Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/23/01 12:50:15 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > There could be no sane reason not to strip the passengers of their phones. > At the very least, the phones would clarify to anyone that a hijack was > going on. > > That means that fighters could scramble as soon as this became known. This > is very very fishy. > > J2 I appreciate the fact that you see this too. Presumably the phone call from the plane that crashed in PA kept that plane from being used as a bomb. The hijackers would have foreseen this type of complication. Samantha http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....
-Caveat Lector- thew wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > I think its spreads the terror, which is the point of terrorism. They didn't > see that the cell phones would make a difference, and for the most part, > they didn't. There could be no sane reason not to strip the passengers of their phones. At the very least, the phones would clarify to anyone that a hijack was going on. That means that fighters could scramble as soon as this became known. This is very very fishy. J2 > -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - -- > -- - -- - > The police aren't here to create disorder, they are here to preserve > disorder. > > Mayor Richard Daley > > NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew > > > From: "Samantha L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 11:58:38 EDT > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?. > > > > It just occurred to me, with all the careful planning by the hijackers, how > > strange it was they didn't immediately strip all passengers of their cell > > phones. With this level of planning, it's almost inconceivable that they > > overlooked this - unless it suited the overall purpose that passengers would > > communicate with others. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....
-Caveat Lector- On Sat, 22 Sep 2001, Samantha L. wrote: > It just occurred to me, with all the careful planning by the hijackers, how >strange it was they didn't immediately strip all passengers of their cell >phones. It wasn't just cellphones...some calls were done via the Airfones built into the plane... Conjecture I heard on one news show was that the hijackers allowed this because they knew it was too late for any help to arrive, plus they wanted the word to get out so that people would know exactly what happened...without those calls, we might still be wondering what happened to cause the 'accidents'... June === Check out Alternative Kite Radio at http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com Alternative Kite Radio (low-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Radio (high-bandwidth) Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (it's always summer somewhere) Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (everyday's a holiday) === http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....
-Caveat Lector- I think its spreads the terror, which is the point of terrorism. They didn't see that the cell phones would make a difference, and for the most part, they didn't. -- -- -- -- - -- - -- -- - - - - -- --- -- - - - - -- - - - -- -- - -- - The police aren't here to create disorder, they are here to preserve disorder. Mayor Richard Daley NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew > From: "Samantha L." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Conspiracy Theory Research List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 11:58:38 EDT > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?. > > It just occurred to me, with all the careful planning by the hijackers, how > strange it was they didn't immediately strip all passengers of their cell > phones. With this level of planning, it's almost inconceivable that they > overlooked this - unless it suited the overall purpose that passengers would > communicate with others. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/22/01 6:21:00 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > According to the news reports, this guy has never been in trouble with > the law, including for domestic disputes; the mother is at a loss for why > her son suddenly 'went crazy'...according to the police, if this had > happened BEFORE 9/11 this guy would have spent the night in jail and then > released with a date to appear in court, and nothing more would have been > thought about it. But due to the increased awareness of possible > terrorist cells, the FBI has been brought in and this guy is being held > on $500,000 bond... This sounds so much like the Sirhan Sirhan mystery. > That's not true; the passenger with the last name of Beamer (whose > wife attended Bush's speech the other night) called 911, and the flight > attendent on the first plane that hit the WTC called her headquarters to > report a hijacking in progress...they asked her to look out the window to > report what she saw, because at that moment she wasn't sure where they > were...she reported seeing water and buildings, and they realized that > they were going to crash into NYC, exclaimed "Oh my God!" and the phone > went dead > It just occurred to me, with all the careful planning by the hijackers, how strange it was they didn't immediately strip all passengers of their cell phones. With this level of planning, it's almost inconceivable that they overlooked this - unless it suited the overall purpose that passengers would communicate with others. Samantha http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....
