Re: [css-d] Layout Problems Appearing in Opera

[Roy Anger]

As David Laakso helpfully pointed out, I forgot the URI. Its 
http://mike.exclaimstudio.com

Sorry about that and the resulting double post,
Roy

-

I'm having a little trouble with some layout on a site. The site is 
displaying the way I want it to in IE 6, Firefox on Windows and Firefox 
on Linux.  The site, however, is not displaying correctly in Opera 8.51 
and 8.54 on Windows. The menu is getting mangled, and some of the footer 
elements are not lining up correctly. Before I spend time trying to 
figure it out, I was hoping someone on the list might be aware of what 
is causing these issues and hopefully that can save me some time.

Thanks,
Roy

P.S. I don't have access to a Mac, so if someone could provide some 
screen caps, I'd really appreciate that.
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Re: [css-d] Does a hidden element load?

[francky]

Tobias Baldauf wrote:

>I'm quite sure that FF does not load elements that are set to display:none;
>
>I played around with a css-image-preloader some time ago & made that
>experience. And I believe it to be a smart thing to do of FF, because it
>safes bandwidth.
>
I think a css-image-preloader with { margin-left: -px; } should work 
always.

Greetings,
francky
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Re: [css-d] Does a hidden element load?

[Tobias Baldauf]

I wrote one - based on an article I read before - some time ago after my
tests:

/* Pure CSS Image Preloader */

#img-preload{
position:absolute;
height:0px;
width:0px;
overflow:hidden;
}

#img-preload img{
height:0px;
width:0px;
}

/* End of Pure CSS Image Preloader */

I haven't found a downside of this method yet. I checked it in FF 1.0.7
& 1.5.0.3, IE 6 SP2 in Win, FF on Mac and on Linux and Konqueror in
Linux. That's all I have - IE7 hasn't found its way to my systems yet...

This method did seem to work on all of those systems as it does not hide
any elements, but renders them invisible otherwise. This ensures that
the images are indeed loaded no matter which browser-client comes along.

Feedback on this method is greatly appreciated!

Greets,

Tobias

francky schrieb:
> I think a css-image-preloader with { margin-left: -px; } should work 
> always.
> 
> Greetings,
> francky
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Re: [css-d] footerStickAlt method not working on my site

[Alex James]

Brett wrote:
> Please see http://dawkins.ctat.cs.cmu.edu/
> My goal is the same as footerStickAlt [1]. I can't get this footer to 
stick to the bottom of the page in any browser.

Brett,

Try the following: 

Remove margin-bottom:10em; from the #nonfooter declaration.

Add clear: both; to the #footer. 

In FF this will now stick unfortunately it's still not expanding to the
full width of your layout. Maybe some one else can shed some light on
this? I'm confused as firstly you didn't declare a negative value for
margin-top in the #footer like the Man-In-Blue[1] example and secondly
why adding the clearing property partially works?

Oh, and that mainstyles.css file is a beast!

Thanks,
Alex  

[1] http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2005/08/29/#content
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Re: [css-d] Jumping DIV in IE

[Rainer Wagener]

Hi Peter,

> I'm having a strange problem with a jumping, 
> floated/positioned div in 
> IE 6 (and possibly lower). 

...
 
> I thought it might be a hasLayout issue so I added "zoom: 1;" to 
> everything I could think of, but that didn't seem to do 
> anything. 

Did you think of div#siteinfo?
Aplying zoom:1 to that div solved it for me.
Strange enough, but it's IE.

Rainer

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[css-d] Horizontal scrollbar on iframe displaying in IE

[Alisha]

Here's the problem, doing this layout for a friend of mine I run into 
this issue about iframes, and since I haven't been using iframes in ages 
i have no clue about how this works or if this effect is normal and 
there's an obvious workaround. So i'm sorry if this sounds obvious, i 
confess my ignorance about iframes :(

well this is... here's the link to the page 
http://www.alisha.it/alice/index.html and I notice the horizontal 
scrollbar appears in IE and not Firefox. I tried to the the whole main 
div to 90% width but the horizontal scrollbar still appears and seems 
like it does only when the content is long enough to make appear the 
vertical scrollbar. Then the horizontal one appears only for an extra 
space which seems as large as the vertical scrollbar itself.
Is this some kind of known thing? How can I work it around?


Thanks to anyone who'll be able to help :)

*Alisha*

-- 
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Artworks Portfolio http://www.synthetic-effulgence.com
Webdesign Services http://www.alisha.it

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[css-d] browser stats

[Francesco]

Where are the latest reports/stats on what browsers
are being used on all platforms?

I just launched a new site and BrowserCam shows minor
layout glitches in the following combinations:

Konqueror 3.4.0-5Linux Fedora Core 4
Opera 8.5.0Linux Fedora Core 4
Explorer 5.2Macintosh OSX 10.3
Safari 1.3Macintosh OSX 10.3
Explorer 5.2Macintosh OSX 10.4
Safari 2.0Macintosh OSX 10.4
Explorer 4.0Windows 98
Firefox 1.5.0Linux Fedora Core 4
Opera 8.5.0Macintosh OSX 10.3

...yet every other combination looks perfect.  Is it
worth tearing my hair out to make all the above happy,
or is it only affecting a few percent of my visitors?

