Re: [css-d] Lines clipping in Explorer, and width issue

2008-03-10 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Dave M G wrote:
 http://aimashou.jp/home_page

http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/dmg/test_08_0310.html
http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/dmg/test_08_0310_files/style000.css
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Re: [css-d] A weird CSS problem in IE7

2008-03-10 Thread Usamah M. Ali
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 2:40 AM, Philippe Wittenbergh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  On Mar 10, 2008, at 12:44 AM, Usamah M. Ali wrote:

   About havingLayout, doesn't IE7 need it? I thought hasLayout becomes
   redundant in IE7, am I mistaken?

  Oh, it definitely needs it, in different ways than IE 6 sometimes, but
  'hasLayout' is not dead in IE7.

  IE8 will be anther story (hopefully, promised by the IE dev team)), in
  standard standard mode.



  Philippe
  ---

Well, .searchbox is already having layout (position: relative;). I
triggered hasLayout on the .search_top div itself and so far it
appears to solve it.

Many thanks Phillipe.
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Re: [css-d] Oldest Browser Currently Testing for

2008-03-10 Thread david
Kathy Wheeler wrote:
 On 09/03/2008, at 6:40 AM, Karl Hardisty wrote:
 A comparison of usage before and
 after is generally a good idea.  If a site design changes, and
 suddenly a certain type of browser/platform combination drops off
 markedly, there's probably a good reason.
 
 However it may also pay to check overall traffic trends - if traffic  
 does not drop off, then perhaps those recalcitrant old browser users  
 may have finally decided to upgrade? On the other hand, if you pick  
 up more traffic than you lose ...
 
 It's nice to say you support ie5.5, netscape 4 or whatever, but  
 with the security vulnerabilities inherent in the older unsupported  
 browsers is it really a good idea to encourage users not to upgrade?  
 Are you really doing them a favor?

And what browser would my dear old retired parents (still using a 128MB 
Windows98 PC) use? BTW, Windows98 has paradoxically become more secure - 
a lot of Windows worms and viruses can no longer run on it. ;-)

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[css-d] Curious question inspired by the X-UA compatible thread

2008-03-10 Thread david
If you have an HTML document that happens to contain another HTML 
document in an iframe - and one of the two documents triggers quirks 
mode when rendered by itself - is each one rendered in the same mode or 
does the browser somehow do one in standards mode and one in quirks mode?

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Re: [css-d] Targeting IE8 (was: IE8 is better but still slightly broken)

2008-03-10 Thread Mark Richards
 -Original Message-
 Why are you suggesting in the first place to pollute your 
 source with different conditional comments on every single 
 page of a site. That seems like to much work and maintenance 
 for me. Is that what you do?

Well, the pages of the sites I work on are generated dynamically, using
JSP templates, so for the hundreds of pages there are only about 5
different places where I need to specify what stylesheets are imported,
and it's there that the conditional comments are used to include
IE-specific sheets.

In fact, at runtime the generated page looks on the filesystem and sees
if a stylesheet is present and automatically includes the conditional
comments or not.  So I don't even need to maintain the code, just add
and remove sheets.
 
 div class=ie6fix!-- this class is only needed for 
 IE6/Win or earlier --
 
 All I have to do is pull that line of code out of that 
 include when IE6 disappears over the horizon (2020). This is 
 the filtering hack I'm now using.

And all I need to do is zap a stylesheet file from the disk and it
disappears from every single page and from the generated code.
Furthermore I don't pollute my source with meaningless class names
like ie6fix, instead relying on IE's normal CSS selectors to find
objects with class names that are meaningful in general.

 /*\*//*/
 @import url(test-ie8.css);
 @import(test-ie.css);
 /**/
 @import test-ie; /* For IE5~7/Win */

You seriously feel the above code is more readable, maintainable, and
logical compared to this:

link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=/css/style.css
!--[if IE 7]
link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=/css/style_ie7.css
![endif]--
!--[if IE]
link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=/css/style_ie.css
![endif]--

It's immediately obvious what the above does, even if you've never seen
a conditional comment before.  But unless you know 100% all the bugs and
limitations of the css parser for every version of every browser, your
code is, IMO, illegible.  I suppose if you're the only person who ever
looks at your own code this isn't an issue, but considering how many
people on this list are in charge of maintaining both the CSS AND the
HTML, I'd think that conditional comments would get more use, especially
if you're already using an external IE-specific stylesheet.

 I not targeting browsers but filtering the good browsers out 
 of disastrous mess and rescuing others from the abyss. 

Well, filtering the good browsers is the same as targeting the bad
:) .

Mark
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[css-d] Diff between display:none and visibility:hidden

2008-03-10 Thread Jeff Gates
I know that one difference between display:none and visibility:hidden is 
that the former does not leave space in the layout where the code exists 
on the page, while the latter does. Are there other differences?

Using visibility:hidden I have hidden a whole string of links I need on
the page to use Lightbox 2's slideshow feature. It works as it should.  
But there is white space in the layout where the long list of links
appears in the code. If I use display:none instead, will Lightbox still
see this string of links? I'd like to eliminate the white space in the
layout.