-Caveat Lector- On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, Marilyn Wright wrote: >I mean, how do they know that there were 19 hijackers? >How do they know how many were aboard each plane? >(Did people report this in cell phone calls to relatives?) Yes, they did...on each plane at least one passenger and/or flight attendent got a cellphone call out reporting 'x' number of hijackers had taken over the plane; in addition it was reported that at least on the first plane that went into the WTC, a flight attendent called out and not only reported the names of the hijackers, but what seats they had been sitting in aboard the plane... >And if terrorists didn't do it, how did whoever did do it convince 19 >people to get on planes and kill themselves--let alone fly into >targets that would kill thousands of innocent people? Have you ever read "The Manchurian Candidate", or seen the movie (I highly recommend reading the book)? This past week a Panamanian convert to Islam in my area was arrested...the reason the authorities first arrived on the scene was due to a 911 hangup call that was traced to this man's house...turns out it was his mother that called regarding a domestic dispute, this guy flipped out and started abusing her... It would have seemed to have been just your everyday, run-of-the-mill domestic dispute complaint...except the police found drawings of airports this guy had done, lists of various chemical agents that could be used to cause the greatest death and mayhem, and various dates in September crossed off in his personal calendar, including September 11th; somehow the authorities have determined that all of this was done BEFORE 9/11... According to the news reports, this guy has never been in trouble with the law, including for domestic disputes; the mother is at a loss for why her son suddenly 'went crazy'...according to the police, if this had happened BEFORE 9/11 this guy would have spent the night in jail and then released with a date to appear in court, and nothing more would have been thought about it. But due to the increased awareness of possible terrorist cells, the FBI has been brought in and this guy is being held on $500,000 bond... Both the local police and the FBI are playing the whole thing down; the arrested man, they say, has no ties to terrorist organizations; he never took any flight lessons; he's just gone to school and to work here for years... But no one has an explanation for why this formerly law-abiding person suddenly last month started making drawings of airport runways and researching how to make chemical weapons and marking off dates in September, including Tuesday the 11th; no one knows why he suddenly became so abusive to his mother that she was prompted to call 911, leading to the discovery of the questionable papers in his possession... >And why so many hijackers? You need some to keep the passengers and flight crew at bay (or to kill them), while two others fly the plane. Two in the cockpit, at least 2 back in the plane taking care of the passengers and flight crew. That would make at least 16 on 4 planes. In addition we know that on one plane their were 2 brothers amongst the hijackers, on another 2 of the hijackers were cousins...so it would seem that perhaps that on a couple of the planes there were more than the bare minimum of hijackers needed to successfully carry out the plan, because one presumes that relatives wanted to die with their loved ones... >It still seems impossible to believe that 19 people >were able to simultaneously hijack FOUR major airliners. Not at all; it just takes incredible discipline, and long-time research, study, and planning... And remember, there were probably many more than 4 planes with terrorists on board, that luckily were grounded before they too could carry out their mission... And THAT, I feel, is the REAL terror of all this...any one person or group of people with that amount of coolness, level-headedness, and patience to devote YEARS to planning this, to getting the operatives into place into this country well before the planned event, and who apparently has access to a significant amount of funds...they wouldn't have planned just one grand event to occur on one day. They wouldn't have limited themselves to just using commercial airliners as flying bombs. And people with that level of coolness and patience to have waited this long to make their first strike have the coolness and patience to wait for the optimal time for a second strike. I believe that, contrary to some reports, it's highly unlikely that anything significant will occur this weekend; if anything does, I believe it will be relatively minor, just enough to keep the U.S. citizenry nervous The big worry is farther down the road...especially on upcoming holidays... Columbus Day, while it's a federal holiday, is not really a major holday, so it's unlikely anything would be done then; ditto Veteran's Day, although something symbolic may be attempted by the
Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 9/21/01 7:10:00 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Something like this occurred to me, too. Maybe there were no > terrorists aboard those planes. Maybe someone just added a > bunch of Arabic names to the passenger lists. We will certainly > never know. Whoever was on them was smashed to plaster dust. > The preportedly brilliant but misled perpetrators are already dead. A > perfect crime. And that begs the question of who would be willing to commit suicide for an op like that? The only alternative I can come up with is a mind controlled operative. Samantha http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....
