[CTRL] 9-11 EVIDENCE KIT - The Truth About Sept 11--J2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 11:57 AM 6/14/03 -0400, you wrote:
-Caveat
Lector-
-Caveat Lector-
9-11 EVIDENCE KIT - The Truth About Sept 11
-Original Message-
From: Gerard Holmgren
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 14 June 2003 13:12
To: Undisclosed Recipients
Subject: evidence kit
(The Web pages below  have been backed up.
If any links are dead, the backed up page can
be mailed on request.)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
THE TRUTH ABOUT SEPT 11
Last updated June 14 2003
---
Section 1: Airforce stand-down
1:1 It has become popular mythology in the media
that fighter jets were scrambled to intercept the
hijacked planes. This is completely untrue as the
following research shows.
Guilty For 9-11: Bush, Rumsfeld, Myers,
by Illarion Bykov and Jared Israel, 14 Nov 2001
http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-1.htm
1:2 Mr. Cheney's Cover Story -- Section 2
of Guilty For 9-11, 20 Nov 2001
http://emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-2.htm
1:3 9-ll: Nothing Urgent, by George Szamuely,
Research & documentation by Illarion Bykov
and Jared Israel, Jan 2002
http://emperor.vwh.net/indict/urgent.htm
1:4 Planes  "did scramble "  on 9/11,
they just  "arrived late"
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/indict/faq.htm
1:5 Scrambled Messages, by George Szamuely,
12 Dec 2001
http://www.nypress.com/14/50/taki/bunker.cfm
1:6 Air National Guard Mission and Vision statements
http://nerdcities.com/guardian/SeptemberEleventh/ang-mission.htm
1:7 Russian Air Force chief says official 9/11 story impossible
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/airf.htm
Scrambling of fighter jets to intercept stray
aircraft is a routine procedure.
Here's an example of how routine it is.
6/16/03
Careful guys. Almost all of this stuff regarding the Air Force stand down
IS WRONG!
We have recently completed our research on 9/11 and these allegations are
simply based
on wrong information. There was almost certainly NO STAND DOWN.
There were no fictitious hijackers. They were real.
There was foreknowledge enough to speculate on.
I interviewed people from Andrews AFB just after 9/11, and some months
later. The reasons
for not scrambling fighters is more mundane than stand down orders BUT
MUCH MORE SERIOUS
FOR US.
We are producing a multimedia CD with the very best info to date and some
real analysis rater than
conspiratorial mumbo jumbo. The real answers will not come as a surprise
to many of you, but the
bullshit will be explained away. 
FTW is wrong about the stand down.
Emporer's Clothes is wrong about the stand down.
I warned each of them early on that they were jumping the gun but they
committed to this theory.
This has lost them credibility and sent them off on wild goose
chases.
This is not a put down of either of them. Their other work on 9/11 is
valuable. But they should
not have committed to speculation so early.
Stay tuned. 
NUREV
1.13 Jet
Sent to probe Fla. Gov. Plane.
Netscape news. May 15 2003.
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?floc=NW_2-T&oldflok=FF-APO-11
10&idq=/ff/story/0001/20030515/001648315.htm&sc=1110&floc=NW_2-T
The procedures were already in place before
Sept 11 2001.  It  happened  67 times in the 10
months
between September 2000 and June 2001.
1.8 Use of military jets jumps since 9/11.
Associated Press Aug 13 2002.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/completetimeline/2002/ap081302.html
1.9 CBS News. Scrambling to prevent another
9/11 Aug 14 2002
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/14/attack/main518632.shtml
1.10 Preventing another 9/11 Military.com
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/1,13319,FL_jet_081502,00.html
1.11 ABC News Jets on high Alert. Aug 13 2002.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/homefront020813.html
1.12 Military now notified immediately of unusual
air traffic events. Fox news Aug 12 2002
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,60245,00.html#top
So on Sept 11, 2001 - Why were no fighter jets
scrambled, and why has a cover up story been
concocted?
In the unlikely event that the airforce failed
through incompetence, ( not once but 4 times! )
where is the major inquiry?
I have seen bigger inquiries into car crashes
at race tracks.
---
Section 2: Complicit behaviour of G.W.Bush
It has become common mythology in the media
that George W. Bush was at Booker Elementary
School when he learned of the first WTC crash.
This is a lie. Why is Bush lying about where he
was, and what he knew?
2:1 Guilty for 9-11 Section 3: Bush in the open
by Illarion Bykov and Jared Israel.
http://www.emperors-clothes.com/indict/indict-3.htm
This is not the only lie Bush has told about his
movements that morning. See how many times
he has changed his story.
2:2 Sept 11 attacks- evidence of US collusion
by Steve Grey.
http://austin.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=2342&group=webcast
(Read the section called "A tangle of lies")
2.3 Bush gets tangled in his lies Part 1.
A strange press conference. By Jared israel
and Francisco Gil-White  Sept 25 2002.
http://emper

Re: [CTRL] Jews Burning Israeli Flag...

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 07:10 PM 2/4/03 -0800, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector- 
Looks like many Jews outside Israel are not too happy with Israeli
Zionism
Wrong.
Don't make the mistake of taking anti-Zionist propaganda seriously. They
would like to
show that Israel is SO terrible that ii is even driving away Jews. This
is bullshit.
SOME Jews are not too happy, but they are not many. As a matter of fact,

there has been a re-affirming of support for Israel among American Jews
which has
not been seen since the Six Day War.
J2

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Shuttle Disaster: The Hand of God?

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 09:25 PM 2/3/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 2/3/2003
8:23:51 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Kudos
to the fallen adventurers; and kudos to the remaining visionaries and
pioneers in America and the world over who diligently work for the
progress of humanity to deliver us from the primitive hate-pits of hairy
simians like Hoffman. 

Screw you Dave.
Bill. 
Poor Bill Shannon. No one likes or appreciates his misunderstood racist
shmuck guru Hoffman.
Because you are such an admirable fellow Bill, I want to let you know
that I  L_O_V_E 
Hoffman. You and Hoffman, and the other racist shitheads are the wind
beneath our wings.
It's guys like YOU who keep Israel alive and vital.
Once again, thanks.
Speaking for all the Jews in the world, and especially for the Elders of
Zion who ( as you well
know,) control it, we appreciate your hatred.
Keep up the good work.
Joshua2
[ Whose uncle Hymie sits on the Supreme Council to Encourage Christian
Racists - E of Z.]




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Re: [CTRL] Sharon calls

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 05:27 PM 1/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/29/2003
8:55:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
BTW – anything that Jewwish
citizens get in Israel, the Muslim citizens will also
get

Well they didn't get the gas masks, but maybe they are getting smallpox
vaccinations.  I heard the business of the vaccine on
television.  I wish I could remember just which.  It might have
been C-SPAN.  I remember being quite envious that Israel had come up
with a good vaccine that didn't have the side effects our does.  If
I can locate a reference somewhere, I'll put it on. 
Prudy 
Not surprisingly, you don't even know who the players are in this game.

Israeli Arabs, AKA Palestinians who stayed and became citizens of
Israel,
did get gas masks. 
" Palestinians," who are NOT Israeli citizens, and who cheered
Sadam as he rained down
Scuds on Israel, didn't get gas masks from the Israeli government nor
should they have.
They were not the targets. And if they wanted gas masks, they should have
asked you to 
send them some.
J2



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Re: [CTRL] Sharon calls

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 08:30 AM 1/29/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/29/2003
8:10:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Many Palestinians have said that they fear a worsening of the Middle
East
crisis during a second term in power for Mr Sharon. "You have Sharon
in a
new government, a war against Iraq imminent, the disappearance of
the
peace process: all these factors," said Palestinian cabinet minister
Saeb
Erekat.

Well not so much a worsening as an elimination.  I foresee that
since all Israeli have been vaccinated against smallpox (and not with
that killer thing we're getting here; they've developed a decent vaccine
for Israeli use), and as soon as the war with Iraq gets going, there will
be a sudden "bio attack" of smallpox on Israel which will of
course be blamed on Saddam.  It will not sicken the Israeli, but
the  the unvaccinated Palestinians will die off, and Israel's major
problem will be solved.   I guess it's a modern enactment of
that old saw, "killing two birds with one stone."  Ah
well.  Prudy
Do you even realize what you just did you silly old cow?
You just recreated the old " blood libel " of the Jews
poisoning the well.
The Jews causing the black plague.
If you want to know why we support Israel, YOU and people like you are
the reason.
We know that not much really changes with you people. Fortunately, Israel
can and will
do whatever it needs to do to exist.
If you don't like it, tough shit.
Joshua2




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always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Going Too Far:Israel Plans Killings on US Soil

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 10:24 AM 1/24/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/24/2003
9:19:44 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It is
impossible to counter the barrage of disinformation you post here. 
There is no funding available to pay someone to do that kind of work.


The disinformation dearest Zuukie comes from you and your ilk, not
me.
Now,now Shannon. We both know that you are full of shit.
Would you like me to dig into Nurev's archives and post the reams
of
lies and foolishness you post?
Eh Bubby?
I've got REAMS of bukllshit with your name on it. Warmed over neo-Nazi
shit
from our pal Hoffman. Arab propaganda for the feeble minded. You
know.
J2

I
present fact-based pieces which tend NOT to see the light of day in the
controlled mainstream media. My only desire is to see America stay true
to our founding principles and to expose the real conspiracy and
conspirators. 
Bill. 

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] China Headed Towards Financial Disaster

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 08:40 PM 1/23/03 -0600, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
   Isn't the Bush Family heavily invested in China? Could W's
war on Iraq be
an effort to funnel monies into Family coffers to offset losses expected
in
China?
Yes. They are. Presscot Bush, the President's uncle, opened up China
with
the help of Daddy Bush. Bush and Kissinger are the 2 biggest corporate
Pimps
doing business with the Chi gov.
There is NO connection between going into Iraq and the Chinese economy.
There IS
however a connection between going into Afghanistan and delivering oil to
a more
industrialized China. THIS IS A DIDASTER FOR NATURAL WORLD. Getting
the Chinese off their bicycles and into cars is more than the natural
environment can
handle. 
Thank goodness Capitalism is collapsing even quicker than i had
anticipated. China
can not exist with a rich elite and 200 million starving unemployed and
unsupported
workers.
This is really good news for the world.
Joshua2

-Original
Message-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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From: Conspiracy Theory Research List

Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 10:28 PM 1/15/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/15/2003
9:25:08 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Why is it worse breaking American
law than the law of some other country?
Because I am an American, that's why.
Bill. 
ME TOO MUTHERFUCKER. AND I CONSIDER IT A FAVOR TO THE U.S.A.
J2


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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 10:07 PM 1/15/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/15/2003
9:01:16 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You're right. My point was that
Israel is just following the U.S. lead.
With the annoying little difference that they're doing so on American
soil.
Both cases are wrong, but to allow a foriegn agency to break American
laws on American soil is beyond the pale.
Bill. 
You're a fucking hypocrite Shannon.
No country asks other countries to change their laws before
assassinating
their enemies. The US does it all the time, and so does everyone
else.
Do you feel violated bubby?
A.
I guess Israel should just stop going after the THOUSANDS of Arab
terrorists 
and their organizations in this country because it upsets you.
I'll put in a good word for you. I know for a fact that Sharon is VERY
concerned
about Prudy's and your feelings.
J2


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directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 09:58 PM 1/15/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector- 
I call that a violation of
international law.
You're right. My point was that Israel is just following the U.S.
lead.
 
JR 
Not true JR. ALL countries do it. Israel began to do it out in the
open
after the 1972 Munich massacre of it's athletes at the
olympics.
If our delightful Palestininian friends kill people in foreign countries,
the
solution is simple.
I love the outrage that Israel can do such a thing.
My my. What kind of people are these?
J2
 
- Original Message - 
From: William Shannon

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/15/2003 8:28:58 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Not that two wrongs make a right but what do you call the killing in Yemen with a rocket from the CIA's unmanned Predator? It was several months ago that Bush gave the CIA carte blanche to kill the "enemy" anywhere in the world.
I call that a violation of international law.
Bill. 
Ooooh a violation of international law. 
Bad. Bad Israeli.
J2




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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 08:32 PM 1/15/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/15/2003
6:27:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Israel is embarking upon a more
aggressive approach to the war on terror that will include staging
targeted killings in the United States and other friendly countries,
former Israeli intelligence officials told United Press
International.

Golly gee--anyone know the Hebrew version of "mi casa su
casa"?  Prudy

I do. " Kish meer in tuchas."
J2


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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] FULL METAL JACKET

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-



 Ya' Know..pork pecker, when we kikes take over the world a few
weeks from now
we will remember your kind words.
Jesus the Jew said..." Wash his filthy mouth out with
soap."  - Testacles, 6: 42.
See you soon,
Hymie

At 09:17 PM 1/15/03 -0800, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
Fuck you piece of KIKE SHIT. Ripping your throat out on a Vietnam
Battlefield is the true joy of every red blooded yankeedoodler. Hee
haw,
all must remember the alamo!!!
The POC'ster
(LEZ)
 *

**
On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, james gale wrote:
> Pure filth from obviously  a  mentally deficient
individual. Jim...
> - Original Message -
> From: "Party of Citizens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:07 AM
> Subject: RE: [Politics] [CTRL] Israel to kill in U.S., allied
nations
>
>
> >  *

**
> >
> > On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, William Shannon wrote:
> >
> > > In a message dated 1/15/2003 10:39:15 PM Central Standard
Time,
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >
> > > > How do you feel about Americans killing Americans on
foreign soil?
> >
> > It is truly a wondrous thing. Whatever it takes for a piece
of
> > Jew-Grovelling-Faggot-White-Shit like "Junior" to
prove his
> > texas-white-faggot supremacy and suck japhethite/and/or/edomite
kike
> > cock.
> >
> > FULL METAL JACKET
> >
> > POC
> > (LEZ)
> >
> > ===
> > LIST INFO
> > Questions or problems? contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] or
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ~To unsubscribe,
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> > ~To subscribe,
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> > ~Check out other Hot Topics lists at
> >
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> >

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Re: [CTRL] Burning whats?

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 09:36 AM 1/12/03 -0600, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
   Ramsey Clark is a damn perverted blood thirsty
jew
No Willey you crazy psychotic worm fucker. He's a Christian.
J2

Euphorian wrote:
>
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> WAR CRIMES
> A Report on United States War Crimes Against Iraq to the Commission
of Inquiry for
> the International War Crimes Tribunal
>
> by Ramsey Clark and Others

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Re: [CTRL] CANNIBALISM: Pygmies Being Killed and Eaten in Congo

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 09:38 AM 1/12/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
> That was a Mossad false flag operation. The " Israeli"
dressed
>up as black Africans and killed and ate the Italians because
the
>Italians were pro-Palestinian. I can't believe you don't know
this!
>You are usually so attuned to Israeli  atrocities.Tsk,
tsk.
> J2
Yes this is true. However you leave out the most important part
of this scandal as reported in the Jerusalum Post -
Israel's Chief Rabbi was paid thousands under the table to
declare the meat Kosher.
flw
THIS IS A VICIOUS ANTI-SEMITIC LIE being perpetrated by vicious
anti-semitic
anti-semites!!!
Pygmie was ALWAYS kosher if taken in small amounts.
BASTARDS.
J2

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Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 01:50 PM 1/10/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector- 
Pru while I think the Israelis are way overboard, and too far into this
right hawkish bad dream right now they at least attempt  have
targeted attacks
When you blow yourself up in a bus station that is indiscriminate
killing.

on 01/10/03 1:45 PM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


-Caveat Lector- In a message
dated 1/9/2003 12:05:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

Because it kills people indiscriminately.

Too bad it doesn't fit your stereotype eh?




What's wrong with that?  The Israeli kill Palestinians
indiscriminately.  Prudy

Are you really this stupid?
The Israeli military are the best in the world at discriminate urban
warfare. The US and other
countries send their military and police to LEARN HOW TO CONTROL A
VIOLENT
POPULATION AND KEEP CIVILIAN CASUALTIES LOW. The Israelis do it well.

The Israelis could rid themselves of the entire Palestinian population
anywhere on earth.
But fortunately for the Palestinians, they are dealing with Jews and not
Arabs or Europeans.
Otherwise there would be NO Palestinian problem at all.
J2





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Re: [CTRL] CANNIBALISM: Pygmies Being Killed and Eaten in Congo

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 06:03 PM 1/10/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/9/2003
11:57:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The UN had sent six officials to
investigate the accusation as well as other
>human rights abuses, he said.

And they had better be careful.  Remember the incident in which the
fourteen Italians were found butchered and for sale in some local meat
markets (also in the Congo I believe).  That was a few years back
and not widely broadcast, but it really happened. 
Prudy 
That was a Mossad false flag operation. The " Israeli" dressed
up as black Africans and killed and ate
the Italians because the Italians were pro-Palestinian.
I can't believe you don't know this! You are usually so attuned to
Israeli atrocities.
Tsk, tsk.
J2


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Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 09:53 PM 1/8/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector- 
The main point of the fence is not to protect 'Israel' but to 
expand and enhance the colonial Zionista settlement outposts.
flw
 
If that were true, the fence would be farther east.
Don't you get tired of being wrong?
J2

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Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 12:26 PM 1/8/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector- on 01/08/03 11:33
AM, Prudy L at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



There will never be a Palestinian state, but if such a thing were to
happen, I think the borders would be remarkably friendly.  




Eventually I agree economics will always win out

If that were true, Oslo would have been successful. Obviously this is one
of the rare places
where economics is a secondary consideration.

over ideology in the
long run. 
This is NOT about ideology on either side.

But initially there
will be a great deal of distrust I fear
There won't be a Palestinian  state on the West Bank.
J2


Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
   
William of Occam

NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line:
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Om 

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Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 11:33 AM 1/8/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/8/2003
10:09:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
don’t love the fence idea, but it
is not a prison fence  - it is a border. If and when there is a
Palestinian state, there will be a border between the countries, no? And
it WILL be a heavily defended border - , wire and all, I am sure both
sides will insist on that, no?

There are already many, many "borders" that touch the lives of
the Palestinians.  
Yeah life is tough.
There
will never be a Palestinian state, 
There is a Palestinian state. It's called Jordan.
but
if such a thing were to happen, I think the borders would be remarkably
friendly.  Prudy

Could you possibly be MORE unrealistic?
J2



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Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 09:09 AM 1/8/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/8/2003
8:42:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PLEASE stop whining. Just stop
paying your taxes, and you will solve the problem.
Oh no, I love contributing to your causes.  Walls and razor
wire--yum.  Why no mine fields? 
Prudy 
Because it kills people indiscriminately.
Too bad it doesn't fit your stereotype eh?
J2


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Re: [CTRL] There is No Evolution Here - 2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-



Whacky Willie is back..
I thought we got rid of this asshole> What's up Kris?

Hey Willie I have some bad news for you. Evolution is not a theory any
more. It's an observable
fact. 
The Bible is mostly mythological fiction.
Also the Jews will succeed in taking over the universe, and then YOU will
be in deep shit.
Have a nice day,
Joshua2
At 02:51 AM 1/8/03 -0600, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
    W.W. Prescott in his book,
"The Spade and the Bible" says,
    "Not a ruined city has
been opened up that has given any comfort to unbelieving critics or
evolutionists. Every find of archaeologists in the Bible lands has gone
on to confirm and confound its enemies."
    Life centered around the
temple. The temple towers of Babylonia were of the same design, a series
of vast, almost square platforms, with stairways leading up. The shrine
for the god was on the top.
    Th ziggurats at Ur had three
to eight platforms. The shrine at the top was in blue glazed brick with a
golden metal roof. The Babylonian word ziggarat means a pinnacle on top
of a mountain. The theory is that the ancient conquerors of these plains,
were mountaineers who, either from homesickness or from religious
conservatism or both, wished to worship their god on the high places as
they had always done. In Chaldea they had to make the high places with
their own hands. The account of the building the tower of Babel is the
record of such an event.
    In Genesis 11:2-3 we
read;
    "And it came to pass, as
they journeyed from the east, that they said one to another, God to, let
us make brick and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and
asphalt had they for mortar. And they said, Go to, let us build a city
and a tower whose top may reach into heaven."
    These temples were not only
places of worship. Around their courts were store houses for the tithes
and offerings brought in by the faithful worshipers, or paid as rent by
tenants. There were living quarters for the priests and the temple
servants. There were workshops and factories where the men and women,
attached to the temple were employed, spinning and weaving into cloth the
wool which the farmers brought. There was also casting and hammering into
art objects the copper and silver paid as tithes by the merchants of the
city.
    Exhaustive accounts were kept
of what was received and what was disbursed. Immense cattle yards were
kept where the live stock, given to the temple, were cared for. Contracts
were found setting forth their responsibilities and regulating their
profits, documents referring to granaries, freight boats, etc.
    The temple stood in relation
to the people as the state does in modern times and the records here are
of administration. The records show an efficient and well organized
community. Each person had a cylinder seal, which was rolled over the wet
clay and used in place of a signature. These seals are very small, some
only 5/8ths of an inch long. It took great skill and very tiny tools to
carve these. Various semi precious stones were used. One of gold was
found in the tomb of a queen.
    About 3750 B.C., the art of
the seal reached perhaps its highest expression. They carved figures
whose physical characteristics were emphasized realistically. At the
center of the composition there was a panel containing an inscription.
One inscription shows a bearded hero watering buffalo from a vase out of
which flowed two streams, then it shows water and a rock border at the
bottom. The inscription names Ibnisharrum as the owner of the seal and
dedicates it to Shargalisharri, king of Akkad. He was a grandson of
Sargon, or Cain as we know him. This whole scene was on a cylinder seal
less than an inch long and perhaps the size of ones little finger. No
modern jewel engraver could do better.
    Because it is difficult to
imagine life other than in terms of that which they knew, they assumed
that man's occupations and needs hereafter would be similar to what they
have been in the past, that the next world is a continuation of this
world. Whatever a man used in this lifetime he will use after death. The
woman took her spindle, needle, mirror and her cosmetics. The carpenter
took his saw and chisels, the soldier his weapons of war. The king must
be provided with a goodly sample of his pomp on earth. It is not
surprising then that the archaeologists derives most of his material from
the cemeteries of the old world.
    What he finds illustrates not
only their beliefs and burial customs, but also their life style. From
the royal tombs at Ur, dating about 3000 B.C., come some very beautiful
things. The famous gold dagger of Ur, a weapon whose blade is gold, its
hilt of lapis lazuli decorated with gold studs, and it sheath of gold
filigree work. With it was another object scarcely less remarkable. It
was a cone shaped container of gold, ornamented with a spiral pattern and
containing a set of little toilet instru

Re: [CTRL] Israelis To Confine Arabs to Ghetto

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 01:02 PM 1/7/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 12/20/2002
9:41:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A light rain brings some of the
farmers of Qalqiliya out to look at their
fields, which should be busy with orange and lemon pickers. But the
only
sign of activity is a giant Israeli digger carving out a trench wide
enough
to drive a car along.
The digger works amid a scene of devastation: an 80-yard-wide area
stripped
of its orchards and greenhouses that will shortly become the
perimeter
fence of what is effectively a big open-air prison enclosing a town
of
40,000.

I have always said that anti-Jew racism makes one stupid.. I would add
that it is also proportional.
The more anti Semitic one is, the stupider one becomes.
To prove my point, one only has to wish to demonize the Israelis for
building a barrier to protect
themselves from their enemies. If they were Germans, Australians,
Canadians, New Zealanders,
Dutch, Belgians, or Americans they would have exterminated the
Palestinians by now. But instead,
they are building a fence.
The fence is a single long fence extending from point A to point B. Now
if you weren't such fucking 
racist jerks, looking to demonize the Jews, it would be obvious to you
that the last paragraph is
a piece of utterly stupid propaganda designed for morons like
you.

