[css-d] IE Bug - New to me.

2005-11-21 Thread Phil Baines
Hi folks,
 
I’ve stumbled across this new IE bug, or at least one that is new to me. I
just wondered if anyone could point me in a good direction over it.
 
I have this CSS:
 
  #imageBanner.bakery{
   background: #0066FF
/*url(images/graphics/bannerBakery.jpg) no-repeat*/;
  }
  #imageBanner.beverages{
   background: #00CC33
/*url(images/graphics/bannerBeverages.jpg) no-repeat*/;
  }
  #imageBanner.confectionary{
   background: #CCFF00
/*url(images/graphics/bannerConfectionary.jpg) no-repeat*/;
  }
  #imageBanner.dairy{
   background: #CC0099
/*url(images/graphics/bannerdairy.jpg) no-repeat*/;
}
 
And I have four separate pages, each with a DIV that matches the above
selectors. Now for some reason only the first of these classes’ works
(#imageBanner.bakery). If I move one of the others to the top it will start
working, but all the others remain not working. 
 
I have put together an example of this:
HYPERLINK http://dev.netring.co.uk/iebug/http://dev.netring.co.uk/iebug/
css file is here: HYPERLINK
http://dev.netring.co.uk/iebug/isbug.csshttp://dev.netring.co.uk/iebug/isb
ug.css 
 
Any ideas what the cause is? Seen it before? 
 
I have tried using a class type instead of the ID (class=”imageBanner
bakery” istead of id=”imageBanner”) but I want to avoid the IE bugs that get
triggered with two or more hooks being used in the class attribute.
 
Any help would be very much appreciated. 
 
Best Regards,
Phil Baines
 
Netring media and technology
website: HYPERLINK http://www.netring.co.ukwww.netring.co.uk
telephone: 01239 711 471
 

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Re: [css-d] IE Bug - New to me.

2005-11-21 Thread Eystein Mack Alnæs


 I have put together an example of this:
 HYPERLINK http://dev.netring.co.uk/iebug/http://dev.netring.co.uk/ 
 iebug/
 css file is here: HYPERLINK
 http://dev.netring.co.uk/iebug/isbug.csshttp://dev.netring.co.uk/ 
 iebug/isb
 ug.css


I get a Directory Listing Denied - This Virtual Directory does not  
allow contents to be listed on your link. I get access to the css  
file though.

eystein
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Re: [css-d] IE Bug - New to me.

2005-11-21 Thread Eystein Mack Alnæs

On Nov 21, 2005, at 11:14 AM, Phil Baines wrote:

 http://dev.netring.co.uk/iebug/index.html

Strange indeed. I couldn't get around it any other way then by  
separating them, and you don't need to change the html.   Do you need  
to have the id and class together in the css syntax?

#imageBanner  {
font-size: 10px;
}   

.bakery {
background-color: #0066FF;
}   
.beverages {
background-color: #00CC33 ;
}
.confectionary{
background-color: #CCFF00;
}
.dairy{
background-color: #CC0099;
}

eystein
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[css-d] always having this Problem with IE and linebreaks

2005-11-21 Thread Jan Milz
Hi,
i try to solve this problem for a long time now:

its described here:
http://www.beltundsund.de/cssd/test.htm

IE scales boxes higher as they are if a line break occurs in the code.
removing the line break often solves it, but i dont undertand it at all ...

maybe someone can help me out

greetz jan

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Re: [css-d] IE Bug - New to me.

2005-11-21 Thread Ingo Chao
Phil Baines wrote:
   I have this CSS:
  
   #imageBanner.bakery{
background: #0066FF
 /*url(images/graphics/bannerBakery.jpg) no-repeat*/;
   }
...
   #imageBanner.dairy{
background: #CC0099
 /*url(images/graphics/bannerdairy.jpg) no-repeat*/;
 }
  
 And I have four separate pages, each with a DIV that matches the above
 selectors. Now for some reason only the first of these classes’ works
 (#imageBanner.bakery). If I move one of the others to the top it will start
 working, but all the others remain not working. 
...
  
 I have tried using a class type instead of the ID (class=”imageBanner
 bakery” istead of id=”imageBanner”) but I want to avoid the IE bugs that get
 triggered with two or more hooks being used in the class attribute.


but id.class is buggy too in IE6

http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/65843
http://sonspring.com/journal/ie6-multi-class-bug

Ingo
-- 
http://www.satzansatz.de/css.html
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Re: [css-d] always having this Problem with IE and linebreaks

2005-11-21 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Jan Milz wrote:

 http://www.beltundsund.de/cssd/test.htm
 
 IE scales boxes higher as they are if a line break occurs in the 
 code. removing the line break often solves it, but i dont undertand 
 it at all ...

not empty or not full - IE/win can't make up its buggy mind...

Putting a comment inside the empty div makes IE/win _treat it_ as empty.
Otherwise it will treat it as if it had text inside.

So this is the cure:

div class=rightBoxTop!-- --/div

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Unable to fix p font size in specific class

2005-11-21 Thread M. Othman
Thank you Rahul, Roger and Georg for your answers.

It makes sense of course that users should be in control of their browsers
(text sizes etc) but that actually causes a problem with positioning in
general.

Perhaps I will start looking for an alternative way to keep the layout fixed
even when the text size is enlarged (or reduced) by users.

Best regards,

Mohammed

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Re: [css-d] Unable to fix p font size in specific class

2005-11-21 Thread Roger Roelofs
Mohammed,

On Nov 21, 2005, at 7:10 AM, M. Othman wrote:

 Thank you Rahul, Roger and Georg for your answers.

 It makes sense of course that users should be in control of their 
 browsers
 (text sizes etc) but that actually causes a problem with positioning in
 general.

