Re: [css-d] At what point does it become more beneficial to use CSS?
I'm going to add one more point...you asked about the reason that the burden is placed on the designer. There is a fairly significant belief today that the web is about openness and flexibility. A newspaper, for example, is a fixed entity. There is no way to produce newspapers of different sizes, fonts, papers, etc., that would make everyone happy AND be cheap to produce. However, the web can provide this. Why should I insist that my user be on a desktop machine? Why shouldn't someone be able to access my website on a handheld? A cell phone? A text browser? There are plenty who disagree with this, but I believe that this is what the web is about, and I believe it is my job to build the web in ways that allow this. The only reason that more people don't see it this way is that the people who we work for don't understand the web. Clients, management...many worked in a non-web world in the past, and they don't fully grasp the potential of the web heading into the future. It's our job to do things the right way now. CSS is one of those tools that makes the web more open, more flexible, and more accommodating of our diverse world, rather than the one-size-has-to-fit-all approach of past technologies. Eric Shepherd Buffalo, New York www.arkitrave.com/log/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] At what point does it become more beneficial to use CSS?
Eric Shepherd wrote: I'm going to add one more point...you asked about the reason that the burden is placed on the designer. There is a fairly significant belief I cannot agree more, I spent the whole morning trying to explain to a client that we work in a fluid medium and we cannot hope to dictate the exact presentation of the web page. The kicker was when I went to their old website on my cell phone and showed how it could not display at all. (the sell cell phones!!) The worst is print based graphic designers that want every thing exactly as the designed. What I do is take them for a walk through their building and show them the same web site on 20 different computers and browsers Usually works Suddenly the true impact and power of CSS gets to them. Beware it is also a curse!:) Rob __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] At what point does it become more beneficial to use CSS?
Steve Clay wrote: Friday, September 16, 2005, 12:27:31 PM, Rick Faircloth wrote: in today's broadband world... Ask me when my roommates are using Soulseek! Things can get /much/ slower than dial-up. In today's broadband world here, any local broadband network cell that is full gets speed of 3-10KB/sec speeds, so conserving bandwidth is still important even this broadband world. ALSO, your website pays for its bandwidth, one way or another. So if your site serves up larger pages, your costs are larger. Costs means either you pay more for the bandwidth used, or you pay because your site stops being accessible when the hosting service cuts it off until the next chunk of your bandwidth allocation kicks in ... -- David [EMAIL PROTECTED] authenticity, honesty, community __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] At what point does it become more beneficial to use CSS?
On 16/09/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, I just wonder...at what point does it become more desirable to use CSS as opposed to tables? Aren't tables more compatible? Is it a matter of CSS being easier to maintain in a group of designers or in a corporate setting where changes that come down the pipe are more easily made by changing style sheets? There are many benefits to using CSS, but IMO the most important is accessibility. Sure...CSS is less code, but in today's broadband world, is the difference in code really that significant? Sorry, but there are a LOT of people still using dial-up -- some happy to get 14.4 -- it is a mistake to *assume* everybody is broadband. -- T. R. Valentine Use a decent browser: Safari, Firefox, Mozilla, Opera (Avoid IE like the plague it is) __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] At what point does it become more beneficial to use CSS?
Friday, September 16, 2005, 12:27:31 PM, Rick Faircloth wrote: at what point does it become more desirable to use CSS Good question. I say as use what you're comfortable with. If you don't understand it, or don't think you could fix it, maybe shouldn't use it on sites you build for others. But at some point you just have to dig in. People have been using CSS layout since before 2000 and 5 years later we have Yahoo, MSN, ESPN, Sprint and every blog on board... How much longer do you plan to wait? But this list is more for practical CSS usage help: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=OffTopic While you're here, anyway, we can help. in today's broadband world... Ask me when my roommates are using Soulseek! Things can get /much/ slower than dial-up. Steve -- http://mrclay.org/ : http://frenchhorns.mrclay.org/ __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
Re: [css-d] At what point does it become more beneficial to use CSS?
On 9/17/05, Rick Faircloth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, I just wonder...at what point does it become more desirable to use CSS as opposed to tables? Aren't tables more compatible? No - as soon as you try to allow any sort of flexibility into a table-based design you discover that the html specs allow multiple table sizing/rendering algorithms and that the browser vendors exploit this freedom to gain advantages such as render speed. Trying to make flexible tables consistent cross-browser is every bit as frustrating as css bugs can be. For me, one of the complelling arguments for css is SEO. Search engines like quality content early in the source. Many sites which have 800 lines of HTML (I've seen as many as 2000+) to lay out the top headers and left-navigation before the content starts would rank much higher if the content started on line 43. -- Richard Grevers New Plymouth, New Zealand Orphan Gmail invites free to good homes. __ css-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/
