date:20010921

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Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 23:21:06 EDT
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Subject: [AL-AWDA] Sharon snatches defeat from the belly of victory

9 21 01
Sharon snatches defeat from the belly of victory

Sisters & brothers,

A massive gap has opened between Bush & Sharon. The 9/21 issue of NYâs
pro-Zionist Forward  reports in detail re the
problems Bush faces because of his entanglement with Sharon & Zionism. I urge
all to download the following articles listed & study them.

As it is unrealistic to think that busy folks will drop everything to read 4
articles on anyoneâs say so, allow me to focus on the highlights, so as to
stimulate you to find time to read them, asap.

The crucial fact is that âSaudi Crown Prince Abdullah... was the key factor
in convincing the administration that if Israel attacked Arafat under the
umbrella of an American campaign against Islamic terrorism, the entire Arab
world would unite against Washington. Consequently, he warned, the future of
moderate pro-American regimes, such as those in Riyadh, Cairo or Amman, would
be seriously jeopardized.â

Sharon of course wanted to use the disgraceful cheering by some Palestinians
at the deaths of thousands of Americans, against all Palestinians. Bush may
be a fool, but Powell, a sophisticated soldier with some notion of politics,
understands that they must take down bin Laden, & that is next to impossible
if the Arab masses move against the regimes. Arab & Muslim support for
catching bin Laden is crucial to the undertaking. Therefor Bush had to call
for Sharon to allow Shimon Peres to talk with Arafat. That, Sharon doesnât
want, no way, no how.

Peres, his Foreign Minister, understands that the US must defend itself, &
that for Israel not to talk to Arafat is ârejectionistâ to the nth power as
far as Americans are concerned. As the prince warned, the bottom line for
Arab support, or at least lack of opposition to US military efforts, is
Washington making Israel sit down with the Palestinians. If they donât do
that, it will mean dead Americans, the collapse of Wall St.âs native satraps
in the region, & the lose of control of the Persian Gulfâs oil to fundamentali
sm or nationalism & the left.

Instead of cooperating, Sharon freaked out. He âtook his case to the American
public... Addressing a group of Jewish community leaders in a teleconference
with reporters invited to listen in, Mr. Sharon repeated his comparison of
Mr. Arafat to bin Laden and declared that the "coalition against terror
should struggle against all terror organizations"â and "must include the
terrorist organization led by Arafat."... Sharon declared: "We are not going
to pay a price for this coalition. We cannot do it."

The American Jews were stunned. âSeveral participants in the teleconference,
which was organized by the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish
Organizations, privately expressed surprise and discomfort at what they
called Mr. Sharon's âextremeâ and âundiplomaticâ language.â

Everyone knows Arafat is a fool. But even a fool is wise after the event, in
this case, the cheering for bin Laden. âThere were Israeli intelligence
reports that he had sent out an order to his security services to rein in the
Islamic militants of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. He was also working feverishly
to demonstrate Palestinian sympathy and solidarity with American victims of
terrorism.â

Bush blew up: âSharon was also said to be surprised at the stark American
insistence, delivered by President Bush in a reportedly heated conversation
with the prime minister, that Israel go ahead with plans for a meeting
between Mr. Arafat and... Peres.â

âSharon thus found himself at loggerheads with both the administration and
his foreign minister. Mr. Peres was demanding that his meeting with Mr.
Arafat be allowed to proceed, accusing Mr. Sharon of placing Israel in an
anti-American "rejectionist front.â

Now we have the crux of the matter. For good & bad reasons, Bush must have
bin Ladenâs ass to show the world. But to get that fine fellowâs posterior
into his sling, he must persuade the Arab masses to let him do it. Suddenly
their decision, their activity or non-activity, has become the decisive
factor in Middle Eastern politics &, more crucially, in Americaâs politics.

The cliche would be that Sharon snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. But
donât have any illusions. He had to reach way down into victory's belly to
pull this brilliant stunt off. Because there is no doubt that many
Palestinians were happy at the news from America, contrary to the perfervid
denial syndrome found among many Arab-Americans, who know how enraged
millions of Americans became when they saw this. These Arab-Americans, of
many politics, follow Arafat, who they usually despise, as a fool & despot,
in minimizing that unspeakable reali

[CTRL] Star Light, Star Bright


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From
http://www.metimes.com/2K1/issue2001-38/methaus.htm

}}}>Begin
World's biggest war games to go ahead in Egypt
By Michel Sailhan CAIRO
The United States, France and other countries are moving ahead with
preparations for the world's biggest war games, with some 70,000
troops in Egypt in October, Western diplomats said here on September
17.
The diplomats said they were virtually certain the war games, dubbed
Operation Bright Star, would go head despite the wave of terror
attacks in the United States and a much-anticipated U.S. military
response.
Some 1,000 U.S. troops have arrived this month in northern Egypt to
take part in the military exercises, which have been staged every two
years since the 1980s, and France is also moving ahead with its
plans, they added.
Around 40,000 Egyptian and 20,000 U.S. troops will make up the bulk
of the force from 12 countries this year, they said.
The three-phase exercises will last from October 8 to November 1 and
will include training, tactical operations simulating confrontations
with enemy forces, and a final phase to test command readiness.
Maneuvers will take place in the area of Al Alamein, where British and allied forces 
won a pivotal battle against Axis forces in World War II.
Most of the exercises will be on land, some of them involving airborne troops.
France, the second largest foreign contributor with 1,500 troops, will take part with 
Germany, Britain, Spain and Greece as well as four Arab countries: Kuwait, Jordan, the 
United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.
The participation of 1,000 Italian troops has yet to be confirmed.
A spokesman for the U.S. Embassy in Cairo said September 17 that the American 
participation was still going ahead in the absence of any announcement to the contrary.
The U.S. forces, including U.S. Special Forces and mechanized troops,
are under orders from General Tommy Franks, who heads the Central
Command zone.
The zone covers the Horn of Africa, Egypt, the countries of the
Arabian Peninsula, Afghanistan and Pakistan as well as the
neighboring countries of the former Soviet Union, but excludes
Israel, Lebanon and Syria.
Washington has enlisted Pakistan's support in the war against
terrorism.
With its contingent of 40,000 men, Egypt is sending around one tenth
of its military capability to the exercises, which aim to show the
participants' commitment to the stability of the volatile region.
Egypt is one of the main allies of the United States, receiving $1.3
billion in military aid every year, making it the second largest
recipient after Israel.
AFP

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believe in anything merely on the authority of Teachers, elders or wise men.
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
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CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
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[CTRL] Euroneous Zones


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From
http://www.guardian.co.uk/EMU/Story/0,2763,556179,00.html

}}}>Begin
Balkan forgers ready to cash in on euro
Special report: economic and monetary   union
Rory Carroll in Belgrade
Saturday September 22, 2001
The Guardian
Criminal gangs in the Balkans have begun a huge operation to profit
from the introduction of the single currency by flooding the European
market with counterfeit euros, the authorities warned yesterday.
Some analysts believe that the criminals - currency forgers with vast
experience - could threaten the stability of the currency when about
14.5bn unfamiliar notes go into circulation in little more than three
months' time.
Police forces in the 12 European Union countries that are adopting
the euro have pooled   intelligence and prepared joint strategies to
combat the forgers, but the Balkans gapes open as a zone of little
control. Forgers there know how to produce high-quality fakes and,
crucially, how to filter them into Europe's economy.
Despite efforts to keep the security features of the new notes
secret, Britain's national criminal intelligence service believes
that the counterfeiting has begun.
The EU and Europol do not want to hear stories such as that of a Serbian policeman, 
Captain Ortic, who thought he had one of those welcome cases where the bad guys were 
caught holding the evidence - in this instance, bags
 of forged banknotes. There were witnesses to affirm their guilt and conviction seemed 
assured.
The two men were not merely couriers; they were bosses of a Balkan smuggling racket 
and had been targets for the authorities for about five months.
Capt Ortic - his real rank, not his real name - took a morning off to watch them being 
sent down in a Belgrade court. The judge avoided his gaze when he delivered the 
verdict: not guilty.
The judge blamed insufficient evidence and holes in the prosecution. The defendants 
exchanged smiles, but did not appear surprised. They walked out of the courthouse to a 
waiting car.
A rare victory over counterfeiters had turned to dust and Capt Ortic draws his own 
conclusions: "There is no point chasing these guys when they can bribe judges. From 
now on I'll stick to bank robbers."
It is inevitable that the Balkan underworld will swap the US dollar for the euro as 
its currency of choice, one British diplomat specialised in the field believes.
Its high denomination - a 500 euro note will be more than four times more valuable 
than a $100 bill - and multi-national acceptance are powerful lures.
Europol admits that operational agreements with Balkan states will not be in place by 
January, when the euros begin to circulate, but claims that cooperation with the 
Balkan law enforcement agencies is intensive.
Capt Ortic disagrees. As the head of one of the Belgrade police force's 
anti-counterfeiting units, he says he has had no contact with Europol and that his men 
are wholly unprepared for the challenge.
Resources are scant and they have orders to concentrate on types of fraud which matter 
more to their superiors, such as fake government documents. "Frankly I have no 
incentive to chase false euros," he says.The euro is de
emed the concern of Brussels, even though in Serbia it will act as a shadow currency 
to the Yugoslav dinar. It will be the official currency in Croatia, Montenegro and 
Bosnia-Herzegovina.
The two men freed by the judge had been carrying fake German marks, but Capt Ortic is 
sure their network, which spans Albania and Bosnia, has begun printing euros.
In the decade since commu nism and Yugoslavia collapsed, gangsters have enjoyed a 
free-for-all in parts of the Balkans, routinely smuggling weapons, drugs, cars, 
cigarettes and people.
Joining that illicit trail, the British diplomat says, will be bags stuffed with euros 
from presses sophisticated enough to fool most people.
The Russian mafia alone is believed to operate three printing shops
in Bulgaria, from where the notes follow the "tobacco route", through
Macedonia, Albania, Montenegro and Greece.
The Montenegrin newspaper Dan says that the gangs have improved their
reproduction of the British pound and will soon circulate counterfeit
sterling as well.
All this adds up to busy times for Belgrade's biggest black market
currency dealer, an affable and reformed gambler known as "the
doctor".
In the past two months he has been besieged with requests for dollars
and Swiss francs. Taking out a three-inch wad of marks from his
pocket, he says: "That's just from the past three days."
"From the big guys to the little guys, it's the same story -
everyone's hoping to make a killing from the euro."
Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2001

End<{{{
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expressed a prior interest in receiving this type

[CTRL] Tarbabies


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From
http://reason.com/hod/jw092101.html

}}}>Begin
September 21, 2001
What Happens Next?
Six options beyond war and peace
By Jesse Walker
When the military prepares for action, the public debate is usually a
simple either/or: Will there be peace, or will there be war? Not so
now. Fresh from the bloody assaults on the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon, there are at least six choices before us, each with its own
subgenres and mutant variations. None is perfect, and one is actually
insane. But each is worth examining, if only to understand what
people actually mean when they call for war, peace, or some other
path they can't quite articulate.
Here, then, are our choices, beginning with the least violent and
ending with the most:
1. The Gandhi Option
Some favor no military response to the attacks at all. In its flaky
form, this position involves wishing really hard, perhaps while
holding someone's hand, that hatred and violence will disappear from
the world. Not every pacifist is so naive, though, and there is a
more sophisticated case for military inaction.
This argument points out that terrorists do not come from nowhere.
They respond to particular policies of the country under attack. If,
as the evidence suggests, the assault was masterminded by Osama bin
Laden or his allies, then it may well be easier to adjust our foreign
policy than to hunt down every terrorist in the Middle East,
especially since that hunt might inspire yet more Middle Easterners
to turn to terrorism. Wouldn't it make more sense just to stop these
clumsy interventions into other people's battles? Why make ourselves
a target for every tin-pot maniac in the Third World?
A variation on this argument notes that many of our present foes--
including Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein--were originally built
up by the United States to fight the enemies of an earlier day. One
can only wonder what our allies in a new war might do to us several
years later.
There are two problems with the Gandhi option. The first relates not
so much to the position itself as to some of the people who have been
advancing it. Obsessed with finding what "we" might have done to
"deserve" this--as though anyone deserves to die this way--the
hairshirt faction has conjured a list of sins far removed from
anything that could have inspired the attacks. When the filmmaker
Michael Moore speculated about the terrorists' motives, for example,
his rambling ruminations touched on missile defense, America's
withdrawal from the Durban conference on racism, and even our
rejection of the Kyoto accords on global warming. Evidently, Moore
believes that we are being attacked by European diplomats.
In the real world, we are being attacked by a group that--judging
from the fatwah issued by Osama bin Laden in 1998--objects to
America's military presence in Saudi Arabia, to its sanctions against
Iraq, and to its support for Israel. The point of reexamining U.S.
foreign policy in the wake of the attacks is not to find everything
about it that you might want to change, from Star Wars to Kyoto. It
is to find the parts that might be putting us in danger, even if
you've supported them until now. In the next few months, a lot of
Israel's American supporters will be wrestling with a difficult
choice: Israel's security, or their own? Many will choose the latter.
The other problem with Gandhianism goes deeper. Watching the World
Trade Center towers collapse last week, desperately aware that
thousands of people were inside them, most Americans did not merely
crave greater security. They wanted justice. If nothing is done to
capture the people responsible for that atrocity, it will be hard to
claim that justice has been done.
2. The Kojak Option
And so we come to option two. A terrible crime has been committed.
The immediate perps are now dead, but the conspirators behind them
are alive and free. They may be plotting further, even worse
assaults. We still aren't sure who they are or where they are, but we
have some significant leads. So it's time for some expert policework,
to track down and capture the people who did this.
The advantage to this approach is that it meets the demand for a
response while keeping that response targeted at the criminals. As
such, it upholds justice in two ways: by meting it out to the
murderers who killed 5,000 people in one day, and by refusing to
replicate their crime by killing anyone unfortunate enough to live in
the same country as the terrorists.
There are two disadvantages. One of them I'll describe later, as it
undermines the next two alternatives as well. The other is that, in
tracking terrorists through the mountains of central Asia, it won't
be easy to stick to all the legal niceties that policemen are
supposed to observe. And if it comes down to letting the likely
culprits escape or abandoning due process, most Americans will choose
the latter. At the very least, they will say, let us consider
response three:
3. The Bronson Option
If we c

[CTRL] Fwd: FAKE TERROR - THE ROAD TO DICTATORSHIP






http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/index.html

FAKE TERROR - THE ROAD TO DICTATORSHIP

[...]

The state-sponsored schools will never tell you this, but governments
routinely rely on hoaxes to sell their agendas to an otherwise reluctant
public. The Romans accepted the Emperors and the Germans accepted Hitler not
because they wanted to, but because the carefully crafted illusions of
threat appeared to leave no other choice.

Our government too uses hoaxes to create the illusion that We The People
have no choice but the direction the government wishes us to go in.

In 1898, Joseph Pulitzer's New York World and William Randolph Hearst's New
York Journal were arguing for American intervention in Cuba. Hearst is
reported to have dispatched a photographer to Cuba to photograph the coming
war with Spain. When the photographer asked just what war that might be,
Hearst is reported to have replied, "You take the photographs, and I will
provide the war". Hearst was true to his word, as his newspaper published
stories of great atrocities being committed against the Cuban people, most
of which turned out to be complete fabrications.

On the night of February 15, 1898, the USS Maine, lying in Havana harbor in
a show of US resolve to protect her interests, exploded violently. Captain
Sigsbee, the commander of the Maine, urged that no assumptions of enemy
attack be made until there was a full investigation of the cause of the
explosion. For this, Captain Sigsbee was excoriated in the press for
"refusing to see the obvious". The Atlantic Monthly declared flat out that
to suppose the explosion to be anything other than a deliberate act by Spain
was "completely at defiance of the laws of probability".

Under the slogan "Remember the Maine", Americans went to war with Spain,
eventually winning the Phillipines (and annexing Hawaii along the way).

In 1975, an investigation led by Admiral Hyman Rickover examined the data
recovered from a 1911 examination of the wreck and concluded that there had
been no evidence of an external explosion. The most likely cause of the
sinking was a coal dust explosion in a coal bunker imprudently located next
to the ship's magazines. Captain Sigsbee's caution had been well founded.

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt needed a war. He needed the fever of a
major war to mask the symptoms of a still deathly ill economy struggling
back from the Great Depression (and mutating towards Socialism at the same
time). Roosevelt wanted a war with Germany to stop Hitler, but despite
several provocations in the Atlantic, the American people, still struggling
with that troublesome economy, were opposed to any wars. Roosevelt violated
neutrality with lend lease, and even ordered the sinking of several German
ships in the Atlantic, but HItler refused to be provoked.

Roosevelt needed an enemy, and if America would not willingly attack that
enemy, then one would have to be maneuvered into attacking America, much as
Marcus Licinius Crassus has maneuvered Sparticus into attacking Rome.

The way open to war was created when Japan signed the tripartite agreement
with Italy and Germany, with all parties pledging mutual defense to each
other. Whereas Hitler would never declare war on the United States no matter
the provocation, the means to force Japan to do so were readily at hand.

The first step was to place oil and steel embargoes on Japan, using Japan's
wars on the Asian mainland as a reason. This forced Japan to consider
seizing the oil and mineral rich regions in Indonesia. With the European
powers militarily exhausted by the war in Europe, the United States was the
only power in the Pacific able to stop Japan from invading the Dutch East
Indies, and by moving the Pacific fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor,
Hawaii, Roosevelt made a pre-emptive strike on that fleet the mandatory
first step in any Japanese plan to extend it's empire into the "southern
resource area".

Roosevelt boxed in Japan just as completely as Crassus had boxed in
Sparticus. Japan needed oil. They had to invade Indonesia to get it, and to
do that they first had to remove the threat of the American fleet at Pearl
Harbor. There never really was any other course open to them.

To enrage the American people as much as possible, Roosevelt needed the
first overt attack by Japan to be as bloody as possible, appearing as a
sneak attack much as the Japanese had done to the Russians. From that moment
up until the attack on Pearl Harbor itself, Roosevelt and his associates
made sure that the commanders in Hawaii, General Short and Admiral Kimmel,
were kept in the dark as much as possible about the location of the Japanese
fleet and it's intentions, then later scapegoated for the attack. (Congress
recently exonerated both Short and Kimmel, posthumously restoring them to
their former ranks).

But as the Army board had concluded at the time, and subsequent
de-classified documents confirmed, Washington DC knew the attack was coming,
knew exact

[CTRL] Russian Military Veterans Warn US - 'Don't Go Into Afghanistan'

2001-09-21 Thread Steve


-Caveat Lector-

   Russian Military Veterans
   Warn US - 'Don't Go
   Into Afghanistan'
 By Richard Balmforth
   9-20-1

   "Despite the fact that the Soviet force had hundreds of 
thousands
   of men, powerful weaponry and held the main transport arteries, 
it
   had to deal with a well-prepared and well-trained enemy," said
   Gromov.

   And while U.S. society was "sensitive to loss of life", human
   losses in Muslim Afghanistan were viewed differently. "What
   Allah has given, so Allah takes, they believe. A person who is
   killed in battle for his motherland and faith passes straight to
   paradise," he said.



   MOSCOW (Reuters) - U.S. plans for military operations in
   Afghanistan have triggered an outpouring of advice from Russia's
   Afghan veterans who say a full-scale war there would be folly.

   With painful memories of Moscow's costly 10-year Afghan
   adventure still etched in their minds, they are issuing a single
   message to their old Cold War enemy: "Don't do it."

   "We lost 15,000 men in 10 years of war in Afghanistan -- I don't
   think the Americans could escape that either," said Boris 
Gromov,
   the Soviet general who led the retreat of Moscow's defeated
   forces from Afghanistan in 1989.

   "They (the Americans) are getting ready to repeat our mistakes. 
It
   is just not possible to conquer or pacify Afghanistan by 
military
   means," General Makhmut Gareyev, a former military adviser to
   the late Afghan President Najibullah, wrote in a newspaper
   interview on Thursday.

   The historical irony has not been lost on the Russian military
   establishment as it now lectures the United States on the 
dangers
   of drawn-out involvement in Afghanistan.

   When the late Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev ordered "a limited
   military contingent" into Afghanistan in December 1979 it 
plunged
   East and West into a new Cold War crisis.

   The United States led the West in angrily condemning the Soviet
   intervention and called on the Kremlin to pull its forces out 
and
   leave the Afghan people to determine their own fate.

   As Soviet forces slipped into the quagmire of combat with Afghan
   mujahideen forces, turning it into Russia's Vietnam, the word 
from
   the West was: "We told you so."

   By the time they left, besides the Soviet losses, an estimated 
one
   million Afghans had been killed and another eight million had 
been
   exiled or displaced.

   OLD SOLDIER'S ADVICE

   Gromov, the last Soviet soldier out of Afghanistan in February
   1989, told Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper that mountain
   fighting against hardy and elusive guerrillas had proved a 
bitter
   experience.

   "Despite the fact that the Soviet force had hundreds of 
thousands
   of men, powerful weaponry and held the main transport arteries, 
it
   had to deal with a well-prepared and well-trained enemy," said
   Gromov, now governor of the Moscow region.

   "Intelligence of all kinds will play the most important role,
   especially in the form of intelligence agents. Don't worry about
   spending money on them, because there can't be success without
   them."

   Gareyev, writing in Obshaya Gazeta, said Afghanistan's lack of
   real infrastructure meant there was little of value to be 
destroyed
   by an air campaign.

   And while U.S. society was "sensitive to loss of life", human 
losses
   in Muslim Afghanistan were viewed differently. "What Allah has
   given, so Allah takes, they believe. A person who is killed in 
battle
   for his motherland and faith passes straight to paradise," he 
said.

   Communications and supply lines in the rugged,

Re: [CTRL] Coincidence? UK exercises in Middle East since Sept. 3

2001-09-21 Thread Samantha L.


-Caveat Lector-

  Coincidence?  Note the date of the article.Samantha

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1522000/1522987.stm

Monday, 3 September, 2001, 15:42 GMT 16:42 UK
Carrier heads for the Middle East

Operation Saif Sareea 2 will cost nearly £100m

The aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious has sailed from Portsmouth to lead the
biggest Royal Navy and Royal Marine deployment since the Falklands.
HMS Illustrious is the flagship of three groups of warships travelling to the
Middle East to take part in exercise "Saif Sareea 2".

More than 24 surface ships from Britain, plus two nuclear submarines, will be
completing the 13,000 mile round trip.

The operation, costing nearly £100m, will end with a major excercise before
Christmas that will also involve the Army, Royal Air Force and Armed Forces
of Oman.



The cost has been put at nearly £100m

The strike force has been put together to take part in a conflict between the
fictional forces of the so-called state of 'Alawham' and those of Oman.

British military planners want to see if they can muster the kind of rapid
reaction force outlined in the defence review which took place in 1998.

Rear Admiral James Burnell-Nugent CBE, Commander of the UK Maritime Forces,
is heading the group.

He said: "This is a significant display of maritime power, we are sending
8,500 sailors, airmen, and Royal Marines to the Gulf Region.

"In total the Argonaut task group consists of 40 separate commands, brought
together into an integrated, self-sustaining joint fighting force." The
deployment will include the helicopter carrier HMS Ocean, the assault ship
HMS Fearless, destroyers, frigates and mine countermeasures vessels.

Maritime power

Royal Fleet Auxiliary support ships will also be taking part in the exercise.

Royal Marines from 3 Commando Brigade will be involved in amphibious landings
on the coast of Oman.

Speaking to BBC Radio Solent, Rear Admiral Burnell-Nugent said: "One of the
advantages that a naval task group brings is that it carries all of its
logistics with it, a full range of capabilities from cruise missiles to
laser-guided bombs to Royal Marine Commandos."

He said he was aware that his forces, which include 23,000 British military
personnel from all three services, could be redeployed at any moment.

"I'm not aware of any plans to do so, but there's a capability there which
the government can draw on," he said.



More from Southampton

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London shares claw back at close

Links to more UK stories are at the foot of the page.

