Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John Griessen]

On 01/04/2016 03:33 PM, chuckmil...@new.rr.com wrote:

Do those resources have to be found? Should that be discussed?


There are two volunteers, me and D'Arcy J.M. Cain.  He can offer higher 
reliability.
Neither is interested in spamming.  So, there's not much to discuss about that.

CSS questions coming up from me in a few weeks...
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Theophan Dort]

I haven’t posted on this because I’m not a “real” web developer, just a 
volunteer webmaster for my church, and wasn’t sure whether my 2¢ would be of 
any interest or relevance, but for what it’s worth, this list has been a really 
wonderfully helpful resource for me several times, over the years.  I’ve asked 
questions, and knowledgeable people swiftly and helpfully answered them.  My 
experience with online forums has been less helpful.

Whatever happens to this list, I’d like to say that I am very grateful to its 
founder/admin (I bought your book on CSS many years ago, I think I actually 
bought both the first and second editions), and to those on this list who have 
been generous with their knowledge and expertise, and have helped this 
interested amateur several times, over the years.  I hope it keeps going, but 
all things eventually come to an end, and I retired from my former profession a 
number of years ago, and will surely understand if this list’s Admin is ready 
to let his participation in this go.  I’m delighted to see some other people 
offering to take it on, and I hope one way or another that it continues.

Thanks again to everyone.

Theophan


> On Jan 4, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Cheryl D Wise  wrote:
> 
> FWIW, I rarely post since I'm mostly retired now but I do read what's
> posted. I wouldn't do so with a forum. 
> 
> Cheryl D Wise
> http://wiserways.com
> http://by-expression.com
> http://cheryldwise.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: On Behalf Of John Griessen
> 
> Do you think it is best that list members switch to forums like this one?
> https://csscreator.com/forums/start-here/how  with ads for mail order brides
> in the margins?
> 
> What others are there that are good?
> 
> 
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[GJim]

~~~
Monday, January 4, 2016, 10:30:10 AM (USA 'Somewhere on-the-road time-zone'),
you wrote the message that appears below.

My reply appears here and/or interspersed within your message.
~~~

> I like the mailing list format rather than forums

I much prefer the mailing list rather than forums.  With a mailing list, I can
keep an archive on my own system.

I do hope the CSS list is kept.  I don't post often, but I do read every post
and respond if I have pertinent information.

G'Jim c):{-
--
Custom book-boxes: http://www.wyomerc.com/bookboxes/bookboxes.html
Book repairs: http://www.wyomerc.com/bookrepair/bookrepairs.html
My photography: http://www.gjim.com

Savvy ponderable:
Most folks are just about as happy as they've made up their mind to be.

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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Kathy Wheeler]

I'd have to put my vote with the mailing list not a forum. 

Every group I've been with that has moved to forums or FaceBook I've just lost 
interest in. There are very few forums I even bother to go to for help. Forums 
can be awkward to search and FaceBook is almost impossible. With mailing lists 
I can keep messages that interest me and easily search my email archive. With 
forums and FB I have to make a conscious effort to go there ... my mailing 
lists come to me.

KathyW.
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John Griessen]

On 01/04/2016 10:30 AM, D'Arcy J.M. Cain wrote:

How does everyone like that option?


OK if no ads inserted, no selling of my email address.
That's how I will handle it if hosted as  cs...@lists.cibolo.us

John Griessen
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John D]

If the forum is nicely laid out with good readable fonts then I don't mind 
but the link posted is not my cup of tea.  Fonts are too small and very 
difficult to read.


Microsoft Forums or Adobe Forums are fine because the display is clean and 
readable.  i like to skim through the text and only read carefully if the 
topic is interesting.  At present I am spending a lot of time reading and 
researching into Bootstrap, its CSS and classes and how best to utilise 
them.





-Original Message- 
From: Cheryl D Wise

Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 6:12 PM
To: 'John Griessen' ; css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

FWIW, I rarely post since I'm mostly retired now but I do read what's
posted. I wouldn't do so with a forum.

Cheryl D Wise
http://wiserways.com
http://by-expression.com
http://cheryldwise.com


-Original Message-
From: On Behalf Of John Griessen

Do you think it is best that list members switch to forums like this one?
https://csscreator.com/forums/start-here/how  with ads for mail order brides
in the margins?

What others are there that are good?


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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[MiB]

jan 4 2016 20:38 GJim :

> I much prefer the mailing list rather than forums.

I’d like to point out that you can have a mailing list, a news group and a web 
site all mirroring each other. If that is practical from an installation, 
resource and maintenance viewpoint is a different question.

>From a personal resource and knowledge view point I think it might be better 
>to co-operate with larger groups and pool knowledge in other contexts instead 
>of being an island. The world and reality of web design has moved on very 
>quickly and new tools may be very relevant for new users.

I know that small less frequented corners of the net can give a feeling and 
possiblity of more personal conversations, so there is a value of this of 
course. But there’s also a balance that needs to be found.

In the end it’s people that counts. 

Personally I have no specific opinion on if the list should stay or not. I 
think fewer and fewer people prefer mailing lists, but this is quite uncertain 
and just an assumption.

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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Del Wegener]

Right on the money Kathy.  A very important point.
del

On 1/4/2016 1:55 PM, Kathy Wheeler wrote:

I have to make a conscious effort to go there ... my mailing lists come to me.


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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[ruth tait]

I am also someone who reads the list discussion, without posting... I am 
grateful for the narrower focus and random access knowledge the mailing list 
provides; I use stack overflow in a very different way.

Ruth Tait
http://artbyrt.com
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[D'Arcy J.M. Cain]

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 22:14:04 +0100
MiB  wrote:
> I’d like to point out that you can have a mailing list, a news group
> and a web site all mirroring each other. If that is practical from an
> installation, resource and maintenance viewpoint is a different
> question.

I am on a list that mirrors to a news group.  I finally had to add an
email filter to drop anything that came through the gateway.  It was
the only way yo make the list usable.  Adding isn't always better.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:da...@vex.net VoIP: sip:da...@vybenetworks.com
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Tom Livingston]

I'll jump back in here and say a big thank you to Mr. Meyer for all
that he has done thus far. Both with this list and in general.

Also, a big thank you to "D'Arcy J.M. Cain" for offering to pick up
the list. I have learned a lot here and hope it stays around...one way
or another.