Francesco
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Re: [css-d] Horizontal scrollbar on iframe displaying in IE

[Maurice Fonk]

Alisha wrote:
> Here's the problem, doing this layout for a friend of mine I run into 
> this issue about iframes, and since I haven't been using iframes in ages 
> i have no clue about how this works or if this effect is normal and 
> there's an obvious workaround. So i'm sorry if this sounds obvious, i 
> confess my ignorance about iframes :(
>
> well this is... here's the link to the page 
> http://www.alisha.it/alice/index.html and I notice the horizontal 
> scrollbar appears in IE and not Firefox. I tried to the the whole main 
> div to 90% width but the horizontal scrollbar still appears and seems 
> like it does only when the content is long enough to make appear the 
> vertical scrollbar. Then the horizontal one appears only for an extra 
> space which seems as large as the vertical scrollbar itself.
> Is this some kind of known thing? How can I work it around?
>
>
> Thanks to anyone who'll be able to help :)
>
> *Alisha*
>
>   
you might want to give 'overflow:auto' a try. But styling an iframe can 
be difficult...
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Re: [css-d] IE BugFix Required :)

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Kieron McIntyre wrote:
> #left UL LI UL {
>   margin:10px 0 0 10px;
>   padding-bottom:10px;
>   list-style-type:none;
> }
>   

This selector can be simplified to "#left ul ul".


> #left UL LI UL LI {
>   margin:0;
>   padding:0 0 5px 0;
> }
>   

This selector can be simplified to "#left li li".

It doesn't make that big of a difference here, but if throughout your 
style sheet you spelled out every level of nesting, it could really add 
up. Remember that descendant selectors are not the same as child 
selectors: you don't have to list every level, just the ancestor and 
descendant, no matter how much stuff is in between.
http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/selectors_descendant.htm 
(highly recommended read)

> Having a CSS goal is great too but don't be in a rush. Many of the
> problems occur because people don't spend long enough on the
> fundamentals! The ones who do become the "Eric Meyers" I guess.
>   

I very much agree. :-) Take the time to really learn how CSS works, 
instead of just how to achieve effect XX with it.

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] Horizontal scrollbar on iframe displaying in IE

[Esca]

that's it!

Alisha wrote:
> Here's the problem, doing this layout for a friend of mine I run into 
> this issue about iframes, and since I haven't been using iframes in 
ages 
> i have no clue about how this works or if this effect is normal and 
> there's an obvious workaround. So i'm sorry if this sounds obvious, i 
> confess my ignorance about iframes :(
>
> well this is... here's the link to the page 
> http://www.alisha.it/alice/index.html and I notice the horizontal 
> scrollbar appears in IE and not Firefox. I tried to the the whole 
main 
> div to 90% width but the horizontal scrollbar still appears and seems 
> like it does only when the content is long enough to make appear the 
> vertical scrollbar. Then the horizontal one appears only for an extra 
> space which seems as large as the vertical scrollbar itself.
> Is this some kind of known thing? How can I work it around?
>
>
> Thanks to anyone who'll be able to help :)
>
> *Alisha*
>
>   



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Re: [css-d] Horizontal scrollbar on iframe displaying in IE

[Alisha]

well that really didn't do anything actually.
and for the record, I also though about making something like 
overflow-x:hidden.
but i would have also liked to know the reason of this strange behavior 
of IE.

thanks anyway for your time :)

*Alisha*


Ena Escañan wrote:
> 
>
> that's it!
>
> Alisha wrote:
>   
>> Here's the problem, doing this layout for a friend of mine I run into 
>> this issue about iframes, and since I haven't been using iframes in 
>> 
> ages 
>   
>> i have no clue about how this works or if this effect is normal and 
>> there's an obvious workaround. So i'm sorry if this sounds obvious, i 
>> confess my ignorance about iframes :(
>>
>> well this is... here's the link to the page 
>> http://www.alisha.it/alice/index.html and I notice the horizontal 
>> scrollbar appears in IE and not Firefox. I tried to the the whole 
>> 
> main 
>   
>> div to 90% width but the horizontal scrollbar still appears and seems 
>> like it does only when the content is long enough to make appear the 
>> vertical scrollbar. Then the horizontal one appears only for an extra 
>> space which seems as large as the vertical scrollbar itself.
>> Is this some kind of known thing? How can I work it around?
>>
>>
>> Thanks to anyone who'll be able to help :)
>>
>> *Alisha*
>>
>>   
>> 
>
>
>
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>
>
>   


-- 
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Artworks Portfolio http://www.synthetic-effulgence.com
Webdesign Services http://www.alisha.it