>>The digger works amid a
scene of devastation: an 80-yard-wide area stripped
of its orchards and greenhouses that will shortly become the
perimeter
fence of what is effectively a big open-air prison enclosing a town
of
40,000.<<
A border fence is a single fence. It is not one that surrounds the
town of  Qalqiliya. It
separates
Israel from the Arab occupied territories of the West Bank of the
Jordan. A single fence ( as opposed
to a four sided fence,) does
NOT...">a big open-air
prison enclosing a town of 40,000.< " make.
This is TYPICAL of inept Palestinians propaganda which is only
effective on Arabs and people like
you. 

Ah
yes, the tranquil picture of Israeli democracy.  Makes one yearn to
send even more of our tax dollars to Israel.  
Prudy
PLEASE stop whining. Just stop paying your taxes, and you will solve the
problem.
Joshua2



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Re: [CTRL] Reinstate the Draft

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 11:31 AM 1/6/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
The American people have to decide whether they want to have
an Empire with a draft, police state, and a non productive economy
run by a wealthy few OR a free productive country with no draft
and general prosperity.
It is not possible to have both.
flw
I'm glad we can agree on something here.
Unfortunately, because we don't have democracy here, 
it's not up to us if we want or don't want Empire.
Empire it is and empire it will be. Our job is to create wealth through
labor for the 
the Rich to pay for mercenary armies to protect their investments and
steal
other people's natural resources.
Then we can get old. Get sick. And die.
Capirtalism is a beautiful thing.
J2

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Re: [CTRL] It's not the oil, stupid, it's the power

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 11:22 AM 1/4/03 -0800, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector- 
why don't you smoke a joint already 
Which is apropos of what? 
Instaed of being a smart ass ( except for the smart part ) why don't you
just admit
that you are shallow, ignorant and incapable of logical thought. THAT
would be 
much more accurate than your stance on oil and power.
It's obvious that you are incapable of thoughts deeper than the reach of
your pecker.
Leave it alone for a while and pay attention.
1) All nations seek power. The stronger a country is militarily, the more
power it wants
 because it uses its power to steal other, weaker
countiess' resources. In Central Asia it's oil.
In Afghanistan it's a land bridge for a pipeline to move that
oil.
Now pay attention here sonny. IT'S ALL ABOUT OIL. We use power to control
other
people's resources because the Corporate /Military establishment makes
money from it.
MONEY = POWER more than OIL = POWER. OIL = MONEY = POWER. The 
power derived from oil is INDIRECT POWER. It is indirect because modern
economies are
fueled by oil and gas. The elites who control the _ price and production_
of oil and gas, have
POWER over that economy if they choose to play that card. 
Access to Caspian oil, aside from being profitable for the oil
corporations, reduces the
need to be dependent on the Arabs who hate the West.
This is why we are going to war with Iraq. To take the option away from
the Saudis and
OPEC.

if oil didn't lead to
power no one would seek it so strongly 
GENIUS!

that means, by
definition, it is the POWER STUPID 
No you moron. You still don't get it. Oil has its own intrinsic value.
The power derived
from controlling oil is OPTIONAL. The value of the oil is independent of
the ability to
use it as means to power.
I'll bet your one of those idiots who think the statement "
Knowledge is power." has 
some real meaning. It doesn't because it's not true. There is a
connection between 
knowledge and power, but having knowledge doesn't mean you have power,
and having
power doesn't mean you have knowledge. That is obvious if you take our
fearless leader
as an example.
If you want to learn about " power " see if you can find
Nurev's " Understanding The
New World Order" by Joshua2. It's probably in CTRL's
archives.
J2

 Nurev Ind
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 


-Caveat Lector- At 10:31 AM 1/3/03 -0800, you wrote:

-Caveat Lector- 

Statecraft:
It's
NOT the oil, Stupid, it's the power

Posted by: souljah on Jan 03, 2003 - 10:08 AM

It IS the oil STUPID! It's all about oil because control of oil IS
POWER! STUPID!


~~

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] It's not the oil, stupid, it's the power

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 10:31 AM 1/3/03 -0800, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector- 
Statecraft:
It's
NOT the oil, Stupid, it's the power
Posted by: souljah on Jan 03, 2003 - 10:08 AM
It IS the oil STUPID! It's all about oil because control of oil IS POWER!
STUPID!
Don't bet all your money on Emporer's Clothes. They made MANY mistakes
about 911.
Joshua2

According to the
Petroleum Economist of February 11, 2002, it was the Taliban which tried
to get a trans-Afghan pipeline, and it was the U.S. and Unocal which
jinxed the project.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?P216133F2

~~
Weather Modification
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z201661F2
Transhumanism: The New Master Race?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R3E0231F2
Rocket Fuel Toxic Found in Lettuce
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V195213F2

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] US Firms Sold ICBM Technology to China

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 10:11 AM 1/1/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
Who wants to bet this 'probe' will go nowhere?
flw
It has already gone nowhere. This story is the basis for the "
Lewinsky/Clinton " scandal, and its
aftermath, the attempt to remove Clinton from office.
Ellements on the Right could not tolerate business as usual if it meant
selling dangerous weapons to
the Communists in China. The selling of weapons is better than OK
usually, but these systems allowed China to reach US shores with missiles
for the VERY FIRST TIME.
These were in fact acts of treason perpetrated by the usual suspects...
Capitalist Corporations, and
their henchmen the bribed politicians.
Today we are nuclear targets on the west coast.
Joshua2

washingtonpost.com
Firms Accused of Giving Space Technology to China
State Department Charges That U.S. Companies Made Illegal
Transfers
By John Mintz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 1, 2003; Page A07
The State Department has charged that two of the country's largest
aerospace companies, Hughes Electronics Corp. and Boeing Satellite
Systems
Inc., illegally transferred sensitive U.S. space technology to China in
the
1990s that could have helped Beijing's military develop
intercontinental
missiles.
If a federal administrative judge and, later, a top State 
Department
official agree with the allegations in a 32-page State Department
"charging
letter" filed without public notice last Thursday, the companies
could be
fined as much as $60 million and barred for three years from 
selling
controlled technologies overseas, a penalty that could particularly
hurt
Boeing.
The companies have strenuously denied wrongdoing in the case, which
began
with a series of failed space launches in China starting in 1995.
Hughes
officials are alleged to have given Chinese experts detailed
information
about rocketry to help China's space program figure out why its
rockets
were failing soon after launch.
The Hughes Electronics space launch division, which committed the
supposed
improprieties, was purchased by Boeing in 2000 for $3.7 billion. The
two
corporate bodies charged by the State Department last week are the
Hughes
parent company and the division of Boeing that gobbled up the former
Hughes
space launch unit.
This type of administrative charge is extraordinarily rare, U.S.
officials
said. The filing reflects officials' anger that the two firms have
aggressively battled the charges and resisted admitting what they did
in
China was wrong, they added.
"We don't believe we've done anything wrong," said Hughes
Electronics
spokesman Robert Marsocci. "We're in negotiations with the
State
Department, and we'll be reviewing our options."
A Boeing spokesman, Dan Beck, said the company would not
comment.
The Justice Department spent years on a criminal investigation of
those
companies and a third, Loral Space & Communications Ltd., involved
in
similar activity in China. But several months ago, federal
prosecutors
informed the firms that they would not file criminal charges.
Last January, Loral agreed to pay a $14 million fine and to spend 
$6
million on internal reforms to stop overseas technology transfers.
The
government did not file the kind of administrative charges against
Loral
that it filed last week against Hughes and Boeing.
The charging document, signed by William J. Lowell, director of the
State
Department's office of defense trade controls, said Hughes and
Boeing
committed 123 violations of the Arms Export Control Act and the
International Traffic in Arms Regulations.
Government officials praised Loral for facing up to its past
improprieties
and imposing corporate guidelines to prevent a recurrence. 
Officials
offered no such praise for Boeing and Hughes.

"The department has had several rounds of discussion with Hughes and
Boeing
to explore a resolution similar to the one with Loral," said
State
Department spokesman Jay Greer. "We can note that unlike Loral,
Hughes and
Boeing have both failed to recognize the seriousness of the violations
and
have been unprepared to take steps to resolve the matter, or to ensure
no
recurrence of violations in the future."
Hughes and Boeing for years have insisted the State Department is wrong
to
declare it improper for them to have had discussions with Chinese
officials
about the space launch failures. The firms point out that during 
the
mid-1990s, their operations in China were covered by Commerce
Department
regulations that were more lax and, the companies say, allowed for
some
give and take with Beijing officials. The State Department says that
the
more stringent export control laws still were in force, and that 
the
companies broke them.
After the explosion of the space shuttle Challenger in 1986,
President
Ronald Reagan decided in 1988 that U.S. space companies should be
allowed
to launch their satellites aboard China's Long March rockets to
accommodate
the fast-growing American telecommunications industry.
But the U.S. firms were barred from giv

Re: [CTRL] Liberating America From Israel

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 04:49 PM 1/1/03 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 1/1/2003
3:32:13 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Jews will do what THEY deem
necessary without advice from the likes of you.
But with HER money...
Not true. But even if it were, she AND YOU can stop paying taxes.
I personally don't like MY tax money going to support Arab
Dictatorships.
Joshua2


www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Liberating America From Israel

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 07:17 PM 12/29/02 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 12/29/2002 3:15:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Why is Israel the only country ever asked to return land it
> wins?
Many other countries have returned land they won.  Some have even
created new countries with the land they won but did not keep--Britain
which took Kuwait from Iraq and then gave it independence with an
appointed leadership.  
Yes, yes. Prudy. 
They created a puppet state instead of direct control.
The United States took
Okinawa during WWII, and even though Okinawa should have been given
independence, gave it back to Japan which had conquered it
previously.  
Yes, yes Prudy. They gave it back to Japan because they controlled Japan
militarily.
Israel could be
magnanimous and give land to the Palestinians without breaking a
planetary precedent, but I can assure you that Israel will never do
that.  
I can assure you of that as well. But not because they are rapacious.
It's a question of security.
None of your idiotic examples are valid. None of the above had lands
adjacent to their border.
These were all far away.
For Israel to intentionally create an enemy state on its border where it
is only 9 miles wide is
insane. 
I think the word
"rapacious" describes Israel rather well. 
Prudy
Let's see you start a movement to give back the Southwest America stole
from Mexico thru
war.
Let's see you start a movement to return Hawaii to its natives who STILL
WANT IT BACK,
before you stick your hypocritical nose into other people's survival
issues you goddamned phony hypocrite.
Clean up your own backyard first.
The Jews will do what THEY deem necessary without advice from the likes
of you.
J2


www.ctrl.org
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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Israeli Soldier Gets 65 Days for Murdering 95 Yr Old Grandmother

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 01:10 PM 12/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
> Not many points for that one. Now if she were an armed, one
eyed,
pregnant,
> dynamite toting, glorious freedom fighter, THAT would be
points.
One thing that gets me sick is someone who is a monovisualphobist
profiler.
flw
I guess we don't see eye to eye on that one either eh?
J2

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Israeli Soldier Gets 65 Days for Murdering 95 Yr Old Grandmother

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 11:49 AM 12/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 12/25/2002 10:09:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> An Israel Defense Forces soldier who killed a 95-year-old
Palestinian woman
> earlier this month has been sentenced to 65 days in
> military prison.
But does he get to keep the points? 
Prudy
Not many points for that one. Now if she were an armed, one eyed,
pregnant, dynamite toting,
glorious freedom fighter, THAT would be points.
J2


www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Are We Going to War for Oil?

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-


At 10:19 AM 12/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
UM --- in central asia its more about natural gas than oil,
no?
It is NOT to be taken as a FACT that ...
> It's now been discovered that what was once
thought to be an oil bonanza in
> Central Asia—with more oil than exists in the Middle East—is
actually a bust.
This is really unclear, as is
the notion that we have peaked with oil. It could be true
but there are differing opinions about it. 
I would suggest keeping an open mind until more is known.

on 12/15/02
2:23 AM, Steve Wingate at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Are We Going to War for Oil?
>
> 11-Dec-2002
>
> It's now been discovered that what was once thought to be an oil
bonanza in
> Central Asia—with more oil than exists in the Middle East—is
actually a bust.
> And despite government support of hydrogen fuel cells, research
indicates
> that these will not be a viable reality in the near future, meaning
we'll
> continue to depend on Middle Eastern oil. At the same time, there's
been a
> dramatic shift in U.S. foreign policy toward Iraq and Saudi
Arabia—and these
> things may be connected.
>
> Estimates of oil reserves in the Caspian Sea have gone from 200
billion
> barrels to around 20 billion barrels. ExxonMobil is closing one of
its
> Caspian offshore projects due to the poor results of exploratory
drilling,
> and ChevronTexaco is withdrawing as well. Also, the Tengiz field in
Central
> Asia is very expensive to pump and deliver to market and the oil has
a high
> sulfur content (as much as 16 percent). Disposal of this waste
sulfur will be
> a major problem.
>
> There has been very little talk lately about the trans- Afghanistan
pipeline,
> probably due to continuing instability in the country.

Correct. The war in Afghanistan has failed in every aspect but getting
rid of the Taliban.
Today, Afghanistan is back where it started under the control of brutal
Warlords.

One planned
pipeline
> which is also being rethought is the 1,090-mile long Baku-Ceyhan
pipeline,
> which will cost about $2.9 billion and will link an existing
pipeline from
> Azerbaijan to the Turkish Mediterranean Port of Ceyhan, crossing
high
> mountains and territory occupied by the Kurds, who may be aligned
with
> Islamic terrorists. Critics question whether there are enough oil
reserves in
> the Caspian Sea to support the pipeline, so U.S. interest in it may
really be
> an effort to destabilize
OPEC.
De stabilizing OPEC appears to be on the agenda in the Gulf as well as in
Venezuela
and Africa.
>
> The U.S. recently published a document promoting hydrogen fuels, but
critics
> feel this is mostly a public relations ploy, because there are
serious
> problems to overcome before we can make the transition to hydrogen
fuel
> cells. Because hydrogen is the simplest element, it will leak from
any
> container, no mater how well insulated, so some of the hydrogen will
always
> evaporate. Hydrogen gas is also very reactive, and when it comes
into contact
> with metal surfaces it decomposes into hydrogen atoms, which are so
small
> they can penetrate metal and make it brittle.
>
> But the biggest problem is the size of the fuel tanks that would be
needed.
> 62,000 gallons of hydrogen gas is necessary to replace the energy
capacity of
> 20 gallons of gasoline. So far, hydrogen-powered cars have run on
compressed
> hydrogen, but a compressed hydrogen fuel tank can develop pressure
leaks
> through accidents or normal wear, which could cause it to
explode.
>
>
> If the hydrogen is liquefied, 4 four times the volume is needed to
produce
> the energy of a gallon of gasoline, so a 60 gallon tank would be
needed to
> replace a 15-gallon gas tank. Liquid hydrogen is also hard to store,
because
> it’s cold enough to freeze air. In test vehicles, accidents have
occurred
> from pressure build-ups in plugged valves. Beyond this, there’s the
high cost
> of liquefying the hydrogen and refrigerating it so that it remains
in a
> liquid state.
>
> Hydrogen does not freely occur in nature in useful quantities, so it
must be
> split from molecules of methane from either fossil fuels or water.
The water
> process creates carbon monoxide as a byproduct, and the steam that’s
used is
> usually made from fossil fuels, so we can’t escape the production
of
> greenhouse gases—we simply transfer this pollution to hydrogen
production
> plants.
>
> The basic problem with hydrogen fuel cells is the second law 
of
> thermodynamics, meaning we’ll always have to use more energy
creating the
> hydrogen than we’ll get from using that hydrogen.
>
> But a belief in hydrogen cell technology will help stock prices
overcome the
> bad news about Caspian oil reserves. Also, the idea that we are
working on a
> transition from fossil fuels may destabilize OPEC, making it easier
to deal
> with Arab oil states.
>
> The government stresses the danger of Saddam’s nuclear and
biological
> weapons, but does not acknowledge that part of our reason for
i

Re: [CTRL] History of Palestine - Wikipedia -j2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Euphorian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:08 AM
Subject: [CTRL] History of Palestine - Wikipedia


Quite a good history. Pretty darn accurate. Some minor issues.

Calling the place Palestine is a problem. First and most important,
is that there is no such place. Period.

That land in that region was called Palestine for relatively brief periods
in history.
It's like calling a woman who was married several times by the name of her
first
husband even though she had remarried. It's simply a political act in favor
of the
Arab point of view to call Israel, the West Bank, or Jordan, Palestine.

The title of the piece > History of Palestine < is unhistorical for the same
reason.
This is borne out by the very history it contains. Calling the land
Palestine BEFORE
THE ROMAN DEFEAT OF JUDEA, is like calling this land mass the United States
of
America before 1776.

It simply was something else and demonstrates a false chauvinism.

Joshua2

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
>
> >>>Many hot linques at site<<<
>
>
> History of Palestine
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
>
> See Also: Palestine, History of Levant, History of ancient Israel and
Judah, History of Israel
>
> Historical overview
>
> The term Palestine originates with the Philistines, who inhabited the
southern coast of the
> region in biblical times. It went into disuse with the disappearance of
the Philistines c.1000
> B.C., but was reintroduced by the Romans following the Second Jewish
Revolt ("Great
> Revolt") of Bar Kochba of 132-135 A.D in the province of Judea.
Historically, there was a
> clear distinction between Philistine and Judean territories, however, the
Romans adopted
> the name for the province in an effort to erase any memories of the Judean
rebels they
> defeated: similarly, Jerusalem, Palestine's historic capital, was renamed
Aelia Capitolina.
>
> For nineteen hundred years since that time, the region was subject to
successive waves of
> invaders, each of which left some mark on its people and landscape. This
can be attributed
> to Palestine's strategic location at the crossroads of Asia, Africa, and
Europe, and its unique
> religious status as a Holy Land" to the three great monotheistic
religions: Judaism,
> Christianity, and Islam.
>
> In 1917, the British captured the region from the Ottoman Empire and
called it Palestine,
> after the longstanding Roman name for the area. This came at a time of
renewed interest
> in the country among the European powers, Arab nationalists, and Jewish
Zionists, who
> sought to reestablish their ancient homeland there. Competition between
the latter two
> groups came to a head immediately after World War II, when Zionist claims
gained greater
> urgency after the murder of almost six million Jews in the Holocaust. The
Zionists
> demanded an independent homeland to absorb the Jewish refugees from
Europe; the local
> Arab population, by now called Palestinians, argued that they played no
role in the
> Holocaust, so the refugee problem should not be resolved at their expense.
>
> On November 29, 1947, the United Nations voted to partition what remained
of the British
> Mandate of Palestine into two states: one Jewish, and one Arab. The
proposal was rejected
> by the Palestinian Arabs and the surrounding Arab states but accepted by
the Jews. Less
> than five months later, the Jewish population declared its independence as
the state of
> Israel, and the first of a series of wars rocked the region. Large numbers
of Palestinian
> Arabs fled, while others were expelled from their homes during the
fighting in what is
> called in Arabic the Naqba, or "Tragedy." Israel managed to maintain its
independence and
> even expand its borders, but a new refugee problem, this one of
Palestinian Arabs, was
> created.
>
> What remained of the territories allotted to the Arab state in Palestine
was occupied by
> Jordan (the West Bank) and Egypt (the Gaza Strip) from 1948 to 1967,

Not " occupied. Annexed.

> when Israel
> occupied those areas in the Six Day War.

This view is an example of Arab propaganda. Israel didn't just " occupy "
the West Bank of
Jordan, It was attacked by Jordan and several other Arab armies. It
successfully defended
itself, and defeated Jordan's military forces and drove them back over the
Jordan River.
This left the West Bank under the control of Israel. ISRAEL DIDN'T WANT
IT!!! Israel offered
it back to King Hussein who didn't want it either anymore because he didn't
want to deal
with the Palestinian problem as it played out in his country.

This left Israel in the position of administering a conquered territory with
an ENEMY POPULATION.
Every other country in the world which won land in a war, had the victor's
option of keeping
it or not. The UN decided that the Israelis did not have that same option.
This was a political
decision played out by the Arabs,

Re: [CTRL] About the other 68%

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Euphorian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 2:40 PM
Subject: [CTRL] About the other 68%


Except for a few points, this is a pretty accurate history.

Joshua2

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> http://www.accessv.com/~yehuda/Essay1.html
>
> IB Diploma Requirement: Extended Essay - History
>
> Professor: David H. Layton,Myers Park High School, Charlotte North
Carolina
>
> Due Date: 15 October 1997
>
> The Palestinian Powder-Keg: The Negative Impact of Great Britain on
Zionist Reform
> Movements in Palestine, 1917-1948
>
> Since the beginning of the Common Era, the Jewish people have been without
a peaceful
> national homeland. The Roman general Titus sacked the Temple of Jerusalem
and
> conquered the state of Judea in 70 C.E.. As a result, the Jewish people
were thrown into
> perpetual exile from their promised homeland during a period now known as
the Diaspora.
> This period began to come to an end on 2 November 1917. A declaration
contained in a
> letter by Britain's Minister of Foreign Affairs, A.J. Balfour, to the
representative of Hibbat
> Tziyyon (Lovers of Zion), Baron Edmund de Rothschild, which officially
committed the United
> Kingdom to the concept of a free Jewish state. It is a common
misperception, however that
> the British 'provided', rather heroically, the Jewish state with their
independence. On the
> contrary, British involvement tended to hinder Jewish independence
movements. The initial
> intent of the British involvement was to secure a foothold in the Middle
East that would be
> favorable to British concerns. This intervention contributed greatly to
the already building
> resentment and distrust of Western civilization, and provided further
inspiration for the
> growing movement of Pan-Arabism. The intervention of the United Kingdom
has done little
> to benefit the creation of Israel, as the Jews were forced to accomplish
this with support
> from the United States and the Soviet Union; rather it has fueled a
contempt for all of
> Western civilization which is still at the root of the Israeli-
Palestinian conflict today.
>
> The Zionist movement was relatively new to the Middle Eastern theatre.
Although
> historically there has been an indigenous population of Jews in Palestine,
Jewish
> immigration did not begin until the 1870s. At this time, many Jews from
Eastern Europe and
> Russia journeyed to Palestine in order to create a new Jewish state on the
foundations of
> the ancient one (Ben-Gurion 18). Jews continued to immigrate to Israel,
but remained a
> relative minority. However, the Zionists were able to effectively rally
behind the cause of the
> Jewish national homeland to create one voice; they maintained a great
propaganda
> machine through the World press as well as in day- to-day information
(Antonius 38).
> Through these means, the Zionists wished to create worldwide sympathy for
their cause.
> Although there was a Jewish presence within Palestine, it was far from
significant enough
> to cause any sort of revolution. Outside support, such as that from the
Jews of other
> nations, would be necessary to bolster the Zionist's efforts.
>
> Before the establishment of Israel in 1948, the Jewish population in
Palestine was a vast
> minority. In 1931, Jews made up only 14 % of the country's demographics;
by 1948, Jews
> still could only claim 32% of the nation's population (Said 55). This
discrepancy in the
> national population would contribute to the conflict between the two
groups. Although far
> outnumbered, the United Kingdom stated their desire to create a homeland
for the Jews.
> Britain had taken control over the area through an agreement with the
French signed in
> February 1916. This agreement, known officially as the Asia Minor
agreement but often
> referred to as the Sykes- Picot Agreement, divided up the territories of
the soon-to-be
> fallen Ottoman Empire between the French and the British. Palestine began
to take on a
> strategic importance from a military standpoint due to its proximity to
the Suez Canal. Since
> Britain is an island nation, she relies heavily on her naval supremacy.
This relies on control
> of a primary world waterway. Although the British have maintained a
protectorate in Egypt
> since 1857, proximity in the north could only be viewed as positive in the
case of an
> invasion. British Prime Minister David-Lloyd George intended on making
sure Palestine
> remained in British hands (Metz 34).
>
> However, Zionist movements in Palestine were increasing their effect on
Britain's foreign
> policy. Due to the ongoing World War, Lloyd George and Balfour feared that
if Britain did not
> favor an independent Jewish state that Germany may, therefore influencing
the support of
> Jews throughout Russia and the United States. These Jews had much clout,
and it was the
> opinion of the Ministry of Foreign affairs that if they won Jewish support
they could keep
> Russia in the wa

Re: [CTRL] The Question: "Who's not identical ...