 Perhaps I will start looking for an alternative way to keep the layout 
 fixed
 even when the text size is enlarged (or reduced) by users.

If you could give us a url to your current page we could provide 
suggestions about how to get the layout you want.  We're here to help, 
not just tell you you can't do that  :-)


Roger,

Roger Roelofs
Measure twice, cut once
-- Dutch proverb

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[css-d] problem with Mac IE 5 (poss 6): apparent transparency of layers

2005-11-21 Thread Giles Clark
I am testing a layout for a client.

http://www.4midable.net/tpt/website/index.htm
http://www.4midable.net/tpt/website/tptstyle.css

Both css and xhtml validate. BUT
When viewed using IE5 on a MAC there seems to be an odd sort of transparency
issue with the first menu drop down, under SOLUTIONS. It does not happen
with Safari.

The menu drops down over, and it is over, the Hello World bloc. I can
still click on the drop down hence I can confirm it is over the other layer,
but I get a show through of the left column header and some of the text.

Couple of questions;

1. does this happen in IE6/firefox
2. can anyone offer a resonable solution?

Any help much appreciated.

Giles

Splash! PR  Marketing


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Re: [css-d] Strange Drop Down Behavior

2005-11-21 Thread Tod
Al Sparber wrote:

From: Tod [EMAIL PROTECTED]


  

My goal is to have a dynamically generated three level vertical 
dropdown with the top menu items being variable length and each 
separated by the same amount of space. I'd also like it to be as 
browser agnostic as possible.

I am following the dropdown guide at
http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns. Everything works fine 
but
I found something a little quirky that is throwing me.

The li tag width is a constant of 10em.  I decided that since I 
can't always guarantee the text size of my list items I would try 
and design things to be as flexible as possible. To accomplish this 
I tried setting my width to auto. That works nicely with variable 
length text but when I hover over a menu item the dropdown menu 
appears horizontal instead of vertical.

I'm new at this so I think there might be a good approach that I'm 
not aware of. Any guidance would be appreciated.




Hi Tod,

While this links go to a help topic for our menu system, the technique 
used would most likely work for any cascading list menu with 
horizontal root items:

http://www.projectseven.com/products/menusystems/pmm/user_guide/styling/menu_widths/hz_root_varwidth.htm

Al Sparber
PVII
  

YES!!  That worked, thank you for the advice.

Tod
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Re: [css-d] CSS and HTML emails

2005-11-21 Thread Eric Shepherd
Unfortunately (for us at least, as I prefer plain text email as well)
there's data that suggests that click-thru rates are much higher with
HTML email...in the case of selling toys, we get to put images in the
email, with nice beveled (*hehe*) see it in action demo buttons, and
the various product images really do get people to click through to
the website.

I wish it weren't so, but even I have to put aside my idealism on this
topic. I'm not the target audience for my company; the target audience
likes their HTML email. If I were to push for something that would
lead to fewer sales and less productive email campaigns, I would not
hang on to my job (or at least my credibility) for long.

Standards/CSS is supposed to be about making my client's life better -
increased sales, happier customers. I'll stick to doing what I know
will lead to that, rather than putting energy into something that is
likely to cause them to lose money.

All this could change if people in general (not just people who code
websites) get sick of HTML email. But for now, they eat it up.
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Re: [css-d] problem with Mac IE 5 (poss 6): apparent transparency of layers

2005-11-21 Thread Rahul Gonsalves
Hi Giles:

Giles Clark wrote:

I am testing a layout for a client.

http://www.4midable.net/tpt/website/index.htm
http://www.4midable.net/tpt/website/tptstyle.css
  

Couple of questions;

1. does this happen in IE6/firefox
  

FF1.5/IE6/Opera 8.5 all display the way I think you want it to. No 
transparency issues, though I am having a bit of a difficult time 
deselecting a menu once I have the drop-down happening. I have to move 
onto another link - Home for example, to make the drop down go away.

2. can anyone offer a resonable solution?
  

I'd love to, but can't. I'm sure the list will though :)

Any help much appreciated.

Giles

Cheers,
Rahul.

-- 
***.**
Rahul Gonsalves
Make PNG, not War.
***.**

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Re: [css-d] always having this Problem with IE and linebreaks

2005-11-21 Thread Nick Fitzsimons
 Hi,
 i try to solve this problem for a long time now:

 its described here:
 http://www.beltundsund.de/cssd/test.htm

 IE scales boxes higher as they are if a line break occurs in the code.
 removing the line break often solves it, but i dont undertand it at all
 ...


IE Win, for reasons unknown, treats even an empty element as being one
line high. To fix it, apply:

font-size: 0;

and the gap closes up.

HTH,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/
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Re: [css-d] CSS and HTML emails

2005-11-21 Thread michael ensor
- Original Message - 
From: Eric Shepherd 
To: Kenoli Oleari 
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] CSS and HTML emails


: 
: Standards/CSS is supposed to be about making my client's life better -
: increased sales, happier customers. I'll stick to doing what I know
: will lead to that, rather than putting energy into something that is
: likely to cause them to lose money.

FYI see http://slipstick.com/  for some comment on html email and especially 
the increasingly
dysfunctional behaviour of Outlook in its implementation of CSS as MS patch 
various holesmight save the occasional 'gotcha'.


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[css-d] XHTML Layout

2005-11-21 Thread Anders Rasmussen
 
Hello people,

I'm trying to build an administrative website using XHTML - the main
layout has to consist of a header, footer and content.

My problem is; How do I get the content to 'fill out the screen'
height-wise, so the footer always stands out at the bottom of the
browser, even though there isn't enought content to populate the entire
screen? And _should_ there be more than enough content, it should just
drop the footer to the end of the content.

