 300px. Unfortunately I
have no control over the size of the content within these boxes as its all
dynamically driven, and varies greatly in size.

The problem lies with IE which wont expand the options when it has focus,
thus cutting short any content that is larger than the width of the select
box. FF handles it lovely, which is what I am trying to achieve with IE, so
no matter the size of the content it will all be revealed when the select
box has focus, and will disappear once the focus is removed.

Any suggestions, I am guessing it will probably take a script (If this is
the case, does anyone know where I will find such a script).

Thanks Charlie.

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Re: [css-d] Image based nav that meets AAA standards?

2005-09-29 Thread Al Sparber



From: "Dan_MailLists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

does anyone know a technique to allow me to use a graphical nav bar, 
but that is Bobby AAA compliant - as well as the usual standards 
compliant and cross-browser compatible?


The designer is the ultimate determinant of whether and how a site 
meets accessibility guidelines. There are too many nuances (and 
opinions). That said, your best bet might be creative use of 
background images with the actual link text present - but just tiny or 
positioned off screeen. If CSS is disabled, the menu would display as 
an ordinary list. I'm sure others have examples to point you at, but 
this example might give you food for thought:


http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/navigation/pmm/rootimages/sample.htm

It's a pulldown menu, but the technique would work as well for a 
single root level.


HTH

Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

"Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday".



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Re: [css-d] Many requirements

2005-09-29 Thread T. R. Valentine

On 29/09/05, Gene Falck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> You wrote:
>
> >7) Try your hardest to never use SPAN again.
> >It's a very sloppy way of styling text. Using well
> >structured IDs, classes, and chosing the right CSS
> >selectors is much cleaner.
>
> Hmm. I have used SPAN for some things that I
> haven't thought up any better ways to do.

Ditto here.

For instance, how does one avoid a span tag for something like small
caps in the middle of a sentence (e.g. the 'A.D.' in a date)?

> I don't like the complexity of my markup very much
> but I don't agree with your characterization with
> the pejorative "sloppy" unless there is a simpler
> way to get my lines spaced evenly in spite of the
> fractionals and subscripts.

Ditto here.

> Any ideas for such a simpler way?

I'd also like to see suggestions that would eliminate the need for the
span tag. The tag hasn't (AFAIK) been deprecated which seems to
indicate an awareness of its necessity.

--
T. R. Valentine
Use a decent browser: Safari, Firefox, Mozilla, Opera
(Avoid IE like the plague it is)
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RE: [css-d] Stretching Too Much in IE

2005-09-29 Thread David Agnew


Using Mac OS 10.4.2, your page
looks fine in Safari 2.0.1

	looks good in Firefox 1.5 b1 - but the yellow lower portion 
of the chipotle box (only) protrudes to the right about 6px


	looks good in IE 5.2.3 - but to the right of both headlines 
(Iron Giant / I like Ray) is a white, borderless liquid box that 
covers the grey areas behind it.


I'll leave the fixes to someone with more experience than I.



http://www.christianziebarth.com/rent/mockup.html

I would like to get it to work in IE the way that it is in Netscape.
Anybody looking at this page in these two browsers should be able to
figure out what I am talking about but feel free to ask questions if
necessary. BTW, I have no idea how this page is performing in any Mac
browser. Thanks.

Christian Ziebarth

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Re: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

2005-09-29 Thread Thierry Koblentz

Christian Heilmann wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I would appreciate feedback on the upcoming redesign of
> onlinetools.org:
>
> http://onlinetools.org/indx.php

Looks nice...

I'd include a redundant navigation system at the very top of the document in
case JS is disabled. So users don't have to scroll to find out about general
content of the site.

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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[css-d] Image based nav that meets AAA standards?

2005-09-29 Thread Dan_MailLists


Hi all,

(I hope this doesn't come thru twice - I sent it first from the wrong email 
acc)


does anyone know a technique to allow me to use a graphical nav bar, but 
that is Bobby AAA compliant - as well as the usual standards compliant and 
cross-browser compatible?


I was going to go with this method as demo'ed here -

http://www.danwasthere.com/test_area/bfz/graphical_top_nav_1.html

Using a 'normal' browser that works how I want it to. But if you turn off 
the stylesheet then you get a list of spacer gifs as your top menu - not 
ideal. And the rules for Bobby A state that the site must be usable with 
styles turned off.


