Re: [css-d] container div doesn't grow to hold images

[Ingo Chao]

Ivar van Duuren wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> I have a problem with a page of a personal page.
> The url is this: http://www.gritter.org/trouwen/pics.html
> 
> As you'll see, the pictures are not contained by their parent div.
> To me it looks like they float but in the css they're not defined as
> floating...
> 
> Could anyone tell us what the problem could be?
> 
> Thanks!
>   Ivar
>  **

Took a while for me to see where the float for the images is defined. 
Then, Webkit's Web Inspector said it's the img[align="left"] attribute 
that makes the float, a browser default.

Interesting, because Fx Dom Inspector gives no clue where it is defined, 
just states in "computed styles" that it is a float, if I am not 
overlooking something.

And Opera8 and 9 align these images horizontally. Is this correct? Maybe 
the align=left should be deleted.

Anyway, the reason for joining this thread is:

Congratulations, Ivar! Best wishes!

Ingo

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Re: [css-d] CSS validation question

[francky]

Ingo Chao wrote:

>francky wrote:
>  
>
>>The css-validator loves to see pairs 
>>of colors and background colors. ... The ratio of this is in short: be aware 
>>that the
>>contrast between the letter colors and the background is enough for 
>>accessibility at each level. 
>>
>>
>Jukka "Yucca" Korpela wrote an excellent expertise
>
>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-validator-css/2006Feb/0039.html
>
>why this is not only an accessibility question. [...]
>  
>
True; for safety, I added "in short" ;-) 
Should have said: "for usability and accessibility". - Good article!

Greetings,
francky
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Re: [css-d] Internal Anchor Tag Breaks Layout in FF

[David Laakso]

Amaryllia Liu wrote:
> I started learning CSS a few months ago so I'm still very much a beginner at
> this.
I've been doing it for a little bit longer, and trust me when I say I am 
a beginner, too..
>  The problem I'm having can be see at
> http://www.erotophilia.com/July2006/brokenlayout.html
>
> When any of the anchor links on top are clicked, the page layout breaks in
> FF, but seems to work find in IE. This is a fairly simple page
Well, as a friend reminded me a couple of days ago when I ran into a 
mind boggling(for me) css problem: keep it simple.
>  so I'm hoping
> the problem is also a simple fix. I would greatly appreciate any help or
> suggestions in how to debug this.
>
> Thanks!
> ~Amy
>   
I think Georg Sortun summed up the situation you are facing.. Best I can 
do is suggest that  you let the information flow, rather than attempting 
to control and constrain it. The software(the browsers, I mean) are 
pretty darn good at laying down stuff nicely -- providing you do not 
restrain them -- best to let them do their thing. I find it is far 
easier to just work with text. Laying out with images is always 
problematic. The Web is fluid. Ignore that and she'll make you dread the 
day you were born. So anyway, this is nothing to write home about, just 
a quick example of a direction you could take:
 .
Best,
~dL
PS Cursory tested only in xp.

-- 

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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Ingo Chao]

Yehuda Katz wrote:
> Essentially, I created a set of CSS Formatting guidelines designed to get
> designers to create readable CSS that other designers could quickly get up
> to speed on.
> 
> The "spec" is available in PDF form at
> http://www.yehudakatz.com/CSSf-1-5-1-Spec.pdf.
> 

"The purpose of the CSSf specification is to provide a standard way to 
write CSS that will be consistent and readable."


"b. Use
overflow: auto or overflow: hidden, not clearing elements, to clear
floats where possible."

I do not see why a specification that is about readability tries to 
prescribe what technique I should use, even if the author of the 
specification possesses evidence that he knows the best technique, which 
would be a separate discussion. This is not about formatting.

Ingo

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[css-d] IE7 and min- max- width/height

[old9]

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=IE7
here is the list of css bugs and improvements of IE7 betas, but in the
"min-height, max-height, min-width, max-width" section, it's said that
IE7 does not support those properties. I made my test, IE7 does not
support those properties in quirks mode but DOES support them in
standards compliance mode.

Can anyone make a fix to that page?
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[css-d] Noob diving in at the deep end.....

[David O'Neill]

Hey one and all,

I was directed to this list by a friend of mine in relation to css.

As the topic says I am a complete noob and am only aware really of css
through using Dreamweaver 8, I am currently taking on to redesign a friends
website ( www.amici-noctis.net ) and was wondering if you good people can
help me with a centering issue.

I have 3 main sections of the index.html page as can bee seen on the page
itself, at the moment I have used basic java script to do mouse overs for
each section, but I am not happy with this as there is a lot of flickering
when the mouse moves between divs. But this is a css list and not a java one
so i will seek a remedy to that elsewhere (",) I would like to center  the
sections both vertically and horizontally, though primarily on the
horizontal plane.

Can anybody tell me how to do this please.

Thanks a million
Dave

-- 
"Depth In Two Dimensions"
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Re: [css-d] container div doesn't grow to hold images

[francky]

Ingo Chao wrote:

>[...]
>And Opera8 and 9 align these images horizontally. Is this correct? Maybe 
>the align=left should be deleted.
>
>Anyway, the reason for joining this thread is:
>
>Congratulations, Ivar! Best wishes!
>
>Ingo
>  
>
Hi Ivar,
Deleting the align="left" in the html helps. But it is not the only 
thing. The html-validator is protesting at some points too, and regular 
browsers (the not IE) don't extend the wrapper around the images. 
Solution can be a clearing div at the end of the wrapper, combined with 
a "faux column" background image to get the color in the whole left column.

- I can imagine you want to show the photo's as soon as possible to 
family and friends (Felicitations to your both! :-) ), so I made a quick 
model with the most important things.
Here is a testpage 
!

This moment I don't have the time to explain, but some comments are in 
the source code.

Cheers! (zo'n relaxed glaasje wijn ziet er goed uit ;-) )
francky


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[css-d] Rounded corners problem on Mac OSX FF

[Dan Searle]

Hi list,

I don't have access to a Mac to debug this myself, I was wondering if 
someone on the list might be able to explain what was happening here?

http://www.danwashere.com/dev/aauk/celeb_blackboard/index.html

I'm told that on the rounded corner in the bottom right of the large white 
text box is being interfered with by what appears to be a white border 
stretching down.

I'm not seeing that problem on Win XP, FF1.5, IE5, IE5.5 or IE6 - they all 
show the page fine.

Here's the CSS that I think is relevant - but of course I'm not sure what's 
actually causing this problem so it could be anything I guess..

#text_block_wrapper_1 {
 float: left;
 margin:0px;
 padding:0px;
 width: 260px;
 background: transparent url(images/text_block_middle.gif) left top 
repeat-y;
}

#text_block_wrapper_2 {
 float: left;
 margin:0px;
 padding:0px;
 width: 260px;
 background: transparent url(images/text_block_top.gif) left top no-repeat;
}

#text_block {
 float: left;
 margin:0px;
 padding:12px;
 padding-top:16px;
 padding-bottom:16px;
 font-size: 0.8em;
 background: transparent url(images/text_block_bottom.gif) left bottom 
no-repeat;
}

#text_block p {
 margin:0px;
 padding:0px;
 margin-bottom: 0.8em;
}


As you can see I've achieved the rounded corners by having a fixed width 
column defined by 3 nested DIVS - the lowest div has a background of 260 x 1 
px gif to define the sides of the column, then the next DIV has a bg image 
of the top of the rounded corner rectangle, and the last one holds the 
bottom image of the block.