-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Front End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com


#663399
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Dean Mah]

Hello,

evolt.org has been the host of the css-d list for some time now.
Unfortunately, evolt.org has fallen by the wayside and most of the sysadmin
team has moved away from being active members of the Web community so no
one was monitoring the list closely.

As the css-d community is deciding on the best path forward, please feel
free to e-mail me directly if you are having issues with the list.

Dean


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:33 PM, chuckmil...@new.rr.com <
chuckmil...@new.rr.com> wrote:

> Is it the reality that someone has to give their time and energy to
> operate a mailing list? Is the one who has been doing it now reluctant? Do
> those resources have to be found? Should that be discussed?
>
> Loving the list might have to lead to commitment.
>
> Chuck M
>
>
> Sent from my Virgin Mobile phone.
>
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John D]

-Original Message- 
From: Dean Mah

Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 10:49 PM
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

Hello,

evolt.org has been the host of the css-d list for some time now.
Unfortunately, evolt.org has fallen by the wayside and most of the sysadmin
team has moved away from being active members of the Web community so no
one was monitoring the list closely.

As the css-d community is deciding on the best path forward, please feel
free to e-mail me directly if you are having issues with the list.

<--- My Reply Follows >

Dean,

Do people have to pay to evolt.org to have a discussion list like this one?

Just asking because if Eric is busy to manage this list then somebody else 
can takeover the running of this.  I am sure there are so many volunteers 
ready to take that responsibility.



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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Dean Mah]

Hi,

evolt.org is financed through donations and ad revenue from
browsers.evolt.org. (Although, I believe, that donations are now mainly
from only the founding members of evolt.org since the decline.)

When lists like css-d and the javascript list were looking for hosting, we
donated our resources to them.

Dean
On Jan 4, 2016 9:18 PM, "John D" <xfs...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Dean Mah
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 10:49 PM
> To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
> Subject: Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello
>
> Hello,
>
> evolt.org has been the host of the css-d list for some time now.
> Unfortunately, evolt.org has fallen by the wayside and most of the
> sysadmin
> team has moved away from being active members of the Web community so no
> one was monitoring the list closely.
>
> As the css-d community is deciding on the best path forward, please feel
> free to e-mail me directly if you are having issues with the list.
>
> <--- My Reply Follows >
>
> Dean,
>
> Do people have to pay to evolt.org to have a discussion list like this
> one?
>
> Just asking because if Eric is busy to manage this list then somebody else
> can takeover the running of this.  I am sure there are so many volunteers
> ready to take that responsibility.
>
>
>
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Erik Visser]

Hi Eric,

I'am a member of the list for already quite some years. And i hope the 
list will continue as is. I always got great help from the other 
subscribers. As others also have written, the list is a great place to 
turn to if you have a problem you can't figure out yourself. And indeed 
in other places it is often hard to get real help.


On css-d i always get help/guidance to come to a solution, and also 
explanation to the matter. So the list is very much appreciated by me. 
And even if there are not a  lot of subscribers, the list is still very 
valuable by the people who get help here.


Thank you, Erik Visser



Op 23-12-15 om 21:35 schreef Eric A. Meyer:

Hi, everyone,

   So apparently the list software died back in October, and none of 
us really noticed until this month.  Or, if people noticed, nobody 
mentioned it until this month.  It took a while to get in touch with 
someone who could get the software restarted, but I'm told it's back 
up.  If you're reading this, then yes, it's back up.
   This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about 
the utility of css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue.  There 
are a lot of other venues for discussing CSS these days, and most of 
the reason for this list existing-- to help people figure out how CSS 
worked, and fix problems-- is covered much more compellingly by sites 
like StackOverflow.  The resources that used to support css-d, like 
the public archive and the wiki, have fallen into disuse or disrepair 
over the years.  In general, there's a faded feeling here, at least 
for me.

   Thus, I'm now pondering three courses of action:

   1. Shut down the list.  To all good things, etc.  This obviously 
abandons those who still prize having a mailing list, but that number 
seems very small.  Almost all the discussion in the months leading up 
to the hiatus was conducted between a small number of subscribers.  Of 
course, a new list could be started by someone else.
   2. Hand the list off to someone else, to guide as they see fit.  
This involves the very difficult task of finding someone who's 
interested, and making a good choice.  This is the least appealing of 
the three, honestly, because of the possibility of getting things wrong.
   3. Convert the list from "Practical discussions of CSS and its use" 
to more general discussion about anything CSS-related.  That would 
include theoretical musings, discussion of what CSS should or 
shouldn't be, where it should go in the future, the general theory of 
CSS, and so on.  I'm less inclined to go this route, as there are 
other places to grapple with the deeper issues of CSS (like www-style, 
not to mention blogs and social media).


At this point, perhaps due to pride and ego but perhaps simply due to 
feeling that the time has come, I'm leaning toward option 1. January 
24, 2016, will be the 14th anniversary of the list.  That leaves a 
month to either settle on a different course of action, or else to 
plan a shutdown.
   If anyone has strong feelings that it should be one of the other 
two options, or a fourth option I didn't list, feel free to let me 
know off-list.  I may not be able to respond to every message, but I 
will read them all.  I expect to make a final decision on or before 
January 10, 2016.  Whatever I decide, I'll announce it here.


--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[MiB]

dec 30 2015 Micky Hulse :

> Now my mind goes back to why. Why is there a lack of activity? This
> thought brings me back to the death of older browsers and the advent
> of browser support for new/easier ways of doing things related to CSS
> and HTML.

Nah, it’s stackoverflow. Only answers, little fluff. Web Development is just 
different, not easier.

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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John Griessen]

On 01/04/2016 07:30 AM, Erik Visser wrote:

none of us really noticed until this month.


I noticed.  I was busy with other things.  I'm going to have questions for the 
list members soon.  Please keep it on.

If you still think it is time to pull the plug, I'll serve up the list on my 
mailman server.
I might not do all the setup necessary to use lists.css-discuss.org as the 
domain.  It would be super easy to
restart the list as:  cs...@lists.cibolo.us though...

John Griessen
--
Ecosensory  1218 W 39th St.  Austin TX 78756
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[chuckmil...@new.rr.com]

Is it the reality that someone has to give their time and energy to operate a 
mailing list? Is the one who has been doing it now reluctant? Do those 
resources have to be found? Should that be discussed? 

Loving the list might have to lead to commitment. 

Chuck M 


Sent from my Virgin Mobile phone.