I'm sure this issue has been discussed before, but I have no idea where
to find the information I'm looking for - the only solutions I find, has
a content height of 85% or so, to prevent the footer dropping out of
sight.

If anyone could point me in the right direction and get me started, I'd
be VERY greatful.

Sincerely,
Anders.

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Re: [css-d] XHTML Layout

2005-11-21 Thread Nick Fitzsimons

 Hello people,

 I'm trying to build an administrative website using XHTML - the main
 layout has to consist of a header, footer and content.

 My problem is; How do I get the content to 'fill out the screen'
 height-wise, so the footer always stands out at the bottom of the
 browser, even though there isn't enought content to populate the entire
 screen? And _should_ there be more than enough content, it should just
 drop the footer to the end of the content.


Have a look at

http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2005/08/29/

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
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http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/
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Re: [css-d] XHTML Layout

2005-11-21 Thread David Dorward
On 21/11/05, Anders Rasmussen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 My problem is; How do I get the content to 'fill out the screen'
 height-wise, so the footer always stands out at the bottom of the
 browser, even though there isn't enought content to populate the entire
 screen? And _should_ there be more than enough content, it should just
 drop the footer to the end of the content.

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FooterInfo

 I'm sure this issue has been discussed before, but I have no idea where
 to find the information I'm looking for

The Wiki/FAQ (linked at the bottom of every list email) is usually a
good place to start.

--
David Dorward http://dorward.me.ukhttp://blog.dorward.me.uk
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Re: [css-d] Unable to fix p font size in specific class

2005-11-21 Thread Roger Roelofs
Ian

On Nov 21, 2005, at 7:54 AM, 2geedesign wrote:

 Hi Roger
 I think that I originally raised this point - not Mohammed.
 The link is http://www.studleyflorists.co.uk/handtied.html

 and for CSS  http://www.studleyflorists.co.uk/stylesheets/main-style
  What I want to achieve is that the test size used within the store  
 elements
 remains fixed so that the layout does not break if the viewer  
 increases the
 text size.

A better solution would be to let the layout get taller or shorter  
based on the user's text size requirements.

If this were my project, the first thing I would do is streamline the  
markup and make it valid.

I would do the markup something like this...
  xhtml  
div id=content
h1Handtied/h1
ul id=productlist
li class=firstinrow
h3Golden Elegance/h3
img src=images/elegance_thumb.jpg /
pThe ultimate in autumnal sophistication/p
form action=https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr; method=post  
target=paypal
fieldset
labelinput name=amount type=radio value=35  
checked=checked /standard £35.00/label
labelinput name=amount type=radio value=40 / luxury £40.00  
/label
   input type=hidden name=cmd value=_cart
   input type=hidden name=add value=1
   input type=hidden name=bn value=webassist.dreamweaver.4_0_3
   input type=hidden name=business  
value=[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   input type=hidden name=item_name value=Golden Elegance
   input type=hidden name=currency_code value=GBP
   input type=hidden name=receiver_email  
value=[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   input type=hidden name=mrb value=R-3WH47588B4505740X
   input type=hidden name=pal value=ANNSXSLJLYR2A
   input type=hidden name=no_shipping value=0
   input type=hidden name=no_note value=0
   input type=image name=submit src=http://images.paypal.com/ 
images/x-click-but22.gif border=0 alt=Make payments with PayPal -  
it's fast, free and secure!
/fieldset
/form
/li
li
h3Chelsea Handtied/h3
img src=images/chelsea_thumb.jpg /
pHot pink and pure white blooms/p
form action=https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr; method=post  
target=paypal
fieldset
labelinput name=amount type=radio value=35  
checked=checked /standard £35.00/label
labelinput name=amount type=radio value=40 / luxury £40.00  
/label
   input type=hidden name=cmd value=_cart
   input type=hidden name=add value=1
   input type=hidden name=bn value=webassist.dreamweaver.4_0_3
   input type=hidden name=business  
value=[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   input type=hidden name=item_name value=Chelsea Handtied
   input type=hidden name=currency_code value=GBP
   input type=hidden name=receiver_email  
value=[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   input type=hidden name=mrb value=R-3WH47588B4505740X
   input type=hidden name=pal value=ANNSXSLJLYR2A
   input type=hidden name=no_shipping value=0
   input type=hidden name=no_note value=0
   input type=image name=submit src=http://images.paypal.com/ 
images/x-click-but22.gif border=0 alt=Make payments with PayPal -  
it's fast, free and secure!
/fieldset
/form
/li
!-- repeat as necessary --
/ul
/div
-  CSS  ---
#productlist {
float: left; /* expand to hold floated contents */
background-color: white;  /*  hide vertical gaps */
width: 100%;
list-style-type: none;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}

#productlist li {
float: left;
width: 33%;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}

#productlist li.firstinrow {
clear: left;
}

#productlist li label {
float: left;
width: 50%;
}

/* other styles as appropriate */


I'm sorry I can't be more complete, but I'm at work now and don't  
have much time.  It should at least get you started.  If you need  
more assistance, let me know and I'll put something together tonight.

Roger,

Roger Roelofs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [css-d] Flash and CSS

2005-11-21 Thread Chad Calhoun
Actually, if you're interested in using DENG, the CSS support is amazing
(includes CSS3).  Not ALL of the features are supported, but it is a lot
better than Macromedia's base support.  It will take some playing around
with to learn to work with it.  Here are a couple links to check out:

http://claus.packts.net/ 
http://deng.com.br/forum/ 

If you're interested in keeping the text info and styles all within your
flash file instead of importing from an external file, check out this
thread:
http://deng.com.br/forum/viewtopic.php?t=221 
 
 
--
Chad Calhoun
overitmedia
e] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w] www.overit.com 
 
-Original Message-

On Nov 20, 2005, at 6:26 PM, Kat Lindsey wrote:
 Is it true you have limited use of the CSS tags in flash?  And if so, 
 does
 anyone know where I might be able to find out more about this business 
 of
 creating styles using actionscript?