Thanks for any help,
Dan. 

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Re: [css-d] Noob diving in at the deep end.....

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

David O'Neill wrote:

> I was directed to this list by a friend of mine in relation to css.

You have come to the right place for css-issues :-)

> www.amici-noctis.net

> [...] I would like to center  the sections both vertically and 
> horizontally, though primarily on the horizontal plane.

You have a few options, but I'll suggest the following as the
simplest/safest one.

Add a container div that'll surround everything inside body, and style
it for horizontal centering.

HTML:

 



.




CSS:

#container {
width: 790px;
margin: 0 auto;
position: relative;
text-align: left;
}

...and add the following for older IE/win...

body {
text-align: center;
}

That will take care of centering across browser-land.


Regarding the 'show/hide' on that page: it fails miserably when
subjected to any degree of font-resizing in any and all browsers.
Overlapping-effects are unavoidable, so you should test a bit more.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] Noob diving in at the deep end.....

[Christian Heilmann]

> > I was directed to this list by a friend of mine in relation to css.
>
> You have come to the right place for css-issues :-)

,,, but you could have bothered to read the list policies[1] and used
a subject that describes the issue and represents a valid question or
statement and not your swimming habits - although the weather makes it
relevant.

God I hate the word n00b

[1] http://www.css-discuss.org/policies.html
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Re: [css-d] Three column div

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Aaron Gray wrote:
>> Aaron Gray wrote:
>> 
>>> Is it possible to have a three column layout with fixed width left and 
>>> right columns , and variable width center column, WITH a minimum width, 
>>> using div's ?
>>>
>>> Or can the minimum width center column only be done with tables.
>>>
>>> If it is possible could you give me an example, or example code please.
>>>
>>>   
>> If I understand correctly, one way you might accomplish this is to use
>> the 3column layout on this
>> page . Once you
>> have that working cross-browser(including IE), wrap the /entire/ layout
>> in another wrapper, called #whatever and assign a min/max width to it,
>> like so:
>> #whatever { max-width: 1200px; min-width: 550px; width: 99%;  margin: 0
>> auto;}.
>> Get that working in compliant browsers. Providing that there are no
>> other glitches, getting IE to cooperate with min/max width is not
>> difficult. Write the list on how to do this, but only after all other
>> cross-browser issues are resolved.
>> 
>
> Sorry, but I don't think that will work :(
>   

Can I ask why not? It will work just fine. The type of layout you are 
asking for is quite easy and can be done several different ways. Don't 
be afraid to try it out. If you're new to CSS, I recommend you not jump 
into a negative margin layout just yet, but you could easily do a float 
layout:

- Float one div left
- Float one div right
- Give middle div matching left and right margins
- Wrap all divs in a container with a minimum and maximum width applied

That's all it takes. Some tweaking necessary for IE, probably, and when 
you start adding in graphics, but the basic structure can be in place in 
five minutes.

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] Rounded corners problem on Mac OSX FF

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Dan Searle wrote:
> http://www.danwashere.com/dev/aauk/celeb_blackboard/index.html

> I'm told that on the rounded corner in the bottom right of the large 
> white text box is being interfered with by what appears to be a white
>  border stretching down.

> I'm not seeing that problem on Win XP, FF1.5, IE5, IE5.5 or IE6 - 
> they all show the page fine.

It becomes visible in Firefox 1.5.0.4 on a PC too, if/when you bump up
font-sizes step by step. Probably a rounding-error caused by Firefox'
over-precise calculations.

Probably best solved by making the side/corner elements a px or two
wider - fine-tune them - and make them overlap / cover up for such
errors. That won't hurt in other browser either, as there's a (barely)
visible red line down the right side of that white container in all of
them - resulting from image-smoothing or something in the image itself.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] Rounded corners problem on Mac OSX FF

[tedd]

>Hi list,
>
>I don't have access to a Mac to debug this myself, I was wondering if
>someone on the list might be able to explain what was happening here?
>
>http://www.danwashere.com/dev/aauk/celeb_blackboard/index.html
>
>I'm told that on the rounded corner in the bottom right of the large white
>text box is being interfered with by what appears to be a white border
>stretching down.

Dan:

It looks fine to me -- in fact, one of the best rounded corner examples I've 
seen.

Good work.

tedd
-- 

http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
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Re: [css-d] Rounded corners problem on Mac OSX FF

[francky]

Dan Searle wrote:

>Hi list,
>
>I don't have access to a Mac to debug this myself, I was wondering if 
>someone on the list might be able to explain what was happening here?
>
>http://www.danwashere.com/dev/aauk/celeb_blackboard/index.html
>
>I'm told that on the rounded corner in the bottom right of the large white 
>text box is being interfered with by what appears to be a white border 
>stretching down.
>
>I'm not seeing that problem on Win XP, FF1.5, IE5, IE5.5 or IE6 - they all 
>show the page fine.
>
>Here's the CSS [...]
>  
>
Hi Dan,
I can see the problem in IE6 on Win(98SE) too: screenshot-1 
.
and in FF1.07 on pc: screenshot-2 

It is not a white border, but the inside image of the box peeping 
through, as can be seen by canceling the "text_block_middle.gif" > 
screenshot-3 
.
Seems to be the floating of the inside wrappers (which you don't need): 
screenshot-4 
.

Greetings,
francky

btw: other technique for rounded corners, just to compare: liquidcorners 
.

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Re: [css-d] CSS validation question

[Jan Brasna]

> why this is not only an accessibility question.

It's more a reminder than anything else. The "validator" (a "syntax 
checker" would be better?) has no idea about you cascade and CSS 
inheritance in the particular document so it advises you to add more 
maybe even duplicate values to just satisfy its weird guesswork.

-- 
Jan Brasna :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com | www.wdnews.net
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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Yehuda Katz]

Sure it is. Adding clearing elements, and the ensuing additional CSS (or
extra clearing markup), makes code less readable for, in most cases, no good
reason. Since overflow: hidden or overflow: auto does the trick, the whole
issue of clearing floats becomes essentially a non-issue, and saves extra
markup.

On 7/17/06, Ingo Chao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yehuda Katz wrote:
> > Essentially, I created a set of CSS Formatting guidelines designed to
> get
> > designers to create readable CSS that other designers could quickly get
> up
> > to speed on.
> >
> > The "spec" is available in PDF form at
> > http://www.yehudakatz.com/CSSf-1-5-1-Spec.pdf.
> >
>
> "The purpose of the CSSf specification is to provide a standard way to
> write CSS that will be consistent and readable."
>
>
> "b. Use
> overflow: auto or overflow: hidden, not clearing elements, to clear
> floats where possible."
>
> I do not see why a specification that is about readability tries to
> prescribe what technique I should use, even if the author of the
> specification possesses evidence that he knows the best technique, which
> would be a separate discussion. This is not about formatting.
>
> Ingo
>
> --
> http://www.satzansatz.de/css.html
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>



-- 
Yehuda Katz
Web Developer
(ph)  718.877.1325
(fax) 718.686.4288
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[css-d] display-inline not working in Firefox

[Marlene T. Yogerst]

I am trying to get the top navigation to display inline (horizontal).  I 
can get it to work in Netscape and IE; however, Firefox will only 
display it vertically.  Does anyone know a work around to get the 
display horizontal in Firefox?