I did have a go at replacing the spacer gifs with real menu gifs - and 
making them invisible in the CSS to allow me to do the rollover via CSS - 
but that causes problems in Firefox.


example:
http://www.danwasthere.com/test_area/bfz/graphical_top_nav_2.html

Should I just go back to basics and do my rollovers via Javascript? Or does 
someone know a technique I can use to meet these needs?


Thanks for any help,

Dan. 



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Re: [css-d] Many requirements

2005-09-29 Thread Gene Falck


Hi Bob,

You wrote:


7) Try your hardest to never use SPAN again.
It's a very sloppy way of styling text. Using well
structured IDs, classes, and chosing the right CSS
selectors is much cleaner.


Hmm. I have used SPAN for some things that I
haven't thought up any better ways to do. The
biggest culprit is for styling numerators and
denominators of fractions, styling the similar
arrangements for size specification limits (when
they are not centered on the nominal value like
"+/- 0.005 in."), and subscripts in chemical
formulas. The use of SUP and SUB blows my line
spacing in running text--apparently the method
used to implement SUP and SUB hijacks the entire
line height and moves it up, thus bumping the line
down a little extra below the one above (SUP) or
bumping all the following text down (SUB).

I don't like the complexity of my markup very much
but I don't agree with your characterization with
the pejorative "sloppy" unless there is a simpler
way to get my lines spaced evenly in spite of the
fractionals and subscripts.

Any ideas for such a simpler way?

Regards,

Gene Falck
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

2005-09-29 Thread Rob Cochrane


Christian Heilmann wrote:

Hi there,

I would appreciate feedback on the upcoming redesign of onlinetools.org:

http://onlinetools.org/indx.php


--
Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
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Hello Christian,

Stunning site!

Issues:None basically from my browsers

Platform WINXP SP2:
FireFox 1.5 beta
On occasions when using wheel to scroll page the selection closes or 
opens. This I think is a FF1.5 beta implementation of JavaScript issue 
and not your site as it is fine in IE6 NN8 Opera 8.5 and Mozilla on Linux


Manages text sizing well and the site degrades well

Overall an excellent job showing structure, content, presentation and 
behaviour as they should be.


Well done
Rob
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Re: [css-d] Dropdown menu with scrollbar (overflow: auto)?

2005-09-29 Thread Martin Heiden

Arno,

on Thursday, September 29, 2005 at 15:32 Arno @ Raketnet wrote:

> Is it possible to create a css-based dropdown menu with a scrollbar?
> I'm revamping a website which has some (very) long submenu lists, which I
> don't all want to show when the dropdown drops down.
> Can the overflow: auto specification be added to a ul selector?

You could do that, but IMHO you shouldn't. First you may run into some
Firefox/Mozilla quirks with events over scrollable areas, and second:
Isn't it hard enough for the user to deal with the menus? Shall they
struggle with scrollbars in the menu too?

If you want my advice: Rethink the navigation structure. Keep it
simple and use breadcrumps.

regards

  Martin

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Re: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

Great, now the links don't open at all???

I'm using FF 1.5 Beta
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[css-d] a bug in IE 6.0??

2005-09-29 Thread victor NOAGBODJI

Souldn't border-bottom be applied to inline element since IE 5?? 
It doesn't seem to work with IE 6.0 there (I don't have IE 5to try the code).

// code (excerpt)
#header a { color: #6c6c6c; text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 1px solid 
#6c6c6c; }
...



 
 rencontres





please help.

Vic
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[css-d] Dropdown menu with scrollbar (overflow: auto)?

2005-09-29 Thread Arno @ Raketnet

Hi list

Is it possible to create a css-based dropdown menu with a scrollbar?
I'm revamping a website which has some (very) long submenu lists, which I
don't all want to show when the dropdown drops down.
Can the overflow: auto specification be added to a ul selector?



TIA
Arno

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RE: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

2005-09-29 Thread Shane Porter

> > seemed to have happened after trying to eliminate the Google Ads
> > overlay that was obscuring text, but since I can no longer see the
> > Stuff/Tools section, I can't repeat.
> 
> Yes, that seems to be an Opera Quirk, any idea how to prevent that? it
> seems that even with the latest opera the problem of slow re-rendering
> of the page persists.

Using Firefox 1.0.6 on Windows XP Service Pack 2 I've found that Google Ads 
seem to flash around and cause a problem on quite a few sites.