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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John Griessen]

Op 23-12-15 om 21:35 schreef Eric A. Meyer:

I'm leaning toward option 1. January 24, 2016, will be the 14th anniversary of 
the list.  That leaves a month to either settle on
a different course of action, or else to plan a shutdown.


Do you think it is best that list members switch to forums like this one?
https://csscreator.com/forums/start-here/how  with ads for mail order brides in 
the margins?

What others are there that are good?

John Griessen
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[D'Arcy J.M. Cain]

On 23-12-15 om 21:35 from Eric A. Meyer:
> I'm leaning toward option 1. January 24, 2016, will be the 14th
> anniversary of the list.  That leaves a month to either settle on a
> different course of action, or else to plan a shutdown.

I might be willing to host the mailing list on my ISP.  If you are
going to shut down perhaps I can invite everyone on this list to join
mine.  I like the mailing list format rather than forums so I hope that
we can make something work.  Can you tell me what the size of the
subscriber base is?

I have no problem limiting the discussion to HTML and CSS.  If that
makes it a low volume list then that's fine.

How does everyone like that option?

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain
Vybe Networks Inc.
http://www.VybeNetworks.com/
IM:da...@vex.net VoIP: sip:da...@vybenetworks.com
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Davies, Elizabeth]

I'm good with any option/solution that gives us the discussion and insights. 
I'll stay (or move) with the community. Thank you to those stepping forward 
with ideas.

Elizabeth Davies

All information in this message is confidential and may be legally privileged. 
Only intended recipients are authorized to use it.
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Cheryl D Wise]

FWIW, I rarely post since I'm mostly retired now but I do read what's
posted. I wouldn't do so with a forum. 

Cheryl D Wise
http://wiserways.com
http://by-expression.com
http://cheryldwise.com


-Original Message-
From: On Behalf Of John Griessen

Do you think it is best that list members switch to forums like this one?
https://csscreator.com/forums/start-here/how  with ads for mail order brides
in the margins?

What others are there that are good?


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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Micky Hulse]

I wonder if the list has quieted down due to the fact that CSS has
gotten easier to use over the years?

It would be interesting to compare the list participation to the
deaths of older Internet Explorers. :)

On top of older IEs becoming a thing of the past, and browsers
supporting cutting edge techniques, there's tons of frameworks and
other resources that help to take the guesswork out of CSS
development.

Some resources I use these days:

* GitHub
* Stack Overflow

Stack isn't really a place for one to 'converse' about a topic. It's a
reputation-powered Q/A site, not a forum or a discussion list. Apples
and oranges.

With that said, I propose that we all move over to the Web Design list:



>From the WebDesign-L policy page:

> The topic of the list is the technical, cultural, political, economic and 
> artistic aspects of web [design and] development and design as a profession 
> or hobby.

I'm pretty sure the list mom is a member of css-discuss. I'm also
pretty sure Eric is a member of wd-l.

Seeing that wd-l already exists, and it covers CSS plus everything
else, why not have the owners join forces and consolidate?

Side note: The WebDesign-L list has also seen a drop in usage over the
last few years. Just another reason to combine the two lists from my
point of view.

Who's with me?!?! :)
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Tom Livingston]

>
> With that said, I propose that we all move over to the Web Design list:
>
> 
>
> >From the WebDesign-L policy page:
>
>> The topic of the list is the technical, cultural, political, economic and 
>> artistic aspects of web [design and] development and design as a profession 
>> or hobby.
>
> I'm pretty sure the list mom is a member of css-discuss. I'm also
> pretty sure Eric is a member of wd-l.
>
> Seeing that wd-l already exists, and it covers CSS plus everything
> else, why not have the owners join forces and consolidate?
>
> Side note: The WebDesign-L list has also seen a drop in usage over the
> last few years. Just another reason to combine the two lists from my
> point of view.
>
> Who's with me?!?! :)
> __


I've used WD-L only a few times (not counting while css-d was down). I
don't think the responses are on par with css-d. I *get* answers, but,
like stackoverflow, "just use Bootstrap" isn't a good answer to me.


-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Front End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com


#663399
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Felix Miata]

Micky Hulse composed on 2015-12-30 10:38 (UTC-0800):

> I've been a member of both lists for a long time. When the wd-l list
> was active, I don't remember seeing "just use bootstrap" as a reply.
> While the participation has been down for the last couple of years
> (just like CSS-d), the wd-l list has been a pretty awesome place to
> discuss things (in past years that is). I think there's a lot of
> people on css-d that are also members of wd-l.

+1

> Also, if we consolidated (not sure of logistics involved) then all the
> people here would be there (or, a hybrid list in-between), and you
> would get the best of both worlds.
> :)

I don't share your best of both opinion. I like the tight focus here. There's
good when a hybrid solution is OK. Here's better when interested in a purely
CSS approach.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Micky Hulse]

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Tom Livingston  wrote:
> I've used WD-L only a few times (not counting while css-d was down). I
> don't think the responses are on par with css-d. I *get* answers, but,
> like stackoverflow, "just use Bootstrap" isn't a good answer to me.

I've been a member of both lists for a long time. When the wd-l list
was active, I don't remember seeing "just use bootstrap" as a reply.
While the participation has been down for the last couple of years
(just like CSS-d), the wd-l list has been a pretty awesome place to
discuss things (in past years that is). I think there's a lot of
people on css-d that are also members of wd-l.

Also, if we consolidated (not sure of logistics involved) then all the
people here would be there (or, a hybrid list in-between), and you
would get the best of both worlds.
:)
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Micky Hulse]

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Felix Miata  wrote:
> I don't share your best of both opinion. I like the tight focus here. There's
> good when a hybrid solution is OK. Here's better when interested in a purely
> CSS approach.

I can't argue with that. :)

I suppose I'm just trying to think of a way to revitalize the listserv
community for both CSS-d and wd-l, as they are both in same boat in
terms of activity.

I agree about this list having a tight focus, but that does not do
much good when no one is really using it.

Then again, to play devil's advocate to my own proposal, combining two
inactive lists would probably just lead to more inactivity?

Now my mind goes back to why. Why is there a lack of activity? This
thought brings me back to the death of older browsers and the advent
of browser support for new/easier ways of doing things related to CSS
and HTML.

To bring us back to the original question, has the community outgrown
the need for this, and the WebDesign, lists?

To quote Eric:

> Almost all the discussion in the months leading up to the hiatus was 
> conducted between a small number of subscribers.