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Euphorian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The Question: "Who's not identical ...


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> 11/26/02 10:58:51 AM, Nurev Ind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >-Caveat Lector-
>
> >> How can any Jew, Moslem or even Christian try to claim that Jews have a
> >> completely separate gene pool from  that of  Moslems.
> >
> >Your delineation's are fuzzy here Prudy. You mixing apples and oranges.
Jews/
> >Arabs are ETHNIC delineation's. Moslems are people who are followers of
> >Islam.  John Walker Lind is a Moslem. He and any Jew DO have a completely
separate
> >gene pool.
>
> How do you know this?

Because the genetic studies were made across a wide spectrum of ethnicities.
They discovered that even though Jews lived in Europe for over 2000 years,
very
little intermarriage went on between them and their neighbors. Since John is
a
European ethnically, the statement is valid.


> Taleban John is a poor choice to begin with because he acquired
> the religion.  (Talk about mixing apples and artichokes!)

I guess selective reading is like selective hearing eh? That's exactly what
I said to correct
Prudy's misstatement. > >> How can any Jew, Moslem or even Christian try to
claim that Jews have a
> >> completely separate gene pool from  that of  Moslems.


> I took it to mean that the
> comparison was among those who ewere indigenous and therefore most likely
to be
> related.

That's right.

> But the point remains that unless every populations' pools are tested,
there's no
> way for anyone to determine and ascertain this.  Unless -- of course --
the information is
> channelled.

No such thing as channeled. And yes, they did do a very broad spectrum of
humanity.

> >They migrated to the Turkish province which is now Israel, Jordan, Syria,
and
> >Lebanon, at the same time that the European Jews began their migrations
from Europe.
>
> What?  Does everyone need to rub their eyes here?  Around the middle of
the 19th century,
> the trend toward reestablishing a "Zionist" homeland came into vogue.

It wasn't a " vogue " dude. It was a necessity. You see Jews have this
strange thing about
wanting to survive.

> The great thrust
> came with Tommy Herzl's

That's Theodore or Teddy.

> little book and his expanded hobby known as "Zionism" that was
> based, of course, on his impressions that so long as some people can't
seem to get along
> with the Europeans, they may as well go somewhere else.

Yeah that must be it.

> Disapora for ever.  I had as
> much trouble with that book as I did with *Mein Kampf* (which espoused the
same aims,
> ridding Europe of some religious groups), neither of which I finished (so
I can't decide
> which is the more vile).

Who cares?
Since you are not Jewish, your opinion about " our thing " is totally
irrelevant.

(Excuse me while I insert some data here.)
>
> http://www.cet.edu/earthinfo/meast/israel/IPtopic2.html
> """The demographics of Palestine began to change dramatically in the
1920?s and 1930?s as
> there was increased immigration of European Jews into the mandate. This
immigration was
> the result of several factors, most notably being the rise of Zionist
ideology and the
> worsening political condition for Jews in such states as Germany.

This is correct.

> Zionism (or Jewish
> nationalism) is a combination of religious faith and pragmatic politics.

This is totally wrong. Zionism was primarily socialist, and there was also a
right wing faction.
But it had nothing to do with the religious motivation.

> The Jewish religion
> and culture are permeated with the symbols of the connection of the Jewish
people to the
> land of Israel. The Jews consider themselves a displaced people living in
exile after having
> been dispersed around the world. The concept of the right of return is
central to the Jewish
> tradition.

This is true.

>
> """Politically, there was a fear that growing anti- Semitism in places
such as Russia/Soviet
> Union and Nazi Germany made it impossible for Jews to assimilate into the
political and
> economic structures of the Gentiles and therefore, there was a need to
create a Jewish
> homeland.

Actually it way predates the Nazis. Zionism grew exponentially with the
advent of the Nazis
in the thirties. But alas the allies of the Nazis, the Palestinian Arabs,
got their Saudi Arab budies
to pressure the Brits and Roosevelt to restrict Jewish immigration to
British Palestine
when they needed it most and when they wouldn't allow Jews to immigrate to
En

Re: [CTRL] The Question: "Who's not identical (and who has no claim to stake...

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Prudy L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The Question: "Who's not identical (and who has no claim
to stake...


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 11/25/2002 1:43:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > Jews and Palestinians in the Middle East share a very similar gene pool
and
> > must be
> > considered closely related and not genetically separate, the authors
state.
> > Rivalry between
> > the two races is therefore based 'in cultural and religious, but not in
> > genetic differences',
> > they conclude.
> >
>
>
> How can any Jew, Moslem or even Christian try to claim that Jews have a
> completely separate gene pool from  that of  Moslems.

Your delineations are fuzzy here Prudy. You mixing apples and oranges. Jews/
Arabs are ETHNIC delineations. Moslems are people who are followers of
Islam.
John Walker Lind is a Moslem. He and any Jew DO have a completely separate
gene pool.

> According to the Bible
> that I read and the Koran (I'm not sure just which Jewish holy book tells
the
> story), Abraham is the ancestor of both Jews and Moslems.

This is what is known in scientific terminology as " bubba meises."
Mythology.
It might be based on truth, but likely is not since the Bible was written
about fifteen
hundred years after Abraham, and the Koran, much later than that. The Koran
is
OVERTLY unhistorical. More so than the Christian Bible which was at least
based on
real historical characters.

> If Jews and
> Palestinians have no genetic connection, then the entire rationale of the
Old
> Testament is false,

You're a littele confused ol' girl. The above statement is a non-sequiter.
The relationship
between Jews and Palestinians has no bearing on the veracity of the Bible.
The Bible
could be entirely made up drivel and that would not prove anything as far as
genetic
makeup is concerned. The Jews and Arabs (NOT Palestinians) have lived in
close proximity
for so long that it would be remarkable if all through history they did not
conquer each
other at various times and intermarry. THIS is what's certain. Not the
various legends.
The " Palestinians " are a recently made up phenomenon. They are not a real
ethnic group.
They are Arabs. That's all. They are no more distinctive than the Arabs from
Syria. They
migrated to the Turkish provence which is now Israel, Jordan, Syria, and
Lebanon, at the
same time that the European Jews began their migrations from Europe.

The " Palesdtinians " are as new immigrants as are the Ashkenazis. That's
not to say that
there weren't people living there already. There were. They were Arab
landless peasants
mostly working for absentee Turkish and Arab landlords. There were many
small indiginous
groups in villages. Most, but not all were Arabs. AND, there was a
continuous Jewish
population who lived there in an unbroken line for 3000 years. This
population's size
varied.

The new bullshit being pushed by the Palestinians is that they are
decendants of the
Cananites. Thereby creating an historical line that goes further back than
the Jews.
The only problem with that is that the Cananites were NOT ARABS. The
Cananites
were Phoenecians who were Europeans. There is no genetic connection between
Cananites,
Jews, and especially Arabs who didn't really live in that part of the world.
They lived
mostly in the Arabian interior. Then they pushed out with the military
expansion of Islam.
[ ALL THE PLACES THE ARABS CLAIM OUTSIDE OF THE MECA/MEDINA REGION WERE
STOLEN FROM INDIGINOUS POPULATIONS BY FORCE AND THREAT OF DEATH. THAT
INCLUDES ISRAEL AND IT'S SURROUNDING AREAS. ]

There is an excellent site about Phoenecians on the web. Check it out and
get a clue.

> and all Israeli claim to the holy land is false as well,
> because the very story that gives them claim would be compromised.

When will you people ever get it right? It's not the STORY in the book that
gives
Jews the claim. It's the HISTORY that gives Jews the claim. The connection
does
NOT depend on the legends in the Bible.

> I
> realize that most folks do not consider the Bible to represent scientific
> fact, but since the Bible and science appear to agree with regard to this
> matter, what's the issue here?  Prudy

The issue is racism and Jew hatred. You should know that by now.

In any case consider this. Posession is 9/10ths of the law. It's not Bibles
and legends,
and idiotic claims by lying Arabs and racists like Hoffman and Shannon.
These are all
irrelevant in the end.

It's about possession AND THE STRENGTH TO KEEP YOUR POSSESSION. The lawyers
and
theologians can beat their gums about the rest.

That's all folks,
Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theo

Re: [CTRL] The Question: "Who's not identical (and who has no claim to stake...

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The Question: "Who's not identical (and who has no claim
to stake...


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2002 8:18:45 AM Central Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > How can any Jew, Moslem or even Christian try to claim that Jews have a
> > completely separate gene pool from  that of  Moslems.  According to the
> > Bible that I read and the Koran (I'm not sure just which Jewish holy
book
> > tells the story), Abraham is the ancestor of both Jews and Moslems.
>
> Most Israeli Jews are Ashkenazi (Khazar) and have nothing in common with
the
> Arabs. The Sephardics do and are treated like 2nd class citizens.
>
> Bill.
>

Most Israelis are Ashkenazis which has nothing to do with Khazars as Shanon
the
lying racist prick well knows.

There are several well known studies which demonstrate quite ironically that
ALL
Jews from different parts of the world, including the Black Jews of
Zimbabwe, are
strongly related to the Arabs who have lived in and around what is now
Israel.

The Israeli/Arab conflict is not about race. It's about religion and land.

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Cashill: Iraq downed TWA Flight 800

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Cashill: Iraq downed TWA Flight 800


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 11/19/2002 12:00:37 PM Central Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > The jury is in on TWA Flight 800, and the verdict is clear: There is
> > absolutely no
> > evidence of either a mechanical failure, or of a bomb planted in the
> > fuselage. Indeed, all
> > available evidence suggests the explosive event that destroyed the
> > ill-fated airliner in
> > 1996 was caused by a terrorist group called the Islamic Change Movement.
>
> Oh bullshit.
> Give me a break.
>
> Bill.

Can't fool you eh genius? You are way too smart to believe that Arab/
muslims
terrorists would EVER do anything bad with airplanes.

Gee, I wish I was as sharp a tool as you.

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Ark of Covenant

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Euphorian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 12:42 PM
Subject: [CTRL] Ark of Covenant


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021029-11-6334r
>
> Ark of Covenant reported to be in Ethiopia
>
> By Beth Potter
> From the Life & Mind Desk
> Published 10/29/2002 10:31 AM
>
> ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia, Oct. 29 (UPI) -- Remember Indiana Jones in "Raiders
of the Lost
> Ark"? It turns out the
> movie was probably wrong about where to search for the religious artifact.
The real Ark of
> the Covenant is actually believed to be in Axum, a small town in
> Ethiopia.

Actually believed to be. Is not the same as - exists in Axum.
This story is drivel if it suggests that this is the real Ark.

J2


>
> Written texts have it that the ark, the repository of the Ten Commandments
tablets that God
> gave to Moses, was taken to Ethiopia by Menelik, son of Solomon and the
Queen of Sheba
> around 1000 B.C., says Richard Pankhurst, a British scholar who has lived
in Ethiopia more
> than half of his 60-odd years. It's guarded by an "ecclesiastic" in a rude
wooden building in
> little Axum, a 3-day drive from the capital on bad roads. But inside the
building are
> sumptuous curtains and paintings depicting stories in the Old Testament.
>
> "Nobody sees it -- you have to take it on faith that it's the ark,"
Pankhurst says. "It's a
> question of veneration."
>
> Even asking the man who is second in command to the patriarch of the
conservative
> Ethiopian Orthodox church brings a stern rebuke.
>
> "There is in our country the Ark of the Covenant," says Archbishop Gerima,
who sits in the
> patriarchate in the capital city. "You can ask his holiness about it, but
I am not going to
> discuss it. It's impossible to see it."
>
> The patriarch is "out" or "in a meeting" in subsequent queries.
>
> In every town across the country, a replica of the ark is kept in an
Ethiopian Orthodox
> church. Only ordained priests are allowed to see even the replicas,
Pankhurst says. Once a
> year, for the festival of Timket, on Jan. 19, Epiphany on the Ethiopian
Orthodox Christian
> calendar, the replicas are taken from behind curtains, draped with
beautiful material and
> paraded around. The faithful renew their vows. Ethiopia, better known for
famines and
> wars, is mostly Christian, though Muslims are estimated to make up between
one-third and
> one-half of the country's population, estimated at 67 million.
>
> Demelash Nega, who comes from the Axum region, laughs when asked if the
ark could
> possibly be the real thing.
>
> "Of course it's real, just like Jesus Christ is real," Nega says. "How
else could it survive for
> so many years?"
>
> Menelik was said to have gone to Jerusalem to see his father. Legend has
it that his
> followers said they would not return home without the ark. The followers
spirited it away
> from Jerusalem in the middle of the night -- continuing their travels
until they reached
> Ethiopia.
>
> Menelik became the first of a new line of kings in the northern Africa
region.
>
> "It's intimately related to Christian history," Pankhurst says solemnly of
the religious object
> said to be the ark. "Everyone should know that it is here."
>
> Copyright © 2002 United Press International
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups
with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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> 
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>
> Om

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and 

Re: [CTRL] CHRISTIANS FORCED INTO ISLAMIC SCHOOLS

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Prudy L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] CHRISTIANS FORCED INTO ISLAMIC SCHOOLS


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 10/22/2002 5:26:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> >  I have personally seen videos of children in kindergarten being taught
to
> > kill Jews. That is what the children of Christians will learn if forced
to
> > attend the schools run by Yasser Arafat.
>
> This is really strange considering how well the Christians are treated in
> Turkey.  I have seen children of primary school age who thought killing
Jews
> was a great idea and said they would do it if it became possible, but they
> were the children of some strange Christian sect in the United States.  I
> think this was on a Donahue program (one of the old ones), and I recall
his
> expression--an odd mixture of disbelief and horror.  I don't recall the
name
> of the "Christian" group any longer.  Prudy


Are you getting senile Prudy?

It's not that they are Muslim like the Turks.

It's that they are Arabs/Palestinians.

Buy the way. Are you aware that the Turks really hate Arabs?

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] CNN Involved in Jesus Box Hoax

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 7:13 PM
Subject: [CTRL] CNN Involved in Jesus Box Hoax


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> http://www.voxnyc.com/archives/0037.htm";>http://www.voxnyc.com/arc
hives/0037.htm
>
>
>
> CNN Involved in Jesus Box Hoax
>
> News service is major pipeline for Illuminati propaganda
> by voxfux
>
> Now, when these Illuminati, New World Order, types want to inject a lie
> directly into the brains of billions of people simultaneously - CNN is one
> stop shopping.
>
> The indicators which are surfacing, point to only one conclusion - That
> indeed the CIA has full and total control of CNN news operations and has
> transformed the news organization into an instrument of the righ religous
> orders and billionaires they currently answer to.
>
> A few months back, this religous order needed to build a stronger case
> against Osama Bin Laden, (to temporarily prop up their flagging puppet
Bush,
> so what did they do? Through CNN they "Discovered us' some juicy dog
gassing
> murder tapes just in time to distract us from what a dismal world it has
> become since this agent for the illuminati religous order, George Bush,
> siezed the reigns of power.
>
> Now it's the Jesus Box!
>
>
> We at voxnyc like Jesus. But we don't like lies, especially one's so
obvious
> as like this one is.
>
> Nowhere in the article does it mention that although the box may indeed be
> 2000 years old, the name jesus, scratched into it could have been done a
> couple weeks ago. NOT ONE MENTION. And isn't it funny how all this
evidence
> can never be traced to where it was originated from. The Jesus box was
> allegedly purchaced from a (now defunct) antique dealer 15 years ago. Like
> the Osama evidence, "Just found," in a house in Afghanistan.
>
> CNN must be dismantled any way possible. It refines reality down to the
> purest form of lie. It is an instrument of the dark force.
>
> Here's the lie directly from the religous order, through their agents at
CNN:
>
> We at voxnyc like Jesus. But we don't like lies, especially one's so
obvious
> as like this one is.
>
> No where in the article does it mention that although the box may indeed
be
> 2000 years old the name jesus, scratched into it could have been done a
> couple weeks ago. NOT ONE MENTION. And isn't it funny how all this
evidence
> can never be traced to where it was originated from. The Jesus box was
> allegedly purchaced from a (now defunct) antique dealer 15 years ago.
>
> CNN must be dismantled any way possible. It refine reality down to the
purest
> form of lie. It is an instrument of the dark force.

=

HA HA HA HA YHA HA HA HA HA HA.
Good thinking dude.

The Dark Force is out to get your myth.

I love to watch you superstitionists squirm.

J2


>
>
> Here's the hoax as issued by the religous order, through their agent at
CNN:
> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/index.html";>http:
//www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/index.html
>
> See if you can see "through" the lies.
> voxfux
>
>
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups
with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>  http://archive.jab.org/ctrl@;listserv.aol.com/">ctrl
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
> Om
>

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectr

Re: [CTRL] Re2 : CNN Involved in Jesus Box Hoax

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "magnetic field" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: [CTRL] Re2 : CNN Involved in Jesus Box Hoax


-Caveat Lector-

In the latin languages Jesus is pronounced like HEY Zeus
(in case you didn't know)

###
- Original Message -
  From: magnetic field
  To: Conspiracy Theory Research List
  Cc: Joseph Gemmato ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:06 PM
  Subject: Re: CNN Involved in Jesus Box Hoax


   I was raised in a Roman Catholic Orphanage. Now I worship God as
I please (I am a very open minded christian and don't follow any one
denomination).
   Friends have asked me why the Roman Catholic crucifix has the
sign nailed above the head of Jesus that says INRI. What it means is Ieshua
Nazarene Rex Israel (translated Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews).
   The  reason I believe this discovery is a hoax is that His name
was not Jesus. It is a bad translation of His name. The name was Yeshua (a
form of the name Joshua) in Aramaic and Ieshua (to the Greco- Roman world).
===

The name on the box is written in Aramaic and is pronounced Yhshu(a).
The real name of Jesus. All the names are correct.

If the box is a fraud, it's not for this reason.

J2

===

 The name Jesus is a corruption by people who were hard-pressed to pronounce
His name. (Personally I believe that the name Jesus was a blending of the
God symbols Jesus and Zeus (many pagan gods had changed over the years when
incorporated into other cultures for instances comparing Greek and Roman
gods of mythology).
 Also the name Joseph (Joses in Aramaic). His name would have
been Yeshua bar Joses (Yeshua son of Joses). Naturally this would have been
very confusing at a time in history of no surnames (what we call last
names). These were very common names at the time. His mother's name Mary
(Miriam in Aramaic) was common also. The King James Bible names four
brothers and un-named sisters. The Romam Catholic Church teaches that these
had to be children of a previous marriage of Joses. The Bible does say that
after the birth of (Yeshua) His mother (Miriam) was a wife to (Joses)
implying all the legal and social expectations of a loving marriage up to
and assuming the possible presence of other siblings. This would not bother
my faith at all if (Yeshua) had other brothers and sisters instead of being
the only son of (Miriam) and (Joses).
  Instead we have this notion of (Yeshua) being the only begotten
son of God. But even the New Testament traces His Family tree through
(Joses) being of the Line of David which makes no sense at all if (Joses)
was not His legal or biological father.
   Can someone comment of this subject???
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  #


http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civi

Re: [CTRL] Sniper: 'Your Children Are Not Safe' (fwd)

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Jei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 6:19 AM
Subject: [CTRL] Sniper: 'Your Children Are Not Safe' (fwd)


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> To me, this guy sounds more and more like something Mossad
> would have set up to help get Americans to support Israel.

You are an insane racist prick.

J2

>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/national/main524252.shtml
>
> Sniper: 'Your Children Are Not Safe'
>
> ASPEN HILL, Md., Oct. 22, 2002
>
> (CBS) Police investigating the Washington-area sniper shootings said
> Tuesday afternoon they had received a message warning, "Your children are
> not safe anywhere at any time."
>
> The chilling warning apparently was discovered by police Saturday night at
> the scene of a shooting outside a Virginia steakhouse. Police said it came
> in the form of a "postscript."
>
> Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose also said police "will be
> responding soon" to the latest message and did not take any questions from
> the media.
>
> Early Tuesday, a bus driver was shot and killed in the latest attack that
> bore the hallmarks of the serial sniper who has slain nine other people
> this month.
>
> A widespread dragnet was launched immediately after the shooting, clogging
> traffic on Connecticut Ave., one of the main arteries into Washington,
> D.C. just as the morning commute began.
>
> Conrad Johnson, a 35-year-old father of two, was shot as he stood at the
> top of the steps of the bus shortly before 6 a.m., Montgomery County
> police said. Johnson was a 10-year county employee.
>
> "We don't know if this is related but we're treating this as if it is,"
> said Montgomery County Police Capt. Nancy Demme.
>
> The shooting happened near an apartment building and wooded area along
> Connecticut Avenue. The bus was parked at a staging area where drivers get
> ready for their morning runs, state police spokesman Cpl. Rob Moroney
> said. He didn't know if anyone else was on the bus.
>
> Within minutes, police closed many roads around the shooting scene and set
> up roadblocks at points along the Capital Beltway. Teams of officers and
> FBI agents with automatic rifles slung over their shoulders, were checking
> all cars driven by men on the main roads leading out of Montgomery County,
> reports CBS News Correspondent Dan Raviv. By late morning, the roadblocks
> were largely being lifted, police said.
>
> CBS News Correspondent Barry Bagnato reports police and federal agents
> were focusing not on an apartment complex across the street from the bus
> but on a small neighborhood park next to the bus stop, as police
> helicopters hovered over the scene.
>
> Bagnato reports that although there's no panic in the voices of the people
> who live across the street from the shooting, many resident speculate the
> serial killer is from the area.
>
> Dogs were being used to comb a wooded patch where presumably the shooter
> hid, aiming across a basketball court into the bus, where the driver was
> struck.
>
> The location is near the sites of the first six sniper attacks, all on
> Oct. 2 and 3. In all, 12 people have been shot in Maryland, Virginia and
> Washington, D.C.; three were critically wounded.
>
> "We remain concerned about the safety of all the people in our region,"
> Moose said Tuesday. "We realize that the person or the people involved in
> this have shown a clear willingness and ability to kill people of all
> ages, all races, all genders, all professions, different times, different
> days and different locations."
>
> "I was getting ready to leave for work this morning. I heard a loud bang,"
> said Kim Roberts, a carpenter who lives nearby. "It wasn't a pop like a
> handgun. If it was a gun, it was a high-powered weapon." He said he knew
> about the sound of weapons from his military service.
>
> CBS Radio Affiliate WTOP reports another eyewitness said he heard three
> shots, which is unusual since the sniper has been known for firing once.
>
> The most recent shooting blamed on the sniper critically wounded a
> 37-year-old man Saturday night outside a steakhouse in Ashland, Virginia.
>
> On Monday, police said they received a call about the attack, hinting it
> was from the sniper, but that the call was muddled.
>
> "The person you called could not hear everything you said. The audio was
> unclear and we want to get it right. Call us back so that we can clearly
> understand," said Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose, who has
> been leading the hunt.
>
> Moose did not disclose who received the muddled phone call, when it was
> made or other details. But investigators believe the call may have come
> from the sniper and that the caller was the person who left a note and
> phone number at the scene of Saturday night's shooting, a law enforcement
> source told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity.
>
> A senior law enforcement official speaking to The Associated Press 

Re: [CTRL] Sollog: Maryland Shootings a SATANIC SACRIFICE!