Here is the site:  www.roughandreadydesigns.com/test/index.shtml

Here is the stylesheet:  www.roughandreadydesigns.com/test/main_setup.css

Thanks in advance for any help given.
marlene

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Re: [css-d] display-inline not working in Firefox

[Dave Goodchild]

On 17/07/06, Marlene T. Yogerst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I am trying to get the top navigation to display inline (horizontal).  I
> can get it to work in Netscape and IE; however, Firefox will only
> display it vertically.  Does anyone know a work around to get the
> display horizontal in Firefox?
>
> Here is the site:  www.roughandreadydesigns.com/test/index.shtml
>
> Here is the stylesheet:  www.roughandreadydesigns.com/test/main_setup.css
>
> Thanks in advance for any help given.
> marlene
>
> First off, the site does not validate as html - fix that first. Second,
> you have two body elements in the page - step1 will require that to be
> amended, you should only every have one body element.
>



-- 
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http://www.projectkarma.co.uk
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[css-d] (no subject)

[Vic Rauch]

I don't know what I changed, but the fly-out menu stopped working. 
 
Here is the site. 
 
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. 
 
Thanks, 
Vic
 
 
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[css-d] Fly-out has stopped working

[Vic Rauch]

I don't know what I changed, but the fly-out menu stopped working. 
 
Here is the site
http://www.ggshows.com/WIP-Testing/DisplayPage.asp?page=home
 &pagetitle=Home  
 
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. 
 
Thanks, 
Vic
 
 
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Re: [css-d] Rounded corners problem on Mac OSX FF

[francky]

francky wrote:

>[...]
>  
>
... or the easy way! 


:-)
francky
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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Tom Livingston]

> Sure it is. Adding clearing elements, and the ensuing additional CSS (or
> extra clearing markup), makes code less readable for, in most cases, no good
> reason. Since overflow: hidden or overflow: auto does the trick, the whole
> issue of clearing floats becomes essentially a non-issue, and saves extra
> markup.
>

Hold on.

Adding overflow:auto; on a container will clear any and all floats
inside said container all by itself!?!? Cross-browser??!! And PIE's
Easy Clearing is 'so last year' too?!? Where have I been???

-- 


Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] Rounded corners problem on Mac OSX FF

[Dan Searle]

From: "francky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hi Dan,
> I can see the problem in IE6 on Win(98SE) too: screenshot-1
> .
> and in FF1.07 on pc: screenshot-2
> 
> It is not a white border, but the inside image of the box peeping
> through, as can be seen by canceling the "text_block_middle.gif" >
> screenshot-3
> .
> Seems to be the floating of the inside wrappers (which you don't need):
> screenshot-4
> .
>
> Greetings,
> francky

Hi Francky - thanks for the help and those screenshots, that's great.
I managed to reproduce the error here which is always a good start to 
debugging, and
then removed the float:left; on the text_block.
I've ironed out a few other problems that crept in but I think now it's 
working fine.

http://www.danwashere.com/dev/aauk/celeb_blackboard/index.html

Tell me if it isn't?


> btw: other technique for rounded corners, just to compare: liquidcorners
> .

Very good - it looks very thorough. I prefer to try to tailor the solution 
to the problem rather
than attempt a jack of all trades myself - but it's all good.

Oh, and I've just seen your mail with your example with my graphics :-) very 
generous
of you to spend that time.

**Can I ask you though that you replace that text with some Lorem Ipsum? ** 
I've got myself
into trouble using this list with live content before when it got indexed by 
Google and my test
page came up in searches along with the real site URL - the client wasn't 
happy.
Yes, I shouldn't have used live content this time either... but I'll be 
removing these pages once
I'm happy they work.

Thanks to the others who commented and/or helped too!

Cheers,
Dan

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Re: [css-d] display-inline not working in Firefox

[David Laakso]

Marlene T. Yogerst wrote:
> I am trying to get the top navigation to display inline (horizontal).  I 
> can get it to work in Netscape and IE; however, Firefox will only 
> display it vertically.  Does anyone know a work around to get the 
> display horizontal in Firefox?
>
> Here is the site:  www.roughandreadydesigns.com/test/index.shtml
>
> Here is the stylesheet:  www.roughandreadydesigns.com/test/main_setup.css
>
> Thanks in advance for any help given.
> marlene
Marlene,
You might amend this ruleset and see if it helps:
.text{position:/*absolute*/relative;   font-family: 
/*"Visitor -BRK-", Verdana, Arial, Helvetica,*/ sans-serif,; 
/*font-size:smaller;*/   }
And validate your css and markup.
Better yet, use another layout that does not employ absolute 
positioning. That often is problematic for setting up a base layout, and 
it may make for difficulty further down the road
Regards,
~dL

-- 

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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Robert O'Rourke]

Tom Livingston wrote:
>> Sure it is. Adding clearing elements, and the ensuing additional CSS (or
>> extra clearing markup), makes code less readable for, in most cases, no good
>> reason. Since overflow: hidden or overflow: auto does the trick, the whole
>> issue of clearing floats becomes essentially a non-issue, and saves extra
>> markup.
>>
>> 
>
> Hold on.
>
> Adding overflow:auto; on a container will clear any and all floats
> inside said container all by itself!?!? Cross-browser??!! And PIE's
> Easy Clearing is 'so last year' too?!? Where have I been???
>
>   
same place as me i guess!
I thought overflow wasn't a good cross-browser solution either.. ah 
well, everyday's a school day.

As for this CSSf thing I can see it being useful for those new to CSS as 
a learning aid but its not going to work as a specification. 
/Formatting/ CSS is all down to your personal preference, the important 
thing is making use of sensible and semantic id names and class names 
etc.. If another developer can find the bits they're looking for easily 
they could then just use their own text editor to format it how they 
want if it's so important.

Guidelines and specs are two different things, CSSf is the former.

Rob
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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Alex Foley]

I'd sure like a confirmation from someone that overflow: auto is the way 
to go... I've been clearfix-ing up until about 12:03 pm today.

Alex Foley

Robert O'Rourke wrote:
> Tom Livingston wrote:
>   
>> Hold on.
>>
>> Adding overflow:auto; on a container will clear any and all floats
>> inside said container all by itself!?!? Cross-browser??!! And PIE's
>> Easy Clearing is 'so last year' too?!? Where have I been???
>> 
> same place as me i guess!
> I thought overflow wasn't a good cross-browser solution either.. ah 
> well, everyday's a school day.
>   

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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Donna Casey]

Alex Foley wrote:
> I'd sure like a confirmation from someone that overflow: auto is the way 
> to go... I've been clearfix-ing up until about 12:03 pm today.

Zoe's excellent (free) article explains much of this:

http://communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=6BC9D

A great read!

thanks, Zoe!

Donna Casey
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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Robert O'Rourke]

Alex Foley wrote:
> I'd sure like a confirmation from someone that overflow: auto is the way 
> to go... I've been clearfix-ing up until about 12:03 pm today.
>
>
>   

Here we go:

http://dev.l-c-n.com/IEW/containing-float-overflow.php

It's not as consistent as clear-fixing but in general using overflow : 
hidden ; on divs will work. IE <=6 needs a hasLayout trigger too.

Happy days =]
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[css-d] easy question about centering my design on the page in css

[juliann wheeler]

You can view my design at:

http://www.agentevaluator.com/juliann/brown/indexbrown.html

How do I get this to center on the page?

thanks!