In other words, is the only difference between the display and visibility 
properties that one leaves space in layout and the other doesn't?

Thanks, Jeff

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Re: [css-d] Curious question inspired by the X-UA compatible thread

2008-03-10 Thread Alex Robinson
At 22:36 -1000 9/3/08, david wrote:
If you have an HTML document that happens to contain another HTML
document in an iframe - and one of the two documents triggers quirks
mode when rendered by itself - is each one rendered in the same mode or
does the browser somehow do one in standards mode and one in quirks mode?


I've updated (and moved, but the previous address still works)

http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xuas


You can now change the X-UA target and the mode of the document that 
calls the iframed documents.

I can see no difference at all in how the iframe content is rendered 
regardless of the containing document's X-UA or mode.

So, in answer to your question, the latter. Iframed documents 
rendering is exactly the same as if they were being displayed outside 
of an iframe.

NB. of course there may be some as yet undiscovered condition that 
does cause things to break down (and I make no claims about what the 
different versions of javascript are doing in each iframe).
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Re: [css-d] Targeting IE8 (was: IE8 is better but still slightly broken)

2008-03-10 Thread Alan Gresley
Mark Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Why are you suggesting in the first place to pollute your 
  source with different conditional comments on every single 
  page of a site. That seems like to much work and maintenance 
  for me. Is that what you do?
 
 Well, the pages of the sites I work on are generated dynamically, using
 JSP templates, so for the hundreds of pages there are only about 5
 different places where I need to specify what stylesheets are imported,
 and it's there that the conditional comments are used to include
 IE-specific sheets.
 
 In fact, at runtime the generated page looks on the filesystem and sees
 if a stylesheet is present and automatically includes the conditional
 comments or not.  So I don't even need to maintain the code, just add
 and remove sheets.


Good answer. In your case my reply is off target. I did go through all that for 
everyones benefit. Pages can be put together in many different ways and various 
styles can be fed to particular browsers by various method. Conditional 
Comments can be problematic to maintained and some beginners will start adding 
them to every page. Sometimes if it's not a true CCS rendering issue at all but 
just incorrect understanding of CSS or invalid CSS and markup.



  div class=ie6fix!-- this class is only needed for 
  IE6/Win or earlier --
  
  All I have to do is pull that line of code out of that 
  include when IE6 disappears over the horizon (2020). This is 
  the filtering hack I'm now using.
 
 And all I need to do is zap a stylesheet file from the disk and it
 disappears from every single page and from the generated code.
 Furthermore I don't pollute my source with meaningless class names
 like ie6fix, instead relying on IE's normal CSS selectors to find
 objects with class names that are meaningful in general.


I guess you need proof. I have now removed that meaningless class name from 
that div. Now let see..., point either IE5 or IE6 at this page (soon to be 
updated).

http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/ie-bugs.htm

Now observe how various page elements have now disappeared. The navigation and 
the blue~green strip in the header for instance. Now resize the viewpoint and 
observe my floated element (Honor roll) drop. Should I just stop supporting for 
IE6 now and remove all my other hack for it. When I have finished, there will 
be nothing left. Not quite true some elements will remain. :-)

OK, you can zap a file form here or there and all is fixed but what list is 
this? Does everyone on this list use (I may be mistaken here) PHP? You are 
answering my question with a scripting solution. Will this help a beginner? My 
solutions is entirely based on CSS and markup. Please keep solutions on topic.


  /*\*//*/
  @import url(test-ie8.css);
  @import(test-ie.css);
  /**/
  @import test-ie; /* For IE5~7/Win */
 
 You seriously feel the above code is more readable, maintainable, and
 logical compared to this:
 
 link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=/css/style.css
 !--[if IE 7]
 link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=/css/style_ie7.css
 ![endif]--
 !--[if IE]
 link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=/css/style_ie.css
 ![endif]--


Yes I do. I have changed my import slightly.


/*\*//*/
@import url(test-ie8.css);
@import(test-ie.css); /* IE/Mac */
@import test-ie; /* For IE5~7/Win */


The above code appears on one CSS file. I know exactly what it does. First we 
have the beginning of the IE/Mac pass band filter. Both IE/Mac and IE8 see /*/ 
as /**/ so they parse there respective imports. The filter is closed here /* 
IE/Mac */ and IE7 uses the next import. Only the first import is valid.

Anyhow, I was surfing and I have stumbled on to a new IE8 hack. Some list 
member (Thierry!) has discovered that IE8 doesn't need the beginning /*\*/. I 
haven't tested but I could just have.

/*/
@import url(test-ie8.css); /* IE8 */
@import test-ie; /* For IE5~7/Win */


I find all those linked style sheet redundant. You only need one. Even if you 
had an extra one for IE, why can't you use the star html (* html) or escapes 
within the style sheet to target or filter the difference versions of IE?

