Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
June, I dislike being put in the position of defending Christian history, but I've learned that charming but simplistic understandings of the culture of others is foolish. I would suggest you go to the Catholic Encyclopedia to learn Catholic history. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm Volumes have been written through the years arguing the details of how Christmas was named, celebrated, how the time frame was played out, differences between cultures, etc. Whether one accepts the truth of a religious belief, one must understand that intelligent people have followed the path of that belief for their own reasons. In addition it would be foolish to deny that for at least 1700 years growing numbers of Christians associated the rituals with their belief in the birth of Christ rather than associating the rituals with a belief in paganism. There is growing tension as those believing in Christianity are being asked to split themselves in two, one part celebrating Winter Holidays while the other part attempts to celebrate Christmas. As I said, it will not be the end of Christmas in America. The situation is much more complex than that.
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- From: Xxx Yyy >As I stated that I am Jewish, are you implying it was because of the sins >of the Jews that the crucifixion took place (not very nice on your part) or >is it that you don't read carefully? Supposedly Christ died for the sins of ALL humanity, not just for the Jews (of which Christ was one, most people forget); He was the sacrificial scapegoat who took on all the sins of humanity, which were washed away by His death. His actual manner of death OTOH, crucifixion, was due to the ROMAN authorities, not the Jewish authorities. Death by crucifixion was reserved for those convicted of high crimes and misdemeanors against the Roman government; the Roman authorities allowed the Jewish Sanhedrin to impose the death penalty for other crimes, but Jews were NOT allowed to crucify the condemned, their death sentences were carried out by stoning the condemned. The fact that gospel says that Christ was crucified shows that He was killed by the Romans, not by the Jews (not to say that certain elements in Jewish society of the time may not have welcomed His demise, as they found Christ too much of a troublemaker), and that the Romans killed Him because they considered Him a strong threat to the Roman government. June www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- From: Xxx Yyy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Even given that the details you give may be correct Don't take my word for it, study it for yourself -- it's documented historical fact. >the fact >that there is a time similarity between a solstice celebration and Christmas >doesn't mean that there has been no history of Christmas celebrations over >the last 2,000 years. Actually, 'Christmas' celebrations are much newer than 2000 years; the early Christian church did NOT celebrate Christ's birth, and indeed prohibited Christians from partaking of the pagan celebrations taking place in late December in the various cultures they found themselves in. It was only when the Christian church became the dominant church did it feel secure enough to lift the winter solstice celebration ban and changed it into "Christ's birthday"... >The holiday was kept alive by its association with >Christianity rather than the other way around. The reality is the exact opposite -- people continued their beloved celebrations even when the church prohibited it, so the church decided on a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and adapted the customs to the Christian church; same thing happened with Halloween and Easter, both of which were pagan celebrations which the church usurped for it's own uses. >I really don't think that >those who celebrate the Winter Holidays are calling themselves pagans because >the time frame is there. Of course they dont'; but it doesn't change the FACT that the decorating of evergreen trees, hanging mistletoe, brewing wassail, putting up lights against the dark of the year, flying reindeer, and magical spirits/elves who hand out gifts and edible treats all come from pagan celebrations and have absolutely NOTHING to do with the birth, life, and death of Jesus Christ and never did, except for when the Christian church decided to adapt the customs to itself and therefore put a Christian MYTH to those celebrations (e.g., the star on top of the tree supposedly representing the star of Bethlehem, or a Catholic bishop/saint from Turkey being superimposed onto the pre-existing Yule god)... >Winter Holidays is such a forced, shared ritual. In time >we Jews will be asked why we aren't celebrating Winter Holidays with the rest >of the community? What will our answer be? It certainly has been much >easier for us to answer why we don't celebrate Christmas. I've always wondered why Jews don't hang lights on their houses for Hannukah, since it IS the 'Festival of Lights'... I also think that Jews need to get ornaments/decorations as tacky as "Christians" put up for Christmas, e.g. someone should come up with a bubble-light menorah... (I also think God has a special Hell for people who put up plastic light-up creches; God is going to demand of such people when their time comes: "What?! You really think we all looked that ugly?! Down below with ye!") ;-) http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
In a message dated 12/19/01 4:56:25 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A festival formed at a basic instinctive level. Just how do you celebrate that in your home? And with what community do you share this festival? >>>the cause for celebration is at a basic instinctive level. how you celebrate it i will leave to your own judgement. sacrifice something for all i care. your god perhaps. oh sorry- that's the whole point isn't it? or is that the other one, easter. oh yeah it is, cause that's when you remember that it was your sins that killed him. your sins. As I stated that I am Jewish, are you implying it was because of the sins of the Jews that the crucifixion took place (not very nice on your part) or is it that you don't read carefully? As I don't have a basic instinct to have solstice celebrations, I guess I don't have to make those kind of arrangements. Thank heavens. Dancing skyclad in a grove in this kind of weather is hard on the bones.
