Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Euphorian) Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 1:31am (EST-1) SHOULD THE CHURCHES BE TAXED? Absolutely not---taxation is theft, tribute paid to a conquering authority called government. There is noting wrong with paying for services rendered such as the common defense. What we have. instead, is a group of men who exploit the rest and get away with it by pretending to govern. To ask religious groups to be sacrificed to their greed would further damage Liberty... A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
In a message dated 2/24/02 9:15:45 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SHOULD THE CHURCHES BE TAXED? Of course they should be. Bill.
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- think churches should not be taxed with one exception. When they engage in political activity, they are no longer a church established for spiritual needs, Harry Anslingner once wrote and as for the Mafia, pull up one string of spagetti (hey, how is that for discrimination, Italian Spaagetti) - however, when you pull up one string of spagetti, up comes the whole plateso Anslinger also noted that so many famous Mafiaso - even Chuckie Colson - when they got out of prison, got into religion. Herein lay the secrets of the Mafia. The ones who are so generous with their gifts - easy to buy friendship and police and politicians so when should a mobster lose his tax free status? Like a Marc Rich, or this ADL who was in cahoots with Meyer Lansky and to which a guy like Larry Flynt donates so generously? Religion makes a good laundering house now, just as does our Senate and Congress for what an investment we have here - Then we have those Undertakers A Church was designed for gatherings of the people, who when one was in need, others would provide assistance..a place of refuge. Then came James Cagney, the old movies, always gunned down in front of a church while the Priest his old friend, comes to his need.Why not, the guy paid for windows, organs, etc eetc etc. So the big connection is when is a church not a church and not a place of refuge - well remember what Christ did - he kicked the money changers out of the Temple. Like Castro kicked the Mob, out of Cuba. Somehwere there is a message here? Pat Robertson is the Golden Calf? OSaba A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- On 24 Feb 2002 at 10:05, Bob Swanlund wrote: Absolutely not---taxation is theft, tribute paid to a conquering authority called government. Absolutely. Yet, as long as the rest of us get taken, everyone ought to play. Unless, of course, we all declare ourselves tax-exempt for the same purposes others do as well. This is only equal pay for equal play. The upshot of this would be to have the religiositors be brought into the mainstream and having them fight for everyone's freedoms and not just their own. AER A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
I agree, The501c3 whore houses should kick back unto thier master. Most churches at the pleasure of the State. BillK SHOULD THE CHURCHES BE TAXED?Of course they should be. Bill.
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- On 24 Feb 2002 at 11:21, Saba wrote: think churches should not be taxed with one exception. When they engage in political activity, they are no longer a church established for spiritual needs, But churches have been political activities ever since they've been in existence. One only needs to view the events of the day, whether in Afghanland or the MidEast or the Balkans or the President going to be seen in the pew, events that cause precipitation of wars and other intergroup conflicts. If this were NOT so, the militaries would not be involved. The militaries are interceding in disputes between the Talebaniaqs and others who diagree with them; the MidEast conflicts have been going on since the FIRST Crusades; the Kosovariaqs drive for a state for the Albaniaq Moslems is self-explanatory; Bill Jeff or Georgie could seek out their Masters' voices in the Rose Garden as well as they could in some edifice. The following is about getting people to move in a certain direction: Main Entry: pol.i.tics Pronunciation: 'pä-l-tiks Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction Etymology: Greek politika, from neuter plural of politikos political Date: circa 1529 1 a : the art or science of government b : the art or science concerned with guiding or influencing governmental policy c : the art or science concerned with winning and holding control over a government 2 : political actions, practices, or policies 3 a : political affairs or business; especially : competition between competing interest groups or individuals for power and leadership (as in a government) b : political life especially as a principal activity or profession c : political activities characterized by artful and often dishonest practices 4 : the political opinions or sympathies of a person 5 a : the total complex of relations between people living in society b : relations or conduct in a particular area of experience especially as seen or dealt with from a political point of view AER A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- BFI believe that religion, when it remains non-profit and non-political, should be allowed the priviledge of exemption. Remember than many of us tithe. This helps our religious organizations, and also finds its way to charities that help the needy. It is a Divine Commandment, not abrogable by the State. I am sure that the Deists probably have their religious exemptions too. If not, are they too selfish to help the needy? One wonders how much of this is good old fashioned all-American stinginess. Obviously, I do not believe that political advocacy or businesses should be tax exempt. This is common sense. Corruption should not be allowed. However, to deny tax exempt status when other non-profits have it