Thierry, come on, share what you discovered. :-)


 It's immediately obvious what the above does, even if you've never seen
 a conditional comment before.  But unless you know 100% all the bugs and
 limitations of the css parser for every version of every browser, your
 code is, IMO, illegible.  I suppose if you're the only person who ever
 looks at your own code this isn't an issue, but considering how many
 people on this list are in charge of maintaining both the CSS AND the
 HTML, I'd think that conditional comments would get more use, especially
 if you're already using an external IE-specific stylesheet.


And that's why you should comment both your CSS and markup. We know what IE7 
and IE8 does with those comments. OK, your perspective is from several people 
authorizing the code so when answering keep this in mind that there are also 
those 

Re: [css-d] Targeting IE8 (was: IE8 is better but still slightly broken)

2008-03-10 Thread Mark Richards
 -Original Message-
 From: Alan Gresley 
 Conditional Comments can be problematic to maintained and some
beginners 
 will start adding them to every page. Sometimes if it's not a 
 true CCS rendering issue at all but just incorrect 
 understanding of CSS or invalid CSS and markup.

I don't see how that problem is different from CSS hacks that import
separate stylesheets, actually.

 Should I just stop supporting for IE6 now and remove all my 
 other hack for it. When I have finished, there will be nothing 
 left. Not quite true some elements will remain. :-)

I'm not saying don't target.
 
 OK, you can zap a file form here or there and all is fixed 
 but what list is this? Does everyone on this list use (I may 
 be mistaken here) PHP? You are answering my question with a 
 scripting solution. Will this help a beginner? My solutions 
 is entirely based on CSS and markup. Please keep solutions on topic.

Ok, I admit that server-side scripting is off-topic, but then so is
code-maintenance in general.  Personally I would be astonished to find
that most people are NOT using some server-side scripting system; who
has a totally static website in 2008?  And anyway, even if your website
IS static, that suggests that there are only a few pages.  If you're
maintaining a large site without some code generation and templates, I
feel sorry for you :)

As for helping beginners, I think conditional comments are still a
better solution than hacks specifically because they are easier for
beginners to understand.  Anyone who can grasp a tiny bit of JavaScript,
and surely someone who can use the more advanced CSS selectors should be
able to understand the syntax of a conditional comment, and won't need
to worry about what the hacks are or how they work.  And when you first
encounter a conditional comment on a page, even if you've never heard of
it, you can at least intuit what it does.  Not so with a hack.


  You seriously feel the above code is more readable, maintainable
 Yes I do. I have changed my import slightly.
 
 
 /*\*//*/
 @import url(test-ie8.css);
 @import(test-ie.css); /* IE/Mac */
 @import test-ie; /* For IE5~7/Win */

So in order to be able to use this you need to understand that all three
constructs, which look (to me) like they should do the exact same thing,
actually work or don't work based on the browser you are using.  It's
also possible that there are other browsers out there that will read
these imports (correctly or incorrectly) depending on what bugs THAT
browser has.

 The above code appears on one CSS file. I know exactly what 
 it does. 

But no beginner does, and not necessarily every CSS dev either.  I know
about these hacks from this list, but I'd have to look up what the hacks
are for.

Hacks are based on doing something WRONG in CSS but having the browser
do something RIGHT in response.  If the CSS code isn't valid the
browser should do NOTHING, but in the case of a hack it does something.
Exploiting that error is confusing to people who usually write correct
code, expecting that incorrect code will do nothing.

 I find all those linked style sheet redundant. You only need 
 one. Even if you had an extra one for IE, why can't you use 
 the star html (* html) or escapes within the style sheet to 
 target or filter the difference versions of IE?

Because different versions of IE have different features and different
bugs, and require different fixes.  Separating the fixes required makes
it easier to drop support later on, or to fix a bug without possibly
breaking the other browsers if they don't have that bug.  Anyway it's
the same thing as your example: an IE stylesheet for every version that
needs it (remember: if I don't need any IE7 fixes I don't have an IE7
sheet and the script doesn't put that comment into the page).  Most of
my pages have just an IE6 sheet, actually.  (Where I work we don't
support IE/Mac).

 And that's why you should comment both your CSS and markup. 
 We know what IE7 and IE8 does with those comments. OK, your 
 perspective is from several people authorizing the code so 
 when answering keep this in mind that there are also those 
 single author. The full spectrum.

In my experience even a single author can be confused by his own code
later on.  Comments help but they're not always there and not always
right.  Doing things in a clear way from the beginning means less
reverse-engineering later.

 Yes I am targeting. Should I pull those imports out and make 
 those pages look awful for IE/Mac, IE7 and IE8. Please tell 
 me how else I can do this without conditional comment.

I'm not saying don't target.  We have to target.  It's a sad necessity
because the browsers all have different capabilities and bugs.  I also
agree with putting browser-specific fixes into browser-specific sheets.
I think it's reasonable to design stuff so that fixes required are kept
to a minimum, but sometimes you just have to fix some browser's broken
implementation.  Naturally you want 

Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved

2008-03-10 Thread Alex Robinson

I've seen a couple of other cases (not related to parsing/selectors
problems but to rendering) where IE8 quirks is equal to IE7 quirks
when this differs from IE6 quirks.


