Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- The concept of liberty was later extended to women, blacks and other minorities...but for years the Constitution was interpreted in such a way that the liberty of some of us (who now enjoy it today) was consistently and flagrantly denied. Britain outlawed slavery BEFORE the United States did. As far as Native Americans go, they were not considered citizens of this country during the nineteenth century... Suffrage for women...well, my grandmother was one of the ladies who fought for that... Black Americans? Jim Crow (the separate but equal doctrine) lasted well into the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties... So, in terms of "liberty," I think it is a matter of how these concepts are interpreted.. and if the laws of the land will be ENFORCED. Legislative bodies can pass laws that sound great...but if they aren't enforced, they are worthless.. On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, KA wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, William Hugh Tunstall wrote: I respectfully disagree with your idea that the nation was founded upon LIBERTY.first disagreement: Liberty for whom? White males? Blacks? Women? Native Americans? It WAS founded on liberty, albeit a flawed one... But what other country in 1776 (or 1783) gave social and political liberty to blacks, women, or native populations? At least the founding fathers gave us a document whereby we could peacefully and legally alter the government via the amendment process, so that we COULD at a later date include these populations in the electorate... And they gave us a document that spells out the peaceful and legal process whereby the electorate (thru their elected representatives) are able to remove officials in public office who are guilty of misconduct in office, including the President... June ! _ _ _ _ _ _` __ _ _ _ |_ . _ _ _ | -~*~- _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_) (_|| (/_(/_ | || )(_|/_) o /!\_| _| /%;@\ o/@,%\o /%;`@,\ o/@'%',\o '^^^M^^^` www.xs4all.nl/~klr *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- This is the same issue concerning the MidEast, India, and a few other places the Europeans "visited". Just think: Saddam might be saved from himself in like fashion. To coin a phrase: "History repeats itself"; or another, "For those who fail to study history are destined to repeat it." AER The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust -- : From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob : Date: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 11:18 AM : : -Caveat Lector- : : As far as "native populations" go, since I'm Native American, I find it : odd that European Americans assume that we needed YOU to give us our : rights to begin with. How glorious The land was initially ours...we : had our own religion...our own concepts of political and property : rights...(read of the Iroquois Confederacy for its influence on the : Constitution you esteem). DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- On Sat, 19 Dec 1998, Gerald Harp wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/19/98 12:15:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No, the Civil War was about States' Rights...slavery was a side issue, and Lincoln did NOT support the Union coming out with a diffinitive statement against slavery... Slavery was the issue of the civil war. Read McPherson. The States Rights stuff was used by the South to keep from having to argue the slavery question since they obviously were in a morally bankrupt position. The South used the States Rights argument again in the 1950s and 19960s to avoid the civil rights issue. It didn't work that time either. No, you're both wrong. Great Britain sent agents here to stir up the south. Britain wanted to divide and weaken her former colonies. I may have further info at my web site. I'll look around. Brian Redman | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.shout.net/~bigred/cn.html Editor-in-Chief| ---Phone: 217-356-4418 Conspiracy Nation | "The perfect slave thinks he's free." DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector-
On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
It is absolutely clear, June, that no one is going to change your
mind. Just as it was clear today, despite reasoned, impassioned
statements and even pleas from the Democrats for fairness and the
I listened to most of the debate on Pacifica Radio, and am watching it
right now on CSPAN...and don't know where all these 'reasoned' Democrats
of yours are...
'Impassioned', yes...but fanatical to the point of being cult followers,
ala Jonestown/Heaven's Gate...
They admit that Clinton lied and is guilty of misconduct of office, but
they don't want the constitutional process of impeachment to be
instituted, instead they bleat for a meaningless slap on the wrist...
So where does it go from here?
To a Senate trial...where it should be...
It did occur to me that a trial in the Senate might lead to
exoneration.
Indeed it might...but I doubt it...I think a lot of dirt is going to
shake out, some of which might fall on congressional members on both
sides of the aisle...so Clinton will not be completely exhonerated...
but that doesn't mean that there will be enough votes to remove him from
office...
But you could hear the deep division between people deeply committed
to social problems and social concerns that would be shelved in the
event of the Senate trial and the people who frankly don't give a
The Senate holds impeachment trials all the time (federal judges) and
life goes on...as it will when the president's trial commences...
If it broke down and we were thrust into a civil war, would you know
who to trust? Do you know which "militias" are not racist. Which are
not infiltrated and corrupt? Would you know who are the
real "patriots"?
Marilyn, you are the only one thinking in terms of a civil war...the rest
of us are quite willing to trust in the Constitutional processes...
Funny--the question of our time is who is "real."
Indeed, Marilyn, indeed ;-)
And all this questioning of who is "real" only makes things
absolutely surreal.
Sounds like you're a woman who is particularly 'in the know' on this
issue...care to tell us about it? ;-)
June
o .
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Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector-
On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
I think that we fought a terrible and bloody Civil War to end
slavery.
No, the Civil War was about States' Rights...slavery was a side issue,
and Lincoln did NOT support the Union coming out with a diffinitive
statement against slavery...
But neither the emancipationists nor the women's suffragists had to stage
a coup d'etat to gain the right to vote, they were eventually able to
gain that right thru legislative means...
June
o .
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artist: SheDragon/Spirit of the Night {ldb)
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/18/98 9:59:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you are implying we have 'Robed Masters'. Your words not mine. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/18/98 11:15:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that we fought a terrible and bloody Civil War to end slavery. And I doubt the suffragettes who fought for the women's vote thought the process was either reasonable or "peaceful." sno0wl Way to go, SnoOwl. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector-
Was it Acton who stated, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely" ? It
resembles prosecution of a war: adopt a plan and stick to it (or the
analogy could be based on a cookie recipe); make minor modifications as
required to suit to taste but basically it'll look the same at the
beginning as will at the end. I think this is the majority view: they
have their plan and they're sticking to it, sticking it to whomever the
plan applies. I can see the decision logic table now: "Did X occur?" "If
so, go to step 2; if not, abort {return to beginning}." I wonder how far
along they are ...
Vortex? Eye of the Storm? It's calm in there, isn't it? Start to move
out of it and they'll tell us to stay put where it's safe!!!
I think any feelings about the 'people' may be secondary (review the words
about D. Fox and 'innocent' casualties); as Newt and others have said, the
U.S. is a strong country and is able to withstand war and impeachment and
the holiday festivities. Is it Tim ("Cokie") Allen on his "Tool Time" show
who keeps pressing for 'more power' ? ... it fits the overall scheme of
bigger, better, faster -- buzz of POWER! Take the toys away and they get
pouty (see Newt).
AER
The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes
but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
--
: We do, indeed, live in interesting times. I wish I felt as confident
: as you that we could just "ride out" the storm. Why do I have the
: feeling that we will be pulled into the vortex by a Republican
: majority that has already expressed its deepest contempt for the
: majority of the American people.