would be unfair and gross. Bates Euphorian wrote: -Caveat Lector- From http://www.deism.com/tax_religions.htm This becomes even more relevant when even I can think of at least two religions that make contributions to religious centres in foreign countries that have little or no interest in supporting or defending the Constitution of the U.S. [and may be, in effect, contributing to its demise]. I say let the Americans get their cut first. AER }}}Begin SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT! As you read the below article keep this fact in mind. According to the tax appraiser's office for Pinellas County, Florida the dollar amount of exempt real estate held by religions in Pinellas county alone is: $583,581,970.00!!! That half a billion dollars plus could be added to the tax base and used to help the uninsured that the faith-healers can't heal, or to help clean up the environment, for education, etc., etc., etc. Instead it goes to promote superstition. SHOULD THE CHURCHES BE TAXED? by Leland W. Ruble Should organized religion be taxed? And if not, why not? For most of the population, religion exists in a peculiar, rarefied atmosphere. It is for most people (even though they may have some doubts) the only source of hope they have for continuing their existence after the body has expired. Naturally they expect restitution in heaven, a sort of reward for countless prayers; a moral life; and obedience to God. Obviously, taxation of a faith based on a biblical God, would be a desecration of this image. Religion therefore, has been able to develop, grow and prosper without the payment of taxes that are required from most other organizations that teach a certain philosophy or concept of existence. The majority do not think of religious mysticism as an ideology that is taxable. They feel, you cannot tax a church whose reverend is a representative of God. A person who has daily conversations and visions pertaining to a sometimes benevolent, sometimes revengeful Lord of all, the Almighty. Presumably because religion is more concerned with the afterlife, Heaven, Hell, and a government presided over by an assembly of angels, saints, and evangelists, and considers sin as the main cause of discord on this planet, it has been exempted from taxation. It is a privilege that has granted religion an elite status that few other organizations, activities, and the productivity of human labor is immune from. The mystical exploitation of religion has created a hierarchy of sanctimonious pedagogues who prosper in an environment free of obligation to the society from which they profit immensely. There is no such thing as a non-profit religion. If there were non-profit religions, most established religions would not exist. Why then, is religion exempt from taxation? There are those who assume that it is to prevent government influence into the activities of religion, and to prevent the same from interfering in the affairs of government. It is also thought that taxation of religion would restrict its growth, thus constricting the freedom of worship and making it difficult for religious activity to flourish. This does not make sense. If a mystical organization cannot prosper or survive because of taxation, it must not have a message or purpose worth sustaining, nor the ability to communicate a concept that appeals to the public. If it requires exemption from taxation as the only way it can exist, then it is a religion based on a superficial concept of Biblical nonsense that eventually the public will ignore. James Madison, the fourth President of the United States of America and a leading promoter and authority of the U.S. Constitution, had this to say in regard to the exemption of taxation for religious organizations: Are the U.S. duly awake to the tendency of the precedents they are establishing, in the multiplied incorporations of religious congregations with the faculty of acquiring and holding property real as well as personal...? The people of the U.S. owe their independence and their Liberty to the wisdom of descrying in the minute of 3 pence on tea, the magnitude of the evil comprised in the precedent. Let them exert the
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: Man on the Run [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens -Caveat Lector- BFI believe that religion, when it remains non-profit and non-political, should be allowed the priviledge of exemption. Remember than many of us tithe. This helps our religious organizations, and also finds its way to charities that help the needy. It is a Divine Commandment, not abrogable by the State. so you would agree wholeheartedly with the seperation of church and state then? A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- BFI think so. However, the point is that one's relationship to God is primary. The State must not interfere beyond its bounds. Yes, certainly in the pluralistic world in which we live that is the only viable option. However, I do not exalt it in to a grand absolute. Separation of church and state is a human good, in fact I even benefit from it as a religious minority, but I keep my priorities straight. Bates c. wrote: -Caveat Lector- - Original Message - From: Man on the Run [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens -Caveat Lector- BFI believe that religion, when it remains non-profit and non-political, should be allowed the priviledge of exemption. Remember than many of us tithe. This helps our religious organizations, and also finds its way to charities that help the needy. It is a Divine Commandment, not abrogable by the State. so you would agree wholeheartedly with the seperation of church and state then? A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- Should religion be taxed? Only to fund its complete dissolution. Free your mind and your ass will follow. St George NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar
-Caveat Lector- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Euphorian) Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 10:53am (EST-1) Yet, as long as the rest of us get taken, everyone ought to play. The flaw in the notion that because some are serfs all should be serfs is that it can only benefit the nobility. This distracts those who propose to tax churches from the real cause---end taxation and starve the parasites... A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar
-Caveat Lector- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Kalivas) Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 10:57am (EST-1) The 501c3 whore houses should kick back unto their master... This is an important point, all corporations serve their master---and pass the costs on to their customers. Collecting more money for the state would only grow the state. How would that serve Liberty? A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar
-Caveat Lector- True, it wouldn't serve liberty to tax the church. It might however cause donations for buildings, the Socialist World Council of Churches, TV stations, trips to the Holy Land, and other ridiculous matters to cease. -Caveat Lector- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Kalivas) Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 10:57am (EST-1) The 501c3 whore houses should kick back unto their master... This is an important point, all corporations serve their master---and pass the costs on to their customers. Collecting more money for the state would only grow the state. How would that serve Liberty? A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar
-Caveat Lector- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Man on the Run) Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 10:50pm (EST-3) I believe that religion, when it remains non-profit and non-political, should be allowed the privilege of exemption One's household is non-profit and non-political and yet subject to taxation. The privilege of exemption is revocable---I'd rather stand on one's Right to property... A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar
-Caveat Lector- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Man on the Run) Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 11:02pm (EST-3) ...The State must not interfere beyond its bounds Here one assumes that the State is an entity. As such it's a figment of one's imagination, the State is merely a group of men who have convince many of their omnipotence... A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- should the churches be taxed? Of course they should be. agreed. they should be treated as businesses, for that is what they are, and subjected to all the same taxes that your average small business is subjected to. if they are a large church, file them under a corporation.. inri np: http://chat.carleton.ca/~jparent2/ sure, we'll have fascism, but it will come disguised as americanism - huey long there ought to be limits to freedom - george w. bush if this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as i'm the dictator. - george w. bush freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it. - rudolph giulliani A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- Corruption should not be allowed. However, to deny tax exempt status when other non-profits have it would be unfair and gross. can you explain your position that the church is a non-profit organization? i'm not getting that. inri np: http://chat.carleton.ca/~jparent2/ sure, we'll have fascism, but it will come disguised as americanism - huey long there ought to be limits to freedom - george w. bush if this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as i'm the dictator. - george w. bush freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it. - rudolph giulliani A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar
-Caveat Lector- At 05:34 PM 2/24/02 , you wrote: -Caveat Lector- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Man on the Run) Date: Sun, Feb 24, 2002, 11:02pm (EST-3) ...The State must not interfere beyond its bounds Here one assumes that the State is an entity. As such it's a figment of one's imagination, the State is merely a group of men who have convince many of their omnipotence... Until that figment of your imagination kicks down your door in the middle of the night and you are staring down the barrel of their imaginary HK Automatic.. A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar
-Caveat Lector- On 24 Feb 2002 at 17:10, Bob Swanlund wrote: The flaw in the notion that because some are serfs all should be serfs is that it can only benefit the nobility. Mmmm ... the problem with this is entrusting special status to a select few who then run errands/interference for the nobility. This is like the kapos vs the kampers: the former had everything to gain by serfing their masters while the latter had everything to lose. When all are put in a field without protective barriers to segregate one from another based on some supposed hierarchy, there is a more equal treatment. Hierarchies may exist but they should not be state-mandated, especially when the herd can stampede. In the case of the churchies, the state imposes the tax laws in a different way for otherwise legitimate businesses that also charge admission fees and have stockholders and other trappings. Once the protections are removed for everyone, then there will be greater freedom of choice based upon reason and not blind emotional loyalty and success will be based on services rendered. This increases liberty when rationales and not mythe are part of the equation and the ineffective are shown for what they are: temporary, if not nonpermanent. This, of course, applies to tithes and other charitable deductions (church taxes). When such things are accountable as income and donations are no longer of any benefit to the donors, the recipients will drop like