Also, I just noticed (again, this may be old news by now) that 
fieldsets and input buttons (and presumably all form elements) are 
displayed in the manner of IE7 when X-UA is IE=5.


So, to recap

IE=5  -  IE7's quirks mode (regardless of doctype)

IE=7 -   IE7's standards mode (Standards or Quirks mode with doctype 
and no url)
  IE7's standards-ish mode ignoring *+html (Quirks mode without doctype)

IE=8 -   IE8 native (Standards or Quirks mode with doctype and no url)
  IE8 native-ish mode ignoring *+html (Quirks mode without doctype)


Pretty much then what Microsoft have said then, but perhaps this 
would have been easier to digest, if it was IE=quirks instead of IE=5 
and that it had been explicitly spelt out that it was IE7's quirks 
mode that was meant.

Now, as an aside and not being particularly expert on quirks mode 
rendering, are there any specific differences (other than the ones 
just discussed) that anyone is aware of between IE6 quirks mode and 
IE7 quirks mode? (I'm fully aware of their being many standards mode 
issues ;)
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Re: [css-d] Site check

2008-03-10 Thread Cynthia Villegas
Hi David, 

I happen to be following this post closely, since Phoebe seems to have all the 
questions I had. 

I validated all my pages, with the validate site, both html  css, fixed many 
mistakes I have and learned a lot! (the only thing that didn't pass the 
validation was the rss on this page: 
http://homepage.mac.com/cynvill_3/website/journalism.html (latest articles) but 
I couldn't figure out how to fix it, so I guess I can leave it for now...)

Thanks so much!!!

ps. I am really interested in raising the bar another notch

;)

Cheers, 

Cynthia

David Laakso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phoebe Taylor wrote:
 Wow, learning a lot here.  Now things validate.



re: 

Awesome.

Interested in raising the bar another notch?

Best,

~dL

PS Ain't no mister hereabout. Just another bozo on the back of the bus.



-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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-
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[css-d] IE7 spacing blowout problem on Stu Nicholls' Snazzy Borders code

2008-03-10 Thread Eriol Hiragizawa
Hi,
I'm modifying code from Stu Nicholls' Snazzy Borders code, referenced here:
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/snazzy.html

As he stated, this works in modern browsers.  However, I tried putting
only a form field in here, and it blows out the spacing above and
below the content area in IE7 only. Firefox 2.x doesn't do this.  I
tried to use the IE Web Developer Toolbar to examine the content area,
but I cannot select the whitespace, so I don't know which element(s)
may be generating it.  Any ideas or help would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

--Stephen


HTML:
div class=xsnazzy
b class=xtopb class=xb1/bb class=xb2/bb
class=xb3/bb class=xb4/b/b
div class=xboxcontent

form method=post action=# name=searchForm id=searchForm
fieldset
legendSearch Site/legend
label for=searchKeywordsEnter Keywords/label
input type=text id=searchKeywords name=searchKeywords
class=searchfield /
input type=submit name=Search value=Search class=searchbutton /
/fieldset
/form
/div
b class=xbottomb class=xb4/bb class=xb3/bb
class=xb2/bb class=xb1/b/b
/div


CSS:
style type=text/css
/* Stu Nicholl's code */
.xsnazzy h1,
.xsnazzy h2,
.xsnazzy p {margin:0 10px; letter-spacing:1px;}
.xsnazzy h1 {font-size:2.5em; color:#fff;}
.xsnazzy h2 {font-size:2em;color:#06a; border:0;}
.xsnazzy p {padding-bottom:0.5em;}
.xsnazzy h2 {padding-top:0.5em;}
.xsnazzy {background: transparent; margin:1em;}

.xtop, .xbottom {display:block; background:transparent; font-size:1px;}
.xb1, .xb2, .xb3, .xb4 {display:block; overflow:hidden;}
.xb1, .xb2, .xb3 {height:1px;}
.xb2, .xb3, .xb4 {background:#ccc; border-left:1px solid #08c;
border-right:1px solid #08c;}
.xb1 {margin:0 5px; background:#08c;}
.xb2 {margin:0 3px; border-width:0 2px;}
.xb3 {margin:0 2px;}
.xb4 {height:2px; margin:0 1px;}

.xboxcontent {display:block; background:#ccc; border:0 solid #08c;
border-width:0 1px;}

body {background-color: #013976;}

#searchForm legend {
display: none;
}

#searchForm label {
display: none;
}

#searchForm fieldset {
border: none;
}
/style
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[css-d] IE8 hack?

2008-03-10 Thread Nancy E. Sosna Bohm
Yes, I know, in a perfect site there's no need for hacks.

But this is a just slightly less-than perfectly coded site I did a year ago,
and it breaks in IE8.
I can fix most of it, but some widths in IE8 don't match up with widths in
FireFox, and IE8 ignores !ie.
So, does this mean conditional comments for IE8, or does anyone have an easy
hack up your sleeve?
Sorry if this has already been addressed; I haven't received my CSS-D Digest
in a couple of days.

Thanks in advance,
Nancy Sosna

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[css-d] background image shifts next to heading??