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Re: Re: [css-d] Mac and Linux checks please.

2005-09-29 Thread BJ




Well, it appears this fix fixed IE6 without breaking anything else- I'd 
appreciate one more go-round by the Safari and Konqueror crowd to make 
sure we finally have a winner.


And THANK YOU ALL once again.

Oh, and Philippe, re:
"More on 'hasLayout':

 "

You've already been "immortalized" (actually more than once) in my 
online bookmarks . . . which have been pretty heavily used by all my 
friends as well, from what the stats say *grin*




Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:



On 29 Sep 2005, at 8:15 pm, BJ wrote:

I was really afraid someone would tell me this. Okay, that display: 
inline-block; was a fix for IE6, and, after a few hours of trial and 
error, was the ONLY one that I could find that worked, and yes, I had 
tried other haslayout methods to get that &*%$ browser to behave, and 
still allow the other browsers I have to display properly. Without 
that inline-block declaration it works in every one of my windows 
browsers but IE6. Do you have any other ideas on how to make this 
work? I'd really appreciate any help and so would my neighbors, since 
I've already yelled myself hoarse on this.



Serve your neighbours a beer :-)

Seriously:
#path {
_height:0; /* hidden from others, using the underscore hack */
display:block;
 /* rest of styles */
}
seems to do what you're after on my local copy with IE 6/ XP-whatever 
running of VPC.

Adjust margins, etc...
At least if what Firefox displays is what you want.

Otherwise, use {display:inline-block} for IE only.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh








---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound says I'm squeaky clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0539-1, 09/27/2005
Tested on: 9/29/2005 9:13:10 AM


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Re: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

2005-09-29 Thread matthijs

One *small* detail: I didn't realise there was more information hidden
behind the navigation until I read the comments here. Why? Because I
often/almost always look at the status bar of my browser to look were links
take me ( that's probably a result of years of surfing and being taken all
over the place to places I don't want to be taken...). And in this case all
the navigation links point to index.php#
That's why I didn't click on the nav links... .

Will that change when the site is finished?
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Re: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

> >  > http://onlinetools.org/indx.php
> > When it loaded in FF Win 2K something very weird happened--I first saw
> > the Stuff / Tools section and then as I was starting to read it, it
> > disappeared. Same thing in IE Win 2K. That's not so good.
>
> Ditto in Opera 8.5/Win2k.
>
> Even worse, I was initially able to open the Stuff/Tools section, but
> after looking around, the section would *not* open (just a little gap
> [10px] of background would open) enough to read any content. This

That was just me fixing things :-)
Now the flashing should be a matter of the past. Dirty document.write
but it does the job

> seemed to have happened after trying to eliminate the Google Ads
> overlay that was obscuring text, but since I can no longer see the
> Stuff/Tools section, I can't repeat.

Yes, that seems to be an Opera Quirk, any idea how to prevent that? it
seems that even with the latest opera the problem of slow re-rendering
of the page persists.
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[css-d] Re: Online course to learn CSS

2005-09-29 Thread Laura Carlson

I took some cascading style sheets classes in 2002 though the 
International Webmasters Association/HTML Writers Guild.


The first class started with the basics and the second one taught how 
to do real things.


The last one, an advanced course taught by Eric A. Meyer, was very 
challenging and demanding. The course had quite a bit of CSS theory as 
well as practice that helped me to understand why browsers behave as 
they do, what should be happening, and how to try to turn things to an 
advantage.


Topics explored included: how selectors really work, why the cascade 
and specificity can turn your hair gray, techniques to overcome 
strangeness in line layout, media-specific and alternate styles, how 
DOCTYPE switching can make styling easier or harder, and a few ways to 
sneak past browser bugs without upsetting others.


I'm not sure who is currently teaching CSS at the International 
Webmasters Association/HTML Writers Guild and what is covered now but 
you could check it out at:

http://iwa-hwg.eclasses.org/

Also the Web Design Reference is a huge mega-reference (over 3,000 
links) of information and articles about web design and development. It 
has a full section of online CSS resources (plus accessibility, 
usability, web standards, and many related topics are covered).


The Web Design Reference URL is:
http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdesign/

CSS Section:
http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/css

CSS Books:
http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/books#css

You might also find the Web Design Update Newsletter helpful. The URL 
is:

http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdevlist

The newsletter is a plain text email digest that typically goes out 
once a week as an adjunct to the site.