On the other hand, to quote Kathy:

> LOl yes, 4. Do nothing ...

Problem solved?
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Davies, Elizabeth]

Like many other here, I've belonged to this list for a very long time. Of all 
the web resources, this is the one I trust and know that there are voices 
proven over the years to provide solid advice. When I first started I was an 
active voice, but eventually due to life and work requirements dropped to a 
lurker roll. But through it all I've read and used this list for the gems that 
appear. I tend to only read/update about every two weeks but it's a ritual. One 
I would miss and that I value. The other resources don't provide the focus and 
discipline of css-discuss.  

Elizabeth Davies


-Original Message-
From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org 
[mailto:css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of COM
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2015 8:35 PM
To: Eric A. Meyer <e...@meyerweb.com>; CSS-Discuss <css-d@lists.css-discuss.org>
Subject: Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

Eric, List;

I think that to discontinue the list would be a tragic loss. I respect and 
value the list’s purity/adherence to mission (CSS-only) and the speed/response 
time that others have cited. 

It might be nice to expand the scope of what this list covers, but it’s a 
slippery slope…if you include HTML, why not include javascript, too?  All three 
(and more) technologies work with each other, so where would the limits be?

On the other hand, CSS and HTML are like salt and pepper, bert and ernie, bread 
and butter. They seem to be the keys to each other’s locks, or perhaps together 
they form a whole technology, and within that perspective, I can see a list 
embracing both technologies as a focus.

Either way, please continue the list. Thank you for what you have done so 
far..I know that these things don’t put themselves together!

John
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John D]

> On the other hand, CSS and HTML are like salt and pepper, bert and ernie, 
> bread and butter. They seem to be the keys to each other’s locks, or perhaps 
> together they form a whole technology, and within that perspective, I can see 
> a list embracing both technologies as a focus.
> 

Despite what people might think, Bootstrap is pure CSS and the code works out 
of the box for today's hunger for responsive websites.

JS is optional extra as is glyphicons fonts and we don't need to discuss here 
if it is considered outside the scope of this forum. 


  
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[COM]

Eric, List;

I think that to discontinue the list would be a tragic loss. I respect and 
value the list’s purity/adherence to mission (CSS-only) and the speed/response 
time that others have cited. 

It might be nice to expand the scope of what this list covers, but it’s a 
slippery slope…if you include HTML, why not include javascript, too?  All three 
(and more) technologies work with each other, so where would the limits be?

On the other hand, CSS and HTML are like salt and pepper, bert and ernie, bread 
and butter. They seem to be the keys to each other’s locks, or perhaps together 
they form a whole technology, and within that perspective, I can see a list 
embracing both technologies as a focus.

Either way, please continue the list. Thank you for what you have done so 
far..I know that these things don’t put themselves together!

John
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Nancy Johnson]

Eric, I appreciate having this list and thank you for all your work.
I  am not a large user of the list, but rely on this list for complex
css3/html questions.  I know when I post I am getting the best
information available.  If it can continue,  I would love to see it
expand to JS/JQuery as it is more and more integral to client-side
coding.

Nancy

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 2:16 PM, John D  wrote:
> The way I see it is that we should expand this list to make it more appealing 
> to Web designers and creators.  To do this we could allow discussion on 
> matters such as:
>
> HTML
> CSS
> Javascript
> jquery
> Bootstrap styles
> glyphicons
> And anything else relevant to Web designs and web sites.
>
>
> There is another newsgroup for webDesigns but It is too retrictive and 
> moderator doesn't allow my questions or answers so I gave up.  Also, there 
> aren't anything suitable forums or newsgroups for Bootstraps so perhaps we 
> coud be the first to get started before somebody else gets into it.
>
>
>
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Bruno Fassino]

> On Dec 24, 2015, at 05:35, Eric A. Meyer  wrote:
> If anyone has strong feelings that it should be one of the other two
> options, or a fourth option I didn't list, feel free to let me know
> off-list.

Replying to this thread we are a bit outside what you asked, especially for
the "off-list" part :-)
Anyway, thanks for maintaining this resource for so many years!   I've been
on this list for about 12 years, not contributed to it for a long time now,
mainly because my work is now only intermittently related to CSS, but I've
always browsed through its messages, and I always found it very valuable.
So, I'm essentially repeating what others have already said, but I would
really miss this resource if Option 1 were the choice.  Option 3 sound
rather interesting.

Best wishes,
Bruno
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John D]

The way I see it is that we should expand this list to make it more appealing 
to Web designers and creators.  To do this we could allow discussion on matters 
such as:

HTML
CSS
Javascript
jquery
Bootstrap styles
glyphicons
And anything else relevant to Web designs and web sites.


There is another newsgroup for webDesigns but It is too retrictive and 
moderator doesn't allow my questions or answers so I gave up.  Also, there 
aren't anything suitable forums or newsgroups for Bootstraps so perhaps we coud 
be the first to get started before somebody else gets into it.


  
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Donna Jones]

This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about the
utility of css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue.


First of all Eric, thank you for this list and all your css-expertise 
and time.


i don't do much w/ this list but i would be very sad to see it 
disappear, its the very first place i would turn to if help was needed.


i do still read messages and learn from others' issues, and i think 
that's one of the main benefits of a list like this.  also, its very 
accessible in my email, every message goes right to the folder and then 
they're all threaded 


i don't know how much time it takes for you Eric to be the "list 
mother".  i subscribe also to WiseWomen (Dori Smith is the list mother 
there) and it feels that that list is pretty much operating 
automatically but it is set up more broadly, meaning we can talk about 
pretty much anything as long as its web related so there isn't much need 
to keep things "on point".  (we have a separate "talk" list.)


anyhoo, hope you keep it going but if not, i'm sure everyone will 
understand and appreciate all your years of work here.


best
Donna


--
Donna Jones
Portland, ME  04101
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Tim Dawson]

Hello Eric,

I had missed the list, but like many others didn't know what to do about it. Eventually I 
e-mailed Tom Livingstone, and found he was in a similar position.


I would be sorry to see the list depart. It has several advantages over its 
'rivals':
1. Response is incredibly quick
2. Respondents are keen to help, not to deride one's 'ignorance' or score points
3. The advice is relevant
4. It's more accessible (no browser required).

Ultimately the decision is yours, of course. I have no idea how much of your time it takes. 
Maybe it can be left to run itself much of the time, and we can all do our share of keeping 
stuff on topic etc.