flies. Then comes the selection process based on services made available and abilities to successfully provide same. When the churchies complain and begin to demonstrate how they existed and were able to provide for their clientele adequately PRIOR to being made to pay their share, the lessons become clear for the population as to how the churchies and the government should be able to operate on the same basis. Services are not provided when there is no one to be served, nothing to be provided. Leaders then tend to be a little more choosy as to who they want to become allied with and who they want to piss off. This becomes even more fun when the Napoleons are expected to not only make these decisions but lead the battles. As both are essentially non-profits, their ultimate functions will be for gratis, based on the dedication of the few tireless souls who believe in what they are doing, and from the population bases and without enduring bureaucratic hierarchies. Thus, the people, the churches and the government all are placed on an equal footing: tax one, tax them all (everyone gets to pay in into Soc Sec, e.g.); exclude one, exclude them all. To do otherwise, would be secure too much power through pet alliances. For the government to collude with the churches would, as aeons of history has shown, put the double whammy on those who are on the receiving ends. There are other aspects of societal hierarchism that would be equally affected. I tend to try to think how all of this worked before the income tax laws were enacted. This is loose and not based (much) on anyone else's perspective. Once I flesh this out in my mind, I'll press on with the Rothbard or Hoppe and see where my errors are. Or theirs. AER A HREF=http://www.ctrl.org/;www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF=http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html;Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF=http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/;ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Rendering Unto Caesar Some Greens
-Caveat Lector- From http://www.deism.com/tax_religions.htm This becomes even more relevant when even I can think of at least two religions that make contributions to religious centres in foreign countries that have little or no interest in supporting or defending the Constitution of the U.S. [and may be, in effect, contributing to its demise]. I say let the Americans get their cut first. AER }}}Begin SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT! As you read the below article keep this fact in mind. According to the tax appraiser's office for Pinellas County, Florida the dollar amount of exempt real estate held by religions in Pinellas county alone is: $583,581,970.00!!! That half a billion dollars plus could be added to the tax base and used to help the uninsured that the faith-healers can't heal, or to help clean up the environment, for education, etc., etc., etc. Instead it goes to promote superstition. SHOULD THE CHURCHES BE TAXED? by Leland W. Ruble Should organized religion be taxed? And if not, why not? For most of the population, religion exists in a peculiar, rarefied atmosphere. It is for most people (even though they may have some doubts) the only source of hope they have for continuing their existence after the body has expired. Naturally they expect restitution in heaven, a sort of reward for countless prayers; a moral life; and obedience to God. Obviously, taxation of a faith based on a biblical God, would be a desecration of this image. Religion therefore, has been able to develop, grow and prosper without the payment of taxes that are required from most other organizations that teach a certain philosophy or concept of existence. The majority do not think of religious mysticism as an ideology that is taxable. They feel, you cannot tax a church whose reverend is a representative of God. A person who has daily conversations and visions pertaining to a sometimes benevolent, sometimes revengeful Lord of all, the Almighty. Presumably because religion is more concerned with the afterlife, Heaven, Hell, and a government presided over by an assembly of angels, saints, and evangelists, and considers sin as the main cause of discord on this planet, it has been exempted from taxation. It is a privilege that has granted religion an elite status that few other organizations, activities, and the productivity of human labor is immune from. The mystical exploitation of religion has created a hierarchy of sanctimonious pedagogues who prosper in an environment free of obligation to the society from which they profit immensely. There is no such thing as a non-profit religion. If there were non-profit religions, most established religions would not exist. Why then, is religion exempt from taxation? There are those who assume that it is to prevent government influence into the activities of religion, and to prevent the same from interfering in the affairs of government. It is also thought that taxation of religion would restrict its growth, thus constricting the freedom of worship and making it difficult for religious activity to flourish. This does not make sense. If a mystical organization cannot prosper or survive because of taxation, it must not have a message or purpose worth sustaining, nor the ability to communicate a concept that appeals to the public. If it requires exemption from taxation as the only way it can exist, then it is a religion based on a superficial concept of Biblical nonsense that eventually the public will ignore. James Madison, the fourth President of the United States of America and a leading promoter and authority of the U.S. Constitution, had this to say in regard to the exemption of taxation for religious organizations: Are the U.S. duly awake to the tendency of the precedents they are establishing, in the multiplied incorporations of religious congregations with the