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Re: [css-d] easy question about centering my design on the page in css

[Alex Foley]

You could add a containing element around all of the s, say



And then set the left and right margins to auto:

div#container {
margin: 0 auto;
}

Alex Foley

juliann wheeler wrote:
> You can view my design at:
>
> http://www.agentevaluator.com/juliann/brown/indexbrown.html
>
> How do I get this to center on the page?
>
> thanks!
>
>
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[css-d] Pixy rollover inconsistency in IE/Win

[Jacob Reiff]

css-d:

The site I'm having an issue with: http://tinyurl.com/op5fx

I used the Pixy Fast Rollovers [1] method as a starting point, with  
the IE/Win update.

The problem is that when you are on the Home/Services (they're the  
same thing) page, the Services / About rollovers work fine in IE6/ 
Win, with no flashing.

When you're on the About page though, the Services / About rollovers  
flash briefly as they change colors.

I've been staring at the code for a few hours now and can't find the  
difference between the two -- they look like the same code to me!

I really appreciate the help if anybody has a clue why it's flashing  
on one page, but not on the other and how I can get it to stop flashing.

[1] http://wellstyled.com/css-nopreload-rollovers.html

Thanks!
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Re: [css-d] easy question about centering my design on the page in css

[Dave Goodchild]

On 17/07/06, Alex Foley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You could add a containing element around all of the s, say
>
> 
>
> And then set the left and right margins to auto:
>
> div#container {
> margin: 0 auto;
> }
>
> Alex Foley
>
> juliann wheeler wrote:
> > You can view my design at:
> >
> > http://www.agentevaluator.com/juliann/brown/indexbrown.html
> >
> > How do I get this to center on the page?
> >
> > thanks!
> >


Not as simple as the previous comment. It will work, but you need to set
text-align: center on the container and text-align: left on the child
container to appease IE. This is a hack, so a better approach in my opinion
is to use this:

#wrapper {
position: relative;
left: 50%;
width: (whatever)
margin-left: -(half of whatever)
}




-- 
http://www.web-buddha.co.uk
http://www.projectkarma.co.uk
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Re: [css-d] easy question about centering my design on the page in css

[Robert O'Rourke]

juliann wheeler wrote:
> You can view my design at:
>
> http://www.agentevaluator.com/juliann/brown/indexbrown.html
>
> How do I get this to center on the page?
>
> thanks!
>   

It's a bit tricky when everything is absolutely positioned like that. 
You could produce the same layout with floats and normal text instead of 
images. I tried resizing the text and all that happens is the right hand 
column text starts to move down and disappears behind the div #layer9.

In the meantime change all those left : 25px; declarations on each layer 
div to left : 0 ; and add this div in your markup:



...everything that's currently within the  tags goes in here...




and then add this to your css:

#wrapper {

position: relative;   /* absolutely positioned blocks will be positioned 
relatively to this */

width: 750px; /* important for the margin auto declaration to work 
*/

margin: 0 auto;   /* the auto bit achieves the centering */

}


That should do it but it's not reccommended to use position: absolute; 
for the layout.so extensively. Google around for some float layout 
tutorials then if you get stuck there's always this list.

Hope this helps,
Rob
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Re: [css-d] easy question about centering my design on the page in css

[David Laakso]

juliann wheeler wrote:
> You can view my design at:
>
> http://www.agentevaluator.com/juliann/brown/indexbrown.html
>
> How do I get this to center on the page?
>
> thanks!
>
>   
Juliann,
See the wiki 
 , 
/particularly/ the example under "Centering with auto-margins."
Regards,
~dL
PS Have you ever viewed your page with images disabled :-P ?

-- 

http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ca/ccs/pow/pow.html

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[css-d] ie7b3 text-indent

[David Laakso]

In this page  , xp ie6 renders the 
right column p text-indent correctly. However, ie7b3 standalone(on my 
end), and ie7b2 (browsercam) approximately double the p text-indent. Is 
this doubling of a specified text-indent a known ie7 issue?

Captures:
xp ie6.0 (pass):

ie7b3 standalone (fail):

ie7b2 browsercam (fail):

Thanks.
~dL

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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[cj]

On 7/17/06, Yehuda Katz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sure it is. Adding clearing elements, and the ensuing additional CSS (or
> extra clearing markup), makes code less readable for, in most cases, no good
> reason. Since overflow: hidden or overflow: auto does the trick, the whole
> issue of clearing floats becomes essentially a non-issue, and saves extra
> markup.

i personally would rather not have scrollbars appear or things
disappear on elements with width or height.  I prefer using option #2
in the wiki (http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ClearingSpace),
which doesn't add additional markup, either, and perhaps should be
mentioned in your version of a guideline.
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[css-d] adding ALT text to a CSS - background-image

[Maciejewski, James]

We are adding ALT text to all of our images. We have a few images that
are linked from our CSS for notes, tips, warnings, etc. 
 
The code looks like this:
background-image: url(folder/image.gif);
 
Is it possible to add ALT text to this?
 
Thanks!
Jim
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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Yehuda Katz wrote:
> Sure it is. Adding clearing elements, and the ensuing additional CSS 
> (or extra clearing markup), makes code less readable for, in most 
> cases, no good reason. Since overflow: hidden or overflow: auto does 
> the trick, the whole issue of clearing floats becomes essentially a 
> non-issue, and saves extra markup.

If you say so :-)

Now, how do you "half-clear" a float (parts of it hanging over the lower
edge of a container, and maybe over the side-edges too) in a
cross-browser reliable way by using the overflow-property?

The above is not a "trick-question". I use such design-methods quite
often, and the overflow-property doesn't cut it across browser-land.

>>> 

I'll point out that such a "specification" acts as a restriction on
what can be done, and will only serve a purpose where such restrictions
are accepted/acceptable/wanted. Within such a framework I guess /any/
specification is ok, but I certainly won't work under such restrictions.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] adding ALT text to a CSS - background-image

[Brian Cummiskey]

On 7/17/06, Maciejewski, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is it possible to add ALT text to this?

No (at least not directly)

If the image is presentational, it should be in the background with no alt
if the image is content, it should be in img tags, and properly alt'ed.
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Re: [css-d] adding ALT text to a CSS - background-image

[cj]

On 7/17/06, Maciejewski, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We are adding ALT text to all of our images. We have a few images that
> are linked from our CSS for notes, tips, warnings, etc.
>
> The code looks like this:
> background-image: url(folder/image.gif);
>
> Is it possible to add ALT text to this?

no help from me (sorry!), but i do have a question.  if the image is
important enough to warrant alt text, why is it a background image
instead of part of the markup of the page?  keep in mind that
background images do not have nearly the same importance as images
placed in the markup as part of the actual page.  for example,
backgrounds aren't, by default, printed.
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Re: [css-d] adding ALT text to a CSS - background-image

[Nick Fitzsimons]

Maciejewski, James wrote:
> We are adding ALT text to all of our images. We have a few images that
> are linked from our CSS for notes, tips, warnings, etc. 
>  
> The code looks like this:
> background-image: url(folder/image.gif);
>  
> Is it possible to add ALT text to this?
>  

No, but nor should it be necessary.

If the images are purely presentational in nature (a textured 
background, a fancy bullet on a list, etc.) then they should be applied 
via CSS as above; as they have no semantic value there is no need, and 
no mechanism, for specifying an alt attribute.