:
:
:
:
:
: sno0wl
:
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- It's romantic to think that we fought a war to end slavery but, that was just an emotional "theme" to rally around. The Civil War was over economics pure and simple. Hilary = Together We Create Heaven on Earth [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Come join exploration - a discussion list dedicated to keeping up-to-date on new technologies, advancements in medicine, environmental concerns, 'conspiracy theories' and, of course, UFO stuff. Discussion is encouraged. Bashing and soapboxing will get you bounced off the list. To subscribe to exploration send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List Moderator: Hilary A. Thomas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, December 19, 1998 5:56 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/18/98 11:15:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that we fought a terrible and bloody Civil War to end slavery. And I doubt the suffragettes who fought for the women's vote thought the process was either reasonable or "peaceful." sno0wl Way to go, SnoOwl. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/19/98 12:15:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No, the Civil War was about States' Rights...slavery was a side issue, and Lincoln did NOT support the Union coming out with a diffinitive statement against slavery... Slavery was the issue of the civil war. Read McPherson. The States Rights stuff was used by the South to keep from having to argue the slavery question since they obviously were in a morally bankrupt position. The South used the States Rights argument again in the 1950s and 19960s to avoid the civil rights issue. It didn't work that time either. Jerry DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/19/98 11:43:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a message dated 12/19/98 12:15:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: No, the Civil War was about States' Rights...slavery was a side issue, and Lincoln did NOT support the Union coming out with a diffinitive statement against slavery... Slavery was the issue of the civil war. Read McPherson. The States Rights stuff was used by the South to keep from having to argue the slavery question since they obviously were in a morally bankrupt position. The South used the States Rights argument again in the 1950s and 19960s to avoid the civil rights issue. It didn't work that time either. Jerry June: Why do you bother? You can't educate the whole world. "There are none so blind as those who will not see." June DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- On 17 Dec 98 , Alamaine wrote: -Caveat Lector- Not to nose in nor to be imprudent, but: Ironically, whether the Congress or the people who (supposedly) put them there like it or not, the whole debate has raised the level of understanding about their government. I'm not sure anyone really intended for this to happen or is ready for the results, outcome, or conclusion. I liken it to a distilling process where all the ingredients -- including impurities -- are being precipitated out of the mass. I have never seen the government in so much chaos -- it's as if the ship of state has been caught in a typhoon and we're hoping someone knows how to steer it to calmer waters. Nonetheless, everyone's sailorness is being tested and new knowledge and skills are being gained at every tossing by the waves and every gust of wind. I imagine some will be unable to keep their bearings and some will swept overboard. Almaine, you write as if we're not all on this boat together, as if most of us are not locked in steerage and have no chance to contribute our sailorly skills. Someone else is at the wheel and they've made it clear they're not gonna take any advice. So, if the boat's going down. we're all gonna go down together. Personally, I think the guys ostensibly at the wheel need a course in navigation pronto. sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- On 17 Dec 98 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, we see now that there is no difference between d's and r's. Bush had a War for his interests in oil, and Clinton is having a War to draw attention away from the impeachment. Why didn't you want to impeach George Bush? Prudy GB's Desert Storm revolved around billions of dollars in personal profits.BC's Desert Fox revolves around a lie about being in a room with a young woman who wanted to be alone with him Why didn't we impeach George Bush? sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- William Hugh Tunstall wrote (with snippage): The Family Leave Act was an excellent idea. Also, the Clinton administration attempt to get a national health insurance program going. MJ: How is socialism compatible with a Nation founded upon LIBERTY, FREEDOM and an individual's RIGHT to his OWN life? Can you cite any Constitutional authority for this? It is unfortunate that so many are SCARED of these ideals. William Hugh Tunstall wrote (with snippage): But perhaps President Clinton's greatest contribution during the past eight years has been his willingness to insure that some of the more draconian social measures of the Republican party were not signed into law. MJ: Can you elaborate? I thought the Duopoly were pretty consistent with one another -- you have the 'well to the left Ds AND the just to the 'right' of them Rs (yet still 'well to the left'). Regard$, --MJ Our Unconstitutional Congress by Walter E. Williams Stephen Moore, director of fiscal studies at the Washington-based Cato Institute, spoke at Hillsdale College. His comments were published in Imprimus. Reading through his remarks, one can safely conclude that today's Washington politicians, compared to those of yesterday, are constitutional cowards and rogues. In 1794, James Madison, disapproving a $15,000 appropriation for French refugees said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." That Congress should heed the Constitution was forcefully restated two years later by Virginia's Congressman William Giles when he condemned a disaster relief measure saying it was neither the purpose nor the right of Congress to "attend to what generosity and humanity require, but to what the Constitution and their duty require." This kind of constitutional respect was also found in the White House. In 1854, President Franklin Pierce vetoed a bill to help the mentally ill, saying, "I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for public charity. . . . [and to approve such spending] would be contrary to the letter and the spirit of the Constitution and subversive to the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded." President Grover Cleveland vetoed hundreds of congressional spending bills because, as he often wrote, "I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution." The Constitution enumerates what Congress can do: establish Post Offices, raise and support an army and navy, declare war and conduct a few other activities related mostly to national defense. To my knowledge, the Constitution has not been amended to authorize Congress to spend money for farm subsidies, bailouts, Social Security, welfare, not to mention midnight basketball and tennis court and swimming pool construction. Congress has found ingenious ways to subvert constitutional limitations; one of them is the "interstate commerce clause." In a recent case before the U.S. Supreme Court, Justice Scalia asked the Justice Department's Solicitor General to name a single activity or program that our modern-day Congress might undertake that would fall outside the bounds of the Constitution. The stunned Clinton appointee could not think of any. The Framers would cringe at that response. The bottom line conclusion is that we have a corrupt Congress and White House aided and abetted by a derelict Supreme Court. While they do their mischief, we're being led down the road to serfdom. But what can we do about it? There are drastic measures suggested by people like Thomas Jefferson, who said, "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God." Jefferson added that, "The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." However, before we even think about drastic measures, we have to own up to the fact that politicians are a relatively small part of the problem. After all what would we do, as voters, to a congressman, like William Giles of yesteryear, who respected the Constitution and condemned fire relief payments because they exceeded congressional authority? What would we do to a President who took Franklin Pierce's position that there's no constitutional authority for public charity? We'd run them out of town on a rail. Our kind of Congressman or President is the person who "cares" and has the deepest contempt for constitution limitations. None of this means that we're going down the tubes as a great nation right away. After all when the Titanic struck that iceberg, everything was okay . . . for a while. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- MJ- I respectfully disagree with your idea that the nation was founded upon LIBERTY.first disagreement: Liberty for whom? White males? Blacks? Women? Native Americans? Socialism means what to you? We can spend an eternity parsing words...' I would only point out that these abstractions (capitalism, socialism, etc) are debatable terms.. On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, M. A. Johnson wrote: -Caveat Lector- William Hugh Tunstall wrote (with snippage): The Family Leave Act was an excellent idea. Also, the Clinton administration attempt to get a national health insurance program going. MJ: How is socialism compatible with a Nation founded upon LIBERTY, FREEDOM and an individual's RIGHT to his OWN life? Can you cite any Constitutional authority for this? It is unfortunate that so many are SCARED of these ideals. William Hugh Tunstall wrote (with snippage): But perhaps President Clinton's greatest contribution during the past eight years has been his willingness to insure that some of the more draconian social measures of the Republican party were not signed into law. MJ: Can you elaborate? I thought the Duopoly were pretty consistent with one another -- you have the 'well to the left Ds AND the just to the 'right' of them Rs (yet still 'well to the left'). Regard$, --MJ Our Unconstitutional Congress by Walter E. Williams Stephen Moore, director of fiscal studies at the Washington-based Cato Institute, spoke at Hillsdale College. His comments were published in Imprimus. Reading through his remarks, one can safely conclude that today's Washington politicians, compared to those of yesterday, are constitutional cowards and rogues. In 1794, James Madison, disapproving a $15,000 appropriation for French refugees said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." That Congress should heed the Constitution was forcefully restated two years later by Virginia's Congressman William Giles when he condemned a disaster relief measure saying it was neither the purpose nor the right of Congress to "attend to what generosity and humanity require, but to what the Constitution and their duty require." This kind of constitutional respect was also found in the White House. In 1854, President Franklin Pierce vetoed a bill to help the mentally ill, saying, "I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for public charity. . . . [and to approve such spending] would be contrary to the letter and the spirit of the Constitution and subversive to the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded." President Grover Cleveland vetoed hundreds of congressional spending bills because, as he often wrote, "I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution." The Constitution enumerates what Congress can do: establish Post Offices, raise and support an army and navy, declare war and conduct a few other activities related mostly to national defense. To my knowledge, the Constitution has not been amended to authorize Congress to spend money for farm subsidies, bailouts, Social Security, welfare, not to mention midnight basketball and tennis court and swimming pool construction. Congress has found ingenious ways to subvert constitutional limitations; one of them is the "interstate commerce clause." In a recent case before the U.S. Supreme Court, Justice Scalia asked the Justice Department's Solicitor General to name a single activity or program that our modern-day Congress might undertake that would fall outside the bounds of the Constitution. The stunned Clinton appointee could not think of any. The Framers would cringe at that response. The bottom line conclusion is that we have a corrupt Congress and White House aided and abetted by a derelict Supreme Court. While they do their mischief, we're being led down the road to serfdom. But what can we do about it? There are drastic measures suggested by people like Thomas Jefferson, who said, "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God." Jefferson added that, "The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." However, before we even think about drastic measures, we have to own up to the fact that politicians are a relatively small part of the problem. After all what would we do, as voters, to a congressman, like William Giles of yesteryear, who respected the Constitution and condemned fire relief payments because they exceeded congressional authority? What would we do to a President who took Franklin Pierce's position that there's no constitutional authority for public charity? We'd run them out of town on a rail. Our kind of Congressman or President is the person who "cares" and has the deepest contempt for constitution limitations. None of
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- William Hugh Tunstall wrote: I respectfully disagree with your idea that the nation was founded upon LIBERTY.first disagreement: Liberty for whom? White males? Blacks? Women? Native Americans? MJ: That of course was left up to the STATES to decide, though they were instructed regarding the MODEL for government in Article 4, section 4. Regard$, --MJ In the end more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free. -- Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector-
In reference to "myrmidons": I tend to think of myself as one who's just
buying or bought a season {lifetime} ticket to the event (watching the
'race') ... I would agree that there may be an objective to (exert, retain)
'influence' (over) the public ... but one must be able to look beyond the
stage set or what is made apparent to the casual viewer ... look at TV as
though you were one of the crew on the set ... a delving into the art of it
all rather than the illusory reality; seeing the mirrors rather than the
multiple reflections therein ...
AER
The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes
but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
--
: From: M. A. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
: Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 5:26 PM
:
: -Caveat Lector-
:
: Alamaine Ratliff wrote:
: Ironically, whether the Congress or the people who (supposedly)
: put them there like it or not, the whole debate has raised the
: level of understanding about their government.
:
: MJ:
: Are you certain it is NOT a 'race' to see who can 'instruct'
: the public on what they are to believe? We are a body politic
: of myrmidons for the most part.
:
: Regard$,
: --MJ
:
: It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people
: believe is true.
: -- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd
:
: DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
: ==
: CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
: screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid
matters
: and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
: frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor
effects
: spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
: gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
: be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
: nazi's need not apply.
:
: Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
:
:
: To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:
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:
: Om
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector-
I'll have to extend my metaphor into a 'fleet', where the flagship pretty
much leads and the rest of the ships, boats, watercraft in this political
regatta just follow along ... in this sense, no, we're not all on the same
vessel, but theoretically heading toward the same port of call ... once the
tempest hits, it's pretty much each vessel that must find it's own way to
calmer waters ... the 'someone' is indefinite; when it's a matter of sail
or sink, sailorliness can be found in the most unlikely of persons. This
would apply to Y2K survivalists, e.g. As a matter of fact, where are
Abbott Costello ("What's on first ...") ?
What's struck me in the last week is the sheer power the president has at
the same time when the House of Congress is preparing the political yardarm
or plank, led by a fellow who has an outstanding warrant for a similar but
perhaps lesser offense, who's fought to replace another fellow about to go
on walkabout. Then there's Lott ... listened to him today; didn't
understand a word he said ...
It's as though the sea anchor has been let out and everyone's just gonna
ride out the storm, checking the knots and wind direction every so often
.. I agree with Billio: it's like a fiction with a random plot ...
There was a movie some years back in which the main portion of the cast
would travel through time just to witness disasters -- as if on a tour.
Can't remember the name. It's like that: just hanging around to see what
the next plot twist will be, which disaster is next on the intinerary.
AER
The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes
but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
--
: From: Sno0wl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
: Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 4:00 PM
:
: -Caveat Lector-
:
: Almaine, you write as if we're not all on this boat together, as if
: most of us are not locked in steerage and have no chance to
: contribute our sailorly skills. Someone else is at the wheel and
: they've made it clear they're not gonna take any advice. So, if the
: boat's going down. we're all gonna go down together.
:
: Personally, I think the guys ostensibly at the wheel need a course in
: navigation pronto.
:
:
: sno0wl
:
: DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
: ==
: CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
: screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid
matters
: and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
: frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor
effects
: spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
: gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
: be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
: nazi's need not apply.