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Re: [css-d] 3 column fluid, header and footer - the best layout

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Trevor Boult wrote:
> I'm currently re-designing my Agriculture site 
> (http://www.ukagriculture.com) and wanted to know what is regarded as the 
> best fluid "3 column, header and footer" layout.
>
> I seem to be in-undated with choices and can't work out which is the best 
> option.
>   

There is no one best option, but there are better and worse options 
based on your design requirements.
Do you need all three columns to be fluid, or just the center one?
Do you need a minimum and/or maximum width?
Will any of your columns contains large, unbreakable content (such as 
images or tables)?
Does the footer need to span all three columns or just the middle one?
Does the footer need to appear in the viewport at all times?
Do the columns need to appear equal in height?
Is search engine optimization very important?
Etc.

> My dev pages are here http://www.tboult.co.uk/dev/ag/
>
> I seem to have issues with my current choice regarding the header not being 
> consitent in IE and Firefox.
>
> This impacts the menu (DHTML menu builder) on the countryside page linked 
> from the index page (the only link currently working). I have left a 1px 
> border on the top div to see the difference.
>   

To get the display more consistent, I would work on improving the 
underlying structure first. Your XHTML could use some work. First, I 
would switch to HTML 4.01, since you have a number of validation errors 
for XHTML currently. If you don't need to use XHTML, and aren't yet 
familiar with its high standards or ready to conform to them strictly, 
HTML is a better (and perfectly acceptable) option.

Once you switch to HTML, you still need to fix the validation errors 
that remain. The most important one is to get that style element out of 
the body and into the head.

Next, I would change all those classes on your layout divs to ids, and 
change the id names to more intuitive names. For instance, change 
.column-one to #global-links or something similar.

Next, work on improving your semantic markup. For instance, mark up all 
the headings (such as the words "Topics" in the left col) as headings 
from h1 to h6. Mark up all the lists (such as the list of links in the 
header) as lists. This will allow you to greatly simplify your markup. 
For instance, your header currently has this markup:


 
UK AgricultureFarming & the Countryside - 
whats going on and why? 

Home About Us 
   Terms    Submit-URL 
   E-Card

 

 
   





You could remove several of these divs and simplify the markup to this:


UK AgricultureFarming & the Countryside - 
whats going on and why? 

  HomeAbout 
UsTermsSubmit-URLE-Card
  
 
  




You can then use one of the methods in this article to get the header 
content to split between the left and right:
http://www.communitymx.com/abstract.cfm?cid=529B0

That should get you started.

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] browser stats

[Christian Heilmann]

> Where are the latest reports/stats on what browsers
> are being used on all platforms?

http://www.thatawesomewebsitethatmonitorsthewholewideworldandcreateswickedstatsforfree.com

> I just launched a new site and BrowserCam shows minor
> layout glitches in the following combinations:
> ...yet every other combination looks perfect.  Is it
> worth tearing my hair out to make all the above happy,
> or is it only affecting a few percent of my visitors?

I think the place to look is your own stats for that kind of information.
Also don't forget that browsercam only gives you screenshots of the
rendering of the pages, while most problems with browsers and web
sites happen while clicking through it / sending data / filling forms
/ using the interface.
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Re: [css-d] Horizontal scrollbar on iframe displaying in IE

[Shelly Cole]

 >>I notice the horizontal scrollbar appears in IE and not Firefox<<

I can't remember why IE does this...but it does.  Just another reason  
to love IE, I guess!

Anyway, anytime I've ever needed to fix this problem is by using a  
conditional comment to serve up the thing to fix IE.  It's been a  
while, but it's either:

overflow-y:scroll;

or

overflow-y:auto;

Something like that.  Then the horizontal one doesn't appear in IE.   
Of course, now that I think about it - this worked for the CSS iFrame  
(not really an iFrame, just looks like one!)...so if the above  
doesn't work, then maybe you need to make the width less than 90%?

If my office hadn't been flooded a few days ago, I could look in my  
files for you (my computer had to be taken apart for the cleanup!)  
and tell you exactly what the fix is - but off the top of my head  
that's what I had to do to fix it.  So play with that and you'll  
probably figure it out :)  Usually, you all around here are lots  
smarter than me!

~Shelly
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Re: [css-d] browser stats

[Phil Pickering]

On 09/06/06, Francesco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Where are the latest reports/stats on what browsers
> are being used on all platforms?


The results possibly favour Firefox, but these are the only browser
statistics I know of:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

There might be others out there which are more accurate.

Phil
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[css-d] div overlap problems

[Ian - Mediamint]

Hi

I'm a bit of a bveginner when i comes to css but i've been trying to create 
this site:

http://www.rumourmill.co.uk

http://www.rumourmill.co.uk/css/style.css

It worked fine in IE, but then when i tried it in firefox the divs seemed to 
overlap.  I think i've fixed that, but i can't get the sizes of the divs to 
stay the same size in IE & firefox.

Can anyone help??

