Re: [css-d] CSS Shapes

2014-09-04 Thread Tom Livingston
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Philippe Wittenbergh  wrote:

>
> Le 4 sept. 2014 à 21:32, Tom Livingston  a écrit :
>
> > No doubt this will be something I'm asked to do in a page layout soon. I
> > was just watching this demo of a new Chrome extension:
> >
> > http://razvancaliman.com/writing/css-shapes-editor-chrome/
> >
> > A very handy thing indeed, but... my first thought when seeing the coffee
> > cup layout on that page is how do you provide a fallback for that?
>
> Perhaps this:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/webplatform/2014/05/12/css-shapes-polyfill/
>
> Also this gallery by the folks who implemented it in WebKit/Bink/Firefox:
> http://blogs.adobe.com/webplatform/2014/05/13/good-looking-shapes-gallery/
>
> Philippe
> --
> Philippe Wittenbergh
> http://l-c-n.com/



Thanks Philippe.

I was hoping it wouldn't be another polyfill. I use picturefill.js (and
subsequently matchmedia.js), as I feel it's use is ultimately for the
greater good, but I'm not a fan of polyfills. If I can avoid adding any
weight, then all the better. I don't use modernizr in every project either
- though it's very handy - but shapes seem like a tough thing to do a
fallback for without it. A fallback for shapes looks like a bit of work, as
opposed to the fallback for rem units, for example.

Seems like using modernizr to help you swap images with something that
allows legible text to run over it would be simplest. Next would be layout
changes, moving the images to another place on the page so the text doesn't
crash into it. Obviously it depends on each situation...


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Re: [css-d] CSS Shapes

2014-09-04 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

Le 4 sept. 2014 à 21:32, Tom Livingston  a écrit :

> No doubt this will be something I'm asked to do in a page layout soon. I
> was just watching this demo of a new Chrome extension:
> 
> http://razvancaliman.com/writing/css-shapes-editor-chrome/
> 
> A very handy thing indeed, but... my first thought when seeing the coffee
> cup layout on that page is how do you provide a fallback for that?

Perhaps this:
http://blogs.adobe.com/webplatform/2014/05/12/css-shapes-polyfill/

Also this gallery by the folks who implemented it in WebKit/Bink/Firefox:
http://blogs.adobe.com/webplatform/2014/05/13/good-looking-shapes-gallery/

Philippe
--
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http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] CSS Shapes

2014-09-04 Thread Tom Livingston
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Tom Livingston  wrote:

> Good morning fellow listers,
>
> CSS Shapes.
>
> No doubt this will be something I'm asked to do in a page layout soon. I
> was just watching this demo of a new Chrome extension:
>
> http://razvancaliman.com/writing/css-shapes-editor-chrome/
>
> A very handy thing indeed, but... my first thought when seeing the coffee
> cup layout on that page is how do you provide a fallback for that?
>
> Anyone?
>
> --
>
>
I'll add that it seems like a significant layout change or at least swap
images for ones that allow text to run over them and still allow for
legibility.
I also see modernizr being used as well. Anything else?


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[css-d] CSS Shapes

2014-09-04 Thread Tom Livingston
Good morning fellow listers,

CSS Shapes.

No doubt this will be something I'm asked to do in a page layout soon. I
was just watching this demo of a new Chrome extension:

http://razvancaliman.com/writing/css-shapes-editor-chrome/

A very handy thing indeed, but... my first thought when seeing the coffee
cup layout on that page is how do you provide a fallback for that?

Anyone?

-- 

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ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-17 Thread Micky Hulse
Gabriele Romanato wrote:
> a little tribute to Tantek and Mark Schenk. enjoy!

Fun! Hehe. I like it.

Maybe for your next version you could add some colors?

These links may help inspire you to create more:




(
About tanfa: a site by SuzyUK. She is admin for the CSS forums found here:

)

I really enjoy out-of-the-box thinking. Keep up the good work. Cheers!
:D

Micky


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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-15 Thread Ian Young
> Sent: 15 October 2006 18:33
> To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
> Subject: Re: [css-d] CSS shapes
>
>
>
> "Css-discuss covers all stages, from beginner to advanced."
> Let it be so.
>
>

Georg

Very eloquent as ever.

Whilst we should be as tolerant as we can be on all matters CSS, I am
uncomfortable with those who are using the forum to further their own
agendas or who are negative in their responses.

I would hope if I were to infringe the above that someone would, politely,
point out the error of my ways.

Ian
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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-15 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Gabriele Romanato wrote:

> thank you very much Georg. . but Christian has his reasons that 
> cannot be ignored. I'll have to take an extra care when I post my 
> tests.