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[css-d] IE gaps

2005-11-21 Thread artcoder
Take a look at http://collectibles.webmarksonline.com/ 
 
Firefox is correct.  How to work-around IE so that there is no 1px gap
at bottom of top frame and bottom frame?
 
Thanks,
artcoder (at) http://webmarksonline.com http://webmarksonline.com/ 
 
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[css-d] A css alternative to flash rollover

2005-11-21 Thread ross
Can I add a css alternative to this flash rollover menu without reverting to 
javascript??


http://www.nssdesign.scot.nhs.uk/about_us/board_meetings.php

I want to add a css/html menu as an alternative to the flash as the WAI 
guideline says an alternative to an object must be provided.

Soemthing like this (does not have to animate)



 div id=menu style=position:absolute; left: 0px; top: 199px; width:200; 
object classid=clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-44455354 
codebase=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=7,0,19,0;
 width=248 height=184
  param name=movie value=board_menu.swf
  param name=quality value=high
  embed src=board_menu.swf quality=high 
pluginspage=http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer; 
type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=248 height=184/embed
 
  // if no flash alternative goes here
  /object/div

 span class=side_menu_aboutusWho we are/span   
  span class=side_menu_aboutusa href=our_priorities.phpOur Priorities 
/a/span
span class=side_menu_aboutusa href=our_divisions.phpOur 
Divisions/a/span
   span class=side_menu_aboutusa 
href=nss_management.phpManagement/a/span
   span class=side_menu_aboutusa href=nss_board.phpNSS 
Board/a/span
   span class=side_menu_aboutus a href=#National 
Initiatives/a/span
span class=side_menu_aboutus a href=# Complaints/a/span
span class=side_menu_aboutus a href=#Involving people/a/span
span class=side_menu_aboutus a href=#Freedom of 
Information/a/span
 /div

I have to have the flash menu as it is a customer requirement. I did it using 
CSS/javascript initially but that is about as unaccessible as flash anyway!


I have seen simle examples of this with an image but the flash uses an embed 
tag and am finding it a bit tricky.


R.



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[css-d] pop-ups

2005-11-21 Thread Doreen Cowan
Good morning: 

I have made a menu using some of Mr. Meyers' coding which he created a few
years ago.  My vertical menu works fine.  
I decided to turn it into a  horizontal menu.
 However, now I don't know how to get the pop-up out of
 the div and locate it in about the same place as  in the original vertical  
menu.

 The original vertical menu is located at

 http://home.cogeco.ca/~doreencowan/index.html  
---   mouse over 'services'   

To see  the new horizontal menu click on 'home'  and then mouse over 
'services' 

This is where I don't want the pop-up to be.
 
 I am quite new at using CSS and I don't know if what I want to do can be
 done. All suggestions and/or resources will be very much appreciated.

Doreen Cowan
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Re: [css-d] A css alternative to flash rollover

2005-11-21 Thread ross
Thanks for that

I will change to a UL but how do I make it an alternative WITHOUT any 
javacript. That is my realy problem here.

   object
type=application/x-shockwave-flash
width=248 height=184
param name=movie value=board_menu.swf /
//if no flash I want my alternative content to show


/object


Acrroding to this 
http://webxact3.watchfire.com/themes/standard-en-us/help/HIDD_WDContent_G20.html
 
guideline.


R. 

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[css-d] block ele. inside inline ele.

2005-11-21 Thread Patrick Roane
Folks,

I am trying to find a substitute 'block' element to
replace my 'inline' span element which houses my image
system (based off of Stu's photo gallery). See:

www.cpcconstruction.net/1/homes.html

The reason why is because I am using custom bullets
for each image description. The problem is, these ul
elements are placed inside my span which is illegal.

As a first attempt, I tried replacing my span with a
div in my css like so: 

1.) #container a.gallery span/#container a.gallery div
2.) #container a.gallery:hover span/...hover div
3.) #container a.gallery:list span/...list div

and I replaced my spans' with dives in my html. The
result was less than pretty- it was a mess. 

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Patrick

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[css-d] problems with tree widget

2005-11-21 Thread David Feldman
I'm trying to make a hierarchical tree widget. The tree itself  
(ultimately embedded in a frame or iframe) is a ul, each item an  
li, and various elements and controls in each item are left-floated  
elements. The label itself isn't floated. It works well overall, but

(1) When item labels get too long, the labels wrap to the next line  
in IE. Setting white-space: nowrap on the li fixed the problem in  
Firefox, but not IE.

(2) With the wrapping problem fixed, the background color of the  
selected item in the list (set via background-color) only extends to  
the right edge of the page. In other words, when you scroll to the  
right to see the rest of a long label, the background color doesn't  
extend.

Any ideas what to do?

Thanks.
Dave
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Re: [css-d] A css alternative to flash rollover

2005-11-21 Thread Travis Barden
I've never used flash, but I guess it would be
something like this:
object type=application/x-shockwave-flash
width=248 height=184
 param name=movie value=board_menu.swf /
 ul
liMenu item 1/li
liMenu item 2/li
 /ul
/object

HTH
Travis

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks for that
 
 I will change to a UL but how do I make it an
 alternative WITHOUT any 
 javacript. That is my realy problem here.
 
object
 type=application/x-shockwave-flash
 width=248 height=184
 param name=movie value=board_menu.swf /
 //if no flash I want my alternative content to show
 
 
 /object
 
 
 Acrroding to this 

http://webxact3.watchfire.com/themes/standard-en-us/help/HIDD_WDContent_G20.html
 
 guideline.
 
 
 R. 
 