:
: Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
:
:
: To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
:
: To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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:
: Om
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- sorry for the delay in the response. so "the states" decided that certain human beings could be defined as property. This doesn't bother you, even just a tad bit? MJ, the problem is you do not have a keen sense of irony. They speak in terms of "liberty," yet they own human beings. They revere "property," yet they seize the property of the English sovereign. Have you ever been to Monticello? a beautiful place. and the same man who wrote so elegantly and beautifully about the rights of man could walk outside his door and behold the shanties of his black slaves Are you familiar with the story of Sally Hemmings? On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, M. A. Johnson wrote: -Caveat Lector- William Hugh Tunstall wrote: I respectfully disagree with your idea that the nation was founded upon LIBERTY.first disagreement: Liberty for whom? White males? Blacks? Women? Native Americans? MJ: That of course was left up to the STATES to decide, though they were instructed regarding the MODEL for government in Article 4, section 4. Regard$, --MJ In the end more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free. -- Edward Gibbon (1737-1794) DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, William Hugh Tunstall wrote: I respectfully disagree with your idea that the nation was founded upon LIBERTY.first disagreement: Liberty for whom? White males? Blacks? Women? Native Americans? It WAS founded on liberty, albeit a flawed one... But what other country in 1776 (or 1783) gave social and political liberty to blacks, women, or native populations? At least the founding fathers gave us a document whereby we could peacefully and legally alter the government via the amendment process, so that we COULD at a later date include these populations in the electorate... And they gave us a document that spells out the peaceful and legal process whereby the electorate (thru their elected representatives) are able to remove officials in public office who are guilty of misconduct in office, including the President... June ! _ _ _ _ _ _` __ _ _ _ |_ . _ _ _ | -~*~- _/_)(/_(_|/_)(_)| )/_) (_|| (/_(/_ | || )(_|/_) o /!\_| _| /%;@\ o/@,%\o /%;`@,\ o/@'%',\o '^^^M^^^` www.xs4all.nl/~klr *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- trea*son (noun) [Middle English tresoun, from Old French traison, from Latin tradition-, traditio active of handing over, from tradere to hand over, betray -- more at TRAITOR] First appeared 13th Century 1 : the betrayal of a trust : TREACHERY 2 : the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family I included this definition so there would be no misunderstanding of what treason is. In the United States we have no King or Queen although many believe all citizens are sovereign. My take on this is that a traitor is someone who, by whatever means would overthrow our government and/or the Constitution (rules for our government) or injure Americans by his acts or deeds. Rather than reword and repost several articles and take up a lot of my time Just follow the link below and read my posts on the CTRL archives. If you count each action or inaction of President Clinton it adds up to much more than twenty counts and has nothing to do with MonicaGate which only serves to divert attention from the real reasons President Clinton should be impeached. A HREF="http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A1=ind9811bL=ctrlD=0H=0 O=AT=1#6"CTRL archives -- November 1998, week 2/A Mr. Turnstall wrote: The Family Leave Act was an excellent idea. Also, the Clinton administration attempt to get a national health insurance program going. We're the only industrialized nation without a national health insurance program for its citizens.. Those businesses which do provide coverage for their employees have to pick up the tab for the businesses which don't...look at the fast food service industry...and the retail sector. But, of course, that idea was squelched by the usual special interests who control our political process.. Here you are stating that he didn't get his programs passed by enacting them into law... he failed. While we may be the only industrialized nation without a national health plan We are also the only industrialized nation that hasn't succumbed entirely to socialism. I lived in Europe for five years and if you talk to the people in England they will tell you that it isn't all they thought it would be. Look at London newspapers and you will find the truth about socialized medicine, about people who die waiting in line for an organ transplant or who become severely disabled because their illness or injury was not an emergency (mostly due to infection). Mr Turnstall wrote: But perhaps President Clinton's greatest contribution during the past eight years has been his willingness to insure that some of the more draconian social measures of the Republican party were not signed into law. His policies have been moderate, for the most part... certainly, not liberal by any stretch of the imagination. But perhaps his greatest contribution has been just being theregiving the lunatic fringe and Nazis on the Far Right someone to hate. I wish you would have stated some of these "draconian social measures" so I would know exactly what you are talking about. "Lunatic fringe" what about him selling/giving technology to the Chinese... missles, telecommunications, super computers, encryption technology? Nazi, Far Right... China calls itself Communist which you seem to agree with (Communist/Socialist seem the same to me) kills their own people who want freedom... remember the Square in 1989? Or, what about the law that says a family may only have one child. The Chinese are not our buddies. Ever read the Communist Manifesto... they want to take over the world, that means the US also. Seems to me President Clinton has no defense, no measureable "good deeds" that anyone can enumerate. Regards, Bob Stokes DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/17/98 6:39:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: o The Legislation is UNCONSTITUTIONAL o This is one of the government's direct causes for the increase in temporary agencies o This 'act' has caused MORE abuses o It is not government's place to circumvent a contract The temp agencies have been around a lot longer than the family leave act, and unless the Supreme Court (you know, your friend Rehnquist) has declared it unconstitutional, I guess it may not be. Everything causes abuses. The Government's place is to insure that workers are treated fairly, and are paid the minimum wage. If you want to know how easy it is to live on that, read the article in January's "Harper Magazine." It's called "Nickel-and-Dimed" and it's by Barbara Ehrenreich. If that doesn't keep you in school, nothing will. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- MJ: o The Legislation is UNCONSTITUTIONAL o This is one of the government's direct causes for the increase in temporary agencies o This 'act' has caused MORE abuses o It is not government's place to circumvent a contract Prudy: The temp agencies have been around a lot longer than the family leave act, MJ: Note the above states 'increase' not 'creation'. Prudy: and unless the Supreme Court (you know, your friend Rehnquist) has declared it unconstitutional, I guess it may not be. MJ: Can you cite the relevant Constitutional article, section and clause or amendment? You do realize you are not only providing the Supreme Court with powers they do not possess, but you are implying we have 'Robed Masters'. Prudy: The Government's place is to insure that workers are treated fairly, and are paid the minimum wage. MJ: Who defines 'treated fairly'? Should the Government not ALSO look out for 'employers' ... afterall they are individual citizens as well. Would a better standard not be for Government to protect ALL (regardless of 'group' one desires to place them) from FORCE and FRAUD? You agree to perform Task A in exchange for Wage X for me. o So long as our agreement is 'honored' by both of us, why would Government need to involve themselves? o Where does a 'minimum wage' come into play? -- afterall we both agreed to the terms of our exchange Can you cite Constitutional article, section and clause for either a 'minimum wage' or 'fair worker treatment' (whatever that one might mean)? Regard$, --MJ Congress cannot, under pretext of executing delegated power, pass laws for the accomplishment of objects not entrusted to the Federal Government. -- Linder v. US, 268 US 5, 17 (1925). No doctrine can be sound that releases a legislature from the control of a constitution. ...although always liable to be altered by the people who formed it, [it] is not alterable by any other authority; certainly not by those chosen by the people to carry it into effect. This is so vital a principle, and has been so justly the pride of our popular government, that a denial of it cannot possibly last long or spread far. -- James Madison (1825) DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: And they gave us a document that spells out the peaceful and legal process whereby the electorate (thru their elected representatives) are able to remove officials in public office who are guilty of misconduct in office, including the President... June by the same measure everyone is guilty. i think that we need to bring the whole damned system down. why is anyone bothering about the personalities. most of the presecutors are guiltier than the defendant. let's