Best Wishes,

Tim Dawson



On 23/12/2015 20:35, Eric A. Meyer wrote:

Hi, everyone,

So apparently the list software died back in October, and none of us really 
noticed until
this month.  Or, if people noticed, nobody mentioned it until this month.  It 
took a while to
get in touch with someone who could get the software restarted, but I'm told 
it's back up.  If
you're reading this, then yes, it's back up.
This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about the 
utility of
css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue.  There are a lot of other venues 
for discussing
CSS these days, and most of the reason for this list existing-- to help people 
figure out how
CSS worked, and fix problems-- is covered much more compellingly by sites like 
StackOverflow.
The resources that used to support css-d, like the public archive and the wiki, 
have fallen into
disuse or disrepair over the years.  In general, there's a faded feeling here, 
at least for me.
Thus, I'm now pondering three courses of action:

1. Shut down the list.  To all good things, etc.  This obviously abandons 
those who still
prize having a mailing list, but that number seems very small.  Almost all the 
discussion in the
months leading up to the hiatus was conducted between a small number of 
subscribers.  Of course,
a new list could be started by someone else.
2. Hand the list off to someone else, to guide as they see fit. This 
involves the very
difficult task of finding someone who's interested, and making a good choice.  
This is the least
appealing of the three, honestly, because of the possibility of getting things 
wrong.
3. Convert the list from "Practical discussions of CSS and its use" to more 
general
discussion about anything CSS-related.  That would include theoretical musings, 
discussion of
what CSS should or shouldn't be, where it should go in the future, the general 
theory of CSS,
and so on.  I'm less inclined to go this route, as there are other places to 
grapple with the
deeper issues of CSS (like www-style, not to mention blogs and social media).

At this point, perhaps due to pride and ego but perhaps simply due to feeling 
that the time has
come, I'm leaning toward option 1.  January 24, 2016, will be the 14th 
anniversary of the list.
That leaves a month to either settle on a different course of action, or else 
to plan a shutdown.
If anyone has strong feelings that it should be one of the other two 
options, or a fourth
option I didn't list, feel free to let me know off-list.  I may not be able to 
respond to every
message, but I will read them all.  I expect to make a final decision on or 
before January 10,
2016.  Whatever I decide, I'll announce it here.

--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
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--
Tim Dawson
Maolbhuidhe
Fionnphort
Isle of Mull  PA66 6BP

01681 700718
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Isabel Santos]

Dear Eric,

first of all, tank you so mutch for your css-d work all this years.

I've been using the list on and off over its existence (my web work is
intermitent, so I need refreshes and upadates from time to time, but
reading about doubts others find is a great way to get speed up updating
curves).

I do confess I've not been contributing anything in this last years, my
time is getting shorter, and the idea of loosing one more excelent web
resource simply makes me feel guilty.
All I can say about that is that not participating in the discussions is
not the same as unsubscribing. I still read the list, mostly in batches.

Mailing lists are getting "out of fashion", all other web design lists I
subscribed have already died out (I still miss the web standards list), and
it makes me sad.

I do like new things, but some of the older ones just do not have good
enough substitutes.
As for other platforms, they are requirering more and more data from
subscribers and even passers by, and I do care a lot for my privacy. That
is why, for instance, I do not have a StackOverflow login. Newer is not
always better.
Also, some of the many other css resources out there, speacilly some famous
blogs, are really good looking, easy to find, and with a lot of
functionality, but lack in content quality and accuracy.

So if you are wondering about the utility of css-discuss, and whether it
needs to continue, at least for me it reatains its usefulness and makes all
the sense to keep it.

As for your pondering points, the first one sounds really frightening. For
the second, one would require some luck; I do not see myself as constant or
relliable enough to volunteer - all I could do woukd be to promisse to
parcicipate more for a while, wich is certainly not what would be needed.
By parts exclusion, it seams to me the third point deserves some
consideration...

(would it work something like a "please, please, I beg of you, do not let
it die"?)


:)
All the best,
Merry Christmas,

isabel



On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Angela French  wrote:

> I missed it.  I posted a few times over the last few months but didn't
> know what the issue was.  I have always appreciated the vast experience of
> the people on this list.  More than once someone helped me out of a
> pickle.  In addition, I would often read threads that didn't necessarily
> have any connection to a current issue I was fretting over, but the subject
> line caught my attention as something worth reading.  This list has
> definitely contributed to my cSS knowledge over the years.  I hope it keeps
> going.
>
> Angela French
> WA State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
>
> -Original Message-
> From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org [mailto:
> css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of Eric A. Meyer
> Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 12:35 PM
> To: CSS-D Discuss
> Subject: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello
>
> Hi, everyone,
>
> So apparently the list software died back in October, and none of us
> really noticed until this month.  Or, if people noticed, nobody mentioned
> it until this month.  It took a while to get in touch with someone who
> could get the software restarted, but I'm told it's back up.
>   If you're reading this, then yes, it's back up.
> This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about the
> utility of css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue.  There are a lot
> of other venues for discussing CSS these days, and most of the reason for
> this list existing-- to help people figure out how CSS worked, and fix
> problems-- is covered much more compellingly by sites like StackOverflow.
> The resources that used to support css-d, like the public archive and the
> wiki, have fallen into disuse or disrepair over the years.  In general,
> there's a faded feeling here, at least for me.
> Thus, I'm now pondering three courses of action:
>
> 1. Shut down the list.  To all good things, etc.  This obviously
> abandons those who still prize having a mailing list, but that number seems
> very small.  Almost all the discussion in the months leading up to the
> hiatus was conducted between a small number of subscribers.  Of course, a
> new list could be started by someone else.
> 2. Hand the list off to someone else, to guide as they see fit.
> This involves the very difficult task of finding someone who's interested,
> and making a good choice.  This is the least appealing of the three,
> honestly, because of the possibility of getting things wrong.
> 3. Convert the list from "Practical discussions of CSS and its use"
> to more general discussion about anything CSS-related.  That would include
> theoretical musings, discussion of what CSS should or shouldn't be, where
> it should go in the future, the general theory of CSS, and so on.  I'm less
> inclined to go this route, as there are other places to grapple with the
> deeper issues of CSS (like www-style, not to mention 

Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Del Wegener]

I have subscribed to this list for 10 or 12 years and have learned a lot 
from all of the friendly experts.  The nature of my work takes me away 
from web development for long periods of time and then dumps me back 
into it. During the absence I will have forgotten a lot and tools (CSS, 
HTML, JavaScript, etc) have moved on without me.  A list like this is 
extremely valuable in the necessary review and catch-up.  I hope there 
is some way to keep it functioning as it has for all these years.