FWIW: I wasn't trying to be helpful in this particular case, but I don't
like _unnecessary_ restrictions on what can be done and put on display -
even on css-d.

Christian may have good reasons - which I won't dispute, and is using
the lists guidelines to back them up. However, that isn't enough to
exclude such explorations of regular HTML/CSS in an attempt "to explain
[to UAs] what content is and how it should be rendered".
We need to know if they (the UAs) understand simple and plain HTML/CSS,
and we should - in my opinion - be allowed to present the results of our
investigations, even if they are crude. That's especially true when they
actually work.

(X)HTML and CSS, and all additions and alternatives, are developed
further as I write this. Most of what we did yesterday is "useless"
today, and most of what we do today may be seen as "useless" tomorrow.

However, some (if not all) of the less than optimal stuff we come up
with today, may end up being reworked and refined and become part of
tomorrow's standards - and those standards may even be supported by UAs
one day. We talk about 'progress' when it works better than what we had
before, and 'regress' when it doesn't. There's plenty of both around.

Regardless of that: we use what we have, and can master, in real world
web design today, and we should allow ourselves to do so, and to
explore, while we are developing our skills further and can, each on our
own, separate the good from the bad and the obsolete.

"Css-discuss covers all stages, from beginner to advanced."
Let it be so.

regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-15 Thread Gabriele Romanato
2006/10/15, Gunlaug Sørtun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Gabriele Romanato wrote:
>
> >>> http://www.css-zibaldone.com/the-css-switch-project
> /november-2006/shapes/
>
> > Experiments are not useful strictu sensu. that's the basic difference. I
> > can't ignore this difference.
> > your criticism is very similar to literary criticism: would be this poem
> > "useful"? utilitarism, I suppose.
> > or marxian criticism: everything should be "useful" to the underlyining
> > structure of society. otherwise, is useless. on the web, every single
> layout
> > should be "useful". that's the underlyning pragmatism of the WWW. sorry,
> > this is not my point of view.
>
>
> Not mine either :-)
>
> All tests and experiments that one can derive something useful from -
> now or later - are, by definition, _useful_.
> This is true even if the useful part ends up being knowledge about
> something's lack of usefulness or other shortcomings, so replicating old
> and "useless" experiments is a useful timesaver on our way to mastering
> web design - being it HTML/CSS based or a mix of whatever.
>
> It is a fact that many progressive and/or corrective ideas in real world
> web design are the result of "useless" experiments - often combined with
> even more "useless" experiments.
>
> Example: I'd call the following experiment completely useless...
> 
> ...yet I use the methods on display there to get browsers in line - all
> the time. That experiment also gave me plenty of ideas about when *not*
> to use those methods, which is a most welcome side-effect.
>
> Another "useless" example:
> 
> ...which parts certainly can be put to good use.
>
> So, I rather see more "useless" tests than fewer on display. They are
> useful to someone.
>
> regards
> Georg
> --
> http://www.gunlaug.no



thank you very much Georg. . but Christian has his reasons that cannot be
ignored. I'll have to take an extra care when I post my
tests. excuse me again. :)




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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-15 Thread Gabriele Romanato
2006/10/15, Erik van Dyck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Hi Gabriele,
>
>
>
> I fully endorse your view. Usefulness can be value in many cases, in art
> and games and in many other situations it isn't. It's not needed either.
> Happily Leonardo and Michelangelo and Dante had a larger view on life than
> just usefulness.
>
>
>
> Erik
>
>
>
> >
> http://www.css-zibaldone.com/the-css-switch-project/november-2006/shapes/
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> a little tribute to Tantek and Mark Schenk. enjoy!
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> ps. I've not specified the exact versions of the various browsers.
>
> > all
>
> > > >> apologies. the latest versions, of course. otherwise, as specified.
>
> > > >>
>
> >
>
> > Christian wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > > This keeps cropping up as an amazing new CSS discovery. Can anyone
>
> > > > think of a situation where this would be useful? It is like using a
>
> > > > lot of HTML, background colours and spacer GIFs to paint an image.
>
> >
>
> > This is NOT a discovery. This is only a test. I don't pretend to have
> made
>
> > a new discovery.
>
>
>
> Experiments are not useful strictu sensu. that's the basic difference. I
>
> can't ignore this difference.
>
> your criticism is very similar to literary criticism: would be this poem
>
> "useful"? utilitarism, I suppose.
>
> or marxian criticism: everything should be "useful" to the underlyining
>
> structure of society. otherwise, is useless. on the web, every single
> layout
>
> should be "useful". that's the underlyning pragmatism of the WWW. sorry,
>
> this is not my point of view. regards,
>
>
>
> Gabriele
>
>
>
>  thank you so much for the endorsement. as I said before,
>

ars gratia artis. bye ;-)

Gabriele


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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-15 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Gabriele Romanato wrote:

>>> http://www.css-zibaldone.com/the-css-switch-project/november-2006/shapes/

> Experiments are not useful strictu sensu. that's the basic difference. I
> can't ignore this difference.
> your criticism is very similar to literary criticism: would be this poem
> "useful"? utilitarism, I suppose.
> or marxian criticism: everything should be "useful" to the underlyining
> structure of society. otherwise, is useless. on the web, every single layout
> should be "useful". that's the underlyning pragmatism of the WWW. sorry,
> this is not my point of view.