If the images have semantic value (e.g. an error icon indicating a form 
field in need of a value) then it is not correct to apply it with CSS: 
it is part of the content of the page, and should be in the HTML as an 
img element with an alt attribute.

Accessibility expert Derek Featherstone explains this well in an article at:


HTH,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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Re: [css-d] adding ALT text to a CSS - background-image

[Christian Heilmann]

> On 7/17/06, Maciejewski, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is it possible to add ALT text to this?
>
> No (at least not directly)
>
> If the image is presentational, it should be in the background with no alt
> if the image is content, it should be in img tags, and properly alt'ed.

100% ack on that.

And just out of curiousity: What is so hard about saying "should be
IMG elements with proper alt attributes" or "should be images in the
HTML with proper alternative text". If we keep on talking about "alt
tags" or "alt-ing images" we'll keep it that mythical geek thing a lot
of content editors think adding alternative text is. It is a simple
editorial task, and the one responsible for creating the markup -
which could be a CMS simply adds the text in an alt attribute. Let's
get those alternative texts out of the closet... Alternative text is
not a technical issue, it is an integral part of the content of a web
page.

-- 
Chris Heilmann
Book: http://www.beginningjavascript.com
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
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Re: [css-d] Three column div

[Aaron Gray]

> be afraid to try it out. If you're new to CSS, I recommend you not jump
> into a negative margin layout just yet, but you could easily do a float
> layout:
>
> - Float one div left
> - Float one div right
> - Give middle div matching left and right margins
> - Wrap all divs in a container with a minimum and maximum width applied
>
> That's all it takes. Some tweaking necessary for IE, probably, and when
> you start adding in graphics, but the basic structure can be in place in
> five minutes.

Okay, I have spent several hours trying to get this to work, and still 
cannot get the right floating div not to hang over on the next line.

Here's what I have got :-

http://angray.members.beeb.net/Examples/CSS/ThreeColumnExample.html

The CSS is in the HTML.

It validates all except for the '<' in the JavaScript expression in the CSS. 
Also looks the same in FireFox as it does in Internet Explorer.

So I am stuck with the right floating div hanging down a line, in need of 
solving.

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

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Re: [css-d] adding ALT text to a CSS - background-image

[cj]

On 7/17/06, Maciejewski, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's a new standard to comply with handicap accessibility - we have to
> include ALT text for all images (this is for an online WebHelp system).
> But, you mentioned "important enough" that made me think...it makes
> since to exclude these as an exception to the rule, because they may not
> be that important...

perhaps if you have a page we can look at, you'd get suggestions or
comments directly related to your question.  my opinion, personally,
is that if you need alt text, it's a markup graphic.  i wouldn't think
blind people, for example, really care if you have a pink background
with blue lines through it or if your headers have a fading green
gradient behind them.

a few other replies so far echo the things i would have added, so i'll
let you read those instead of repeating.  :)
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Re: [css-d] Fly-out has stopped working

[Ian Kaplan]

Vic,

In your file: http://www.ggshows.com/WIP-Testing/css/css-flyout.css on
line 200 try getting rid of the extra declarations for your
background-image property and add them separately.  

Instead of:

background-image: url(images/arrow-right.gif) no-repeat 100% 50%;

try:

background-image: url(images/arrow-right.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat; 

etc.. etc..


might work, give it a shot.

Ian Kaplan
w e b   d e v e l o p e r
 
p 937.312.8964 |  f 937.439.7247  |  design forum  |  7575 paragon road
|  dayton, ohio 45459

-Original Message-
From: Vic Rauch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:22
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: [css-d] Fly-out has stopped working

I don't know what I changed, but the fly-out menu stopped working. 
 
Here is the site
http://www.ggshows.com/WIP-Testing/DisplayPage.asp?page=home
 &pagetitle=Home  
 
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. 
 
Thanks, 
Vic
 
 

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Re: [css-d] Fly-out has stopped working

[Ian Kaplan]

Vic,
Actually The problem is that on line 200 in your file:
http://www.ggshows.com/WIP-Testing/css-flyout.css you're declaring the
property "background-image" and adding extra parameters rather than
using "background"

Use:

background: url(images/arrow-right.gif) no-repeat 100% 50%;

rather than:

background-image: url(images/arrow-right.gif) no-repeat 100% 50%;

and it should clear itself up.


Ian Kaplan
w e b   d e v e l o p e r
 
p 937.312.8964 |  f 937.439.7247  |  design forum  |  7575 paragon road
|  dayton, ohio 45459

-Original Message-
From: Vic Rauch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:22
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: [css-d] Fly-out has stopped working

I don't know what I changed, but the fly-out menu stopped working. 
 
Here is the site
http://www.ggshows.com/WIP-Testing/DisplayPage.asp?page=home
 &pagetitle=Home  
 
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. 
 
Thanks, 
Vic
 
 

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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Tom Livingston]

>
> i personally would rather not have scrollbars appear or things
> disappear on elements with width or height.  I prefer using option #2
> in the wiki (http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ClearingSpace),
> which doesn't add additional markup, either
> 

I'm with CJ on this one, though I don't care about Mac IE anymore, and
would put the Win IE-specific stuff in a CC.

my 2¢ (and I now bow out of this up-and-coming Holy War)

-- 


Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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Re: [css-d] adding ALT text to a CSS - background-image

[MarcLuzietti]

On 7/17/06, Maciejewski, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's a new standard to comply with handicap accessibility - we have to
> include ALT text for all images (this is for an online WebHelp system).

Ah yes, policy created by people who get the letter of accessibility 
without understanding the meaning of accessibility. ;-)

Trust me, people with visual disabilities (or who simply have images 
turned off), don't want to know about EVERY image on the page. Nor are you 
required to tell them. ONLY those images which contain meaning need to be 
described, and those should be included in the HTML markup, not the CSS. 
Any IMG where you have an empty ALT attribute should be a CSS background 
instead.
For example: a logo as a title might need to be described; a logo as a 
background design element would not.

The point of accessibilty is to help others get the meaning and content of 
a page. That means you can't simply apply blanket rules, but need to 
understand what rules apply where, and not use accessibility rules to 
completely ruin real accessibility. In other words, you need to be aware 
of what you're doing and why you're doing it.

Back in the 90s, there were plenty of pages with table based layout with 
imgs contain ALT such as "This is the corner of the design" or "This is a 
spacer gif". Now, imagine having to hear that a few dozen times to get how 
that destroyed rather than enhanced accessibility.

CSS is definately a useful way to enhance accessibility, as it allows you 
to toss out a lot of HTML kruft, and reduce the HTML to structure and 
content. It makes it harder to overlook things, and easier to maintain an 
meaningful flow of the information.

P.S. If you're using the program, WebHelp, you may be biting off more than 
you can chew. It uses HUNDREDS of spacer gifs and tables for layout. It's 
definately a candidate for a total rewrite using CSS.

-- 
Marc Luzietti
Flagship Project
Bayview Financial, L.P.
(305) 341-5624
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[css-d] div breaking out of parent

[Matthew Bernhardt]

Hello everyone,
   I'm working on a simple two-column layout (one navigation, one content)  
with a masthead and footer - something I'm sure everyone's done before,  
but for some reason I'm having trouble with the content column breaking  
out of its parent div. I'd thought I was starting to understand more about  
CSS, but this issue has me flummoxed.