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Re: [CTRL] FR: Exclusive-Terrorist Paymaster,Probably Bin Laden's Brother Arrested In Orlando, Sent To New York

2001-09-21 Thread foxter




Cannot get the link 
to work, is it me?
Thanks.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Joe 
  Gillaspie 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 11:11 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] FR: 
  Exclusive-Terrorist Paymaster,Probably Bin Laden's Brother Arrested In 
  Orlando, Sent To New York
  -Caveat Lector-> FYI>> http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3bab892664b2.htm>> 
  Law Enforcement Sources, who have been 100% accurate on this story say 
  a> man arrested in an Orlando suburb over the weekend is now confirmed 
  as the> paymaster for the whole terrorist attack 
  operation.>> He has been using the name Ahmed Badawi, but FBI 
  believes he is actually is> one of the many brothers of Osama Bin 
  Laden!>> The man, who FBI flew to New York in FBI aircraft 
  yesterday, ran a travel> agency in Orlando called "Florida Sunny Summer 
  Tours." He also ran a> national car delivery service and a check 
  cashing service. The check> cashing service gave him ability to move 
  large amounts of cash without> arousing suspicion at banks, etc. The 
  car delivery service gave them> ability to move people around country 
  with no records or cost.>> More when we have it.>> 
  This is a major break... and a FReeper exclusive.>> 
  >  
  Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT>>    FROM 
  THE DESK 
  OF:>>    
  *Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>   
  The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends> 
  > 
  @admin.listbox.com.  In the message body put: unsubscribe 
  cas>> www.ctrl.orghttp://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org>> 
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  & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic> screeds 
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  and thought.> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity 
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  CTRL gives no> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not 
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Re: [CTRL] FR: Exclusive-Terrorist Paymaster,Probably Bin Laden's Brother Arrested In Orlando, Sent To New York

2001-09-21 Thread Joe Gillaspie


-Caveat Lector-

> FYI
>
> http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3bab892664b2.htm
>
> Law Enforcement Sources, who have been 100% accurate on this story say a
> man arrested in an Orlando suburb over the weekend is now confirmed as the
> paymaster for the whole terrorist attack operation.
>
> He has been using the name Ahmed Badawi, but FBI believes he is actually is
> one of the many brothers of Osama Bin Laden!
>
> The man, who FBI flew to New York in FBI aircraft yesterday, ran a travel
> agency in Orlando called "Florida Sunny Summer Tours." He also ran a
> national car delivery service and a check cashing service. The check
> cashing service gave him ability to move large amounts of cash without
> arousing suspicion at banks, etc. The car delivery service gave them
> ability to move people around country with no records or cost.
>
> More when we have it.
>
> This is a major break... and a FReeper exclusive.
>
> 
>  Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT
>
>FROM THE DESK OF:
>
>*Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>   The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
> 
> @admin.listbox.com.  In the message body put: unsubscribe cas
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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>
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> Om

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[CTRL] More on Source of 4,000 Israeli WTC Employees Absent on September 11

2001-09-21 Thread foxter




from:  
http://paknews.org/flash.php?id=27&date1=2001-09-18
 
 


  
  

  4,000 Jews Did Not Go To Work At World Trade Center On Sept. 11
  4,000 Israeli Employees in WTC Absent the Day of the Attack
  
Updated on 2001-09-18 
  16:05:32
  
 
  

  


  

  
  
 Send this 
  Article to your friend  Printer-Friendly 
  Version!!!  Post your Comments 
  
  (AL-MANAR Television - Beirut 
  Lebanon) With the announcement of the attacks at the World Trade Center in 
  New York, the international media, particularly the Israeli one, hurried 
  to take advantage of the incident and started mourning 4,000 Israelis who 
  work at the two towers. 
  Then suddenly, no one ever mentioned anything about those 
  Israelisand later it became clear that they remarkably did not show 
  upin their jobs the day the [four passenger aircraft hijacking 
  andcrashing] incident [at the World Trade Center, Pentagon 
  andPennsylvania] took place [on Tuesday, September 11, 
  2001].No one talked about any Israeli being killed or wounded in 
  theattacks. Arab diplomatic sources revealed to the 
  Jordanianal-Watan newspaper that those Israelis remained absent that 
  day[Tuesday, September 11, 2001] based on hints from the 
  IsraeliGeneral Security Apparatus, the Shabak, the fact which 
  evokedunannounced suspicions on American officials who wanted to 
  knowhow the Israeli government learned about the incident before 
  itoccurred, and the reasons why it refrained from informing 
  theU.S. authorities of the information it had.Suspicions had 
  increased further after Israeli newspaper YadiotAhranot revealed that 
  the Shabak prevented Israeli premier ArielSharon from traveling to New 
  York and particularly to the city'seastern coast to participate in a 
  festival organized by theZionist organizations in support of the 
  "Israel". Aharon Bernie,the commentator at the newspaper, brought up 
  the issue and cameup with a negative conclusion, saying "no answer". 
  He then askedabout the clue behind the Shabak's position in 
  preventingSharon's participation, and again without giving an 
  answer.Bernie added that Sharon, who was delighted for having 
  hisspeech on top of the festival agenda, asked the head of 
  theorganization to mediate and convince the Shabak to change 
  itsposition, but his attempts were in vein. The next day 
  afterSharon's secretary officially announced that Sharon would 
  notparticipate the incident [at the World Trade Center] took 
  place.For its part, the Israeli Ha'aretz newspaper revealed that 
  theFBI arrested five Israelis four hours after the attack on 
  the[World Trade Center] Twin Towers while filming the 
  smokingskyline from the roof of their company's building. The FBI 
  hadarrested the five for "puzzling behavior". They are said to 
  havebeen caught videotaping the disaster in what was interpreted 
  ascries of joy and 
  mockery.==
  AL-MANAR Television Special 
  Investigative Reporthttp://www.manartv.comBeirut, Lebanon - Monday, September 17, 2001http://www.manartv.com/html/engmiddle.html
  Al-Manar TV Contact 
  Info:http://www.manartv.com/html/contact.htmlAbout Al-Manar 
  Televisionhttp://www.manartv.com/html/about.htmlAl-Manar 
  Television, a Lebanese TV station, aims to preserve theIslamic values 
  and to enhance the civilized role of the Arab andIslamic Community. 
  Political, cultural and social affairs are ofspecial importance o the 
  station's programs. Most important isthe struggle against 
  Zionism/racism. In its course of work,Al-Manar TV focuses on live talk 
  shows and dialogue programs inwhich it makes sure to bring out 
  different thoughts and beliefsin addition to the participation of the 
  viewers in thedialogues. The Al-Manar TV station was licensed by 
  theGovernment of Lebanon in 1997.INFOTIMES INTERNET-WEB 
  LINKS:FBI Arrests 5 Israeli-Jews After U.S. Terrorist 
  Attackshttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/InfoTimes/message/1053Did Israel Attack the Pentagon and World Trade Center?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/InfoTimes/message/1032U.S. Military Could Be Behind The Sept. 11 Terrorist 
  Attackshttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/InfoTimes/message/1048'FBI's Dead Hijacker' is Alive and Lives in Saudi 
  Arabiahttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/InfoTimes/message/1049Peter Arnett's Interview of Usama bin Ladenhttp://www.flinet.com/~politics/jihad/jihad.htmRobert Fisk Talks with Osama bin Ladenhttp://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=archive&s=fisk_wtc_19980921FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitiveshttp://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/topten/fugitives/laden.htmCivilized World

[CTRL] WT: Iraq suspected of sponsoring terrorist attacks


-Caveat Lector-

September 21, 2001

Iraq suspected of sponsoring terrorist attacks

By Bill Gertz

THE WASHINGTON TIMES


Osama bin Laden was in contact with Iraqi government agents from his
base in Afghanistan in the days leading up to the Sept.  11 terrorist
attacks, according to U.S.  intelligence officials.

Officials also told The Washington Times there are indications bin
Laden, the leading suspect in the deadly attacks, is preparing to flee
Afghanistan and set up operations in the African nation of Somalia.

Bin Laden's contacts with the Iraqi government were detected before the
attacks, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

"This is the basis for signs of state sponsorship," said one official.

Attorney General John Ashcroft said Wednesday that foreign governments
likely provided safe haven and support for the 19 terrorists who
hijacked four U.S.
airliners.  Three of the airliners were flown into the World Trade
Center and the Pentagon; another crashed in Pennsylvania after
passengers apparently fought their captors.

Mr.  Ashcroft did not identify what foreign governments are believed to
be behind the attacks.

Officials said the intelligence of direct Iraqi government contacts with
bin Laden is one of several pieces pointing to Baghdad's involvement in
the attacks.

U.S.  warplanes attacked air- defense sites in Iraq yesterday, but the
Pentagon said the attacks are unrelated to U.S.  anti-terrorism
operations.

President Bush and other U.S.  officials have said bin Laden is the key
suspect in masterminding last week's kamikaze attacks that killed more
than 6,000 Americans.

Mr.  Bush told a joint session of Congress last night that all
governments are on notice that "either you are with us, or you are with
the terrorists."

David Ivry, Israel's ambassador to the United States, said yesterday it
was too soon to make conclusions about an Iraqi role in the attacks.

"My opinion is the investigation is being done by the United States by
professionals," Mr.  Ivry told editors and reporters in a meeting at The
Washington Times.  "They are going to come to conclusions.  We are going
to try to assist as much as we are going to be asked.  But I think it's
too early to come up with a kind of fingering of somebody."

Mr.  Ivry said Iraq has been supporting Palestinian terrorists in Israel
by giving financial aid to the families of suicide bombers who have
launched attacks.

Earlier this week, intelligence officials said one of the hijackers,
Mohammed Atta, met with an Iraqi intelligence agent in the months before
the attack.

The Bush administration is considering whether to target Iraq as part of
an international campaign to destroy terrorists and their networks.

Some Bush administration officials, especially within the Pentagon,
favor attacking Iraq when operations against Afghanistan are begun,
possibly within the next few weeks.
Other administration officials are said to favor limiting the first
strikes to Afghanistan.

Asked about public calls for going after state sponsors of terrorism
like Iraq, Secretary of State Colin L.  Powell said President Bush "has
a clear idea in his mind and has given us our instructions as to how we
will begin this campaign and what the focus of our efforts will be
initially."

"We welcome the views from everybody as to how we might go about this
campaign," Mr.  Powell said.

Regarding bin Laden's future in Afghanistan, officials said the
indications of his flight to Somalia were received in the past few days.

"There are indications he is heading to Somalia," said one official.

The indications are said to include plans for bin Laden to relocate
himself and his wives and other family members from locations in
Afghanistan to an undisclosed location in Somalia, the official said.

Disclosure of the relocation comes as the ruling Taliban militia
announced yesterday in Kabul that bin Laden would be asked to leave the
country.

A statement issued by the Ulema, or council of some 1,000 Taliban
clerics, was not an order for bin Laden to leave.
Afghan officials quoted by U.S.  wire services stated that bin Laden
would be given time to leave "whenever possible."

Asked about the Taliban statement, Mr.  Powell said the announcement was
not enough.

"Voluntarily or involuntarily, we believe that Osama bin Laden has to be
put under control and turned over to authorities who can bring him to
justice, and it should be done rather quickly," Mr.  Powell said.  "We
want action, not just statements."

Mr.  Powell said bin Laden was responsible for "tragedies around the
world."

The Taliban must turn over bin Laden and "all of the other lieutenants
and the infrastructure that exists within Afghanistan," Mr.  Powell
said.

"This isn't a campaign against one individual, but also the network that
he is the leader of," Mr.  Powell said.  "And when we have dealt with al
Qaeda, the network, Osama bin Laden, the individual, we will then
broaden our campaign to go after other t

[CTRL] SFC: Bin Laden's man in Silicon Valley


-Caveat Lector-

Bin Laden's man in Silicon Valley


"Mohamed the American' orchestrated terrorist acts while living a quiet
suburban life in Santa Clara

By Lance Williams, Erin McCormick
San Francisco Chronicle Staff Writers
Friday, September 21, 2001


He was the California connection to Osama bin Laden's fearsome terrorist
organization -- an architect of horrific acts of violence against his
adopted country, even as he lived a quiet suburban lifestyle in Silicon
Valley.

For much of a decade he commuted from the West Coast to the terrorist
camps of Afghanistan and Sudan, where he trained bin Laden's men in
guerrilla military tactics, surveillance and explosives.

The unsuspecting Americans who met him in his duplex in Santa Clara knew
him as Ali A. Mohamed, a cordial, under-employed Egyptian immigrant with an
Army background, a U.S.-born wife and frequent business abroad.

But to his fellow terrorists, he was Abu Mohamed ali Amriki -- "Mohamed
the American" -- a hard-driving military taskmaster who trained bin Laden's
own personal security cadre and was a top aide and confidant of the shadowy
terrorist kingpin himself.

Until his 1998 arrest for plotting the terror bombing of two U.S. embassies
in East Africa, Mohamed "was the California connection, period," for bin
Laden, said lawyer Sam A.  Schmidt, who defended another accused terrorist
in the embassy bombing trial this year.

Now in prison and presumed to be a government informant, Mohamed could be a
key connection for U.S.  investigators probing bin Laden's links to the
suicide hijackers who flew jetliners into the World Trade Center and
Pentagon last week, some experts say.

In remarks to a judge last year when he pleaded guilty to terrorism
charges, Mohamed admitted a long list of such crimes: training guerrillas
who attacked U.S.  soldiers in Somalia in 1993; arranging a summit
conference of anti-U.S.  terrorist organizations in Sudan in 1994; plotting
the suicide bombings of American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, which
killed more than 200 people and injured thousands.

Other suspected activities during his California days include raising
money for the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, implicated in the 1981
assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, and smuggling sleeper
agents for bin Laden into the United States from Canada.

For the U.S.  government, Mohamed is important today because he has
extraordinary insights into the inner workings of bin Laden's al Qaeda
organization, says Yonah Alexander, director of the Potomac Institute's
Center for Terrorism Studies in Washington, D.C., who has researched
Mohamed's life.  He may even have had personal contacts with some of the
hijackers responsible for last week's attacks.

"In his previous life, perhaps he trained some of these people,"
Alexander said.  "Clearly (the government) has interrogated him, and we
assume they are doing it now, because he is a very important source."

Mohamed's story also is important because it shows how easily even a top-
level terrorist can operate unmolested and undetected from the very heart
of the United States.

Terrorist groups have "woven themselves into the fabric of America," said
Harvey Kushner, an international security expert and professor at Long
Island University.  "That is why this is going to be a long, protracted war
(against terrorism).  The enemy is not outside, it's within us."


TRIAL RECORDS REVEAL MOHAMED'S SECRET LIFE

The details of Mohamed's two lives were obtained from court records
generated during two major terrorism trials, from defense lawyers and
security experts who have investigated his background and from people
who knew him in California.

By these accounts, Mohamed, 49, is a well-educated Egyptian national,
fluent in English, who graduated from both the University of Alexandria
and a Cairo military academy.  In about 1971, he joined the Egyptian army,
rising to the rank of major.

As he told a federal judge in New York last year, his links to Middle
Eastern terrorist groups go back 20 years: In 1981, he joined the Egyptian
Islamic Jihad, a group of radical Muslim fundamentalists opposed to the
Egyptian government's ties to the United States and Israel that included
members of the Egyptian military.

That same year Mohamed first visited the United States, graduating from a
special program for foreign officers at the U.S.  Army Special Forces
school at Fort Bragg, N.C., according to a report by Steven Emerson, an
author and terrorism expert.

Mohamed left the Egyptian army about three years after Sadat's death, then
worked for a time as security adviser for EgyptAir, the national airline,
said attorney David Ruhnke, who researched Mohamed's history for the
embassy bombing trial.

Shortly after that, the terrorist operative returned to the United States
and established himself in the Bay Area after romancing an American
divorcee whom he met on a transatlantic flight in 1985.

Mohamed was traveling from Egypt to New York, he said, whi

Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....

2001-09-21 Thread Samantha L.

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 9/21/01 7:10:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> Something like this occurred to me, too. Maybe there were no
>  terrorists aboard those planes. Maybe someone just added a
>  bunch of Arabic names to the passenger lists. We will certainly
>  never know. Whoever was on them was smashed to plaster dust.
>  The preportedly brilliant but misled perpetrators are already dead. A
>  perfect crime.

  And that begs the question of who would be willing to commit suicide for an
op like that?  The only alternative I can come up with is a mind controlled
operative.

Samantha

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] FR: Exclusive-Terrorist Paymaster, Probably Bin Laden's Brother Arrested In Orlando, Sent To New York


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3bab892664b2.htm


Law Enforcement Sources, who have been 100% accurate on this story say a
man arrested in an Orlando suburb over the weekend is now confirmed as the
paymaster for the whole terrorist attack operation.

He has been using the name Ahmed Badawi, but FBI believes he is actually is
one of the many brothers of Osama Bin Laden!

The man, who FBI flew to New York in FBI aircraft yesterday, ran a travel
agency in Orlando called "Florida Sunny Summer Tours." He also ran a
national car delivery service and a check cashing service. The check
cashing service gave him ability to move large amounts of cash without
arousing suspicion at banks, etc. The car delivery service gave them
ability to move people around country with no records or cost.

More when we have it.

This is a major break... and a FReeper exclusive.


 Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT

   FROM THE DESK OF:

   *Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends

@admin.listbox.com.  In the message body put: unsubscribe cas

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] AP: Pentagon intelligence analyst accused of spying for Cuba


-Caveat Lector-

Pentagon intelligence analyst accused of spying for Cuba

By PETE YOST T
The Associated Press
9/21/01 6:51 PM


WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Pentagon intelligence analyst who attended war
games conducted by the U.S.  Atlantic Command in 1996 was charged Friday
with spying for Cuba.

Ana Belen Montes, an employee of the Defense Intelligence Agency,
transmitted a substantial amount of classified information to the Cuban
intelligence service, an FBI affidavit alleged.

Montes appeared before a U.S.  magistrate in Washington and was charged
with conspiracy to deliver U.S.  national defense information to Cuba.
She entered no plea and was ordered held without bond.

Montes has worked for the DIA, the intelligence arm of the Defense
Department, since 1985, authorities said.

In a 17-page affidavit, the FBI alleged that earlier this year Montes
contacted the Cuban intelligence service via shortwave radio.

The FBI secretly entered Montes' residence under a court order May 25
and uncovered information about several Defense Department issues,
including a 1996 war games exercise conducted by the U.S.  Atlantic
Command.

According to the affidavit, the DIA said that Montes attended the war
games exercise in Norfolk, Va., as part of her official duties at DIA.
The FBI said it found information on the hard drive of her laptop
computer.

One partially recovered message deals with "a particular special access
program related to the national defense of the United States," which is
so sensitive that it could not be publicly revealed in the court
documents, the document said.

According to the FBI's affidavit, some of the messages suggested that
Montes disclosed the upcoming arrival of a U.S.  military intelligence
officer in Cuba.

"As a result," the FBI said, "the Cuban government was able to direct
its counterintelligence resources against the U.S.  officer."

The FBI said Montes got a message back from her Cuban handlers stating,
"We were waiting here for him with open arms."

One message from her found on the hard drive was from her Cuban
intelligence service handler said that she had provided "tremendously
useful ...  information."

Another message from her Cuban contact said in regard to the 1996 war
games exercise: "Practically everything that takes place there will be
of intelligence value.  Let's see if it deals with contingency plans and
specific targets in Cuba."

The DIA confirmed that Montes and a colleague were briefed on the highly
sensitive program on May 15, 1997.

The FBI said they had Montes under surveillance since May.

A DIA spokesman declined to comment beyond saying when Montes had gone
to work for the agency.

The DIA, based at Bolling Air Force Base in southeast Washington, D.C.,
provides analyses of foreign countries' military capabilities and troop
strengths for Pentagon planners.  It also has offices within the
Pentagon.  Along with the CIA, National Security Agency and the National
Reconnaissance Office, the DIA is one of the main agencies of the U.S.
intelligence community.

The spokesman declined to say whether Montes worked at the Pentagon or
at Bolling Air Force Base.

In June, Mariano Faget, a U.S.  immigration official convicted of
disclosing classified information to aid Cuba, was sentenced to five
years in prison.

Faget, once the second-ranking immigration official in Miami, was
convicted after an investigation that also lead to the expulsion of a
Cuban spy.



 Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT

   FROM THE DESK OF:

   *Michael Spitzer* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends


http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fwd: [CTRL] PEARL HARBOR II: The Technology of Manipulation


-Caveat Lector-

>From: "Mrs. Jela Jovanovic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [CTRL] PEARL HARBOR II: The Technology of Manipulation
>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 11:29:12 +0200
>
>Dear readers!
>
>Here's another article from the Russian press about the US
>terrorist attacks.
>
>The URL of this page is:
>
>http://eairc.boom.ru/views/pearl.html
>
>===
>
>
>   PEARL HARBOR II: The Technology of Manipulation
> Did Washington know about the World Trade Center attacks in advance?
>
>  by
>G. Shcherbatov
>
> ARI (Agency of Russian Information),
>Sept. 12, 2001
>
> Translated from the Russian, slightly abridged and modified
>
>   Two years  ago, on the eve of the beginning of the 2nd Chechen War, when
>   apartment  houses were being blown up in Moscow,  evidence surfaced that
>   they  might have been  blown up  not by Chechen  terrorists, but by  the
>   Kremlin,  to create a  pretext to  declare war. Now  some are voicing  a
>   similar  theory in relation  to the  recent New York  terrorist attacks,
>   i.e.,  that Washington itself  had a  hand in them.  If this sounds  too
>   far-fetched for you, then read on.
>
>   Live coverage  of the attack was just getting underway in  New York, and
>   already  we were hearing  the words:  "Pearl Harbor, Pearl  Harbor. It's
>   another  Pearl Harbor!" Just how  accurate this comparison was  could be
>   judged by  the cold shiver that ran up my spine and the spines of others
>   who remember their history.
>
>   For  consumers of  hamburgers raised  on the  Hollywood version of  that
>   tragedy,  "Pearl Harbor!"  is a  rallying cry  to destroy the  infidels,
>   only  with Arabs this  time in the role  of the Japanese. I  can imagine
>   how  fat-bottomed housewives all over America shed  patriotic tears into
>   their popcorn  at the sight of those boys singing on  the Capitol steps.
>   Those  more  skeptical of  official American  propaganda, however,  will
>   find the following facts to be a good memory-refresher:
>
>   On  December 7, 1941  a surprise  Japanese air-attack over  Pearl Harbor
>   resulted  in   4574  casualties  (killed,  injured,  and  missing),  177
>   aircraft,  two  destroyers,  two  squadron  minesweepers  and a  lot  of
>   smaller  vessels destroyed. That day  went into US history as  a "day of
>   infamy".  This   has  been  pounded  into  the  heads  of  all  American
>   schoolchildren  for the  last 60  years. But what's  been beaten out  of
>   their heads just as insistently?
>
>   1.  On  January  27,  1941, the  US  ambassador  in Tokyo  informed  his
>   government  that  "in case  of conflict  between the  United States  and
>   Japan, the Japanese intend a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor".
>
>   2.  The  legendary  Soviet  agent  Richard  Sorge  informed  the  Soviet
>   Government  in October 1941  that "the  Japanese intend to  attack Pearl
>   Harbor  in  the  next  60  days,"  and  received  an  answer  that  this
>   information  had been  passed on to  President Roosevelt. (From  Sorge's
>   admission, published in the "New York Daily News" of May 17, 1951.)
>
>   3.  From September  1941 until  the moment of  the attack, all  Japanese
>   communiques intercepted  and deciphered by American intelligence pointed
>   to the  impending attack on Pearl Harbor, but they were not passed on to
>   local command:  Documents published after the war show that the American
>   base  in Hawaii  was deprived  of all  information about the  inevitable
>   attack.  Even such  agitprop  as the Discovery  Channel is in  agreement
>   with this.
>
>   4.  On December 1, 1941,  the head of the Far East Division  of US Naval
>   Intelligence wrote  in his report to the commander of the Pacific Fleet:
>   "War  between the  United States  and Japan  will begin  in the  nearest
>   future."  The report never reached the commander's desk,  because it was
>   "accidentally" detained by his superiors.
>
>   5.  On December 5, 1941 Colonel Sadtler from  US military communications
>   wrote  the following telegram to his command, based  on information he'd
>   received:   "War  with  Japan   will  begin  immediately;   exclude  all
>   possibility of a second Port Arthur." This telegram was also detained.
>
>   6.  The  Japanese'  answer to  Roosevelt's  ultimatum,  tantamount to  a
>   declaration  of war, was received by Washington on the  6th of December,
>   1941. Not a word of this was passed on to the Pearl Harbor command.
>
>   In  addition to these  incontrovertible facts  there are the  memoirs of
>   three  high-ranking commanders of the  US Navy, all participants  in the
>   events  surrounding  Pearl  Harbor: Rear  Admiral  Ki

[CTRL] Search: Project Bojinka (fwd)




-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:40:10 -0700
From: American Patriot Friends Network <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: American Patriot Friends Network <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Search: Project Bojinka

Airliner terror plan was code-named 'Project Bojinka'
http://disc.server.com/Indices/149495.html

Search: Project Bojinka
Displaying results 1-10 of 16 pages found
http://www.alltheweb.com/search?t=phrase&q=Project+Bojinka&c=web&o=10&l=any&sd=0&tip=0&phrase=on

U.S. Airlines may be a terror risk over next 3 days - June 2001
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=9879

Inquiry begins Into Intelligene
http://disc.server.com/Indices/149495.html

Dear Mr. Bush and fellow Americans:
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=9857

Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....

2001-09-21 Thread Marilyn Wright

-Caveat Lector-

Something like this occurred to me, too. Maybe there were no
terrorists aboard those planes. Maybe someone just added a
bunch of Arabic names to the passenger lists. We will certainly
never know. Whoever was on them was smashed to plaster dust.
The preportedly brilliant but misled perpetrators are already dead. A
perfect crime.

I mean, how do they know that there were 19 hijackers?
How do they know how many were aboard each plane?
(Did people report this in cell phone calls to relatives?)
And if terrorists didn't do it, how did whoever did do it convince 19
people to get on planes and kill themselves--let alone fly into
targets that would kill thousands of innocent people? And why so
many hijackers? It still seems impossible to believe that 19 people
were able to simultaneously hijack FOUR major airliners.

And that all the while passengers were contacting loved ones by
cell phone, no one was contacting 911 or central headquarters and
nothing was being done to deal with the situation.

At some point there was an interview with a Florida motel clerk who
reported that someone came in and paid a monthly rent for two of
the hijackers who were in flight school Apparently, from what she
said, this mysterious person paid with a credit card and  our brave
FBI were in the process of tracking that. What ever happened to
that "lead"?

Seems to me I also heard a report at some time (only once and
never again--on NBC-TV) that from what they heard through that
button that could be pressed in the cockpit, one of the original
pilots was at the controls when it hit one of the towers. I believe it
was when Brokaw was talking to that Christian Science Monitor
reporter. Huh???