Not mine either :-)

All tests and experiments that one can derive something useful from -
now or later - are, by definition, _useful_.
This is true even if the useful part ends up being knowledge about
something's lack of usefulness or other shortcomings, so replicating old
and "useless" experiments is a useful timesaver on our way to mastering
web design - being it HTML/CSS based or a mix of whatever.

It is a fact that many progressive and/or corrective ideas in real world
web design are the result of "useless" experiments - often combined with
even more "useless" experiments.

Example: I'd call the following experiment completely useless...

...yet I use the methods on display there to get browsers in line - all
the time. That experiment also gave me plenty of ideas about when *not*
to use those methods, which is a most welcome side-effect.

Another "useless" example:

...which parts certainly can be put to good use.

So, I rather see more "useless" tests than fewer on display. They are
useful to someone.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-15 Thread Christian Heilmann
> > > > This keeps cropping up as an amazing new CSS discovery. Can anyone
> > > > think of a situation where this would be useful? It is like using a
> > > > lot of HTML, background colours and spacer GIFs to paint an image.
> >
> > This is NOT a discovery. This is only a test. I don't pretend to have made
> > a new discovery.
>
> Experiments are not useful strictu sensu. that's the basic difference. I
> can't ignore this difference.
> your criticism is very similar to literary criticism: would be this poem
> "useful"? utilitarism, I suppose.
> or marxian criticism: everything should be "useful" to the underlyining
> structure of society. otherwise, is useless. on the web, every single layout
> should be "useful". that's the underlyning pragmatism of the WWW. sorry,
> this is not my point of view. regards,

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=PostingGuidelines :

Css-discuss is primarily intended to be a place for authors to discuss
real-world uses of CSS. This doesn't preclude discussions of theory,
or nifty cutting-edge tricks that show off the power of CSS, or even
talking about (X)HTML, DOM, and so forth. However, it's greatly
appreciated if such discussions have some practical payoff, even if
it's just teaching other list members a little bit more about how CSS
works. Css-discuss covers all stages, from beginner to advanced.

CSS slant tricks show new CSS developers that you need a lot of
unneccessary HTML to create a design that is a lot easier done with an
image/canvas/SVG. HTML is not a poem and CSS is not paint. Both are
instructions for a user agent to explain what content is and how it
should be rendered.

I can make car bumpers out of cheese cubes, but I wouldn't start a
business on it.
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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-15 Thread Erik van Dyck
Hi Gabriele,

 

I fully endorse your view. Usefulness can be value in many cases, in art and
games and in many other situations it isn't. It's not needed either. Happily
Leonardo and Michelangelo and Dante had a larger view on life than just
usefulness.

 

Erik

 

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Gabriele Romanato
Verzonden: dimanche 15 octobre 2006 09:55
Aan: Gene Falck
CC: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Onderwerp: Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

 

2006/10/15, Gene Falck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> 

> Hi David, Christian, and Gabriele,

> 

> Gabriele wrote:

> 

> > >>

> http://www.css-zibaldone.com/the-css-switch-project/november-2006/shapes/

> > >>

> > >> a little tribute to Tantek and Mark Schenk. enjoy!

> > >>

> > >> ps. I've not specified the exact versions of the various browsers.

> all

> > >> apologies. the latest versions, of course. otherwise, as specified.

> > >>

> 

> Christian wrote:

> 

> > > This keeps cropping up as an amazing new CSS discovery. Can anyone

> > > think of a situation where this would be useful? It is like using a

> > > lot of HTML, background colours and spacer GIFs to paint an image.

> 

> This is NOT a discovery. This is only a test. I don't pretend to have made

> a new discovery.