The page in question can be seen here:

http://support.knowlton.ohio-state.edu/ksa06/

CSS can be found by following the source as per usual - my specific  
question here concerns the "ksapage" div - which gets the solid white  
background and is supposed to contain all the other content. I put a  
height attribute on it so that no matter how much content there is within,  
it is at least a certain height. Then, when the "ksacontent" column grows  
longer than that, the ksapage is supposed to elongate to fit the new  
dimensions.

In the testing I've done, Opera 9 and IE 6 on Windows behave correctly.  
Firefox 1.5 on Windows does not, nor does Safari or Firefox on a Mac. I  
believe Opera 9 on the Mac behaves correctly. I haven't tried Netscape,  
nor anything on Linux (my test box is flaking out right now).

I know this is something silly - but for some reason I'm incapable of  
seeing what the problem is. Can anybody shed some light on this for me,  
please?

Thanks,
Matt

-- 
Matt Bernhardt, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webmaster  +  Fab  Lab  Coordinator
Knowlton  School   of  Architecture
TheOhio StateUniversity
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Re: [css-d] adding ALT text to a CSS - background-image

[cj]

[posting this reply back to the list.  remember when you reply, select
"reply to all" to send your response back to all the people who have
given advice.]

On 7/17/06, Maciejewski, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --i wouldn't think blind people, for example, really care if you have a
> pink background with blue lines through it or if your headers have a
> fading green gradient behind them.--
>
> Certainly not! I found this article that Nick mentioned to be very
> useful:
> 
> Our group is going to discuss it further, since the impact could be much
> greater that previously anticipated.
>
> Thanks for your help!
> Jim
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Re: [css-d] Three column div

[Zoe M. Gillenwater]

Aaron Gray wrote:
>> - Float one div left
>> - Float one div right
>> - Give middle div matching left and right margins
>> - Wrap all divs in a container with a minimum and maximum width applied
>>
>> That's all it takes. Some tweaking necessary for IE, probably, and when
>> you start adding in graphics, but the basic structure can be in place in
>> five minutes.
>> 
>
> Okay, I have spent several hours trying to get this to work, and still 
> cannot get the right floating div not to hang over on the next line.
>
> Here's what I have got :-
>
> http://angray.members.beeb.net/Examples/CSS/ThreeColumnExample.html
>   

Aaron,

The right div has to drop down because of the box model. Borders are 
added onto the declared width of a box, so your left and right divs each 
take up 202px of space, not 200px. You need the margins to match or 
exceed 202px. Alternately, remove the borders. Use backgrounds to 
troubleshoot instead of borders and you will be a much happier person. :-)

I recommend you become very familiar with the box model before you go 
further with your layout. Here's some recommended reading:
http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=BoxModel
http://www.brainjar.com/css/positioning/default.asp
http://www.communitymx.com/content/article.cfm?cid=E2F258C46D285FEE
http://www.communitymx.com/abstract.cfm?cid=A33F5

(Thanks for keeping the CSS in the HTML, by the way -- much easier to 
help that way.)

Zoe

-- 
Zoe M. Gillenwater
Design Services Manager
UNC Highway Safety Research Center
http://www.hsrc.unc.edu


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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[L. Robinson]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:
> Yehuda Katz wrote:
>> Since overflow: hidden or overflow: auto does 
>> the trick, the whole issue of clearing floats becomes essentially a 
>> non-issue, and saves extra markup.

> I use such design-methods quite
> often, and the overflow-property doesn't cut it across browser-land.
> 
> regards
>   Georg

Pardon my ignorance, but I am definitely missing something here. My CSS 
knowledge is nowhere near that of you gurus and overflow is something I 
haven't worked with much, so I'd just like to interject a really silly 
question here. (Sorry. Inquiring minds want to know...)

If overflow: auto or hidden is used merely to clear an element, what 
prevents the occasional chopping off of needed data (hidden) or the 
addition of nasty little scroll bars everywhere (auto) where one might 
not want them?

K. What is it I don't understand? :)

lr
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[css-d] Anchors and hidden overflow

[Marcelo Wolfgang]

Hi list,

Is it possible to move 2 's that has some content hidden by using
the overflow selector using html anchors ?

Like when click an link, the 2 div's respond to that click, moving itself ?

Please advice
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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[MarcLuzietti]

K. What is it I don't understand? :)

lr



You understand it correctly, actually.

-- 
Marc Luzietti
Flagship Project
Bayview Financial, L.P.
(305) 341-5624
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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Steve Axthelm]

On 2006-07-16, Yehuda Katz wrote:

> Essentially, I created a set of CSS Formatting guidelines designed to
> get designers to create readable CSS that other designers could
> quickly get up to speed on.
> 
> The "spec" is available in PDF form at
> http://www.yehudakatz.com/CSSf-1-5-1-Spec.pdf.

Regarding: "Convert six character codes to three character codes by
rounding."

Why on earth would you do that? There's no way the designers I work with
would find the color shift in the image below (your example, #c3b937 ->
#cc3) acceptable.




-Steve

-- 
Steve Axthelm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[css-d] ie7b3 :: text-indent

[~davidLaakso]

In this page  , xp ie6 renders the 
right column p text-indent correctly. However, ie7b3 standalone(on my 
end), and ie7b2 (browsercam) approximately double the p text-indent. Is 
this doubling of a specified text-indent a known ie7 issue?

Captures:
xp ie6.0 (pass):

ie7b3 standalone (fail):

ie7b2 browsercam (fail):

Thanks.
~dL
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Re: [css-d] div breaking out of parent

[Brodt, Christopher C.]

I think that the easiest thing that you could do is change the height in
your container element from em to %.  You may have to do a DOCTYPE
declaration to get IE out of quirks mode, which means that you might
have trouble with IE 5.  


Chris Brodt
University of Oklahoma
Libraries Systems
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew
Bernhardt
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 2:37 PM
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: [css-d] div breaking out of parent


http://support.knowlton.ohio-state.edu/ksa06/

CSS can be found by following the source as per usual - my specific  
question here concerns the "ksapage" div - which gets the solid white  
background and is supposed to contain all the other content. I put a  
height attribute on it so that no matter how much content there is
within,  
it is at least a certain height. Then, when the "ksacontent" column
grows  
longer than that, the ksapage is supposed to elongate to fit the new  
dimensions.

In the testing I've done, Opera 9 and IE 6 on Windows behave correctly.

Firefox 1.5 on Windows does not, nor does Safari or Firefox on a Mac. I

believe Opera 9 on the Mac behaves correctly. I haven't tried Netscape,

nor anything on Linux (my test box is flaking out right now).