On 21 Sep 01, at 12:56, Tony Dickinson wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> > In the US there is much talk about the notion, that this attack has
> > ushered in a "new breed of terrorist." That these were bright and
> > educated individuals as opposed to the desperate and angry outcasts
> > of yesterday.
> >
>
> New breeds are most certainly being revealed this time around, but, at
> very best, the evidence so far presented to the public suggest only
> that these 'bright and educated individuals' existed and may have
> posessed the skills suggested by their training. I'm sure that
> Manchurian candidates and straw persons alike come in many flavours.
> For example, whether they were the only 'foe' on board the aircraft,
> or did themselves carrying out the acts witnessed by us all remains
> unknown (at least to me). The discovery of Islamic and Arabic
> artifacts, IDs and paper trails by these guys appears a little odd to
> me (cocky, smart or diversive?) and our assumptive logical evaluations
> of such 'evidence' needs be treated with constant scrutiny.
>
> As another example, the assumption that the original pilots steered
> into the twin towers is now questionable in the minds of many, but how
> many of us would be willing to entertain the idea that a non-piloted
> remote control system could have been used to guide the hijacked
> aircraft to their new trajectories ? I'm not wanting to suggest that
> this is what actually happened, but posit as an explanatory option,
> the technology certainly exists.
>
> This possibility is not inconsistent with the view that a 'new breed
> of terrorist' as implied by the questioner does indeed now exist; but
> my point here, is that we may in the future be 'finding' any number of
> 'bright and educated individuals' on a crime scene, who by
> intellectual association and leaning seem to 'fit' suspect-profiles
> but MAY have little/no knowledge of their complicities. Hopefully I'm
> wrong.
>
> Thoughts ?
>
> Cheers,
>Tony.
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
> propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!
> These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many
> half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically
> by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the
> spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no
> endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial
> and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> ==
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[CTRL] Anarchy as Taliban lose control (fwd)


-Caveat Lector-

Anarchy as Taliban lose control
By Ahmed Rashid
(Filed: 21/09/2001)

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/21/wafg321.x
ml

LAW and order was breaking down in Kabul yesterday as Taliban soldiers and
poverty-stricken civilians carried out armed daylight robberies and looted
houses left empty by people who have fled.

In many areas of the Afghan capital, discipline among the Taliban appeared
to be collapsing ahead of an expected American assault.

"Armed men are entering people's homes under the guise of checking to see
if they have arms, are watching a film or listening to music [both banned
activities]," said one resident.

"The owner of the house lets them in because he has nothing to hide. Then
he and the male family members are rounded up and the women are forced to
hand over cash or jewellery."

Another complained: "I have lost everything." Crime was almost stamped out
in Kabul after the Taliban seized it in 1996. They cut the limbs off
thieves or hanged them from lamp posts.

Bringing law and order back to an anarchic country was one of the main
reasons for the Taliban's early popularity. The breakdown of law and order
demonstrates the rapid collapse of the militia's hierarchy.

It appears that soldiers are no longer obeying their officers.






[Forwarded For Information Purposes Only - Not
Necessarily Endorsed By The Sender - A.K. Pritchard]

--

A.K. Pritchard

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"The Constitution may not be perfect, but it's a
lot better than what the government is using these
days." --anon


>From  Mark E. Howerter's Web Page
"The Other Side of the News"
http://www.otherside.net/

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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Re: [CTRL] Report: Osama may have fled Afghanistan


-Caveat Lector-

Point of fact, I knew that

On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, RevCOAL wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Yardbird wrote:
> >I suspect both Pakistan and India will be angling to somehow get the US's
> >war on terrorism turned into the obliteration of its neighbour/arch-enemy.
>
> Point of fact, both India and Pakistan have their own nuclear
> capabilities...
>
>
> June
>
> ===
> Check out Alternative Kite Radio at
> http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com
>
> Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
> Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
> Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere)
> Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday)
> ===
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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> Om
>

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] Six Options Beyond War and Peace

2001-09-21 Thread Mark McHugh


-Caveat Lector-

`
http://reason.com/hod/jw092101.html



September 21, 2001



What Happens Next?
Six options beyond war and peace

By Jesse Walker

When the military prepares for action, the public debate is usually a
simple either/or: Will there be peace, or will there be war? Not so
now. Fresh from the bloody assaults on the World Trade Center and the
Pentagon, there are at least six choices before us, each with its own
subgenres and mutant variations. None is perfect, and one is actually
insane. But each is worth examining, if only to understand what
people actually mean when they call for war, peace, or some other
path they can't quite articulate.

Here, then, are our choices, beginning with the least violent and
ending with the most:

1. The Gandhi Option

Some favor no military response to the attacks at all. In its flaky
form, this position involves wishing really hard, perhaps while
holding someone's hand, that hatred and violence will disappear from
the world. Not every pacifist is so naive, though, and there is a
more sophisticated case for military inaction.

This argument points out that terrorists do not come from nowhere.
They respond to particular policies of the country under attack. If,
as the evidence suggests, the assault was masterminded by Osama bin
Laden or his allies, then it may well be easier to adjust our foreign
policy than to hunt down every terrorist in the Middle East,
especially since that hunt might inspire yet more Middle Easterners
to turn to terrorism. Wouldn't it make more sense just to stop these
clumsy interventions into other people's battles? Why make ourselves
a target for every tin-pot maniac in the Third World?

A variation on this argument notes that many of our present
foes--including Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein--were originally
built up by the United States to fight the enemies of an earlier day.
One can only wonder what our allies in a new war might do to us
several years later.

There are two problems with the Gandhi option. The first relates not
so much to the position itself as to some of the people who have been
advancing it. Obsessed with finding what "we" might have done to
"deserve" this--as though anyone deserves to die this way--the
hairshirt faction has conjured a list of sins far removed from
anything that could have inspired the attacks. When the filmmaker
Michael Moore speculated about the terrorists' motives, for example,
his rambling ruminations touched on missile defense, America's
withdrawal from the Durban conference on racism, and even our
rejection of the Kyoto accords on global warming. Evidently, Moore
believes that we are being attacked by European diplomats.

In the real world, we are being attacked by a group that--judging
from the fatwah issued by Osama bin Laden in 1998--objects to
America's military presence in Saudi Arabia, to its sanctions against
Iraq, and to its support for Israel. The point of reexamining U.S.
foreign policy in the wake of the attacks is not to find everything
about it that you might want to change, from Star Wars to Kyoto. It
is to find the parts that might be putting us in danger, even if
you've supported them until now. In the next few months, a lot of
Israel's American supporters will be wrestling with a difficult
choice: Israel's security, or their own? Many will choose the latter.

The other problem with Gandhianism goes deeper. Watching the World
Trade Center towers collapse last week, desperately aware that
thousands of people were inside them, most Americans did not merely
crave greater security. They wanted justice. If nothing is done to
capture the people responsible for that atrocity, it will be hard to
claim that justice has been done.

2. The Kojak Option

And so we come to option two. A terrible crime has been committed.
The immediate perps are now dead, but the conspirators behind them
are alive and free. They may be plotting further, even worse
assaults. We still aren't sure who they are or where they are, but we
have some significant leads. So it's time for some expert policework,
to track down and capture the people who did this.

The advantage to this approach is that it meets the demand for a
response while keeping that response targeted at the criminals. As
such, it upholds justice in two ways: by meting it out to the
murderers who killed 5,000 people in one day, and by refusing to
replicate their crime by killing anyone unfortunate enough to live in
the same country as the terrorists.

There are two disadvantages. One of them I'll describe later, as it
undermines the next two alternatives as well. The other is that, in
tracking terrorists through the mountains of central Asia, it won't
be easy to stick to all the legal niceties that policemen are
supposed to observe. And if it comes down to letting the likely
culprits escape or abandoning due process, most Americans will choose
the latter. At the very least, they will say, let us consider
response three:

3. The Bronson Option

Re: [CTRL] Authorities can't do anything about 7-foot phallic carving AP/Seattle PI

2001-09-21 Thread RevCOAL


-Caveat Lector-

Heck, seems to me that most flags are hoisted on phallic symbols...

As Melania Safka's "Psychotherapy" states...

"Freud's mystic world of meaning needn't have us mystified;
 It's really very simple what the psyche tries to hide --
 A thing is a phallic symbol if it's longer than it's wide,
 As the id goes marching on..."

;-)


June

===
Check out Alternative Kite Radio at
http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com

Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
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===

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] nazism's esoteric influences: ariosophy, an overview


-Caveat Lector-

and where, again, did the swastika come from?

where is shamanism originally from...keyword: sham -
to deceive...to woo...

--- Agent Smiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:22:11 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Agent Smiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: nazism's esoteric influences: ariosophy, an
> overview
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http://www.disinfo.com/pages/dossier/id869/pg1/
>
> nazism's esoteric influences: ariosophy, an overview
>
> by Matthew Mitchem ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - February
> 20, 2001
>
> Night of 27th-28th July, 1941.
> The National Socialist theory is to make use of all
> forces, wherever they may come from.
> ~ ~ Adolf Hitler (H.R. Trevor-Roper (ed.): 17)
> Part I: The Dark Side of History
>
> By Alex Burns
>
> The esoteric origin of the Nazi movement, as an
> explanation of Adolf Hitler's meteoric
> rise-to-power,
> and the genocidal "Final Solution" that resulted in
> the horrors of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Treblinka, has
> long haunted our collective imagination.
>
> Nowhere is the post-war fascination with the Nazis
> more felt than in the conspiracy and neo-Nazi
> communities. Since the publication of Jacques
> Bergier
> and Louis Pauwel's landmark book The Morning of the
> Magicians (New York: Avon Books, 1968), this
> fascination has transmuted into a fringe subculture,
> which constructs a crypt-history involving the
> secretive Thule Society, Antarctic bases and Nazi
> flying saucers.
>
> This fringe subculture fueled a 1970s publishing
> genre, featuring speculative books on the post-war
> survival of key Nazis (confirmed by "Project
> Paperclip"), the hunt for Martin Bormann, and rumors
> of a future Fourth Reich, financed by the shadowy
> ODESSA clique. This genre is best represented by
> Trevor Ravenscroft's The Spear of Destiny (G. P.
> Putman's Sons, 1973). Holocaust revisionist David
> Irving and conspiracy theorist David Icke have both
> exploited the genre's Dionysian fascination, which
> also infiltrated Hollywood's pop culture via Steven
> Spielberg's Indiana Jones films, and the Lucasfilm
> franchise.
>
> Yet despite Spielberg's mythopoeic vision, the genre
> is considered by historians and scholars as
> sensationalist, under-researched regarding "primary
> sources", and prone to repeating wild claims.
> Bergier
> and Pauwels, alongside Colin Wilson, speculated that
> Aleister Crowley and George Gurdjieff covertly
> assisted Nazism's rise-to-globalism. This scenario,
> relying on marginal evidence, overlooks Nazism's
> real
> fascination with magical, occult and philosophical
> systems. This would include Heinrich Himmler's
> Deutsches Ahnenerbe (Ancestral Heritage
> Organization),
> Hanns Horbiger's glacial cosmology (commonly known
> as
> the 1882 "Cosmic Ice" theory), and the search for
> the
> "Atlantis of the North" conducted by racialist
> philosopher Alfred Rosenberg and professor Hermann
> Wirth (Michael Edwardes: 226).
>
> We may laugh today at the Nazi belief in a Hollow
> Earth (Michael Edwardes: 228), safe in the universe
> where the Allies won. Post-humanism has eclipsed the
> specter of Ariosophy: a world ruled by gnostic
> initiates and Wotanist priesthoods, where an Aryan
> elite rules over non-Aryan slaves. But in a parallel
> universe . . .
>
> Bibliography:
>
> Michael Edwardes. The Dark Side of History: Magic in
> the Making of Man. London: Hart-Davis MacGibbon,
> 1978.
>
> Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke. The Occult Roots of
> Nazism:
> Secret Aryan Cults and Their Influence on Nazi
> Ideology. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1992.
>
> Michael Howard. The Occult Conspiracy. London:
> Rider,
> 1989.
>
> Gudio von List. Secret of the Runes. Rochester, VT:
> Destiny Books, 1988.
>
> Guido von List Der Unbesiegbare (The Invincible).
> Runa-Raven Books, 1996.
>
> Hermann Rauschning. The Return of Nihilism: Warning
> to
> the West. New York: Alliance Book Corporation, 1939.
>
> Trevor Ravenscroft. The Spear of Destiny. New York:
> G.
> P. Putman's Sons, 1973.
>
> Frederick C. Redlick. Hitler: Diagnosis of a
> Destructive Prophet. New York: Oxford University
> Press, 1999.
>
> H.R. Trevor-Roper (ed.). Hitler's Table Talk,
> 1941-1944. London: Weidenfeld and Nicholson, 1953.
>
>
>
>
> __
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> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute
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[CTRL] hasan bin sabbah and the secret order of hashishins


-Caveat Lector-

--- Agent Smiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:17:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Agent Smiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: hasan bin sabbah and the secret order of
> hashishins
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http://www.disinfo.com/pages/dossier/id985/pg1/
>
> hasan bin sabbah and the secret order of hashishins
> by Wes Moore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - March 22,
> 2001
>
>
> Hassan-I-Sabbah . . . the only spiritual leader with
> anything to say in the Space Age.
> ~~ William S. Burroughs
>
> Nothing is True, Everything is Permissible.
> ~~ Hasan bin Sabbah
>
>
> The story of Hasan bin Sabbah is a tale of sex,
> drugs,
> myth, and murder. A secluded mountain fortress, a
> paradisial garden, poison dipped daggers, and covert
> political maneuverings are the ingredients of this
> alchemical mixture, which is undoubtedly one of the
> most intriguing true stories ever told.
>
> Hasan bin Sabbah - businessman, scholar, heresiarch,
> mystic, murderer, ascetic, and political
> revolutionary
> - was born in Persia (Iran) around 1034. As a child,
> the man who would one day claim to be the
> incarnation
> of God on earth (probably just another way of saying
> he was Enlightened) was a diligent student of
> theology.
>
> Supposedly, Hasan was schoolmates with Nizamul Mulk
> (the future vizier to the sultan of Persia) and Omar
> Khayyam (the great poet/astronomer/mathematician).
> These three future luminaries made a pact whereas,
> if
> one of them reached a position of power and
> influence,
> he would assist his companions.
>
> As a young man, Hasan traveled to Egypt, where he
> remained for a year and a half. Here he was taught
> at
> the illustrious Abode of Learning in Cairo, which
> was
> a Shiite training center (the Shiites are a branch
> within the Islamic community, they broke off from
> the
> mainstream Sunnis after a dispute over who should
> succeed the prophet Muhammad).
>
> At the Abode, students were taught to question
> Islamic
> dogma, to the point where their only source of the
> truth lied in the teachings of their all-powerful
> instructors. The students had to ascend through nine
> degrees, until finally they were taught the Ultimate
> Truth: that the world is created through actions,
> and
> beliefs are powerless distractions used to enslave
> the
> masses. This system would later serve as the model
> for
> the organizational structure of the Hashishins . . .
>
> Hasan ran into trouble in Egypt, however, after a
> controversy arose over who should succeed the
> Fatimid
> caliph. The Fatimids, who ruled Egypt at the time,
> were the heads of the Ismailis, a sect of Islam that
> separated from the mainstream Shiites. Before the
> Fatimid caliph died, he appointed his youngest son
> to
> take over the dynasty, because his oldest son died
> before he did. This infuriated Sabbah, who believed
> the descendant of the caliph's oldest son, Nizar,
> was
> the rightful heir to the throne.
>
> Sabbah was imprisoned in Egypt for supporting Nizar,
> but, as luck would have it, the prison wall
> collapsed
> and he fled to Persia. While searching for a
> permanent
> residence, Hasan found a secluded fortress high in
> the
> mountains of Qazwin. This castle, called Alamut
> ("the
> eagle's nest") was the ideal stronghold for Hasan's
> new sect, the Nizari Ismailites (who later called
> themselves the "Hashishins"). Alamut was positioned
> in
> a central location, and so was an excellent hub from
> which Hasan could spread Ismaili propaganda.
>
> Hasan went about securing Alamut using subtle
> trickery
> and persuasion. Whilst bargaining with the owner of
> Alamut, he requested only a portion of land that
> could
> be covered by the skin of a cow. The owner agreed,
> not
> realizing how clever and resourceful Hasan could be.
> Hasan proceeded to divide a cow's hide into such
> thin
> layers that he was able to cover the entire surface
> area of the fortress. The owner was forced to live
> up
> to his end of the bargain, and Hasan now had a
> stronghold from which he could extend his influence
> throughout the Mideast and, indeed, the history of
> Western civilization.
>
> When word reached Nizamul Mulk (the childhood
> friend)
> of Hasan's securing of Alamut, he grew so inflamed
> with jealousy and rage that he sent an army to siege
> the fortress, a plot that failed miserably. For
> this,
> Hasan had Mulk killed by a dagger into the heart. So
> much for the pact.
>
> Within Alamut, Hasan built the legendary "Garden of
> Earthly Delights", which would play an important
> role
> in the initiatic rites of the Hashishins (also
> called
> the "Assassins").
>
> The garden lay in a beautiful valley nestled between
> two high mountains. Here he had imported exotic
> plants, birds, and animals from all over the world.
> Surrounding the garden were luxurious palaces of
> marble and gold, decorated with beautiful paintings
> and fine silk furniture. Streams of milk, wine, and
> honey flowed th

Re: [CTRL] Report: Osama may have fled Afghanistan

2001-09-21 Thread RevCOAL

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Yardbird wrote:
>I suspect both Pakistan and India will be angling to somehow get the US's
>war on terrorism turned into the obliteration of its neighbour/arch-enemy.

Point of fact, both India and Pakistan have their own nuclear
capabilities...

June

===
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Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
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[CTRL] more on Laden/Kashmir


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.hindunet.org/kashmir/pt_pak_kash_terror

http://www.hindunet.org/kashmir/inf_ind_kash_bkgd

http://www.hindunet.org/kashmir/wp_afghan_kashmir

http://membrane.com/opsec/kargil/next.html

http://www.subcontinent.com/sapra/terrorism/tr_1999_04_001.html



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[CTRL] check these out on bin Laden/Kashmir connection


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.public-i.org/excerpts_01_091301.htm

http://www.saag.org/papers3/paper266.html

http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=2612

http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/archives/archives98/98october04a.html

http://www.indian-express.com/ie/daily/2223/iin23032.html

http://www.dalitstan.org/mughalstan/laden/targetin.html

http://www.subcontinent.com/sapra/terrorism/tr_1998_12_001_s.html

http://www.terrorism.com/_trcctforum5/042d.htm

http://www.rediff.com/us/2001/sep/21pm.htm

and this started as a gut feeling!!!



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[CTRL] Arab columnists: The perpetrators of the attacks are not Arabs or Muslims (fwd)


-Caveat Lector-

Assalamu'alaikum,

Special Dispatch No. 270: Terror in America

Arab columnists: The perpetrators of the attacks are not Arabs or Muslims

http://memri.org/news.html#100003

Many columnists in the Arab media have discussed the identities of the
perpetrators of the New York and Washington, DC attacks. Some chose to
disregard the findings of the FBI investigation (that the perpetrators
were Arabs and/or Muslims), presenting instead a series of American and
international elements that they believe carried out the attacks.
Following is a review of possible perpetrators according to the Arab
media:


Bush and Powell Did It

The possibility that the US attacks were a conspiracy hatched by President
Bush and Secretary of State Powell was presented by Samir Atallah, a
columnist for the London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat. He wrote: "I have a
sneaking suspicion that George W. Bush was involved in the operation of
September 11, as was Colin Powell."


"The reasons for this are as follows: George W. Bush was the president who
has garnered the least support of all US presidents throughout history. He
won the election by a miniscule majority that would not have won a town
council [position] in a village in South Egypt. His presidency was in
doubt from the beginning. It was said that the poor way in which he
entered the White House would divide the American nation. It was said that
he is not worthy [of being president], that he is a man who takes no
interest in what is happening in the world, a man who does not know the
name of the president of Pakistan"


"[But] after September 11, George W. Bush is the first president since
Roosevelt with both parties behind him, with no one opposing him. He is
the first president in the history of the US to have received an
unprecedented amount of financial, political, and military support, and to
have it approved so quickly. He continues the line of the Bush family:
losers at peace, but leaders at war. Every George Bush in the family,
fathers and sons, has his own world war"


"Regarding the involvement of Colin Powell it was General Powell's fate to
be the one to declare war together with both George Bush Sr. and with
George Bush Jr. It might have been noticed that Powell was the first to
use the word 'war,' and the first to name Osama bin Laden. Just as he
commanded the military in Iraq, he will command diplomacy during the war
declared on the unknown"(1)


Israel, International Zionism, or the Jews Did It

This theory has been very popular among various columnists in the Arab
media. Columnist Ahmad Al-Muslih, for example, stated: "What happened is,
in my opinion, the product of Jewish, Israeli, and American Zionism, and
the act of the great Jewish Zionist mastermind that controls the world's
economy, media, and politics"


"The goal of the suicide operations in New York was, in my opinion, to
push the American people, President Bush, and NATO to submit even more to
the Jewish Zionist ideology and the historical goals [it has held] since
the Basel Congress in 1897, under the Zionist-Jewish slogan of 'Islamic
terror' We have said in the past that Jewish-Israeli-American Zionism is
leading the region to disaster, and that it is trying to lead the
Americans and its worldwide allies to world disaster. Perhaps what
happened on American [ground] is the beginning of the world disaster."(2)


The Lebanese-Jordanian Holocaust denier Hayat Al-Hweiek 'Atiya also
hastened to point an accusing finger: "Maybe some will think that I am
hallucinating things when I speak of Jewish Zionist hands behind the
terrible event that struck at the US. Maybe [they will say] that this is
one of many hands. But anyone following the reactions has noticed one
headline: the American-Zionist-Israeli 'Holy Alliance' indicate that
"international terror" is to blame. By international terror, [this
alliance] means, first and foremost, Islam and the Arabs"


Al-Hweiek 'Atiya continues: "In a lengthy interview with the Arab League
representative in Paris for the [Egyptian] French-language Al-Nil
television channel, [the representative] refrained from pointing directly
at the Jews, because as an official he cannot do such a thing before an
investigation reveals it, but he [implied] it"


"We must direct all diplomatic and media efforts not only towards washing
our hands of it and denying our involvement from the defendant's seat but
also to [launching] a counter-campaign that will shift us to a stronger
offensive position."(3)


Jordanian columnist Rakan Al-Majali wrote that "it is clear that Israel is
the one to benefit greatly from the bloody, loathsome terror operation
that occurred yesterday, and that it seeks to benefit still more by
accusing the Arabs and Muslims of perpetrating this loathsome attack Only
Israel does not fear the discovery that the Jews are behind this
operation, if indeed it was so; who in the US or outside it would dare to
accuse them, as every blow to them means talk of a new '

[CTRL] 1993 - AFGHANS JOINING REBELS IN KASHMIR


-Caveat Lector-

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Subject: Some articles on Kashmir (14)
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Source :NEW YORK TIMES, August 24th, 1993

  AFGHANS JOINING REBELS IN KASHMIR.

Indian Officials Assert Islamic Guerrillas Are
Fighting For Muslim Separatists.
---

By SANJOY HAZARIKA, Special to The New York Times.

NEW DELHI, Aug. 23 - Hundreds of  battle-hardened
Afghan rebels have slipped into the northern Indian
state of Jammu and Kashmir and  are fighting along-
side local Muslim separatists and raising the level of
the insurgency against Indian troops, intelligence
officials said today.
  "There are about 200 Afghans fighting in Kashmir but
we believe that the total figure of foreign fighters
is about 400," said an Indian official,who is closely
associated with intelligence operations in Kashmir.
  He said that interrogation of one captured Afghan
and of Kashmiri militants indicated that the Afghans
were mostly members of the Hezb-i-Islami party of
the Afghan Prime Minister, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar.

 An Experienced Adversary.

  "Essentially,the presence especially of the Afghans
means a tougher confrontation for the security forces,
because these are veterans of the war against
Russia and against other insurgents, they understand
strategy, are experts in explosives and ambush and
capable of fighting long battles," said this security
expert.
  He and other officials who asked not to be named,
said that an increase in the number of attacks on
police and army officials - aimed at specific middle-
level figures - indicated a new dimension to the
insurgency.
  The Afghans and the other supposed foreign nationals
are reportedly working with several anti-Indian
militant groups, including fighters from the powerful
Party Of God and several function as bodyguards for
Kashmiri militant leaders, security officials said.
  One official said the Afghans comprised the bulk of
the foreign militants but Muslims of other
nationalities also were involved, including people
from the Pakistani part of Kashmir, Bahrain, Saudi
Arabia and Sudan.

Ambush Of Border Unit.

The experience of the Afghan war was displayed in one
incident, the Indian official said, when Afghan led
rebels inflicted a stinging defeat on Indian
troops. They ambushed and killed 10 members of a
paramilitary Border Security Force patrol and captured
four. The Indians have not yet been freed.
  Government reports made available to a reporter said
at least 29 Afghans were killed in Gun battles with
Indian troops in Kashmir between September 1992
and the middle of July 1993. The total number of
foreign nationals killed according to this account was
at least 63, including 22 from Pakistan.
  Thousands of Kashmiris have died since the revolt
against India began in September 1989 in battles
between Indian forces and Kashmiri separatists, in
clashes among the militants as well as in attacks on
unarmed civilians.

Hindus Flee Kashmir.

Since 1990, more than 250,000 Hindu Kashmiris have
fled the Vale of Kashmir, the center of the main
fighting between Indian troops and the Kashmiris. Many
of them have settled in crowded and unsanitary refugee
camps in the Hindu dominated Jammu and have also come
to New Delhi and other cities.
   Refugees have charged that the Islamic militants
have attacked and robbed them and raped women. Some of
these accusations have been supported by Indian
and International human rights groups.