Thanks
Ian
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Re: [css-d] Horizontal scrollbar on iframe displaying in IE

[Esca]

oh, i'm sorry, i thought you wanted to remove the big scrollbar on the extreme 
right of the whole page. My bad. Sorry Again.

Alisha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: well that really didn't do anything actually.
and for the record, I also though about making something like 
overflow-x:hidden.
but i would have also liked to know the reason of this strange behavior 
of IE.

thanks anyway for your time :)

*Alisha*


Ena Esca�an wrote:
> 
>
> that's it!
>
> Alisha wrote:
>   
>> Here's the problem, doing this layout for a friend of mine I run into 
>> this issue about iframes, and since I haven't been using iframes in 
>> 
> ages 
>   
>> i have no clue about how this works or if this effect is normal and 
>> there's an obvious workaround. So i'm sorry if this sounds obvious, i 
>> confess my ignorance about iframes :(
>>
>> well this is... here's the link to the page 
>> http://www.alisha.it/alice/index.html and I notice the horizontal 
>> scrollbar appears in IE and not Firefox. I tried to the the whole 
>> 
> main 
>   
>> div to 90% width but the horizontal scrollbar still appears and seems 
>> like it does only when the content is long enough to make appear the 
>> vertical scrollbar. Then the horizontal one appears only for an extra 
>> space which seems as large as the vertical scrollbar itself.
>> Is this some kind of known thing? How can I work it around?
>>
>>
>> Thanks to anyone who'll be able to help :)
>>
>> *Alisha*
>>
>>   
>> 
>
>
>
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>
>
>   


-- 
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Re: [css-d] browser stats

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Francesco wrote:
> Where are the latest reports/stats on what browsers
> are being used on all platforms?
>   

Francesco,

This is a question that has no answer. See this page:
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=BrowserStats

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] div overlap problems

[Maurice Fonk]

What you have here is a typical example of a different box model in IE 
and FF...

have a look at:
http://tantek.com/CSS/Examples/boxmodelhack.html

good luck!
M.J. Fonk

Ian - Mediamint wrote:
> Hi
>
> I'm a bit of a bveginner when i comes to css but i've been trying to create 
> this site:
>
> http://www.rumourmill.co.uk
>
> http://www.rumourmill.co.uk/css/style.css
>
> It worked fine in IE, but then when i tried it in firefox the divs seemed to 
> overlap.  I think i've fixed that, but i can't get the sizes of the divs to 
> stay the same size in IE & firefox.
>
> Can anyone help??
>
> Thanks
> Ian
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>   

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Re: [css-d] footerStickAlt method not working on my site

[Brett Leber]

On 6/9/2006 7:10 AM, Alex James wrote:
> Brett wrote:
>> Please see http://dawkins.ctat.cs.cmu.edu/
>> My goal is the same as footerStickAlt [1]. I can't get this footer to 
> stick to the bottom of the page in any browser.
> 
> Brett,
> 
> Try the following: 
> 
> Remove margin-bottom:10em; from the #nonfooter declaration.
> 
> Add clear: both; to the #footer. 
> 
> In FF this will now stick unfortunately it's still not expanding to the
> full width of your layout. Maybe some one else can shed some light on
> this? I'm confused as firstly you didn't declare a negative value for
> margin-top in the #footer like the Man-In-Blue[1] example and secondly
> why adding the clearing property partially works?
> 
> Oh, and that mainstyles.css file is a beast!
> 
> Thanks,
> Alex  
> 
> [1] http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2005/08/29/#content

I've removed #nonfooter's margin-bottom, and added clear:both to #footer 
(I believe I've tried this before). The result is good for long pages, 
but short pages are still problematic (see 
http://dawkins.ctat.cs.cmu.edu/index.php?id=download ).

I could add a negative margin to #footer as per the Man-In-Blue example, 
but in that example, the negative margin moved the footer from outside 
the viewport into it. On my page, the footer is already inside the 
viewport, so adding a negative margin would just push it up further. As 
I mentioned, I think something interesting is going on with the 
computation of 'height'; I think height isn't taking the height of my 
#sponsors div into account.

Also, using the webdeveloper toolbar, I can see that the footer isn't 
even being pushed to after the #nonfooter div (which is the premise of 
footerStickAlt)!

Sorry for the beastly mainstyles.css. I could certainly split it up in 
the future.

Thanks,

Brett
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[css-d] font-size in Firefox

[john . e . guchemand]

There is a little something I am having a problem with in Firefox, if you
can imagine that!  I was working on something that all needed to fit on one
page for printing, and it required the font-size to be pretty small (but
not unreadable, mind you).  I tried setting the font-size value to .5em,
which is smaller in IE6 than in Firefox (1.5.0.4).  So, I wanted it just a
tad bit smaller in Firefox, and set the value at .4.  Well nothing changed
(in Firefox).