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Sollog: Maryland Shootings a SATANIC SACRIFICE!


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 10/14/02 7:17:31 AM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > This is total and complete bullshit!
> > Utterly bullshit.
> > Idiotic psychoreligious paranoia.
> >
> > Typical of screwed up brains like Shannon's.
>
> You sure are hostile!!
> Take a handful of Seconal and wash it down with a bottle of Manichevitz
why
> don't ya?
>
> Bill.

Sorry. That's not how we deal with stuff. However I do understand
why you would suggest it.

Ya know I remeber a time when you were failry bright.
What happened to you?

Not that I care.
Just curious.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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Re: [CTRL] Sollog: Maryland Shootings a SATANIC SACRIFICE!

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 9:15 AM
Subject: [CTRL] Sollog: Maryland Shootings a SATANIC SACRIFICE!


This is total and complete bullshit!
Utterly bullshit.
Idiotic psychoreligious paranoia.

Typical of screwed up brains like Shannon's.

Joshua2


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> http://www.davidicke.com/icke/index1c.html";>http://www.davidicke.com/i
cke/index1c.html
>
>
>
> Maryland Shootings a SATANIC SACRIFICE!
> Map of Shootings shows CROSS OF SATAN
> Written By D.E. Alexander http://www.247news.net/";>24 7 News Net
> 24 7 News Net - The Alternative News Wire
> Join our emailing list http://www.247news.net/freeupdates.shtml";>http://www.247news.net/freeu
pdates.shtml
>
> 24 7 News Net - The Alternative News Wire
> October 4th, 2002
> Update October 9th, 2002 (Psychic Sollog names next locations of Sniper!
> Click Here for Article on http://www.247news.net/2002/sniper.shtml";>Sollog's Future Sniper
Location Warning
> Update October 11th, 2002 (Sniper Strikes where famous Psychic WARNED!)
> Click Here for Article on http://www.247news.net/2002/sniper.shtml";>Sollog's Accurate
Warning
>
> I was doing an interview today with the world famous mystic known as http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog
> who I have written a couple of books about. http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog is an expert on occult
> matters and symbols. The reason I was interviewing http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog once again, was
> that he put the details of yesterday's devastating hurricane into a public
> court statement SEVEN YEARS AGO TODAY! His statement of October 4th 1995
> warned that LOUISIANA would be hit by a major hurricane near New Orleans.
> Yesterday Lili fulfilled his warning LITERALLY! Close to 2 Billion in
damages
> occurred within 100 miles of New Orleans in Louisiana.
>
> Now my interview with http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog about
Hurricane Lili is featured in another
> story on this site. However, this story about the Maryland Shootings is
> needed since my interview today took an unexpected direction when I asked
him
> about the 5 DEADLY SHOOTINGS in Maryland.
>
> http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog said matter-of-factly, "The
shootings were a SATANIC SACRIFICE
> performed by a special ops soldier of the US Government who works for a
> demonic part of the US Government that wishes to take away guns from US
> Citizens. This same part of the US Government is controlled by a SECRET
> SATANIC SOCIETY similar to SKULL AND BONES, the SATANIC SOCIETY that
George
> W. Bush and his father belongs to! These SECRET SATANIC SOCIETIES are out
to
> create their NEW WORLD ORDER that is based upon worship of SATAN and THE
RAMS
> HEAD! Taking guns from US Citizens is a necessary part of their SATANIC
PLAN
> to control the world! If you map out the locations of the FIVE SHOOTINGS
the
> locations form THE CROSS OF ST. PETER or the UPSIDE DOWN CROSS that
Satanic
> cults use in their rituals! The number five represents the points of a
> PENTAGRAM, the sign of a SATANIC SACRIFICE! Two of the victims were CHOSEN
> since they have RAMS in their names. RAMOS and MARTIN are two of the
victims.
> These names fit the same pattern of the rash of US Kidnappings that all
had
> RAMS or MARS in their names! (See our articles on how the recent US
> Kidnappings are connected) RAMS are the sacrificial sign of SATAN and MARS
is
> the planetary sign these SATANIC CULTS use in these sacrifices!"
>
> http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog later sent me a map of the
Shootings to verify his claims. Sure enough
> the map of the area near Washington DC shows an UPSIDE DOWN CROSS in the
> locations of the shootings!
>
> So there you have it, a RASH OF SATANIC SHOOTINGS by an expert marksman
who
> used only one bullet in each SACRIFICE. Didn't Ari Fleischer just mention
ONE
> BULLET the other day? How brazen the SATANISTS like Bush are to have
warned
> of this event to the press the other day! You can interpret the Ari
Fleischer
> comment now as, ONE BULLET SACRIFICES ARE COMING right near DC. I wonder
how m
> any congressmen and senators are now SO SCARED that they will vote to take
> away GUNS from the citizens of the USA and leave them only in the hands of
> the Satanists running DC?
>
> As I mentioned above, I've written a couple of books about http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog they are
> below as well as links to his web site http://www.sollog.com/";>http://www.Sollog.com
>
> http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog was heavily investigated by
the FBI for his accurate 911 warning.
>
> The book I wrote about the Sollog 911 Warning is at http://www.1ebooks.com/911";>
> http://www.1ebooks.com/911 The book I wrote about The Prophecies of http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog is
> at http://www.1ebooks.com/prophecies";>http://www.1ebooks.com/prophecies
>
> A book about The Prophecies of http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog
written by http://www.sollog.com/";>Sollog is at http://www.1ebooks.com/prophe

Re: [CTRL] Sniper not a terrorist?.... and nothing to do with oil ? j2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Tony Dickinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 2:42 PM
Subject: [CTRL] Sniper not a terrorist? and nothing to do with oil ?


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> I notice that a third of these 'sniper' killings targeted someone at a
> place where oil is purchased. Coincidence ?
>
> T

It's a stretch, but possible I guess. They happen at gas stations because
the target is standing immobile while pumping gas, AND gas stations are
usually well lited.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

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Om

Re: [CTRL] SNIPER j2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Jim Rarey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] SNIPER


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> The really odd thing about this is the refusal of the media and officials
to call the sniper(s) terrorists.
>

That's RIGHT! I live right smack in the middle of the killings. This place
is terrorized, and people are seriously altering their normal lives.

To date, only Cliff Van Zandt the ex-FBI profiler has stated publically on
TV
that this is terrorism.

Nevertheless, every person I speak with considers it a possibility.

I think I know why they are not using the " T " word. I'll give you a hint.
It's the same reason that the Mayor of the town in Jaws didn't use the
" S " word.

J2

> The very definition of a terrorist is one who intentionally creates
terror.
>
> When it involves killings (assassinations) there are two kinds of
terrorism differing in intent and the targets chosen. The clue to the intent
may be in the targets chosen.
>
> One kind of terrorism is by the government itself. The intent is to
persuade the populace that opposition is dangerous and futile. In these
cases the targets chosen would be those known to be in opposition to the
government or not actively supporting it. This is the kind of terror Lenin
unleashed in the Soviet Union after the Bolshevik hijacking of the Russian
revolution.
>
> The second brand of terrorism is aimed at toppling the existing
government. The killings are necessarily random and have two hoped for
effects.
>
> The first is to force the  government to institute increasingly repressive
measures in an attempt to provide "security" to the populace.
>
> The second is to alienate the population from its government because of
the repression and the perception that the current government is not
capabale of protecting them. Eventually this leads to the overthrow of the
existing government by the (clandestine) terrorists who promise security
without the repression.
>
> Of course there is a gray area between the two kinds of terrorism. The
government could be sponsoring the terrorism to justify more repressive
measures which consolidate its control. In this case the terrorism would be
random but would cease at some point before the resentment reached critical
mass.
>
> No doubt the current terrorism will be used to push for disarmament of the
civilian population. That is a necessity for complete government control and
to make a mis-judgment by the  government of the point of critical mass less
likely to result in a successful revolution.
>
> It is not yet clear where the current killings by the sniper(s) fit into
the spectrum of terrorism.
>
> JR
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Mermaid
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2002 4:48 AM
> Subject: [CTRL] SNIPER
>
>
> -Caveat Lector-
> Dont you get this feeling that this sniper attacking Maryland and
surrounding areas is a little surreal.
> We havent had a lot of news on it here but from what I gather the reason
they say they have not captured this man is because he uses a high velocity
long range gun.
> Surely this is a nonsense! These sort of guns hav been used before in
assasinations and mass shootings and they have always caught the
perpertrator even though we know the person captured is either mind
controlled or innocent.
> Why is this so different?
> We were treated to a duo report today one on what is happening out there
and i could feel the fear of the people,and two a piece on sniper clubs and
their popularity out there.
> Which leads us to question is this a test in fear and reaction of the
public to such a crime thereby whipping up an anti gun feeling so as to stop
this popular sniper club following?
> When We had this shooting in dunblaine in Scotland there was no discussion
with gun clubs they just went ahead and banned handguns which further
fuelled the black market for more business.If someone wants a gun badly
enough they will find it in my opinion and this knee jerk reaction of the
british government has to be seen as an outright intimidation of people
rights.
> An unarmed public is a public at the mercy of the power brokers.We cannot
defend ourselves in a crisis and that I believe is the key to this.
> The British people put up and shut up but the american citizens who have
held guns for years to protect themselves may not give in so easily. So is
this sniper situation being theatrically staged to bring fear to America and
a way of forcing the people to vote guns out.
> After all what are a few dead people in comparison to 9/11!
> If they can do this to thousands of their own people in 9/11 then this is
just fun in a candy shop!
> The Mermaid
> England x
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These
are sordid matters a

Re: [CTRL] well I never did!!!

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Mermaid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: [CTRL] well I never did!!!


-Caveat Lector-

http://www.rense.com/general30/iug.htm

This article is FAKE!

Joshua2




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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Zionism, Anti Semitism and American Democracy

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Mermaid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Zionism, Anti Semitism and American Democracy


-Caveat Lector-

Re: [CTRL] Zionism, Anti Semitism and American DemocracyThew
you are partly right in your assesment of christianity being opposed to the
thought that christ was jewish.
What you have to understand is that Christ wasnt Jewish and he wasnt
christian these are just labels.People make their "Hero" their own
denomination
===
>>
This applies to Christians. Not Jews. Jesus was totally and completely
Jewish and nothing else. He was born Jewish. His Parents were Jewish.
He lived in a Jewish country. His friends were Jewish. HE CLAIMED TO
BE JEWISH. His brothers died defending Jewish Jreusalem from the
Romans. AND, he was executed for being a Jewish freedom fighter
against Rome. The Romans said he was the King of the Jews. Not the
King of the Bhudists.

You know NOTHING about this subject. Try something else.

Joshua2
=

if Christ existed at all it was in the wrong vein.
He was an essene a teacher like Buddah. But the Powers in Rome turned it
around they needed a way out.
I have no doubt he did exist but not in the context we have been led to
believe.
What about quetzacotl ?
The Bible is a hodge Podge of mindcontrolled and carefully disected words
and passages. see Nag hammedi scrolls)
Look at it this way if you wanted to control christianity and keep the
people from asking questions what would you do.
It is a well known fact that in england in the middle ages they used
christianity to control people to take their money and keep them from asking
questions about their true origins.
I could go on forever on this subject but it really comes down to the fact
that you have to understand that religion is a controlling factor for the
powers to control the people
Ask yourself this question thew if There was no proof that Jesus existed
other than the bible then would there be this trouble in the middle east at
the moment and would there have been the wars that have happened related to
religion and its manmade divisions?
There is no division it is only in the minds of the people who seek to
control us.
Who gave us the names of Jew Gentile catholic Mormon Jehovahs witness
Christian.
Its all a control device to get us warring against each other.
If god exists if Christ existed then we should all be of one mind not
brainwashed into thinking he is this he is that.
this is my land promised by god etc.,
What do you think of reincarnation and the soul and freewill ask yourself
these questions and suddenly the field becomes bigger.
The Mermaid x
  - Original Message -
  From: thew
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 3:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [CTRL] Zionism, Anti Semitism and American Democracy


  -Caveat Lector-
  And on this belief rests 2000 years of anti-Semitism and murder.
  Poor Christianity can never sit comfortably as long as there are Jews.
Every Jews who did not accept Christ as Jewish Messiah is a slap in the face
of the Christian worldview

  on 9/24/02 7:26 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


It appears that Judaism made a mistake when it rejected Christ's gospel
of Love.



  --

  To be nobody but yourself, in a world which is doing its best, night and
day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle that any
human being can fight--and never stop fighting.

  -  e.e. cummings









  NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
  http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These
are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence
to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
  Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
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  Om


http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & D

Re: [CTRL] Zionism, Anti Semitism and American Democracy

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "thew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Zionism, Anti Semitism and American Democracy


> -Caveat Lector-
>
>
> And on this belief rests 2000 years of anti-Semitism and murder.
> Poor Christianity can never sit comfortably as long as there are Jews.
Every
> Jews who did not accept Christ as Jewish Messiah is a slap in the face of
> the Christian worldview
>
> on 9/24/02 7:26 PM, William Shannon at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > It appears that Judaism made a mistake when it rejected Christ's gospel
of
> > Love.
>

And what? Produce loving dipshits like you? I don't think so.

It appears that Christianity made a mistake when it dumped
the real Jewish Jesus and replaced him with a Pagan family,
and took on the pseudo-canabilistic rituals that were the earmark
of the gentile Pagans of the Roman Empire.

The result is the " loving " history of the West/European culture.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] NEST OF ISRAELI AGENTS IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT --j2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] NEST OF ISRAELI AGENTS IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT --j2


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 9/22/02 6:14:00 AM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > Of course we spy on them.  What do you think the Liberty was doing
> > when they shot it up?
>
> Are you suggesting that what was done to the Liberty is ok?
> Why not make that suggestion to the survivors and the families of the
> victims? I'd love to see that!
>
> Bill.

Don't play games jerkoff. The question was do WE spy on Israel.
My answer was yes. The Liberty being that example.

Nowhere in my response above do I say it was ok.

But if that was indeed the case, then ANY country has the right
to protect itself.

As for telling the the relatives and survivors, they all knew the risks
of being in the military on a spy ship. And the other question is what
made it OK for the individuals on the Liberty to spy on an ally and pass the
information to Israel's enemies WHILE THEY WERE FIGHTING A WAR?

Is that ok Shannon? Who is screwing who here?

I don't see them or you or ANYBODY else for that matter make a big deal
out of an identical situation where our ally Sadam shot up a US spyship
in the Gulf while it was spying on him and Iran during the Iran/Iraq war.
Sadam said it was an accident, and we dropped the issue.

This is what we do when we get caught.

The point here is that the US spies on its friends and allies when
it wants to. All countries spy on all other countries.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] NEST OF ISRAELI AGENTS IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] NEST OF ISRAELI AGENTS IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 9/20/02 8:27:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > Do you think the US has agents in Israel?
>
> Does Israel give us 6 billion bucks a year and protect us from all the
people
> in the world who hate us?

Ignorant racist fool. The answer is YES.

Joshua2

>
> Bill.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] NEST OF ISRAELI AGENTS IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT --j2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] NEST OF ISRAELI AGENTS IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT


-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 9/20/02 10:27:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> No, That’s what we give them - they give us a place to test illegal
weapons,
> and have guaranteed access to the oil producing regions of the world.

Who has "guaranteed access to the oil producing regions of the world?"
Israel?
So anyway WE give Israel at least $6,000,000,000 a year and they spy on us
and you have the stones to ask if we spy on them? Talk about gall!

Bill.

Of course we spy on them.  What do you think the Liberty was doing
when they shot it up?

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] NEST OF ISRAELI AGENTS IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] NEST OF ISRAELI AGENTS IN THE U.S. GOVERNMENT


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 9/20/02 10:52:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > Wake up
> > Everyone spies on everyone
>
> Not people who owe their very survival on those they're spying on...that
show
> a deeply flawed character.
>
> Bill.


Fuck you Shannon. Talk about a deeply flawed character.
Racist, paranoid, LaRouchie.

Did you READ the LaRouche article you posted you dumb schmuck?

> a 1996 Israeli government policy that is being foisted on the President
by a nest of Israeli agents inside the U.S. government.>

> This Israeli spy network inside the United States was unable achieve
their objective until President Bush was entrapped by the events of
Sept. 11, 2001 and the falsified accounts of those events provided by
this foreign intelligence apparatus, and lured over to their policies. >

Gee. EVERYBODY in the intelligence services are so gullible. Only those
really clever Jews could manage to fool evrybody but the even more
clever Lyndon LaRouche.

> On July 8, 1996, Richard Perle, now the Chairman of the Defense Policy
Board, an advisory group that reports to Deputy Defense Secretary Paul
Wolfowitz,
 presented a written document to Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu, spelling out a new Israeli foreign policy,

Now let's analyse this. Israeli spies in the US gov don't present Israeli
Prime ministers with a new foreign policy. Israeli Prime Ministers don't
make such decisions alone. They work it through their parliaments and
must get their backing. This story is ridiculous on its face.

If he is not an Israeli spy. Why is an American oficial presenting a foreign
SOVEREIGN country's Prime Minister with new foreign policy directives?

Who's zooming who?

> calling
for a repudiation of the Oslo Accords and the underlying concept of
"land for peace"; for the permanent annexation of the entire West Bank
and Gaza Strip; and for the elimination of the Saddam Hussein regime in
Baghdad, as a first step towards overthrowing or destabilizing the
governments of Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Iran. The document was
prepared for the Jerusalem and Washington, DC-based Institute for
Advanced Strategic and Political Studies (IASPS), a think tank financed
by Richard Mellon-Scaife.

You mean the Zionist Richard Mellon-Scaife? Or the Ultra-conservative
Richard Mellon-Scaife.

There IS NO Zionist Richard Mellon-Scaife.

> The report, "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for
Securing the Realm," was co-authored by Perle; Douglas Feith, currently
the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Policy; David Wurmser, currently
special assistant to State Department chief arms control negotiator John
Bolton; and Meyrav Wurmser, now Director of Mideast Policy at the Hudson
Institute.>

All these clowns are the super-hawks of the Reagan era. Some of them
are Jews. But the point is that they are different from the Liberal
Globalists
who have historically been pro-Arab. The guys in the Clinton administration.
The land for peace guys. The Oslo guys.

> Two days after he received the foreign policy blueprint from Perle,
Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu delivered a speech before a joint
session of the U.S. Congress, which strongly echoed the IASPS outline.
The same day, the Wall Street Journal published excerpts from the IASPS
document, and the next day, July 11, 1996, the Journal editorially
endorsed the Perle document.

Beginning in February 1998, the British government of Prime Minister
Tony Blair launched a concerted effort, in league with the Netanyahu
government in Israel, and the Perle Israeli agent-of-influence networks
inside the United States, to induce President William Clinton to launch
a war against Iraq, under precisely the terms spelled out for Netanyahu
in the "Clean Break" paper. The war was to be launched, ostensibly, over
Iraq's possession of "weapons of mass destruction." United Nations
weapons inspectors were, at this time, still on the ground inside Iraq.>

And it all went away untill September 11 2001, when Arab terrorists
attacked the USA and killed 3000 Americans.

In addition to that the Oslo Peace process totally backfired into violent
terrorist, and counter terrorist conflict. Everything that the NWO elites
tried with the Arabs was falling apart.

And that pretty much ended 55 years of ALWAYS pro-Saudi, and SOMETIMES
pro-Israel policies.

The Arabs couldn't get their shit together. They were violent, corrupt and
stupid.
They hated the USA in a way which couldn't be covered up anymore. And
so it was time to take the bull by the balls and get rid of these useless
proxies and take over the region by force. With out anyone to stop it, the
US has
a rare window of opportunity to do anything it wants to. It want's to remove
control of th

Re: [CTRL] Only 5 ? - J2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Only 5 ?


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 9/20/02 4:15:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > Someone check this out please...surely this cant be correct..only 5
israelis
> > killed?
> > There must have been more than this.Someone has made a mistake here.
> > The Mermaid
> >
> >
> > The five Israeli victims of September 11
> > http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=206420&cont
rassID=3&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0">Alona Avraham
> > http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=206428&cont
rassID=3&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0">Leon Lebor
> > http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=206429&cont
rassID=3&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0">Shay Levinhar
> > http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=206427&cont
rassID=3&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0">Daniel Lewin
> > http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=206430&cont
rassID=3&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0">Haggai Sheffi
> >
>
> Clearly this isn't counting dual-citizens!
>
> Bill.


What do you mean " clearly?" There is no clearly.
And, it doesn't matter either. If there were dual
citizen victims, then it was still an American killed
by your boys.

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Zionists

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Euphorian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Zionists


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> 9/12/02 11:29:04 AM, Nurev Ind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Get a grip on reality here Mermaid.
>
> Reality is an increasingly subjective term.  Like Mel Gibson done did say,
most of them
> might be wrong but at least one of 'em has to be right.
>

Yeah well. Mel Gibson is a moron too.
And the worst overpaid actor in Hollywood.

Really now. Quoting Mel Gibson.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Zionists

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Mermaid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: [CTRL] Zionists


-Caveat Lector-

> I have just finished reading Joe Vials
Americans Must Stop Whining About 9/11

> And now it is all very clear that the Zionist faction of the american
government blew up the twin Towers I looked up the 23 protocols and other
stuff relating to this and now I am more aware of what we are up against.
==
Oh Jeez! What is it about this list that draws from an endless source of
psycho/morons?

Is there nothing you people won't believe? No matter how stupid?
=

> We have a question bugging us on my list at the moment IF there was no
flight 77 which went into the pentagon where are the passengers?.
==
Why, they are floating around up there in the Rapture of course.

There WAS a fl77. It did crash into the Pentagon. There is no doubt about it
what so ever. Saying otherwise is lying bullshit.

Get a grip on reality here Mermaid.

J2
===

> I know you only have 5 chances to post but if you could email me privately
with your thoughts on this i would really appreciate it.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thankyou.
The Mermaid
PS I made a typing error on my epistle I dont believe in God it should have
read Is it better to beleive in a god you cannot see or the truth you can
see sorry (someone just pointed it out to me.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Conservatism is Pretend Salt!

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "iNFoWaRZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Conservatism is Pretend Salt!


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> At 10:46 PM 9/1/02 , you wrote:
> >-Caveat Lector-
> >
> >This is stupid superstitious drivel.
> >Keep it in Church dude.
> >And the best salt is on pretzels.
> >
> >J2
>
> Another outstanding critique, joshie troll too.  Keep your thoughts at
home dudie. Your intelligent commentary, critical thinking, intricate
debating skills, and ability to dissect integrate concepts are only
surpassed by your PC dullness.
>

Why thank you. Thank you ver' much.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Conservatism is Pretend Salt!

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

This is stupid superstitious drivel.
Keep it in Church dude.
And the best salt is on pretzels.

J2


- Original Message -
From: "iNFoWaRZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 1:53 AM
Subject: [CTRL] Conservatism is Pretend Salt!