have some real justice and no more of this make believe crap you keep harping on. chris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- On 18 Dec 98 , KA wrote: -Caveat Lector- On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, William Hugh Tunstall wrote: I respectfully disagree with your idea that the nation was founded upon LIBERTY.first disagreement: Liberty for whom? White males? Blacks? Women? Native Americans? It WAS founded on liberty, albeit a flawed one... But what other country in 1776 (or 1783) gave social and political liberty to blacks, women, or native populations? At least the founding fathers gave us a document whereby we could peacefully and legally alter the government via the amendment process, so that we COULD at a later date include these populations in the electorate... And they gave us a document that spells out the peaceful and legal process whereby the electorate (thru their elected representatives) are able to remove officials in public office who are guilty of misconduct in office, including the President... It is absolutely clear, June, that no one is going to change your mind. Just as it was clear today, despite reasoned, impassioned statements and even pleas from the Democrats for fairness and the consideration of a vote to censure, that no one is going to change the mind of the Republicans. So where does it go from here? It did occur to me that a trial in the Senate might lead to exoneration. Where as a censure does apparently involve admission of guilt. So perhaps censure is not in Clinton's best interests, although he has agreed to accept it. But you could hear the deep division between people deeply committed to social problems and social concerns that would be shelved in the event of the Senate trial and the people who frankly don't give a damn for anything but what they call the "law"? There was also a good deal of condemnation against the Republicans for their adamant refusal to address social issues and their enthusiasm to cut social programs. If it broke down and we were thrust into a civil war, would you know who to trust? Do you know which "militias" are not racist. Which are not infiltrated and corrupt? Would you know who are the real "patriots"? Funny--the question of our time is who is "real." Who are the REAL Jews? Who are the REAL Christians? Who are the REAL Patriots? And all this questioning of who is "real" only makes things absolutely surreal. So where does this lead? I sense it is NOT a good direction. And as much as we do get the Big Picture, are we going to get to just sit back and enjoy it. Somehow, I don't think so. Not unless you've already arranged a spread in Patagonia for yourself, along with Jane Fonda and Henry Kissinger. sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- On 18 Dec 98 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At least the founding fathers gave us a document whereby we could peacefully and legally alter the government via the amendment process, so that we COULD at a later date include these populations in the electorate... I think that we fought a terrible and bloody Civil War to end slavery. And I doubt the suffragettes who fought for the women's vote thought the process was either reasonable or "peaceful." sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- On 18 Dec 98 , Alamaine wrote: It's as though the sea anchor has been let out and everyone's just gonna ride out the storm, checking the knots and wind direction every so often .. I agree with Billio: it's like a fiction with a random plot ... There was a movie some years back in which the main portion of the cast would travel through time just to witness disasters -- as if on a tour. Can't remember the name. It's like that: just hanging around to see what the next plot twist will be, which disaster is next on the intinerary. I listened to the "debates" for most of the day and heard many, many impassioned statements against impeachment. Many democrats were virtually "begging" for the right to vote on censure, which the Republican majority kept insisting could not be considered because it was "unConstitutional." The passion on the part of the democrats was really heartening--as the Republican stone wall was frightening. . Of course, the media (NBC) is barely reflecting the democratic opposition, the NYTimes today called for Clinton's resignation on its editorial page, and Americans are not watching Desert Fox the way they watched the pyrotechnics of Desert Storm--which the media seems to be trivializing, discounting, and which they are not really presenting to the public in anything like the same way. We do, indeed, live in interesting times. I wish I felt as confident as you that we could just "ride out" the storm. Why do I have the feeling that we will be pulled into the vortex by a Republican majority that has already expressed its deepest contempt for the majority of the American people. sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/17/98 10:57:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: state at least twenty treasonous acts by him. Will any of you take the challenge, or will you just keep on spouting your anti-Republican propaganda with no support what-so-ever for the Criminal-In-Chief??? Regards, Bob Stokes You first, dear. Twenty acts of treason please? DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- Ladies first Prudy Can't you even come up with one item? At least you didn't spout that anti-Republican crap this time Come on THINK... surely there must be at least one thing you can invent! I have to go to work now, but I will post at least five items after work... then maybe you can post five, but I doubt it. Regards, Bob Stokes DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/17/98 3:50:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to go to work now, but I will post at least five items after work... then maybe you can post five, but I doubt it. Regards, Bob Stokes But you had 20 right on the tip of your tongue. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/17/98 3:50:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ladies first Prudy Can't you even come up with one item? Oh, okay. I think the family leave act was a pretty good idea. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- Not to nose in nor to be imprudent, but: Ironically, whether the Congress or the people who (supposedly) put them there like it or not, the whole debate has raised the level of understanding about their government. I'm not sure anyone really intended for this to happen or is ready for the results, outcome, or conclusion. I liken it to a distilling process where all the ingredients -- including impurities -- are being precipitated out of the mass. I have never seen the government in so much chaos -- it's as if the ship of state has been caught in a typhoon and we're hoping someone knows how to steer it to calmer waters. Nonetheless, everyone's sailorness is being tested and new knowledge and skills are being gained at every tossing by the waves and every gust of wind. I imagine some will be unable to keep their bearings and some will swept overboard. AER The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust -- : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Subject: Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob : Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 2:03 PM : : -Caveat Lector- : : In a message dated 98-12-17 13:49:37 EST, you write: : : i will take your challenge if you could name one thing the republicrats : have not done in persuit of their goal of enslaving the human race and : wrecking the planet. does anyone know if his spout is still going? : : sirhC : : Just as I thought, you can't name anything he's done for the United : States. Your position has no reasons to support Clinton other than he is a : Democrat. : : DECLARATION DISCLAIMER : == : CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic : screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters : and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright : frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects : spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL : gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; : be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and : nazi's need not apply. : : Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. : : : To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: : SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: : SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- Alamaine Ratliff wrote: Ironically, whether the Congress or the people who (supposedly) put them there like it or not, the whole debate has raised the level of understanding about their government. MJ: Are you certain it is NOT a 'race' to see who can 'instruct' the public on what they are to believe? We are a body politic of myrmidons for the most part. Regard$, --MJ It doesn't matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true. -- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, okay. I think the family leave act was a pretty good idea. MJ: For whom? o The Legislation is UNCONSTITUTIONAL o This is one of the government's direct causes for the increase in temporary agencies o This 'act' has caused MORE abuses o It is not government's place to circumvent a contract Regard$, --MJ The classic redistribution-of-wealth mentality works this way: A and B get together to impose a tax on C so they can give his money to D, who out of a mix of envy of C, gratitude to A and B, and selfishness, then votes for A and B again so they can repeat the process next year. A and B justify playing Robin Hood by claiming that C has plenty of money and, in any event, has a social