-Caveat Lector- Something like this occurred to me, too. Maybe there were no terrorists aboard those planes. Maybe someone just added a bunch of Arabic names to the passenger lists. We will certainly never know. Whoever was on them was smashed to plaster dust. The preportedly brilliant but misled perpetrators are already dead. A perfect crime. I mean, how do they know that there were 19 hijackers? How do they know how many were aboard each plane? (Did people report this in cell phone calls to relatives?) And if terrorists didn't do it, how did whoever did do it convince 19 people to get on planes and kill themselves--let alone fly into targets that would kill thousands of innocent people? And why so many hijackers? It still seems impossible to believe that 19 people were able to simultaneously hijack FOUR major airliners. And that all the while passengers were contacting loved ones by cell phone, no one was contacting 911 or central headquarters and nothing was being done to deal with the situation. At some point there was an interview with a Florida motel clerk who reported that someone came in and paid a monthly rent for two of the hijackers who were in flight school Apparently, from what she said, this mysterious person paid with a credit card and our brave FBI were in the process of tracking that. What ever happened to that "lead"? Seems to me I also heard a report at some time (only once and never again--on NBC-TV) that from what they heard through that button that could be pressed in the cockpit, one of the original pilots was at the controls when it hit one of the towers. I believe it was when Brokaw was talking to that Christian Science Monitor reporter. Huh??? On 21 Sep 01, at 12:56, Tony Dickinson wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > > In the US there is much talk about the notion, that this attack has > > ushered in a "new breed of terrorist." That these were bright and > > educated individuals as opposed to the desperate and angry outcasts > > of yesterday. > > > > New breeds are most certainly being revealed this time around, but, at > very best, the evidence so far presented to the public suggest only > that these 'bright and educated individuals' existed and may have > posessed the skills suggested by their training. I'm sure that > Manchurian candidates and straw persons alike come in many flavours. > For example, whether they were the only 'foe' on board the aircraft, > or did themselves carrying out the acts witnessed by us all remains > unknown (at least to me). The discovery of Islamic and Arabic > artifacts, IDs and paper trails by these guys appears a little odd to > me (cocky, smart or diversive?) and our assumptive logical evaluations > of such 'evidence' needs be treated with constant scrutiny. > > As another example, the assumption that the original pilots steered > into the twin towers is now questionable in the minds of many, but how > many of us would be willing to entertain the idea that a non-piloted > remote control system could have been used to guide the hijacked > aircraft to their new trajectories ? I'm not wanting to suggest that > this is what actually happened, but posit as an explanatory option, > the technology certainly exists. > > This possibility is not inconsistent with the view that a 'new breed > of terrorist' as implied by the questioner does indeed now exist; but > my point here, is that we may in the future be 'finding' any number of > 'bright and educated individuals' on a crime scene, who by > intellectual association and leaning seem to 'fit' suspect-profiles > but MAY have little/no knowledge of their complicities. Hopefully I'm > wrong. > > Thoughts ? > > Cheers, >Tony. > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! > These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many > half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically > by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the > spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no > endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial > and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > == > == Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > == > == To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:]
[CTRL] New breeds of Trojan terrorist ?.....
-Caveat Lector- > In the US there is much talk about the notion, that this attack has > ushered in a "new breed of terrorist." That these were bright and > educated individuals as opposed to the desperate and angry outcasts > of yesterday. > New breeds are most certainly being revealed this time around, but, at very best, the evidence so far presented to the public suggest only that these 'bright and educated individuals' existed and may have posessed the skills suggested by their training. I'm sure that Manchurian candidates and straw persons alike come in many flavours. For example, whether they were the only 'foe' on board the aircraft, or did themselves carrying out the acts witnessed by us all remains unknown (at least to me). The discovery of Islamic and Arabic artifacts, IDs and paper trails by these guys appears a little odd to me (cocky, smart or diversive?) and our assumptive logical evaluations of such 'evidence' needs be treated with constant scrutiny. As another example, the assumption that the original pilots steered into the twin towers is now questionable in the minds of many, but how many of us would be willing to entertain the idea that a non-piloted remote control system could have been used to guide the hijacked aircraft to their new trajectories ? I'm not wanting to suggest that this is what actually happened, but posit as an explanatory option, the technology certainly exists. This possibility is not inconsistent with the view that a 'new breed of terrorist' as implied by the questioner does indeed now exist; but my point here, is that we may in the future be 'finding' any number of 'bright and educated individuals' on a crime scene, who by intellectual association and leaning seem to 'fit' suspect-profiles but MAY have little/no knowledge of their complicities. Hopefully I'm wrong. Thoughts ? Cheers, Tony. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
