Re: [css-d] Language switching

[Jukka K. Korpela]

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007, Chris Chen wrote:

> I am help maintain a website that needs to support switching between English 
> and Chinese languages (preferrably just by clicking on a button/link). Does 
> CSS prescribe a recommended way to do such language switching?

This is a functionality or content issue and not in the realm of CSS. The 
main problems is how to organize the site maintenance so that changes will 
be made in a coordinated manner.

However, if you use the same markup and the same style sheet, basically 
intending to modify the textual content only, then you may need to 
consider some "internationalization" issues in CSS. For example, setting 
widths in pixels is particularly problematic, since the length and 
formatting requirements of a piece of text may greatly differ from the 
requirements of its translations. You might find it necessary to divide 
the style sheet into two parts, a general part and a language-specific 
part.

-- 
Jukka "Yucca" Korpela, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

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[css-d] Language switching

[Chris Chen]

Hi,

I am help maintain a website that needs to support switching between English 
and Chinese languages (preferrably just by clicking on a button/link). Does 
CSS prescribe a recommended way to do such language switching?


Thanks,
Pai-Hung

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Re: [css-d] What's the proper way to vertically center an element within its parent?

[Chris Chen]

The modern way to do this, since a menu (even a horizontal one) is
just a list of links, is to use the UL element as the wrapper.  The
anchors then go in the LI elements within.  See for example the
Listamatic site at http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/


COOL! I am happily switching  + inline :-). One caveat is that inlined 
 introduced an unknown fixed padding that I have to compensate for via 
experiment (since I need to center the list in the middle). This is IE7.


Thanks,
Chris

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Re: [css-d] media=print/css problems with IE7

[Ingo Chao]

Bruce MacKay wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> IE7 users on one of my sites are having a problem in printing out a 
> long (html) document.  In all browsers except IE7, three pages appear 
> in the print preview and three pages are printed.
> 
> For IE7 users, the print preview shows 3 pages, but only the first 
> one contains content.
> 
> When I remove the media=print stylesheet 
> (http://107writing.massey.ac.nz/scripts/print.css) from the page, the 
> problem disappears.
> 
> I cannot find anything in the print.css file that should be causing 
> the observed problem - obviously there is, so I must be blind.
> 
> Can someone sighted help me here.
> 

in another thread

> The page that is not printing properly in IE7 is here: 
> http://107writing.massey.ac.nz/lessons.htm

Bruce, the problems seems to be resolved now. Can you share the fix with 
the list?


Ingo

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[css-d] Width blowout in IE

[Mark Lundquist]

OK... this layout is almost done, thx to everyone who's helped me 
out...:

dev.hearthstone.wd-2.net

The only thing left is that gray footer sort of thing.  In Exploder, 
it... well, it blows up :-(.  You can see what I'm shooting for in 
Firefox or Safari, which do the right thing.  I'm relying on the 
default "overflow: visible", and IE won't play ball.

Any ideas how to work around this?

thx,
—ml—

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Re: [css-d] table height problem: FF vs. Safari

[Mark Lundquist]

On Mar 4, 2007, at 12:57 AM, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

> Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
>> Maybe you can get away with something like this...
>> 
>
> ...which also comes in an "any column longest" non-table version...
>
> 

Now, that... is sweet.

OK, so this is one of those "float with negative margins" tricks I've 
seen you mention... I'll have to study it and figure out how it works.

thx a lot,
—ml—

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Re: [css-d] table height problem: FF vs. Safari

[Mark Lundquist]

On Mar 3, 2007, at 10:28 PM, francky wrote:

> Then, as I tried to say some days ago,  
> 
> in table design, I think you can make a 3x2 table, with sliced images.  
> Top parts can be a bottom-right positioned background-img in the txt  
> columns, bottom parts (clickable!) can be right-aligned foreground  
> images in the bottom row.
>
>* Like this
>   
>  screenshot-marktable.gif>
>
> That's the theory. Now reality:
>
>* 3 Columns with background images on the bottom
>   
>  marktable.htm>

Francky, thx a lot for taking the time to make up a custom example for  
me :-)... you guys are the best.