   ( E N D )







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[CTRL] theorizing still


-Caveat Lector-

I wish now that I had paid closer attention to the
CIA's activities in Kashmir in the past two years.  My
gut tells me there is a connection - much bloodshed
there recently.  Anyone?

How about the Taliban's eradication of 95% of
Afghanistan's 2001 opium crop?  That could prompt a
quick response from America's biggest drug dealer -
Bush Jr.  Need I remind y'all that the Balkans were
the western hempisphere's biggest funnel for heroin?

Sometimes I wonder if 90% of the last thousand years'
wars aren't drug wars...


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[CTRL] FBI deepen probe as doubts grow over terrorists' identities (fwd)


-Caveat Lector-

Assalamu'alaikum,

FBI deepen probe as doubts grow over terrorists' identities

WASHINGTON, Sept 21 (AFP) -

http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/afp/article.html?s=asia/headlines/010921/world/afp/FBI_deepen_probe_as_doubts_grow_over_terrorists__identities.html

FBI agents across the United States were Friday deepening their probe into
the men who hijacked the planes in September 11's terrorist attacks after
worrying doubts emerged over their true identities.

As US allies rallied to help trace the attackers as well as their sources
of finance, FBI Director Robert Mueller conceded Thursday that the names
of some of the 19 men earlier identified by Washington as the hijackers
had been called into question.

FBI investigators in Chicago were questioning 34-year-old Nabil Marabh,
who was picked up Wednesday on suspicion of having aided the men who
commandeered four jetliners and flew three of them into New York's World
Trade Center and Washington's Pentagon on September 11.

President George W. Bush late Thursday singled out a militant Islamic
group led by Osama bin Laden, a Saudi-born exile believed to be hiding in
Afghanistan, as the chief culprit.

"The evidence we have gathered all points to a collection of loosely
affiliated terrorist organizations known as al-Qaeda," Bush told a joint
session of Congress. "They are the same murderers indicted for bombing
American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, and responsible for the bombing
of the USS Cole."

But, despite the detention of four other people considered material
suspects -- individuals believed to have information vital to the probe --
US officials have produced no public evidence linking the hijackers to bin
Laden.

Part of the problem facing investigators is the emerging belief that at
least some of the 19 hijackers used stolen identification.

In Washington, the Saudi embassy said Thursday that two Saudi citizens
identified by the FBI as hijackers were alive and had their passports
stolen years ago.

Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal, who was visiting Washington,
said at least five Saudis on the FBI list "had no connection at all with
what happened."

The New York Times said Marabh was believed to be a "close associate" of
bin Laden, and could provide the first formal link between the illusive
millionaire and the attack.

But the head of the FBI's Chicago office, Kathleen McChesney, said they
were still trying to establish his identity, adding: "We still have a lot
of work to do."

Agents searching for Marabh had 48 hours earlier arrested at his home in
Detroit three men of Arab descent and found false documents, maps of the
city's international airport and documents on a US base in Turkey.

They were Ahmed Hannan, 33, Karim Kubriti, 23, and Faruk Ali-Halmud, 21,
the FBI said.

According to the spokeswoman, investigators found a notebook with notes in
Arabic about "a US base in Turkey," about the "US Secretary of State,"
about Jordan's Alia airport, its runways and air corridors above it.

But just as the worldwide probe into atrocities which left more than 6,800
people feared dead appeared to get a fillip, FBI Director Mueller admitted
that there were doubts over the true identities of the hijackers.

"We have several hijackers whose identities were those on the manifests,
we have several others (who) are still in question," Mueller said in
Shanksville, Pennsylvania, the site of the crash of one of four passenger
jets hijacked in the terror blitz.

Mueller had said last week that his bureau had "a fairly high level of
confidence" its list of 19 names reflected those of the attackers.

Doubts over the identities of at least some of the men first emerged from
news reports.

One Arabic newspaper said Abdulaziz Alomari, identified as one of the
suicide hijackers on the first plane to slam into the World Trade Center
on September 11, is alive and in Saudi Arabia and that his passport was
stolen several years ago.

Saudi officials have reportedly warned that the terrorists may have been
using stolen identity documents when they boarded the doomed aircraft.

The reports prompted US officials to begin investigating whether some or
all of the 19 suspects had used stolen identities, possibly seriously
complicating efforts to link them to Osama bin Laden.

"The use of false identities is standard in terrorism, but it certainly
makes it much harder to trace the act back to its leader and to establish
links between terrorist cells," said expert Professor Anthony Cordesman of
the Centre for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

Investigators are sifting through more than 96,000 leads and searched for
nearly 200 people wanted for questioning about the attack, as tentacles of
the probe spread across the globe and Washington's war on terror gathered
pace.

In Yemen, dozens of suspected followers of bin Laden were arrested while
Lebanese police opened an investigation into Ziad Samir Jarrah, a suspect
in the terro

[CTRL] 1998 - The US Bares its Fangs to its Flunkeys


-Caveat Lector-

http://rawa.hackmare.com/attack-e.htm

The US Bares its Fangs
to its Flunkeys



Last night the world was astounded by the news of US
missile strikes against targets in Afghanistan and the
Sudan.

RAWA has in the past repeatedly warned that the US
GOVERNMENT is no friend of the people of Afghanistan,
primarily because during the past two decades she did
not spare any effort or expense in training and arming
the most sordid, the most treacherous, the most
misogynic and anti-democratic indigenous Islamic
fundamentalist gangs and innumerable crazed Arab
fanatics in Afghanistan and in unleashing them upon
our people. After the retreat of the Russian
aggressors and the collapse of Najib's puppet regime
in Afghanistan these fundamentalist entities became
all the more wildly unbridled. They officially and
wholeheartedly accepted the yoke of servitude to the
interests of foreign governments, in which capacity
they have perpetrated such crimes and atrocities
against the people of Afghanistan that no parallel can
be found in the history of any land on earth.

It is no secret that Afghan fundamentalists headed by
Burhanuddin Rabbani, Karim Khalili, Rasul Sayyaf,
Ahmad Shah Masoud, Golbuddin Hekmatyar, Yunis Khalis,
Mullah Omar and associates such as Dostum and his like
have all been nurtured in the lap of the CIA. It was
the CIA that gave all these nobodies name and fame and
supported them in their power-grabbing and
fiefdom-building ploys and plots. Now the US is out to
hunt down Osama bin Laden, an old Arab operative
raised and trained by the CIA who is cohabiting with
the Taliban and bankrolling the decimation of our
compatriots in the Taliban's dog-fights with their
Jihadi brethren-in-creed. The US made maximum use of
Arab mercenaries in her dogged determination to undo
her superpower rival, the Soviet Union, but now the
old myrmidons have become too much of an ungrateful
nuisance. The US is the ally [read master] and sponsor
of quite a number of anti-democratic fundamentalist
states and entities in the world, therefore the United
States' quarrel with her protégés, whether Arabs or
Taliban or Jihadis, is nothing but a "domestic"
dispute between lord and vassal.

RAWA roundly condemns the US air strikes against
Afghanistan because the impoverished masses of
Afghanistan --already trapped in the dog-fighting
between the US's Taliban and Jihadi flunkeys-- are the
ones who are most hurt in the attacks, and also
because the US, like the arrogant superpower she is,
has violated the sovereignty of the Afghan people and
the territorial integrity of the Afghan homeland.

The US is against fundamentalist terrorism to the
extent and until such time as her proper interests are
jeopardised; otherwise she is all too happy to be a
friend and sponsor of any fundamentalist-terrorist
criminal entity. If the US does not want her
ridiculous bigotry to show and really wants to
eliminate fundamentalist terrorism, she should draw
lessons from her own past myopic policies and realise
that the sources of fundamentalist terrorism are
America's support to the most reactionary regimes in
Arab and non-Arab countries and her military and
financial largesse to Afghan fundamentalist criminals.
Terrorism will be uprooted only when these two sources
are dried up.

The US air strike against Afghanistan is particularly
shameful and worthy of condemnation because it comes
at a time when the Iranian regime, under the pretext
of aiding and supporting the Masood, Rabbani and
Dostum bands and its Shiite myrmidons, are openly
talking of military intervention in Afghanistan, and
Russia and the Central Asian republics are speaking
out in support of their Jihadi lackeys. It is not
surprising that minutes after the news of the attack
went on the air, the so-called Afghan ambassador in
London, Ahmad Wali Masood (brother of Ahmad Shah
Masood) in an interview with the BBC condoned and
welcomed the American air strikes and asked the US to
break in the Taliban by expanding and increasing such
attacks, because the Taliban "had taken delivery of
Osama bin Laden from the ISI". The utterances of this
mean thief clearly shows the opportunism of Jihadi
traitors who stoop to any baseness and conspiracy when
things become too uncomfortable for them.

The Jihadi traitors should understand that just as the
Taliban ignoramus-cum-criminals' anti-American
outpourings and their defence of Osama bin Laden
cannot cleanse them in the eyes of our people of the
infamy of their American-sponsored spawning, in the
same manner the mark of shame and disgrace on the
Jihadis' foreheads cannot be washed away, because till
yesterday the greater part of the CIA cash-and-arms
pipeline was being poured down their throats, and
today the same fundamentalist cut-throat Jihadi bands
have become servile mercenaries serving Iranian,
Indian and Tajikistani interests.

It would be a grave mistake if the governments of the
US, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Tajikistan and India
were to

[CTRL] PEARL HARBOR II: The Technology of Manipulation

2001-09-21 Thread Mrs. Jela Jovanovic




Dear readers!Here's another article from 
the Russian press about the USterrorist attacks.The URL of this page 
is:   
http://eairc.boom.ru/views/pearl.html===  
PEARL HARBOR II: The Technology of Manipulation    Did 
Washington know about the World Trade Center attacks in 
advance? 
by   
G. 
Shcherbatov    
ARI (Agency of Russian 
Information),   
Sept. 12, 2001    Translated from 
the Russian, slightly abridged and modified  Two years  ago, 
on the eve of the beginning of the 2nd Chechen War, when  
apartment  houses were being blown up in Moscow,  evidence surfaced 
that  they  might have been  blown up  not by 
Chechen  terrorists, but by  the  Kremlin,  to create 
a  pretext to  declare war. Now  some are voicing  
a  similar  theory in relation  to the  recent New 
York  terrorist attacks,  i.e.,  that Washington itself  
had a  hand in them.  If this sounds  too  far-fetched 
for you, then read on.  Live coverage  of the attack was just 
getting underway in  New York, and  already  we were 
hearing  the words:  "Pearl Harbor, Pearl  Harbor. It's  
another  Pearl Harbor!" Just how  accurate this comparison was  
could be  judged by  the cold shiver that ran up my spine and the 
spines of others  who remember their history.  For  
consumers of  hamburgers raised  on the  Hollywood version 
of  that  tragedy,  "Pearl Harbor!"  is a  rallying 
cry  to destroy the  infidels,  only  with Arabs 
this  time in the role  of the Japanese. I  can imagine  
how  fat-bottomed housewives all over America shed  patriotic tears 
into  their popcorn  at the sight of those boys singing on  
the Capitol steps.  Those  more  skeptical of  official 
American  propaganda, however,  will  find the following 
facts to be a good memory-refresher:  On  December 7, 
1941  a surprise  Japanese air-attack over  Pearl 
Harbor  resulted  in   4574  casualties  
(killed,  injured,  and  missing),  177  
aircraft,  two  destroyers,  two  squadron  
minesweepers  and a  lot  of  smaller  vessels 
destroyed. That day  went into US history as  a "day of  
infamy".  This   has  been  pounded  into  
the  heads  of  all  American  schoolchildren  
for the  last 60  years. But what's  been beaten out  
of  their heads just as insistently?  1.  On  
January  27,  1941, the  US  ambassador  in Tokyo  
informed  his  government  that  "in case  of 
conflict  between the  United States  and  Japan, the 
Japanese intend a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor".  2.  
The  legendary  Soviet  agent  Richard  Sorge  
informed  the  Soviet  Government  in October 1941  
that "the  Japanese intend to  attack Pearl  Harbor  
in  the  next  60  days,"  and  received  
an  answer  that  this  information  had been  
passed on to  President Roosevelt. (From  Sorge's  admission, 
published in the "New York Daily News" of May 17, 1951.)  3.  
>From September  1941 until  the moment of  the attack, all  
Japanese  communiques intercepted  and deciphered by American 
intelligence pointed  to the  impending attack on Pearl Harbor, 
but they were not passed on to  local command:  Documents 
published after the war show that the American  base  in 
Hawaii  was deprived  of all  information about the  
inevitable  attack.  Even such  agitprop  as the 
Discovery  Channel is in  agreement  with this.  
4.  On December 1, 1941,  the head of the Far East Division  of 
US Naval  Intelligence wrote  in his report to the commander of 
the Pacific Fleet:  "War  between the  United States  
and Japan  will begin  in the  nearest  future."  
The report never reached the commander's desk,  because it was  
"accidentally" detained by his superiors.  5.  On December 5, 
1941 Colonel Sadtler from  US military communications  wrote  
the following telegram to his command, based  on information he'd  
received:   "War  with  Japan   will  
begin  immediately;   exclude  all  possibility of 
a second Port Arthur." This telegram was also detained.  6.  
The  Japanese'  answer to  Roosevelt's  ultimatum,  
tantamount to  a  declaration  of war, was received by 
Washington on the  6th of December,  1941. Not a word of this was 
passed on to the Pearl Harbor command.  In  addition to 
these  incontrovertible facts  there are the  memoirs 
of  three  high-ranking commanders of the  US Navy, all 
participants  in the  events  surrounding  Pearl  
Harbor: Rear  Admiral  Kimmel,  head of  the  
Pacific   Fleet;  Fleet  Admiral  Halsey,  
under   Kimmel's  command  in  December, 
1941;  and Rear Admiral Theobald, commander of the minesweeper  
squadron at Pearl Harbor.  From Kimmel's  memoirs: "It was 
part of Roosevelt's plan that no warning  be  sent  to  
the  Hawaiian  Islands.  Our leaders  in  
Washington,  who  deliberately  didn't  inform  
our  forces  in  Pearl Harbor,

[CTRL] Fwd: [GATA] Demand for gold coins rises dramatically






By David Bogoslaw
Dow Jones Newswires
September 21, 2001

NEW YORK -- While the price of gold has disappointed
some traders by not rising further on the financial and
political uncertainty arising from last week's terrorist
attacks, physical demand for bullion coins has
skyrocketed in recent days.

"Retail demand is through the roof," Frank McGhee, a
dealer at Alliance Financial LLC in Chicago, said.

"I want them, I want them in my possession, I want to
bury them in the backyard," is the overriding sentiment
by small investors who, for the most part have, haven't
shown much interest in the coin market in recent years,
he explained.

While bullion coins have a face value, such as $50 for
the American Gold Eagle, they are priced according
to the market value of the metal they contain. The Gold
Eagle contains 1 troy ounce of gold.

Michael Alster, marketing director for coin dealer
Eastern Numismatis, Inc. in Garden City, N.Y., estimated
demand for bullion coins has risen by 30 percent over
normal levels during the past week, with nine out of 10
calls being for Gold Eagles.

"People are walking in and buying them right off of the
counter," he said.

Mike Tordella, president of Manfra Tordella and
Brooke (MTB Inc.), a New York-based wholesaler and
retailer of precious metal coins and bars, averred that
volume had increased at least fivefold since the attacks.
He saw gold fulfilling its role as a safe haven in times
of crisis.

"We're getting calls from financial planners who are
looking for a half million or even a million dollars' worth
of gold for their clients," Tordella said. "That represents
a rather small portion of an individual portfolio, but it's a
lot more than what people had been considering
previously."

Many investment managers agree that by holding
between 5 and 10 percent of their portfolios in the form of
precious metals, individual investors can reduce the
overall risk in their portfolios. But until recently the
monetary returns on holding gold, silver and platinum
have been small compared with returns realized from
equity investments, which limited demand.

While coin demand vaulted higher last week, now
that equity markers have lost more than 13 percent of
their value this week, people have begun to pull back,
reluctant to buy much of anything, noted Mike Fuljenz,
president of Universal Coin and Bullion in Beaumont,
Texas.

"This is what happens historically. Going back to Black
Monday (on the New York Stock Exchange in October
1987), whenever you have crisis, you see an initial surge,
then a little pullback, because people get a little worried
because they may have lost 15 to 20 percent of their net
worth in the stock market," he explained.

As the equity markets find their footing and stabilize in
the months ahead, more investors will flock to coins,
however, he predicted.

"Three to six months after the events occur, we go into
major bull demand," he said, citing historical precedents
such as the aftermath of President Nixon's resignation in
1974 and the Iran hostage crisis in 1980. "People
become more willing to diversify."

When they do, he added, taking only a little bit out of
equities investments gives a large boost to the value of
precious metals.

The surge in bullion coin demand may result in a shortage
for a while, as the U.S. Mint was caught unprepared for the
run on coins, having been maintaining a minimal inventory
over the last year due to lack of demand, according to
McGhee at Alliance Financial.

The Mint has had problems getting enough planchets, or
striking blanks, for the minting of the bullion coins, Alster
at Eastern Numismatics, agreed.

No comment was available from the Mint.

MTB's Tordella didn't see the Mint's low supply as a
lasting problem, however.

"The Mint can keep minting as much as demand
requires. It can crank up production very quickly," he
said.

Nor was he concerned, he said, with the expanded
supply of gold bullion in private investors' hands that
could easily flow back into the market and force prices
down once the financial and political threats had abated.

"Traditionally, gold has been a one-way metal," he said.
"People buy it and hold it for a very long time. I don't
often sell people half a million dollars' (worth of gold) for
their portfolio and have them sell it back in six months'
time."

Alliance's McGhee cited an increase in the premium of
coins to the underlying spot gold price from $5 an ounce
before the attacks to $10.50 to $15 an ounce afterwards.
But Tordella at MTB hadn't seen premiums rise that much.

"The market tends to spread itself a lot between bids
and offers," he explained. "Dealers are working over the
phone rather than working off a stable pricing system.
We've been having trouble getting (price updates)
because communication lines have been damaged.

-END-



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Re: [CTRL] Israel: No Compromise in Terror War

2001-09-21 Thread Saba


-Caveat Lector-

Joshua2 - tell me have you ever come up with an original thought in your
life for you Marxists are all alike.

Always wondered why Karl Marx hated jews - well after you, what else is
new - asshole.

Hello to you little Marxist friends.
Special hello to Moshe the Masher - tell me is this your wife?

Sayonara Mr. Schwartz an Salaam.

O'Saba

PS:   The only Schwartz I ever new had a son who wanted to be a
"swineherd"is that you?

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fwd: [The_Spike] Activist Berrigan confined alone after terrorist attacks

2001-09-21 Thread Prudence L. Kuhn

In a message dated 09/21/2001 1:14:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Subj: [The_Spike] Activist Berrigan  confined alone after terrorist 
attacks
 Date:  09/21/2001 1:14:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time
 From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Judith Hill)
 Reply-to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Spike List)

 Activist Berrigan confined alone after terrorist attacks

 By Carl Schoettler
 Sun Staff
 Originally published September 21, 2001
 http://sunspot.net/news/nationworld/bal-te.prisoner21sep21.story

 The 77-year-old peace activist Philip F. Berrigan was immediately shifted
 into solitary confinement at a federal penitentiary Sept. 11 when terrorists
 crashed hijacked airliners into the Pentagon and World Trade Center.

 Berrigan was among a number of "high-profile" inmates segregated from the
 general population in federal prisons across the nation, according to
 Internet messages received Wednesday at Jonah House, the Roman Catholic
 anti-war community that Berrigan helped found in Baltimore nearly 30 years
 ago.

 "Phil's in lockdown," said Elizabeth McAlister, Berrigan's wife, who is also
 a founder of Jonah House. "We don't even know if he's getting mail. We know
 he's not writing."

 Berrigan is confined in the Federal Correctional Institution at Elkton,
 Ohio, a low-security prison.

 Jonah House members believe that on Sept. 11 federal prison authorities also
 segregated Leonard Peltier, the Native American activist in prison for the
 killing of two FBI agents in 1975, and Marilyn Buck, convicted of joining a
 Black Liberation Army robbery of an armored truck during which two police
 officers and a Brink's guard were killed.

 Berrigan has about three months to go on a sentence of a year and a day for
 violation of parole in connection with an anti-war demonstration at a naval
 base in Maine.

 McAlister says she made about 15 phone calls to the prison Wednesday before
 she learned that Berrigan was in segregation.

 In a letter asking for help from Maryland Sen. Barbara A. Mikulski, she said
 that her husband was not allowed visitors or phone calls.

 "I was not told why or for how long," she said. She was assured he was
 permitted to write letters. But she said she has not received any mail from
 him since before Sept. 11.

 An aide to the senator was told that Berrigan was placed in segregation as a
 result of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and that
 it was "for his own protection."

 Officials at the Elkton prison referred questions to the federal Bureau of
 Prisons.

 Traci Billingsley, a Bureau of Prisons spokeswoman, said: "All institutions
 have taken appropriate security measures to make sure the institutions and
 inmates are secure."

 Copyright © 2001, The Baltimore Sun >>

Activist Berrigan confined alone after terrorist attacks

By Carl Schoettler
Sun Staff
Originally published September 21, 2001
http://sunspot.net/news/nationworld/bal-te.prisoner21sep21.story

The 77-year-old peace activist Philip F. Berrigan was immediately shifted
into solitary confinement at a federal penitentiary Sept. 11 when terrorists
crashed hijacked airliners into the Pentagon and World Trade Center.

Berrigan was among a number of "high-profile" inmates segregated from the
general population in federal prisons across the nation, according to
Internet messages received Wednesday at Jonah House, the Roman Catholic
anti-war community that Berrigan helped found in Baltimore nearly 30 years
ago.

"Phil's in lockdown," said Elizabeth McAlister, Berrigan's wife, who is also
a founder of Jonah House. "We don't even know if he's getting mail. We know
he's not writing."

Berrigan is confined in the Federal Correctional Institution at Elkton,
Ohio, a low-security prison.

Jonah House members believe that on Sept. 11 federal prison authorities also
segregated Leonard Peltier, the Native American activist in prison for the
killing of two FBI agents in 1975, and Marilyn Buck, convicted of joining a
Black Liberation Army robbery of an armored truck during which two police
officers and a Brink's guard were killed.

Berrigan has about three months to go on a sentence of a year and a day for
violation of parole in connection with an anti-war demonstration at a naval
base in Maine.

McAlister says she made about 15 phone calls to the prison Wednesday before
she learned that Berrigan was in segregation.

In a letter asking for help from Maryland Sen. Barbara A. Mikulski, she said
that her husband was not allowed visitors or phone calls.

"I was not told why or for how long," she said. She was assured he was
permitted to write letters. But she said she has not received any mail from
him since before Sept. 11.

An aide to the senator was told that Berrigan was placed in segregation as a
result of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and that
it was "for his own protection."

Officials at the Elkton prison referred questions to

[CTRL] O & R


-Caveat Lector-

From


}}}>Begin
September 20,  2001
Occupation
and Resistance
By Carl Estabrook
[Note: This was written before  the attacks on New York and the
Pentagon, but it deals with an  issue that is bound up with the
attacks and with the war that  Washington seems about to loose upon
the world.  It occurs to  me to send it around now because of a
report carried by Agence  France Presse last Friday, quoting an
interview by Israeli Defense  Minister Binyamin Ben Eliezer with the
newspaper Yediot Aharonot.   He noted that "the international
community has been silent  about the recent Israeli killing of
Palestinians in the West  Bank" because of the attacks on the US. "It
is a fact that we have killed 14 Palestinians in Jenin, Kabatyeh and
Tammun,  with the world remaining absolutely silent. It's a disaster
for Arafat," Ben Eliezer told the Yediot. It seems more important

  now than it's been in a while for us to try to understand the  real
situation in the US and it client states -- rejecting the propaganda
persistently propounded by pundit and professor.-CGE]
Each day the media bring us new accounts  of killings in the Middle
East, described as the result of "fighting  between Israelis and
Palestinians," and we wonder why these  people can't simply be
reasonable, like us, and stop it. The  news reports rarely point out
that on one side stands perhaps  the second-strongest military in the
world, armed and supplied  by US money, and on the other a subject
people with no army or  heavy weapons, but who do have the weapon of
the powerless --  their willingness to die. And the media hardly ever
point out  that the killing goes on in a region under military
occupation  by Israel, a military occupation that is not only brutal,
as  military occupations often are, but entirely illegal under
international  law.
It could be argued that Israel's  military occupation of the "West
Bank" (of the Jordan River) and the "Gaza Strip" (a parcel of land at
Israel's  southwest corner) are even more clearly illegal than, say,
Germany's  military occupation of France in World War II.  In June of
1940,  after a rapid invasion, the German army occupied three-fifths

 of France and secured the collaboration of the French government
 at Vichy that controlled the rest of the country.  In June of  1967,
after a rapid invasion, the Israeli army occupied the West Bank and
Gaza, and, with the Oslo Accords of 1993, secured the  collaboration
of the Palestinian Authority that now controls  some parts of the
occupied territories.  But UN Security Council  Resolution 242 in
1967 demanded the complete withdrawal of Israel from the occupied
territories; instead, Israeli governments continued  the occupation
and continued to establish settlements of its citizens throughout the
occupied region, settlements in violation  of international law as
stated in the Fourth Geneva Convention  of 1949, which was designed
precisely to make illegal what Germany  had done in the Second World
War.
In France, to the dismay of  the Vichy government, a resistance
movement (maquis) grew up  against the invaders almost immediately.
In Palestine, the resistance  has been much more sporadic, in part
because of the far tighter  control the Israeli army was able to
exercise: in 1987 a resistance  movement (intifada) broke out in the
Jebalia refugee camp in  Gaza, spread to the rest of the occupied
Territories, and lasted  until 1993 -- a popular uprising, it came as
a surprise to the  PLO, then in exile in Tunisia; and then a year
ago, popular resistance  against occupation broke out again, out of
the control of the  Palestinian
Authority.
We honor the French Resistance,  because it can hardly be doubted
that there is a right to resist illegal military occupation.  The
German rule in France was famously  brutal, especially after the
Germans occupied the rest of the  country (as many American
columnists are now advising the Israelis  to do).  Thousands were
said to have been killed by the occupying  forces in reprisals for
attacks on members of the occupying army,  although of course many of
the French collaborated with the invaders  as well.
Outside the area "served"  by the US media, the real situation today
in the Middle East  is known to be similar.  At a large meeting of
NGOs ("non-governmental  organizations" -- service groups actually
involved in alleviating  suffering around the world) parallel to the
recent World Conference  against Racism in Durban, South Africa,
3,000 delegates from  44 regions agreed to a resolution referring to
Israel as a "racist apartheid state" guilty of "war crimes, acts of
genocide  and ethnic cleansing."
At the racism conference itself,  the careful and diplomatic
Secretary General of the UN, Kofi Annan, made an important comment in
his opening address.  (He  has to be careful and diplomatic on these
issues: his predecessor, also an eminently careful and diplomatic
man, was thrown out  of his UN job by the Clinton Administ

[CTRL] In Saudi Arabia, five of the alleged hijackers have emerged and they are ALIVE!!!! (RESEND) (fwd)

-Caveat Lector-

Assalamu'alaikum

Interesting..