2008-03-10 Thread Rob freeman
Hi everyone, My site is near completion. The only problem is a
background image which appears next to the headings (Styles and
Effects headings etc..) seems to drop slightly in Firefox at work,
though it seems fine in Firefox and safari on my Laptop and PC.

I'm sure its to do with the headings at 110% how can I make sure the
arrow icon always sits centred vertically next to the headings?

here is the link:
http://www.coloursense.net/testfolder/


could anyone help



Rob Freeman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [css-d] IE7 spacing blowout problem on Stu Nicholls' Snazzy Borders code

2008-03-10 Thread Susan Grossman
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Eriol Hiragizawa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi,
 I'm modifying code from Stu Nicholls' Snazzy Borders code, referenced
 here:
 http://www.cssplay.co.uk/boxes/snazzy.html

 As he stated, this works in modern browsers.  However, I tried putting
 only a form field in here, and it blows out the spacing above and
 below the content area in IE7 only. Firefox 2.x doesn't do this.  I
 tried to use the IE Web Developer Toolbar to examine the content area,
 but I cannot select the whitespace, so I don't know which element(s)
 may be generating it.  Any ideas or help would be appreciated.

 Thanks for reading.

 --Stephen



You need to remove padding/margin from the form itself:

form {
margin:0;
padding:0;
}

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Re: [css-d] IE8 hack?

2008-03-10 Thread Bruno Fassino
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Nancy E. Sosna Bohm wrote:
 Yes, I know, in a perfect site there's no need for hacks.

  But this is a just slightly less-than perfectly coded site I did a year ago,
  and it breaks in IE8.

I don't think it is a a good idea to hack now for IE8, which is just a beta.
Anyway, in addition to conditional comments (which will probably be
applied by the final version as well), you can now try this:
/*/ selector { ... } /**/
to feed rules only to  IE8 beta 1 and (apparently) no other browsers.
This will very probably change in newer beta releases.
But I don't think is good idea to use that. More interesting would be
to try to understand why IE8 is 'breaking' the page.

Bruno

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[css-d] IE 6 and fixed width for select element

2008-03-10 Thread Mauricio (Maujor) Samy Silva
Hi,
When we open a fixed width select control in a compliant browser it 
expands the width of the open window in order to show the option
content larger than that fixed width.
IE 6 (don't know about IE 7) doesn't expands and crops the option
content larger than the width.
Is there a CSS way (no javascript solutions) to make IE 6 behave like
Firefox for instance?
Thanks

Mauricio Samy Silva
http://www.maujor.com

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Re: [css-d] background image shifts next to heading??

2008-03-10 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Rob freeman wrote:
 I'm sure its to do with the headings at 110% how can I make sure the 
 arrow icon always sits centred vertically next to the headings?

 http://www.coloursense.net/testfolder/

Don't know why you get variations between two setups of Firefox -
different screen-resolutions maybe.
However, position of background with pixel-values next to text, depends
on frozen font-size, line-height and other setup-alterable variables,
and none of these variables can be controlled or guaranteed across
browser-land and setups. The vertical line-up is for instance easily
disturbed by introducing even the slightest font-resizing.

Somewhat improved control can be achieved by playing along with the
unknown variables, and leave to the browsers to calculate line-ups. They
are usually quite good at it when fed balanced and tested styles.

One way to do it in your case, is to...

1: even out the top and bottom padding, and get back the
position/line-up by adding a margin-top:

#content h1 {
padding: 3px 0;
margin-top: 7px;
}

2: you now have two options.

2 a: make the background center vertically no matter what - even if the
headline-text breaks into 2 lines:

#content h1 {
background-position: 0 50%;
}

Note: the vertical centering is in the headline itself, so if the text
breaks into two lines the background will center vertically between
those lines. Background-image is positioned by its vertical center with
the given value.

2 b: make the background center vertically with the text-line - also if
the headline-text breaks into 2 lines:

#content h1 {
background-position: 0 .5em;
}

Note: exact em-value depends on case and size of background-image.
Since the background doesn't change size with font-resizing, some slight
misalignment will take place if the font-resizing is made large enough,
because the background-image is positioned by its top edge and not its
vertical center.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] IE8 hack?

2008-03-10 Thread Rajat Pandit
To second what bruno said, its worth investigating if its an IE bug or
failure to meet the 2.1specs or something wrong with your css and if the
problem is on IE side make sure that it gets reported via some channel.
its far to early to make an effort to start fixing things
- Rajat

Bruno Fassino wrote:
 On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Nancy E. Sosna Bohm wrote:
 Yes, I know, in a perfect site there's no need for hacks.

  But this is a just slightly less-than perfectly coded site I did a year ago,
  and it breaks in IE8.
 
 I don't think it is a a good idea to hack now for IE8, which is just a beta.
 Anyway, in addition to conditional comments (which will probably be
 applied by the final version as well), you can now try this:
 /*/ selector { ... } /**/
 to feed rules only to  IE8 beta 1 and (apparently) no other browsers.
 This will very probably change in newer beta releases.
 But I don't think is good idea to use that. More interesting would be
 to try to understand why IE8 is 'breaking' the page.
 