responsibility to help 'the needy'. Of course, D is 'needy'. -- William Stanmeyer DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: Regard$, --MJ The classic redistribution-of-wealth mentality works this way: A and B get together to impose a tax on C so they can give his money to D, who out of a mix of envy of C, gratitude to A and B, and selfishness, then votes for A and B again so they can repeat the process next year. A and B justify playing Robin Hood by claiming that C has plenty of money and, in any event, has a social responsibility to help 'the needy'. Of course, D is 'needy'. -- William Stanmeyer or in other words: i got mine and F**k the rest of yas. hold on to you red herring it may not be much but its all you got. chris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- MJ quoted: The classic redistribution-of-wealth mentality works this way: A and B get together to impose a tax on C so they can give his money to D, who out of a mix of envy of C, gratitude to A and B, and selfishness, then votes for A and B again so they can repeat the process next year. A and B justify playing Robin Hood by claiming that C has plenty of money and, in any event, has a social responsibility to help 'the needy'. Of course, D is 'needy'. -- William Stanmeyer E Mael wrote: or in other words: i got mine and F**k the rest of yas. MJ: No actually it goes more towards Politicians 'buying' votes and/or individuals utilizing the Government as the instrument of plunder. But then you were only commenting in an effort to remove all doubt. Regard$, --MJ The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see ... -- Dominique Francon DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: MJ: No actually it goes more towards Politicians 'buying' votes and/or individuals utilizing the Government as the instrument of plunder. But then you were only commenting in an effort to remove all doubt. Regard$, --MJ back to that lil red herring of yours huh. hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- The Family Leave Act was an excellent idea. Also, the Clinton administration attempt to get a national health insurance program going. We're the only industrialized nation without a national health insurance program for its citizens.. Those businesses which do provide coverage for their employees have to pick up the tab for the businesses which don't...look at the fast food service industry...and the retail sector. But, of course, that idea was squelched by the usual special interests who control our political process.. But perhaps President Clinton's greatest contribution during the past eight years has been his willingness to insure that some of the more draconian social measures of the Republican party were not signed into law. His policies have been moderate, for the most part... certainly, not liberal by any stretch of the imagination. But perhaps his greatest contribution has been just being theregiving the lunatic fringe and Nazis on the Far Right someone to hate. On Thu, 17 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/17/98 3:50:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ladies first Prudy Can't you even come up with one item? Oh, okay. I think the family leave act was a pretty good idea. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/16/98 7:14:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, we see now that there is no difference between d's and r's. Bush had a War for his interests in oil, and Clinton is having a War to draw attention away from the impeachment. Why didn't you want to impeach George Bush? Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- Congress, not citizens are allowed to impeach a President. Bush got away with it. Clinton should not, and we need to ensure that Bush's sons do not get in office, although I think Jr. is already destined for that post. Regards, Bob Stokes DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- Prudy, and other Clinton supporters on this list Can you name at least ten things that Clinton did that are/were good for the country. I can state at least twenty treasonous acts by him. Will any of you take the challenge, or will you just keep on spouting your anti-Republican propaganda with no support what-so-ever for the Criminal-In-Chief??? Regards, Bob Stokes Educate me on the wonderful things Clinton has done for this country other than being a Democratic President... DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder Gentler Lynch Mob
-dead radical stereotypes about them really do apply. They will be revealed asmean-spirited, partisan hacks, hypocrites, moral absolutists hiding theircraven desire for vengeance and power beneath a ridiculously transparentfaade of pious deliberation and respect for law. -- Gary Kamiya, Salon Mag. The Clinton Defenders insist on speaking silly nonsense. Although I have no political sympathy for the equally corrupt RepubliCrats, lets deal with reality here. I am repeating a post to another newsgroup. 1.- Clinton should never be asked about this issue because it had nothingto do with the case judged (it was the Paula Jones case). The questionshould had been rejected by the judge for being irrelevant.Sorry, this is just plain wrong.Our great Feminist Leader, Bill Clinton personally lobbied Congress to expand permissable discovery in regards to sexual harrassment cases. He aggressively pushed this change in federal discovery law (violence against women's act, 1996).As an attorney, I agree that wide ranging depostion discovery in regards to one's sexual conduct could be improper and intrusive, but it is only poetic justice that Clinton gets hoisted by his own petard. If it was Mr. Average Citizen facing this intrusive questioning, do you think Clinton would be championing YOUR right to privacy?It is interesting to note that not one of Clinton Defenders has demanded that the Clinton sponsered expansion of deposition discovery permitting unlimited questioning in regards to a defendant's sex life be eliminated. If you want to see a Clinton Defender sweat, ask him/her if he/she would be infavor of restricting such wide ranging questioning in sexual harrassment cases.I just love it when these pandering politicians who knowingly pass unconstitutional intrusive laws get caught in their own evil legal spider web.2.- Clinton should have had the right to not answering the question and heshouldn't be prosecuted for not having told the truth because it violateshis right to not pleading guilty. More nonsense. Of course Clinton could have refused to testify before Ken Starr's Grand Jury. He could have taken the Fifth and refused to tesify, like any other citizen. Instead he made a political decision that he would commit premediated serial perjury and get away with it. Why he decided to commit blatant federal felonious perjury is incomphrehensible.3.- Clinton had the right to protect not only his privacy but also the oneof Monica Lewisnky. Sure he did, but once he stupidly permitted himself to be sued for sexual harrassment and his lawyer stupidly permitted him to undergo wide ranging depostion discovery (see point 1 above), he lost that right to privacy. As an attorney I am still flabbergasted that Clinton did not simply take a default on the Paula Jones case. Once the Supreme Court ruled that the litigation could go forward while he was Pres. all he had to say was that it was too intrusive and demeaning on the Presidency to have to spend time defending the case and he would accept a default as to liabilitiy. When that happened the Court would then have merely ruled on the amount of damages, which under the facts of the case would have probably been less the $100,000.Once again, Arrogance trumps Common Sense.FLW
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: Prudy, and other Clinton supporters on this list Can you name at least ten things that Clinton did that are/were good for the country. I can state at least twenty treasonous acts by him. Will any of you take the challenge, or will you just keep on spouting your anti-Republican propaganda with no support what-so-ever for the Criminal-In-Chief??? Regards, Bob Stokes Educate me on the wonderful things Clinton has done for this country other than being a Democratic President... i will take your challenge if you could name one thing the republicrats have not done in persuit of their goal of enslaving the human race and wrecking the planet. does anyone know if his spout is still going? sirhC DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 98-12-17 13:49:37 EST, you write: i will take your challenge if you could name one thing the republicrats have not done in persuit of their goal of enslaving the human race and wrecking the planet. does anyone know if his spout is still going? sirhC Just as I thought, you can't name anything he's done for the United States. Your position has no reasons to support Clinton other than he is a Democrat. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/16/98 11:51:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is truly a pity that the American system is missing its most crucial link; an educated electorate. The electorate IS being educated at this time. Sex education comes first, and Ken Starr is providing that. The rest of the education comes later. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 98-12-16 18:42:10 EST, you write: The electorate IS being educated at this time. Sex education comes first, and Ken Starr is providing that. The rest of the education comes later. Prudy Yes, we see now that there is no difference between d's and r's. Bush had a War for his interests in oil, and Clinton is having a War to draw attention away from the impeachment. Seems the bombing of Sudan didn't do it, so he has resorted to bigger targets. Why not North Korea... they did fire a missle across Japan, aren't they more of a threat than Iraq which hasn't recovered from the Gulf War? So now, Clintonites does this make him eligible for impeachment? The timing of the "Kinder, Gentler" article could not have been better, or worse for the Clintonites. Not only that, but did you notice it was only anti- Republican propaganda, not a word about the "good work" of Clinton. Just what has Clinton done to deserve such an ardent following? Can anyone post ten "good" things Clinton has done since he has been in office? Regards, Bob Stokes P.S. ~ I see his program worked, they have put off the vote on impeachment till Monday. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob - Part II