All the Best,
Laura
___
Laura L. Carlson
Information Technology Systems and Services
University of Minnesota Duluth
Duluth, MN  55812-3009
http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdesign/
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Re: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

2005-09-29 Thread T. R. Valentine

On 29/09/05, Hershel Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > I would appreciate feedback on the upcoming redesign of onlinetools.org:
>
> Well then we'll see what we can do. :)
>
>  > http://onlinetools.org/indx.php
>
>
> When it loaded in FF Win 2K something very weird happened--I first saw
> the Stuff / Tools section and then as I was starting to read it, it
> disappeared. Same thing in IE Win 2K. That's not so good.

Ditto in Opera 8.5/Win2k.

Even worse, I was initially able to open the Stuff/Tools section, but
after looking around, the section would *not* open (just a little gap
[10px] of background would open) enough to read any content. This
seemed to have happened after trying to eliminate the Google Ads
overlay that was obscuring text, but since I can no longer see the
Stuff/Tools section, I can't repeat.

Not to be pendantic, but in the About section, the third paragraph begins:
'Under no circumstances you are allowed to change...' -- I think you
need to reverse the 'you' and the 'are'. :-)

--
T. R. Valentine
Use a decent browser: Safari, Firefox, Mozilla, Opera
(Avoid IE like the plague it is)
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[css-d] RE: cross-browser display problems

2005-09-29 Thread JOE HODGE

Ok. Got several helpful answers on the mailto issue. I believe I thanked
all who replied off-list but if I forgot, thanks. Did find part of the
problem. The first thing after the mailto address should be a ? not an
&. The ampersand is used between any subsequent items such as CC, BCC,
etc. But, changing the & to & there is good advice.

Any ideas on the browser issues?

Wife found a solution to the divs not being positioned correctly. Not
sure why but it works. Anyone know why? Changed the overall container
from...

div.container
{
 background-color: transparent;
 border-color: #00;
 border-style: solid;
 border-width: 0;
 margin: 0;
 padding: 0;
 text-align: center;
 width: 700px;
}

to...

div.container
{
 background-color: transparent;
 border-color: #00;
 border-style: solid;
 border-width: 0;
 margin-right: auto;
 margin-left: auto;
 padding: 0;
 text-align: center;
 width: 700px;
}

Only two issues left are the horizontal rules have changed colors and
the menu to the side has gaps. The hr is...

hr
{
 color: #968354;
 margin: 5px;
 text-align: center;
 width: 75%;
}

It was centered and a golden tan like color before making the change to
div.container. Now it is left justified and blue. The alignment issue I
believe is a matter of the hr being moved from the header div (which is
text-align: center;) to the full width content div (div.contentfull is
text-align: left;). Can anyone out there correct/enlighten me? Is the
color change caused by the same thing? Is the hr inheriting the color
and alignment from the div it is in rather than what is coded to it?
Think I may have found the solution to the hr problem...

Found the following on www.w3schools.com...

***
All "presentation attributes" of the hr element were deprecated in HTML
4.01.

All "presentation attributes" of the hr element are not supported in
XHTML 1.0 Strict DTD.
***

And, since the site uses the XHTML 1.0 Strict DTD... So, would creating
a span class for it work? In the CSS create the following style...

.hr
{
 color: #968354;
 margin: 5px;
 text-align: center;
 width: 75%;
}

Not sure if the width will work but the rest should.

In the html add...

 

...around the 

Again, can anyone out there correct/enlighten me?

Only real issue that has me stumped is the menu and the gaps in it. It
is made up of three divs. The menu border is really a graphic. Each div
has a part of the graphic set as a background. Like what is done in old
table layouts.

I am on digest so any direct replies would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much,
Joseph L. Hodge
www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com

"'Ignorantque datos, ne quisquam serviat, enses.'
And they are ignorant that the purpose of the sword is to save every man
from slavery."
- Lucanus (A.D. 39-65), De Bello Civili

-Original Message-
From: JOE HODGE 
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:13 AM
To: 'css-d@lists.css-discuss.org'
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: cross-browser display problems

Ok, working on my third CSS styled site and have hit a major snafu.
First two render well enough in FF, NS, and MSIE/Win [1]. Have not
checked them in other browsers.

The current project [2] renders fine in MSIE/Win but is completely out
of whack in FF or Netscape. Not sure why the difference between the
first two sites and this one. In all honesty, the first two are even a
bit more complex. None of the three do anything fancy. CSS validates
good at the W3C site. Any help, suggestions, or comments are
appreciated.