 Bruno
 
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Re: [css-d] IE8 hack?

2008-03-10 Thread Alan Gresley
Nancy E. Sosna Bohm wrote:

 Yes, I know, in a perfect site there's no need for hacks.
 
 But this is a just slightly less-than perfectly coded site I did a year ago,
 and it breaks in IE8.
 I can fix most of it, but some widths in IE8 don't match up with widths in
 FireFox, and IE8 ignores !ie.
 So, does this mean conditional comments for IE8, or does anyone have an easy
 hack up your sleeve?
 Sorry if this has already been addressed; I haven't received my CSS-D Digest
 in a couple of days.
 
 Thanks in advance,
 Nancy Sosna


Hi Nancy, do you have a URL handy?

Yes there are CSS selector hacks available for IE8 but hacking is not the best 
option yet when the issue is not understood. The display table properties bugs 
that IE8 has can not necessary be hacked around for a fix. There is different 
behavior for block elements around floats and what may be a margin bug maybe a 
mysterious space bug or could be some padding elsewhere. It could even be that 
IE8 is showing correct rendering. Seeing live code would help us analyze any 
bugs and through such analyzes these bugs can be reported to the IE development 
team.

Adding CC for something that maybe resolved in a later beta is unwise.


Alan

http://css-class.com/

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[css-d] New CSS/html tools?..

2008-03-10 Thread Karl Jacobs
Howdy,

I'm really ready to dump BBedit, and am wondering if anyone has a  
good html/css editor with autocomplete like many of the current  
tools, but also has the built-in ftp capabilities of BBedit?   I am  
seeing a lot of tools with one or two good features, but nothing  
outstanding.  Basically, wondering what people are using.  (I'll take  
nay responses offline).

thanks

-- Kar

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Supervisor - Web Communications
The Aerospace Corporation
310.336.7345

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[css-d] IE6 z-index position element stacking problem

2008-03-10 Thread Sandy
or so i think.

http://accuray.com/

my flash menu is in an absolutely position div.  in ie6 ONLY, when you 
roll over products or patients, the menu is cut off at the bottom of 
the drop down.
I tried fooling around with the other positioned elements or removing 
them altogether but it doesn't seem to help.
Also, this issue occurs SOMETIMES.. rolling over it or refreshing the 
page will eventually trigger the bug.
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[css-d] css validation error

2008-03-10 Thread Sr. Flo Fluse
Hello all,

I'm at validating the css stylesheet and there are two strange error 
messages which i can't get rid of.


1)the first one is:
/Parse Error - body, div, dl, dt, dd, ul, ol, li, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, 
h6, pre, form, fieldset, input, p, blockquote, th, td { margin:0; 
padding:0; }

/This line is in the very beginning of the document for normalization 
purposes.
I rewrote the line and checked it in a new css stylesheet with the 
validator and it validated fine. But when i copied it into the sites' 
stylesheet it provoked an error again.
What am i doing wrong?


2)the second one is:
/div#site-info p a  Lexical error at line 1121, column 0. 
Encountered: EOF after : /

Here again i can't find the error. the code is written well, as i see it.
It's this line:
*div#site-info p a { text-decoration: none; } *

i moved the line into another section of the stylesheet and the error 
at line 1121 changed with it (error at line 1562), so i guess it 
wasn't an element before  or after the line which caused the  error 
message.
What am i missing?


My sites' link is:
http://www.dcc-artivisme.net/wordpress_dcc/?langswitch_lang=en

the direct link to the css file is:
http://www.dcc-artivisme.net/wordpress_dcc/wp-content/themes/dcc/style.css


Thanks very much for the help
flo

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[css-d] IE8 bazaar rendering of display table properties

2008-03-10 Thread Alan Gresley
Hi Everyone.


I have started developing some test cases concerning issues with IE8 support of 
display table properties. I am totally mystified by what I am seeing. I am 
adding extra cases to understand what is happening. Any input, suggestions or 
other examples would be very welcome.

The test cases were simple in the beginning but they are involving by the hour. 
The initial test case (display:table) is the most recently updated.

http://css-class.com/test/css/table/table-property1.htm


Gecko and Safari shows the same. The grid blocks are there just there to clear 
each example since IE8 is creating phantom overlaps. There are two other linked 
test cases for display:table each with there own unusual rendering by IE8.

I also have a series of test cases for display:table-cell which are very 
different to how display:table is rendering.

http://css-class.com/test/css/table/table-cell-property1.htm


The most amazing examples are some of the last ones on this page.

http://css-class.com/test/css/table/table-cell-property3.htm


Why does a percentage (50%) width on a table cell within a float cause the 
float itself to expand in size to 50% of the width of the viewpoint? Quite 
remarkable.


Alan

http://css-class.com/

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Re: [css-d] New CSS/html tools?..

2008-03-10 Thread Michael Stevens
WeBuilder from Bluementals
http://www.blumentals.net/webuilder/

They have several different flavors with each supporting more flavors of
code. WeBuilder is their top of the line and supports php coding.