But the investigation into the terrorists is being hampered by questions
of identity. It appears that five of the hijackers were using stolen
identities. Many of them seem to have adopted the personas of real-life
commercial and military pilots.

In Saudi Arabia, five of the alleged hijackers have emerged, alive and
astonished to see their names and photographs appearing on satellite
television. Yesterday, the Londonbased Asharq al-Awsat newspaper said it
had interviewed Mr Alomari in Riyadh, and that he had left the US in April
2000. It said the American-educated engineer had reported to police that
his passport was stolen when his flat in Denver was burgled in 1995.

Ahmed al-Shehri, a Saudi diplomat told another newspaper that details of
another hijacker matched his son Waleed, who now lives in Morocco.

The pilot with Saudi Arabian Airlines graduated four years ago from
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Florida. Another Saudi pilot, Said
Hussein al-Ghamdi, whose picture was released by the US authorities may in
fact be living in Tunis and may have been falsely accused.

Full story:
http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/story.html?in_review_id=458448&in_review_text_id=410060

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ISLAMIC NEWS AND INFORMATION NETWORK: HTTP://WWW.ININ.NET

VISIT: HTTP://WWW.MEDIAMONITORS.NET

WE AFFIRM THAT INJUSTICE ANYWHERE IS A THREAT TO JUSTICE EVERYWHERE

DEFINING APARTHEID

Article 2 of the "International Convention of the Suppression and
Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid" of 1973 clearly defined the
term "crime of apartheid." This includes similar policies and practices
of segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa and
which also apply to inhuman acts committed for the purpose of the
establishment and maintaining of domination by one racial group over
another. This includes the deliberated imposition of living conditions
calculated to cause physical destruction and any legislative or other
measures preventing a racial group from full development of their
political, social, economic and cultural life. This is an accurate
description of what the zionists are doing to the Palestinian people
with the full support of the USA.

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Saying Sooth


-Caveat Lector-

From


www.wsws.org
WSWS : News
& Analysis : Europe : France
The "Teissier affair"
Astrology rehabilitated at the Sorbonne university in Paris
By Stefan Steinberg
21 September 2001
Back to screen version| Send this link by email | Email the author
For some months Frances best known astrologist Elizabeth Teissier
has featured heavily in the media and has been at the centre of an
almost surreal debate on the scientific merits of astrology.
In April, Ms. Germaine Elisabeth Hanselmann, better known as
Elizabeth Teissier, defended her doctorate dissertation, entitled
Epistemological situation of astrology across the ambivalence
fascination/rejection in post-modern societies, at Paris Sorbonne
University.
Her 900-page thesis, supposedly demonstrating the scientific
qualities of astrology, was subsequently accepted by a majority
decision of a panel of professors, as the basis for awarding Teissier
a doctorate in sociology.
Not only does a closer look at laffaire Teissier throw a revealing
and bizarre light on the way in which a French president conducted
politics in one of the most developed countries in Western Europe,
the acceptance of Teissiers paper by one of Frances most
prestigious universities makes clear the degeneration of scientific
thought that has taken place in the French educational system,
heavily influenced by so-called post-modern ideologists.
Elizabeth Teissier, a former model for Chanel, the luxury fashion and
perfumery house, and more recently the most publicised astrologer in
France, revealed some time ago that she had served as an advisor to
the French president Francois Mitterrand for a period of seven years.
She has written a book on her work for the president entitled Sous Le
Signe de Mitterrand ( Under the Sign of Mitterrand).In the book she
claims she used the stars to guide the president in choosing his
every political move, including military actions during the Gulf War.
At the start of her collaboration with Mitterand, she writes, she
predicted a major international incident, which she said would take
place in the summer of 1990. In August of the same year, when Iraq
invaded Kuwait, Mitterrand immediately called upon her to compute
Saddam Husseins horoscope and determine the dictators next move.
Reflecting US propaganda at the time, which justified its aggression
against Iraq by demonising Saddam Hussein, Teissier relates in her
book that she foresaw that Saddam would be very slow to pull back his
troops, since he possessed the same astrological cocktail as
Hitlera Taurus with Libra ascendant.
It is of course difficult to say how much of Teissiers account is
true. What is clear is that Teissier did have a close relationship
with President Mitterand and was known to attend his office on
regular occasions. It is also a matter of record that Mitterand was
intrigued by astrology, levitation and poltergeists. At a speech
before assembled scientists, the president confused astrology with
the science of astronomy.
Teissier makes clear that she relies heavily in her work on the
statistical research of Michel Gauquelin, who has sought to prove a
connection between the movement of the planets and the fortunes,
careers and performances of leading sportsmen. In her recent doctoral
paper, Teissier attempts to justify her thesis by boasting of how
President Mitterrand asked her to sketch the astral portrait of his
Prime Minister Pierre Bérégovoy. (In the course of drawing up such a
portrait, Teissier somehow missed the conjunction of stars that
pointed to Bérégovoys suicide a short time later.)
Teissiers work and book could be dismissed as some sort of practical
joke, were it not for the fact that her recent thesis was accepted
and approved by a panel of prominent professors at the Sorbonne.
Although the panel accepted it as a treatise on sociology, Teissier
abruptly dismisses any discussion of sociology at the beginning of
her paper, writing, a discussion about the philosophy of
sociology... would be out of place here... Her entire 900-page paper
is peppered with reactionary nonsense. Without over-testing the
patience of our readers, here are a few examples:
* Recent investigations have allowed us to establish a relation
between cancer and even AIDS with the dissonances of these two
planets [Neptune and Pluto] with respect to the natal theme. (p.
213)
* ... miscarriages, uterine cancers and other gynaecological
disorders are foreseeable, because they become more probable by the
transit of a dissonant star sign. (p.239)
* On page 127 Teissier examines the horoscope of author and former
leading Gaullist minister Andre Malraux and concludes that he
probably inherited his considerable talents from a former life.
* In the course of her paper, she makes clear that her targets are,
the aggressive rationalists who are allergic to the stars (p. 42)
and the militants of official science. (p. 767)
The recognition being afforded to astrology in France and other
co

[CTRL] FC: Conservative Forum: Threat is not FBI, cops need crypto-access (fwd)

-Caveat Lector-

[Norm works on privacy topics for Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), a libertarian-
leaning kind of fellow. --DBM]

***

From: "Singleton, Norman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 13:26:44 -0400

Friends, even some alleged "conservatives" are eagerly anticipating
sacrificing liberty for the illusion of security [...]

http://www.conservativereform.org/bullmoose/

Wednesday, September 19, 2001 (3:13 PM ET)

Bedfellows. The Moose is heartened by the national show of unity
against terrorism. But, beware of strange bedfellows.

The alliance of right and left wing flotsam and jetsam is nothing new
on the foreign policy front. We witnessed it during the Kosovo
conflict when noted hawks such as Lott and DeLay joined the "peace
now" crowd. With a direct attack on the American homeland, dissident
voices are muted but have not entirely disappeared.

The most bizarre example comes from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson
who suggested that the attack was God's wrath against a nation that
has sinned. This was a new theocratic right variant on the "Blame
American First" theme that used to be the purview of the left. As was
eloquently stated during the 2000 Republican primaries, Robertson and
Falwell are truly the "agents of intolerance."

Meanwhile, a few timid left voices are suggesting that we must look
for "root causes" for the terrorist behavior. However, the American
people are not in a receptive audience for the root cause crowd.

A more pernicious development is an emerging right-left alliance
against the ability of law enforcement to conduct domestic
surveillance of terrorists.

According to the Washington Post, groups ranging from the ACLU to the
Free Congress Foundation and the Gun Owners of America are uniting to
"declare their concerns that increased surveillance initiatives would
invade privacy." One conservative group called the Coalition for
Constitutional Liberties declared that, "our most basic and
fundamental freedoms are under attack unlike any time since the
Revolutionary Era."

The Moose would find this all so amusing if it weren't so sad. Some on
the right have long had the constitutional outlook of the ACLU on
issues ranging from soft money to the drug war.

Yes, there is a tremendous threat to our security, but it isn't coming
from the FBI! The unholy alliance of the right and the left is not
focused on stopping terrorists who threaten our very lives, but rather
on restraining law enforcement which seeks to protect our safety.
Privacy is fine, but at a time such as this, we must guard our
security first. This right-left coalition is just another variant on
the discredited liberal gang from the 60's which sought to tie the
hands of the police against criminals.

Make no mistake, there is a terrorist conspiracy operating within the
borders of the United States. According to testimony from a federal
official during congressional hearings last year, "As we know, Middle
East terrorist groups - such as Hezbollah, Hamas, and Osama bin
Laden's organization - are using computerized files, email and
encryption to support their organizations."

Some so-called conservatives have long opposed allowing law
enforcement to have encryption-busting powers. Evidently, the largesse
of the computer industry and other special interests can be very
influential. The Moose, however, makes no apologies for desiring that
the FBI has every tool available to thwart the terrorist plans. Give
Attorney General Ashcroft all he requests, and more.

If this is war, it is time for both the left and the right to choose
sides.

[...]

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
=

[CTRL] Protests rock Pakistan (fwd)


-Caveat Lector-

Assalamu'alaikum,

Protests rock Pakistan

http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,555779,00.html

Staff and agencies
Friday September 21, 2001

Angry protests in Pakistan brought parts of the country to a virtual
standstill today as demonstrators rallied behind Islamic groups.
Shops were closed and transport suspended as demonstrators made their
voices heard in response to a nationwide strike called by Muslim clerics.

It is the fifth consecutive day of protests in the country, but by far the
most dramatic with police, their numbers boosted, firing tear gas into
some boisterous crowds.

Protestors are acting against their government's pledge on Wednesday to
support American military strikes against neighbouring Afghanistan, where
Osama bin Laden, the chief suspect in last week's terrorist attacks in
America, is defended by the Taliban.

Despite ongoing negotiations Afghanistan's ambassador to Pakistan, Abdul
Salam Zaeef, announced today that Taliban rulers will not hand over Bin
Laden without evidence. Asked if the Taliban would deliver him, said,
"No," but his translator added, "No, not without evidence."

Pakistanis near the Afghan border vowed to launch a war against Americans.

Thousands of protesters swarmed the streets of Peshawar, in the north
west, shouting anti-American and anti-Pakistani slogans. Burning a
life-size effigy of the US president they shouted: "Long live Osama".

"We will fight until the death and destruction of the United States," one
sign read. "Crush America and Bush," read another.

Hardline Islamic clerics fuelled the strength of feeling and told their
listeners that they backed bin Laden and the Taliban leadership, which has
protected him and his followers in Afghanistan for years.

Hundreds of people watched the procession from rooftops and balconies in a
city where most people are Pashtun, the same ethnic group predominating
among the Taliban, and where there are two million Afghan refugees.

Heavily armed police, estimated at 15,000, patrolled the city on foot and
in tanks.

Violence flared in Karachi, the country's biggest city and its commercial
hub. The largest incident was in the Sohrab Goth neighbourhood, where an
estimated 1,500 Afghan refugees clashed with police, burning tyres and
attacking vehicles.

In other parts of Karachi, police were forced to fire tear gas and beat
people with iron-tipped sticks to disperse crowds pelting vehicles with
stones and blocking roads. At least 70 demonstrators were arrested, police
said.

In other parts of the country such as the south west city of Quetta,
Lahore and Islamabad, the capital, police were on guard, many in riot
gear, but protests had not begun. Most shops and schools were ordered to
close for their own safety.

The general strike also closed schools, offices and shops in the northern
Indian state of Jammu-Kashmir, where Islamic rebels are fighting for
independence with the support of Pakistan.

America has agreed to lift sanctions imposed on Pakistan and India and to
reschedule $600m (410m) in bilateral debt with Islamabad, a senior western
diplomat said today.

The diplomat, who asked not to be identified, said that "discernible
progress" would be seen soon.

Details of the surprise deal are reportedly being finalised at the moment
and will allow a resumption of American assistance to Pakistan, which
ended after sanctions were imposed for the nuclear tests it carried out in
1998.

The news come after a fruitless year of talks under the Paris Club to
reschedule Pakistan's bilateral debt.

America will sign an agreement on rescheduling $600m worth of debt, part
of Pakistan's $1.6bn debt considered by the Paris Club, in a move seen by
many as a reward for Pakistan in return for its support of the US over its
expected attacks against Pakistan's neighbour, Afghanistan.

The US has turned to Pakistan because of its critical geographical
position, on the border with Afghanistan and its ties to the Taliban
regime.

The Afghan Defence Council, an alliance of 35 religious and militant
groups, has warned the Pakistani leader, general Musharraf, that his
decision to back America could plunge the country into civil war.

With almost a week of protests, which are becoming increasingly heated,
and American strikes imminent, many Pakistanis fear civil war is
inevitable.

Yesterday, a grand Islamic council in Afghanistan met at the request of
the Taliban leadership and took the decision to ask Bin Laden to leave
voluntarily.

It is not yet known if he will comply, or if a war could be averted even
if he did.


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[CTRL] FC: PGP author Phil Zimmermann under fire for terrorist crypto use? (fwd)


-Caveat Lector-

Background on Phil Zimmermann:
http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=zimmermann
http://www.mccullagh.org/image/6/phil-zimmermann.html

---

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1234-2001Sep20.html

By Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 21, 2001; Page E01

The tears have come in the kitchen, the car and the shower, too.

Like many Americans, Phil Zimmermann, a stocky, 47-year-old computer
programmer, has been crying every day since last week's terrorist
attacks. He has been overwhelmed with feelings of guilt.

Zimmermann is the inventor of a computer program called Pretty Good
Privacy, or PGP. He posted the tool for free on the Internet 10 years
ago; it was the first to allow ordinary people to encrypt messages so
only those with a "key" could read them. No government or law
enforcement agency has been able to get in.

People warned Zimmermann back then that he could be putting powerful
technology into the wrong hands. He knew that was theoretically
possible, but he also knew that the program could do good: His work
created a way for people in oppressed countries to communicate without
fear of retribution.

Now the government is investigating whether Zimmermann's technology or
another scrambler was used by the hijackers to coordinate last week's
attacks, and U.S. lawmakers are calling for new restrictions on the
use and distribution of the technology.

[...]




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You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice.
Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/
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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Fourth Empire


-Caveat Lector-

From
http://www.lewrockwell.com/e-cobb/e-cobb17.html

}}}>Begin
The
  Fourth Republic
Being a Look Back at One Possible Future
by
  Ed Cobb Following
  is the text of the lecture delivered on September 11,
2051, at the
  first meeting of the years Introduction to American
History class
  at the Rockwell School of History and Free Trade of
Rothbard University.
  It was delivered by Instructor Emeritus Ed Cobb who is
so old that
  he is allowed to teach out of nostalgia despite this
lack of any
  serious scholarly credentials.
Good
  morning, class.
Historians
  divide the story of the American nation into four
republics. Today
  this view is commonly accepted as self-evident but such
was not
  always the case. As recently as 50 years ago most
Americans thought
  in terms of one republic. Of course, we see that view
as simplistic.

Now
  lets briefly review the outlines of the first three
American republics
  and then discuss our current era, the Fourth Republic.
The
  first American era began with the founding. That story,
its ideals and aspirations and its failings are intimately familiar
to each
  of you seated in this lecture hall today. (As an aside,
let me point
  out that your grandparents were not taught much about
our founding
  and what makes America what she is, which was no small
part of the
  problem with the Third Republic.)
America
  had created something new and there was no blueprint to
follow.
  We see the First Republic as a time of learning. The
founders made
  mistakes and had amazing successes, with accepting
slavery for as
  long as they did being their most obvious error. But at
the same time, the spirit of human freedom that was unleashed in
America
  was becoming the most powerful civic force ever seen on
the planet.

The
  Second Republic was born in the War Between the States.
Today it
  is impossible to comprehend the reverence in which
Abraham Lincoln,
  the president who fathered the Second Republic by
denying the South
  its clear right to secede, was once held in this
country. Not long
  ago most Americans credited him with abolishing slavery, which we
  know he did in only a limited fashion and as a political expedient, and 
ignored his centralization of power and disregard for the Bill
  of Rights. You will find it hard to believe but Americans once called
  him "Honest Abe" without irony. Today that nickname is
  spoken in the same tone we use when we say "Tricky Dicky"
  or "Slick Willie."
There
  is some debate regarding the true beginning of the Third Republic,
  the Imperial phase of the American story. Many historians argue
  for Franklin Roosevelt as the founder of the Empire.  It is undoubtedly 
true that he was the most successful of the imperial presidents. He established our 
permanent military presence around
  the globe. He grew the influence of government over the day-to-day
  lives of Americans to proportions that were just as unimaginable
  before his time as they are to us today.
But
  the honor, if it can be called honor, of founding the American Empire
  falls to Woodrow Wilson. Under Wilson, America sent troops to fight
  in a European War that had no relevance to American national interests.
   To this day no one really understands how or why it broke out.  During 
that war, he limited the rights of Americans to
  criticize his actions in ways that would impress even "Honest
  Abe." Wilson also masterminded the Treaty of Versailles, the
  provisions of which so oppressed Germany and so depressed its economy
  that it led directly to the rise to power of the Nazis under Adolph
  Hitler.
Hitler
  and the Nazis then became the target of FDRs wrath. Their destruction
  enabled the rise of Stalin and the Soviet Empire whose defeat in
  the Cold War led to the rise of the Jihad of the early 21st Century.
  But I am getting ahead of myself. We will cover all of that in detail
  as the semester progresses.
Another
  innovation of Emperor Wilsons was The League of Nations. Luckily,
  America was still sufficiently sane that she refused to be dragged
  into membership in this early experiment in global government. But
  he planted the seed that eventually grew into the United Nations and we 
all know how badly that turned out. By the way, as I was

[CTRL] Words for the Unhearing


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/snyder2.html

>>>Whoever has the address of the person who wrote this,

> You might
> well find yourselves fighting against God. By the way, in case you
> aren't familiar with this Book (most leftists never read it anyway)
> this comes from a MUCH higher authority than me...so it you have
> issues with it take it up with the author.

you might want to forward this to him. A<>E<>R <<<

}}}>Begin
Words
  We Do Not Want To Hear
by
  Jeff Snyder
Now,
  in the aftermath of the attack on the World Trade
Center and Pentagon,
  when the President is preparing for a mighty war, when
over 80 percent
  of Americans support him and want blood, whether in the
name of
  retribution or justice, now is the time to repeat the
words we do
  not want to hear.
Ye
have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye,
and a tooth
for a tooth:
But
I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but
whosoever shall smite
thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
. . .
Ye
have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love
thy neighbor,
and hate thine enemy.
But
I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that
curse you,
do good to them that hate you, and pray for them
which despitefully
use you, and persecute you;
That
you may be the children of your Father which is in
heaven: for
he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the
good, and sendeth
rain on the just and on the unjust.
~
  Matthew 5: 38-39; 43-45.
This
  is all you need to know if you want to do what is right in this 
situation. We should not wage war on terrorists or the Taliban,
  nor try to bring them to justice. We should, however, pray for them
  and do good to them.
In
  the 1800s a small number of men, including the abolitionist William 
Lloyd Garrison, spent a large part of their lives working out the implications of this 
teaching and trying to spread the word to their fel
low man. Much of this good work might have been lost or buried
  in oblivion but for the efforts of one of them, Leo Tolstoy, who
  gathered it together in making his own case, still available in
  the much ignored, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
According
  to Tolstoy, the meaning of Christs command to "resist not evil" is 
plain enough: it is wrong to use force or violence
  to oppose evil. Since Christs command is unconditional, there
  are no exceptions. Not for a "just" war, not for retribution,
  not for justice, not even for self-defense at the time of the assault.
  Further, the clear implication is also that it is wrong to participate
  in any enterprise that employs force or violence against our fellow
  man (even if only to oppose evil). Christs command thus renders
  government illegitimate. The Christian who follows Christ teaching
  in the Sermon on the Mount, then, will not be a soldier, or participate
  in any of the institutions of government, the courts or elections,
  and will not have any recourse to the authorities, the police or
  the law.
Christs
  teaching forever severs the question of what is good or evil, just
  or unjust, from the question of the use of force, and pronounces
  the latter wrong and evil under all circumstances. Regardless of
  what is right, good or just, it is wrong, always, to use force or
  violence to establish, uphold, vindicate or maintain the right,
  the good or the just, and it is wrong to use force to punish or
  "reform" the wicked.
Instead,
  the Christian "resists not." As Tolstoy notes, "To
  submit means to prefer suffering to using force. And to prefer suffering
  to using force means to be good, or at least less wicked than those
  who do unto others what they would not like themselves."1
Tolstoy
  musters many arguments to demonstrate that Christs teaching is
  the only true and lasting foundation of peace and brotherhood among men, 
and to explain why violence cannot eliminate evil, but only
  beget more violence. One of his more powerful arguments concerns
  the impossibility of settling disputes by recourse to violence when
  there is no universally accepted, unquestioned criterion for 
distinguishing
  good from evil. In the absence of such criterion, the men who are
  the objects of our violence do not perceive or accept their acts

[CTRL] Mute UN


-Caveat Lector-

From
http://www.nypost.com/commentary/32767.htm

}}}>Begin
AMERICA-BASHING U.N. SHOULD GET LOST

By ANDREA PEYSER

September 21, 2001
--
IT'S time for the United Nations to get
the hell out of town.
And take with it CNN war slut Christiane Amanpour.
Also, short ABC comedian Bill "those bombers were brave" Maher. More
on that in a sec.
The U.N. building towers over the East River like a giant middle
finger aimed at our shores.
The once-shiny beacon of peace has devolved into a cancer, where all
manner of anti-American lunacy is hatched.
Today, the U.N. functions as an international megaphone through which
every Third World dictatorship vents its fury at our way of life.
Though technically not on American soil, the United Nations clogs our
city like sewage.
It lustily sucks up our police, our water, our sanitation services
while its personnel jam city streets by parking illegally, and break
all manner of traffic and criminal law with a get-out-of-jail-free
card known as diplomatic immunity.
Now, the United Nations is serving yet another function: It has become the quietest 
place on earth.
Since two planes toppled the World Trade Center in a fiery blast of terror, the United 
Nations has been mute.
Where are the diplomats we housed and fed, whose transgressions we excused, whose 
libels we endured, now that the nearby turf is in ruins?
Oh, yes, Secretary General Kofi Annan has been on television in a hard hat, grabbing 
network face time by glancing, moist-eyed, at the ruins of the Twin Towers.
But where are the resolutions? The outrage? The deep, heartfelt expressions of regret?
Not here. Not now. And certainly not for us.
So, the United Nations doesn't like this nation? Fine. Don't let the door hit you on 
the butt as you get the hell out.
Go home to your police states and smarmy European capitals.
"The U.N. provides cover almost the same way the Taliban does," observes Harvey 
Kushner, an author and terrorism expert.
"It serves as the laboratory, the linchpin for legitimizing incendiary rhetoric," 
Kushner said.
Following the initial shock, America-bashing, I'm distressed to report, is going full 
throttle.
And not just in the foreign media - though there's plenty of that - but right here, at 
home, in the guise of "analysis."
Explaining why the Arab world hates us, CNN's Amanpour spewed her bias in a live 
conversation with news blonde Paula Zahn:
"The issue of the United States' close alliance with Israel, the perception that the 
United States does not care as much about the suffering of Muslims in Palestine, in 
what they call Palestine, is a key reason for the an
ti-Americanism on the rise in the Middle East."
I wonder what her Jewish in-laws think.
Short comedian Bill Maher was even more rabid.
On "Politically Incorrect," Maher declared the United States cowardly for "lobbing 
cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away" at Iraq. In the next breath, he praised the 
bravery of the trade center bombers.
"Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's 
not cowardly," gushed Maher.
He later insisted our government is cowardly, not our soldiers. Thanks.
The truth is the monsters who attacked us hate not just the United States and Israel. 
They hate wealthy Saudi Arabia. They hate non-fundamentalist Muslims. They treat women 
like slaves, children like property, and dream o
f romping with virgins in paradise.
Everyone with a gripe against Israel or America has joined the orgy
in the guise of "analysis." Analyze this, you bastards.
Home

NEW YORK POST is a registered trademark of NYP Holdings, Inc.
NYPOST.COM, NYPOSTONLINE.COM, and NEWYORKPOST.COM
are trademarks of NYP Holdings, Inc.
Copyright 2001 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.