Thanks,
Matt

-- 
Matt Bernhardt, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webmaster  +  Fab  Lab  Coordinator
Knowlton  School   of  Architecture
TheOhio StateUniversity
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Re: [css-d] Three column div

[David Laakso]

Aaron Gray wrote:
> Okay, I have spent several hours trying to get this to work, and still 
> cannot get the right floating div not to hang over on the next line.
>
> Here's what I have got :-
>
> http://angray.members.beeb.net/Examples/CSS/ThreeColumnExample.html
>
> The CSS is in the HTML.
>
> So I am stuck with the right floating div hanging down a line, in need of 
> solving.
> Aaron
Aaron,
As Zoe pointed out it is a box model problem-- the need to account for 
width issues in the various win/ie browsers. I would encourage you to 
follow Zoe's advice, and learn to cope with the box model.
As in any discipline, though, there alternative means and methods of 
solving problems. I prefer to put ie in quirksmode(the xml declaration 
above the doctype does that). It puts ie 5, 5.5, and 6.0 on a common 
playing field-- and, if you are careful, one can avoid dealing with the 
box model and related hacks-- not all the time, but at least some of the 
time. I am not necessarily saying this is a /better/ approach, but it is 
one that some of us employ on a fairly regular basis. This is an example 
of only one way your page might be set using that method: 
 .
Regards,
~dL

-- 

http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ca/ccs/pow/pow.html

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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

L. Robinson wrote:

> If overflow: auto or hidden is used merely to clear an element, what 
> prevents the occasional chopping off of needed data (hidden) or the 
> addition of nasty little scroll bars everywhere (auto) where one 
> might not want them?
> 
> K. What is it I don't understand? :)

Probably the part about 'Block formatting contexts'...


It does work well in many cases, as long as the container we declare
'overflow: hidden/auto' on also has a 'height: auto' (which is default).
Then the container will just grow as tall as it needs to be in order to
completely enclose/contain the floating elements, and the result is just
fine.

That is: unless some element (float or otherwise) is styled to appear
partly or completely outside the edge of the container. The
overflow-property will then cut off the overshooting part of such an
element, and the result will be just as you described.

So, the overflow-property is a useful solution for containing floats in
some cases, but not in others.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] div breaking out of parent

[Holly Bergevin]

From: "Matthew Bernhardt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>http://support.knowlton.ohio-state.edu/ksa06/

>question here concerns the "ksapage" div - which gets the solid white  
>background and is supposed to contain all the other content. I put a  
>height attribute on it so that no matter how much content there is within,  
>it is at least a certain height. Then, when the "ksacontent" column grows  
>longer than that, the ksapage is supposed to elongate to fit the new  
>dimensions.
>
>In the testing I've done, Opera 9 and IE 6 on Windows behave correctly.  
>Firefox 1.5 on Windows does not, nor does Safari or Firefox on a Mac. I  
>believe Opera 9 on the Mac behaves correctly. 

Matt,

Opera and IE are not behaving correctly according to the specs, whereas FF and 
Safari, regardless of the platform, are. Auto-expanding of elements by ignoring 
set heights is an "IE thing," generally.

Change {height: 37.5em;} to {min-height: 37.5em;} for #ksapage (for good 
browsers) and use your choice of hiding methods to give IE the height you need 
it to have.

I hope that helps, 

~holly  
 
   
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Re: [css-d] div breaking out of parent

[David Laakso]

Holly Bergevin wrote:
> From: "Matthew Bernhardt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>   
>> http://support.knowlton.ohio-state.edu/ksa06/
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>
> Matt,
>
> Opera and IE are not behaving correctly according to the specs, whereas FF 
> and Safari, regardless of the platform, are. Auto-expanding of elements by 
> ignoring set heights is an "IE thing," generally.
>
> Change {height: 37.5em;} to {min-height: 37.5em;} for #ksapage (for good 
> browsers) and use your choice of hiding methods to give IE the height you 
> need it to have.
>
> I hope that helps, 
>
> ~holly 
>
>
>   
And a doctype would be a nice touch :-) . Tidy Online will assign one 
for you:.
Best,
~dL


-- 

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[css-d] css collapsible box

[mindy]

Hey all,

I'm looking for a Css driven collapsible (looking) box for content. Any
suggestions?

Thanks!
~Mindy
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Re: [css-d] ie7b3 :: text-indent

[Bruno Fassino]

~davidLaakso wrote:

> In this page  , xp ie6
> renders the right column p text-indent correctly.
> However, ie7b3 standalone(on my
> end), and ie7b2 (browsercam) approximately double the p
> text-indent. Is
> this doubling of a specified text-indent a known ie7 issue?
>
> Captures:
> xp ie6.0 (pass):
> 
> ie7b3 standalone (fail):
> 
> ie7b2 browsercam (fail):
> 


I've never seen this problem before, don't know if it is known, anyway it is
not limited to IE7 beta. It occurs in IE6 as well, but only in "standards"
mode.
Your page put IE6 in quirks mode, but not IE7, so the problem is only
triggered for IE7 in your page.
The problem looks in part similar to the quirky percentages one [1].
Under some conditions it seems that a percentage text-indent is computed
based on the width of an ancestor instead of on the width of the parent
element.
I haven't checked the details, but just created a simple test case [2], with
few nested wrappers. It seems that the simple addition of hasLayout on the
box having text-indent fixes the problem. You could try hasLayout on your
 or some other wrappers (not tested.)

> Thanks.
> ~dL
Best,
Bruno


[1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/percentages.html
[2] http://www.brunildo.org/test/iew_perc_text_indent.html

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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting - overflow for clearing floats

[Robert O'Rourke]

> So, the overflow-property is a useful solution for containing floats in
> some cases, but not in others.
>
> regards
>   Georg
>   

Good to know,

Does a floated element within a container that has overflow : hidden ; 
applied respect the padding of the container? In particular the bottom 
padding, and also are there any cross-browser differences in this 
instance? (apart from the usual =P )

Cheers,
Rob
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[css-d] problems in Explorer

[Magenta Placenta]

http://www.matthickerson.com/
http://www.matthickerson.com/stylesheet.css

In Explorer, at the bottom, "here." html text is being repeated/carried over 
from the tail end of the right column.  I'm guessing this is being caused by 
my  tags.

Page looks fine in Mozilla, but if I remove those  the 
white background color doesn't span the height.  How should I be clearing 
divs so proper margin/paddings are observed?


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Re: [css-d] problems in Explorer

[francky]

Magenta Placenta wrote:

>http://www.matthickerson.com/
>http://www.matthickerson.com/stylesheet.css
>
>In Explorer, at the bottom, "here." html text is being repeated/carried over 
>from the tail end of the right column.  I'm guessing this is being caused by 
>my  tags.
>
>Page looks fine in Mozilla, but if I remove those  the 
>white background color doesn't span the height.  How should I be clearing 
>divs so proper margin/paddings are observed?
>
Hi Magenta,
Looks like IE's Duplicate Characters Bug:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/dup-characters.html

Greetings,
francky
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Re: [css-d] ie7b3 :: text-indent

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jul 18, 2006, at 8:02 AM, Bruno Fassino wrote:

>> In this page  , xp ie6
>> renders the right column p text-indent correctly.
>> However, ie7b3 standalone(on my
>> end), and ie7b2 (browsercam) approximately double the p
>> text-indent. Is
>> this doubling of a specified text-indent a known ie7 issue?
>>
>> Captures:
>> xp ie6.0 (pass):
>> 
>> ie7b3 standalone (fail):
>> 
>> ie7b2 browsercam (fail):
>> 
>
>
> I've never seen this problem before, don't know if it is known,  
> anyway it is
> not limited to IE7 beta. It occurs in IE6 as well, but only in  
> "standards"
> mode.
> Your page put IE6 in quirks mode, but not IE7, so the problem is only
> triggered for IE7 in your page.
> The problem looks in part similar to the quirky percentages one [1].
> Under some conditions it seems that a percentage text-indent is  
> computed
> based on the width of an ancestor instead of on the width of the  
> parent
> element.
> I haven't checked the details, but just created a simple test case  
> [2], with
> few nested wrappers. It seems that the simple addition of hasLayout  
> on the
> box having text-indent fixes the problem. You could try hasLayout  
> on your
>  or some other wrappers (not tested.)