I've been using HomeSite forever and hoping someone would come along with a
piece of software that was worth something. This is the first one I've seen
that can hold a candle to HomeSite. Along with handling php and javascript
files it also does a good job of handling CSS files. Top Style is still
better for CSS but it's not too often I need the reference files in Top
Style.

Mike 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Karl Jacobs

Howdy,

I'm really ready to dump BBedit, and am wondering if anyone has a good
html/css editor with autocomplete like many of the current  
tools, but also has the built-in ftp capabilities of BBedit?   I am  
seeing a lot of tools with one or two good features, but nothing
outstanding.  Basically, wondering what people are using.  (I'll take nay
responses offline).

thanks

-- Kar

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Re: [css-d] New CSS/html tools?..

2008-03-10 Thread Kathy Wheeler

On 11/03/2008, at 12:34 PM, Michael Stevens wrote:
 WeBuilder from Bluementals
 http://www.blumentals.net/webuilder/

WeBuilder is windows only.

 -Original Message-
 Karl Jacobs

 I'm really ready to dump BBedit, ...

BBedit is Mac only.

Unless Kar is dumping the Mac as well, WeBuilder will be of no use.

Pity, otherwise it looks interesting and I'm always on the lookout  
for better OS X editors with current doctype, CSS, javascript, DHTML  
(and optionally PHP) support myself.

Cheers,
KathyW.
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Re: [css-d] Diff between display:none and visibility:hidden

2008-03-10 Thread Rafael
Jeff Gates wrote:
 I know that one difference between display:none and visibility:hidden is 
 that the former does not leave space in the layout where the code exists 
 on the page, while the latter does. Are there other differences?

 Using visibility:hidden I have hidden a whole string of links I need on
 the page to use Lightbox 2's slideshow feature. It works as it should.  
 But there is white space in the layout where the long list of links
 appears in the code. If I use display:none instead, will Lightbox still
 see this string of links? I'd like to eliminate the white space in the
 layout.

 In other words, is the only difference between the display and visibility 
 properties that one leaves space in layout and the other doesn't?

 Thanks, Jeff
   
I remember having read somewhere that the W3C /recommended/ browser 
vendors /not to download the content styled with display:none/. 
Unfortunately, I haven't found any reference to this, so I could be just 
plain wrong.

Now, assuming I did read it right and it was even in the W3C 
recommendation (which doesn't seem to be the case), real-world sites 
won't allow browser vendors to implement this behavior because many of 
us rely on display:none being invisible /and/ without any box in the 
layout, so just for the sake of practical use alone I don't think 
they'll ever do it ---but that again, that's assuming the first 
paragraph is right :)

Conclusion: yes, since those elements do exist in the DOM Lightbox 
can access them, now whether it moves them, clone them, remove them, 
etc. depends solely on the Lightbox implementation (i.e. I have no clue).

I hope this helps.
Rafael.
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Re: [css-d] New CSS/html tools?..

2008-03-10 Thread Karl Hardisty
On 11/03/2008, at 3:38 PM, Kathy Wheeler wrote:

On 11/03/2008, at 12:34 PM, Michael Stevens wrote:
 WeBuilder from Bluementals
 http://www.blumentals.net/webuilder/

WeBuilder is windows only.

 -Original Message-
 Karl Jacobs

 I'm really ready to dump BBedit, ...

BBedit is Mac only.

Unless Kar is dumping the Mac as well, WeBuilder will be of no use.

Pity, otherwise it looks interesting and I'm always on the lookout
for better OS X editors with current doctype, CSS, javascript, DHTML
(and optionally PHP) support myself.

Cheers,
KathyW.
__

As Karl suggested, I replied off list, and I recommended he take a  
look at Coda.  I'm taking a look myself (again) and hope it has moved  
on from infancy to perhaps a petulant teen, with the maturity that  
comes with age.  It is one of the few apps that does everything he  
requested.

One aspect to keep in mind is BBEdit has been around a very long  
time, and has the features and completeness that goes with this age.

Karl

mothership - http://mothership.co.nz
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Re: [css-d] background image shifts next to heading??

2008-03-10 Thread Rafael
Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
 2 b: make the background center vertically with the text-line - also if
 the headline-text breaks into 2 lines:

 #content h1 {
 background-position: 0 .5em;
 }

 Note: exact em-value depends on case and size of background-image.
 Since the background doesn't change size with font-resizing, some slight
 misalignment will take place if the font-resizing is made large enough,
 because the background-image is positioned by its top edge and not its
 vertical center.
   
I'd just like to point out that the use of line-height could affect 
the positioning. It would be good to set line-height and position the 
image at half that value. E.g.
  line-height: 1em; /* Whatever value that's OK with you */
  background-position: 0 0.5em; /* Half the value above */
Remember the order doesn't really matter, as long as they're in the same 
rule set.

Rafael.
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Re: [css-d] css validation error

2008-03-10 Thread Rob Emenecker
 I'm at validating the css stylesheet and there are two strange 
 error messages which i can't get rid of.