End<{{{
~~~
Forwarded as information only; no endorsement to be presumed
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
is distributed without charge or profit to those who have
expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
for non-profit research and educational purposes only.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe
simply because it has been handed down for many generations. Do not
believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do
not believe in anything simply because it is written in Holy Scriptures. Do not
believe in anything merely on the authority of Teachers, elders or wise men.
Believe only after careful observation and analysis, when you find that it
agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all.
Then accept it and live up to it."
The Buddha on Belief, from the Kalama Sutta

[CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....

2001-09-21 Thread Tony Dickinson


-Caveat Lector-

> In the US there is much talk about the notion, that this attack has
> ushered in a "new breed of terrorist." That these were bright and
> educated individuals as opposed to the desperate and angry outcasts
> of yesterday.
>

New breeds are most certainly being revealed this time around, but,
at very best, the evidence so far presented to the public suggest only
that these 'bright and educated individuals' existed and may have posessed
the skills suggested by their training. I'm sure that Manchurian
candidates and straw persons alike come in many flavours. For
example, whether they were the only 'foe' on board the aircraft, or did
themselves carrying out the acts witnessed by us all remains unknown (at
least to me). The discovery of Islamic and Arabic artifacts, IDs and paper
trails by these guys appears a little odd to me (cocky, smart or
diversive?) and our assumptive logical evaluations of such 'evidence'
needs be treated with constant scrutiny.

As another example, the assumption that the original pilots steered into
the twin towers is now questionable in the minds of many, but how many of
us would be willing to entertain the idea that a non-piloted remote control
system could have been used to guide the hijacked aircraft to their new
trajectories ? I'm not wanting to suggest that this is what actually
happened, but posit as an explanatory option, the technology certainly
exists.

This possibility is not inconsistent with the view that a 'new breed of
terrorist' as implied by the questioner does indeed now exist; but my
point here, is that we may in the future be 'finding' any number of
'bright and educated individuals' on a crime scene, who by intellectual
association and leaning seem to 'fit' suspect-profiles but MAY have
little/no knowledge of their complicities. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Thoughts ?

Cheers,
   Tony.

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[CTRL] Passport photo of Mohammas Atta a forgery!?

2001-09-21 Thread Edlund Jörgen


-Caveat Lector-

Swedish journalist Arne Lapidus has located
Mohammad Attas father, a lawyer i Kairo,
Egypt. In todays issue of the swedish daily
"Expressen", Lapidus writes (my translation):

"... Atta fetches a few old photos of his son. The
first photo shows him as a child, together with
his parents. The second photo shows him as a young
man.
- Look at this. He has the face of a child even thou
here he´s already a fully qualified engineer. Could
he have done something so horrible!?
 The passport photo that has been shown in the papers
is a forgery. They´ve made him look depressed and
angry and cruel. In reality he has an angel-like,
beautiful face..."


The article is here (in swedish only, I´m afraid!):

http://www.expressen.se/article.asp?id=82024


/Jörgen Edlund, Sweden

_
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Om

[CTRL] New standard


-Caveat Lector-

Aboard Flight 564...
> >  Peter Hannaford >  As it was at most U.S. airports, last Saturday was
>the first >near-normal day at Denver International since the terrorist
>attacks. On >United's Flight 564 the door had just been locked and the
>plane was about >to >pull out of >the gate when the captain came on the
>public address system. > >  "I want to thank you brave folks for coming out
>today. We don't have >any new instructions from the federal government, so
>from now on we're on >our >own." > >  The passengers listened in total
>silence. > >  He explained that airport security measures had pretty much
>solved the >  problem of firearms being carried aboard, but not weapons of
>the type >  the terrorists apparently used, plastic knives or those
>fashioned from >wood >  or ceramics. > >  "Sometimes a potential hijacker
>will announce that he has a bomb. There >  are no bombs on this aircraft
>and if someone were to get up and make that >  claim,  don't believe him. >
> >  "If someone were to stand up, brandish something such as a plastic
>knife >  and say 'This is a hijacking' or words to that effect here is what
>you >  should do: Every one of you should stand up and immediately throw
>things >at >  that person - pillows, books, magazines, eyeglasses, shoes
>-anything that >  will throw him off balance and distract his attention. If
>he has a >  confederate or two, do the same with them. Most important: get
>a blanket >over >  him (or her), then wrestle him to floor and keep him
>there. We'll land >the >plane >  at the nearest airport and the authorities
>will take it from there." > >  "Remember, there will be one of him and
>maybe a few confederates, but >   there are 200 of you. You can overwhelm
>them. >  "The Declaration of Independence says 'We, the people' and that's
>just >  what it is when we're up in the air: we, the people, vs. would-be >
>  terrorists. I don't think we are going to have any such problem today or
> >  tomorrow or for a while, but some time down the road, it is going to
> >happen >  again and I want you to know what to do. > >  "Now, since we're
>a family for the new few hours, I'll ask you to turn >  to the person next
>to you, introduce yourself, tell them a little about >  yourself and ask
>them to do the same." > >  The end of this remarkable speech brought
>sustained clapping from the >  passengers. He had put the matter in
>perspective. If only the >  passengers on those ill-fated flights last
>Tuesday had been given the >same >talk, >  I thought, they might be alive
>today. One group on United Flight 93, >  which crashed in a Pennsylvania
>field, apparently rushed the hijackers in >an >  attempt to wrest control
>from them. While they perished, they succeeded >  in preventing the
>terrorists from attacking their intended goal, possibly >the >  White House
>or the Capitol. > >  Procedures for dealing with hijackers were conceived
>in a time when the >  hijackers were usually seeking the release of jailed
>comrades or a >  large amount of money. Mass murder was not their goal.
>That short talk >last >  Saturday by the pilot of Flight 564 should set a
>new standard of >  realism. > >  Every passenger should learn the simple -
>but potentially life-saving - >  procedure he outlined. He showed his
>passengers that a hijacking does >  not have to result in hopelessness and
>terror, but victory over the >  perpetrators.

_
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] FC: French cops investigate website encouraging attacks on U.S. (fwd)


-Caveat Lector-

[stcom.net is now offline. --DBM]



http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010920/wr/attack_france_internet_dc_1.html

Frenchman Probed for Web Site Applauding
Attacks

PARIS (Reuters) - A Frenchman who allegedly set up an internet
site applauding the
deadly attacks on U.S. landmarks and urging Muslims to fight a
holy war is being
investigated for encouraging suicide acts, judicial sources said
Thursday.

Smain Bedrouni is under formal judicial investigation after
being accused of creating
stcom.net, a U.S.-based Web site that calls for ``jihad.''

Endorsing suicide attempts which aim to kill others is illegal
in France.

[...]



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==
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[CTRL] Wiesenthal Center Promotes Intolerance and Hate (fwd)

-Caveat Lector-

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 12:59:54 -0400
From: ina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PalestineDiary] Wiesenthal Center Promotes Intolerance and Hate

Council on American-Islamic Relations
Southern California
Action Alert
-

Wiesenthal Center Promotes Intolerance and hate

As increasingly violent hate incidents against members of the American Muslim
community are taking place, the Southern California chapter of the Council on
American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-LA) is calling upon religious and media
institutions to avoid contributing to an atmosphere of intolerance and
Islamophobia. Such an atmosphere has already resulted in numerous attacks
against Islamic centers, American Muslims, Arab-Americans, and others with
Middle Eastern appearances, including Sikhs.

One institution in particular-- the Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal
Center--has displayed an incredible amount of insensitivity by placing on its
website a picture of Palestinians allegedly celebrating last Tuesday's tragic
attack. (See: http://www.wiesenthal.com/)

Ironically, the Wiesenthal Center claims to be a "Jewish human rights
organization dedicated to preserving the memory of the Holocaust by fostering
tolerance and understanding." Members of the American Muslim community do not
understand how posting this picture contributes to the center's stated mission.
Rather than promoting tolerance and understanding, the Simon Wiesenthal Center
is unfortunately inciting a backlash against the American Muslim and Arab
American communities.

At a time when America's leaders are urging national unity, it is shameful that
any group--particularly a self-proclaimed human rights organization--chooses to
exploit America's tragedy to further its own narrow political agenda.

ACTION REQUESTED: (As always, be firm, but polite)
Contact the Wiesenthal Center and ask that the picture be removed from their
website. Also, contact the Los Angeles Human Relations Commission and
ask for their assistance in ending incitement against Islam.

TALKING POINTS:
1) The picture does not represent the support and sympathy expressed by the
overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people and its leadership. (read
article below)
Palestinians Shocked by Attacks on United States (Reuters)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010912/wl/attack_palestinian_reaction_dc_1.html

2) The picture serves to promote negative stereotyping against American
Muslims
and Arab Americans, leading to more intolerance and hate crimes.

Contact information:
The Simon Wiesenthal Center
310-553-9036
800-900-9036 (toll-free from within the U.S.)
310-553-4521 (fax)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Also contact:
Los Angeles Human Relations Commission
Robin Toma, Executive Director
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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[CTRL] Editha


-Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.ctrl.org/MilleganStews/Editha.html
Click Here: http://www.ctrl.org/MilleganStews/Editha.html";>Editha
-
Millegan Stews
9/21/01
An work of fiction about war, written after the Spanish-American War
Om
K
-
from:
Between the Dark and the Daylight: Romances
(New York, 1907), pp. 125-145.


EDITHA

by William Dean Howells

The air was thick with the war feeling, like the electricity of a storm which
has not yet burst. Editha sat looking out into the hot spring afternoon, with
her lips parted, and panting with the intensity of the question whether she
could let him go. She had decided that she could not let him stay, when she
saw him at the end of the still leafless avenue, making slowly up towards the
house, with his head down and his figure relaxed. She ran impatiently out on
the veranda, to the edge of the steps, and imperatively demanded greater
haste of him with her will before she called aloud to him: "George!"

He had quickened his pace in mystical response to her mystical urgence,
before he could have heard her; now he looked up and answered, "Well?"

"Oh, how united we are!" she exulted, and then she swooped down the steps to
him. "What is it?" she cried.

"It's war," he said, and he pulled her up to him and kissed her.

She kissed him back intensely, but irrelevantly, as to their passion, and u
ttered from deep in her throat. "How glorious!"

"It's war," he repeated, without consenting to her sense of it; and she did
not know just what to think at first. She never knew what to think of him;
that made his mystery, his charm. All through their courtship, which was
contemporaneous with the growth of the war feeling, she had been puzzled by
his want of seriousness about it. He seemed to despise it even more than he
abhorred it. She could have understood his abhorring any sort of bloodshed;
that would have been a survival of his old life when he thought he would be a
minister, and before he changed and took up the law. But making light of a
cause so high and noble seemed to show a want of earnestness at the core of
his being. Not but that she felt herself able to cope with a congenital
defect of that sort, and make his love for her save him from himself. Now
perhaps the miracle was already wrought in him. In the presence of the
tremendous fact that be announced, all triviality seemed to have gone out of
him; she began to feel that. He sank down on the top step, and wiped his
forehead with his handkerchief, while she poured out upon him her question of
the origin and authenticity of his news.

All the while, in her duplex emotioning, she was aware that now at the very
beginning she must put a guard upon herself against urging him, by any word
or act, to take the part that her whole soul willed him to take, for the
completion of her ideal of him. He was very nearly perfect as he was, and he
must be allowed to perfect himself. But he was peculiar, and he might very
well be reasoned out of his peculiarity. Before her reasoning went her
emotioning: her nature pulling upon his nature, her womanhood upon his
manhood, without her knowing the means she was using to the end she was
willing. She had always supposed that the man who won her would have done
something to win her; she did not know what, but something. George Gearson
had simply asked her for her love, on the way home from a concert, and she
gave her love to him, without, as it were, thinking. But now, it flashed upon
her, if he could do something worthy to have won her-be a hero, her heroit
would be even better than if he had done it before asking her; it would be
grander. Besides, she had believed in the war from the beginning.

"But don't you see, dearest," she said, "that it wouldn't have come to this
if it hadn't been in the order of Providence? And I call any war glorious
that is for the liberation of people who have been struggling for years
against the cruelest oppression. Don't you think so, too?"

"I suppose so," he returned, languidly. "But war! Is it glorious to break the
peace of the world?"

"'That ignoble peace! It was no peace at all, with that crime and shame at
our very gates." She was conscious of parroting the current phrases of the
newspapers, but it was no time to pick and choose her words. She must
sacrifice anything to the high ideal she had for him, and after a good deal
of rapid argument she ended with the climax: "But now it doesn't matter about
the how or why. Since the war has come, all that is gone. There are no two
sides any more. There is nothing now but our country."

He sat with his eyes closed and his head leant back against the veranda, and
he remarked, with a vague smile, as if musing aloud, "Our countryright or
wrong."

"Yes, right or wrong!" she returned, fervidly. "I'll go and get you some
lemonade." She rose rustling, and whisked away; when she came back with two
tall glasses of clouded liquid on a tray, and the ice clucking in them, he
still sat as she had left him, and sh

[CTRL] FC: Eric Freedman on morphed child porn: "Pursuing Pixelized Pixies" (fwd)


-Caveat Lector-

[Eric is a longtime warrior on behalf of free expression. I've translated
his article from, ugh, Microsoft Word form to text, which has wrinkled the
article's formatting a little. But it should be readable. Eric, BTW, is
talking not about the obscene-for-minors-to-read COPA case, but the
morphed-nude-images-of-minors CPPA child porn case. Both are before the
Supreme Court. --DBM]



Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 20:40:24 -0400
From: "Eric M. Freedman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

A piece of mine from the August issue of Communications of the ACM.  Best. -E.


Eric M. Freedman

---

Pursuing Pixelized Pixies

This fall, in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, the Supreme Court will be
deciding the constitutionality of a remarkable statute that broadly
criminalizes the dissemination of all depictions that Aappear to be@ ones
of children engaging in Asexually explicit@ conduct notwithstanding that
the images were generated purely digitally, without the use of any actual
children (or adult actors for that matter) at all.
According to the legislative findings supporting the Child Pornography
Prevention Act, viewing the forbidden pictures Acan desensitize the viewer
to the pathology of sexual abuse or exploitation of children, so that it
can become acceptable to and even preferred by the viewer.@ Moreover, say
the findings, such images create an unwholesome moral
environment.  Further, according to advocates of the statute, the
government will never be able to prosecute pornographers if it must bear
the burden of proving that the images are of real rather than digital children.
If it applies ordinary constitutional rules, the Supreme Court will with
little difficulty reject these defenses and affirm the decision of the
United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit to strike down the
challenged portions of the statute.
In 1959,  the State of New York sought to prevent dissemination of the
movie version of ALady Chatterley=s Lover@ on the basis of its
Apresentation of adultery as a desirable, acceptable and proper pattern of
behavior.@  The Supreme Court unanimously rebuffed the effort, holding that
the State=s action Astruck at the very heart of constitutionally protected
liberty.@
AIt is contended,@ wrote Justice Potter Stewart, Athat the State=s action
was justified because the motion picture attractively portrays a
relationship which is contrary to the moral standards, the religious
precepts, and the legal code of its citizenry.  This argument misconceives
what it is that the Constitution protects.  Its guarantee is not confined
to the expression of ideas that are conventional or shared by a
majority.  It protects advocacy of the opinion that adultery may sometimes
be proper no less than advocacy of socialism or the single tax.  And in the
realm of ideas it protects expression which is eloquent no less than that
which is unconvincing.@
Thus, in 1986, the Court summarily struck down an Indianapolis ordinance
criminalizing those sexually-themed works that had the effect of
subordinating women.  Perhaps the material at issue had socially
undesirable consequences, the lower court wrote, but, Athe state may not
ordain preferred viewpoints in this way.@  And even when the Court upheld
broader suppression of sexually explicit works involving children, so as to
afford physical protection to real children involved in abusive
productions, it took pains to note that producers could always convey their
message by such means as using adult actors who appeared to be younger.
As to the prosecutorial convenience argument, it is hardly a constitutional
response to the government=s inability to bear the burden of proof in a
criminal proceeding to pass a statute relieving the government of the need
to do so.  Practically speaking, this means that in the very rare instances
when defendants have the courage to force such cases to trial, the
government will have to offer proof (e.g. from other participants in the
production) in addition to the images themselves.
More broadly, the statute rests on premises and language of stunning
vagueness, that together could lead to consequences that would eviscerate
the First Amendment as a protector of unpopular speech.  For example, one
rationale offered for the legislation is that pedophiles might seduce
children into engaging in sexual activity by displaying computer-generated
images of other children doing so.  This rationale would not only support
the banning of lollipops, but also of  a huge range of images -- including
photographs made with mannequins, and cartoons.  And, read literally, the
statutory ban on images that Aappear to be@ ones of children would support
this result.  This could have the effect of outlawing classical works of
art featuring cherubs, photographs of primitive tribes, and many other
depictions that could hypothetically be abused by a criminal.
That is precisely why the Court has historically rejected justifications
for censors

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: The Jerusalem Post Newspaper : Online News From Israel - Features Article

2001-09-21 Thread Saba


-Caveat Lector-

I am aware of this June for you see this man had been questioned about
these plans.

Years ago I went into the Nationwide Insurnce Building, huge new
building, modern and the thing that shocked me it was getting old for
such a new building - celings the tile stained and brown from plumbing
problems?

Wonder if this buiding was in need of repair; and I keep thinking of
this bus at the bottom of the heap with CALL THE POLICE above windshield
- where the designated street normally appears..but then here is
item I sent out before I knew about this man with the 99 year lease - 99
years who got into trouble money wise?

This story is about John Gotti and also about the ilegal demolition of 4
buildings in Times Square - this one guy mentioned is the guy who
murdered 19 people who was given immunity and set free - to testify
against John Gotti.

Note:   this alleged billion dollar contract for dry wall - seems this
old building needed lots of repair?   Demolition experts?   I say when I
saw those "twin towers" go down - it was more than a melt down this was
price award winnning demolition of buildings said demolition done in the
name of God -.this bible calendar I have is used by the assassins or
the ones who control and pay for the assassins and sabotuers.

Keep thinking of that US Destroyer laying on its side in a New Jersey
harbor - sabotaged by mob for Lucky Luciano wanted out of jail.

Our government has worked with these men.the know oh so many
secrets.
They know of my bible calendar code too for I was told so by the man who
spent a year in prison with James Riddle Hoffa and may have had part in
his murder or escape - the usual suspencts involved.

So read this item which I had before I knew about this leaseat the
time it did not hit me tht the insides of this building was in need of
such repair?

Saba

Now this is a conspiracy theory list .but there are some things
which seem to be a little more than just "cospiracy".

Osama bin Laden?   Well remember the Egyptian Jews put into the Mossad
to blow up Amerian movie theatres and other places (maybe kind of like
that disco in Israel where Russian kids hun out) but the idea was to
blame on Egyptians - not Jews.like Thothmosis II carried all these
top intelligence men and the plane "suicides".as the US Liberty and
I will NEVER NEVER NEVER FORGET THE USS LIBERTY or the Arizona.but
our men lying on deck were NAPALMED AND BURNED AND MURDERED.

99 year leasewith an old by today's standards building - rase it,
rase it, rase it.think demolition team behind the final blows.

And my bible calendar does not predict - intelligence can often
determine where the assassins might hit.they leave alling cards in
bible . ask any high degree Mason or if you now any high degree
intelligence agents - well today they have been juged and found wanting.

So on with the Crusade - imagine Osama will be nailed, and lots cast for
his robe and maybe 2,000 years from now the Israelis will reconsider
what they did

Sammy "The Bull" Gravano
More Gravano Notches


Prior to his association with John Gotti, Gravano had been involved in
eight murders over a fourteen-year period.

Since becoming a member of Gotti's inner circle, he played a role in the
deaths of eleven men in six years.

After the murders of Castellano and Bilotti in 1985, the next person on
Gravano's "hit parade" was Nick Mormando. Known as "Nicky Cowboy,"
Mormando became addicted to crack cocaine and, according to Gravano,
became a "renegade" and went "berserk." Joe Paruta shot Mormando in the
back of the head and his body was left in an empty lot. This murder was
followed by the aforementioned slaying of Robert DiBernardo.

In 1987 another member of Gravano's crew, Mike DeBatt, also became
addicted to crack cocaine. DeBatt's father had been close with Gravano
and after his death, Sammy had taken the younger DeBatt under his wing
the same as he had done with Joey D'Angelo. In this case it was DeBatt's
wife who went to Gravano for help. Sammy responded by having young Mike
murdered while he tended bar at Tali's. Gravano claimed, "This just tore
my fucking insides out." Gravano doesn't mention how it affected the
DeBatt family.
The following year Gravano was involved in three murders. First was
Louis Milito in March 1988. Gravano received permission from Gotti to
kill his old Ramper gang partner. Milito had badmouthed Gravano's
decision to promote Louis Vallario to crew chief when Sammy was named
acting consigliere. Next was Francesco Oliverri in May. Oliverri, a
pasta factory employee and father of three, had killed a man in a
fistfight during an altercation in an apartment building hallway. The
victim had been a member of John Gambino's crew. Gambino went to Gotti
for revenge. Gotti gave the assignment to Gravano with orders to use
Robert Bisaccia, a "soldier" in a New Jersey crew that the family was
looking to promote. On May 3, while Gravano sat in a stolen g

Re: [CTRL] Will Mad Dog Disease Overtake The UK

2001-09-21 Thread Cliff Hume


-Caveat Lector-

Please refrain from sending attachments and HTML. These things have been
stopping up the downloading of my mail for almost two weeks.

If the message is important enough for me to read, capture it with the mouse
and forward as plain text.

Thanks very much to all of you.


The USA lost her innocense because the present administration has
approximately 350 traitors throughout all branches of government, including
the Military, and they will stop at nothing to institute their communist new
world order

Yours truly,

Cliff Hume.




At 01:28 AM 8/30/01 -0500, you wrote:
>-Caveat Lector-
>
>I think this is a hoax.  Does anyone know for sure?  One of the
>reasons I think so is the letterhead of the CIA does not have a
>printed address.  It appears to have been typed in and note, too,
>the city stated as "Langley, MD" instead of Virginia,  At least
>when they write me, it is from Virginia.  :-)  Is someone trying to
>terrorize the much be-leaguered Britons?
>Amelia
>
> http://www.rumormillnews.net/cgi-bin/config.pl?read=10939
>
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\Eudora\Attach\Will Mad Dog Disease Overtake The
UK4.url
>
>http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
>screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
>sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
>directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
>major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
>That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
>always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
>credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
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>
>

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
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always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Gathering of Peacemakers


-Caveat Lector-

IF YOU ARE IN FAVOR FINDING A PEACEFUL SOLUTION TO THE WTC ATTACK
GATHER WITH OTHERS AT THE FOLLOWING LOCATIONS:

CENTRAL PARK FOUNTAIN AT 72 ST LEVEL

UNION SQUARE PARK 14 st & union sq

WASHINGTON SQUARE PARK 4 st

LOOK FOR THE WHITE POSTER.

ALL TIMES, EVERYDAY.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HELP ME, CALL JACOB 917-405-0864.



_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Rona Barrett of the New Left

2001-09-21 Thread thew


-Caveat Lector-

> IN other words, the real ex owners, the bank, Chase Manhattan, CITIBANK,
> which is really the IMF...are off the hook. They got their payoff and
> are out of it. These new people don't LOSE money, they have 99 years to
> make money after they rebuild.
>
> My comment is jeez, If they'd only told us earlier, that the IMF was no
> longer the landlord, MAYBE we'd have gotten OUR kid off whatever
> floor!

The buildings were still a symbol of World trade, regardless of who the
landlords are. It was not bombed because of who owned it, but because of
what it was.



>THEY damn well KNEW it was coming. Ben Chambers, of 47th floor
> said  in PEOPLE MAGAZINE today "last few weeks they've been making us
> have ESCAPE DRILLS!" SOMEBODY UPSTAIRS KNEW!

actually there had been several reported bomb threats over the last few
weeks. It was in the news.



>
> So, to sum this up, no big IMF or NYC bank was left holding the bag, the
> new lessors (who bought a pig in a poke) saved a few billion tearing the
> old ratty thing down for free and cheap.

it was not ratty in the least. It was well constructed enough to stay
standing while 10's of thousands evacuated.




>It was a firetrap and they knew
> it, shafts and stairwells carried heat.

and what building wouldn't with gallons and gallons and gallons of jet fuels
splashing through it?

> NOBODY CARED what terrorists
> were going to DO to this bldg.

they did not buy it to tear it down. they bought it to make money with it.


> It hadn't been owned by IMF city bank and
> CHASE MANHATTAN for several WEEKS! The new lessors can collect and
> rebuild. Hey, BAD TIMING TERRORISTS. You just gave the BUSH OIL COMPANY
> and its KUWAIT and SAUDI chums just the spectacular HORROR SHOW that
> they always wanted! WTC HARBOR! THE WHOLE MIDDLE EAST ON A PLATE as the
> spoils of a long and costly (let me rephrase that) CHEAP war. Cheap cuz
> they own the pentagon and the war toy companies so they make bux there
> and your son's life is real cheap. Army boys get what, a 100$ a week?
>
> So citizens of the USA? How do you spell SHAFT? The people always get
> the gov they deserve! We who let FLORIDA VOTE HIM IN deserve him. We
> who drive gas guzzlers deserved BUSH and OIL PREXY. Just a month ago,
> KUWAIT AND THE BUSH HOUSTON OIL COMPANIES all merged. Want that current
> event sent you by me?
>
> Someone should get Ed Begley and all the celeb visionaries to impeach
> THE GAS CAR and give us a clean air world. No cancer for your grandkids.