I've seen IE 6 and 7 - in Standards mode - going mad when a <  
blockquote > has a percentage based left margin/padding.
Giving 'layout' on the blockquote did fix the problem.

Something like this one:

The margin was kind of applied to the  inside the 

CSS wouldn't be fun without IE.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh





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Re: [css-d] CSS Formatting - overflow for clearing floats

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jul 18, 2006, at 8:17 AM, Robert O'Rourke wrote:

>> So, the overflow-property is a useful solution for containing  
>> floats in
>> some cases, but not in others.
>>
>> regards
>>  Georg
>>
>
> Good to know,
>
> Does a floated element within a container that has overflow : hidden ;
> applied respect the padding of the container? In particular the bottom
> padding, and also are there any cross-browser differences in this
> instance? (apart from the usual =P )

Yes, it should...

While you are around on my demos on block formatting context. The use  
of overflow can be quite problematic. Have a look at this in Opera 9  
and below:

(overflow adjacent to a right floated block).
And all those demos are quite basic things. There are more  
differences between browsers. Look at how the horizontal margins are  
handled, especially between a container with overflow and an adjacent  
float (hint: Gecko and iCab are right, all others are wrong).

The overflow:hidden method can also cause content to be clipped, with  
no way for the user to access the data. Imagine a larger data table  
within such a container. It may display fine when viewed on the  
designers monitor. But the user need to zoom in to be able to read.  
The table expands, but part of it is clipped...

As Georg says, quoted above, overflow can be a method to contain floats.

There are no black and white solutions. Advising people, especially  
beginners, of the contrary is utterly unfair.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh





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Re: [css-d] div breaking out of parent

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jul 18, 2006, at 7:23 AM, Holly Bergevin wrote:

>> In the testing I've done, Opera 9 and IE 6 on Windows behave  
>> correctly.
>> Firefox 1.5 on Windows does not, nor does Safari or Firefox on a  
>> Mac. I
>> believe Opera 9 on the Mac behaves correctly.
>
> Matt,
>
> Opera and IE are not behaving correctly according to the specs,  
> whereas FF and Safari, regardless of the platform, are. Auto- 
> expanding of elements by ignoring set heights is an "IE thing,"  
> generally.
>
> Change {height: 37.5em;} to {min-height: 37.5em;} for #ksapage (for  
> good browsers) and use your choice of hiding methods to give IE the  
> height you need it to have.

Add to this: Opera would act correctly (same as Fx and Safari and  
iCab and Konqueror) if you trigger standards mode in that browser  
(like adding a doctype at the top of the page).

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh





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Re: [css-d] ie7b3 :: text-indent

[David Laakso]

Bruno Fassino wrote:
> ~davidLaakso wrote:
>
>   
>> In this page  , xp ie6
>> renders the right column p text-indent correctly.
>> However, ie7b3 standalone(on my
>> end), and ie7b2 (browsercam) approximately double the p
>> text-indent. Is
>> this doubling of a specified text-indent a known ie7 issue?
>>
>> Captures:
>> xp ie6.0 (pass):
>> 
>> ie7b3 standalone (fail):
>> 
>> ie7b2 browsercam (fail):
>> 
>> 
>
>
> I've never seen this problem before, don't know if it is known, anyway it is
> not limited to IE7 beta. It occurs in IE6 as well, but only in "standards"
> mode.
> Your page put IE6 in quirks mode, but not IE7, so the problem is only
> triggered for IE7 in your page.
> The problem looks in part similar to the quirky percentages one [1].
> Under some conditions it seems that a percentage text-indent is computed
> based on the width of an ancestor instead of on the width of the parent
> element.
> I haven't checked the details, but just created a simple test case [2], with
> few nested wrappers. It seems that the simple addition of hasLayout on the
> box having text-indent fixes the problem. You could try hasLayout on your
>  or some other wrappers (not tested.)
>
>   
>> Thanks.
>> ~dL
>> 
> Best,
> Bruno
>
> [1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/percentages.html
> [2] http://www.brunildo.org/test/iew_perc_text_indent.html
>   
Thanks so much, Bruno(and all of you who took time to reply). Your test 
page is appreciated. I will not bore you with what did not work(for me). 
An elegant, and painless, off-list suggestion from Holly Bergevin to 
change the text-indent from percent to em did the trick (confirmed on my 
standalone install of ie7b3; and, browsercam ie7b2).
Thanks, all...
David
PS My best to Sparky.


-- 

http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ca/ccs/pow/pow.html

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[css-d] why reply doesn't default to list?

[Peter Michaux]

Hi,

I subscribe to many mailing lists and when I click reply it goes to
the list. However with this list it goes to the original poster and
the message is not shared for the benifit of all. Why is this? Also I
may only be able to help a little and not be able to continue a
private email conversation.

Thanks,
Peter
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Re: [css-d] why reply doesn't default to list?

[Felix Miata]

On 06/07/17 20:34 (GMT-0700) Peter Michaux apparently typed:

> I subscribe to many mailing lists and when I click reply it goes to
> the list. However with this list it goes to the original poster and
> the message is not shared for the benifit of all. Why is this? Also I
> may only be able to help a little and not be able to continue a
> private email conversation.

Some discussion list admins, including this one, agree with:

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

while most list admins I'm familiar with agree instead with:

http://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-useful.html
-- 
"If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in
your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Romans 3:23 NIV

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/
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[css-d] clear problems in Firefox/Opera

[Magenta Placenta]

http://www.matthickerson.com/
http://www.matthickerson.com/stylesheet.css

Explorer: appears fine

Firefox/Opera: white background doesn't span height of page, right side page 
padding doesn't show up, nor does the footer background graphic.

I believe this to be a clearing problem, but I'm not really understanding 
WHAT and WHERE the clearing needs to be to make the page appear like 
Explorer.  I've searched/read lots online, but I'm just not understanding 
what I need to do.  Can anyone help?

Thanks.


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Re: [css-d] Three column div

[Paul Novitski]

Aaron Gray wrote:
> >>> Is it possible to have a three column layout with fixed width left and
> >>> right columns , and variable width center column, WITH a minimum width,
> >>> using div's ?

At 06:02 AM 7/17/2006, Zoe M. Gillenwater replied:
>- Float one div left
>- Float one div right
>- Give middle div matching left and right margins
>- Wrap all divs in a container with a minimum and maximum width applied


Aaron, Zoe's earlier advice was right on, but you may have failed to 
read it closely enough.  The problem with your layout is that your 
markup sequence is float-left, center, float-right -- so the 
floated-right block is falling over to the next row regardless of the 
container width.

If you change your markup sequence to left, right, center as Zoe 
suggested, it will work the way you want.



 
header
 

 
   left
 

 
   right
 

 
   center
 



Rationale: The #left block, floated left, causes the next element on 
the page to want to sit to its right.  That next block is #right, 
which causes the next element on the page to want to sit to its 
left.  The third block is #center, which sits to the left of #right 
and to the right of #left -- i.e., in the middle.

You just have to remember that floating a block left or right 
positions it relative to the following elements on the page, not the 
preceding ones.

Clear as mud?

Paul 

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