I had thought of the 3x2 way before too, but really was hoping there  
was some better way.  In general I don't do "slices" (especially image  
slices).  My brain just doesn't work that way.  To me, things that look  
like they are probably elements, should really be elements in the  
markup.  Gee, just because I'm willing to use a  doesn't mean I  
have no principles at all! :-).  "Slices" are just too bletcherous and  
old-skool.  I looked at Georg's sample and decided to do it that way...  
even though it had some things that have to be positioned "by hand"  
(whenever I have to give calculate / measure / dead-reckon something  
that it seems the browser should be able to figure out, it always feels  
wrong), I find that solution to be minimally offensive :-)

> FF2 is satisfied, Opera9 as well, IE6 has a small 1px background  
> colored line between top and bottom parts of the table (grmpff!), and
> Saphari is happy too, according to Browsershots  
>  >

Browsershots! :-)  Now that is cool... :-)

thx again,
—ml—
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Re: [css-d] What's the proper way to vertically center an element within its parent?

[Ed Seehouse]

On 3/4/07, Chris Chen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Whatever reason is the span there for?  There's nothing you can do with
> >that construction that you can't do with just the link.
>
> This is for a horizontal navigation bar centered on the top of the page.

The modern way to do this, since a menu (even a horizontal one) is
just a list of links, is to use the UL element as the wrapper.  The
anchors then go in the LI elements within.  See for example the
Listamatic site at http://css.maxdesign.com.au/listamatic/

>   
>  
>   Home
>  Schedule
 > Facilities
>   
>  

This is unnecessarily complicated and semantically meaningless.
Furthermore you don't need all those CSS hooks, you only need a single
ID or class.
All you need is:

> 
>   Home
>   Schedule
>   Facilities
> 

This is two lines shorter, semantically better, easier to understand,
and amazingly flexible (and by no means original with me).  Take a
look at the listamatic site, as I suggested above.  The CSS is a bit
trickier but not much, especially if you understand floats.

--
Ed Seedhouse
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Re: [css-d] table height problem: FF vs. Safari

[Mark Lundquist]

On Mar 3, 2007, at 4:27 PM, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

> Maybe you can get away with something like this...
>
> 

Well — duh, now why didn't I think of that!? :-)

Thanks a lot Georg... I owe you a beer the next time you are in 
Portland, Oregon USA :-)
—ml—

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Re: [css-d] Suckerfish drop downs in IE7

[Blake]

On 3/5/07, Ingo Chao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> #nav ul ul {background:white} seems to help, both for IE6 and IE7.

Yes, it does. Thank you.

Now I have another problem, though. In Firefox and Opera the entire
drop down menu falls apart if I remove these lines of code:

#nav ul ul {
z-index: 1;
}

#nav ul ul ul {
z-index: -1;
}

And in IE7 it's pretty broken anyway. I don't understand why it all
fell apart, though, because I had it working exactly how I wanted
across all browsers and somehow I've destroyed it but I don't remember
changing any code (it's been a long day... :/).

Any ideas?

-- 
Australian Web Designer - http://www.blakehaswell.com/
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Re: [css-d] What's the proper way to vertically center an element within its parent?

[Chris Chen]

I just realized I only need one level of  here to achieve what I want.

Chris

> > Whatever reason is the span there for?  There's nothing you can do 
with

>that
> > construction that you can't do with just the link.

This is for a horizontal navigation bar centered on the top of the page.

> >
>To add to that, if you want to adjust the vertical alignment within a 
block

>of text,
>then you are on the right track with vertical-align (CSS property). Try
>using
>a percentage instead of one of the keywords, and see if you can get the
>effect
>you want. You can also use negative percents to drop it below the 
baseline.

>
>Won't work in IE less than version 6, though. (Or any IE in quirks mode.)

I have the following working satisfactorily in IE non-quirk mode: (no
vertical-align needed for my case)



Home
Schedule
Facilities



body
{
text-align: center;
}

div#navigation_pane_outer
{
width: 100%;
}

div#navigation_pane_inner
{
width: 324px; /* 108 x 3 */
}

a
{
display: block;
float: left;
line-height: 35px;
width: 108px;
background-image: url(../images/link.jpg);
}

The ugly part is to force  to a block. I might as well replace  with 
a

truely block element and change to use scripting to handle the visual cue
change / click, but that would seem overkill for a simple task like this. 
Is

there a strong opposition to to the way I use  above for this task?

By the way, in quirk mode, the above code annoyingly shows an extra "s"
below the three s on a separate line, but it disappears if I increase
div#navigation_pane_inner's width from 324 to 327. Any idea?

Thanks,
Chris


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Re: [css-d] One CSS file for each browser (IE/Firefox)

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote:
> [...]

> What I'm thinking is to server a different css depending on the 
> client's browser. This way I could first layout the website on a more
>  standard compliant browser (FireFox) and then copy the css and start
>  fixing the layout on IE and server this new css if the user uses IE.
>  I would use http header information to detect the browser and then 
> the backend would serve the correct css file.
> 
> What do you think?