Apparently .5em or 10px or 7pt is as small as the text will get in Firefox;
whereas in IE, you can even make it smaller than that (if you really needed
to).  I have also tried percentages and have gotten the same result.  It
seems like Firefox should be able to scale the font size down to whatever
you want, even if it would take a 50lb magnifying glass to read.  I assume
this is a possible bug on Mozilla's side (intentional?) Does anyone have
any insight into this?


Just to clarify,  I am not talking about setting my own user preferences in
Firefox, but actually setting the font size smaller with css in Firefox for
anyone looking at the page.

Cheers,

John

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Re: [css-d] Horizontal scrollbar on iframe displaying in IE

[Sander van Surksum]

Put scrolling to yes in your iframe and change your doctype to 

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd";>

That will solve your problem

Regards

Sander van Surksum

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shelly Cole
Sent: vrijdag 9 juni 2006 14:40
To: Alisha
Cc: CSS-D
Subject: Re: [css-d] Horizontal scrollbar on iframe displaying in IE


 >>I notice the horizontal scrollbar appears in IE and not Firefox<<

I can't remember why IE does this...but it does.  Just another reason  
to love IE, I guess!

Anyway, anytime I've ever needed to fix this problem is by using a  
conditional comment to serve up the thing to fix IE.  It's been a  
while, but it's either:

overflow-y:scroll;

or

overflow-y:auto;

Something like that.  Then the horizontal one doesn't appear in IE.   
Of course, now that I think about it - this worked for the CSS iFrame  
(not really an iFrame, just looks like one!)...so if the above  
doesn't work, then maybe you need to make the width less than 90%?

If my office hadn't been flooded a few days ago, I could look in my  
files for you (my computer had to be taken apart for the cleanup!)  
and tell you exactly what the fix is - but off the top of my head  
that's what I had to do to fix it.  So play with that and you'll  
probably figure it out :)  Usually, you all around here are lots  
smarter than me!

~Shelly
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Re: [css-d] Jumping DIV in IE

[petichok]

On Jun 9, 2006, at 7:09 AM, Rainer Wagener wrote:

>> I thought it might be a hasLayout issue so I added "zoom: 1;" to
>> everything I could think of, but that didn't seem to do
>> anything.
>
> Did you think of div#siteinfo?
> Aplying zoom:1 to that div solved it for me.
> Strange enough, but it's IE.

Rainer,

Thanks for the tip. I just tried that and it seemed to work on the 
first refresh, but not on subsequent refreshes. Any other ideas?


--Peter Bird--

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Re: [css-d] 3 column fluid, header and footer - the best layout

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Trevor Boult wrote:

> I'm currently re-designing my Agriculture site 
> (http://www.ukagriculture.com) and wanted to know what is regarded as
>  the best fluid "3 column, header and footer" layout.
> 
> I seem to be in-undated with choices and can't work out which is the 
> best option.

"Best option" is a mix of 'personal preferences' and 'what works' - in
each case.

You can probably narrow it down to a manageable number of choices, _if_
you start by not bothering with the CSS layout at all. Seriously.

The best CSS layout options are most often those that let the content
make most sense when CSS is off.
Get a Lynx, or open your site for lynxview...

...and optimize/organize it to 'make most sense' on that level. That
will give you the best base for choosing layout option.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] footerStickAlt method not working on my site

[Alex James]

Brett wrote: 

> I've removed #nonfooter's margin-bottom, and added clear:both to
#footer 
(I believe I've tried this before). The result is good for long pages, 
but short pages are still problematic (see
http://dawkins.ctat.cs.cmu.edu/index.php?id=download ).

For the short page example I removed the min-height: 100%; from the
#nonfooter, with margin-bottom set this seems to work?

> Sorry for the beastly mainstyles.css. I could certainly split it up in

the future.

How about just organizing some of those ID's & classes into shared
declaration's? For example you could declare the following: 

#centercontent h1, #centercontent h2, #centercontent h3, #centercontent
li a { font-weight:normal; } 

Apply this method through the rest of the stylesheet and it may save
some scrolling! 

Thanks,
Alex

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Re: [css-d] footerStickAlt method not working on my site

[Brett Leber]

On 6/9/2006 9:31 AM, Alex James wrote:
> How about just organizing some of those ID's & classes into shared
> declaration's? For example you could declare the following: 
> 
> #centercontent h1, #centercontent h2, #centercontent h3, #centercontent
> li a { font-weight:normal; } 
> 
> Apply this method through the rest of the stylesheet and it may save
> some scrolling! 

Sure, I'll do that. I'm more concerned about the pesky footer 
positioning at the moment! ;)

Brett
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Re: [css-d] font-size in Firefox

[Nick Fitzsimons]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Apparently .5em or 10px or 7pt is as small as the text will get in Firefox;
> whereas in IE, you can even make it smaller than that (if you really needed
> to).  I have also tried percentages and have gotten the same result.  It
> seems like Firefox should be able to scale the font size down to whatever
> you want, even if it would take a 50lb magnifying glass to read.  I assume
> this is a possible bug on Mozilla's side (intentional?) Does anyone have
> any insight into this?
> 

Firefox, Opera, and possibly Safari have a minimum font size preference; 
no matter what size you set (e.g. font-size: 1px;) the font won't be 
made any smaller. In FF it's on the Content tab, font fieldset, Advanced 
button.