Del

On 12/23/2015 2:35 PM, Eric A. Meyer wrote:

Hi, everyone,

So apparently the list software died back in October, and none of us
really noticed until this month.  Or, if people noticed, nobody
mentioned it until this month.  It took a while to get in touch with
someone who could get the software restarted, but I'm told it's back up.
  If you're reading this, then yes, it's back up.
This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about
the utility of css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue.  There are
a lot of other venues for discussing CSS these days, and most of the
reason for this list existing-- to help people figure out how CSS
worked, and fix problems-- is covered much more compellingly by sites
like StackOverflow.  The resources that used to support css-d, like the
public archive and the wiki, have fallen into disuse or disrepair over
the years.  In general, there's a faded feeling here, at least for me.
Thus, I'm now pondering three courses of action:

1. Shut down the list.  To all good things, etc.  This obviously
abandons those who still prize having a mailing list, but that number
seems very small.  Almost all the discussion in the months leading up to
the hiatus was conducted between a small number of subscribers.  Of
course, a new list could be started by someone else.
2. Hand the list off to someone else, to guide as they see fit. This
involves the very difficult task of finding someone who's interested,
and making a good choice.  This is the least appealing of the three,
honestly, because of the possibility of getting things wrong.
3. Convert the list from "Practical discussions of CSS and its use"
to more general discussion about anything CSS-related.  That would
include theoretical musings, discussion of what CSS should or shouldn't
be, where it should go in the future, the general theory of CSS, and so
on.  I'm less inclined to go this route, as there are other places to
grapple with the deeper issues of CSS (like www-style, not to mention
blogs and social media).

At this point, perhaps due to pride and ego but perhaps simply due to
feeling that the time has come, I'm leaning toward option 1.  January
24, 2016, will be the 14th anniversary of the list.  That leaves a month
to either settle on a different course of action, or else to plan a
shutdown.
If anyone has strong feelings that it should be one of the other two
options, or a fourth option I didn't list, feel free to let me know
off-list.  I may not be able to respond to every message, but I will
read them all.  I expect to make a final decision on or before January
10, 2016.  Whatever I decide, I'll announce it here.

--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Geoff Lane]

On Thursday, December 24, 2015, 7:19:14 PM, Del Wegener wrote:

> I have subscribed to this list for 10 or 12 years and have learned a lot
> from all of the friendly experts.  The nature of my work takes me away
> from web development for long periods of time and then dumps me back 
> into it. During the absence I will have forgotten a lot and tools (CSS,
> HTML, JavaScript, etc) have moved on without me.  A list like this is 
> extremely valuable in the necessary review and catch-up.  I hope there
> is some way to keep it functioning as it has for all these years.
> Del

This is pretty much my situation. I sit on the side, archiving all the
pearls of wisdom, until the next time I find myself delivering HTML,
CSS, PHP, JavaScript, etc. Right now, I'm delivering almost all my
stuff in Microsoft Office formats but, when I next need to deliver a
documentation suite via an intranet, this list becomes invaluable. I
too hope it can be kept functioning.

-- 
Geoff


---
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Yolanda van Nieuwkoop]

I am reading on this list, and learning and finding it very valuable.

I have missed it.

there have been some suggestions in this thread to keep it going.
Maybe there is a volunteer to help?
greetings
Yolanda



2015-12-24 4:33 GMT+01:00 J.C. Berry :
> +1 on Karl's opinion and suggestion.
>
> On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Karl DeSaulniers 
> wrote:

>> +1
>>
>> 4th option
>>
>> This list is invaluable. I have watched people grow in understanding and
>> experience here. To go away now would be a real shame IMO. Not to burden
>> you with any extra work, but you need to start a JavaScript list too. This
>> type of interaction on things is what's invaluable. You don't get the same
>> on Stack because everyone is worried about points. Here it's just real
>> help. Please don't go.
>>
>> Best,
>> Karl DeSaulniers
>> Design Drumm

> --
> J.C. Berry, M.A.
> UI Developer
> 619.306.1712(m)
> jcharlesbe...@gmail.com
> http://www.mindarc.com
> 
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

> On Dec 24, 2015, at 05:35, Eric A. Meyer  wrote:
> 
> This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about the utility 
> of css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue. 

As an early subscriber (my archives go back to early February 2002!), I would 
be sad to see this list disappear. The community is immensely more valuable and 
friendly than StackOverflow and the like.

That said, I understand your reasons for being not much more than lukewarm 
towards continuing to maintain this list alive. Traffic has been slowing down 
over the past 18 months or so. Stackoverflow, Github and some forums have a 
better perceived value to people.

Option 2 is a variant on an hypothetical option 4 voiced by some: keep the list 
alive, but under new management. Ok, maybe ? Does such a potential saviour 
exist?

Your option 3 would be … interesting. Over the past few months I’ve come to 
some realisation that there is a need for an alternative space (to www-style) 
to discuss the deeper issues of CSS. I don’t really now (yet ?) what that 
should be and how to bring it to life, though.

At any rate, thank you, Eric, for starting this run and maintaining it over the 
years!

Philippe
--
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John D]

-Original Message- 
From: Angela French

Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:23 PM
To: Eric A. Meyer ; CSS-D Discuss
Subject: Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

I missed it.  I posted a few times over the last few months but didn't know 
what the issue was.  I have always appreciated the vast experience of the 
people on this list.  More than once someone helped me out of a pickle.  In 
addition, I would often read threads that didn't necessarily have any 
connection to a current issue I was fretting over, but the subject line 
caught my attention as something worth reading.  This list has definitely 
contributed to my cSS knowledge over the years.  I hope it keeps going.


Angela French
WA State Board for Community and Technical Colleges



Me too.  I posted a message to ask about it on 12th of December but the 
email bounced or it wasn't delivered.  I then thought I will try to contact 
Tom Livingstone to ask him if he knows anything but I didn't because I 
thought he is a very busy man and I can't trouble him for this.



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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Tom Livingston]

I would miss it. I use(ed) it frequently and was glad for the expertise
that I knew was at the other side of responses I received. I also enjoy
helping people with issues as well.  I did attempt to reach you on Twitter
on Nov 19 when I first found my posts not getting through. I do hope you
would consider a fourth option of just keeping it up.