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Conservatism is Pretend Salt!
>
> By Flip Benham Updated June 10, 2002
>
> As Christians we are called to be salt and light in a world that is
rotting on the inside from the consequences of sin, and attacked on the
outside by an enemy (the devil) who has come to rob, kill, and destroy. The
world, in all of its wisdom, is in utterly helpless and without hope in this
battle - no answers, no solutions, no way! One need only listen to the
talking heads and politicians of our day to realize they are clueless. The
catastrophic events in the Mid-East, "9-11", bloodshed coursing down the
corridors of our streets, workplaces, and schools - oh, what to do! Violence
is filling our land!
>
> It is into this hopeless, decaying world that the Church of Jesus Christ
is called to bring salt and light. We do battle with the sin that destroys
from within and the enemy who destroys from without. We are called to take
captive our thoughts and make them obedient unto Christ (2 Cor. 10:5). Then
we are called to crush the head of the enemy robbing, killing, and
destroying (Gen. 3:15, Rom. 16:20).
>
> The Church of Jesus Christ is the only institution ordained by God to
fight this battle against the sin raging from within, and the devil raging
from without. It is the only true salt and our only hope for victory.
Unfortunately, the salt has abdicated its responsibility to be salt in the
earth and light in the world. It has become good for nothing except to be,
trampled under the feet of men (Matt. 5:13).
>
> Not only are we being trampled under the feet of sworn enemies of our Lord
who support abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, ad nauseum, we are also
being trampled under the feet of another so-called friend - CONSERVATISM!
>
> As our nation attempts to defeat the spirit of murder presently savaging
our land, the Church of Jesus Christ has delegated the job to one who cannot
win the battle. Enter modern day conservatism!
>
> Conservatism looks like salt, talks like salt, acts like salt, seeks the
vote and friendship of salt, yet, when the test of taste comes, it is
revealed for what it really is - a tasteless enabler of perdition! That's
right! Conservatism enables true salt to remain in the shaker while it
attempts pragmatic deal making with an enemy bent on destroying God's
children.
>
> Conservatism will work hard on bills like partial birth abortion, parental
notification, etc., but will never stand firm for all children whether they
are six months old in the womb or two seconds old. Conservatism is a
pathetic substitute for the vibrant salt of real Christianity. Conservatism
poses no threat to the enemy from within (sin) or the enemy from without
(the devil).
>
> Rush Limbaugh, the penultimate conservative, has no problem supporting
conservatives like Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison, even though he knows her
to be pro-abortion, because she is a fiscal conservative. Rush believes that
conservatism is the answer to America's woes. Rush will sacrifice Christian
principle to elect conservatives
>
> "Right to Life" organizations in the state of Texas worked hard a couple
of years ago getting the "parental notification" bill passed and signed into
law by then Governor George W. Bush. It was hailed as a great victory for
the pro-life movement. Florence Shapiro, however, the state senator who
authored the bill, was Republican, conservative, and pro-abortion! Yet she
is now considered a friend to the pro-life community. Conservatism thrives
in this muddying of the waters.
>
> Conservatism will confront the enemy with the evil he promotes but, on the
day of battle, will always retreat. Conservatism always tries to reason and
compromise with the enemy seeking some "common ground" or "reaching across
the aisle." Conservatism is politics' answer to Christianity. Its modus
operandi is pragmatism. Principle is abandoned and obtaining and maintaining
political office is its summum bonum. In order to become more appealing
these days it calls itself "Compassionate Conservatism."
>
> If you have been watching our President and his administration lately you
will note the waffling, pandering, compromising, ad nauseam of Christian
principles to the god of conservatism. If conservatism is the hired gun of
the Church to take on her political enemies, it is a pitiful squirt gun. How
the devil must laugh! Just watch him laugh through Yasser Arafat, Ted
Kennedy, the abortion industry, the radical homosexual agenda, Tom Daschel.
They serve their "god" with absolute allegiance. They know that they can
count on conservatism to sell her "god' for thirty pieces of silver and
political office.
>
> The result of the Church of Jesus Christ allo

Re: [CTRL] Doctor arrested in Florida is a 'terrorist,' too

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 10:10 PM
Subject: [CTRL] Doctor arrested in Florida is a 'terrorist,' too


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/outlook/1552559";>http:
//www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/outlook/1552559
>
>
>
> Aug. 28, 2002, 6:52PM
>
> Doctor arrested in Florida is a 'terrorist,' too
> By ARSALAN TARIQ IFTIKHAR
>
> ACCORDING to the FBI, a Florida doctor arrested after police found more
than
> 15 homemade explosive devices in his home allegedly drafted a detailed
plan
> to blow up an Islamic educational center. The search of Robert J.
Goldstein's
> residence also turned up a list of about 50 Islamic worship centers in the
> Tampa-St. Petersburg area and other locations in Florida. Attached to the
> criminal complaint against Goldstein was a three-page "mission template"
for
> an attack on an unidentified "Islam education center," which included a
map
> of the center showing where bombs would be placed.
>
> Referring to Webster's Dictionary, "terrorism" is defined as "the unlawful
> use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized
group
> against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing
> societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."
> According to the damning evidence against the Florida podiatrist, there
> should be absolutely no hesitation in classifying Goldstein as a
"terrorist."

I agree. If his intent was to harm Muslims, he IS a terrorist and should be
charged as one.

J2

> Yet, in news coverage from The Associated Press to CNN, there was not one
> mention of the word "terrorist." However, if we change one facet of this
> scenario, we would have a completely different ballgame.
>
> Instead of Goldstein, let's say his name was Dr. Muhammad. Assume the same
> bomb materials were found in the same Florida home. Instead of blueprints
of
> Islamic centers and mosques, his house was littered with floor plans of
more
> than 50 synagogues and Jewish day schools. In addition to the blueprints
and
> the arsenal, there were scattered pages of his manifesto that claimed to
> eliminate all traces of Judaism from America. Surely, one would be hard
> pressed to find one person alive who would not consider the hypothetical
man
> above a "terrorist."
>
> So why the double standard? There was not one mention of Goldstein's
religion
> or political affiliation in any of the media outlets. It would follow a
> simple logical progression that his fiery hatred of Muslims was either
fueled
> by a dogmatic or political doctrine. Was Goldstein a Jewish extremist who
> wanted to rid this country of all "rags"? Was he a member of a militia
group
> aimed at targeting those affiliated with the terrorists of last September?
We
> don't know, because no one made his political or religious affiliation an
> issue.
>
> On the contrary, the media wasted no time in classifying as a possible
> "terrorist" Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, the man responsible for the shooting
at
> the El Al counter at Los Angeles International Airport in July.

Is it even POSSIBLE for an Arab/Muslim reporter to NOT LIE. Even when he
has a good case?

Hadayet was NOT charged as a terrorist or even called one.
As a matter of fact, it was downplayed by the authorities.
It was the
backlash by Jews and Israelis which made it an issue at all.

J2

> Hadayet, a
> disgruntled limousine driver from Egypt, was automatically categorized as
a
> possible "terrorist" because he was an Egyptian Muslim. In a rare flash of
> brilliance, the FBI cautioned the media against the classifcation. All
> evidence points to the fact that he was just a discontented limo driver
who
> unjustly took his frustration out on innocent civilians. There were no
AK-47s
> found in his home, no treatise on his hatred of a religious or ethnic
group.
> Yet, Hadayet was vilified as a possible terrorist, while the extent of
> Goldstein's vilification was that he was a "podiatrist from Tampa."
>
> Not all terrorists are Muslims, and not all Muslims are terrorists. I know
> it's hard to believe, but mass violence in the advancement of a personal,
> religious or political agenda is not something exclusive to the Islamic
> paradigm. Before Osama bin Laden became the most infamous terrorist known
to
> America, Timothy McVeigh used his perverted political agenda to slaughter
168
> innocents, including many children, who were playing at the day-care
center
> in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building on that fateful day in 1995. Last
> year, Irv Rubin, chairman of the Jewish Defense League, plotted to blow up
a
> Los Angeles mosque and the office of a U.S. congressman. If these
dastardly
> men are not guilty of terrorism, then no one can be honestly deemed a
> terrorist.
>
> The incarceration of Goldstein shows quite vividly that terrorism knows no
> color or religion. If we 

Re: [CTRL] The JESUIT Protocols

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Bill Kalivas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The JESUIT Protocols


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> OK, where do they come from?

Who cares. They are a silly fabrication. It doesn't matter if the
" Evil Controllers " are Jews, or Jesuits, or Reptiles.

This particular crap appears to be by antiCatholics.

J2

> >This is TOTALLY IDIOTIC bullshit. You don't have the slightest clue about
> >Jesuits or Zionism or anything for that matter.
> >
> >You are one DUMB racist muther!
> >DUMB!!!
> >
> >J2
>

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] The JESUIT Protocols

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "iNFoWaRZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 5:57 AM
Subject: [CTRL] The JESUIT Protocols


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> PROTOCOLS of  the LEARNED ELDERS of ZION
>
> The Zionists-the Jesuits are the Great Zionists.
> They control all of the historical High Zionists-Theodor Herzl, David
Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir.
> Zionism is a Masonic term, coined by the Jesuits.
> They are the rulers; they are the Protocols.
> The Jesuits are the Learned Elders of Zion.
> So the Zionists are, indeed, evil and wicked; but they are controlled by
Rome. The Jews are not all Zionists.
> http://www.geocities.com/lord_visionary/illuminatiprotocols.htm
> see also:
> http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/Protocol.htm
>
> The Jesuit Oath is similar to the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.
The Jesuits obviously wrote the Protocols because they have carried out
every protocol in that little handbook. They have carried everything out.
Indeed there are different Protocols, there may be as many as 20 or 30
Protocols. That is not so important as it is to understand that ALWAYS the
Protocols further the agenda of the Jesuit Order.
==

This is TOTALLY IDIOTIC bullshit. You don't have the slightest clue about
Jesuits or Zionism or anything for that matter.

You are one DUMB racist muther!
DUMB!!!

J2

>
> It was the huge gulag system, the huge concentration camp system, that
gave the Jesuits practice to do this in Europe, and the plan is to do it
SOON in America. The big thing was, that using the Protocols, the Jesuits
were able to blame it all on the Jews. A demonic masterpiece.
>
> --
> -iNFoWaRZ
> The mice in the maze are very happy.
> They are pleased with the freedom they have as they travel through the
many corridors of their maze.
> And sufficient food is always found at various locations within the maze.
> And they give not a thought about the hands that put them in the maze or
that feeds them.
> None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are
free.
> 
> "History is the lie commonly agreed upon," -Voltaire
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups
with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Feds Require ID for Transit Workers -j2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "iNFoWaRZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Feds Require ID for Transit Workers


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Well J2, I would expect this out of you.

> I may be an idiot, but you a Communist.

You're sure right about the first half of your sentence, but not the second
half. Unlike you, idiot, I have experienced communism and rejected it.
Just so you know.

> Only a pathetic moron would put their freedom and safety in the hands of
"the people of Boston".
> Slave talk: "theoretical concepts of ' freedom'."

You're not free you dumbbell. You never were. You just have some ideological
notion, and think IT is more important than life itself. You are worse than
an idiot. You are a delusional idiot. With a computer.

> By the way, the articles I post are for people that care about freedom,
not for those that have already given theirs up.

What the hell are you talking about? You don't know me or how I live.

> Enjoy your National ID that's coming, Slave.
> -iNFoWaRZ

National ID's don't bother me. Idiots with computers bother me.

J2
>==
>
> 8At 01:21 PM 8/24/02 , you wrote:
> >-Caveat Lector-
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "iNFoWaRZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 11:16 AM
> >Subject: [CTRL] Feds Require ID for Transit Workers
> >
> >
> > > -Caveat Lector-
> > >
> > > Another stepping stone to a National ID.
> > > Federal Government is Branding the Slaves.
> > > All to protect you from those mean bad boogiemen like Osama and
Saddam,
> >both of which are on the CIA payroll.
> > > But don't worry, Government will protect you, just give up all your
> > > freedom.
> >
> >You are an idiot.
> >
> >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > Feds Require ID for Transit Workers
> > > By Associated Press
> > > August 24, 2002, 6:19 AM EDT
> > >
> > > BOSTON -- The Transportation Security Administration is developing a
> >mandatory identification card for every transit worker with access to
secure
> >areas of the nation's transportation system.
> > >
> >
> >This is a GOOD thing idiot. At least for the people of Boston. Or should
> >they
> >risk THEIR lives for your theoretical concepts of ' freedom'.
> >
> >J2
> >
> > > The TSA, created after the Sept. 11 attacks, is developing cards for
every
> >trucker, dock worker, airport employee and mass transit employee with
access
> >to secure areas, The Boston Globe reported in Saturday's editions.
> > >
> > > "This is our top issue, and we are going to be making serious progress
on
> >it soon," said Elaine Charney, branch chief of transportation
infrastructure
> >for the agency's maritime and land security division.
> > >
> > > The cards would likely use a form of biometric identification, gleaned
> >from the user's eyes, voice, palms or fingerprints.
> > >
> > > The American Civil Liberties Union, which opposed national
identification
> >and driver's license proposals, would likely support the transit
> >identification cards, said Barry Steinhardt, director of the group's
> >technology and liberty program.
> > >
> > > If the agency chooses a proven biometric technology, the card would
create
> >"a positive good with few, if any, civil liberties downsides," he said.
> > >
> > > Charney said it currently it appears that "higher-risk transportation
> >workers," such as those in secure zones at airports and those handling
> >hazardous cargo, would be required to get the cards.
> > >
> > > "We just have to iron out some details," Charney said. "We are certain
> >it's coming."
> > >
> > > The number of truck drivers alone who could be required to carry the
card
> >could easily rise to the hundreds of thousands, said Dave Osiecki, vice
> >president for safety and operations for the American Trucking
Association.
> >According to federal statistics there are 3.1 million truckers in the
> >country.
> > >
> > > Osiecki said members of the trucking association largely support the
idea.
> > >
> > > "The devil is in the details, but we are interested in knowing who we
> >hire, who we have picking up the product and who delivers it. This is a
> >significant security concern," Osiecki said.
> > >
> > > On the net: http://www.tsa.gov
> > > Copyright © 2002, The Associated Press
> > > -end article-
> > > -
> > > -iNFoWaRZ
> > > Now who is more of a threat to your freedom?
> > > a. Bin Laden
> > > b. Saddam
> > > c. Bush and Homeland Security
> > >
> > > Dump the USA/Patriot Act
> > > Sign the Petition:
> > > Immediate and Total Repeal of the USA/Patriot ACT Petition
> > > http://www.petitiononline.com/sabene/petition.html
> > >
> > > Fight the New World Order and do your part to take back our country!
Join
> >the InfoWars Network at http://infowars.net
> > >
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a

Re: [CTRL] "Selective Memri"

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Prudy L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 9:16 AM
Subject: [CTRL] "Selective Memri"


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Selective Memri

And your point is.?

Memri has never been less than totally accurate in its translations.
It doesn't make up lies like the Arab press does. It doesn't alter in any
way
what the Arab press writes.

They are smart enough to know that the best propaganda is truth.

Joshua2

>
> Brian Whitaker investigates whether the 'independent' media institute that
> translates the
> Arabic newspapers is quite what it seems
>
> Monday August 12, 2002
> The Guardian
>
> Quote:  For some time now, I have been receiving small gifts from a
generous
> institute in the
> United States. The gifts are high-quality translations of articles from
> Arabic newspapers
> which the institute sends to me by email every few days, entirely
> free-of-charge.
>
> The organisation that makes these translations and sends them out is the
> Middle East
> Media Research Institute (Memri), based in Washington but with
> recently-opened offices in
> London, Berlin and Jerusalem.
>
> Its work is subsidised by US taxpayers because as an "independent,
> non-partisan, non-
> profit" organisation, it has tax-deductible status under American law.
>
> Memri's purpose, according to its website, is to bridge the language gap
> between the west
> - where few speak Arabic - and the Middle East, by "providing timely
> translations of Arabic,
> Farsi, and Hebrew media".
>
> Despite these high-minded statements, several things make me uneasy
whenever
> I'm asked
> to look at a story circulated by Memri. First of all, it's a rather
> mysterious organisation. Its
> website does not give the names of any people to contact, not even an
office
> address.
>
> The reason for this secrecy, according to a former employee, is that "they
> don't want
> suicide bombers walking through the door on Monday morning" (Washington
> Times, June
> 20).
>
> This strikes me as a somewhat over-the-top precaution for an institute
that
> simply wants to
> break down east- west language barriers.
>
> The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by
Memri
> for translation
> follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of
> Arabs or they in some
> way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease.
> Unquote.
>
> Apparently it is not only Greeks bearing gifts that we need to beware of.
> Prudy
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups
with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> 
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>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] SNET: Deconstructing Hispanic Anti-Semitism j2

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Party of Citizens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] SNET: Deconstructing Hispanic Anti-Semitism


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Maybe it has to do with Hispanics holding pro-Christian beliefs while
> "Semites" hold anti-Christian beliefs. Easy to understand, eh?
> As easy to understand as the proverbial taco in front of the face.
>
> POC

Is that you brainfarting here Poley?
Are you STILL ALIVE? Why?
Don't you have something better to do?

With just the tiniest application of suicide,
YOU COULD MEET JESUS!
Now isn't that more appealing than arguing
with Jews about religion? Really Poley.

I only have your best interest at heart.

Your pal,
Chuck U. Farley
(J2)


>
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Archibald Bard wrote:
>
> > ->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List
> >
> > Deconstructing Hispanic Anti-Semitism
> > Posted 7/24/2002
> > By Daniel Santacruz

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] New documentary evidence points to an Israeli connection to 9/11

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Hey Shannon. I was REALLY sorry to hear that your mentor Bill Pierce
died. What will you do now? I know original thinking is out of the question.

I see this as a sign from god that you should convert and move to Israel.

Then you can finally be on the side THAT WILL RULE THE WORLD!!
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Sorry, got carried away there.
Joshua2

=

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:29 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] New documentary evidence points to an Israeli connection
to 9/11


-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 7/26/02 10:22:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> t be an ass – the post did not defend Sharon (despite your oh so clever
edit
> ), and the target, as you well know, has the death of children on his
hands
> as well.

So the TARGET has nine deaths on his hands when it's a Palestinian who's the
target?? I see how this game is played...um hum, all so very clear now! It's
a classic double standard!

Bill.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] *Nation* Watering their booze

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "thew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] *Nation* Watering their booze


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> I don¹t see how ramming a plane into the WTC would stop the building of a
> pipeline in Afghanistan. Assuming everything in the book was true, I don¹t
> see how anyone could expect that particular action would lead to the
result
> they wanted. It doesn¹t add up.

I think that the idea was to start a war between the Islamic world
and the West where the West would not be successful in establishing
itself in the region.

Don't forget that the key was getting Pakistan on " our " side when
it had always been the main supporter of Al-Quieda and the Talliban.

The US gambled that there would be no Clash of Civilizations at that time.
They were right.

But it aint over yet.

Joshua2

> on 7/24/02 3:51 AM, Alamaine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > From http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0230/cotts.php
> >
> > Press Clips
> > by Cynthia Cotts
> > Laundering the 'Truth'
> > 'The Nation' Defuses a French Bombshell
> > July 24 - 30, 2002

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [ctrl] Socialism at work: ...3,2,1,0 - The self destruction of the NWO.

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "M.A. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [ctrl] Socialism at work: ...3,2,1,0 -
The self destruction of the NWO.


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> MJ
>  The NWO has NOTHING to do with capitalism.

Your an idiot.

> Jim
> When using the word "capitalism" it should be modified
> by an adjective. There are several kinds of capitalism
> which is merely the accumulation of capital.
> MJ
> Nope.
> Capitalism is an economic system void of government
> intervention.

On which planet?

> Jim
> There is state capitalism, e.g. socialism where the state
> accumulates and owns the capital.
> MJ
> This is correctly, as you cite, a version of socialism.
>
> Jim
> There is monopoly capitalism where private individuals with
> the connivance of government amass huge amounts of
> capital.
> MJ
> This too is a variety of socialism.

But NOT a variety of Capitalism?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
>
> Jim
> Finally there is free enterprise capitalism where capital
> is accumulated based on the entrepeneurship and effort
> of individuals.

...who steal the benefits of other people's labor.
Where this is not the case, there is nothing wrong with it.
The minute you profit from someone else's work, you are
a thief and a parasite.

THIS is the basis of all Capitalism.

> MJ
> Capitalism.
>
> Regard$,
> --MJ
>
> There is simply no other choice than this: either
> abstain from interference in the free play of the
> market, or to delegate the entire management of
> production and distribution to the government.
> Either capitalism or socialism: there exists no
> middle way. -- Ludwig von Mises

This is totally stupid and absurdly, obviously wrong.
Everywhere in the world, this is not the case.
Ludwig is still dead isn't he MJ?

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] LAX Shooting: Daniel Pipes: A 'work dispute' at LAX?

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] LAX Shooting: Daniel Pipes: A 'work dispute' at LAX?


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 7/9/02 7:10:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > By Daniel Pipes
>
> Daniel Pipes...what a buffoon.
>
> Bill.

YOU should have half the brains this buffoon has.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] THE MEANING OF JENIN

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Israel will do just fine. That's because they are the Chosenites and god
likes
them better. Always has.
Quite simple really. Just watch.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Joshua2


- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:33 PM
Subject: [CTRL] THE MEANING OF JENIN


http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html";>http://www.antiwar.com/j
ustin/justincol.html



April 22, 2002

THE MEANING OF JENIN
Is Israel still part of the West?

Jenin – http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/wb/jenin.html";>the
name is now a http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_194/1940
913.stm">synonym for the http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=286934
">brutality of the Israeli war
machine, and for http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cache:nlJu_1huWWIC:www.msnbc.com/news/7
38491.asp+jenin+masada&hl=en">the heroism of the Palestinian people as
they seek to defend
themselves against a merciless assault. The Israelis and their amen corner
aren't going to spin their way out of this one, and they know it. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,251-268735,00.html";>Here's
Janine di Giovanni in the London Times:

"The refugees I had interviewed in recent days while trying to enter the
camp
were not lying. If anything, they underestimated the the carnage and the
horror. Rarely, in more than a decade of war reporting from Bosnia,
Chechnya,
Sierra Leone, Kosovo, have I seen such deliberate destruction, such
disrespect for human life."

Using civilians as human shields, the Israelis went on a rampage of
vengeance
and bloodlust that only ran its course when the streets of Jenin were
running
with blood – not only the gore of fighters, as the Israelis are now
claiming,
but that of innocent civilians wantonly murdered. Here's Marie Colvin, of
the
Times, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/670151/posts";>tracking down the
horrific truth. Apparently, she had only to –
literally – follow her nose:

"The first medical teams allowed into the Jenin refugee camp last week
followed the chickens. Human senses were overwhelmed by the devastation and
the stench of death, but the birds were not distracted. They were hungry.
Two
rusty-colored fowl pecking away at a bundle in the street drew a Red Cross
team to the remains of Jamal Sabagh.

"He wasn't really recognizable to an untrained eye. His body had been lying
there for more than a week. The Israeli army had banned ambulances from the
camp for 11 days, and neighbors were too terrified to go to him."

"Tank tracks led to his body, over it and onwards through the mud. What had
once been a young man was rotting flesh mingled with shredded clothing,
mashed into the earth. One foot was all that looked human."

THE HOMICIDE OFFENSIVE

Oh, can't you just hear Bill Bennett and his fellow Israel Firsters trying
to
justify this atrocity? After all, Sabagh was a terrorist, a potential
suicide
bomber, a fanatic bent on the destruction of Israel, and was killed in the
course of what the IDF calls a "battle." Except that Sabagh wasn't a
fighter.
A diabetic too ill to flee, he was also fearful that he might be mistaken
for
a fighter if he left his house. So he stayed – definitely a mistake:

"Two days later, he left his house when the Israelis yelled over megaphones
that they were going to blow it up. He walked, directed by soldiers in
armoured personnel carriers, with other men to Seha Street at the centre of
the camp, carrying his bag of medicines. He joined the crowd. Soldiers
yelled
at him to take off his shirt, then his trousers. He clung to his bag of
medicine as he tried to unbuckle his belt, and he was slow. The soldiers
shot
him, friends say."