faculty of acquiring and holding property real as well as personal...? The people of the U.S. owe their independence and their Liberty to the wisdom of descrying in the minute of 3 pence on tea, the magnitude of the evil comprised in the precedent. Let them exert the same wisdom, in watching against every evil lurking under plausible disguises, and growing up from small beginnings. Apparently not all future legislators or bureaucrats visualized the tenacity of religion to develop into huge corporations with vast properties, investments, and influence over legislation favorable to its prosperity. The present has proven Madison correct in his assumption. The scheming and manipulation of the frenzied, right wing religious fundamentalists with their army of enthusiasts, has proven that religion untaxed, is more dangerous to Liberty than taxation of the same. Why should an institution founded on fantasy and myth, the incredible and improbable, be exonerated from taxation while existing in a society that supports the infrastructure and services that make it possible for that religion to succeed? My freedom, yours, and
[CTRL] Rendering unto Caesar
-Caveat Lector- WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War! Rendering unto Caesar -- -- 2001 WorldNetDaily.com I've been pilloried by Christians for the last week for opposing the federal seizure of a church in Indianapolis. Most of the criticism boils down to two scriptural references, which, these folks apparently believe, mean Christians should never resist evil perpetrated by government. The first reference is one found in the Gospel accounts of Matthew, Mark and Luke in which Jesus said "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's." The second reference cited by readers is Romans 13, in which the Apostle Paul advocates submission to earthly rulers. A great many Christians -- including many pastors -- wrote to me explaining that it is the duty of good citizens and churches to "render unto Caesar." I hardly know where to begin in addressing such a fundamental issue. But let me start by asking all Americans who subscribe to this principle as an absolute how our founding fathers, many of them devout Christians, justified breaking the bonds with their rulers in Great Britain? Were they not under a scriptural obligation to render unto King George? Have you read the Declaration of Independence? I strongly suggest that my dear misguided Christian friends spend a little time reading the great debates that precipitated the War for Independence -- all of which took place among men far more learned in the Scriptures than the average modern Christian. It's important to consider the circumstances and the audience behind Jesus' instructions to "render unto Caesar." The Sadducees were attempting to trap Jesus into advocating open contempt for Caesar. He recognized their wicked and hypocritical little game and answered them with a totally truthful response that astonished everyone. But think about it. There are two components to Jesus' words. We are to "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's," but we are also to "render unto God the things that are God's." Well, everything ultimately belongs to God. But, most of all, this injunction by Jesus instructs us that government laws cannot trump God's laws -- ever. If government commands you to do evil, as a Christian you must resist. There is no alternative. Citing the "render unto Caesar" line is an excuse for accountability to God -- nothing more, nothing less. Furthermore, it needs to be pointed out to my critics that in America we don't have a Caesar. Never have, never will. You see, our system of government is called a free republic and it is based on the concept of constitutional self-government. We have no "rulers" in America -- except ourselves and our God. We believe in the rule of law, not the rule of men. This is an important distinction, not a semantic one. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach us to obey evil rulers. Nowhere. Quite the contrary. In fact, the Bible has inspired more non-violent civil disobedience movements than any other religious document. The example of Jesus and the apostles was to submit to arrest, submit to being jailed, even submit to execution. But, in no way, can one derive from biblical example that we are to do evil because we are told to do so by government. I believe it is evil -- pure and simple -- for the Internal Revenue Service to force a church to serve as its unpaid tax collection agency. That is the issue in Indianapolis. Armed federal agents seized the Indianapolis Baptist Church because it refused to collect withholding taxes from employees. This is an act of conscience that demands respect -- not only for churches but for independent, privately held, tax-paying businesses as well. The IRS cannot at once pretend the income tax is voluntary and at the same time demand that employers collect it from employees before they ever see it. It is stealing. And stealing is forbidden in the Ten Commandments. Christians are not to countenance stealing, because stealing is evil. Christians are to resist evil -- even at a cost of life itself. I for one am not accountable to any Caesar, thank God. I am accountable to my Creator. My rights and responsibilities as a free man descend not from government, but from God Almighty. I would love to ask my Christian critics how they feel about those heroes who risked death in Nazi Germany because they refused to render Jews unto Hitler? The greatest acts of moral courage in the last 2,000 years have been the countless examples of individuals standing up to tyrants against all odds. Sadly, it seems many modern American Christians are content to sit on their duffs and condone evil because of their own scriptural illiteracy and moral blindness. -- -- Joseph Farah is editor and chief executive officer of WorldNetDaily.com and writes a daily