If you can control the users' browsers (e.g. this is on an intranet) you 
can change the preference for all of them or get them to do it 
themselves; otherwise you'll have to accept it. (I doubt that exhorting 
people to fiddle with browser options for the sake of printing one page 
is going to work.)

FWIW, Opera uses 9px as the minimum (at least as of version 9 Beta on 
Windows, and since version 7 on the Mac); I think FF does the same, but 
I seem to have set the option to "none" when experimenting with this a 
while back, so maybe it's 10px, as you suggest.

Cheers,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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[css-d] style descendant elements of a table column in IE

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

I have a really big table that contains input fields in most cells. The 
client wants some of these input fields to be a certain width, and 
others to be larger. I can accomplish this in Firefox and other browsers 
who understand child selectors easily like this:

#costsheet input {
width: 3em;
}
#costsheet td + td + td + td + td + td + td input {
width: 6em;
}

However, I can't figure out a way to assign widths to input elements in 
specific columns in IE. I have set up col elements within the table and 
assigned them all ids. This allows me to style the table cells within 
that column in IE. However, I can't style any child elements of the 
table cells, just the cells themselves. This doesn't work:

#col-default input {
width: 6em;
}

This is not surprising, since the input elements are not actually 
descendants of the columns, and even IE appears to get this right. (By 
the way, adding the td element into the selector doesn't help.) I'm 
guessing there is no way to use descendant selectors to target input 
elements in specific columns in IE.

So does anyone have any other ideas, short of putting a class on every 
single input element that needs another width (that would be awful!)?

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] div overlap problems

[Ed Seehouse]

On 6/9/06, Ian - Mediamint <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It worked fine in IE, but then when i tried it in firefox the divs seemed
> to overlap.  I think i've fixed that, but i can't get the sizes of the divs 
> to > stay the same size in IE & firefox.

Your doctype declaration is insufficient to put IE into standards
mode.  This means that IE will render box widths in a non-standard and
incorrect way.

Ed Seedhouse
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Re: [css-d] font-size in Firefox

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jun 9, 2006, at 10:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Apparently .5em or 10px or 7pt is as small as the text will get in  
> Firefox;
> whereas in IE, you can even make it smaller than that (if you  
> really needed
> to).  I have also tried percentages and have gotten the same  
> result.  It
> seems like Firefox should be able to scale the font size down to  
> whatever
> you want, even if it would take a 50lb magnifying glass to read.  I  
> assume
> this is a possible bug on Mozilla's side (intentional?) Does anyone  
> have
> any insight into this?

It is by design. The smallest font-size one can display in Gecko is  
9px. 50lb magnifying glass proved to heavy a download for most  
browser packages.
And as Nick mentions, ultimately, as an author, you have very little  
control over the font-size on the user side.

Most modern browser (minus iExploder) have an user option to set  
minimum font-size (default is none, which means, leave it to the  
defaults of the UA).

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh





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Re: [css-d] Jumping DIV in IE

[Ingo Chao]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> I'm having a strange problem with a jumping, floated/positioned div in 
> IE 6 (and possibly lower). On the page:
> 
> http://clarkson.edu/projects/nanobird/3.4.php
> (CSS: http://clarkson.edu/projects/nanobird/style.css and 
> http://clarkson.edu/projects/nanobird/style_ie55.css)


I think in the ie55.css fix css,


#nav-progress-container-a {

/*  position: absolute;*/
/*  right: 0;*/
/*  margin-right: -1px;*/

clear: none;
}

I don't know if this clear is needed at all. clear and float on the same 
element gives sometimes unexpected results.

Ingo



http://www.satzansatz.de/css.html
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Re: [css-d] font-size in Firefox

[john . e . guchemand]

Thank you Nick and Philippe,

I appreciate your comments (and your humor).  I guess I was just checking
to see if there wasn't something in CSS that I wasn't aware of to make
things smaller.  I agree, the magnifying glass is probably not feasible.

Cheers,

John

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[css-d] Iframe or div?

[Don Miller]

Is there a way to make a . behave like an iframe?  
I want the div to be a certain width and height and keep that size regardless 
of the content but would like a vertical scroll bar to appear if the content is 
longer than the div.

Or would I be better off just using an iframe?

Don Miller
Freelance Technical Writer
Web Designer

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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Re: [css-d] 3 column fluid, header and footer - the best layout

[Trevor Boult]

Hi All,

Well, in the best tradition of doing your first liquid layout, I've junked 
my previous versions and now have a new issue.

I'm 99% there for what I need and now have one small bug in IE and not 
Firefox when floating an image to the right.