The current project validates (at the W3C site) as strict XHTML 1.0
except for the two items below and the CSS validates good.

As an aside and since I am here, I tried validating the xhtml of the
current project and get a bunch of errors/warnings about not using
target="_blank" with links. I know target= is not supposed to be used
but I do _not_ want links to other sites opening in the same window.

I also get a bunch of errors/warnings for using mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]&subject=The Indigo
Connection Website">. Seems it does not like the last part where it
fills in the subject for the user. Again, just a personal preference but
I want to be able to fill in the subject line on mailto. It makes things
much easier for the client and the user can always change the subject if
they want to.

Is there any way to keep the functionality of these two items and have
valid xhtml?

[1] http://www.fundamentalsoffreedom.com/index.php the other site is not
yet live on the net.

[2] page:   http://www.copperpennydesigns.com/tic/index.htm
css:
http://www.copperpennydesigns.com/tic/css/indigoc-screen.css

http://www.copperpennydesigns.com/tic/css/indigoc-print.css

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Re: [css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

2005-09-29 Thread Hershel Robinson


> I would appreciate feedback on the upcoming redesign of onlinetools.org:

Well then we'll see what we can do. :)

> http://onlinetools.org/indx.php


When it loaded in FF Win 2K something very weird happened--I first saw 
the Stuff / Tools section and then as I was starting to read it, it 
disappeared. Same thing in IE Win 2K. That's not so good.


When I move my mouse around the Latest Blog entries (and Articles) in 
FF, every so often the whole box flashes white. Weird.


The Sponsors section is a bit prominent IMO and ads a bit of 
commercialness to an otherwise pleasant site.


In the Stuff / Tools section, the rollovers are cute, but in the default 
state, it's a bit hard for me to read as the text is quite light in color.


I would suggest that when opening one section (like Contact) that maybe 
the others should close. As it is, I had all open and the page became 
quite large.


Overal the concept is very nice, but it needs a bit more work. :)

Hershel

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[css-d] Site check: Onlinetools.org redesign

Hi there,

I would appreciate feedback on the upcoming redesign of onlinetools.org:

http://onlinetools.org/indx.php


--
Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
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Re: [css-d] Online course to learn CSS?

2005-09-29 Thread Bob Easton


Donna French wrote:

Can someone recommend an online course to learn CSS? I have picked up
enough to be dangerous and would like to redesign the company web site
to fully take advantage of CSS.



At the bottom of every single post to this list, find a link to "List 
WIKI FAQ."  That WIKI holds a goodly number of pages with a tremendous 
number of answers.  Among those is a page full of reference links for 
learning CSS, including most of those just suggested.


--
Bob Easton
Accessibility Matters: http://access-matters.com

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Re: [css-d] Many requirements

2005-09-29 Thread Bob Easton

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Is it possible to set this page up so that they two gray boxes (Iron Giant is Good, I Like Ray Liotta)
stretch with the width of the browser window while keeping the same amount of space inbetween the two boxes
*and* so that the two gray lines below "How?s The Weather in Brazil?" and "Aquaman is Not a
Good Superhero" stretch as well with their right edges and the right edge of the text beginning with
"More than 75% . . . " always at the same point of the far right edge of the Ray Liotta box? Some
of this is presenting tabular data so tables are necessary at some point but is there a way to use less
tables than I have now while keeping everything faithful to the mockup? I am going to try to work out
solutions to all this but suggestions are appreciated. Thanks

http://www.christianziebarth.com/rent/mockup.html

based on:

http://www.christianziebarth.com/rent/mockup.gif

The strategy for doing this in a way that minimizes tables for layout is
the following:

1) Learn about multi-column layouts from the 2-col and 3-col pages in
our WIKI. (The WIKI link is at the bottom of ecery positing.) The goal
is to have a content container that has its width expressed as a
percentage of the page width, so it will be flexible

2) Leave the top two boxes (Iron giant, and I like Ray) in tables. You
can learn later how to do them with less markup. When you want to take
that step consult our WIKI for a page about rounded corners.

3) Float those top two tables left within the content container. Give
each of them a width of 50% so they sit side by side. For safety in
browsers which have rounding errors, make one of them width:49%.