-Caveat Lector- On 16 Dec 98 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to a long-time Republican friend, the Republicans are risking nothing. According to him, the American public are so stupid and have such short memories that by the time the next election comes around, they will have forgotten all about this matter. Makes you wonder. Prudy Actually, this has been the strategy with every cover-up, including the JFK assassination and Iran-Contra--this belief that the public is stupid and forgetful and in a few years, no one will care or remember. I also wonder about June, who thinks we'll be allowed a Ken Starr clone to go after each and every corrupt politico who comes after Clinton. Ho Ho Ho!!! What a laugh that is. You won't catch one of the Bush kids in a trap like that. When it comes to obstruction, they really know how to handle justice. Perhaps you have already forgotten Iran-Contra, Silverado, the SL debacle--now there were crimes. Real crimes. And the criminals laughed all the way to the bank. They're not only laughing. They're all running for national office. sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] A kinder, gentler lynch mob - Part I
-Caveat Lector- A kinder, gentler lynch mob Salon, 12/15/98 THE 'PEACHY-KEEN GOP HAS SHOWN ITS TRUE COLORS -- AND THEY CONFIRM THE MOST BRAIN-DEAD RADICAL STEREOTYPES FROM THE '60S. BY GARY KAMIYA I grew up believing that Republicans were the incarnation of all evil. This was a harsh and unsophisticated judgment, but the political discourse of 1960s Berkeley, where I grew up, lacked a certain refinement. In fact, to be honest, it was pretty much taken straight from Saturday morning cartoons. In our righteous view, "the people," whoever they were, were always being "oppressed" by The Man, a bloated GOP plutocrat mouthing pious moral maxims. It went without saying that Republicans were self-righteous, mean-spirited rich white men who secretly napalmed Cambodian villages, turned loose the dogs against civil rights marchers and dug the Carpenters. They were Bad, and if we could somehow get rid of them -- meanwhile taking lots of acid and listening to Hendrix -- Good Things would happen. Later, like many of my co-religionists, I became embarrassed by these sentiments. Such crude beliefs were unseemly. Sophistication demanded a more nuanced view. Republicans, I now realized, could be decent men and women who were just parroting the country-club line. Even the Reagan Age -- that endless period I as a Californian was forced to spend under the Great Communicator's genially callous thumb, while the Woolly Mammoths died out and Ice Ages came and went across the globe -- couldn't make me return to the wooden Stalinist sloganeering of my youth. I even reevaluated the Carpenters. And then came the Starr referral and Henry Hyde and the House Judiciary Committee vote, and I realized I had gotten it right the first time. When the Republicans in the full House vote to remove President Clinton from office, as they will almost certainly do, they will prove that those brain- dead radical stereotypes about them really do apply. They will be revealed as mean-spirited, partisan hacks, hypocrites, moral absolutists hiding their craven desire for vengeance and power beneath a ridiculously transparent façade of pious "deliberation" and "respect for law." The GOP will stand exposed before all of America as the party of vicious, petty ideologues who, in their outrageous desire to undo the results of two lawful elections, seized upon a grotesquely acquired legalistic evasion that falls so far short of meeting the constitutional standard of high crimes and misdemeanors as to be laughable. Or, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, as the ever-generous New York Times did in a recent editorial. Let's assume that some of them are actually sincere in their belief that lying about sex -- in an obvious vendetta case brought by a biased and obsessed "independent" counsel who, after utterly failing to find any serious misdeeds, connived to lay a perjury trap -- constitutes an impeachable offense. But if they really believe that, then we must conclude that either their grasp of the Constitution is so weak that their fitness to sit in any elected office is highly questionable, or that they are so rigid in their moral purity as to be Torquemadas in power ties, quasi-theocratic inquisitors who would turn America into a frightening Bible Belt version of 15th century Spain or 20th century Iran. Why are the Republicans doing this? Why, defying the express wishes of the American people, are they trampling on the Constitution, weakening the presidency and inaugurating a hideous new political world of blood feuds and true hatred? And why are they ignoring the warnings from the business community -- to which they used to listen -- that impeachment is dangerous and destabilizing? The answer is simple: This is who they are. This action reflects the GOP's true nature. This is a party so desperate to burn a president they dislike at the stake that they'll incinerate the Constitution to get the fire started. All that hoo-hah a few weeks ago about how Robert Livingston was going to bring a new "moderation" to the party now that nutty professor Gingrich was gone stands revealed as empty verbiage. The truth is that this is now a party of zealots and ideologues, obsessed crusaders who have completely lost touch with the common sense, fairness and decency of the American people. Like Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge, who declared a purifying "Year Zero" when history's slate was to be wiped clean (and all nonpeasants were to be killed), these high- minded crusaders want to restore America's sense of moral purpose -- and if they have to trash the country in order to do it, well, extremism in the defense of virtue is no vice! To the tumbrels with the parasites, citizens, while the Times and the Post knit their stern editorials! GOP "moderates"? What moderates? The few "moderates" who are trotted forth on TV to be shown to the mob, like condemned Chinese dissidents with signs hanging around their necks, seem barely sentient. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER ==
[CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob - Part II
-Caveat Lector- A KINDER, GENTLER LYNCH MOB | PAGE 1, 2 - - - - - - - - - - The façade of "judiciousness" and "bipartisanship" that the pious media, ever cowed by the musty aura of Historic Constitutional Events, dark-wooded chambers, invocations of "our national honor" and other useful fig leafs for skullduggery, tried to sell us has vanished without a trace. Hyde, the Iran- contra apologist and wisecracking GOP attack dog who was elevated to Solomon- like heights of wisdom by the media before the disgraceful House Judicial proceedings began, has now taken up final residence in the trash can with unsavory American byproducts like our anal home-grown Robespierre, Kenneth Starr, and the maniacal Bob Barr, who apparently believes that Clinton should have been impeached at birth. There was Hyde this weekend on the talk shows, saying that Clinton should resign. This paragon of impartiality apparently modeled his jurisprudential approach on the Red Queen in "Alice in Wonderland," who, as a witness departs in the trial of the Knave of Hearts, says under her voice, "And just take off his head outside." But, gosh, he sure sounds courtly talking that parliamentary talk. In fact, Hyde may have been taking those groveling Times setup pieces a little too seriously, for this weekend he began to invoke no less a figure than Jesus Christ. Asked by Cokie Roberts why he advocated impeachment and didn't think censure should be an option despite popular opinion, he replied, "If Jesus Christ had taken a poll, he would never have preached the gospel." This is a wonderful addition to the great American tradition of reactionary invocations of Jesus, who after patriotism represents the best refuge for scoundrels. (The all-time winner remains that English-only advocate who declaimed, "If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.") With all due respect to the pious motivations behind Chairman Hyde's religious parallel, however, it may not be a good strategy for him to go there. Somehow, when one looks at the faces of Clinton's judges -- the pig-eyed ex-exterminator Tom DeLay; the robotic, hate-filled Barr; the snidely, vitriolic David Schippers; the priggish choirboy-judge Bill McCollum -- the loving face of the Savior does not exactly rush into one's mind. In fact, these worthies recall somewhat less inspiring figures from the New Testament -- namely the Pharisees, those vengeful, legalistic Jews who denounced Jesus. (The "moderates," who will doubtless be washing their hands avidly in the days to come, conjure up that noted Northeastern GOP fence-sitter, Pontius Pilate.) Admittedly, the mushy- souled escape artist President Clinton makes a truly terrible Jesus, but the imagery still isn't good. The Republicans are