-- 

Tom Livingston | Senior Front End Developer | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | medialogic.com


#663399
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Kathy Wheeler]

LOl yes, 4. Do nothing ...


On 12/24/2015, at 10:44 AM, Tom Livingston wrote:

> I do hope you
> would consider a fourth option of just keeping it up.

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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[J.C. Berry]

+1 on Karl's opinion and suggestion.

On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Karl DeSaulniers 
wrote:

> +1
>
> 4th option
>
> This list is invaluable. I have watched people grow in understanding and
> experience here. To go away now would be a real shame IMO. Not to burden
> you with any extra work, but you need to start a JavaScript list too. This
> type of interaction on things is what's invaluable. You don't get the same
> on Stack because everyone is worried about points. Here it's just real
> help. Please don't go.
>
> Best,
> Karl DeSaulniers
> Design Drumm
> __
> css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
> List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
> List policies -- http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
> Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
>



-- 
J.C. Berry, M.A.
UI Developer
619.306.1712(m)
jcharlesbe...@gmail.com
http://www.mindarc.com


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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John D]

Hi, everyone,

   So apparently the list software died back in October, and none of us 
really noticed until this month.  Or, if people noticed, nobody mentioned 
it until this month.


I did noticed it but my messages weren't reaching to anybody.

I thought that somebody posted some spam messages using my email and so you 
decided to remove me from the list.  I tried to login but my password wasn't 
accepted.  So this made me think that this is it.  I have become a 
persona-non-grata and I have been unsubscribed.


I have recently stared learning "Bootstrap Essentials" and so this list is 
ideal for it especially when it comes to css aspects.






1. Shut down the list.  To all good things, etc.  This obviously 
abandons those who still prize having a mailing list, but that number 
seems very small.  Almost all the discussion in the months leading up to 
the hiatus was conducted between a small number of subscribers.  Of 
course, a new list could be started by someone else.


Continue with the list but enlist the help of volunteer from this list so 
that two of you can manage it efficiently.




2. Hand the list off to someone else, to guide as they see fit.


I guess enlisting the help of a volunteer or volunteers is the best way 
forward.


People here can vote for somebody to volunteer so that we have somebody 
elected by users.


Anyway me thinks so.


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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Rick Gordon]

I've been an infrequent poster, and I do use Internet searches, 
css-tricks.com (though I haven't used the forum yet, and maybe I 
should), etc. as my first line.


However, I've found this invaluable when it just comes down to something 
I can't figure out, and know that there are people on this list that 
will actually take a look and offer expert suggestions.


I guess I haven't figured out how to get traction on StackOverflow. It's 
great for finding discussions that are already there, but anytime I've 
posted my own question, it just seems to be lost in the land of Too Much 
Information.


So this is not a CSS question per se, but any tips on how to get advice 
as reliably as on this list are most welcome.


I actually was trying to post when I noticed that everything was getting 
bounced, but I already figured out my problem there.


Rick Gordon

-
On 12/23/15, 12:35 PM, Eric A. Meyer wrote:
There are a lot of other venues for discussing CSS these days, and 
most of the reason for this list existing-- to help people figure out 
how CSS worked, and fix problems-- is covered much more compellingly 
by sites like StackOverflow.

___
RICK GORDON
EMERALD VALLEY GRAPHICS AND CONSULTING
___
WWW: http://www.shelterpub.com
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Shaf Syed]

Eric,

I am sorry you have to come to these decisions. But since I cannot see it
from your perspective I am confident you will make the proper choice for
all. I originally got on the list when I first started my journey with CSS
and at that time there were not many resources available. Now with the
proliferation of the Web it is not difficult to find alternatives. One of
the reasons I joined was to have peer discussions with you and other
notable experts in the field. To my surprise it was not that and the amount
of your participation in this group was not what I expected. Regardless, I
vote for the first option. If this group was active such as Sitepoint
forums where one can seek direct assistance it would be worth it to have
access to specialized peers. In contrast to Sitepoint and other CSS forums
this mailing list had the potential to be something "special" and
"personal". Unfortunately, from my observance and lack of participation,
the mailing list has not evolved into something great. I support you in
whatever decision you make. Thanks for all your efforts.

-Shaf

On Wed, Dec 23, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Eric A. Meyer  wrote:

> Hi, everyone,
>
>So apparently the list software died back in October, and none of us
> really noticed until this month.  Or, if people noticed, nobody mentioned
> it until this month.  It took a while to get in touch with someone who
> could get the software restarted, but I'm told it's back up.  If you're
> reading this, then yes, it's back up.
>This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about the
> utility of css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue.  There are a lot
> of other venues for discussing CSS these days, and most of the reason for
> this list existing-- to help people figure out how CSS worked, and fix
> problems-- is covered much more compellingly by sites like StackOverflow.
> The resources that used to support css-d, like the public archive and the
> wiki, have fallen into disuse or disrepair over the years.  In general,
> there's a faded feeling here, at least for me.
>Thus, I'm now pondering three courses of action:
>
>1. Shut down the list.  To all good things, etc.  This obviously
> abandons those who still prize having a mailing list, but that number seems
> very small.  Almost all the discussion in the months leading up to the
> hiatus was conducted between a small number of subscribers.  Of course, a
> new list could be started by someone else.
>2. Hand the list off to someone else, to guide as they see fit.  This
> involves the very difficult task of finding someone who's interested, and
> making a good choice.  This is the least appealing of the three, honestly,
> because of the possibility of getting things wrong.
>3. Convert the list from "Practical discussions of CSS and its use" to
> more general discussion about anything CSS-related.  That would include
> theoretical musings, discussion of what CSS should or shouldn't be, where
> it should go in the future, the general theory of CSS, and so on.  I'm less
> inclined to go this route, as there are other places to grapple with the
> deeper issues of CSS (like www-style, not to mention blogs and social
> media).
>
> At this point, perhaps due to pride and ego but perhaps simply due to
> feeling that the time has come, I'm leaning toward option 1.  January 24,
> 2016, will be the 14th anniversary of the list.  That leaves a month to
> either settle on a different course of action, or else to plan a shutdown.
>If anyone has strong feelings that it should be one of the other two
> options, or a fourth option I didn't list, feel free to let me know
> off-list.  I may not be able to respond to every message, but I will read
> them all.  I expect to make a final decision on or before January 10,
> 2016.  Whatever I decide, I'll announce it here.
>
> --
> Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
> __
> css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
> http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d
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>
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Karl DeSaulniers]

+1

4th option

This list is invaluable. I have watched people grow in understanding and 
experience here. To go away now would be a real shame IMO. Not to burden you 
with any extra work, but you need to start a JavaScript list too. This type of 
interaction on things is what's invaluable. You don't get the same on Stack 
because everyone is worried about points. Here it's just real help. Please 
don't go. 