If you compare this page:

http://www.tboult.co.uk/dev/ag/countryside/woodland_ecosystem.cfm

in IE/Firefox.

I have firefox v1.5.0.4 and IE v6.0.2800.116

You will see my container div in IE extends all the way over to the left 
when floatright is applied to images in the container. Its all ok in 
Firefox.

Any ideas as how I can correct this issue in IE? I'm at a loss, have been 
trying all afternoon :0(

Cheers everyone.

Trevor
http://www.tboult.co.uk


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Re: [css-d] Iframe or div?

[Brian Cummiskey]

Don Miller wrote:
> Is there a way to make a . behave like an iframe?  
> I want the div to be a certain width and height and keep that size regardless 
> of the content but would like a vertical scroll bar to appear if the content 
> is longer than the div.


content


#scroll {
width: 500px;
height: 100px;
overflow-y: scroll;
}


You may get some beef with the validators about the -y part of the 
overflow property.  You can simply use overflow: to get both horiz and 
vert scroll bars however.

> Or would I be better off just using an iframe?

you're never better off using iframes :)


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[css-d] Jello Variation

[Tom Livingston]

Hello list,

I am playing with a variation of Mike Purvis' jello layout (a
variation for me anyway - you may have seen/done this) to make the
entire layout scale proportionally (as opposed to just allowing for
the text to get bigger/smaller).

Can you take a peek - beat on it - and let me know what you think? I
literally just swapped out px for ems. In IE6, when the page
approaches it's intended max-width, there is a weird jump in the
width. A minor thing, but would like to fix it if possible. Got any
ideas?

http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index2.html

Original jello page (using px) is here for comparison:
http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index.html

Thanks a bunch!

-- 


Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] 3 column fluid, header and footer - the best layout

[Brian Cummiskey]

Trevor Boult wrote:

> You will see my container div in IE extends all the way over to the left 
> when floatright is applied to images in the container. Its all ok in 
> Firefox.

I'm not seeing this in IE6.

  I see the last image on the bottom break out of the container though. 
  To fix that, you need to clear:both; inside the container, perhaps as 
a div or other block-level element.


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[css-d] FW: Mail delivery problems

[Rick Faircloth]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:43 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Mail delivery problems

The recipient [EMAIL PROTECTED] had permanent fatal errors.
While talking to 67.18.71.84:
550 Sender verify failed
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Re: [css-d] 3 column fluid, header and footer - the best layout

[Dave Re]

Trevor Boult wrote:
> You will see my container div in IE extends all the way over to the left 
> when floatright is applied to images in the container. Its all ok in 
> Firefox.

 Georg (Gunlaug) turned me on to this:



 Try putting this before each floated image after the first one. IE
apparently has a problem clearing floats, and expands the margins of the
containing divs. If you put it outside the , you can probably get away w/
removing the "clearright" class from the  tags, too. You can/should move
those styles to your style sheet, of course...

 Realize that I'm new to this - but this is real similar to the problem I
was having... :)

-- 
Dave Re Photography
19104 Ventana Ct, Pflugerville, TX 78660
(c) 512.771.2431 -- (h) 512.251.3815
http://www.daverephoto.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [css-d] Iframe or div?

[Don Miller]

Wow, thanks Brian.
Thought it would be much more complex that this.
The more I learn - the less I know.

Don


- Original Message -
From: "Brian Cummiskey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Don Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "CSS-D List" 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Iframe or div?


| Don Miller wrote:
| > Is there a way to make a . behave like an iframe?
| > I want the div to be a certain width and height and keep that size
regardless of the content but would like a vertical scroll bar to appear if
the content is longer than the div.
|
| 
| content
| 
|
| #scroll {
| width: 500px;
| height: 100px;
| overflow-y: scroll;
| }
|
|
| You may get some beef with the validators about the -y part of the
| overflow property.  You can simply use overflow: to get both horiz and
| vert scroll bars however.
|
| > Or would I be better off just using an iframe?
|
| you're never better off using iframes :)
|
|
|
|
|
| --
| No virus found in this incoming message.
| Checked by AVG Free Edition.
| Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/359 - Release Date: 6/8/2006
|
|



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Re: [css-d] 3 column fluid, header and footer - the best layout

[Trevor Boult]

HI David,

Many thanks for that, worked like a dream.

Cheers everyone for you help over the last 2 days, much appreciated.

Trevor



>From: Dave Re <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Trevor Boult <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
>Subject: Re: [css-d] 3 column fluid, header and footer - the best layout
>Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 10:45:57 -0500
>
>
>
>Trevor Boult wrote:
> > You will see my container div in IE extends all the way over to the left
> > when floatright is applied to images in the container. Its all ok in
> > Firefox.
>
>  Georg (Gunlaug) turned me on to this:
>
>
>
>  Try putting this before each floated image after the first one. IE
>apparently has a problem clearing floats, and expands the margins of the
>containing divs. If you put it outside the , you can probably get away 
>w/
>removing the "clearright" class from the  tags, too. You can/should move
>those styles to your style sheet, of course...
>
>  Realize that I'm new to this - but this is real similar to the 
>problem I
>was having... :)
>
>--
>Dave Re Photography
>19104 Ventana Ct, Pflugerville, TX 78660
>(c) 512.771.2431 -- (h) 512.251.3815
>http://www.daverephoto.com -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [css-d] Jumping DIV in IE

[Rainer Wagener]

Hi Peter,

> I'm having a strange problem with a jumping, 
> floated/positioned div in 
> IE 6 (and possibly lower). 