> We had such great AIR in LA the four days jets didn't fly. Maybe we can
> run airplanes on something other than fossil fuel, too.
>


"It is not the function of our government to keep the
citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen
to keep the government from falling into error."

 Justice Robert H. Jackson




NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] war on terror theartens war on drugs





War on Terrorism Threatens War on Drugs
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010920/ts/attack_afghan_drugs_dc_1.html 

Thursday September 20 1:28 PM ET 

War on Terrorism Threatens War on Drugs

By David FoxISLAMABAD (Reuters) - The U.S. war on terrorism could threaten the success of a battle that Washington has been waging since Nancy Reagan first urged America to ``just say no'' nearly 20 years ago.U.N. officials said Thursday the current crisis gripping Afghanistan (news - web sites) in the wake of the attacks on Washington and New York could undermine the ``remarkable'' progress the Taliban-ruled area of the country has made in halting drug production.Despite being considered a pariah by almost every government in the world, Afghanistan's ruling Taliban have succeeded in virtually wiping out poppy farming in areas they control.And they have done this voluntarily, without compensation to the farmers who depend on the crop for their livelihood, and without the promise of reward or international recognition for doing so.``It has been a remarkable achievement,'' said Bernard Frahi, the regional representative for the U.N.'s Office for Drug Control and Crime Prevention for Afghanistan and Pakistan.Last year, some 200,000 acres of poppies were cultivated in Afghanistan, producing 75 percent of the world's heroin supply and nearly 90 percent of Europe's. But this year the United Nations (news - web sites) believes not a single acre may have been grown in the 95 percent of Afghanistan controlled by the Taliban.The same is not true, however, of areas controlled by the opposition Northern Alliance, where what used to amount to!
 10 percent of Afghanistan's opium is still produced.The United Nations is still compiling its latest report, but a spokesman said if the trend of the last two years continued, the Taliban could be credited with carrying out the most successful drug-eradication programs in history.The turnaround came when the Taliban's spiritual leader, Mullah Mohammad Omar, issued an edict last year declaring the cultivation of narcotic crops as ``un-Islamic.''SEVERE PUNISHMENTMullah Omar's edicts are strictly enforced by the Taliban's religious police -- officially known as the Department for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice -- and severe punishments are meted out to those who flout them.``It could be a turning point,'' Kemal Kurspahic told Reuters from Geneva. ``It is a historic opportunity to seriously undermine the world's supply of opiate derivatives and heroin.''The U.N. drug office assists countries in trying to persuade farmers to growing alternative crops and raising funds to help them make the transition.Little known is the fact that the United States has contributed significantly to those programs in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan.Officials say, however, that all the recent successes could be undermined by the current crisis and a change of regime in Kabul could swing the pendulum the other way.``In the current atmosphere it is impossible to say something good about the Taliban, but the fact is they have a much better record than the Northern Alliance or previous regimes,'' said a Western diplomat who asked not to be named.``You cannot say that any change of government would result in the drug policy still being enforced. In fact, most of my colleagues believe the opposite is true.''Other officials say the Taliban may have no qualms about reversing their anti-drug edict if they need to raise money to defend themselves against a United States-led effort to unseat them.In previous years, the Taliban imposed a tax on poppy farmers that netted their meager treasury around $10 million a year, according!
 to the U.N.The farmers made around $90 million last year from the sale of opium resin extracted from poppy bulbs. With heroin selling for around $200 per gram in Europe, the street value is billions of dollars.In the short term, however, the crisis is likely to reduce the amount of heroin reaching the streets of the West as increased security along Afghanistan's borders by its neighbors will restrict outflows of opium and heroin processed from last year's crop.``People are not going to feel pressure immediately, and we don't really know how much heroin may be stockpiled by the traffickers,'' Kurspahic said.``But it will be felt -- perhaps next year when the result of no crop from this year develops. Purity will go down, prices will rise and shortages will result.''
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[CTRL] Fwd: Robert Fisk Speaks






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 INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT FISK
   AT BEIRUT AIRPORT IN LEBANON

[Note: MERTV's 2-hour Exclusive Interview with Robert Fisk 
  in 1997 can be found at -- http://www.MERTV.org]


  KIM HILL [Radio New Zealand on 19 Sept]: Can I talk to you about 
Osama Bin Laden?  I don't know whether you are in favour of him 
becoming public enemy number one at the moment but I do know that 
you have met him and I wonder if you could give me some kind of 
insight into, first of all, is he capable of this.

  ROBERT FISK [The Independent, UK - longest serving Western Reporter
in the Middle East]:  Well, I've been trying to explain this in my own paper, 
the London Independent over the last few days and I'm not sure. We haven't 
actually seen the evidence that directly links him to not just an atrocity but a
crime against humanity that took place in New York and Washington. On the
other hand, the Afghan connection seems to be fairly strong.

Could he have done it? He certainly hasn't condemned it although he denies
being involved. The first time, no the second time I met him in Afghanistan
when he was there with his armed fighters, I asked him if he had been
involved in an attack on American troops at Al Hoba, in Saudi Arabia which
had just taken place - 24 American soldiers had been killed - and he said
no, it was not his doing, he was not responsible. He admitted that he knew
two or three men who have since been executed, beheaded, by the Saudi
authorities.

He then said, I did not have the honour to participate in this operation.
In other words, he approved of it. Now, you can go on saying that kind of
thing - he did, several times over about other episodes later. At some point
you begin to say, "Come off it Bin Laden, surely you are saying there's a
connection, but he's never said or admitted responsibility for any such
event and he's denied specifically the atrocities in the United States.

Is he capable of it? Look, I'll give you one tiny example. The second time
I met him in Afghanistan, four years ago, at the top of a mountain, it was
cold and in the morning when I woke in the camp tent, I had frost in my
hair. He walked into the tent I was sitting in and sat down opposite me,
cross-legged on the floor and noticed in the school bag I usually carry in
rough country to keep things in, some Arabic-language newspapers and he
seized upon these and went to the corner of the tent with a sputtering oil
lamp and devoured the contents.

For 20 minutes, he ignored us, he ignored the gunman sitting in the tent,
he ignored me and he didn't even know, for example, that it was stated in
one of the stories in the newspaper that the Iranian foreign minister had
just visited Riyadh, his own country, Saudi Arabia, well, his until he lost
his citizenship. So he seemed to me at the time to be very isolated, a cut
off man, not the sort of person who would press a button on a mobile phone
and say, "Put plan B into action".

So I don't think you can see this as a person who actually participates in
the sense of planning, step-by-step, what happens in a nefarious attack. In
other words, I doubt very much if he said, "Well, four airplanes, five
hijackers, etc.". But he is a person that has a very large following,
particularly in the rather sinister Jihadi community or culture of Pakistan.
And there is such anger in the Middle East at the moment about the American'
s policies here and whether it be the deaths of tens of thousands of
children in Iraq, which Osama Bin Laden has spoken about, whether it be
continued occupation and expansion of Jewish settlements in Arab land which
he's also spoken about, whether it be about the continued dictatorships, Ara
b dictatorships, which are supported in large part by the west, especially
in the Gulf area, about which Osama Ben Laden has spoken about and
condemned, I think you find in this region, enough people who admire what he
says, almost to conspire amongst themselves without involving him, in the
kind of bombing attacks that we've seen in Saudi Arabia and I suppose it's
conceivable, in the atrocities in the United States.

But if you're looking for direct evidence, if

[CTRL] Fwd: [Spy News] Misdirection

2001-09-21 Thread Prudence L. Kuhn






Letter from Ramallah - "Israel is pounding us even as I write"

Sept 16, 2001 - Ramallah

 I am writing to you now to the sound of Israel's "Defense Forces" pounding  the
living daylights out of my hometown Ramallah. As the whole world is  too busy
paying tributes to the victims of terror attacks in NYC and DC,  Israel has had
a field day in terror attacks of their own on us here.  Since the attacks in the
US, the Israelis have taken their assaults on  Palestinians to new heights.
Every day they have invaded a few cities using tanks, helicopters, and fighter
jets. Since the beginning of the intifada, there has not been so much Israeli
aggression like that  witnessed since last Tuesday.

 No one could put this clearer than Shaul Mofaz, Israel's Chief of Staffs,  who
boasted that his forces have killed tens of Palestinians and no one in  the
world said anything. Indeed, since last Tuesday there have been  unrelenting
attacks on each Palestinian city for no reason. Since the  beginning of the
Intifada Israelis have carried out only 2 or 3 such attacks, while since
Tuesday, there has been at least a dozen. Tens of  Palestinian martyrs have
fallen, and their cries have fallen on deaf ears  in this world. Everyone seems
to be more interested in backing that raging  cowboy Bush as he declares his
country going into war against a yet  unidentified enemy. The attack on the WTC
and Pentagon, is a clear act of  terror that I, and millions of Palestinians,
denounce. Yet it must be  really painful to see how the whole world has had
nothing to do in the  last few days but mourn the victims, while more than a
million and a half  civilian Iraqis have died since the beginning of the US
terror campaign on  Iraq. Why did no one weep for them, why did no one weep for
the hundreds  of thousands in Rwanda, and why is my people's suffering under the
illegal  Israeli occupation no longer interesting to anyone?

 Excuse me if my thoughts are a bit incoherent, or if my sentences seem to  make
little sense, but it is really hard to concentrate with Apache  choppers
hovering a few hundred feet above your head, armored tanks  unleashing their
might on your neighborhood, all sorts of missiles  flashing across your window,
and a nearby building being obliterated to  rubble. If you don't hear from me
anymore, then know that one of those  missiles has managed to find its way to my
room, turning me into a  meaningless number in a meaningless statistic that no
one will pay  attention to. For some inexplicable reason I felt like writing
this here  and now, and sharing it with you, I would really appreciate it if you
could pass it on to as many people as possible. Israel must not be allowed  to
continue its attacks on Palestinians.

 If terror is to be fought in this world, state terror is the first terror  that
must be eradicated. American attacks on civilians in Iraq, Sudan, and
Yugoslavia, and Israel's continued terror in Palestine are primary  examples.

 Finally, my heart goes out to every victim of terror in the world, to the
people of Hiroshima, Auschwitz, Rwanda, Baghdad, Belgrade, Vietnam, New  York,
and DC, it is at moments like this that I feel your suffering and  pain. I can
now honestly say that I know what it feels like to be a  victim.

  Yours

 Saifedean Ammous

16/9/20001
Ramallah, Palestine

Source (Islamic Association of Palestine)



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[CTRL] Fwd: Rona Barrett of the New Left

AGAIN, in your face! It's RONA!
OK. Tonight's fix. CUT THIS beauty OUT and paste it in your DASHBOARD.

http://globalarchive.ft.com/globalarchive/article.html?id=010915001184&query=Terrorism+Escape+Clause

or dig it out, yourself by going to The London FINANCIAL TIMES at
http://www.financialtimes.com and do a search
on this phrase "TERRORISM ESCAPE CLAUSE" you'll get the url above, an
article that goes like this.
ASSAULT ON AMERICA INVESTIGATION: Terrorism escape clause
in World Trade Center lease PROPERTY:
By NORMA COHEN
The owners of the demolished World Trade Center in lower Manhattan
acquired the buildings just two months ago under a 99-year lease
allowing them to walk away from their investment in the event of "an act
of terrorism".

The owners, Silverstein Properties and Westfield America - a shopping
mall specialist - purchased the buildings from the Port Authority of New
York and New Jersey for Dollars 3.2bn in July and completed the
financing
just two weeks ago.

Neither of the buyers would comment on terms of the lease, but such a
clause would be considered reasonable for the purchase of a building
that had already seen a terrorist bombing and was considered a possible
future
target.

The lease document is understood to spell out certain conditions under
which the lessees could walk away from their obligation to spend Dollars
200m in capital improvements and pay annual rental charges.
It is understood that the buildings are insured for more than Dollars
3billion, enough to cover rebuilding costs. However, an executive
connected to the buyers said: "Ultimately, the decision will be made by
politicians. It is a state and federal government decision about whether
or not to rebuild on the site." Larry Silverstein, chairman of
Silverstein
Properties, said yesterday that he was determined to rebuild on the
site. "It would be the tragedy of tragedies not to rebuild on this part
of New York," Mr Silverstein was quoted as telling the Wall Street
Journal. "It would give the terrorists the victory they seek," he said,
adding that he felt a moral (YEA) obligation to rebuild on the site.
Although there have been some suggestions that the site should be left
vacant as a memorial park, its location at the heart of America's
financial capital means it is probably far too valuable to lie
undeveloped. Copyright: The Financial Times Limited

IN other words, the real ex owners, the bank, Chase Manhattan, CITIBANK,
which is really the IMF...are off the hook. They got their payoff and
are out of it. These new people don't LOSE money, they have 99 years to
make money after they rebuild.

My comment is jeez, If they'd only told us earlier, that the IMF was no
longer the landlord, MAYBE we'd have gotten OUR kid off whatever
floor! THEY damn well KNEW it was coming. Ben Chambers, of 47th floor
said in PEOPLE MAGAZINE today "last few weeks they've been making us
have ESCAPE DRILLS!" SOMEBODY UPSTAIRS KNEW!

So, to sum this up, no big IMF or NYC bank was left holding the bag, the
new lessors (who bought a pig in a poke) saved a few billion tearing the
old ratty thing down for free and cheap. It was a firetrap and they knew
it, shafts and stairwells carried heat. NOBODY CARED what terrorists
were going to DO to this bldg. It hadn't been owned by IMF city bank and
CHASE MANHATTAN for several WEEKS! The new lessors can collect and
rebuild. Hey, BAD TIMING TERRORISTS. You just gave the BUSH OIL COMPANY
and its KUWAIT and SAUDI chums just the spectacular HORROR SHOW that
they always wanted! WTC HARBOR! THE WHOLE MIDDLE EAST ON A PLATE as the
spoils of a long and costly (let me rephrase that) CHEAP war. Cheap cuz
they own the pentagon and the war toy companies so they make bux there
and your son's life is real cheap. Army boys get what, a 100$ a week?

So citizens of the USA? How do you spell SHAFT? The people always get
the gov they deserve! We who let FLORIDA VOTE HIM IN deserve him. We
who drive gas guzzlers deserved BUSH and OIL PREXY. Just a month ago,
KUWAIT AND THE BUSH HOUSTON OIL COMPANIES all merged. Want that current
event sent you by me?

Someone should get Ed Begley and all the celeb visionaries to impeach
THE GAS CAR and give us a clean air world. No cancer for your grandkids.
We had such great AIR in LA the four days jets didn't fly. Maybe we can
run airplanes on something other than fossil fuel, too.

[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] Germany refuses to join in NATO military action






Source:  http://www.paknews.com/main.php?id=6&date1=2001-09-16

Germany refuses to join in NATO
military action

ISLAMABAD, Sep 16 (PNS): Following the pattern of Norway, Germany
has also declined to participate in any direct military action
launched by North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) to combat
terrorism.
    According to Voice of Germany
(VOG), the country would
take measures only to facilitate the administrative work for its
allies.
    NATO's policy-making council
invoked a Cold War-era mutual
defence pledge for the first time Wednesday, declaring that the
attack on the US was an attack on all allies and could draw a
collective military response
    It is pertinent to mention
here that Norway has already
announced its refusal to participate in any military action
launched by NATO against Afghanistan.






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[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] The Subversion of America by the Science/Energy/Drug/Secrecy Cabal -- and the solution






The Subversion of America by the Science/Energy/Drug/Secrecy Cabal
-- and the solution

A most intriguing compilation inspired from last night's discovery of
www.brojon.com below excerpted and augmented with related passages and
links.

While the world recovers from the shock of the September 11, 2001, tragedy
in America, many wonder how, by whom, and to what purpose the faith of Islam
could have been so perverted to justify and motivate such atrocities.

In the article at http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
"Who Is Osama Bin Laden?" by Michel Chossudovsky,
Professor of Economics, University of Ottawa, of the
Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG), Montréal
Posted 12 September 2001, he explains with detailed footnotes how the US
objectives implemented by its CIA during the Afghan war against the USSR are
connected to the illegal drug trade and multinational energy companies'
determination to access the vast oil reserves via a pipeline through
Yugoslavia or Afghanistan and Pakistan, and how "CIA sponsored guerrilla
training was [intentionally] integrated with the teachings of Islam"
bringing about this perversion so that "Islamic terrorism" could become a
tool of American foreign policy ironically and intentionally visited on
America 9-11.

At the same time a premier "public" source of US military intelligence,
JANE'S: REPORT SHOWS IRAQ'S SADDAM
NOT BIN LADEN ATTACKED WTC
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr010919_1_n.sh
tml

The Machiavellianism of modern politics is also being fueled by the
ammorality of modern science which since WWII has basically been co-opted,
taken over via funding and dual-use US secrecy restrictions, and harnessed
by the same military-intelligence-industrial complex that President
Eisenhower warned us about that is responsible for the mentality of the
CIA's covert and brutal enforcement of US heavy handed foreign policy around
the globe.

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/2001/09/09/stinwenws01025.html
SCIENCE LOOKS FOR NEW EINSTEIN TO REWRITE
THE LAWS OF PHYSICS -- Hawking, et. al., on "multiverse"

A theoretical physicist who fancies himself as this "new Einstein"
because of his post-quantum physics of consciousness "theory",
Dr. Jack Sarfatti PhD's Internet Science Education Project's
advanced theoretical physics networking http://www.stardrive.org ,
mentioned repeatedly in stories about his old friend Ira Einhorn who claims
to have been framed for murder for reasons related to this information
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ira-einhorn , discusses information for
decades being monitored by the CIA Directorate of Science and Technology
perhaps as part of an overall "blind alley strategy" to inflate pieces of
the multi-issue and multi-faceted secrecy puzzle to prevent the public from
putting the pieces together to see the nature and scope of what is
really happening as corruption (unabated fear, ignorance, arrogance and
greed) in science and technology infects governmental, economic,
industrial, and corporate policies and officials "to the highest levels".
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dcwilliams/message/120
See also related post on Star Wars and HAARP info at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dcwilliams/message/124


http://www.brojon.com/frontpage/bj073001.html
"SON OF STAR WARS" MISSILE DEFENSE --
IS IT A FRAUDULENT DECEPTION ???   7/30/01

http://www.brojon.com/frontpage/bj072301.html
SON OF STAR WARS -
THE HAARP / FORT GREELY CONNECTION   7/21/01

http://www.brojon.com/frontpage/bj040501.html
HAARP: WEATHER, POPULATION, AND MIND CONTROL
--- AND THE "EDUCATIONAL-RESEARCH-COMPLEX"

It is not just the advanced weaponry issue obfuscated by this secrecy policy
and "blind alley" suppression strategy implemented by America's media and
educational institutions, but also the applications for energy and
environmental remediation of history's most suppressed vegetable, the hemp
plant, which was made illegal even for biofuels coincident with the rise of
the petroleum/fossil-fuel monopolies -- an insane and cynical DrugWar
prohibition flying in the face of every government report since Nixon which
all support ending the fraud on the US Congress and its people whereby hemp
has been outlawed as marijuana http://www.jackherer.com
http://www.chrisconrad.com  Because of its prolific biomass per acre, it is
estimated that a small portion of the fallow US farmland grown in hemp and
converted to biofuels would replace all the fossil fuels used for US
transportation.  Instead, what do we get?  Wars over drugs and wars over
energy.


http://www.brojon.com
[excerpt from article at end of this post...current bottom line of this url]

"The current 'war' on Afghanistani terrorism is a misdirection and a
hoax. As pointed out in the book "Black Gold Hot Gold" the oil expected to
flow from the vast oilfields under the Russian Caspian Sea, discovered about
20 years ago remains undrilled and untapped. That field contains about 500
years worth of oil at p

[CTRL] Fwd: A LONG VIEW









>
>by William Mandel
>Oakland, California
>
> 9/11/01 5:36 PM
>The attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center
> are the most important event in world history since the collapse of the
> Soviet Union.
>The disappearance of the USSR ended a half century in
> which two powers dominated the world. The casualties in New York,
> Washington, and in the skies made an end to the belief that the United
> States could continue waging wars costing us no blood, whether in no-fly
> zones over Iraq, in Kosovo, or anywhere else on any continent.
>
>For fifty-six years Washington has successfully conducted
> mass murders of noncombatant civilians from the air with no fear of
> retaliation. In 1945, when Japan could no longer strike back, there was
> Hiroshima, 75,000 killed. Then Nagasaki, 40,000 killed. The Korean War
> cost that country, with no possible means of harming the United
> States, 4,000,000 dead [Encyclopedia Brittanica] versus 34,000
> Americans, or more than 100 Koreans per American. Most of the Korean deaths
> were caused by American carpet bombing (white phosphorus, napalm,
> explosives)to break the will to resist, and therefore
> were predominantly civilian.
>
>The numbers in the Vietnam War were of the same orders of
> magnitude."Desert Storm" has slaughtered 6,000 Iraqi children per month
  since the end of the fighting, due to the embargo against
> necessities.
>
>Until now the vast majority of Americans have clucked
> their tongues over these things and gone about their business. No more.
> The deaths in the collapsed New York towers, the Pentagon, and the crashed
airliner are 6,000 [number corrected post 9/11]. The super-expensive
space and
information age espionage technology of the National Security Agency, as
well
as the more conventional activities of the CIA and FBI are now the
> laughing stock of the world. As to the Defense Intelligence Agency in
> the Pentagon, I wonder if it was accidental that the plane striking that
> building hit exactly the section where that agency was housed.
>
>There is simply nothing Washington can do to restore the
> situation existing before this morning. Even if it decides to blame
> Saddam Hussein, and nukes Baghdad off the face of the earth, it will
> accomplish nothing in a world of suicide bombers and underground
> organizations capable of working in complete secrecy and with perfect
> coordination. Undoubtedly U.S."intelligence"(?!)operations will be multiplied.
 That guarantees absolutely nothing.
>
>The Korean War was accompanied by the rise of
> McCarthyism. It is possible that today's events may bring similar
> hysteria and suppression of civil liberties. Not only would that further diminish the
> civil liberties that are one of this country's proudest achievements,
> but by so doing it would reduce the ability of the citizenry to ask the
> necessary questions about the policies responsible for the hatred of the
> United States expressed in this catastrophe.
>
>The time has come to realize that the motivation that
> brought about our Revolutionary War in 1776 is the strongest single
> force active in the world today. Peoples will be independent, no matter what
> Washington, Wall Street, and Silicon Valley want to do with and in their
> countries.
>The United States must either adapt to that or suffer the
> fate of ancient Rome.
>
>William Mandel, Oakland, California
>(37 years [1958-1995] on Pacifica Radio stations
> 
>


Do you teach in the social sciences?  Consider my SAYING NO TO POWER
(Creative Arts, Berkeley, 1999), for course use.  It was written as a
social history of the U.S. for the past three-quarters of a century
through the eyes of a participant observer in most progressive social
movements (I'm 84), and of the USSR from the
standpoint of a Sovietologist (five earlier books) knowing that country
longer than any other in the profession.  Therefore it is also a history
of the Cold War.  Positive reviews in The Black Scholar, American
Studies in Scandinavia, San Francisco Chronicle, forthcoming in Tikkun,
etc.  Chapters are up at http://www.billmandel.net

[CTRL] Electromagnetic Pulse Bombs?

2001-09-21 Thread Chris Case


-Caveat Lector-

In the blink of an eye, electromagnetic bombs could throw civilization
back 200 years.
And terrorists can build them for $400.

BY JIM WILSON Lead illustration by Edwin Herder

The next Pearl Harbor will not announce itself with a searing flash of
nuclear light or with the plaintive wails of those dying of Ebola or its
genetically engineered twin. You will hear a sharp crack in the
distance. By the time you mistakenly identify this sound as an innocent
clap of thunder, the civilized world will have become unhinged.
Fluorescent lights and television sets will glow eerily bright, despite
being turned off. The aroma of ozone mixed with smoldering plastic will
seep from outlet covers as electric wires arc and telephone lines melt.
Your Palm Pilot and MP3 player will feel warm to the touch, their
batteries overloaded. Your computer, and every bit of data on it, will
be toast. And then you will notice that the world sounds different too.
The background music of civilization, the whirl of internal-combustion
engines, will have stopped. Save a few diesels, engines will never start
again. You, however, will remain unharmed, as you find yourself thrust
backward 200 years, to a time when electricity meant a lightning bolt
fracturing the night sky. This is not a hypothetical, son-of-Y2K
scenario. It is a realistic assessment of the damage the Pentagon
believes could be inflicted by a new generation of weapons--E-bombs.

The first major test of an American electromagnetic bomb is scheduled
for next year. Ultimately, the Army hopes to use E-bomb technology to
explode artillery shells in midflight. The Navy wants to use the
E-bomb's high-power microwave pulses to neutralize antiship missiles.
And, the Air Force plans to equip its bombers, strike fighters, cruise
missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles with E-bomb capabilities. When
fielded, these will be among the most technologically sophisticated
weapons the U.S. military establishment has ever built.

There is, however, another part to the E-bomb story, one that military
planners are reluctant to discuss. While American versions of these
weapons are based on advanced technologies, terrorists could use a less
expensive, low-tech approach to create the same destructive power. "Any
nation with even a 1940s technology base could make them," says Carlo
Kopp, an Australian-based expert on high-tech warfare. "The threat of
E-bomb proliferation is very real." POPULAR MECHANICS estimates a basic
weapon could be built for $400.

ILLUSTRATION BY JOHN BATCHELOR

An Old Idea Made New The theory behind the E-bomb was proposed in 1925
by physicist Arthur H. Compton--not to build weapons, but to study
atoms. Compton demonstrated that firing a stream of highly energetic
photons into atoms that have a low atomic number causes them to eject a
stream of electrons. Physics students know this phenomenon as the
Compton Effect. It became a key tool in unlocking the secrets of the atom.

Ironically, this nuclear research led to an unexpected demonstration of
the power of the Compton Effect, and spawned a new type of weapon. In
1958, nuclear weapons designers ignited hydrogen bombs high over the
Pacific Ocean. The detonations created bursts of gamma rays that, upon
striking the oxygen and nitrogen in the atmosphere, released a tsunami
of electrons that spread for hundreds of miles. Street lights were blown
out in Hawaii and radio navigation was disrupted for 18 hours, as far
away as Australia. The United States set out to learn how to "harden"
electronics against this electromagnetic pulse (EMP) and develop EMP weapons.

America has remained at the forefront of EMP weapons development.
Although much of this work is classified, it's believed that current
efforts are based on using high-temperature superconductors to create