4) Clear the float. This is VERY IMPORTANT and is the solution to a
great many of the questions listed here. Again, consult the WIKI, read
Eric's article on containg floats (a) and Big John's clearfix technique (b).

5) Code the orange lines as headings. They are semantically headings,
not just orange text. Style them with a border-bottom, and indent their
text with padding-left.

6) Code the text under the headings as paragraphs, again being
sematically correct. Style the paragraphs to have left and right
padding to produce the indentation you want.

7) Try your hardest to never use SPAN again. It's a very sloppy way of
styling text. Using well structured IDs, classes, and chosing the right
CSS selectors is much cleaner. (Again, class and ID info in the WIKI.)

(a) http://www.complexspiral.com/publications/containing-floats/
(b) http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html

--
Bob Easton
Accessibility Matters: http://access-matters.com

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Re: [css-d] Stretching Too Much in IE


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


http://www.christianziebarth.com/rent/mockup.html

I would like to get it to work in IE the way that it is in Netscape.


Change to:
#brownish { position: absolute;
top: 10px;
left: 10px;
width: 178px;
overflow: hidden;
z-index: 2;}

#grayish { position: absolute;
top: 10px;
left: 200px;
_left: 0px;
z-index: 1;
_padding-left: 200px;
}
...mind the leading underscores for IE/win, and replace them by using a
'conditional comment' to feed those values to IE/win if you like to play
safe

Since 'position: absolute' is used extensively, the layout becomes very
weak in all browsers. Breaks when any degree of  font-resizing is applied.
Apart from that it looks more or less the same in Opera, Firefox,
Safari, iCab and IE6, and not too far off in IE/Mac.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Stretching Too Much in IE

2005-09-29 Thread Rob Cochrane


 In NS 7.2 everything fits perfectly without the need for
horizontal scrolling but in IE6 it stretches out beyond the natural 
right border:


http://www.christianziebarth.com/rent/mockup.html


Hi,

I have viewed it on WinXP SP2 in :
IE 6
NN 8
Opera 8.5
FF 1.5
and even in Amaya 9.2.2

and it is identical in all when resizing to 800x600 all of them require 
a horizontal scollbar


On Mozilla 1.6 on Xandros Linux it forces a scroll bar and runs off the 
right edge.

I will look at it during the morning and post anything I find.

Rob




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[css-d] CSS Swag: Multi-Column Lists

2005-09-29 Thread Paul Novitski

I'd like to draw your attention to an article of mine in issue 204 of 
A List Apart:


CSS Swag: Multi-Column Lists
http://alistapart.com/articles/multicolumnlists/

Your comments are welcome.

Thanks,
Paul

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[css-d] Stretching Too Much in IE

2005-09-29 Thread christianz

I mentioned this page earlier and some problems I'd been having with it 
but I got the majority of those problems worked out on my own (so 
fortunately nobody responded to my prior questions) but now I need some 
real help. In NS 7.2 everything fits perfectly without the need for 
horizontal scrolling but in IE6 it stretches out beyond the natural 
right border:


http://www.christianziebarth.com/rent/mockup.html

I would like to get it to work in IE the way that it is in Netscape. 
Anybody looking at this page in these two browsers should be able to 
figure out what I am talking about but feel free to ask questions if 
necessary. BTW, I have no idea how this page is performing in any Mac 
browser. Thanks.


Christian Ziebarth
__
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delivered to you without ever leaving the Top Home Page. And the new 
Tool Box gives you one click access to local Movie times, Maps, White 
Pages and more.  See for yourself at 
http://netcenter.netscape.com/netcenter/


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Re: [css-d] cross-browser display problems

2005-09-29 Thread david


Pringle, Ron wrote:


I also get a bunch of errors/warnings for using mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]&subject=The Indigo
Connection Website">. Seems it does not like the last part where it
fills in the subject for the user. Again, just a personal 
preference but
I want to be able to fill in the subject line on mailto. It 
makes things
much easier for the client and the user can always change the 
subject if

they want to.


Probably it is complaining about the Ampersand. You should encode that like
& instead of &. So your href would then be:

 href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]&subject=The Indigo
Connection Website"


Hmmm, I seem to recall that the standard "separation" character in a 
mailto link is the questionmark?


href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Indigo 
Connection Website"


Also, I think you need to encode the spaces in the subject as %20, right?

--
David
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authenticity, honesty, community
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Re: [css-d] Can you do this with CSS? Layers and divs?