The editorially pro-Israel Telegraph was http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F04%2F1
1%2Fwmid111.xml">equally damning, with one story
headlined "http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F04%2F1
5%2Fwmid115.xml">Horror Stories from the Siege of Jenin." Summary
executions,
including the murder of young children, vicious beatings of women, and a
complete disregard for the elementary rules of war, marks the Israelis'
"Operation Defensive Shield" – what a name! – as the devilish work of
homicidal maniacs. Why else would the IDF have bulldozed houses, without
warning, while whole families were still in them? This was the Homicide
Offensive, meant to deliver a death blow to the Palestinian nation. But
swiftly burying the bodies under tons of rubble wasn't deep enough: as Nahum
Barnea, whom the Telegraph describes as Israel's leading newspaper
commentator, put it:

"If Israel does not find some way to give them a dignified burial, the
bodies
will bury Israel."

http://sudeten.bizland.com/Sudetenland1a.htm";>SUDETEN PALESTINE

Barnea recognizes that the main front in the war for a Greater Israel is not
on the West Bank, but in the West Wing – and in the West generally. In the
pr

Re: [CTRL] Benjamin Freedman Speaks: A Jewish Defector Warns America.

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "William Shannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Benjamin Freedman Speaks: A Jewish Defector Warns
America.


> In a message dated 4/14/02 1:49:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > Who the fuck is Benjamin Freedman?
>
> Figures that you wouldn't know.
> I have a copy of his famous letter to Dr. David Goldstein, LL.D. in m
> possession dated 10/10/54. It's really quite enlightening. You ought to
find
> a copy.
>
> Bill.

I know exactly who he is. So I say again-Who the fuck is Benjamin
Freedman?

Just cause you find some convert anti-Jew Jew, doesn't mean that
what he says is true.

What it does usually mean is that racist schmucks like you latch onto
them like like a Lampray on a fish anus.

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] The camp that became a slaughterhouse

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Yup. Life is sure tough when you support the longest running terrorist
regime
( after the IRA ) in the world, and your glorious leader is the grand daddy
of
all terrorists Old Uncle Yassir. And you brainwash your kids to become mass
murderers. And you set up your bomb factories and arms caches and training
areas IN MIDDLE OF YOU MOST DENSELY POPULATED AREAS

Sure is tough.

Joshua2
==
- Original Message -
From: "Jei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 7:23 AM
Subject: [CTRL] The camp that became a slaughterhouse


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=284823
>
> The camp that became a slaughterhouse
> By Justin Huggler
> 14 April 2002
>
> A woman with her leg all but ripped off by a helicopter rocket, the
> mangled remains hanging on by a thread of skin as she slowly bleeds to
> death. A 10-year-old boy lying dead in the street, his arm blown off and
> a great hole in his side. A mother shot dead when she ran into the
> street to scream for help for her dying son. The wounded left to die
> slowly, in horrible agony, because the ambulances were not allowed in to
> treat them.
>
> A terrible crime has been committed by Israel in Jenin refugee camp, and
> the world is turning a blind eye. Colin Powell, the US Secretary of
> State, visited the scene of a suicide bombing that murdered six Israelis
> in Jerusalem, but he did not visit Jenin, where the Israelis admit they
> killed at least 100 Palestinians. The Israel army claims all of the dead
> were armed men, that it took special care to avoid civilian casualties.
> But we saw the helicopter rockets rain down on desperately crowded
> areas: civilian casualties could not have been prevented.
>
> The Israeli army sealed off the entire area around Jenin yesterday,
> arresting journalists who ventured into it. That is because they have
> something to hide in Jenin: the bodies.
>
> The Israeli army has told the Israeli courts that it will not start
> burying the bodies until Sunday. But there are abundant eyewitnesses who
> say they have already seen the soldiers piling the bodies in mass
> graves. Hiding the bodies is what Slobodan Milosevic did in Kosovo.
>
> Either way, the Palestinians are not allowed to bury their own dead,
> because Israel does not want the world to see what happened inside Jenin
> refugee camp. The grieving have no way of knowing where to find the
> bodies of those they have lost.
>
> For nine days, Jenin camp became a slaughterhouse. Fifteen thousand
> Palestinians lived in a square kilometre in the camp, a packed warren of
> narrow lanes. Thousands of terrified civilians, women and children,
> cowered inside their homes while the Israeli helicopters rained down
> rockets on them and tanks fired shells into the camp.
>
> The wounded were left to die. The Israeli army refused to allow
> ambulances in to treat them, which is a war crime under the Geneva
> Conventions. The Red Cross has publicly said people have died because
> Israel blocked the ambulances. Slobodan Milosevic is on trial in the
> Hague for breaking the Geneva Conventions, while Ariel Sharon shakes
> Colin Powell's hand for the television cameras. The Geneva Conventions
> are in tatters in Israel.
>
> The Israeli authorities may be able to hide the evidence, but they
> cannot silence the stories that have been pouring out of those who
> managed to escape the carnage in the camp. These stories cannot be
> verified yet, but there are scores of them, and many agree in details.
> Fikri abu al-Heija was one of those who came out of the carnage in the
camp.
>
> "At the beginning the soldiers came and surrounded the camp with tanks,"
> he says. "There were two Apache helicopters. A rocket hit our house ?
> they were concentrating the rockets on the houses. All the windows were
> broken by the explosions. All you could hear was explosions. When the
> rocket hit the house, everybody gathered together on the lower floors. A
> woman was with us from the second floor who had had her leg almost cut
> off by the rocket. It was just hanging on by a little piece of skin. We
> saw the ambulance coming for her but the soldiers stopped it."
>
> Six days after the attack, Mr abu al-Heija was captured by the soldiers.
> "They made us take off our clothes and tied us in groups of five with
> metal wire. As we were walking through the camp we saw demolished
> houses, burning houses, bodies in the street. Every 10 or 20 metres
> there was a body. I recognised some. One was a cousin of mine. His name
> was Ashraf abu al-Heija."
>
> The Palestinians have been writing all the accounts like Mr abu
> al-Heija's down: they are not going to allow what happened at Jenin to
> be covered up. The Independent on Sunday has seen these meticulous
> handwritten notes, of which several copies have been made. There are
> records of everybody wh

Re: [CTRL] Benjamin Freedman Speaks: A Jewish Defector Warns America.

[Nurev Ind]

Who the fuck is Benjamin Freedman? 
 
Joshua2
 
===
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Staffan Enbom 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:46 
  AM
  Subject: [CTRL] Benjamin Freedman Speaks: 
  A Jewish Defector Warns America.
    
  Benjamin Freedman Speaks: A 
  Jewish Defector Warns America. 
  By Benjamin H. Freedman    
  (1961)    
  

  Benjamin H. Freedman was one of the most intriguing and 
  amazing individuals of the 20th century. Mr. Freedman, born in 1890, was a 
  successful Jewish businessman of New York City who was at one time the 
  principal owner of the Woodbury Soap Company. He broke with organized Jewry 
  after the Judeo-Communist victory of 1945, and spent the remainder of his life 
  and the great preponderance of his considerable fortune, at least 2.5 million 
  dollars, exposing the Jewish tyranny which has enveloped the United States. 
  Mr. Freedman knew what he was talking about because he had been an insider at 
  the highest levels of Jewish organizations and Jewish machinations to gain 
  power over our nation. Mr. Freedman was personally acquainted with Bernard 
  Baruch, Samuel Untermyer, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Joseph Kennedy, 
  and John F. Kennedy, and many more movers and shakers of our times. This 
  speech was given before a patriotic audience in 1961 at the Willard Hotel in 
  Washington, D.C., on behalf of Conde McGinley's patriotic newspaper of that 
  time, Common Sense. Though in some minor ways this wide-ranging and 
  extemporaneous speech has become dated, Mr. Freedman's essential message to us 
  - his warning to the West - is more urgent than ever before. - K.A.S. 
  In 1946 he founded the League for Peace and Justice in Palestine. Arnold 
  Forster, a high official of the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith or ADL, 
  in his 1988 autobiography Square One, called Benjamin Freedman an affluent, 
  apostate, self-hating Jew. The magazine Commentary (published by the American 
  Jewish Committee) for February, 1955, referred to him as Jewish anti-Semite 
  Benjamin Freedman. Freedman himself stated in 1954: 
  
"The word anti-Semitism is another word which should be eliminated 
from the English language. [The word] anti-Semitism serves only one purpose 
today. It is used as a smear word. When so-called or self-styled Jews feel 
that anyone opposes any of their objectives they discredit their victims by 
applying the word anti-Semite or anti-Semitic through all the channels they 
have at their command and under their control. I can speak with great 
authority on that subject. Because so-called or self-styled Jews were unable 
to disprove my public statements in 1946 with regard to the situation in 
Palestine, they spent millions of dollars to smear me as an anti-Semite 
hoping thereby to discredit me in the eyes of the public who were very much 
interested in what I had to say. Until 1946 I was a little saint to all 
so-called or self-styled Jews. When I disagreed with them publicly on the 
Zionist intentions in Palestine I became suddenly Anti-Semite No. 1." 

  Benjamin H. Freedman was in truth a defector from the forces which have 
  been working to destroy our civilization. 
  
      
  
  Contents. 
Zionists Rule the 
US 
The First World 
War 
Stalemate in 1916. 
Zionist Offer to get USA into the War 
USA Railroaded into World War 
I after Balfour Declaration 
Versailles
Effect on Germans when 
they understood Jewish Activity 
Freedman says World War 
I was started against Germany 
German Camps in 
1933
Germans fought Jewish 
Control
1933: Jews Declare Sacred 
War (and Trade War) on Germany
Reichskristallnacht 
and Rearmament
1961: Nuclear War? For 
Israel ? 
Secrecy (e.g. 1916 
Zionist deal with USA) can happen again 
History of 
'Jews' 
Kol Nidre: Evidence of 
Disloyalty 
George Washington's 
Vision 
      
Zionists Rule 
the US 
Here in the United States, the Zionists and their 
co-religionists have complete control of our government. For many reasons, too 
many and too complex to go into here at this time, the Zionists and their 
co-religionists rule these United States as though they were the absolute 
monarchs of this country. Now you may say that is a very broad statement, but 
let me show you what happened while we were all asleep.  
[Back to start]  [ Back to Table of 
Contents]    
The First World War. 
What happened? World War I broke out in the summer of 
1914. There are few people here my age who remember that. Now that war was waged 
on one side by Great Britain, France, and Russia; and on the other side by 
Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey. 
Within two years Germany had won that war: not only won 
it nominally, but won it actually. The German submarines, which were a surprise 
to the world, had swept all the convoys from the Atlantic Ocean. Great Britain 
stood there without ammunition for her soldiers, with one we

Re: [CTRL] Israel repeating mistakes of apartheid rulers

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "flw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Israel repeating mistakes of apartheid rulers


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> > The Jews built a prosperous, first-world democracy in the desert, which
> > bloomed and was fruitful.  The Arabs did what Arabs everywhere have
> >done and set up a kleptocracy with fabulous wealth for a privileged few
> and >squalor or the vast majority.
>
> Israel was founded as a European imposed artificial colony that enjoys
> 'prosperity"only because of massive (100's of BBBillions) in US taxpayer
> subsidies and armament.

Over half that money is a transfer from US tax money to US arms
manufacturers.

Secondly, Israel's econiomy is about 70 billion $, and it receives 3 bil
from the US. They don't need US money. It's a wealth transfer scheme
for US corporations done by the State Dept. Israel is only one of MANY
countries where this is played out. Especially the combined ARAB world
who get more arms than the Israelis do.

>The Israeli problem would have been solved if
> we had just divided up the BBBillions among all the European - Israelis
> and made them all millionaires. They could have retired to Florida leaving
> the land to the original owners.

And who might that be genius??? Surely you don't think it's the
Palestinians'
do you?

> > And what was once a wealthy First-World country has descended into
> >chaos and poverty, now the murder and rapine capital of the world, soon
> >to be depopulated by AIDS.
>
> South Africa was a 'first world country' only for the white minority. For
> the black majority it was always a third world poverty stricken place
> with most of the people living in tin shacks. The only 'cure' for AIDs
> in South Africa (and most poor countries) is protected sex. South
> Africa has never had a sufficient medical care infrastructure that could
> provide complicated medical treatment to most of its citizens.
>
> > "If Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, Jim Baker and the Supreme Court hadn't
> > tampered with the results, Al Gore would be president, George Bush would
> be
> > back in Austin and John Ashcroft would be home reading Southern Partisan
> > magazine."  Terry McAuliffe, Democratic National Chairman
>
> Anyone that thinks this is important has no rational opinion to offer.
> Bush, Clinton, Gore - what the hell is the difference???
> flw

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] FW:I am Proud of my Jewish Heritage

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

This crap below is not written by a Jew. It looks like a sophomoric
attempt to piss of Xtians. I've seen it before. It's probably put out by
some Arab outfit or neo-nazis. It's really obvious and targeted at
their constituency who is terminally dumb.

Joshua2
===

- Original Message -
From: "Staffan Enbom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 4:54 PM
Subject: [CTRL] FW:I am Proud of my Jewish Heritage


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Leah Feinstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 4:28 AM
> >Subject: I am Proud of my Jewish Heritage
>
>
> >A friend of mine wrote me and said that there are Christians on
> >this
> >website, http://www.blessedcause.org/ - who do not like Jews
> >and are
> >writing bad things about Jews. Well I just had to come here and
> >respond.
>
> >First of all let me say that Jews are wonderful people.
>
> >In my opinion, Jews make America a better place in a 1000
> >different ways.
>
> >My friend told me that Jews have been attacked in this forum by
> >a Christian Right-winger and he is wrong, wrong, wrong.
>
> >Jews are not the CANCER OF AMERICA.
>
> >It is Christians who are the CANCER OF AMERICA.
>
> >CHRISTIANS ARE THE REAL NAZI'S IN MODERN AMERICA.
>
> >For example, look at how much Christians hate *homosexuals.
>
> * http://100777.com/homosexuality.htm
>
> >But Jews show love towards homosexuals, not mean spirited
> >hate like Christians. Jews want homosexuals to have all the civil
> >rights that are afforded to heterosexuals, including the right to
> >marry and adopt children and share health insurance through
> >one spouses job.
>
> >Jews know that Adolf Hitler was a Christian and we look at what
> >he did. Don't say that he was a *Catholic and therefore he was
> >not a Christian, we have heard that one too many times.
> >The truth is that we need to have more Jews in America and
> >less Christians.
> >The truth is that Hollywood, the ACLU and the Jewish Left have
> >made America a better place by fighting the evil Christian Right.
>
> * http://100777.com/pope00.htm
>
> >For instance, if it were not for Jews and Jewish influence in
> >politics, there would be almost no gun laws on the books. Can
> >you imagine America with no gun control laws? The Jewish Left
> >has proudly fought to get reasonable gun control laws passed
> >and I am sure that most good Christians support gun control
> >laws, don't you?
>
> >If you are Jewish I know you agree with me that Jews have
> >made America a better place. And if you are a REAL Christian
> >who is tolerant towards homosexuals and people of other
> >religions, I know you also agree with me that the Jewish Left has
> >helped America to become the great nation she is today.
> >Did you know that Adolph Hitler was a Christian? My Rabbi
> >proved it with quotes right from the mouth of Hitler himself. That
> >is why Jews are 100% dedicated to trying to destroy Christianity
> >in America. We look at the destruction of Christianity as the
> >salvation and safety of Jews in America. If you want to see the
> >Adolph Hitler Christian quotes, I will search for them on the
> >Internet and post them.
>
> >But make no mistake, Christians have tried for 2000 years to
> >destroy the Jews. They have try to convert us by persuasion
> >and by force. They have tortured us and subjected us to
> >Inquisitions and chased us out of nation after nation, century
> >after century. This is a war and we Jews are going to win
> >because the Christian Right does not even know that we are at
> >war with them. This truly is a war and we Jews are going to win
> >because the head in the sand escapist Christian Right is stupid
> >when compared to the brilliant long term strategists who are
> >leading the organizations in the Jewish Left.
> >This is a real war and we Jews are going to win because we are
> >coming in under the radar using stealth technologies of *mind
> >control via the media and the popular culture. Just try to tell the
> >average guy on the street anything that I am telling you and he
> >will laugh in your face because we have him in the palm of our
> >hand and he does not even realize that he is a "mind-numbed
> >robot" incapable of independent thought. We are almost in total
> >control. It won't be long now. At this point in time our power and
> >control is so strong that we no longer have to hide what we are
> >doing because the soporific masses have been lulled to sleep
> >by their TV's and they will never wake up in time to stop us. We
> >are out in the open now, confident that we cannot be stopped.
>
> * http://100777.com/brainwashing.htm
>
> >My Dad was Jewish and my mom was Catholic, so technically I
> >am not a Jew, but I identify with the Jewish side of my family. I
> >attend synagogue weekly and I plan to dedicate my life to
> >helping Hollywood and the ACLU to destroy Chri

Re: [CTRL] [ctrl] opposition to Israel is motivated by anti-Semitism / Christian theology

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Party of Citizens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] [ctrl] opposition to Israel is motivated by
anti-Semitism / Christian theology


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Please explain to us how it is that you, as an atheistic jew have a right
> of return to Ancient Israel, under the "Law of Return".
> POC
>

Because we have modern Israel on the same spot, and we
initiated the law of return for Jews.

Not complicated is it?

If you can wrest away that piece of real estate and hold it, then
YOU can initiate a law of return for phony Identity wananbees.

Thats how it goes see.

J2

> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Nurev Ind wrote:
>
> > - Original Message -----
> > From: "Party of Citizens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Nurev Ind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ctrl] opposition to Israel is motivated by anti-Semitism /
> > Christian theology
> >
> >
> > How much Antichristism is rooted in YOUR theology?
> > POC
> > =
> > I dont have a theology. I'm an atheist.
> >
> > J2
> > ==
> > On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Nurev Ind wrote:
> >
> > > Melanie Phillips says the Archbishop of Wales is among Churchmen
worried
> > > that opposition to Israel is motivated by anti-Semitism rooted deep in
> > > Christian theology
> > >
> > > The Spectator (UK)  23 March 2002
> > >
> >
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2002
> > > -03-23&id=1580&searchText
> > >
> > > It was one of those sickening moments when an illusion is shattered
and an
> > > ominous reality laid bare. I was among a group of Jews and Christians
who
> > > met recently to discuss the Churches' increasing public hostility to
> > Israel.
> > > The Jews were braced for a difficult encounter. After all, many
British
> > Jews
> > > (of whom I am one) are themselves appalled by the destruction of
> > Palestinian
> > > villages, targeted assassinations and other apparent Israeli
overreactions
> > > to the Middle East conflict.
> > >
> > > But this debate never took place. For the Christians said that the
> > Churches'
> > > hostility had nothing to do with Israel's behaviour towards the
> > > Palestinians. This was merely an excuse. The real reason for the
growing
> > > antipathy, according to the Christians at that meeting, was the
ancient
> > > hatred of Jews rooted deep in Christian theology and now on widespread
> > > display once again.
> >
> >
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups
with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om
>

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to th

Re: [CTRL] America and Israel: You and Me against the World

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Tenorlove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] America and Israel: You and Me against the World


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> > America and Israel: You and Me against the World
> > by Mohamed Khodr
> >
> > "You and Me Against the World" is the title of a wonderful romantic
> > song by
> > Gladys Knight and the Pips
>
> AHEM it was Helen Reddy who performed this song.

Don't bother. This is how the Arab Press works.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] This This Guy is Really a Moslem???

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

It's been a long time, but you always inspire me Saba.
You're such a fucking moron. You get dumber and dumber
every month.

Joshua2

- Original Message -
From: "Mermaid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] This This Guy is Really a Moslem???


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Can you post a photo of this guy please?
> The Mermaid xxx
> - Original Message -
> From: "saba" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:17 PM
> Subject: [CTRL] This This Guy is Really a Moslem???
>
>
>
> Think this guy is really a Moslem and oh so many names.   Now for whom,
> does this creep work?  Why is he so afraid to be shipped off to America?
> He maintains he will return the same way he would be sent here - sounds
> familiar, right?
>
> This guy is no Muslim - this guy is just a hired killer like the others.
> Now who kills in such a manner and who executes judgment in such a
> manner.   Somehow I imagine Johnny Rosselli found in an oil drum off the
> coast of Florida, legs chopped off he was custom fit to the barrel.   He
> was to testify before the Assassination committee - now Hoffa's body
> never was found, but Rosselli' surfaced.
>
> But this man is AFRAID to come to America.   Why?   He has a big mouth
> but even these poor programmed suicide bombes do not scream and yell -
> for you see this man, this guy who used code name Rubaiya (righth out of
> Rubaiyat) will be exposed for what he is.
>
> But then it seems, have we as of late known anything good to come out of
> England or Israel?   These two deserve each other - we do not.
>
> And as for the TwinTowers?   Well Danny Pearl was the sacrificial
> lamb.ritual murder Hollywood style..strange not one person not
> one Jew came forward and offered to pay his ransom.   Not one.  The so
> powerful Wall Street Journal and Dow - not one dimefor nobody bought
> Danny Pearl.
>
>  Osama bin Laden pulled off the Twin Tower's Job?   Just ask - cui bono,
> cui bono, cui bono?
>
> This man whom they call "the mastermaind" looks like a fag or cross
> dresser when you take good look at him but note ohis photographs have
> been "touoched upon" and we are not permitted to see his face.and
> then we have John Walker Lindh with his phoney french accent and of
> course this Reid - what the hell he is is something straight out of the
> nut house...saba note)
>
> OSaba
>
>
> Country Sites|Professional Products|About Reuters
>
>
> HOMENEWSMARKETSQUOTES
> SEARCH  SymbolCompanyKeyword
>
> Top NewsWorldBusinessInternetTechnologyScienceSportsEntertainmentOddly
> EnoughPoliticsHealth
>
>
> Pearl Kidnap Suspect Remanded, Threatens U.S.
> March 12, 2002 07:34 AM ET
> Email this articlePrinter friendly version Reuters PhotoBy Aamir
> Ashraf
>
> KARACHI, Pakistan (Reuters) - The suspected mastermind of the kidnapping
> of American reporter Daniel Pearl threatened on Tuesday to make the
> United States pay dearly if he was extradited from Pakistan to face
> charges.
>
> British-born militant Ahmed Saeed Omar Sheikh, commonly known as Sheikh
> Omar, had to be gagged by police as he emerged from a Pakistan remand
> court shouting "Allahu Akbar" and "Down with America."
> (What a bunch of crap here - whoever is picking up this guy's tab should
> come up with something that is not so obviously overdone.seems like
> he takes the fall but will he lay himself doon and dee for his henchmen?
> saba note)
>
> Omar is accused by Pakistani authorities of organizing the kidnapping of
> Pearl in January while The World Street Journal reporter was researching
> a story on Islamic militants.
>
> Although his body has never been found, his kidnappers released a
> graphic video showing Pearl being murdered.
>
> Washington wants Omar extradited to face charges in the U.S., but
> Islamabad has said it will only consider the move once any Pakistan
> trial was complete.
>
> A defiant Omar threatened to make the United States pay if that
> happened.
>
> "Omar told the judge that if he is sent to the U.S., then he will return
> back in the same way as he was returned from India," Raja Qureshi,
> advocate-general for Sindh province, told reporters in the provincial
> capital Karachi.
> (Note the double talk here - the guy is sending message - saba note)
>
>
> "He told the judge that America would suffer if he is extradited."
>
> Sheikh Omar was freed from an Indian prison in 1999 along with two other
> Islamic militants in exchange for the passengers of an Indian airliner
> hijacked to the southern Afghan city of Kandahar.
> Tuesday, the Karachi court remanded Sheikh Omar and another suspect,
> Sheikh Adil, in police custody for a further 10 days. The two men are
> among four suspects being held in connection with the case.
>
> "The judge had granted further remand until March 22 and told the
> prosecutors that it is the last remand he will grant," Khawaja Naveed,
> the defense l

Re: [CTRL] Boycott Mel Gibson's "We Were Soldiers

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Euphorian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Boycott Mel Gibson's "We Were Soldiers


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On 5 Mar 2002 at 11:11, thew wrote:
>
> > War films always do well when the right is in power.
> > Welcome to the zeitgeist.
>
> Like *Saving Pvt Ryan*?