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Re: [css-d] A css alternative to flash rollover

2005-11-21 Thread Jim Berkey
Check out Geoff Stearns Flash Object - with a javascript file you can insert 
your flash into a div, and put whatever text /links you like in the div 
along with the flash object. Browsers with flash will see the flash, 
browsers without flash will see the div text:
http://blog.deconcept.com/flashobject/

jim
- Original Message - 
From: Travis Barden [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] A css alternative to flash rollover


 I've never used flash, but I guess it would be
 something like this:
 object type=application/x-shockwave-flash
 width=248 height=184
 param name=movie value=board_menu.swf /
 ul
liMenu item 1/li
liMenu item 2/li
 /ul
 /object

 HTH
 Travis

 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Thanks for that

 I will change to a UL but how do I make it an
 alternative WITHOUT any
 javacript. That is my realy problem here.

object
 type=application/x-shockwave-flash
 width=248 height=184
 param name=movie value=board_menu.swf /
 //if no flash I want my alternative content to show


 /object


 Acrroding to this

 http://webxact3.watchfire.com/themes/standard-en-us/help/HIDD_WDContent_G20.html

 guideline.


 R.


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[css-d] Are javascripts a good way to squish three-column layout bugs? *newbie*

2005-11-21 Thread Christina Frederick
Hi all,

I'm wrestling with my first table-less site. I'm an experienced graphic 
designer and woefully inexperienced coder. The site in question is live 
at:
http://visfi.org
It looks best in FF, and has a few layout bugs - all critiques welcome.

One of the more urgent fixes needed is on short pages where the 
multiple column layout does not push the footer div down far enough to 
avoid running underneath the left hand column's content, like here:   
http://visfi.org/contact/index.html

I read a 2003 article on sitepoint.com 
(http://www.sitepoint.com/article/exploring-limits-css-layout ) about 
using javascript to solve the layout issue -  a script hides the footer 
element until the page is drawn, then calculates the location of the 
bottom of the content and reveals the footer element at that calculated 
vertical space.

Is that still considered a solid solution, or is there a simpler way to 
do this that will work across browsers? (I don't know how to pick a 
reliable Javascript from all the freebies out there, but they seem to 
be necessary for CSS cross-browser development?) Would running 
cross-browser.com's  x.js script (mentioned in that sitepoint article) 
help solve layout problems in general? When I go to the 
cross-browser.com site, the explanations of what the x script does 
are waaay over my head, but apparently I need a script to get my CSS to 
work properly on different browsers?? What do I really need?

Time is an object - this project is past budget and deadlines.

The stylesheets are:
http://visfi.org/visfi.css  (settings for all pages)
http://visfi.org/visfi_home_layout.css   (for the homepage)
http://visfi.org/visfi_secondary_layout.css   (for all other pages)
and CSS controls for the nav bar are dynamically generated from this 
script:
http://visfi.org/udm-resources/udm-custom.js

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!!

Christina
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Re: [css-d] Site check

2005-11-21 Thread olly
 From: Donna Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 i don't particularly like the bricks either but if you made them to be
 unscrollable i think it would be neater.  just add fixed in where
 you're calling that image as background.  (i think you have repeat just
 add fixed after that).

done, and it looks much better, thanks.  the thing with the bricks is
that they're exactly the same as those in the artist's studio on which
he hangs his paintings - never underestimate the importance of a happy
client :)

i also increased the leading and it does look better.  the header
image, although fairly small text, remains (for now).

cheers.
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Re: [css-d] What should the selector be?

2005-11-21 Thread David Dorward
On 21/11/05, Arnold Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Should not:  body#2-1  li#2-1  a:link { }  select the link inside an li
 with an id=2-1 even if is nested in another ul and another parent div?

Since an id cannot begin with a number, it shouldn't match anything. I
suggest you start by running your markup through
http://validator.w3.org/

 !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN
 http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd;

XHTML 1.1 should not be served as text/html. I might suggest that you
revert to XHTML 1.0, but since you are making such mistakes as
commenting out some of your CSS, I suggest HTML 4.01 instead.

--
David Dorward http://dorward.me.ukhttp://blog.dorward.me.uk
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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 I am working on a weblog for my son. Your comments and suggestions will
 be appreciated. Or will they? :-P
 http://www.dlaakso.com/blog/wordpress/

Hi David,
I think you need to reduce the width of the sidebar a little because it
drops in IE/Win.
Besides that, very nice...

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [css-d] What should the selector be?

2005-11-21 Thread CJ Larson
Your problem stems from the rule stating that id/class names must begin
with an alphabetical character I believe.  Try changing your id of 2-1
to id2-1 or along those lines.  When I do this on your page, the
what's right for me li turns white with a red background instead of
the default of the rest of the list.
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Re: [css-d] CSS validator warnings on color vs. background andredefinition of padding

2005-11-21 Thread Jim Nannery

Afternoon Charles

You wrote;

I am almost done with a table-based  XHTML/CSS redesign of my parish web
 site.

 www.allsaintsofamerica.org/new_site/index.html

 My CSS validates, but there are tons of warnings.  I feel unsettled not
 correcting them, sort of like getting marks off by a teacher, but I 
 honestly
 don't see the benefit of correcting many of them, and would like to ask 
 the
 experts what the balance of risks and benefits is.

 First, many of them are that I specified a background color but no text
 color, or the reverse.  My reluctance in correcting this is that some of 
 my
 present rules work with a foreground color in contexts of two different
 background colors.  Or vice versa: different background colors all of 
 which
 work fine with a black text color.  To correct this will require the
 addition of several additional lines of code that to this beginner, 
 anyway,
 seem unnecessary.

snipped

 Thanks!

 Charles


A quick google of archivist.incutio.com (this list) [1] turned up a wealth 
of recent (and some not so)discussions on this topic.