...
 
> I thought it might be a hasLayout issue so I added "zoom: 1;" to 
> everything I could think of, but that didn't seem to do 
> anything. 

Did you think of div#siteinfo?
Aplying zoom:1 to that div solved it for me.
Strange enough, but it's IE.

Rainer

--

www.rohschnitt.de 

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Re: [css-d] Jumping DIV in IE

[Rainer Wagener]

Sorry for posting the same stuff twice.

Here's the right one:

Hi Peter,

> it seemed to work on the
> first refresh, but not on subsequent refreshes. Any other ideas?

Because I applied the 'layout' via Javascript I could not test
refreshing this way. After downloading the side I was unable to
reproduce the problem. Well, until I added the background-image to
#nav-progress-container-a. Funnily enough without the
background-image the jumping does not occur.

It seems like Ingo just got it fixed.


Rainer

--

www.rohschnitt.de

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Re: [css-d] browser stats

[Andreas Kakanis-Silk]

I agree with Christian Heilmann. The only statistics worth looking at 
are your own. A very easily implemented stats package can be found at 
http://www.bbclone.de. It requires no access to server logs, but does 
require php V4+. It will easily give you all the information you need 
about browsers and operating systems, even giving a pie chart of 
visitors by rendering engine.

--
Andreas Kakanis-Silk

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[css-d] Jello Variant

[Tom Livingston]

Trying this again, didn't see it come through...

Hello list,

I am playing with a variation of Mike Purvis' jello layout (a
variation for me anyway - you may have seen/done this) to make the
entire layout scale proportionally (as opposed to just allowing for
the text to get bigger/smaller).

Can you take a peek - beat on it - and let me know what you think? I
literally just swapped out px for ems. In IE6, when the page
approaches it's intended max-width, there is a weird jump in the
width. A minor thing, but would like to fix it if possible. Got any
ideas?

http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index2.html

Original jello page (using px) is here for comparison:
http://66.155.251.18/mlinc.com/test/index.html

Thanks a bunch!

-- 


Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] style descendant elements of a table column in IE

[Michael Landis]

On 6/9/06, Zoe M. Gillenwater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have a really big table that contains input fields in most cells. The
> client wants some of these input fields to be a certain width, and
> others to be larger. I can accomplish this in Firefox and other browsers
> who understand child selectors easily like this:
>
> #costsheet input {
> width: 3em;
> }
> #costsheet td + td + td + td + td + td + td input {
> width: 6em;
> }
>
> However, I can't figure out a way to assign widths to input elements in
> specific columns in IE. I have set up col elements within the table and
> assigned them all ids. This allows me to style the table cells within
> that column in IE. However, I can't style any child elements of the
> table cells, just the cells themselves.



Are the inputs the only elements in those cells? If not, are the cells
fixed-width also, and can you feel confident about the width of the
remaining content of those cells?

If so, you might be able to set the cell widths to, say, 4em and 7em,
respectively, and set the input widths to a percentage that, given a
cell width, will approximate the widths you've defined above.

To do the exact equivalent, you might consider having IE<6 get a
JavaScript that classes the specific inputs, with that class in an
IE<6-only stylesheet, so that IE<6 gets a crutch when IE7 wouldn't
need it.

HTH,

Michael
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[css-d] image map breaks in IE6/Win

[Jay Kinney]

Folks,

I've been refining my site, and added a new Nav Block as an image 
map, largely using techniques found in Any Budd's CSS Mastery book. I 
have the thing working in every browser I've tested, *except* 
IE6/Win. The hover boxes don't work there and neither do the links. 
Needless to say, this is frustrating.

Doing the Nav block as an image map was a solution to the list 
popping out of its div when larger type was chosen in browsers.

Perhaps someone with image map experience can look at my code and 
spot the problem.

http://www.jaykinney.com and
http://www.jaykinney.com/JKsite.css

The XHTML and CSS pass validation.

Many thanks.

Jay Kinney
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Re: [css-d] Jumping DIV in IE

[petichok]

> I think in the ie55.css fix css,
>
>
> #nav-progress-container-a {
>
> /*position: absolute;*/
> /*right: 0;*/
> /*margin-right: -1px;*/
>
>   clear: none;
> }
>
> I don't know if this clear is needed at all. clear and float on the 
> same
> element gives sometimes unexpected results.
>

Ingo and Rainer,

Thanks for your help. I believe I have it solved now!

--Peter Bird

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