More like -" Saving Pvt Enterprise."

J2

>
> A<>E<>R

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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Boycott Mel Gibson's "We Were Soldiers

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "RevCOAL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Boycott Mel Gibson's "We Were Soldiers


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> >Why did they do this? Randall (Pearl Harbor) Wallace--producer, director
> >and screen writer--could have easily ended the movie as he began it. The
> >movie began with a short segment of a deadly ambush on a French column in
> >the same
> >valley ten years earlier; it should have ended with at least a passing
> >reference to the dying that happened after Mel Gibson's character left
the
> >battlefield. The audience would have perhaps left the theater with a much
> >different taste in their mouths, and a much more accurate understanding
of
> >the historical truth. However, apparently Mr. Wallace was more
> >interested in a little flag waving, and wanted to send the audience home
> >with a patriotic buzz.
>
> Doesn't anyone else find the timing of the release of all of these
> jingoistic flag-wavers a tad suspicious, considering that it takes at
least
> 3 years to produce a movie?
>
> One wonders how/why Hollywood decided back in 1997/98 that 'patriotic'
> movies would suddenly become money-makers starting in late 2001...
>
>
> Jun

It sure seems that way. But they have always done this. It may take a year
to write a script, but they have vaults full of all types of scripts. It
probably
doesn't take much for a movie factory to swing into action producing crappy
jingoistic war movies to empty the pockets of  brainless robots who
respond to " patriotism " the way that Pavlov's dogs responded to the dinner
bell.

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Global Warming: Socialisms Trojan Horse

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "John Wallace" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Global Warming: Socialisms Trojan Horse


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> So true.
>
> Greens are like watermelons -- green on the outside
> and red on the inside.
>

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. That's so funny! Try this one genius.
What's you on the outside, and dead on the inside?

Green is not socialism moron. Green is EVERYTHING.

Fortunately most people in the world have enough brains to
understand that their very existance depends on the good
functioning of the natural environment.

And yes... environmentalism in some form WILL be the idea
and primary cause of the extinction of Capitalism. But that's
because capitalism is THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE FORCE TO THE
ENVIRONMENT in the world at this time, and more folks come
to understand this every day. Since most people are poor and
don't have ANY vested interest in a system which only serves the
rich and the greedy who desperately want to be rich, it's obvious
that Capitalism is on the way out.

You and Johnson should submit your names to the " Darwin's"
list for consideration.

Enjoy it while you can,
Joshua2

>
>
> --- "M. A. Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > ~~for educational purposes only~~
> > [Title 17 U.S.C. section 107]
> >
> > Global Warming: Socialism's Trojan Horse
> > by Eric Englund
> >
> > On February 14, 2002, President Bush provided
> > details for
> > his plan to combat global warming. The cornerstone
> > of his
> > plan is to promote voluntary reductions in
> > greenhouse gas
> > emissions. Naturally, environmentalists were
> > outraged that
> > President Bush refused to adhere to the Kyoto
> > Treaty. It
> > is President Bush's contention that the Kyoto
> > protocol would
> > cost nearly 5,000,000 jobs in the U.S. alone. Of
> > course,
> > environmentalists claimed that there is a bigger
> > picture
> > here. All people, especially those living in
> > industrialized
> > countries such as the U.S., must sacrifice in order
> > to win
> > the universal struggle against global warming. As we
> > have
> > seen over the past three decades, environmentalists
> > have
> > succeeded in eroding property rights in the United
> > States in
> > order to protect Mother Earth as they see fit (i.e.
> > through
> > the Clean Water Act, through the Endangered Species
> > Act,
> > through ridiculous wetlands legislation, through air
> > quality
> > laws, etc). Whether or not President Bush
> > understands this,
> > the real struggle is between liberty and
> > totalitarianism.
> > For if environmentalists succeed in gradually taking
> > away
> > our private property rights, then a free market and
> > liberty
> > cannot exist. Thus, it is my contention that the
> > struggle
> > against environmentalism is actually a struggle for
> > liberty
> > (using the classical liberal definition).
> >
> > Undoubtedly, environmentalists will take exception
> > to being
> > called illiberal socialists (but I repeat myself).
> > Perhaps
> > there are those of you who are alarmed about global
> > warming
> > and sympathize with the environmental/green
> > movement. My
> > response is for you to be careful with whom you
> > associate;
> > which leads me to provide the following quote from
> > Dr. George
> > Reisman's magnum opus Capitalism:
> >
> >   ... it should not be surprising to see hordes of
> > former
> >   Reds, or of those who otherwise would have become
> > Reds,
> >   turning from Marxism and becoming the Greens of
> > the
> >   ecology movement. It is the same fundamental
> > philosophy
> >   in a different guise, ready as ever to wage war on
> > the
> >   freedom and well-being of the individual.
> >
> > So who are these former Reds who have converted to
> > Green
> > Socialism? One excellent example is Mikhail
> > Gorbachev. Mr.
> > Gorbachev is now the president of Green Cross
> > International
> > (a non-governmental environmental organization).
> > Among the
> > many issues with which Green Cross International has
> > become
> > involved, global warming is right at the top of its
> > list.
> > Gosh, when Mikhail Gorbachev, Ronald Reagan, and
> > Margaret
> > Thatcher became so chummy in the mid-1980s, I never
> > once
> > heard the Soviet dictator express concern about the
> > environment.
> > Clearly, Mr. Gorbachev has identified
> > environmentalism as a
> > Trojan horse capable of resurrecting socialism on a
> > global
> > scale.
> >
> > How can I say that about Mikhail Gorbachev? Didn't
> > he bring
> > glasnost (freedom of speech) and perestroika
> > (economic and
> > political reforms) to the Soviet Union? Indeed he
> > did. Yet,
> > these were means to his end of trying to save Soviet
> > Communism
> > and, therefore, to save his absolute and unspeakable
> > power
> > (that brought human misery to millions).
> >
> > Perhaps I am being too harsh on Mr. Gorbachev? To
> > this

Re: [CTRL] Netanyahu Says Arafat Must Go

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Prudence L. Kuhn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Netanyahu Says Arafat Must Go


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 2/19/02 8:00:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> << Netanyahu, 52, has been speaking throughout the United States and
Israel,
> and
>  has criticized Sharon for stopping short of what Netanyahu believes is
the
>  only way to end terror attacks against Israelis — the removal of Arafat.
>>
>
> Wasn't that over his having stolen a lot of official gifts?  The guy is a
> sleaze.  Prudy

Hew really is a sleaze Prudy. You finally got one right.
He's just like Clinton.
Keep up the good work.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] GLOBAL WARMING OR GLOBALONEY?

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Steve Wingate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 2:27 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] GLOBAL WARMING OR GLOBALONEY?


> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Would you care to provide a source for this quotation, or are we to belive
this
> is your own words. I suspect the source is connected to a 'scientific
advisory
> committee' funded by the oil industry.
>
> Steve

I'll help you out Steve.
Look into the work of John Hamaker.
I have posted this same hypothesis to this list
several times.

Yes there is an Ice Age comming. And YES! It
begins with with a period of global warming.

This would not be hard to grasp if we all weren't
brought up in Western / Christian / Greek culture
where Dualism holds sway.

>
> On 19 Feb 02, at 19:15, Nakano Nakamura wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > GLOBALWARMING OR GLOBALONEY?
> > THE FORGOTTEN CASE FOR GLOBAL COOLING

There is no contradiction here.
Dump " Dualism."
It's only " complexity for dummies ."
The natural world does not opperate under stupid
simplistic philosophy.

Joshua2
> > Cooling? Global refrigeration instead of Global
> > barbecuing? You bet. And there's a heck of a lot more
> > solid scientific evidence that what the world is
> > facing is the onset of a new ice age than there is
> > behind the very fragile global warming theory.
> > Up until the mid-Seventies there was general agreement
> > among researchers, who studied such arcane signs of
> > the far distant past as sedimentary deposits on the
> > ocean floor, that sooner or later a new ice age was in
> > the cards for this planet. Even the CIA signed on to
> > the idea that the iceman cometh.
> > The idea that an ice age was approaching was based on
> > history, not hysteria -- the motivating force behind
> > global warming studies. And what history taught
> > paleoclimatological scientists engaged in what is
> > known as quaternary research, is the incontrovertible
> > fact that the earth has experienced a long series of
> > ice ages occurring as regular as clockwork -- 100,000
> > years of glaciation followed by 10-to-12,000 years of
> > interglaciation.
> > There is, they maintained, no reason to believe that
> > what appears to be an immutable law of nature has
> > somehow been miraculously repealed and the cycle of
> > glaciation and interglaciation ended.
> > No reason, except for political expediency.
> >
> > Here's a sample of the kind of thing that was being
> > discussed back in the mid-seventies by that part of
> > the scientific community that dealt with the
> > geological history of climate changes:
> > "The present interglacial interval -- which has now
> > lasted for about 10,000 years -- represents a climatic
> > regime that is relatively rare during the past million
> > years, most of which has been occupied by colder,
> > glacial regimes. Only during about 8 percent of the
> > past 700,000 years has the earth experienced climates
> > as warm or warmer than the present.
> > "The penultimate interglacial age began about 125,000
> > years ago, and lasted for approximately 10,000 years.
> > Similar interglacial ages -- each lasting 10,000 plus
> > or minus 2000 years and each followed by a glacial
> > maximum -- have occurred on the average every 100,000
> > years during at least the past half-million years.
> > "During this period, fluctuations of the northern
> > hemisphere ice sheets caused sea level variations of
> > the order of 100 meters." (Understanding Climate
> > Change, published by the National Academy of Sciences
> > in 1975 -- page 181).
> > On page 189 the question was asked: "When will the
> > present interglacial [period] end?
> > "Few paleoclimatoligists would dispute that the
> > prominent warm periods (or interglacials) that have
> > followed each of the terminations of the major
> > glaciations have had durations of 10,000 plus or minus
> > 2000 years. In each case, a period of considerably
> > colder climate has followed immediately after the
> > interglacial interval.
> > Since about 10,000 years have passed since the onset
> > of the present period of prominent warmth, the
> > question naturally arises as to whether we are indeed
> > on the brink of a period of colder climate."
> > "The question remains unsolved."
> > A study prepared for the 95th Congress in 1978 agreed
> > with the National Academy of Sciences position as
> > explained in the above-quoted study. The document
> > Weather Modification: Programs, Problems, Policy and
> > Potential warned:
> > "In geological prospective, the case for cooling is
> > strong ... If this interglacial age lasts no longer
> > than a dozen earlier ones in the past million years,
> > as recorded in deep sea sediments, we may reasonably
> > suppose the world is about due to slide into the next
> > ice age."
> > The only question remaining is exactly when and how
> > glaciation will begin.
> > Remember, what we are dealing with here is historic
> > evi

Re: [CTRL] Terror war shifts to Lebanon, Iran

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

"Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 2/8/02 3:55:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> <<
>  Abu Zubeidah, one of bin Laden's five top lieutenants and a leading candidate
>  to be his successor, has been pinpointed hiding in Lebanon by Israeli
>  military intelligence, according to DEBKA sources. >>
>
> Where would we be without Israeli military intelligence?  Prudy

What you mean " we " Kemosabe?

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Pilger Attacked For Exposing "Kosher Conspiracy"

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Party of Citizens wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Maybe this dude from oz is right. Unless the Kosherites can come up with
> the Deed to the Holy Land and proof that they are the beneficiaries, this
> return to the Holy Land thing must be bogus, ie a conspiracy. Or could
> 5,000,000 people migrate into that region displacing millions of
> Palestinians and chalk it up to ignorance?
> POC

Are you an Indian Poley? If you're not, then pack the fuck up and go back to
where YOUR ancestors hatched from.

Nobody needs needs your approval for anything. The Jews  have Israel because
won it and can defend it. That's about the bottom line. Much as you don't like it,
there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

And that's the way it will stay. No one needs the bible as a deed. You white Christian
devils didn't need the bible to steal 3/4 of the world.

Since god likes us better than you, he let us take the land against overwhelming odds.
So take it up with him if he'll talk to you. I know for a fact that he thinks you're
a demented asshole.

Who am I to argue???

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] LOOKIN' FOR LOVE IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Saba wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Yes, Saba is a woman and I once saw a picture of Bill Shannon and his
> beautiful blonde wife - he is very handsome and she is very elegant.
>
> Now Joshua2 I can imagine - little chub cheeked fatso sitting on his
> little behind on a comuter monitoring the militias..you should be so
> handsome as Bill Shannon.
>
> OSaba
>
> And Irish too.

And how do you know that genius? Did you ever see me?
Did you ever see a picture of me?
Do you even know anyone who knows me?
Or do you come these conclusions the same way you do about everything else
you bable about?

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] LOOKIN' FOR LOVE IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES

[Nurev Ind]

William Shannon wrote:
In a message
dated 2/7/02 9:04:05 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 
It's
so beautiful that you feel compelled and comfortable enough with your listmates
to share the
depth and breadth of all your wonderful emotions. We all, and especially
I, just can't tell you enough, how your feelings are so
meaningful,
profound, and thought provoking.

Well well,
look who's talking.
Isn't this
the fellow who is king of the snippy and profane retort? The guy who calls
"listmates" Nazis, assholes, and whatever else comes to his mind?
The one
who piles on Saba, a woman, and calls her nasty names?
Yeah, I
thought that was you.
Bill.
 

Saba is a WOMAN?
 

[CTRL] Mirror mirror on the wall, who was the poorest sleazy scumbag of them all?

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

O'Neill, Sen. Byrd in Fiery Exchange
 Thu Feb 7, 6:22 PM ET

 By ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer

 A budget hearing exploded into a battle over humble beginnings
between a lecturing senator and a treasury secretary whose eyes
 flashed — and grew moist — with raw emotion.

Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill said later those weren't
tears in his eyes, but "fire."

During the Senate Budget Committee hearing
Thursday, an angry Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., and

O'Neill engaged in a remarkably bitter exchange for nearly 15 minutes.

At several points, Byrd waved President Bush's new budget,
which used a picture of Gulliver tied down

by Lilliputians to criticize congressional constraints on decision-making by
federal agencies.

"I just want to remind you, Mr. Secretary,
that a lot of us were here before you came," said Byrd, 84.
 "And with all due respect to you, you're not Alexander Hamilton,"
the nation's first treasury secretary.

 O'Neill, 66, paused to gather himself at the witness table,
then answered in a voice quivering with indignation.

 "I've dedicated my life to doing what I can to get rid of
rules that limit human potential," he said. "And I'm not going to stop."

 Byrd repeatedly said that he, and not O'Neill, a former
chairman of Alcoa, had been elected by voters.

 "They're not CEOs of multibillion-dollar corporations,"
Byrd said of the voters. "They can't just pick up the phone and call a
 Cabinet secretary. In time of need, they come to us, the people come to us."

 O'Neill, who grew up poor in St. Louis, Mo., snapped back:

 "I started my life in a house without water or electricity.
So I don't cede to you the high moral ground of not knowing what life is
 like in a ditch."

 "Well, Mr. Secretary," Byrd responded, "I lived in a house
without electricity, too, no running water, no telephone, a little wooden
 outhouse." He was raised by his aunt and uncle in West Virginia's coal country.

 O'Neill appeared teary at several points.

 On the subject of regulations tying down government, he
pointedly cited the unjustness of "rules that said, 'Coloreds cannot enter
 here.'"

 Although O'Neill did not mention it, a younger Byrd once
belonged to the Ku Klux Klan, which he later renounced.

 The blunt and sometimes impolitic treasury secretary has
had other confrontations with members of Congress, although none as
 passionate as Thursday's.

 He once characterized a Republican economic stimulus
package as "show business," prompting one GOP congressman to call for
 his resignation. Bush stood by him.

 Byrd took umbrage at O'Neill's earlier complaints to a business
group, when he said some rules were "like the Lilliputians tying us
 to the ground."

 Byrd said he believed those remarks were aimed at a Senate
rule that bears his name. The Byrd rule limits items that can be put on
 a tax bill.

 O'Neill stood by his comments but said he was complaining
more broadly about rules that inhibit progress.

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] LOOKIN' FOR LOVE IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES

[Nurev Ind]

William Shannon wrote:
In a message
dated 2/7/02 1:23:25 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 
LOOKIN'
FOR LOVE IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES

I hate
country "music" but always liked that song...the Johnny Lee version...oh,
and Ann Coulter is a psycho-twit.
Bill.

It's so beautiful that you feel compelled and comfortable enough
with your listmates
to share the depth and breadth of all your wonderful emotions.
We all, and especially I, just can't tell you enough, how your feelings
are so
meaningful, profound, and thought provoking.
Oh yes. The Johnny Lee version of Looking for Love really sucks. The
best version
was done by Buckwheat.
Joshua2
 
 
 

Re: [CTRL] U.S. goal: Keep arms from Palestinians

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

"Prudence L. Kuhn" wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 2/5/02 2:40:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> << U.S. goal: Keep arms from Palestinians
>  Plans to cut off Arafat from fresh weapons provided by 'axis of evil' >>
>
> Gee, shades of Bosnia.  This will solve the problem.  If they can't shoot
> back, the Israeli can celebrate every occasion with a "turkey shoot."  Prudy

Ignorance is bliss huh Prudy? I guess you don't know that Israel armed Arafat's
40,000
forces as part of the Oslo agreement. The other part of that agreement was that
they would not buy military weapons. That was the deal see. They broke that deal
immediatly as they did
every other part of Oslo.

Now they will pay.

The more they arm, the more will die. Is that what you want?

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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Om

[CTRL] What? No drug war? Columbia, Afghanistan, Iraq. How many will die for oil profits?

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

 Original Message 
Subject: REUTERS: U.S. Seeks to Help Colombian Troops Defend Pipeline
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:50:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Colombian Labor Monitor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Organization: ?
To: undisclosed-recipients:;


  C O L O M B I A   L A B O R   M O N I T O R
http://www.prairienet.org/clm

For updates throughout the day visit the most
thorough and complete Colombian news service
http://www.prairienet.org/clm

[NOTE: Long gone are the days when U.S. military intervention
in Colombia was packaged as "counter-narcotics aid." In the
post-September 11 militaristic climate, the petroleum cartel
that runs the White House has little problem re-packaging
U.S. intervention as "counter-terrorist aid," and showing
the true beneficiaries of Washington's munificence: the oil
companies. But, then, we knew this all along, didn't we?  -DG]

REUTERS

Tuesday, 5 February 2002

U.S. Seeks to Help Colombian
   Troops Defend Pipeline


By Jason Webb

BOGOTA - The United States wants to train and equip Colombian troops to
defend a key oil pipeline, a senior U.S. official said on Tuesday,
unveiling plans to turn U.S. aid more directly against rebels fighting a
38-year-old war.

Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Marc Grossman said the Bush
administration would ask Congress for $98 million to strengthen a
Colombian army brigade to guard the 490-mile Cano Limon pipeline, whose
oil field is operated by U.S. firm Occidental Petroleum Corp.

The aid, which would likely include helicopters, comes on top of already
massive U.S. assistance limited to wiping out cocaine and heroin
production in the Andean nation.

Grossman said helping protect the Cano Limon -- a favorite target of
leftist rebels -- was part of Washington's commitment to help Colombians
create a "terror-free democracy."

"The war on terrorism will require every bit of state policy and every
tool available to the state," Grossman told a news conference in Bogota as
he wrapped up a three-day visit by a top-level U.S. delegation.

The Bush administration sent to Congress on Monday a fiscal year 2003
budget that included funds for training a second anti-drug brigade as part
of a 14 percent increase in anti-narcotics spending in the Andean region.
Of the $731 million proposed for the regional effort, $439 million was for
Colombia.

Wary of getting dragged into a conflict that has claimed 40,000 lives in
the past decade, the United States has not granted President Andres
Pastrana's request for authorization to use U.S. anti-narcotics aid
against guerrillas and far-right paramilitaries in non-drug operations.

On Tuesday, Grossman said the new aid will be modeled on training provided
for a Colombian army anti-narcotics brigade, whose progress has pleased
Washington.

RIGHTS GROUPS CALL FOR END TO U.S. AID

Washington-based Human Rights Watch called on Tuesday for the United
States to end military aid to Colombia because its armed forces have not
cut links with paramilitary outlaws.

Grossman said the U.S. government will study the report.

Keeping Cano Limon running will help Bogota fight the rebels at a critical
time for struggling 3-year-old peace talks and provide money for funding
its own war effort. Each day the country's second-largest oil pipeline is
out of action, the Colombian government loses $2.3 million from oil sales
alone.

The 120,000-barrel-a-day duct, which is currently not in operation due to
repairs, was bombed 170 times last year and has already been bombed at
least 13 times in 2002.

It is targeted by both the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia -- known
by the Spanish initials FARC -- and the smaller National Liberation Army,
or ELN, as part of extortion campaigns. The two rebel groups are dubbed
"terrorist organizations" by the United States.

The United States also wants to ensure oil supplies in the Andean region
-- its second largest source of oil imports outside the volatile Middle
East, officials said.

Copyright 2002 Reuters


* CLM-NEWS is brought to you by the COLOMBIAN LABOR MONITOR at *
*http://www.prairienet.org/clm *
*  and the CHICAGO COLOMBIA COMMITTEE  *
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*  To unsubscribe send request to Dennis Grammenos at  *
*   [EMAIL PROTECTED] *


http://www.ctrl.org/";>ww

Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Andrew Hennessey wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> does the Jewish historian Josephus

Josephus was a ROMAN historian who USED to be Jewish.
Everything he wrote is questionable. I don't think anyone considers him an
authority on religion though.

J2


> mention Sataniel in his section on angels
> in the History of the Jews ??
>
> andrew
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Nurev Ind" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Man on the Run wrote:
> >
> > > -Caveat Lector-
> > >
> > > BF>With due respect, Christians did not invent "Satan".  Pre-Christian
> Israelite
> > > texts, both Mesoretic and those not included in the Hebrew Bible, have
> mentioned
> > > the concept of the Satan.  Islam has also invoked the concept.  This
> concept also
> > > exists in other religions than those of the Abrahamic faith.  You are
> free to
> > > disagree with me, but please be accurate.
> > > Bates
> > >
> >
> > Satan is Christian. It is not Jewish at all though there may be
> discussions of
> > such a concept. In those days before science and rationalism, almost
> everyone's
> > world view was superstitious nonsense.
> >
> > Satan is the other major component of Christian Dualism which is based in
> > GREEK, not Judaic culture. Jesus is the all good god of goodness, and
> Satan is
> > the all bad god of evil. Y'know... good cop, bad cop.
> >
> > Thew is right to say that in order to take Satanism seriously, you must
> come
> > from a Christian superstitious mindset.
> >
> > Islam incorporated many ideas from both Judaism and Christianity. That's
> > why that have a Shaytan.
> >
> > Dualism is the simplest form of complexity. Philosophy light ( as in not
> heavy ).
> > Read " Dualism for Dummies " by Abbot and Costello. It's only two pages.
> >
> > Joshua2
> >
> > >
> > > thew wrote:
> > >
> > > > -Caveat Lector-
> > > >
> > > > just the concept "satanic" is a Christian concept. To think someone
> might be
> > > > a Satanist, you must first accept the belief system that Satan exists
> in.
> > > >
> > > > Satanism is a Christian sect ,perhaps a very fringe one, but a
> Christian
> > > > sect none the less.
> > > >
> > > > If I don't believe in Satan, calling me a Satanist doesn't have much
> > > > meaning.
> > >
> > --  - --- -- -
> --
> > > > --
> > > > Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like
> fire, it
> > > > is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should
> it be
> > > > left to irresponsible action.
> > > >
> > > > George Washington
> > > >
> > > > NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
> > > >
> > > > > From: "c." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:55:22 -
> > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> The inverted pentagram is an agreed upon Satanic symbol used by
> > > > > Satanists as
> > > > >> such.
> > > > >
> > > > > satanists... hmm...  anyone that doesn't belief that your christ
> chap is the
> > > > > son of god?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> > > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > > > ==
> > > > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
> propagandic
> > > > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
> > > > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
> > > > directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups
> with
> > > > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
> thought.
> > > > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of

Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Man on the Run wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> BF>Sir, have you not heard of the Azidi? (I believe I spelled their name correctly)
> They are Satan worshippers in the Muslim world.  They are acknowledged as such by
> Muslims, though do not seem to be as much opposed as their fellow monotheists in
> Israel.  They are acknowledged as Satan worshippers, and are not understood as such
> in a Christian context.  Thus my argument that we can discuss these things without
> recourse to "that is a Christian idea".  So what if it is a predominantly Christian
> idea?  Does that make it factually incorrect?