zealots, but they're crafty zealots. Their attempt to take Clinton down may blow up in their faces, but they have reasons for thinking it won't. They think they can get away with this without being punished at the polls, even if they don't kill Clinton. But they cherish a secret hope that they will kill him -- that once impeachment is a fait accompli, with all the previously mentioned flag-waving, invocation of the Founders, gravity of the charges blah blah blah, public opinion will turn against Clinton, leading either to his resignation or to his conviction and removal by the Senate. And that hope is based on their belief that Clinton's support is inch-deep -- that once the American people realize he's in trouble, they'll desert him like rats abandoning a sinking ship. It's the self-fulfilling prophecy strategy, and it is astonishingly contemptuous. It presumes that the American people have no memory, no spiritual or moral consistency, that they are incapable of holding onto any position any longer than a jittery kid with a remote can watch one TV program. The GOP believes this for several reasons. First, they too are children of our Warholian society of the spectacle, in which everything that flickers across the screen has equal weight and nothing stays on the screen for more than a few seconds. As such, they too have been seduced by the belief that, in Marx's words, "all that is solid melts into air." Yesterday's Clinton supporter is today's impeachment supporter. The scary thing is, they just might be right. There have been very few tests of our national consistency in the channel-changing age. The public might be influenced by the media, which has begun running this-is-a-whole-new-ballgame- now stories. The Times, much of whose Clinton coverage continues to appall, splashed on its cover a thin reaction story (ominous headline: "Gravity of the issues sinking in for a public weary of scandal") that featured two or three people in that multicultural mirror of America, Tarrytown, N.Y., saying they were now leaning toward impeachment. (How odd, considering nothing in this story has changed in months except the vote to impeach.) But it would be bitterly ironic (although perfectly consistent,
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob - Part II
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/16/98 10:21:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Maybe the go-for-the-jugular Republican strategy will work, and the American public will be won over to impeachment. But it probably won't. And there is reason to think that the day of the impeachment vote -- most likely Dec. 17 -- will be a day that will live in GOP infamy -- that it will be remembered as the day that the party lost its moral standing, became a marginal home for dogmatists and cranks and cynical political opportunists willing to ignore the wishes of the majority to satisfy the ravings of true believers. The Republicans thought they could get away with spitting in the face of the American people, but they may be spitting against the wind. SALON | Dec. 15, 1998 According to a long-time Republican friend, the Republicans are risking nothing. According to him, the American public are so stupid and have such short memories that by the time the next election comes around, they will have forgotten all about this matter. Makes you wonder. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob
-Caveat Lector- Gerald Harp forwarded: A KINDER, GENTLER LYNCH MOB SALON | Dec. 15, 1998 snip Instructions for myrmidons MJ: Reading through this tripe, the consideration of a 'mirror' view regarding the Democratic desire to SAVE an accused perjurer who has abused his power and his office 'turned' on every word. It is truly a pity that the American system is missing its most crucial link; an educated electorate. An EE would have prevented our system from degenerating to what we are currently faced today -- both within the problems of this nation (real and perceived) AND within the leadership ranks (both wings of the statist party -- Ds and Rs). I ponder the inevitable fertilization of the tree of Liberty, but am resigned to the general fear of freedom expressed by most. Regard$, --MJ The important thing is to stop lying to yourself. A man who lies to himself, and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize the truth, either in himself or in anyone else, and he ends up losing respect for himself as well as for others. When he has no respect for anyone, he can no longer love and, in order to divert himself, having no love in him, he yields to his impulses, indulges in the lowest forms of pleasure, and behaves in the end like an animal, in satisfying his vices. And it all comes from lying -- lying to others and to yourself. -- Feodor Mikhailovich Dostoyevsky 1880 _The Brothers Karamazov_ DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] A kinder, gentler lynch mob - Part I
-Caveat Lector- I like the writing style of this article (at least at the beginning). I disagree with the content. The author has indeed reverted back to his original position that Republicans are Bad, Bad, Bad and Democrats are merely the victim of their cunning abuse of power and viciousness. Please. Clinton got caught with his pants down - quite literally. The Presidency of the United States is THE most powerful "official" position on this planet. The standards of conduct must be held high as the ramifications of indiscretions, even in his personal life, affect countless of millions of lives - not to mention millions of dollars unraveling these antics. There are expected behaviors for all the roles we each have in our lives. Only having sexual relations (as previously understood and not taking into account Clinton's new definition) with one's spouse is an expected behavior of marriage. If this restriction of behavior is unacceptable. Don't get married. On the same note, lying to the people he administers is unacceptable. If Clinton can not abide by this very simple rule of conduct then he needs to step down. Both the Democrats and the Republicans will sling mud to their advantage to garner more seats and consequently more sway in the House and Senate. That's the game. To imply that only the Republicans are playing this game is ridiculous. Btw: I am not a Republican and I am seriously reconsidering my designated "label" of Democrat. And NO, I did not vote for Clinton. Hilary Together We Create Heaven on Earth [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Come join exploration - a discussion list dedicated to keeping up-to-date on new technologies, advancements in medicine, environmental concerns, 'conspiracy theories' and, of course, UFO stuff. Discussion is encouraged. Bashing and soapboxing will get you bounced off the list. To subscribe to exploration go to: http:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Moderator: Hilary A. Thomas -Original Message- From: Gerald Harp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 8:08 AM Subject: [CTRL] A kinder, gentler lynch mob - Part I -Caveat Lector- A kinder, gentler lynch mob Salon, 12/15/98 THE 'PEACHY-KEEN GOP HAS SHOWN ITS TRUE COLORS -- AND THEY CONFIRM THE MOST BRAIN-DEAD RADICAL STEREOTYPES FROM THE '60S. BY GARY KAMIYA I grew up believing that Republicans were the incarnation of all evil. This was a harsh and unsophisticated judgment, but the political discourse of 1960s Berkeley, where I grew up, lacked a certain refinement. In fact, to be honest, it was pretty much taken straight from Saturday morning cartoons. In our righteous view, "the people," whoever they were, were always being "oppressed" by The Man, a bloated GOP plutocrat mouthing pious moral maxims. It went without saying that Republicans were self-righteous, mean-spirited rich white men who secretly napalmed Cambodian villages, turned loose the dogs against civil rights marchers and dug the Carpenters. They were Bad, and if we could somehow get rid of them -- meanwhile taking lots of acid and listening to Hendrix -- Good Things would happen. Later, like many of my co-religionists, I became embarrassed by these sentiments. Such crude beliefs were unseemly. Sophistication demanded a more nuanced view. Republicans, I now realized, could be decent men and women who were just parroting the country-club line. Even the Reagan Age -- that endless period I as a Californian was forced to spend under the Great Communicator's genially callous thumb, while the Woolly Mammoths died out and Ice Ages came and went across the globe -- couldn't make me return to the wooden Stalinist sloganeering of my youth. I even reevaluated the Carpenters. And then came the Starr referral and Henry Hyde and the House Judiciary Committee vote, and I realized I had gotten it right the first time. When the Republicans in the full House vote to remove President Clinton from office, as they will almost certainly do, they will prove that those brain- dead radical stereotypes about them really do apply. They will be revealed as mean-spirited, partisan hacks, hypocrites, moral absolutists hiding their craven desire for vengeance and power beneath a ridiculously transparent façade of pious "deliberation" and "respect for law." The GOP will stand exposed before all of America as the party of vicious, petty ideologues who, in their outrageous desire to undo the results of two lawful elections, seized upon a grotesquely acquired legalistic evasion that falls so far short of meeting the constitutional standard of high crimes and misdemeanors as to be laughable. Or, let's give them the benefit of the doubt, as the ever-generous New York Times did in a recent editorial. Let's assume that some of them are actually sincere in their belief that lying about sex -- in an obvious vendetta cas