 

Experiments are not useful strictu sensu. that's the basic difference. I

can't ignore this difference.

your criticism is very similar to literary criticism: would be this poem

"useful"? utilitarism, I suppose.

or marxian criticism: everything should be "useful" to the underlyining

structure of society. otherwise, is useless. on the web, every single layout

should be "useful". that's the underlyning pragmatism of the WWW. sorry,

this is not my point of view. regards,

 

Gabriele

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-15 Thread Gabriele Romanato
2006/10/15, Gene Falck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> Hi David, Christian, and Gabriele,
>
> Gabriele wrote:
>
> > >>
> http://www.css-zibaldone.com/the-css-switch-project/november-2006/shapes/
> > >>
> > >> a little tribute to Tantek and Mark Schenk. enjoy!
> > >>
> > >> ps. I've not specified the exact versions of the various browsers.
> all
> > >> apologies. the latest versions, of course. otherwise, as specified.
> > >>
>
> Christian wrote:
>
> > > This keeps cropping up as an amazing new CSS discovery. Can anyone
> > > think of a situation where this would be useful? It is like using a
> > > lot of HTML, background colours and spacer GIFs to paint an image.
>
> This is NOT a discovery. This is only a test. I don't pretend to have made
> a new discovery.

Experiments are not useful strictu sensu. that's the basic difference. I
can't ignore this difference.
your criticism is very similar to literary criticism: would be this poem
"useful"? utilitarism, I suppose.
or marxian criticism: everything should be "useful" to the underlyining
structure of society. otherwise, is useless. on the web, every single layout
should be "useful". that's the underlyning pragmatism of the WWW. sorry,
this is not my point of view. regards,

Gabriele





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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-14 Thread Gene Falck
Hi David, Christian, and Gabriele,

Gabriele wrote:

> >> http://www.css-zibaldone.com/the-css-switch-project/november-2006/shapes/
> >>
> >> a little tribute to Tantek and Mark Schenk. enjoy!
> >>
> >> ps. I've not specified the exact versions of the various browsers. all
> >> apologies. the latest versions, of course. otherwise, as specified.
> >>

Christian wrote:

> > This keeps cropping up as an amazing new CSS discovery. Can anyone
> > think of a situation where this would be useful? It is like using a
> > lot of HTML, background colours and spacer GIFs to paint an image.

David wrote:

>If you gotta ask, you'll never kow :-D .
>I forgot who said that.

LOL! I have been looking for a better way to
handle a problem at work. We have a number of
product specification sheets usually written
in MS Word--the problem is that many of them
have what the boss considers important items
highlighted which works fine in the various
Word versions in use (including some very old
ones on hand-me-down computers) except for a
document highlighted in violet. When printed
out this is nearly illegible what with the
dark shade of purple used in the limited color
menu for highlighting. I tried some other ways
to put a color behind text but all were poor
in some way; currently the document is in use
highlighted in pink.

I then (yesterday) started, stealing a moment
at a time, to try to work out something in
HTML and CSS (Back on topic!) but it is slow
going. I keep tripping over the defaults for
handling printing text and backgrounds; it is
possible one of the "useful?" methods will
offer me something. Putting a bottom border
on the line above and using relative position
to drop it down under the following line
has some promise but I can't just type a line
in white text on the white background as it
shows up in the printed result.

Since this is strictly for a local file and
we use IE6 at work, I only need it to work
one document at a time in IE6 only. I have
reservations about trying to get someone who
is not too web-oriented to change the default
settings to print a few copies of a document
and then set them back.

Perhaps there are some other uses!

-- 

Regards,

Gene Falck
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-14 Thread ~davidLaakso
Christian Heilmann wrote:
>> http://www.css-zibaldone.com/the-css-switch-project/november-2006/shapes/
>>
>> a little tribute to Tantek and Mark Schenk. enjoy!
>>
>> ps. I've not specified the exact versions of the various browsers. all
>> apologies. the latest versions, of course. otherwise, as specified.
>> 
>
> This keeps cropping up as an amazing new CSS discovery. Can anyone
> think of a situation where this would be useful? It is like using a
> lot of HTML, background colours and spacer GIFs to paint an image.
>
>   
If you gotta ask, you'll never kow :-D .
I forgot who said that.
~dL




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Re: [css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-14 Thread Christian Heilmann
> http://www.css-zibaldone.com/the-css-switch-project/november-2006/shapes/
>
> a little tribute to Tantek and Mark Schenk. enjoy!
>
> ps. I've not specified the exact versions of the various browsers. all
> apologies. the latest versions, of course. otherwise, as specified.

This keeps cropping up as an amazing new CSS discovery. Can anyone
think of a situation where this would be useful? It is like using a
lot of HTML, background colours and spacer GIFs to paint an image.

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[css-d] CSS shapes

2006-10-14 Thread Gabriele Romanato
http://www.css-zibaldone.com/the-css-switch-project/november-2006/shapes/

a little tribute to Tantek and Mark Schenk. enjoy!

ps. I've not specified the exact versions of the various browsers. all
apologies. the latest versions, of course. otherwise, as specified.

Gabriele Romanato

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