Probably so.

>
> As far as what Jews do or do not talk about, I find that a rather specious way
> to shut down debate.  "We do not talk about this" has been used to silence criticism
> of sexual abuse, slavery, torture, racism, and other evils.

Don't get carried away. No one is shutting anything down. I love talking religion. It's
usually the religionist who punks out because outside of personal belief, there's no
rational or even sensible defense of supernatural mumbo-jumbo.

> I am talking about it
> and that makes for one person at least.  So it is not discussed in some circles?
> That is a social fact.  Call it a "minchag", believing that it is simply giving evil
> more power.  That is an argument made, one that cannot be dismissed lightly, but it
> is not universally agreed to.  Rabbis have disagreed on many things.  Judaism does
> not speak with one voice on every issue.
> Bates

Judaism is also based on superstitious non-sense. And discussing how many angels
can dance on the head of a pin, or the origins of Satan or when the sun stopped in
the heavens so Joshua could defeat his enemy, are all equally ridiculous.

There is no real argument about Satan. There is no Satan, and you can't produce him
to demonstrate otherwise.

Joshua2

>
>
> thew wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > there was a Persian demon named shaitan.
> > there was an angelic presence by that name in the story of job,
> >
> > but in neither case was Satan THE great adversary of god, the number one
> > host of evil, an all powerful anti-god.
> >
> > to equate them because they are etymologically related is to paint with a
> > brush too broad to give meaning.
> >
> > Jews do not talk about Satanists. it makes no sense in the Jewish
> > mythological world view.
> > the Persians likewise have no "shaitan worship" that is analogous to what
> > Christians mean when they say "Satan worship"
> >
> > Satanists, in this context, is a Christian concept.
> > -- -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - -  - - -- --- -- - - -  - -- - - - --
> >  -- - -- -
> >
> > Never wear your best trousers when you go out to fight for freedom and
> > truth.
> >
> > Henrik Ibsen
> >
> > NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
> >
> > > From: Man on the Run <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:20:39 -0800
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
> > >
> > > -Caveat Lector-
> > >
> > > BF>With due respect, Christians did not invent "Satan".  Pre-Christian
> > > Israelite
> > > texts, both Mesoretic and those not included in the Hebrew Bible, have
> > > mentioned
> > > the concept of the Satan.  Islam has also invoked the concept.  This concept
> > > also
> > > exists in other religions than those of the Abrahamic faith.  You are free to
> > > disagree with me, but please be accurate.
> > > Bates
> > >
> > > thew wrote:
> > >
> > >> -Caveat Lector-
> > >>
> > >> just the concept "satanic" is a Christian concept. To think someone might be
> > >> a Satanist, you must first accept the belief system that Satan exists in.
> > >>
> > >> Satanism is a Christian sect ,perhaps a very fringe one, but a Christian
> > >> sect none the less.
> > >>
> > >> If I don't believe in Satan, calling me a Satanist doesn't have much
> > >> meaning.
> > >> --  - --- -- ---
> > >> --
> > >> Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it
> > >> is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be
> > >> left to irresponsible action.
> > >>
> > >> George Washington
> > >>
> > >> NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
> > >>
> > >>> From: "c." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:55:22 -
> > >>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>> Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >  The inverted pentagram is an agreed upon Satanic symbol used by
> > >>> Satanists as
> >  such.
> > >>>
> > >>> satanists... hmm...  anyone that doesn't belief that your christ chap is the
> > >>> son of god?
> > >>
> > >> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> > >> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER

Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Man on the Run wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> BF>With due respect, Christians did not invent "Satan".  Pre-Christian Israelite
> texts, both Mesoretic and those not included in the Hebrew Bible, have mentioned
> the concept of the Satan.  Islam has also invoked the concept.  This concept also
> exists in other religions than those of the Abrahamic faith.  You are free to
> disagree with me, but please be accurate.
> Bates
>

Satan is Christian. It is not Jewish at all though there may be discussions of
such a concept. In those days before science and rationalism, almost everyone's
world view was superstitious nonsense.

Satan is the other major component of Christian Dualism which is based in
GREEK, not Judaic culture. Jesus is the all good god of goodness, and Satan is
the all bad god of evil. Y'know... good cop, bad cop.

Thew is right to say that in order to take Satanism seriously, you must come
from a Christian superstitious mindset.

Islam incorporated many ideas from both Judaism and Christianity. That's
why that have a Shaytan.

Dualism is the simplest form of complexity. Philosophy light ( as in not heavy ).
Read " Dualism for Dummies " by Abbot and Costello. It's only two pages.

Joshua2

>
> thew wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > just the concept "satanic" is a Christian concept. To think someone might be
> > a Satanist, you must first accept the belief system that Satan exists in.
> >
> > Satanism is a Christian sect ,perhaps a very fringe one, but a Christian
> > sect none the less.
> >
> > If I don't believe in Satan, calling me a Satanist doesn't have much
> > meaning.
> > --  - --- -- ---
> > --
> > Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it
> > is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be
> > left to irresponsible action.
> >
> > George Washington
> >
> > NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew
> >
> > > From: "c." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:55:22 -
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Please, please begin a campaign
> > >
> > >
> > >> The inverted pentagram is an agreed upon Satanic symbol used by
> > > Satanists as
> > >> such.
> > >
> > > satanists... hmm...  anyone that doesn't belief that your christ chap is the
> > > son of god?
> >
> > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > ==
> > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> > directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
> >
> > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > 
> > Archives Available at:
> > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
> >  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> >  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl
> > 
> > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Om
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
> sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
> directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
> major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
> That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
> always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
> credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
>  http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Researc

[CTRL] Nobel Peace Prize - wadda joke.

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE IS A DISGRACEFUL JOKE!

Henry Kissinger (extended the Vietnam war 3 years. Chile.)
Yasser Arafat ( need one say more?)
Kim Dae Jung ( Corporate Dictator of S Korea)
Frederik Willem de Klerk ( racist )
United Nations Peace-keeping Forces ( Ha, ha, ha, ha. )
Mohamed Anwar al-Sadat, Menachem Begin (A dictator and a fascist )
George Catlett Marshall ( American archetecht of WWII )
Thomas Woodrow Wilson ( Racist warmonger )
Theodore Roosevelt ( Racist warmonger )

and now these clowns...


Bush, Blair nominated for Nobel Peace Prize

By DOUG MELLGREN
Associated Press

OSLO, Norway (February 4, 2002 12:45 p.m. EST) - Praised
for fighting terrorism and securing world peace, President
Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair have been nominated
for the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize, a Norwegian lawmaker announced
Monday.

Harald Tom Nesvik, a member of parliament from the right-wing
Party of Progress, said he has nominated the two leaders
who have been at the forefront of the war in Afghanistan.

"The background for my nomination is their decisive action
against terrorism, something I believe in the future will
be the greatest threat to peace," Nesvik said. "Unfortunately,
sometimes ... you have to use force to secure peace."

Nesvik has nomination rights as a member of a national legislature.

The Oslo-based awards committee accepts nominations postmarked
by Feb. 1, so proposals continue to arrive and a final number
is not expected until late in the month.

Last year, 136 individuals and groups were nominated. The
$943,000 prize was shared by the United Nations and its secretary-general,
Kofi Annan.

The committee keeps the names of nominees secret for 50 years.
However, those making nominations often reveal their choice.

The Sept. 11 terror attacks on the United States and the
aftermath were expected to influence this year's nominations,
because those events were too late to be considered in last
year's award.

Other Sept. 11-related nominations mentioned, but not confirmed,
include former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani and Guy
Tozzoli, an engineer who helped design the World Trade Center.

Also Monday, two Christian Democratic members of Norway's
parliament announced their nomination of the Salvation Army,
adding to a list that includes Rome-based Catholic group
Church of Sant'Egidio for peace and humanitarian efforts
and the Mission of Mercy humanitarian group for work in Latin
America.

The Nobel Prize winners are named in mid-October and the
awards are always presented on Dec. 10, the day their founder,
Swedish industrialist Alfred Nobel, died in 1896. The peace
prize is awarded in Oslo, and the others in Stockholm, Sweden.

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[CTRL] PEACE PROJECT JANUARY 2002 SURVEY

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

PEACE PROJECT JANUARY 2002 SURVEY

The Peace Index Project is conducted by the Tami Steinmetz Center for Peace
Research at Tel Aviv University, headed by Prof. Ephraim Yaar and Dr. Tamar
Hermann and executed by the Tel Aviv University's B. I. Cohen Institute.
Results are shown for 28-30 January 2002.

The survey details below covers the representative sub-sample of adult
Jewish Israelis

1. Do you believe or not believe that in the coming years there will be
peace between Israel and the Arabs?
Certain there will be peace 4.4% Think there will be peace 14.3%
In the middle 9.9% Think there will not be peace 28.8%
Certain there will not be peace 39.5% Do not know/no opinion 3.2%

2. In general, do you consider yourself a supporter or opponent of the
peace
process between Israel and the Arabs?
Greatly opposed 7.9% Considerably opposed 6.5%
In the middle 10.3% Considerably supportive 30.8%
Greatly supportive 43.1% Do not know/no opinion 1.4%

3. What is your opinion on the agreement that was signed in Oslo between
Israel and the PLO (Agreement of Principles)?
Heavily in favor 10.7% Considerably in favor 15.3%
In the middle 20.0%
Considerably opposed 14.1% Heavily opposed 32.3%
Do not know/no opinion 7.5%

4. Do you believe or not believe that the Oslo Agreement between Israel and
the PLO will bring about peace between Israel and the Palestinians in the
coming years?
Greatly believe 3.8% Considerably believe 7.5 Middle 11.5%
Considerably do not believe 20.6% Completely do not believe 50.0%
Do not know/no opinion 6.5%

5. What is your position regarding negotiations between Israel and the
Palestinian Authority?
Heavily in favor 27.0% Considerably in favor 32.1%
Considerably opposed 17.1% Heavily opposed 21.2%
Do not know/no opinion 2.6%

6. Do you believe or do not believe that negotiations between Israel and
the
Palestinian Authority will lead in the coming years to peace between Israel
and the Palestinians?
Greatly believe 8.3% Considerably believe 24.4%
Considerably do not believe 26.8% Completely do not believe 37.9%
Do not know 2.6

7. Do you believe or not believe that in the coming years there will be
peace between Israel and Syria?
Certain there will be peace 2.4% Think there will be peace 19.2%
In the middle 20.6%
Think there will not be peace 28.2%
Certain there will not be peace 23.4%
Don't know/have no opinion 6.2%

6. What is your position regarding support for a full peace treaty between
Israel and Syria in exchange for full withdrawal from the Golan Heights?
Greatly in favor 12.5% Considerably in favor 14.1%
In the middle 13.1%
Considerably opposed 15.5% Greatly opposed 40.3%
Do not know/have no opinion 4.6%

For all practical purposes, Israel has placed Arafat's headquarters in
Ramallah under siege and he cannot move freely in the territories of the
Palestinian Authority or go overseas.  In your opinion, what is the main
purpose of this move?
47.1% To pressure Arafat so that he will carry out real measures to end the
terror
33.1% To undermine his authority as head of the Palestinian Authority
13.4 Both to the same extent
06.4% Do not know

In your opinion can the siege bring about the realization of one or either
of these goal?

15.1% End terror
15.5% Break Arafat's authority
21.2% Both
39.7% Neither
08.5% Do not know

How would undermining the authority of Arafat as head of the Palestinian
Authority impact terror activity against Israel?
Increase 34.8% Decrease 17.5% No charge 39.0% Do not know 8.7%

How would undermining Arafat's authority as head of the Palestinian
Authority impact the chances of reaching a peace arrangement with between
Israel and the Palestinians?
Increase 22.3% Decrease 24.1% No change 44.5% Don't know 9.1%

Do you support or oppose continuing the policy of taking out [wanted
terrorists] by Israeli security forces?
Support a lot 44.9% Considerably support 28.1%
Considerably oppose 12.0% Oppose a lot 9.8%
Don't know 5.2%

In terms of Israel's interests, do you support or oppose killing Arafat?
Support a lot 11.0% Considerably support 10.4%
Considerably oppose 31.1% Oppose a lot 41.2%
Don't know 6.4%

Do you support or oppose that along with the pressure applied to Arafat and
the Palestinian Authority that Israel make efforts, to the extent possible,
to make the daily lives of the Palestinian population in the territories
easier?
Support a lot 33.9% Considerably support 31.1%
Considerably oppose 16.1% Oppose a lot 13.9%
Don't know 5.0%

The papers report from time to time about demeaning attitudes of soldiers
and Israeli security people towards Palestinian civilian in the
territories,
for example intentionally delaying them at checkpoints.  In your opinion,
do
such incidents occur frequently or infrequently?
Very frequently 14.4% Considerably frequently 29.7%
Considerably infrequently 26.1% Very infrequently 16.8%
Don't know 13.0%

If and when such incidents occur, in your opinion should the security
system
treat them with complete seriousness as if they were

Re: [CTRL] Antisemitic vs. Prosemitic means ?

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Party of Citizens wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Nurev Ind wrote:
>
> > Party of Citizens wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, inri wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > Correction-that's "how could ANY follower of Christ not be
> > > > > > antisemite?"
> > > >
> > > > christ was semitic.
> > > >
> > > > how do you reconcile this?
> > >
> > > I know what you are saying but that is not how the "Real Semites" like J2
> > > define the word. To them, even that Palestinian Imam with the shnozola
> > > which would be the envy of Klinger on "Mash" is an antisemite. Thus
> > > these "Real Semites" have coined the word to mean, "Those who are against
> > > us". What means "us"? "Us" means the Cult of Herod. Herod built Masada
> > > into a magnificent and powerful palatial centre and a last fortified
> > > retreat in case of all-out attack. That is exactly how his Edomite Nation
> > > used it when the Romans invaded. Much earlier the Romans had forced a
> > > merger of the Israelites and Edomites. Today the Edomite Army of Israel
> > > takes its oath of office at Masada under the new Herod, Sharon. The Real
> > > Israelites of 2,000 years ago took on the name "Christians" even though at
> > > first there were those like Saul/Paul who retained the identity as Jews
> > > and Israelites (in Paul's case the Tribe of Benjamin). Since Vatican has
> > > rejected Christ as the foundation of its faith, they have decreed that
> > > "antisemitism" is a grave sin. All it means is standing up for the True
> > > Israelite faith which is what Christ carried forward (eg in saying "I came
> > > only to find the lost sheep of Israel") and being "anti-" those who are
> > > against Christ and His teachings as are the people of the Cult of Herod.
> > > I can hear J2 gnashing his teeth all the way from here. The saga of bile
> > > and bullshit continues.
> > >
> > > POC'ster
> > > (Learned Elder of Zion)
> >
> > Saga of bile and bullshit is right Dr. Poley. Not even ONE point in the bullshit
> > above is either true or historical. Not even one.
> >
> > You can dazzle some of these clowns with your dizzying diatribes of demented
> > dumbness, but Poley you are a joke. There is not even ONE point which is
> > correct.
> >
> > You write more convincingly than Colleen, but she has an excuse. She's a moron.
> > You are just an inept propagandist.
>
> Dear FUC:
>
> Razzle, dazzle us with some of your cogent rebuttals. Just take it a point
> at a time instead of trying such a moronic, broad-brush put-down.
>
> POC
> (Learned Elders of Zion)

No thanks. We've been through this little game already. I'm not interested
in going through it again.

Chuck U.

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Colleen's Inane "Bible Code" (was; The New World OrderinBibleprop...

[Nurev Ind]

William Shannon wrote:
In a message
dated 2/1/02 9:29:54 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 
She's
a liar and a whack job. What's the point?

Since you're
SO opposed to the idea I'm willing to give it a second look...it can't
be all bad.
Bill.
(Who'd
buy a used car from Saba before a used CD from Zev/Josh/Billy Schwartz)

A nazi and a nutsie. You guys are quite a pair.
J2
 

[CTRL] "Axis of Just as Evil"

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

In Speech, Bush Calls Iraq, Iran and North Korea 'Axis of Evil" -- N.Y.
Times, 1/30/02

ANGERED BY SNUBBING, LIBYA, CHINA SYRIA FORM AXIS OF JUST AS EVIL

 Cuba, Sudan, Serbia Form Axis of Somewhat Evil; Other Nations Start Own
Clubs

   Beijing (SatireWire.com) — Bitter after being snubbed for membership
in the "Axis of Evil," Libya, China, and  Syria today announced they had
formed the "Axis of Just as Evil," which they said would be way eviler
than that  stupid Iran-Iraq-North Korea axis President Bush warned of
his State of the Union address.

 Axis of Evil members, however, immediately dismissed the new
 axis as having, for starters, a really dumb name. "Right. They
 are Just as Evil... in their dreams!" declared North Korean
 leader Kim Jong-il. "Everybody knows we're the best evils...
 best at being evil... we're the best."

 Diplomats from Syria denied they were jealous over being
excluded, although they conceded they did ask if they could
 join the Axis of Evil.

They told us it was full," said Syrian President Bashar
al-Assad.

"An Axis can't have more than three countries," explained Iraqi
President Saddam Hussein. "This is not my rule, it's tradition. In
World War II you had Germany, Italy, and Japan in the evil
Axis. So you can only have three. And a secret handshake.
Ours is wicked cool."

THE AXIS PANDEMIC

International reaction to Bush's Axis of Evil declaration was
swift, as within minutes, France surrendered.

Elsewhere, peer-conscious nations rushed to gain triumvirate status in
what became a game of geopolitical chairs. Cuba, Sudan, and Serbia said
they had formed the Axis of Somewhat Evil, forcing Somalia to join with
Uganda and Myanmar in the Axis of Occasionally Evil, while Bulgaria,
 Indonesia and Russia established the Axis of Not So Much Evil Really As
Just Generally Disagreeable.

With the criteria suddenly expanded and all the desirable clubs filling
up, Sierra Leone, El Salvador, and Rwanda applied to be called the Axis
of Countries That Aren't the Worst But Certainly Won't Be Asked to Host
the  Olympics; Canada, Mexico, and Australia formed the Axis of Nations
That Are Actually Quite Nice But Secretly Have Nasty Thoughts About
America, while Spain, Scotland, and New Zealand established the Axis of
Countries  That Be Allowed to Ask Sheep to Wear Lipstick.

 "That's not a threat, really, just something we like to do," said
Scottish Executive First Minister Jack McConnell.

 While wondering if the other nations of the world weren't perhaps
making fun of him, a cautious Bush granted  approval for most axes,
although he rejected the establishment of the Axis of Countries Whose
Names End in "Guay," accusing one of its members of filing a false
application. Officials from Paraguay, Uruguay, and Chadguay denied the
charges.

 Israel, meanwhile, insisted it didn't want to join any Axis, but
privately, world leaders said that's only because no one asked them.

Copyright © 2002, SatireWire.

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Colleen's Inane "Bible Code" (was; The New World Order inBibleprophecy)

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

RevCOAL wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> From: Saba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >So all these secret societies have it seems one common denominator -
> >they use the Bible as their Master Plan and many have a bible calendar,
> >but THE Calendar, the Master Plan, is the one I hae which was in a
> >Gideon Bible dated 1954..keyed from JFK murder right down to the
> >Twin Towers.   For a date and appointed time certain.
>

She's a liar and a whack job. What's the point?

J2

>
> Gee, Colleen, for at least the past two years some of us have demanded that
> you PROVE the efficacy of your so-called "Bible calendar code" by providing
> just ONE prediction BEFORE THE FACT...
>
> Now you claim that it predicted the destruction of the WTC towers on 9/11,
> yet not once did you even HINT of this BEFORE it happened...
>
> I could just as easily claim that the patterns caused by my car's oil leaks
> predicted the destruction of the WTC towers on 9/11, or that my collection
> of Dorothy Sayers' Lord Peter Whimsey mysteries contain a hidden code that
> predicted the JFK, RFK, and MLK assassinations...but unless I'm able to
> provide a prediction BEFORE an event against which the accuracy of my
> claimed source of prophecy can be judged, such claims would be just so much
> hogwash...
>
> ...as are YOUR claims regarding your so-called Bible Code
>
> You had a perfect opportunity to display its supposed power by warning us
> BEFORE 9/11 of the events that were due to happen on that date; so why
> didn't you, Colleen?
>
> June

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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Antisemitic vs. Prosemitic means ?

[Nurev Ind]

-Caveat Lector-

Party of Citizens wrote:

> -Caveat Lector-
>
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, inri wrote:
>
> > > > Correction-that's "how could ANY follower of Christ not be
> > > > antisemite?"
> >
> > christ was semitic.
> >
> > how do you reconcile this?
>
> I know what you are saying but that is not how the "Real Semites" like J2
> define the word. To them, even that Palestinian Imam with the shnozola
> which would be the envy of Klinger on "Mash" is an antisemite. Thus
> these "Real Semites" have coined the word to mean, "Those who are against
> us". What means "us"? "Us" means the Cult of Herod. Herod built Masada
> into a magnificent and powerful palatial centre and a last fortified
> retreat in case of all-out attack. That is exactly how his Edomite Nation
> used it when the Romans invaded. Much earlier the Romans had forced a
> merger of the Israelites and Edomites. Today the Edomite Army of Israel
> takes its oath of office at Masada under the new Herod, Sharon. The Real
> Israelites of 2,000 years ago took on the name "Christians" even though at
> first there were those like Saul/Paul who retained the identity as Jews
> and Israelites (in Paul's case the Tribe of Benjamin). Since Vatican has
> rejected Christ as the foundation of its faith, they have decreed that
> "antisemitism" is a grave sin. All it means is standing up for the True
> Israelite faith which is what Christ carried forward (eg in saying "I came
> only to find the lost sheep of Israel") and being "anti-" those who are
> against Christ and His teachings as are the people of the Cult of Herod.
> I can hear J2 gnashing his teeth all the way from here. The saga of bile
> and bullshit continues.
>
> POC'ster
> (Learned Elder of Zion)

Saga of bile and bullshit is right Dr. Poley. Not even ONE point in the bullshit
above is either true or historical. Not even one.

You can dazzle some of these clowns with your dizzying diatribes of demented
dumbness, but Poley you are a joke. There is not even ONE point which is
correct.

You write more convincingly than Colleen, but she has an excuse. She's a moron.
You are just an inept propagandist.

J2

http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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