What are you using to edit your CSS file? The file appears to have
non-printing characters that do not appear to be standard CR, LF, or CR/LF
line endings.

What if you copy/paste your CSS into a new blank text document using NotePad
or TextPad, and then post it?

...Rob

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Re: [css-d] Diff between display:none and visibility:hidden

2008-03-10 Thread vincent pollard
i hear display:none is bad for accessibility (screen readers, e.g.) but i
have no idea if visibility is any better. anyone know?

On 10/03/2008, Rafael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Jeff Gates wrote:
  I know that one difference between display:none and visibility:hidden is
  that the former does not leave space in the layout where the code exists
  on the page, while the latter does. Are there other differences?
 
  Using visibility:hidden I have hidden a whole string of links I need on
  the page to use Lightbox 2's slideshow feature. It works as it should.
  But there is white space in the layout where the long list of links
  appears in the code. If I use display:none instead, will Lightbox still
  see this string of links? I'd like to eliminate the white space in the
  layout.
 
  In other words, is the only difference between the display and
 visibility
  properties that one leaves space in layout and the other doesn't?
 
  Thanks, Jeff
 

 I remember having read somewhere that the W3C /recommended/ browser
 vendors /not to download the content styled with display:none/.
 Unfortunately, I haven't found any reference to this, so I could be just
 plain wrong.

 Now, assuming I did read it right and it was even in the W3C
 recommendation (which doesn't seem to be the case), real-world sites
 won't allow browser vendors to implement this behavior because many of
 us rely on display:none being invisible /and/ without any box in the
 layout, so just for the sake of practical use alone I don't think
 they'll ever do it ---but that again, that's assuming the first
 paragraph is right :)

 Conclusion: yes, since those elements do exist in the DOM Lightbox
 can access them, now whether it moves them, clone them, remove them,
 etc. depends solely on the Lightbox implementation (i.e. I have no clue).

 I hope this helps.

 Rafael.

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-- 
Vincent Pollard
http://www.ithinkx.co.uk
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Re: [css-d] css validation error

2008-03-10 Thread David Laakso
Sr. Flo Fluse wrote:
 I'm at validating the css stylesheet and there are two strange error 
 messages which i can't get rid of.


 flo

   

 Wow! Uncompressing the file before posting to the list would be a nice 
touch on your part...

I think if you delete the entire comment preceding the body declaration, 
and close the color comment (the last ruleset at the very bottom of the 
file), you'll be good to go.

Providing this link is not totally mangled in transmission, you'll find 
your valid (uncommented) CSS here:

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chelseacreekstudio.com%2Fca%2Fcssd%2Funamed.csswarning=1profile=css21usermedium=all

Best,
~dL

-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Lines clipping in Explorer, and width issue [SOLVED]

2008-03-10 Thread Dave M G
Gunlaug,

Thank you for responding.

Removing the position: relative; declaration from my #article DIV made 
the bottom border lines appear as they should.

Adding the .class to the last item in the list does solve the problem of 
the width of the main menu. Unfortunately, the menu is generated from 
within a CMS, and I can't quite get that solution to be compatible with 
the PHP code that drives the HTML.

However, even though I have to find another way to skin that cat, I can 
at least now see where to focus my efforts.

Thank you for your help and taking the time to show me what to do by 
adjusting my code.

-- 
Dave M G
Articlass - open source CMS
http://articlass.org

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Re: [css-d] Lines clipping in Explorer, and width issue [SOLVED]

2008-03-10 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Dave M G wrote:

 Adding the .class to the last item in the list does solve the problem
 of the width of the main menu. Unfortunately, the menu is generated
 from within a CMS, and I can't quite get that solution to be
 compatible with the PHP code that drives the HTML.
 
 However, even though I have to find another way to skin that cat, I
 can at least now see where to focus my efforts.

Try this modification:

#main-menu li {
width: 34%;
margin-left: -1%;
position: relative;
left: 1%;
}

It will solve the problem without an extra class, by moving each
list-item to the left so they don't fill up the space in #menu ul - and
therefore can't drop, and then offset them back again so they appear to
be in the correct places.

IE/win's percentages-to-pixels calculation flaws will make it look less
than perfect at certain window-widths - especially in IE6, but a
background-color on #menu ul will mask that most of the time.
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] New CSS/html tools?..

2008-03-10 Thread Michael Stevens
Aren't Mac people always bragging about how their machines can run Windows
better than a PC can? Shouldn't be a problem then... :)

Mike

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy Wheeler
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 7:39 PM
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] New CSS/html tools?..

On 11/03/2008, at 12:34 PM, Michael Stevens wrote:
 WeBuilder from Bluementals
 http://www.blumentals.net/webuilder/

WeBuilder is windows only.

 -Original Message-
 Karl Jacobs

 I'm really ready to dump BBedit, ...

BBedit is Mac only.

Unless Kar is dumping the Mac as well, WeBuilder will be of no use.

Pity, otherwise it looks interesting and I'm always on the lookout for
better OS X editors with current doctype, CSS, javascript, DHTML (and
optionally PHP) support myself.

Cheers,
KathyW.

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