Not much.

Such ideas come up from time to time, but the base for them are getting
weaker and weaker as time goes by.

1: Many browsers can fake their identity, partly or completely. This
makes browser-detection pretty unreliable.

2: New browsers / versions may need updated detection and new
stylesheets, which may add to maintenance.

3: Can't really see any need for it with the state of standard-support
we have across browser-land today. (Yes, I know it's a bug-house :-) )


The way most of us do it is to serve one standard-based stylesheet to
all browsers, based on what the good browsers - Opera, Firefox, Safari
etc. - shows us, and then serve _corrective_ styles to IE/win since most
problems are caused by IE's bugs and lack of standard support.
The latest IE usually only needs a few corrections, not an entirely new
stylesheet.


We can use a few hacks in the regular stylesheet to deal with IE's
problems.

We can use 'conditional comments' to target IE/win and serve it one or
more additional stylesheets...

...which probably is the "safest" way to serve _corrective_ stylesheet
to IE/win versions. Supported by IE5.0/win and later versions.

There's also the "a bit more hack'ish" and bug-based CSS only '@import
hack'...

...which separates all Trident-based browsers (IE/win) from the others.
Supported by (the bug is present in) IE5.0/win and later versions - at
least including IE7. No versioning, so that has to be dealt with inside
the extra stylesheet.


These methods won't easily fail when implemented properly (based on what
browsers actually support), since browsers can't really fake their CSS
support. They either support something completely, partially, buggy or
not at all. If we test properly we'll see which one does what.

We just have to avoid making strong predictions about future versions,
and should probably aim for 'progressive enhancement' rather than
'(dis)graceful degradation'...


In short: there's rarely ever a reason to try to drag a weak browser up
to the level a good browser is at. It just has to "come out just fine"
in each browser - separately.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] just for laughs

[bill scheider]

No comment.

B

Hi Branko--
It would much more helpful to me, at least, if you HAD made a comment other
than 'no comment.'

If I'm showing my ignorance, it's only because -- in this case -- I'm
ignorant! :-() What's your point?
Bill Scheider


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[css-d] One CSS file for each browser (IE/Firefox)

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

Hi list,

I'm just starting tableless layout design. I'm on my first pure-css layout
project. While the concept is easy and the workflow in general is kind of
easier than table layouts, I'm getting really frustraded by the differences
I'm getting on my lay when I test it on both FF and IE. What I'm thinking is
to server a different css depending on the client's browser. This way I
could first layout the website on a more standard compliant browser
(FireFox) and then copy the css and start fixing the layout on IE and server
this new css if the user uses IE. I would use http header information to
detect the browser and then the backend would serve the correct css file.

What do you think?

Thanks in advance,

Marcelo.
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Re: [css-d] What's the proper way to vertically center an element within its parent?

[Chris Chen]

> > Whatever reason is the span there for?  There's nothing you can do with 
>that
> > construction that you can't do with just the link.

This is for a horizontal navigation bar centered on the top of the page.

> >
>To add to that, if you want to adjust the vertical alignment within a block 
>of text,
>then you are on the right track with vertical-align (CSS property). Try 
>using
>a percentage instead of one of the keywords, and see if you can get the 
>effect
>you want. You can also use negative percents to drop it below the baseline.
>
>Won't work in IE less than version 6, though. (Or any IE in quirks mode.)

I have the following working satisfactorily in IE non-quirk mode: (no 
vertical-align needed for my case)



Home
Schedule
Facilities



body
{
text-align: center;
}

div#navigation_pane_outer
{
width: 100%;
}

div#navigation_pane_inner
{
width: 324px; /* 108 x 3 */
}

a
{
display: block;
float: left;
line-height: 35px;
width: 108px;
background-image: url(../images/link.jpg);
}

The ugly part is to force  to a block. I might as well replace  with a 
truely block element and change to use scripting to handle the visual cue 
change / click, but that would seem overkill for a simple task like this. Is 
there a strong opposition to to the way I use  above for this task?

By the way, in quirk mode, the above code annoyingly shows an extra "s" 
below the three s on a separate line, but it disappears if I increase 
div#navigation_pane_inner's width from 324 to 327. Any idea?

Thanks,
Chris

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[css-d] just for laughs

[Branko Vukelic]

I stubled across Amaya web site just now.