And some of the relevant links to this discussion can be found here [2] [3]
Hope this helps

[1] site:archivist.incutio.com + validator warnings
[2] http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/63118
[3] http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/64795

Jim Nannery
owner - www.redfernenterprises.com 


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[css-d] IE5.2/Mac mess. Help please!

2005-11-21 Thread Richard Grevers
Hi,
In the rush to meet a tight deadline to reskin a legacy site, we
didn't have the chance to address issues in IE5.2 for Mac with our
site, but one of the 0.15% (our old site's stats) of users visiting
has commented on the mess that we saw with browsercam*.

Taking http://www.freeparking.biz/domains/index.mv as the sample page
(because I know it does validate), is there any straightforward fix
for MacIE which won't break other browsers, or should we simply split
the stylesheets and not feed it any positioning?


Supplementary Q (answers offlist only!)
* On a 1 day trial of browsercam, most of the 128 initial shots we
took were blank (possibly because they were all tried concurrently and
overloaded the (elderly and soon to be replaced) server. But other
snapshots, such as Mozilla 1.7 on Win2000, showed a crash dialogue
from Opera 7.54 (I thought browsercam used a different machine for
each browser!) Is this a typical result?  We are considering whether
to subscribe to browsercam or simply to buy a Mac. Is there a better
service?
--
Richard Grevers
New Plymouth, New Zealand
Orphan Gmail invites free to good homes.
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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread David Laakso
Thierry Koblentz wrote:

I am working on a weblog for my son. Your comments and suggestions will
be appreciated. Or will they? :-P
http://www.dlaakso.com/blog/wordpress/



Hi David,
I think you need to reduce the width of the sidebar a little because it
drops in IE/Win.
Besides that, very nice...

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
  

Thierry,
Hmm. No float drop of sidebar this end @ 800  text-size largest in 
XP_SP2 IE6.0. Are you using Win/2000? What version of IE?
Thanks,
David
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[css-d] Site Check Please

2005-11-21 Thread Reese
We are looking for feedback on

http://inkworkswell.com/clients/monroelab

Especially from MacIE/Safari users. All comments on display issues welcome.

Reese

--
Ink Works
http://www.inkworkswell.com   

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Re: [css-d] Are javascripts a good way to squish three-columnlayoutbugs? *newbie*

2005-11-21 Thread Al Sparber
From: Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Christina Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Are javascripts a good way to squish 
three-columnlayoutbugs? *newbie*


 I'm wrestling with my first table-less site. I'm an experienced 
 graphic
 designer and woefully inexperienced coder. The site in question is 
 live
 at:
 http://visfi.org

 You don't need JS to fix this, you need a better CSS layout.
 The problem is that your left column is absolutely positioned, so it 
 is out
 of the flow.
 Take a look at the wiki. There are many 2 column layout solutions 
 you can
 use.

For a simple, fixed layout, faux columns is the logical soultion. For 
liquid layouts, the choice is to use complicated CSS or to use a 
simple script that adds an equal height behavior. Since it does not 
affect the accessibility of the information, it's a viable solution... 
unless, of course, one wants to roll up his sleeves, write some very 
complex CSS, and then manage it ongoing. For those who might want a 
simpler solution, there is this:

http://www.projectseven.com/tutorials/css/pvii_columns/index.htm

This is not an invitation to a debate. It is a viable solution. If 
it's of interest to you, fine. If not, don't use it, but please don't 
debate it's premise or you'll be debating with yourself :-)

Al Sparber
PVII
http://www.projectseven.com

Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling 
mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that 
repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday.


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Re: [css-d] CSS validator warnings on color vs. background and redefinition of padding

2005-11-21 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Charles Dort wrote:

 First, many of them are that I specified a background color but no
 text color, or the reverse. [...] To correct this will require the
 addition of several additional lines of code that to this beginner,
 anyway, seem unnecessary.

I am also a beginner, but I can tell you that this is worth
correcting. My browser is configured to display white text on black
background (much more comfortable to my poor eyes). If your CSS
specifies, say, black color and no background color, to me it will
display as black text on black background... Similarly, if you specify
a light color as background, my white text will be unreadable. When
you specify both, it's less comfortable to me than my default but
still readable.

Hope this makes sense to you :)

Nicolas
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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 I think you need to reduce the width of the sidebar a little because it
 drops in IE/Win.
 Besides that, very nice...

 Thierry,
 Hmm. No float drop of sidebar this end @ 800  text-size largest in
 XP_SP2 IE6.0. Are you using Win/2000? What version of IE?

Same as yours, but now it works. I just don't get it. I even used the Web
Accessibility Toolbar to change the value of the width and I saw the
sidebar content jumping back up. Very weird. Sorry for the false alarm...
Anyway, while I was trying to reproduce the drop, I found out that there is
a jump when I hover my cursor over the headings (main column).

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com

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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread David Laakso
Ingo Chao wrote:

David Laakso wrote:
  

I am working on a weblog for my son. Your comments and suggestions will 
be appreciated. Or will they? :-P
http://www.dlaakso.com/blog/wordpress/




Wish I could do such nice things. :)
  

I wish I could do stuff that works.

FF1.5RC3 [Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8) 
Gecko/2005 Firefox/1.5] does display the thumbs in 
#header-minor/#footer-minor vertically (FF1.0.5 arranges them 
horizontally, as intended). Bug?
Ingo
  

Good grief. Weird. I am using FF1.5 RC3 xp_sp2 and the stupid thumbs are 
horizontal, as intended. Have not checked in FF 1.5. Back to the drawing 
boardor the asylum.
Thanks Ingo.
Best,
David


-- 
David Laakso
http://www.dlaakso.com

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[css-d] computing sidebar width

2005-11-21 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hello all,

I am new here. I expected to find an answer to my question on the wiki
but I didn't, so here it is.