Best,
Karl DeSaulniers
Design Drumm
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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[John D]

-Original Message- 
From: Greg Gamble

Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 10:22 PM
To: CSS-D Discuss
Subject: Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

I've been hoping for a return of the list.  I've tried sending a few 
posts, but thought I was locked out for some reason ... glad to know it 
was only a software issue.



Maybe keep it going for a while, and see if it picks up??




Me too.  I thought I have been banned from the list through no fault of 
mine.


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Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Greg Gamble]

I've been hoping for a return of the list.  I've tried sending a few posts, but 
thought I was locked out for some reason ... glad to know it was only a 
software issue.

Maybe keep it going for a while, and see if it picks up??


Greg 

-Original Message-
From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org 
[mailto:css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of Eric A. Meyer
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 12:35 PM
To: CSS-D Discuss
Subject: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

Hi, everyone,

So apparently the list software died back in October, and none of us really 
noticed until this month.  Or, if people noticed, nobody mentioned it until 
this month.  It took a while to get in touch with someone who could get the 
software restarted, but I'm told it's back up. 
  If you're reading this, then yes, it's back up.
This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about the 
utility of css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue.  There are a lot of 
other venues for discussing CSS these days, and most of the reason for this 
list existing-- to help people figure out how CSS worked, and fix problems-- is 
covered much more compellingly by sites like StackOverflow.  The resources that 
used to support css-d, like the public archive and the wiki, have fallen into 
disuse or disrepair over the years.  In general, there's a faded feeling here, 
at least for me.
Thus, I'm now pondering three courses of action:

1. Shut down the list.  To all good things, etc.  This obviously abandons 
those who still prize having a mailing list, but that number seems very small.  
Almost all the discussion in the months leading up to the hiatus was conducted 
between a small number of subscribers.  Of course, a new list could be started 
by someone else.
2. Hand the list off to someone else, to guide as they see fit.  
This involves the very difficult task of finding someone who's interested, and 
making a good choice.  This is the least appealing of the three, honestly, 
because of the possibility of getting things wrong.
3. Convert the list from "Practical discussions of CSS and its use" 
to more general discussion about anything CSS-related.  That would include 
theoretical musings, discussion of what CSS should or shouldn't be, where it 
should go in the future, the general theory of CSS, and so on.  I'm less 
inclined to go this route, as there are other places to grapple with the deeper 
issues of CSS (like www-style, not to mention blogs and social media).

At this point, perhaps due to pride and ego but perhaps simply due to feeling 
that the time has come, I'm leaning toward option 1.  January 24, 2016, will be 
the 14th anniversary of the list.  That leaves a month to either settle on a 
different course of action, or else to plan a shutdown.
If anyone has strong feelings that it should be one of the other two 
options, or a fourth option I didn't list, feel free to let me know off-list.  
I may not be able to respond to every message, but I will read them all.  I 
expect to make a final decision on or before January 10, 2016.  Whatever I 
decide, I'll announce it here.

--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
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http://css-discuss.org/policies.html
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css-discuss [css-d@lists.css-discuss.org]
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Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/

Re: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

[Angela French]

I missed it.  I posted a few times over the last few months but didn't know 
what the issue was.  I have always appreciated the vast experience of the 
people on this list.  More than once someone helped me out of a pickle.  In 
addition, I would often read threads that didn't necessarily have any 
connection to a current issue I was fretting over, but the subject line caught 
my attention as something worth reading.  This list has definitely contributed 
to my cSS knowledge over the years.  I hope it keeps going.

Angela French 
WA State Board for Community and Technical Colleges

-Original Message-
From: css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org 
[mailto:css-d-boun...@lists.css-discuss.org] On Behalf Of Eric A. Meyer
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 12:35 PM
To: CSS-D Discuss
Subject: [css-d] [ADMIN] Hello, my friends, hello

Hi, everyone,

So apparently the list software died back in October, and none of us really 
noticed until this month.  Or, if people noticed, nobody mentioned it until 
this month.  It took a while to get in touch with someone who could get the 
software restarted, but I'm told it's back up. 
  If you're reading this, then yes, it's back up.
This hiatus and its lack of observance has led me to wonder about the 
utility of css-discuss, and whether it needs to continue.  There are a lot of 
other venues for discussing CSS these days, and most of the reason for this 
list existing-- to help people figure out how CSS worked, and fix problems-- is 
covered much more compellingly by sites like StackOverflow.  The resources that 
used to support css-d, like the public archive and the wiki, have fallen into 
disuse or disrepair over the years.  In general, there's a faded feeling here, 
at least for me.
Thus, I'm now pondering three courses of action:

1. Shut down the list.  To all good things, etc.  This obviously abandons 
those who still prize having a mailing list, but that number seems very small.  
Almost all the discussion in the months leading up to the hiatus was conducted 
between a small number of subscribers.  Of course, a new list could be started 
by someone else.
2. Hand the list off to someone else, to guide as they see fit.  
This involves the very difficult task of finding someone who's interested, and 
making a good choice.  This is the least appealing of the three, honestly, 
because of the possibility of getting things wrong.
3. Convert the list from "Practical discussions of CSS and its use" 
to more general discussion about anything CSS-related.  That would include 
theoretical musings, discussion of what CSS should or shouldn't be, where it 
should go in the future, the general theory of CSS, and so on.  I'm less 
inclined to go this route, as there are other places to grapple with the deeper 
issues of CSS (like www-style, not to mention blogs and social media).

At this point, perhaps due to pride and ego but perhaps simply due to feeling 
that the time has come, I'm leaning toward option 1.  January 24, 2016, will be 
the 14th anniversary of the list.  That leaves a month to either settle on a 
different course of action, or else to plan a shutdown.
If anyone has strong feelings that it should be one of the other two 
options, or a fourth option I didn't list, feel free to let me know off-list.  
I may not be able to respond to every message, but I will read them all.  I 
expect to make a final decision on or before January 10, 2016.  Whatever I 
decide, I'll announce it here.

--
Eric A. Meyer - http://meyerweb.com/
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List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/
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Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/