Look at this page:

http://www.w3.org/Amaya/Amaya.html

If you expand the viewport wide enough, the text following the list will be 
rendered below the sidebar on the left. I could replicate this in Konquerir, 
Opera and Firefox.

No comment.

B
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Re: [css-d] Extra margin after float in IE6

[Ian Young]

 Subject: [css-d] Extra margin after float in IE6
>
>
> Hi, list,
>
> I was not able to find an elegant fix for a few problems below.
> (Both XHTML
> and CSS are valid.)
>

Actually your XHTML is not valid. End tag at line 62 for element "div" which
isn't open.

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inberg.co.yu%2F
news.php

Not saying that that will help with the IE6 problem but needs to be sorted.

Cheers

Ian

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[css-d] Extra margin after float in IE6

[Branko Vukelic]

Hi, list,

I was not able to find an elegant fix for a few problems below. (Both XHTML 
and CSS are valid.)

First this:

http://www.inberg.co.yu/

1. 

The image on the left is floated left. The next box, a div with some text in 
it will not stick close to the image (as it should), but it has some margin 
to the left.

Now, as much as I would like to fix that, I don't want my CSS code to look 
ugly. I want it to be as clear as possible. The problem is not as severe as 
to warrant an extreme fix. Is there such an elegant way of fixing this?

2.

At the bottom of the same page, the dark area should have exactly aligned to 
the bottom of the light-grey area. However, that is not the case in IE6. I 
have absolutely no idea why that is so. Any suggestions?

Next:

3.

I had a peek-a-boo bug on this page:

http://www.inberg.co.yu/e107_plugins/content/content.php?cat.9

The menu to the left is floated left and it seems to be the cause of the 
problem. I have 

#widecol {
  position: relative;
}

for the right column's wrapper div, but it causes the menu to not be 
accessible (cannot be clicked) in Firefox. The menu works in IE6, as well as 
in IE7, except that in IE6, the heading in the right column has, again, some 
extra margin to the left.

Any suggestions are most welcome.

Best Regards,


Branko

p.s.
I could have attached the files, but I didn't know if that was okay with you 
all.
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Re: [css-d] Suckerfish drop downs in IE7

[Ingo Chao]

Blake wrote:
> ...
> The navigation menu is on this very un-styled page:
> 
> 
> Thanks for any help.
> 
> On 3/3/07, Blake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I'm having a problem implementing a CSS drop down menu in IE7 (I don't
>> know how it behaves in IE6). When you hover over 'About Us' or
>> 'Activities' the drop down menu comes down, but as soon as you try to
>> hover over the new links they disappear.

#nav ul ul {background:white} seems to help, both for IE6 and IE7.

Ingo

-- 
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Re: [css-d] How to resolve this?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> So, what _is_ the problem?

Ok, I got it :-)

Replace the   with an HTML comment in the empty span in
#leftnavbar span.ddne, so it becomes...



...and IE will line up correctly. IE6 will will otherwise 'auto-expand'
an element until the content fits inside.


The layout is still terribly weak, but I've commented on the details 
[off-list] since so many tend to lose touch with reality when ordinary 
'font size' issues are presented [on-list] :-)

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] How to resolve this?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> If you look at this in FF its fine, but in IE6-PC its not. No Idea 
> what Mac users are seeing? http://www.linkhomes2000.co.uk/index.php

I'd rather not serve any fixes for IE/win, since the layout is so weak
at the moment that I wouldn't know what to fix for which browser...

Firefox: 
IE6: 

...and all my non-IE browsers (win and Mac) present it like Firefox does.

So, what _is_ the problem?

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Suckerfish drop downs in IE7

[Blake]

Oh gee, I feel like a moron. I forgot to add a link, and I was
wondering why I got no replies.

The navigation menu is on this very un-styled page:


Thanks for any help.

On 3/3/07, Blake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I'm having a problem implementing a CSS drop down menu in IE7 (I don't
> know how it behaves in IE6). When you hover over 'About Us' or
> 'Activities' the drop down menu comes down, but as soon as you try to
> hover over the new links they disappear.
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[css-d] How to resolve this?

[grovesdavid]

Hi,

If you look at this in FF its fine, but in IE6-PC its not. No Idea what Mac
users are seeing?
http://www.linkhomes2000.co.uk/index.php

Any ideas how to resolve this with minimum hack usage please, gratefully
received

.

TIA

DG)




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Re: [css-d] table height problem: FF vs. Safari

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> Maybe you can get away with something like this...
> 
> 

...which also comes in an "any column longest" non-table version...



...in case someone prefer that.

Georg
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