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
- Original Message - From: Xxx Yyy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America? A festival formed at a basic instinctive level. Just how do you celebrate that in your home? And with what community do you share this festival? >>>the cause for celebration is at a basic instinctive level. how you celebrate it i will leave to your own judgement. sacrifice something for all i care. your god perhaps. oh sorry- that's the whole point isn't it? or is that the other one, easter. oh yeah it is, cause that's when you remember that it was your sins that killed him. your sins.
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
In a message dated 12/19/01 4:22:17 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: is a ridiculous arrogant statement to make. the celebration of the turn of winter works on a very basic, instinctive level. it is a festival that has reason to be always there. religions of all kinds will come and go but mid winter celebration, of whatever kind- relief even, will remain forever. A festival formed at a basic instinctive level. Just how do you celebrate that in your home? And with what community do you share this festival? No need to get so defensive in your reply however.
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: "Xxx Yyy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America? > -Caveat Lector- > > Even given that the details you give may be correct June she *is* correct > though, the fact > that there is a time similarity between a solstice celebration and Christmas the similarity was deliberate- blending into the existing religion physically and spiritually and/or imposing the new. do you really think that it is a coincidence that the christian festival of crucifixian and ressurection occurs at the same time as the ancient spring festival of renewal and rebirth of the earth with the onset of spring? > doesn't mean that there has been no history of Christmas celebrations over > the last 2,000 years. what does this mean? > The holiday was kept alive by its association with > Christianity rather than the other way around this is a ridiculous arrogant statement to make. the celebration of the turn of winter works on a very basic, instinctive level. it is a festival that has reason to be always there. religions of all kinds will come and go but mid winter celebration, of whatever kind- relief even, will remain forever. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- Even given that the details you give may be correct June though, the fact that there is a time similarity between a solstice celebration and Christmas doesn't mean that there has been no history of Christmas celebrations over the last 2,000 years. The holiday was kept alive by its association with Christianity rather than the other way around. I really don't think that those who celebrate the Winter Holidays are calling themselves pagans because the time frame is there. (It would be an interesting twist..."Communities can't publicly celebrate the Winter Holidays because of separation of state and grove.") The thread is titled "Is this the end of Christmas in America?" The answer is really no. In the same way that the holidays of Judaism are really irrelevant to the larger community, so it will be with the Christian holidays, believers in monotheistic religion becoming a rather quaint subset of the larger community. Communities are held together by shared rituals among other things. Winter Holidays is such a forced, shared ritual. In time we Jews will be asked why we aren't celebrating Winter Holidays with the rest of the community? What will our answer be? It certainly has been much easier for us to answer why we don't celebrate Christmas. Anyway, redefining how that day in December is to be celebrated is only one part of the ongoing change to irrelevance of the monotheistic religions to life in the New World Order. As Mortimer Adler wrote, the New World Order must have a culture in common, and Judaism, Christianity and Islam are not acceptable. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- From: Xxx Yyy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >June, thanks for the background information on the separation of >celebrations. No doubt that Winter Holidays are extremely enjoyable. The >only difference between then and now is that the heavy hand of mass >communication has already relegated the religious component to the fringes. No, that was the point I was trying to make with my post, that this is NOT a modern phenomenon, and one can no more blame mass media for the lack of religiosity in most Christmas celebrations than 'heathen', Catholics, or immigrants were blamed for it in the past... The bottom line is that the winter celebrations predate Christianity by millenia, and all that the Christian church did was to adapt and adopt pre-existing festivals and put a Christian veneer onto them. Point of fact, most scholars agree that if the person known as Jesus Christ actually did exist, He wasn't born in December...the December 25th date is an arbitrary one, a combination of northern European pagan Yule customs with mid-east Mithraic festivals (Mithras' "birthday" was said to be December 25) and with the ancient Roman festival of Saturnalia which was held at the same time of year... So the hue and cry about the 'lack of Christ in Christmas celebrations' is a crock, since none of the celebrations had anything to do with Christ in the first place... Religious Christians have bemoaned for centuries that Christmas has become too secular, and their complaints will continue into the future >There can be no revival of the religious component on a community wide level >for many reasons. Anyone who wants to keep alive the religious component >will have to buck the trend without community support, and each individual >will have to decide within himself whether it is worth the effort. Well that is what it all boils down to, doesn't it? Religion is, after all, a PRIVATE affair, a decision between an individual and his or her own conscious and with that of their chosen divinity (if they even decide that they believe in a deity)it should NOT be a community affair, unless everyone in a community is of like mind (as in groups like the Shakers deciding to set up their own community)... For the rest of us who live in diverse communities, so-called "Christians" will just have to get used to the idea that not everyone believes as they do, and under our form of government, "Christians" have no right to impose their religion onto other citizens June http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- June, thanks for the background information on the separation of celebrations. No doubt that Winter Holidays are extremely enjoyable. The only difference between then and now is that the heavy hand of mass communication has already relegated the religious component to the fringes. There can be no revival of the religious component on a community wide level for many reasons. Anyone who wants to keep alive the religious component will have to buck the trend without community support, and each individual will have to decide within himself whether it is worth the effort. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- From: Xxx Yyy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Anyway, it will be up to the >religious leaders to make sure that members of their congregations work at >keeping the religious component alive in their personal lives and not depend >on the larger community to do their work for them. It will be up to them to >remind their followers that Winter Holidays are being celebrated at the same >time Christmas is and not to confuse the two. This is nothing new; one of the reasons for the Restoration (the overthrow of the Cromwellian government in England in the 1600s) was due to the fact that the Puritanical government had outlawed all secular forms of Christmas celebration...the only thing that was allowed was to attend chuch on Christmas Day. It seems that all of the scandalous secular celebratory customs were just too popular for the general public to give up for long... Indeed, New England for more than 2 centuries tended to adhere to the edicts of its Puritan ancestors and did not have secular Christmas displays (indeed many New England communities outright outlawed such displays), and they looked aghast at what they thought quite scandalous behaviour by their New York State neighbors, descendents of the original Dutch immigrants who continued the quite merry secular Christmas customs of the Netherlands. In fact, it was the documenting of such customs in The Knickerbocker Tales (from which comes the Rip Van Winkle legend) that introduced many Dutch Christmas customs into the American consciousness, such as the concept of Sinte Klaas, Dutch for "Saint (Ni)cholas", which got anglified into "Santa Claus"; and the custom of leaving one's shoes out for Sinte to fill with candy and toys, which was modified into hanging stockings on the fireplace mantlebefore the early to mid 1800s, one would have been hard pressed to find any sign of the Christmas season in New England, save for the devout Yankees attending church on the morning of December 25th. June http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- Many years ago when there was broadcasting from the Soviet Union that was beamed out of Cuba and could be heard on an am station, I heard how Winter Holidays were celebrated in the Soviet Union. It seems everything was the same as here except there was no religious component. There were gifts, days off, sled rides, trees and a version of Santa Claus. I forget what else. Somebody must have written about this. Anyway, it will be up to the religious leaders to make sure that members of their congregations work at keeping the religious component alive in their personal lives and not depend on the larger community to do their work for them. It will be up to them to remind their followers that Winter Holidays are being celebrated at the same time Christmas is and not to confuse the two. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/18/01 1:38:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << It's as if "Scrooge" has been institutionalized. It is not hyperbole to observe that in many (if not most) American homes, Harry Potter is more popular than the Christ-child is. >> A lot of this is news to me. I don't know why it's happening. We all celebrated everybody's holidays when I was in school. Mary Poppins was a witch, and she was the one we read about in my day. Today's kids have a wizard. Very few people I've known became Satanists (although I had suspicions of the Reagans) from reading Mary Poppins, and I'll bet very few will lose their sanity from reading Harry Potter. I've even noticed that reading the Bible doesn't seem to turn people into Christians. Still I think that Christmas will be around for quite a while. Just why the angel would be taken off the tree I can't fathom. Almost every religion I can think of has angels--Jewish, Christian, Moslem. Maybe others as well. Prudy http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Is This the End of Christmas in America?
-Caveat Lector- WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War! Is This the End of Christmas in America? By Chuck Baldwin December 18, 2001 All across America, Christmas is being expunged. In spite of the events of three months ago, there is little room for Christmas in America's public life. In fact, Christmas seems to be losing ground even faster than in the past. School districts across the country are forbidding students from passing out personal Christmas cards. In Minnesota, two middle school students were disciplined for wearing red and green scarves. In Massachusetts, ninth grade students were warned to refrain from wishing friends "Merry Christmas." In Illinois, a teacher was instructed by her principal to not read a story about Christmas to her second graders. In Georgia, a school removed the word "Christmas" from its calendar after threats from the A.C.L.U. Throughout the United States, nativity scenes and Christmas trees have been removed. In one South Florida veterans hospital, even a Christmas angel was taken down. In most public places today, all references to Christmas have been obliterated. Taking its place is the politically correct, "non-offensive," multicultural, full-of-diversity greeting, "Happy Holidays." What is with all this lunacy? It's as if "Scrooge" has been institutionalized. It is not hyperbole to observe that in many (if not most) American homes, Harry Potter is more popular than the Christ-child is. America's Founding Fathers must be rolling over in their graves! In their wildest dreams, they could never have imagined such a display of religious intolerance happening in the land "founded by Christians on the Gospel of Jesus Christ" (Patrick Henry). The longest-living Founding Father was John Quincy Adams. As such, he was a much sought after speaker for patriotic events. On July 4, 1837, he made a very astute observation. He said, "Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day? Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the Progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity and gave to the world the first irrevocable pledge of the fulfillment of the prophecies announced directly from Heaven at the birth of the Savior and predicted by the greatest of the Hebrew prophets 600 years before?" Adams' sentiments seem quite out of fashion today, don't they? His penchant for Christian liberty is as popular these days as limited government is. Then again, I remember a time when children prayed and read the Bible in public schools. That day is gone for good, and it appears that the public celebration of Christmas is nearing its end, also. However, people should not fret. In the new socialist Amerika now under construction, Ramadan and Kwanzaa are perfectly acceptable. *COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for nonprofit research and educational purposes only.[Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ] Want to be on our lists? Write at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for a menu of our lists! Write to same address to be off lists! http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