What is the recommended method to choose the width of a navigation
sidebar with dynamic contents?

Ideally, I'd like the sidebar width to adjust automatically to its
contents, as in table-based design (oops... sorry for using a rude
word :) but I don't think it's possible in CSS2 -- or is it?

Short of this, I can use a server-side script (PHP) to define the
width, but what's the best algorithm? Using as many em's (or ex's) as
there are characters in the longest menu item makes it too wide, as
many characters are less than an em or ex wide.

How do you experts handle this?

Nicolas
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Re: [css-d] Site Check Please

2005-11-21 Thread Roger Roelofs
Reese,

On Nov 21, 2005, at 5:15 PM, Reese wrote:

 We are looking for feedback on

 http://inkworkswell.com/clients/monroelab

 Especially from MacIE/Safari users. All comments on display issues 
 welcome.

Safari and ie5/mac render the page comparably to ff1.5rc3 except for 
the right hand navigation.  In ie, only on the About Monroelab page, 
that stripe is too far right and the nav is below the content on the 
left.  My only other complaint is that the sub-menu items disappear 
after i click on them.  If a page is part of a subsection, then the 
menu should stay open.

hth

Roger,

Roger Roelofs
Remember, if you’re headed in the wrong direction,
God allows U-turns!
  ~Allison Gappa Bottke
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Re: [css-d] computing sidebar width

2005-11-21 Thread David Dorward
On 21/11/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 What is the recommended method to choose the width of a navigation
 sidebar with dynamic contents?

Its rather subject to personal preference. I generally specify a width
in ems, generally around 12-15 of them, and avoid overlong strings of
unwrappable text in the content.

 Ideally, I'd like the sidebar width to adjust automatically to its
 contents, as in table-based design (oops... sorry for using a rude
 word :) but I don't think it's possible in CSS2 -- or is it?

display: table-cell (if only MSIE supported CSS 2).

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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread Ingo Chao

I should have mentioned that I can see the vertical rendering on the 
live page. On a local copy of the page, all is well and horizontally 
aligned.

Can anyone confirm
a) the problem Thierry has reported on IE6 and
b) what I see in FF1.5RC3?

Ingo

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[css-d] help with IE needed gain

2005-11-21 Thread Mark Mckee
hi all

I have intergrated my orum with my site. so far so good. except the way 
IE renders the page.

if i could get away with swearing i would lol. for now i shall cry.

can anyone suggest a fix, or see where i have gone wrong?

all fine in FF windows, just IE is the problem
http://www.soddengecko.com/forum/

thaks in advance

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http://www.soddengecko.co.uk

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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On 22 Nov 2005, at 8:34 am, Ingo Chao wrote:

 I should have mentioned that I can see the vertical rendering on the
 live page. On a local copy of the page, all is well and horizontally
 aligned.

 Can anyone confirm
 a) the problem Thierry has reported on IE6 and
 b) what I see in FF1.5RC3?

It works correctly on my side, both Camino 1.0b (=Firefox 1.5rc3) and 
Firefox 1.6a1.

If you reload the page, does the problem disappear ?

Philippe
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Re: [css-d] pop-ups

2005-11-21 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Sent this one off-list hours ago, but it got blocked, so...

Doreen Cowan wrote:

 I have made a menu using some of Mr. Meyers' coding which he created 
 a few years ago.  My vertical menu works fine. I decided to turn it 
 into a  horizontal menu. However, now I don't know how to get the 
 pop-up out of the div and locate it in about the same place as  in 
 the original vertical  menu.

 http://home.cogeco.ca/~doreencowan/index.html

Make a note: absolute positioned elements will be positioned relative to
the container they are nested in that has either 'position: relative' or
'position: absolute' defined on it.

The horizontal menu is inside an absolute positioned container -
'.content', so that's what the pop-ups in the horizontal menu will
relate to.

To get the pop-up positioned where the other pop-up is - to the left,
you'll have to define a negative 'left' on it and adjust 'top' relative
to top of '.content'

 I am quite new at using CSS and I don't know if what I want to do can
  be done. All suggestions and/or resources will be very much 
 appreciated.

I've taken your example and added a couple of pop-ups so you can see how
it can be done. Hover on horizontal 'Services' and 'Contact Us', and
look at the changes I've made to your styles.

I gave '.content' a 'left: 180px' to keep an open space for the vertical
menu and those pop-ups, regardless of window-width.

http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/test_8400.html

Had to run HTML Tidy on it so I could get it through. The (x)html is
more or less valid now, but not very nice because of all the unclosed
elements that Tidy replaced with br /. Slight change in appearance.
Clean that up later, and remember to close all elements properly.

Also: a few CSS-values without unit. Browsers ignore unitless values,
except when they are zero. Find and fix those too, and validate
everything ;-)

regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread Ingo Chao
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
 It works correctly on my side, both Camino 1.0b (=Firefox 1.5rc3) and 
 Firefox 1.6a1.
 
 If you reload the page, does the problem disappear ?

Hmm. It did not disappear. But now (after a restart) I cannot reproduce 
it anymore. Weird.

Ingo


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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread Thierry Koblentz
Ingo Chao wrote:
 Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
 It works correctly on my side, both Camino 1.0b (=Firefox 1.5rc3) and
 Firefox 1.6a1.
 
 If you reload the page, does the problem disappear ?
 
 Hmm. It did not disappear. But now (after a restart) I cannot
 reproduce it anymore. Weird.

I went through the same thing with the sidebar. It is weird...

Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread David Laakso
Ingo Chao wrote:

Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
  

It works correctly on my side, both Camino 1.0b (=Firefox 1.5rc3) and 
Firefox 1.6a1.