intense magnetic fields. What worries terrorism experts is an idea the
United States studied but discarded--the Flux Compression Generator (FCG).

A Poor Man's E-Bomb An FCG is an astoundingly simple weapon. It consists
of an explosives-packed tube placed inside a slightly larger copper
coil, as shown below. The instant before the chemical explosive is
detonated, the coil is energized by a bank of capacitors, creating a
magnetic field. The explosive charge detonates from the rear forward. As
the tube flares outward it touches the edge of the coil, thereby
creating a moving short circuit. "The propagating short has the effect
of compressing the magnetic field while reducing the inductance of the
stator [coil]," says Kopp. "The result is that FCGs will produce a
ramping current pulse, which breaks before the final disintegration of
the device. Published results suggest ramp times of tens of hundreds of
microseconds and peak currents of tens of millions of amps." The pulse
that emerges makes a lightning bolt seem like a flashbulb by comparison.

An Air Force spokesman, who describes this effect as similar to a
lightning strike, points out that electronics systems

Re: [CTRL] Woe to Ariel?


-Caveat Lector-

What area do you in?

Jacob (NYC)


>From: Damaeus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [CTRL] Woe to Ariel?
>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 06:33:27 -0500
>
>-Caveat Lector-
>
>On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:16:37 -0700, The Public Image
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted article
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, which said:
>
> > Saba wrote:
> >
> > > You do not like my stuff do not read it and I am sick of your
> > > crap.  I know what you are...maybe not who, but what.
> >
> > firstly, i don't post things on this list often enough for you to
> > be sick of my crap.  i only toss in my two cents when i think
> > i've got something of value to add.  perhaps you might follow my
> > example.  and frankly, i ignore very nearly everything you post,
> > but your stupid bible code bit tonite was downright offensive.
> > if you can predict major events with such accuracy, why weren't
> > you talking about this shit yesterday, or the day before that?
>
>What difference would it have made?  If someone had predicted this before
>it happened, people would call him a complete nut.  If it actually
>happened, they would have called him a conspirator and turned him in to
>the FBI.  Prophets can't win.  It's the nature of the job.  Prophets
>throughout history have been hunted, tortured and crucified.
>
>Damaeus
>--
>..
>| AIM:Damaeus   |Damaeus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |
>| ICQ:18405845  |New Age, Conspiracy, UFO, Alien TV Listings |
>|---'. http://www.web-recon.com/continuum/tv |
>| YahooMessenger:Damaeus |  http://www.web-recon.com |
>''---'
>
>http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
>propagandic
>screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
>sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
>directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
>major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
>That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
>always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
>credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
>http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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>
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>
>Om


_
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http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] You have already capitulated


-Caveat Lector-

I see what you are saying.

What will awaken intelligence?

What area do live in?

Love & Peace...Jacob (NYC)


>From: Dale Stonehouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [CTRL] You have already capitulated
>Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 04:54:31 -0700
>
>
>I know many people who believe they would die if they had to live without
>money and/or an automobile.
>
>These people long ago became citizens of the New World Order. They are
>completely brainwashed into thinking the current system is the only one
>that will support their life.
>
>So ask yourself a few questions.
>
>Do you use money created from nothing by the NWO planners? If so, you have
>already capitulated.
>
>Do you have credit cards with available credit, used or unused? If so, you
>have already capitulated.
>
>Do you buy the Biblical "prophecy" and  believe it will be fulfilled? If
>so, you have already capitulated.
>
>Do you still think you live in a democracy, despite overwhelming evidence
>that the U.S.A. has been a fascist military dictatorship for at least 50
>years? If so, you have already capitulated.
>
>It is not America that needs to be subdued in order to implement their
>plans. That was done long ago. No, it is still necessary to eliminate all
>other currencies and banking systems before the world can be united. For as
>long as humans believe they need currency to live, controlled by some
>central authority, there will be no avoiding the New World Order.
>
>But then most of us never think about how we would live in the absence of
>our "god," money.


_
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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[CTRL] Combating Terrorism. OR -[( Blows against the Empire )]

2001-09-21 Thread Nurev Ind.


-Caveat Lector-

<< From Bill Thomson, Professor at the University of Michigan and a Middle
East expert:


Combating Terrorism

Bill Thomson

September 12, 2001


Yesterday's horrible events in New York and Washington, DC require all of
us to express collective disbelief at the appalling loss of innocent human
life and to express our heartfelt condolences to the victims, their
families and their friends. Such brutal slaughter must be unconditionally
condemned whenever and wherever it occurs. No cause, no matter how nobly
perceived by its followers, can justify such wanton destruction of innocent
people.


Today, as we inevitably begin the healing process and the search for
answers and solutions, there is much speculation about who the
perpetrators of these acts might be, and what form an appropriate retaliation
might take. This morning's New York Times states that "the best defense
against terrorism is good, timely intelligence", and other media, government
and military officials suggest a wide range of retaliatory options,
ranging
from overwhelming military strikes to Draconian suspensions of our most
cherished freedoms and liberties--freedoms and liberties which define the

unique American experience.

In order to understand yesterday's events and to prevent their
reoccurrence,
I believe that we need to consider two ideas. First, I think we must
accept
the fact that there is not, and can never be, a 100% foolproof
intelligence
or military remedy for terrorist acts. I would even go so far as to say
that
unless certain basic changes are made in our political and economic
outlook
as Americans, such acts will inevitably reoccur, and they will become
increasing deadly. Just as we today look at the 1993 bombing of the World

Trade Center as "mild" in comparison to yesterday's events, I believe
that
with the increased miniaturization of nuclear capability and the
widespread
availability of chemical and biological toxins, some day we will be faced

with events of overwhelmingly tragic dimensions. Just as there is no way
to
stop people from committing murder if they are willing to give up their
lives, there can also not be any way to guarantee our collective safety
from
individuals or groups who are willing to sacrifice their lives in a
terrorist
attack. The second consideration is ask a question which has been
completely
absent in the analysis of yesterday's tragedy--why would a person or
group
commit such a heinous act? Why would the United States be chosen, and why

would the particular targets of the World Trade Center and the Pentagon
be
picked? Whoever is found to be the perpetrators of yesterday's terrorism,
it
is certain that they will be demonized and characterized as somehow being

outside the pale of human understanding. And if we demonize sufficiently,
we
might be able to justify our need for revenge, but we will have missed a
crucial opportunity for understanding, and for gaining the insight and
wisdom
that are the only tools with which we might avoid future attacks.


At the risk of sounding like an apologist for a despicable act, I would
like
to provide some possibilities for understanding the roots of this
tragedy:

 1. We Americans, comprising some 4% of the world's population, consume
approximately 40% of its resources. We appear to assume that the
resources
found in other parts of the world are somehow our birthright. Imagine how

this is experienced in third world countries, many of whom have been the
recipient of United States military attacks.


2. We maintain this consumption, in large part, because we have the most
powerful military in the world, and since WW II we have not hesitated to
use
it for political and/or economic gain in places like China (1945-46),
Korea
(1950-53), China (1950-53), Guatemala (1954), Indonesia (1958), Cuba
(1959-60), Guatemala (1960), Congo (1964), Peru (1965), Laos (1964-73),
Vietnam (1961-73), Cambodia (1969-70), Guatemala (1967-69), Grenada
(1983),
Libya (1986), El Salvador (1980s), Nicaragua (1980s), Panama (1989), Iraq

(1991-present), Sudan (1998), Afghanistan (1998) and Yugoslavia (1999).
We
have bombed each of these countries in turn, and in NO case did a
democratic
government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result. Through
our
weapons and/or proxies, innocent civilians o> Indonesia, East Timor,
Chile,
Nicaragua and Palestine have also been victims of the United States. Is
it
any wonder that the level of hatred of the United States is so high?
Former
President Jimmy Carter stated, "We have only to go to Lebanon, to Syria,
to
Jordan, to witness firsthand the intense hatred among many people for the

United States, because we bombed and shelled and unmercifully killed
totally
innocent villagers, women and children and farmers and housewives, in
those
villages around Beirut...as a result, we have become a kind of Satan in
the
minds of those who are deeply resentful. That is what precipitated the
taking
of hostages and that is what has precipi

Re: [CTRL] I see bad signs

2001-09-21 Thread Nurev Ind.


-Caveat Lector-

flw wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> I see bad signs.
>
> The smart thing would be to conduct a determined, professional
> operation to destroy the attackers. I fear the D.C. armchair
> stategists, international jugglers, and bureacratic crusaders goaded
> on by drooling military corporate contractors will be launching a mirror
> image of the Insane War on Drugs. After all many of these newly minted
> "anti terrorist experts" have long been wondering around vacant eyed and
> depressed since the Cold War ended.
>
> If this thing is turned into a self righteous, arrogant "crusade" against
> all the alleged evil groups in the world (as defined by us) we will quickly
> lose all international sympathy and instead engender fear, loathing and
> jealously over nation state sovereignty which ultimately might very well
> encourage even more terror attacks on our homeland or get us
> bogged down in some God forsaken flea bitten foreign killing fields.
>
> We could wind up losing huge amounts of taxpayers dollars to a never
> ending War Against All Evil as well as leaving our Bill of Rights in tatters.
>
> Now is the time to be as vigilant against the Domestic Political Terrorists
> who seek any excuse to "bomb" the Bill of Rights as we will be against
> our international enemies. When you hear some blow dried politician
> use the words: "I am not in favor of giving up our civil liberties but..."
> assume that bugger is about to announce some new police state
> rule.
>
> I do not believe in fear mongeringI do believe in learning valuable
> lessons from History.
> flw


Hear hear.

J2

>
> >Putin and Chirac suggest that UN leads the allies
> >By Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor
> >(Filed: 21/09/2001)
>
> >RUSSIA and France called yesterday for the United Nations to lead the
> >fight against terrorism, in a veiled warning that America should seek
> >explicit approval for military action against Afghanistan.
>
> >A Kremlin statement said President Putin and President Chirac had agreed
> >in a telephone conversation to back "emerging consensus in favour of uniting
> >the world community's long-term efforts" against terrorism following the
> >attacks on New York and Washington.
>
> >"It was stressed that it was vital, to this end, to make use of all i
> >nternational mechanisms, first and foremost the UN and its Security
> >Council," the statement said.
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] US cyber forces attacking EU banks

2001-09-21 Thread Jei

-Caveat Lector-

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 02:40:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: InfoSec News <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ISN] U.S. could use cybertactics to seize bin Laden's assets

http://www.computerworld.com/storyba/0,4125,NAV47_STO64072,00.html

By DAN VERTON
September 20, 2001

WASHINGTON -- U.S. officials mobilizing to freeze the financial assets
of international terrorist Osama bin Laden may resort to cybermethods,
such as hacking, to cut off the money supply that has been used to
finance his terrorist activities, including the Sept. 11 attacks on
the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, of which he is the prime
suspect.

Intelligence and security experts said the U.S. government, using
diplomatic channels, doesn't expect to receive cooperation from all of
the hundreds of banks, holding companies and other private enterprises
and fictitious front companies that bin Laden uses to hide his
estimated $300 million personal fortune. As a result, the U.S.
intelligence community might use cybermethods to put a virtual
stranglehold on bin Laden's global terror organization, Al Qaeda.
While acknowledging that the operation could take years, security
officials said that such an attempt was possible.

Experts recognize that finding bin Laden's money, which is believed
hidden in 50 countries in small amounts at hundreds of banks,
companies and charitable organizations, will be difficult. Still, if
the accounts that store the money can be located, hacking experts said
it is well within the technical capabilities of the U.S. intelligence
community to make it disappear forever.

In the U.S., the Knight-Ridder news service quoted a U.S. Treasury
Department official, who spoke anonymously, saying that the government
ordered bin Laden's U.S. assets seized in the mid-1990s, but nothing
was recovered. However, the government said in January it had seized
assets worth $245 million from Taliban, the militant Islamic group
running the government of Afghanistan, the news service said.

Hacking into the computer systems of banks and other financial
institutions around the world raises a number of coordination and
legal challenges, said experts.

"You'd need a lot of things in place," said Ken Van Wyk, chief
technology officer at Para-Protect Services Inc., an IT security firm
in Centreville, Va. For example, federal agents would need in-depth
knowledge of the bank and how the bank operates, the names and account
numbers in question, and at a minimum, access codes, such as personal
identification numbers, to the accounts, said Van Wyk.

In many instances, inside help, such as a bank employee, would be
required to both learn the inner workings of the bank's IT operations
and to gain unquestioned access to the accounts. However, if bin
Laden's associates who control the account can show that the funds
were stolen, the financial institution would be required to simply
restore them, said experts.

"We have seen theft of money out of banks using electronic means. It
has certainly happened," said Van Wyk. For example, in 1994, a
24-year-old Russian programmer hacked into Citibank's systems and made
off with $10 million. Likewise, a German bank this week threatened a
lawsuit against producers of a local television show for hiring
hackers to break into the bank's servers and download customer names,
account numbers, PINs and IP addresses,

But the bulk of the work that needs to be done to hack bin Laden's
money would be nontechnical in nature, Van Wyk said. "I would expect
that the name on the account is probably not Osama bin Laden. It's
probably extremely well hidden," he said.

"To steal it would require some insiders who are sympathetic to the
cause," said Winn Schwartau, an information warfare expert and
president of security firm Interpact Inc. in Seminole, Fla. "With
corporate shells and fast-moving money, it's going to be difficult."

But not impossible.

Computerworld asked a hacker known as "Gen," the head of a U.S.-based
group of more than 100 hackers, how such a sophisticated hacking
operation might be carried out. Hacking into the bank and stealing the
money would be the easy part, Gen said, in an interview via e-mail.

"There would be two possible attacks to bring this to reality: social
engineering and old-school hacking," said Gen."Hacking would be
accomplished by breaking into the servers of whatever institution he
was hiding his funds in. This type of hacking would really be no
different then hacking a Web server. It's what you do afterward that
would be impressive."

Other practical skills would be critical to pull off such a heist, Gen
said. You would need "someone who can speak his native tongue, someone
who sounds like him [and] possibly someone who looks like him," he
said. In addition, a hacking operation should first have knowledge of
the subject's account structures and the passwords used to secure his
funds, or to alert members of the banks and credit un

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Salon, 1998: Is bin Laden a terrorist mastermind -- or a fall guy?

2001-09-21 Thread Tenorlove


-Caveat Lector-

My hunch from the get-go has been that Bin Laden is being Oswalded. I'm
glad someone with credentials that my friends will accept finally wrote
the same thing. ["Shut up Tenorlove, I don't want to hear your silly
conspiracy theories!" except there were 2 other words between "shut"
and "up" and they used a different word than "silly".]

Thanks, Kris for posting this.

__
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Marshall or Martial? was FIRST WAR OF THE 21ST CENTURY

2001-09-21 Thread Tenorlove


-Caveat Lector-

Marshall law makes me think of Gunsmoke. Martial law makes me think of
Hitler and Stalin. Maybe if there were more of the former it could
prevent the latter.

Tenorlove
showing my age [21 again, 21 always]

<>



__
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] [Fwd: America to Wage War for USSR Inheritance]

2001-09-21 Thread Nurev Ind.

-Caveat Lector-

 Original Message 
Subject: America to Wage War for USSR Inheritance
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 22:59:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: TARGETS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: ?
To: undisclosed-recipients:;

URL for this article: http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/afghan2.htm

www.tenc.net [Emperor's Clothes]

=== America to Wage War for
USSR Inheritance by Anatoli Baranov [posted 20 September 2001]
===

"The operation in Afghanistan has the following objective: to make
the region closer to the zone of USAs vital interests. To begin
with, the American army intends to gain control of the airports
and other areas on Turkmenistans territory (including the former
Soviet republic in Termez).

It is interesting that America is interested in the former Soviet
base Bagram, which is on the territory of Afghanistan. This base
is currently under the control of NATO. In addition, the USA is
going to bring its influence back into NATO: the tragic and very
timely Ahmad Shah Masoods death (Afghan opposition leader).

"This scenario raises a lot of doubts regarding the versions of
the acts of terrorism in New York and Washington, for there is only
one country that is gaining absolute and long-term profit out of
these acts. However there are doubts about the lack of information
of the other members of the western intelligence community regarding
the preparation for the terrorist attack.

Most likely, such information was available, but all of the special
services were blocking it for some reason. In this case, it is
absolutely not important who gave the freedom of action to the
suicidal terrorists."

(Quoted from Mr. Baranov's text, below)

The world is waiting for the war. There are so many different
messages appearing on this subject, it is hard to read them all.

It is also hard to say how many people on the planet try to guess
what will happen in the nearest future. The sources in the Russian
special services are not standing aside in this respect and PRAVDA.Ru
has recently touched upon one of them.

According to the estimations from this very respectable organization,
the USAs incursion into Afghanistan will be carried out taking into
consideration the British and Russian experiences. Missiles and
bombardment will be used under the old scenario and special military
forces will be used as well  nothing new...

America will increase its military presence along the entire 40th
parallel, which is what we can see now in Bosnia, Kosovo, and
Macedonia; soon we will also see it in the republics of Georgia,
Azerbaijan, Turkmenia, and Uzbekistan.

The Injirlik military base, which is deployed in Turkey, will surely
be modernized, and this base will become one of the key points of
the American presence. The establishment of reserve points on the
territory of several countries of the Commonwealth of Independent
States will be performed under different forms. However, the
mid-Caspian area and Turkmenias deposits will be taken under the
control of the United States. It should be mentioned that the
authorities of Azerbaijan and Georgia republics are in willing
contact with NATO and the United States. The republics of Middle
Asia are more reserved in their aspiration to change their orientation
from Russia to the USA, because these republics are situated far
away from the American bases and Russias military presence is there.

The operation in Afghanistan has the following objective: to make
the region closer to the zone of USAs vital interests. To begin
with, the American army intends to gain control of the airports
and other areas on Turkmenistans territory (including the former
Soviet republic in Termez).

It is interesting that America is interested in the former Soviet
base Bagram, which is on the territory of Afghanistan. This base
is currently under the control of NATO. In addition, the USA is
going to bring its influence back into NATO: the tragic and very
timely Ahmad Shah Masoods death (Afghan opposition leader).

Therefore, Russias control over the region of Central Asia is going
to fade away. The same thing will happen with its control over the
Caucasus.

The USA will make the republics of Middle Asia to reconsider the
Collective Security Treaty of the CIS and Russian troops will be
called back to Russian territory. The United States will gain total
control over Central Asia, over the Indian ocean, and the country
will be able to efficiently control the processes in Indo-China
and Indonesia. This will actually bring about the total control of
the United States of America over the Islamic world, since the
moves of Iran, Pakistan, and Iraq will depend upon the military
presence of the United States.

This scenario raises a lot of doubts regarding the versions of the
acts of terrorism in New York and Washington, for there is only
one country that is gaining absolute and long-term profit out of
these acts. However there are doubts abo

Re: [CTRL] Woe to Ariel?

2001-09-21 Thread Damaeus

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 22:16:37 -0700, The Public Image
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, which said:

> Saba wrote:
>
> > You do not like my stuff do not read it and I am sick of your
> > crap.  I know what you are...maybe not who, but what.
>
> firstly, i don't post things on this list often enough for you to
> be sick of my crap.  i only toss in my two cents when i think
> i've got something of value to add.  perhaps you might follow my
> example.  and frankly, i ignore very nearly everything you post,
> but your stupid bible code bit tonite was downright offensive.
> if you can predict major events with such accuracy, why weren't
> you talking about this shit yesterday, or the day before that?

What difference would it have made?  If someone had predicted this before
it happened, people would call him a complete nut.  If it actually
happened, they would have called him a conspirator and turned him in to
the FBI.  Prophets can't win.  It's the nature of the job.  Prophets
throughout history have been hunted, tortured and crucified.

Damaeus
--
..
| AIM:Damaeus   |Damaeus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |
| ICQ:18405845  |New Age, Conspiracy, UFO, Alien TV Listings |
|---'. http://www.web-recon.com/continuum/tv |
| YahooMessenger:Damaeus |  http://www.web-recon.com |
''---'

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: The Jerusalem Post Newspaper : Online News From Israel - Features Article

2001-09-21 Thread RevCOAL

-Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 20 Sep 2001, Saba wrote:
>So here is the story of the man who had plans on the table already for 4
>new buildings to replace World Trade Center..

Because it was one of the designs submitted OVER 30 YEARS AGO, when
the WTC was originally being planned; read the article again, it clearly
states that fact.

June

===
Check out Alternative Kite Radio at
http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com

Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth)
Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere)
Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday)
===

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] All is one


-Caveat Lector-

I am no one's guru.

Please, we are not interested in platitudes ot theories here.

We are walking together, enquiring together.

We are both looking at what is.

We are interested in facts, not interpretations.

Not agreeing or disagreeing.

Looking, listening.

All is not two.

Alone (= all is one) but not isolated.

Isolation, separation are inventions of thought.

If Ghandi opposed, exerted will, made a choice, then he was violent.

If he acted effortlessly & choicelessly without motive, then there was no
violence.

Being a violent person, I don't know what is effortless, choiceless action
without a motive.




>From: "Joshua Tinnin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Jacob Sabat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [604] Force
>Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 01:02:27 -0700
>
>OK, this is getting plainly silly, Jacob. Your apparent inability to speak
>to others here on this list with "plain language," not always guru-sounding
>platitudes, is hurting your ability to communicate those thoughts to
>others,
>I think, and you have many good things to say. So, may I present this view?
>
>In my view, there is I, Me, which some have called the "soul" or "spirit,"
>or "Ego, Super Ego and Id," or what have you.
>
>There is the "we," and you and I are the parts of it, if referring to you
>and me.
>
>And then there is the whole, of which we all, and everything, is a part.
>And
>we, all of us, and everything, is connected. To deny that connection is to
>not realize that, and that is destructive, as nothing lives or exists in
>complete isolation, spiritually nor physically.
>
>However, if you simply state that there is nothing but the whole, and that
>we should always and only see that, then you contradict yourself, for why
>would you try to convince anyone (another person) that there is anything
>but
>this if that were true? It wouldn't be necessary, if you realize that
>fully.
>
>Additionally, if, as you say, you refer to personal views and philosophies,
>and how we view the big picture, then may I present to you one obvious
>example: if Mohatma Gandhi had not opposed the British Empire with the
>sheer
>will of opposition by inaction, which is force, then they might still be
>ruling India today, yet he accomplished this without firing a shot or
>taking
>violent force into his philosophy. I don't think that Gandhi himself, if he
>were alive today, would deny that, presented today with this debate. If you
>wish to accomplish anything, including what he accomplished, in this world
>ruled mainly by force of wills, then you must use force, but only when
>necessary, and, in his and my views, it is best accomplished by non-violent
>force (i.e. not taking up arms). The form which you choose to embody and
>therefore enact this force is up to you, the individual (and there it is
>again, the I, the me), and, to make the very best choices, one must look
>deeply into one's self, as well as to realize that there is the whole, and
>how you affect it by your use of force.
>
>So, may I present to you, Jacob, that force takes many forms, and that it
>exists anyway, even without us humans, and that not seeing the potential
>good of that is not really seeing the whole at all.
>
>OK, off my soapbox ...
>
>- jt
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Jacob Sabat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > As long as there is a me & a you, there will be struggle all the time.
> >
> > Since the "me" is made of contradictory fragments, there is struggle
>within
> > oneself too.
> >
> > (The "me" is not whole; it is not an individual (undivisible) & it can
>never=
> >
> > be whole).
> >
> > When you see this fact, with all your heart, the rest will follow.
> >
> > Don't agree or disagree, find out, go to the very end of the enquiry.
> >
> > >From: Craig Durkin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >On Fri, Sep 21, 2001 at 03:26:33AM +, Jacob Sabat wrote:
> > > > Force is always violence.
> > > >
> > > > When the me is not, there is just flow, like an instrument being
>played.
> > > >
> > >
> > >I just don't understand. What is the purpose of this? What is the point
>of
> > >taking apart a simple quote from a movie, and seeing as an ideological
> > >attack? I just don't see why.
> > >
> > >I understand the whole hippie/spirtual/new-age/grand unifying theory du
> > >jour attractiveness. It doesn't do it for me, but I understand it. And
>with=
> >
> > >a lot of those schools of thought, especially the area you tend to be
> > >leaning (judging from your past posts), "open-mindedness" is key. The
>sort
> > >of openmindedness where one thinks "maybe they are just quoting a
> > >movie...maybe this isn't a statement of oppression."
> > >
> > >Not everything is a struggle...


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Re: [CTRL] [604] Re: The I can't bring love & peace