If you reload the page, does the problem disappear ?



Hmm. It did not disappear. But now (after a restart) I cannot reproduce 
it anymore. Weird.

Ingo


  

Content headings still jump after a restart on my end-- xp_sp2 ie6.0.
http://www.dlaakso.com/blog/wordpress/
Leonardo is scratching his head, too.
~d.

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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
David Laakso wrote:

 Content headings still jump after a restart on my end-- xp_sp2 ie6.0.
  http://www.dlaakso.com/blog/wordpress/ Leonardo is scratching his 
 head, too.

Confirm jumping headings. IE6/win2K pro.
Did Leonardo remember to give those content-divs a 'hasLayout' trigger?

Georg
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Re: [css-d] Getting height to stretch/shrink on resize

2005-11-21 Thread Ann Adamcik
Thanks, Jesper!

Though I was hoping there would be a css way to do
this, your
script does exactly what I need.

-Ann

--- Jesper Brunholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 AFAIK there's no way to do it with css. I've made a
 solution with 
 javascript on the Phonix webpages
 http://www.phonixfolk.dk/forside_e.php 
   which you're welcome to learn from or copy as need
 be...
 
 It's the js file:
 http://www.phonixfolk.dk/scripts/scroll.js
 and the function
 function justerDivStoerr()
 
 The comments are in Danish, send me an e-mail if you
 need help for it 
 (as we're off-topic here :) )
 
 HTH
 
 Jesper Brunholm

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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread David Laakso
Ingo Chao wrote:

I should have mentioned that I can see the vertical rendering on the 
live page. On a local copy of the page, all is well and horizontally 
aligned.

Can anyone confirm
a) the problem Thierry has reported on IE6 and
b) what I see in FF1.5RC3?

Ingo

  

Ingo,
Felix Miata confirmed (chatzilla) to me that he gets horizontal 
thumbnails in RC3.
http://www.dlaakso.com/blog/wordpress/
Best,
~d

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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread David Laakso
David Laakso wrote:

I am working on a weblog for my son. Your comments and suggestions will 
be appreciated. Or will they? :-P
http://www.dlaakso.com/blog/wordpress/
Thank you.
Best,
~dL

  

Deleting the margin-bottom seems to have stopped the content heading 
from jumping in xp/ie6.0.
div#content img { display: block; margin: 0 auto /*75px*/0  auto; 
padding: 0; }
No luck so far w/ the vertical thumb problem though.
Best,
~d

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Re: [css-d] site review::~dL

2005-11-21 Thread David Laakso
Ingo Chao wrote:

I should have mentioned that I can see the vertical rendering on the 
live page. On a local copy of the page, all is well and horizontally 
aligned.

Can anyone confirm
a) the problem Thierry has reported on IE6 and
b) what I see in FF1.5RC3?

Ingo

  

Ingo,
Re: b)what I see in FF1.5RC3?
Rahul Gonsalves wrote:  [...]
Also, I'm not sure whether it's a bug or a feature, but disabling all 
styles (Webdev Toolbar, FF1.5) moves the pictures on top into a single 
horizontal rather than vertical line. Reloading forces them vertically 
again.Warmly,Rahul.
Best,
~d

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Re: [css-d] IE5.2/Mac mess. Help please!

2005-11-21 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On 22 Nov 2005, at 6:59 am, Richard Grevers wrote:

 In the rush to meet a tight deadline to reskin a legacy site, we
 didn't have the chance to address issues in IE5.2 for Mac with our
 site, but one of the 0.15% (our old site's stats) of users visiting
 has commented on the mess that we saw with browsercam*.

 Taking http://www.freeparking.biz/domains/index.mv as the sample page
 (because I know it does validate), is there any straightforward fix
 for MacIE which won't break other browsers, or should we simply split
 the stylesheets and not feed it any positioning?

In one line

* htmlbody #masthead {display:inline-block; width:100%;}


Philippe
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Re: [css-d] Site Check Please

2005-11-21 Thread Sasha Gerrand
Hi,

The site renders OK in all Mac OS X based UAs.

In Safari (1.3 and 2), the menu on the right-hand side with the navigation
category text is almost starting to greek though (which might associated
with the 'small' declaration.).

No major issues with Mac IE 5.2.

Cheers,
Sasha


Sasha Gerrand
IT  Web Development Manager

Armstrong Miller+McLaren
http://www.amm.com.au

Email   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Office  +61 2 9922 4200
Mobile  +61 4 2574 5207

EOM 

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 From: Reese [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:15:50 -0500
 To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
 Subject: [css-d] Site Check Please
 
 We are looking for feedback on
 
 http://inkworkswell.com/clients/monroelab
 
 Especially from MacIE/Safari users. All comments on display issues welcome.
 
 Reese
 
 --
 Ink Works
 http://www.inkworkswell.com
 
 


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[css-d] combining white-space:pre and word-wrap: break-word?

2005-11-21 Thread jack fredricks
I'm trying to combine white-space:pre and word-wrap: break-word in
a rule and not getting too far. I guess in someways they shouldn't
work together..but..

i'm trying to achieve this;

content in a TD which;

1) preserves soft-returns/line breaks (breaks that are NOT brs etc).
For this I need the white-space:pre.

2) long (or long due to increasing font-size) and unbroken text to be
forced to wrap, and to NOT push the TD wider. For this I need
word-wrap: break-word (or some proprietary rule ie white-space:
-moz-pre-wrap etc.

Getting one or the other to work is fine. Getting both to work
together is hard, but this is what I'm trying to do.

Any ideas?

NB: when I say soft returns I mean line-breaks that are NOT caused by
Ps or BRs. The kind of line-breaks that PRE preserves. I believe some
people call BRs soft-returns.
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